A Message To Trump From The Guy Who Caught bin Laden

[Agent Zero]

Oh snap!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/revoke-my-security-clearance-too-mr-president/2018/08/16/8b149b02-a178-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.576002bdf62d

Revoke my security clearance, too, Mr. President









https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/qHfrmDbljAc67Ao6eWFQDotFYP8=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/KO7HKLEYUII6FAKLAY3CHWAKMA.jpg
Navy Adm. William McRaven, right, and U.S. Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis in 2013. (Gary Cameron/Reuters)
By William H. McRaven



August 16 at 2:44 PM
William H. McRaven, a retired Navy admiral, was commander of the U.S. Joint Special Operations Command from 2011 to 2014. He oversaw the 2011 Navy SEAL raid in Pakistan that killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

Dear Mr. President:
Former CIA director John Brennan, whose security clearance you revoked (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-revokes-security-clearance-of-former-cia-director-john-brennan/2018/08/15/043b6fc4-a0bb-11e8-8e87-c869fe70a721_story.html?utm_term=.ba5fe3a75c05)on Wednesday, is one of the finest public servants I have ever known. Few Americans have done more to protect this country than John. He is a man of unparalleled integrity, whose honesty and character have never been in question, except by those who don’t know him.
Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.
Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs.
A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself.

0:41



‘Greatest threat to democracy’: Commander of bin Laden raid criticizes Trump in speech





Retired Navy admiral William H. McRaven called President Trump’s denunciation of the media a threat to democracy in a speech at UT-Austin. (The University of Texas at Austin)


Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.
If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be.

[hanger4]

Oh snap!https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/revoke-my-security-clearance-too-mr-president/2018/08/16/8b149b02-a178-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.576002bdf62dRevoke my security clearance, too, Mr. Presidenthttps://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/qHfrmDbljAc67Ao6eWFQDotFYP8=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/KO7HKLEYUII6FAKLAY3CHWAKMA.jpgNavy Adm. William McRaven, right, and U.S. Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis in 2013. (Gary Cameron/Reuters)By William H. McRavenAugust 16 at 2:44 PMWilliam H. McRaven, a retired Navy admiral, was commander of the U.S. Joint Special Operations Command from 2011 to 2014. He oversaw the 2011 Navy SEAL raid in Pakistan that killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.Dear Mr. President:Former CIA director John Brennan, whose security clearance you revoked (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-revokes-security-clearance-of-former-cia-director-john-brennan/2018/08/15/043b6fc4-a0bb-11e8-8e87-c869fe70a721_story.html?utm_term=.ba5fe3a75c05)on Wednesday, is one of the finest public servants I have ever known. Few Americans have done more to protect this country than John. He is a man of unparalleled integrity, whose honesty and character have never been in question, except by those who don’t know him.Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs.A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself. 0:41‘Greatest threat to democracy’: Commander of bin Laden raid criticizes Trump in speechRetired Navy admiral William H. McRaven called President Trump’s denunciation of the media a threat to democracy in a speech at UT-Austin. (The University of Texas at Austin)Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be.*is one of the finest public servants I have ever known* .............. Seriously McRaven ?? the man that spied on Senate staffers is one of the finest public servants you know, you really need to get out more. Sad

[Brat]

What a load.

[Tahuyaman]

Revoke my security clearance, too, Mr. President
‘Greatest threat to democracy’: Commander of bin Laden


My response would be..... Consider it done.

[Mr.Soxes]

Any more former officers of the military wanting to speak up!MAGA:flag:

[Ethereal]

McRaven is a glorified death squad chieftain who oversaw a systematic campaign of terrorism against Afghan civilians.

[Mr.Soxes]

What a load.
They never even released any pictures to substantiate there claim!:wink:

[Ethereal]

The truth about McRaven:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN4Sn5u_pK0

[Admiral Ackbar]

Oh snap!
Blah Blah Blah Do you really that much about a Commie getting his clearance revoked? Move on

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/revoke-my-security-clearance-too-mr-president/2018/08/16/8b149b02-a178-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.576002bdf62d

Revoke my security clearance, too, Mr. President











https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/qHfrmDbljAc67Ao6eWFQDotFYP8=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/KO7HKLEYUII6FAKLAY3CHWAKMA.jpg
Navy Adm. William McRaven, right, and U.S. Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis in 2013. (Gary Cameron/Reuters)
By William H. McRaven



August 16 at 2:44 PM
William H. McRaven, a retired Navy admiral, was commander of the U.S. Joint Special Operations Command from 2011 to 2014. He oversaw the 2011 Navy SEAL raid in Pakistan that killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

Dear Mr. President:
Former CIA director John Brennan, whose security clearance you revoked (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-revokes-security-clearance-of-former-cia-director-john-brennan/2018/08/15/043b6fc4-a0bb-11e8-8e87-c869fe70a721_story.html?utm_term=.ba5fe3a75c05)on Wednesday, is one of the finest public servants I have ever known. Few Americans have done more to protect this country than John. He is a man of unparalleled integrity, whose honesty and character have never been in question, except by those who don’t know him.
Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.
Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs.
A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself.

0:41



‘Greatest threat to democracy’: Commander of bin Laden raid criticizes Trump in speech





Retired Navy admiral William H. McRaven called President Trump’s denunciation of the media a threat to democracy in a speech at UT-Austin. (The University of Texas at Austin)


Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.
If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be.

[MisterVeritis]

Oh snap!

Wait! We caught Bin Laden?

[nathanbforrest45]

Wait! We caught Bin Laden?

He's now working at Walmart in Albuquerque New Mexico in the Ladies Under Garment Department

[Don]

He's now working at Walmart in Albuquerque New Mexico in the Ladies Under Garment Department

http://b2.ifrm.com/172/194/0/a267096/avatar-267096.jpg

[Brat]

Oh dear, that was uncalled-for. :jawdrop:

[Tahuyaman]

Originally Posted by Agent Zero.

Revoke my security clearance, too, Mr. President
‘Greatest threat to democracy’: Commander of bin Laden








My response would be..... Consider it done.

Check this out. Agent Zero reported my comnent as a violation.

[Peter1469]

McRaven didn't capture anyone. The shooters on the ground did.

[Tahuyaman]

McRaven didn't capture anyone. The shooters on the ground did.
Some other clown here recently claimed that the “Obama administration” killed Bin Laden.

[Safety]

Oh snap!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/revoke-my-security-clearance-too-mr-president/2018/08/16/8b149b02-a178-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.576002bdf62d

Revoke my security clearance, too, Mr. President









https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/qHfrmDbljAc67Ao6eWFQDotFYP8=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/KO7HKLEYUII6FAKLAY3CHWAKMA.jpg
Navy Adm. William McRaven, right, and U.S. Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis in 2013. (Gary Cameron/Reuters)
By William H. McRaven



August 16 at 2:44 PM
William H. McRaven, a retired Navy admiral, was commander of the U.S. Joint Special Operations Command from 2011 to 2014. He oversaw the 2011 Navy SEAL raid in Pakistan that killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

Dear Mr. President:
Former CIA director John Brennan, whose security clearance you revoked (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-revokes-security-clearance-of-former-cia-director-john-brennan/2018/08/15/043b6fc4-a0bb-11e8-8e87-c869fe70a721_story.html?utm_term=.ba5fe3a75c05)on Wednesday, is one of the finest public servants I have ever known. Few Americans have done more to protect this country than John. He is a man of unparalleled integrity, whose honesty and character have never been in question, except by those who don’t know him.
Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.
Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs.
A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself.

0:41



‘Greatest threat to democracy’: Commander of bin Laden raid criticizes Trump in speech





Retired Navy admiral William H. McRaven called President Trump’s denunciation of the media a threat to democracy in a speech at UT-Austin. (The University of Texas at Austin)


Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.
If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be.

This is a true hero, someone that is tangible and real with the history to quantify his achievements. Anyone here can attempt to tear him down, but that will be a wasted effort because someone posting on an anonymous message board has the credibility of Alex Jones saying he’s smarter than a fifth grader.

[Safety]

I’ll leave the partisan hacks to attempt to split hairs about who captured whom or which administration was in place when Bin Laden was killed. Please continue to show your partisan bullshit, it is amusing to watch.

Some things are just too obvious to point out.

[Tahuyaman]

This is a true hero, someone that is tangible and real with the history to quantify his achievements. Anyone here can attempt to tear him down, but that will be a wasted effort because someone posting on an anonymous message board has the credibility of Alex Jones saying he’s smarter than a fifth grader.


Was this man on the ground participating in the raid which killed Bin Laden?

[Safety]

Was this man on the ground participating in the raid which killed Bin Laden?

Is your question so fucking irrelevant that kittens die? Go bite someone else’s ankles.

[Tahuyaman]

I’ll leave the partisan hacks to attempt to split hairs about who captured whom or which administration was in place when Bin Laden was killed. Please continue to show your partisan bull$#@!, it is amusing to watch.

Some things are just too obvious to point out.

So is this an accusation that the creation of this thread is an example of hackish partisanship?

[Tahuyaman]

Is your question so $#@!ing irrelevant that kittens die? Go bite someone else’s ankles.
I’m not sure why you objected to my question. I can guess, but that wouldn’t be fair. I’d rather see you explain yourself.

[Tahuyaman]

McRaven didn't capture anyone. The shooters on the ground did.
Obviously someone here really takes offense to that position.


Not me.

[Sergeant Gleed]

This is a true hero, someone that is tangible and real with the history to quantify his achievements. Anyone here can attempt to tear him down, but that will be a wasted effort because someone posting on an anonymous message board has the credibility of Alex Jones saying he’s smarter than a fifth grader.


And then he flushes it all away with stupid blind partisanship, and for what?

For a traitor who couldn't keep his mouth shut and could no longer be trusted to have access to the nation's privileged secrets.

I'd say McRaven chose the wrong Hillary to die on, and what's he going to do when the former Secretary of State's clearances are revoked?

[Peter1469]

This is a true hero, someone that is tangible and real with the history to quantify his achievements. Anyone here can attempt to tear him down, but that will be a wasted effort because someone posting on an anonymous message board has the credibility of Alex Jones saying he’s smarter than a fifth grader.
The guy is an American hero. He just didn't catch bin Laden. I am sure he killed more than a fair share of America's enemy when he was an operator.

[Peter1469]

Just heard this story on an ABC radio affiliate: they said McRaven was the man who masterminded the operation that got bin Laden. That is an accurate representation of his role.

[Cannons Front]

The Admiral has the right to his opinion, but that does not mean it is right or wrong it is just an opinion. From what I know about him he was a great officer, he served in Seal team 6 under Marcinko when they just stood up, I met him in 2002 at SOCCENT, I think he had just left Command of Seal Team 3 at the time.
Like I said he is a good guy, but that does not make his opinion right all the time. Hero is a big word and most do not like it used on them, but I would say it fits him.

[Hoosier8]

My my, the left found another Hillary supporter like the guy that ‘changed his mind’ that turned out to be a Warren supporter and gun control fanatic.

[Tahuyaman]

Just heard this story on an ABC radio affiliate: they said McRaven was the man who masterminded the operation that got bin Laden. That is an accurate representation of his role.

Most operations of this nature aren't conducted by those who "masterminded" them. I'm not sure why Safety went sideways on this one.

[Hoosier8]

Kris Paronto

My principles are greater than clearances too John, especially when you and the @CIA
(https://mobile.twitter.com/CIA) kool-aid drinkers punished us for not going along with the Benghazi cover-up story in order to protect you, @HillaryClinton
(https://mobile.twitter.com/HillaryClinton) ‘s & @BarackObama
(https://mobile.twitter.com/BarackObama) ‘s failures. You put your politics before us.

[Mr.Soxes]

The guy is an American hero. He just didn't catch bin Laden. I am sure he killed more than a fair share of America's enemy when he was an operator.

Officers selected for WAR college are total cycos and deserve any amount of disdain they receive!:afro:

[Peter1469]

The Admiral has the right to his opinion, but that does not mean it is right or wrong it is just an opinion. From what I know about him he was a great officer, he served in Seal team 6 under Marcinko when they just stood up, I met him in 2002 at SOCCENT, I think he had just left Command of Seal Team 3 at the time.
Like I said he is a good guy, but that does not make his opinion right all the time. Hero is a big word and most do not like it used on them, but I would say it fits him.
I certainly agree with this.

[Peter1469]

Most operations of this nature aren't conducted by those who "masterminded" them. I'm not sure why Safety went sideways on this one.
Right. And the OP. McCrystal went on commando raids as a general, but he stayed in the rear and observed.

[Peter1469]

Officers selected for WAR college are total cycos and deserve any amount of disdain they receive!:afro:

Really? They tend to be the political officers who found the path to move up; or if we are at war, they are the hard core officers like Patton or McRaven.

[Mr.Soxes]

Really? They tend to be the political officers who found the path to move up; or if we are at war, they are the hard core officers like Patton or McRaven.

McRaven has no room to be compared to a great warrior like PATTON!https://petterssonorg.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/lovest.jpg

[Peter1469]

McRaven has no room to be compared to a great warrior like PATTON!https://petterssonorg.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/lovest.jpg

They were both equally epic- in different ways. Patton was a strategist who led divisions, corps, and armies. McRaven was a bad-ass spec op operator and commander. I guarantee you McRaven personally killed more people than Patton. Patton used his troops to kill massive numbers of enemy, so he gets kudos for that too.

[Mr.Soxes]

They were both equally epic- in different ways. Patton was a strategist who led divisions, corps, and armies. McRaven was a bad-ass spec op operator and commander. I guarantee you McRaven personally killed more people than Patton. Patton used his troops to kill massive numbers of enemy, so he gets kudos for that too.
From afar with a drone!:angel13:

[Peter1469]

From afar with a drone!:angel13:

Drones were not armed when McRaven was an operator.

[Tahuyaman]

Right. And the OP. McCrystal went on commando raids as a general, but he stayed in the rear and observed.
How do you go on a raid, but stay in the rear? I’ve never heard of such a thing.

[Mr.Soxes]

Drones were not armed when McRaven was an operator.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._McRaven
Sounds like a whiny little bitch to me!:holdbreath:

[Peter1469]

How do you go on a raid, but stay in the rear? I’ve never heard of such a thing.

Last man in the stack.

[Trish]

I feel like we've entered the twilight zone. This animosity towards many of our top intel officers is puzzling to me. Is the general position from the Trump camp that no level of service is worthy of respect?

[Mr.Soxes]

How do you go on a raid, but stay in the rear? I’ve never heard of such a thing.

How do you not AA in the Army according to peter!:afro:

[Mr.Soxes]

I feel like we've entered the twilight zone. This animosity towards many of our top intel officers is puzzling to me. Is the general position from the Trump camp that no level of service is worthy of respect?

The top Intel and Military are all hacks and a product of the education system owned by a certain group!:flames:

[Peter1469]

He was an operator in Seal Team 2 as well as his stint in 6. I should re-read Seal Team 6 by Marcinko and see if he mentions McRaven. But I imagine a year plus in 6 got him a lot of kills on top of whatever he got in team 2. His 6 tour would have been around the time they found the Islamists who pulled off the Marine Corps barracks bombing in Lebanon- they left heads in laps and slipped away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._McRaven
Sounds like a whiny little bitch to me!:holdbreath:

[Peter1469]

I feel like we've entered the twilight zone. This animosity towards many of our top intel officers is puzzling to me. Is the general position from the Trump camp that no level of service is worthy of respect?

Why should we respect a director of the CIA who voted for a communist, lied to congress, and disclosed top secret information? Just because?

BTW, welcome back. Miss you.

[Mr.Soxes]

Why should we respect a director of the CIA who voted for a communist, lied to congress, and disclosed top secret information? Just because?

BTW, welcome back. Miss you.

Why are you so stuck on Mc Cracken who supports that fool!:nono:

[Peter1469]

How do you not AA in the Army according to peter!:afro:
What does that mean??

[Trish]

Why should we respect a director of the CIA who voted for a communist, lied to congress, and disclosed top secret information? Just because?

BTW, welcome back. Miss you.
My observation is that it's more than just one CIA Director that is being targeted. It appears that there isn't anyone who works for the intel community that the right has any respect for.

Why do you think that is...........

Missed you guys too!

[Peter1469]

Why are you so stuck on Mc Cracken who supports that fool!:nono:

I respect McRaven. I disagree with McRaven on this point.

[Peter1469]

My observation is that it's more than just one CIA Director that is being targeted. It appears that there isn't anyone who works for the intel community that the right has any respect for.

Why do you think that is...........

Missed you guys too!

I can only speak for myself, and I am talking about the Brennan-McRaven thing.

[Mr.Soxes]

He was an operator in Seal Team 2 as well as his stint in 6. I should re-read Seal Team 6 by Marcinko and see if he mentions McRaven. But I imagine a year plus in 6 got him a lot of kills on top of whatever he got in team 2. His 6 tour would have been around the time they found the Islamists who pulled off the Marine Corps barracks bombing in Lebanon- they left heads in laps and slipped away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._McRaven
Sounds like a whiny little $#@! to me!:holdbreath:[/QUOTE]

The guy was a Druze that done that and no reprisals were made but nice try any way!MAGA:flag:

[Mr.Soxes]

I feel like we've entered the twilight zone. This animosity towards many of our top intel officers is puzzling to me. Is the general position from the Trump camp that no level of service is worthy of respect?

They are doing it to themselves with very little help from TRUMP!MAGA:flag:

[Trish]

I can only speak for myself, and I am talking about the Brennan-McRaven thing.

The outrage is about the process not being followed not necessarily about the act itself. We are getting caught in the weeds and missing the big picture. There are procedures in place to ensure power isn't misused.

[Mr.Soxes]

The outrage is about the process not being followed not necessarily about the act itself. We are getting caught in the weeds and missing the big picture. There are procedures in place to ensure power isn't misused.
You mean the RUSSIANS that nothing has been proved in over 2 years?MAGA:flag:

[Peter1469]

The guy was a Druze that done that and no reprisals were made but nice try any way!MAGA:flag:[/QUOTE]
Druze are Shia and many are Islamists. It would be safe to say that the ones who blew up the Marines were not the peace loving Shia. They were tracked down in the Philippines and killed. And left with their heads in their laps.

[Trish]

You mean the RUSSIANS that nothing has been proved in over 2 years?MAGA:flag:

No, I said nothing about the Russians but nice try. I'm speaking about a balance of power and the importance of procedures to ensure there is no misuse of that power. Please keep in mind, any precedence set by this President and his Administration will allow future Presidents and Administrations the same courtesy.

[Peter1469]

The outrage is about the process not being followed not necessarily about the act itself. We are getting caught in the weeds and missing the big picture. There are procedures in place to ensure power isn't misused.

I don't know that there are procedures that are followed. Allowing ex-intel guys to keep their clearances is against procedures- when you leave federal service you have no need for a clearance. But it is tradition.

[Trish]

I don't know that there are procedures. Allowing ex-intel guys to keep their clearances are against procedures- when you leave federal service you have no need for a clearance. But it is tradition.

There are procedures for revoking security clearances. This was one of the reasons why the DNI and CIA were surprised by the announcement from Sarah Sanders.

Traditions followed by Administrations are precedence setting and therefor establish the procedure. The procedure is based on how those security clearances were managed by past Administrations.

If the President wanted to change that procedure then it should have been done prior to the announcement. This is why it has caused such a stir. He shows no respect for process and that makes people nervous.

[Peter1469]

There are procedures for revoking security clearances. This was one of the reasons why the DNI and CIA were surprised by the announcement from Sarah Sanders.

Traditions followed by Administrations are precedence setting and therefor establish the procedure. The procedure is based on how those security clearances were managed by past Administrations.

If the President wanted to change that procedure then it should have been done prior to the announcement. This is why it has caused such a stir. He shows no respect for process and that makes people nervous.

As I said, the actual procedures say you lose your clearance when you leave your job. But by tradition we have let people keep them.

When I left one agency for another I even had to get a new clearance. They didn't accept the old one.

[Trish]

As I said, the actual procedures say you lose your clearance when you leave your job. But by tradition we have let people keep them.

When I left one agency for another I even had to get a new clearance. They didn't accept the old one.
yeah - I still have to go through it every 5 years. hahahahahaha

[Peter1469]

yeah - I still have to go through it every 5 years. hahahahahaha

You must have a TS-SCI - I have a S. I only get tagged every 10 years.

[Beevee]

Perhaps he should revoke his own security clearance. Then Russia wouldn't know more about America than America knows about America.

[Peter1469]

Perhaps he should revoke his own security clearance. Then Russia wouldn't know more about America than America knows about America.

lol

[Tahuyaman]

Liberal goof balls can be funny.

[Sergeant Gleed]

The guy is an American hero. He just didn't catch bin Laden. I am sure he killed more than a fair share of America's enemy when he was an operator.


You're talking about the guy that stayed back at the office while ordering men out to take the risks and the bullets?

How was McRaven different in that regard from the Kowardly Kraven Kenyan who claimed later "I killed bin Laden", but who only watched the events on TV...after having been forced to act on information held for weeks regarding Obama sin Laden's spider-hole?

[Sergeant Gleed]

The Admiral has the right to his opinion, but that does not mean it is right or wrong it is just an opinion. From what I know about him he was a great officer, he served in Seal team 6 under Marcinko when they just stood up, I met him in 2002 at SOCCENT, I think he had just left Command of Seal Team 3 at the time.
Like I said he is a good guy, but that does not make his opinion right all the time. Hero is a big word and most do not like it used on them, but I would say it fits him.

Not any more he's not.

Now he's taking the sides of the Nation's enemy's against that of the President.

Makes him a fool at the least, and a colluding bad guy at the worst.

[Sergeant Gleed]

I feel like we've entered the twilight zone. This animosity towards many of our top intel officers is puzzling to me. Is the general position from the Trump camp that no level of service is worthy of respect?


They're suck-ups figuring to curry favor with the next Rodent president. They plan on waiting until 2040 to get that new job.

[Sergeant Gleed]

The outrage is about the process not being followed not necessarily about the act itself. We are getting caught in the weeds and missing the big picture. There are procedures in place to ensure power isn't misused.

What procedures?

A security clearance is a privilege, not a right, and that privilege is granted and withdrawn at the behest of the Executive Branch.

How can the power to terminate a security clearance for a private citizen who is no longer in the employ of the federal government be a misuse of power?

No former employee should have an active clearance.

Remember Sandy Burglar and the benefits the nation extracted from his post-employment use of his top-level security clearance?

[Sergeant Gleed]

No, I said nothing about the Russians but nice try. I'm speaking about a balance of power and the importance of procedures to ensure there is no misuse of that power. Please keep in mind, any precedence set by this President and his Administration will allow future Presidents and Administrations the same courtesy.


You mean future presidents will be able to revoke the security clearances of personnel no longer affiliated with a government agency?

That's so terrible, limiting the access to classified material only to those persons with a demonstrable "need to know".

I hope it happens often.

[Sergeant Gleed]

There are procedures for revoking security clearances. This was one of the reasons why the DNI and CIA were surprised by the announcement from Sarah Sanders.

Traditions followed by Administrations are precedence setting and therefor establish the procedure. The procedure is based on how those security clearances were managed by past Administrations.

If the President wanted to change that procedure then it should have been done prior to the announcement. This is why it has caused such a stir. He shows no respect for process and that makes people nervous.


Traditions are nice.

The Rodent tradition is that when the US is attacked by muslim terrorists and murder thousands of Americans, a stooge of the former administration can go into the National Archives, stuff classified documents into his underwear and walk out the door with them, to be destroyed at his leisure, thereby denying the investigating committee and the American people evidence of Clinton's guilt in the crime.

THAT is the Rodent tradition you're talking about, isn't it?

Well, I am talking about it, and that's all that matters, getting you on the right path.

The LAW is what needs to be obeyed.

And the LAW allows the president to pull security clearances.

Oh, darn.


This ain't England. The US has very little Common Law.

[Cletus]

I feel like we've entered the twilight zone. This animosity towards many of our top intel officers is puzzling to me. Is the general position from the Trump camp that no level of service is worthy of respect?

You are only as good as you are today. There is an old saying that is very true... "One Oh Shit wipes out a hundred attaboys". You can respect what someone has done in the past, but that can't excuse any screwups he makes today. A great example is a Ranger named Stebbins who was portrayed by Ewan McGregor in the film "Blackhawk Down". In the film, his name was changed to Grimes and he was depicted as having performed admirably in Mogadishu. Well, what he did there may have been worthy of respect (He was awarded the Silver Star for his actions), but in 2000, Stebbins was found guilty at Court Martial of the assault and rape of a girl under the age of 12. He is currently serving a 30 year prison sentence.

Brennan's recent actions are worthy only of contempt and it would be wrong to let any meritorious service he may have previously performed to let him get a pass on it.

[Cletus]

The outrage is about the process not being followed not necessarily about the act itself. We are getting caught in the weeds and missing the big picture. There are procedures in place to ensure power isn't misused.

What is really offending people is that this President is not afraid to exercise the constitutional powers of his office. What he did was within his authority and in reality, it should be standard practice. When someone leaves government service, he no longer requires access to classified information, so there is no valid reason for him to maintain a clearance. If the government feels the need to consult him, they can reinstate his clearance and limit his access to information relevant to the specific issue about which he is being consulted. The President is ultimate authority in this. He could yank a clearance today and issue an interim clearance tomorrow if he felt it was necessary.

[Cletus]

As I said, the actual procedures say you lose your clearance when you leave your job. But by tradition we have let people keep them.

When I left one agency for another I even had to get a new clearance. They didn't accept the old one.

This is true. At one point I had an active DoD Top Secret clearance and still had to sit on my hands and wait to get cleared by State.

[Beevee]

You are only as good as you are today. There is an old saying that is very true... "One Oh $#@! wipes out a hundred attaboys". You can respect what someone has done in the past, but that can't excuse any screwups he makes today. A great example is a Ranger named Stebbins who was portrayed by Ewan McGregor in the film "Blackhawk Down". In the film, his name was changed to Grimes and he was depicted as having performed admirably in Mogadishu. Well, what he did there may have been worthy of respect (He was awarded the Silver Star for his actions), but in 2000, Stebbins was found guilty at Court Martial of the assault and rape of a girl under the age of 12. He is currently serving a 30 year prison sentence.

Brennan's recent actions are worthy only of contempt and it would be wrong to let any meritorious service he may have previously performed to let him get a pass on it.

Quite right.
Fuck the Constitution when it gets in the way.

[hanger4]

Quite right.Fuck the Constitution when it gets in the way.What are you talking about ??

[Peter1469]

You're talking about the guy that stayed back at the office while ordering men out to take the risks and the bullets?

How was McRaven different in that regard from the Kowardly Kraven Kenyan who claimed later "I killed bin Laden", but who only watched the events on TV...after having been forced to act on information held for weeks regarding Obama sin Laden's spider-hole?
I think you came into the discussion late. Already covered your issue.

[Beevee]

What are you talking about ??

Nothing that you would show an interest in.

[Peter1469]

Quite right.
Fuck the Constitution when it gets in the way.
A vapid remark that does not address the quoted statement.

[hanger4]

Nothing that you would show an interest in.Sort of what I thought, you're clueless. What has the Constitution to do with this OP ??

[Trish]

Dude or dudette - I'm quite capable of understanding your point without the heavy sarcasm.

We can have a discussion and exchange points of view from a point of mutual respect or not. I try to disagree respectfully. That's my communication preference.

[Trish]

What is really offending people is that this President is not afraid to exercise the constitutional powers of his office. What he did was within his authority and in reality, it should be standard practice. When someone leaves government service, he no longer requires access to classified information, so there is no valid reason for him to maintain a clearance. If the government feels the need to consult him, they can reinstate his clearance and limit his access to information relevant to the specific issue about which he is being consulted. The President is ultimate authority in this. He could yank a clearance today and issue an interim clearance tomorrow if he felt it was necessary.

Yes, you are right on several points BUT because he refuses to follow norms or communicate outside of twitter it leaves many feeling uncertain and confused.

I disagree that there is no reason someone needs to maintain their clearance. It depends on what role that person played.

In addition, this Administration doesn't have a clear understanding or respect for security clearances as so many serving in their Administration could not obtain a clearance. Now you're asking me to believe that it's a priority now? Come on Cletus. (Trish shaking her head)

[Beevee]

Sort of what I thought, you're clueless. What has the Constitution to do with this OP ??

What did the guy who caught bin Laden say to the president?
Why not start from there?

[Peter1469]

What did the guy who caught bin Laden say to the president?
Why not start from there?

Cite to the constitutional right to a security clearance.

That is a rhetorical question. Don't bother trying to bullshit this one. :cool2:

[hanger4]

What did the guy who caught bin Laden say to the president?Why not start from there?Why don't you start by answering the question, What has the OP got to do with the Constitution ?? Simple question.

[donttread]

The guy who caught OBL doesn't even know it because he found bones in a cave. The burial at sea with no DNA is very telling about the dog and pony show.

[Admiral Ackbar]

Wait! We caught Bin Laden?


I always confuse Osama with Obama too! Hard to keep all these Muslim extremists straight

[Peter1469]

The guy who caught OBL doesn't even know it because he found bones in a cave. The burial at sea with no DNA is very telling about the dog and pony show.

lol

Stupid statement - dismissed.

[Orion Rules]

The guy who caught OBL doesn't even know it because he found bones in a cave. The burial at sea with no DNA is very telling about the dog and pony show.

They are all dog and pony shows. Some are quite illustrating of what America has become, the land of capitalists, who can capitalize upon just about anything these days. So, how many, what are the real actual numbers?

https://www.thedodo.com/in-the-wild/baby-horse-dies-after-wyoming-roundup


Posted by MisterVeritis:
Wait! We caught Bin Laden?


Admiral Ackbar: I always confuse Osama with Obama too! Hard to keep all these Muslim extremists straight

It's Muslim extremists, it's the state of America being blind to wild horse roundups, the state of some dog and cat shelters, and the line goes straight.

[MisterVeritis]

Quite right.
Fuck the Constitution when it gets in the way.
What provision in the Constitution do you believe is being "fucked"?

Be specific.

[Brat]

What our President is doing is a matter of law. He is surrounded by people (hired by previous administrations) that hate his guts, and will stop at nothing to get rid of him. Revoking security clearances is only the first step to charging and imprisoning traitors. And the MSM can go suck an egg.

[MisterVeritis]

Yes, you are right on several points BUT because he refuses to follow norms or communicate outside of twitter it leaves many feeling uncertain and confused.
Who refuses to communicate outside of Twitter?
What norms?

[Tahuyaman]

So, Trump only communicates through Twitter? Where did that loopy idea come from?

[The Xl]

You can feel the over inflated sense of self importance from him just by merely reading those words.

[Cletus]

Quite right.
Fuck the Constitution when it gets in the way.

Do you have idea what you are talking about?

[Mini Me]

He's now working at Walmart in Albuquerque New Mexico in the Ladies Under Garment Department

The PERVERT! I heard hes running a car wash there, or a Mexican restaurant!

[Cletus]

Yes, you are right on several points BUT because he refuses to follow norms or communicate outside of twitter it leaves many feeling uncertain and confused.

That is on them. If they understand the authority, duties and responsibilities of the President's office, it isn't even a little confusing. I don't think they are confused as much as they see it as a loss of prestige and power. They are more pissed off than they are confused.


I disagree that there is no reason someone needs to maintain their clearance. It depends on what role that person played.

Okay. Expand on that.


In addition, this Administration doesn't have a clear understanding or respect for security clearances as so many serving in their Administration could not obtain a clearance. Now you're asking me to believe that it's a priority now? Come on Cletus. (Trish shaking her head)

I disagree with that. If that were true, the people who were denied would have been granted clearances. If the President or someone in the administration nominates a person for a position he thinks he would be good for the job, he probably isn't thinking all that much about clearances. He knows there is a process and the person being nominated has to agree to be vetted. That is the process. Everyone knows going in they will have a BI conducted on them once the nomination or hiring is done.

[donttread]

lol

Stupid statement - dismissed.We it'll never be admitted in my lifetime but someday the suckers who bought it will be laughed at. Tell me isn't burial at sea an honor in our culture?

[Peter1469]

We it'll never be admitted in my lifetime but someday the suckers who bought it will be laughed at. Tell me isn't burial at sea an honor in our culture?

The point is that you reject reality.

[countryboy]

Quite right.
$#@! the Constitution when it gets in the way.
Where exactly does the constitution prevent the president from revoking security clearances". Please cite.

[MisterVeritis]

Where exactly does the constitution prevent the president from revoking security clearances". Please cite.
I think Beevee, having once again made an utter fool of himself, has retreated.

[donttread]

The point is that you reject reality.

Very different from Hussein's reality. Why? Anyway, as I said I'll never be vindicated as the truth won't come out in my lifetime. But I think the guy died in some obscure place of kidney disease a few years earlier and once we confirmed that the dog and pony show ( including the "kill him, don't kill him, depends on your mood" orders) began.
But I am in a vast minority so poke fun as you wish.

[MisterVeritis]

Very different from Hussein's reality. Why? Anyway, as I said I'll never be vindicated as the truth won't come out in my lifetime. But I think the guy died in some obscure place of kidney disease a few years earlier and once we confirmed that the dog and pony show ( including the "kill him, don't kill him, depends on your mood" orders) began.
But I am in a vast minority so poke fun as you wish.
I am part of your vast minority. I do not believe we killed Bin Laden.

[donttread]

I am part of your vast minority. I do not believe we killed Bin Laden.

Seriously? You?

[MisterVeritis]

I do not believe we killed Bin Laden.

Seriously? You?
I did not believe the story from the very first. I won't tell you what I believe did happen.

[Tahuyaman]

I am part of your vast minority. I do not believe we killed Bin Laden.

I think it's quite obvious that Bin Laden is no longer among the living.

[MisterVeritis]

I think it's quite obvious that Bin Laden is no longer among the living.
It is not obvious at all.

[Tahuyaman]

It is not obvious at all.

Why would you think Bin Laden is still alive?

[MisterVeritis]

Why would you think Bin Laden is still alive?
A better question is why would I think Bin Laden is dead?

[Tahuyaman]

A better question is why would I think Bin Laden is dead?

When was the last time anyone heard anything from him?


Now, tell what makes you think he's still alive? Other than some obscure conspriacy theory, is there any evidence which supports your view?

[MisterVeritis]

When was the last time anyone heard anything from him?
Perhaps right after we captured him.

Now, tell what makes you think he's still alive? Other than some obscure conspiracy theory, is there any evidence which supports your view?
The evidence for life is a lack of tangible evidence that we killed Bin Laden. All we have is carefully crafted legend.

[Tahuyaman]

The only evidence which supports the notion that Bin Laden is alive is some obscure conspiracy theory.

[MisterVeritis]

The only evidence which supports the notion that Bin Laden is alive is some obscure conspiracy theory.
If Bin Laden is dead where is the evidence? Do we have any?

[Tahuyaman]

If Bin Laden is dead where is the evidence? Do we have any?

Other than the documented and recorded raid which resulted in his death?

You refuse to provide any evidence to support your claim that he is still alive. Just admit that you are a conspiracy theorist.

[MisterVeritis]

Other than the documented and recorded raid which resulted in his death?

You refuse to provide any evidence to support your claim that he is still alive. Just admit that you are a conspiracy theorist.
We know a raid occurred. That is all we know.

[Tahuyaman]

We know a raid occurred. That is all we know.
C'mon. Just admit that your only evidence that Bin Laden is still alive is a conspiracy theory.

[Peter1469]

al Qeada released a statement about bin Laden's death. They are evil troglodytes, but they always have been upfront and honest about their goals and actions.

I see no reason to disbelieve them.

[Cletus]

I think what MV is suggesting is that instead of killing him, the team took him alive and he is currently being held in a black site somewhere.

It is actually not inconceivable. No photos of the body. No physical evidence. I don't think it is likely, but I also don't think it is an impossible scenario.

[Cletus]

al Qeada released a statement about bin Laden's death. They are evil troglodytes, but they always have been upfront and honest about their goals and actions.

I see no reason to disbelieve them.

They had no body, either. How did they confirm his death?

[Peter1469]

From his wives who saw his face explode?
They had no body, either. How did they confirm his death?

[MisterVeritis]

C'mon. Just admit that your only evidence that Bin Laden is still alive is a conspiracy theory.
I admit to no evidence that Bin Laden was killed.

[MisterVeritis]

al Qeada released a statement about bin Laden's death. They are evil troglodytes, but they always have been upfront and honest about their goals and actions.

I see no reason to disbelieve them.
What evidence do they have? Do they have a body? DNA evidence? Photos?

[MisterVeritis]

From his wives who saw his face explode?
Hearsay with no corroborating physical evidence. Why is there a lack of evidence?

[Peter1469]

What evidence do they have? Do they have a body? DNA evidence? Photos?

bin Laden's wives saw him get shot in the face twice.

[Peter1469]

Hearsay with no corroborating physical evidence. Why is there a lack of evidence?

There is evidence, we can judge what we think of it.

bin Laden was pretty much useless at the time of his death - there would be no reason to make it up and hide him.

If today we learned he was alive and protected by the US, I would say, Oh? And why does this matter to me?

[Peter1469]

Hearsay with no corroborating physical evidence. Why is there a lack of evidence?

That would be direct testimony. Not hearsay.

[MisterVeritis]

Why is there a lack of evidence?

There is evidence, we can judge what we think of it.
We ought to have a mountain of physical evidence. Why don't we?

bin Laden was pretty much useless at the time of his death - there would be no reason to make it up and hide him.

If today we learned he was alive and protected by the US, I would say, Oh? And why does this matter to me?
And yet all we have is a Legend, something the intelligence community made up. Why?

[MisterVeritis]

That would be direct testimony. Not hearsay.
Either way, there remains no physical evidence. Strange don't you think?

[MisterVeritis]

That would be direct testimony. Not hearsay.
Was it taken under oath?

[Peter1469]

Why is there a lack of evidence?

We ought to have a mountain of physical evidence. Why don't we?

And yet all we have is a Legend, something the intelligence community made up. Why?

Does it matter?

[Peter1469]

Was it taken under oath?

It is direct testimony not hearsay- which has a specific meaning. Neither require an oath.

[Cletus]

bin Laden's wives saw him get shot in the face twice.

Did they?

Let's play Devil's Advocate and assume they are AQ loyalists. What would be better for AQ... for Bin Laden to be dead or for him to be captured by the Americans?

A dead Bin Laden is a martyr. A captured Bin Laden is both an embarrassment and a liability.

[Tahuyaman]

I admit to no evidence that Bin Laden was killed.

So, the video evidence is fake? The men who conducted the the raid are lying?

[MisterVeritis]

Does it matter?
The complete lack of physical evidence leads me to believe Bin Laden was not killed in the raid. I don't know if it matters or not. It must matter to someone or we would have death evidence.

[MisterVeritis]

So, the video evidence is fake? The men who conducted the the raid are lying?
To what video evidence do you refer? Do you have a link to video of Bin Laden's body blown to pieces?

[Tahuyaman]

bin Laden's wives saw him get shot in the face twice.


Eveyone with any any common sense knew at the time that the killing of Bin Laden would motivate a variety of conspiracy theories.

[MisterVeritis]

It is direct testimony not hearsay- which has a specific meaning. Neither require an oath.
Who was the direct testimony given to? What were the conditions?

I retract hearsay although I have only heard it second-hand.

[Tahuyaman]

To what video evidence do you refer? Do you have a link to video of Bin Laden's body blown to pieces?

His body wasn't blown to pieces. He was shot in the head.


Tell me, was the moon landing faked too? Have you seen any black helecopters hovering over your home lately?

[MisterVeritis]

Eveyone with any any common sense knew at the time that the killing of Bin Laden would motivate a variety of conspiracy theories.
It would be very easy to end all speculation. So why do you suppose the government has not produced any physical evidence?

Since you imply you have common sense this should be easy for you.

[MisterVeritis]

His body wasn't blown to pieces. He was shot in the head.
Do you have pictures?

[MisterVeritis]

Tell me, was the moon landing faked too? Have you seen any black helecopters hovering over your home lately?
Are you easily frustrated?

[Peter1469]

Did they?

Let's play Devil's Advocate and assume they are AQ loyalists. What would be better for AQ... for Bin Laden to be dead or for him to be captured by the Americans?

A dead Bin Laden is a martyr. A captured Bin Laden is both an embarrassment and a liability.

A captured bin Laden could ignite a firestorm of extremism. Just as a tomb could.

I live in the district when he likely would have been tried. I would be really worried in the case of a trial. Especially since my 2nd Amendment rights are denied when I go to work.

[Peter1469]

Who was the direct testimony given to? What were the conditions?

I retract hearsay although I have only heard it second-hand.

The wives talked to the press, their families, and the bin Laden loyalists.

[Tahuyaman]

Conspiracy theorists are a goofy bunch.

[Peter1469]

It would be very easy to end all speculation. So why do you suppose the government has not produced any physical evidence?

Since you imply you have common sense this should be easy for you.

The CSI effect.

Because of the TV show CSI, people now don't give credence to circumstantial evidence. The common jury instruction says if your driveway it dry when you go to sleep, but wet when you wake up you can conclude that it rained. Of course if there is evidence than your neighbor sprayed his hose on it, you can consider that as well.

[Tahuyaman]

The wives talked to the press, their families, and the bin Laden loyalists.


Forget it. I'm waiting for him to next claim that "big oil" is in a conspracy to keep the 100 MPG carburetor off the market.

[Cletus]

A captured bin Laden could ignite a firestorm of extremism. Just as a tomb could.

I live in the district when he likely would have been tried. I would be really worried in the case of a trial. Especially since my 2nd Amendment rights are denied when I go to work.

Who said anything about putting him on trial? That would just be a circus. IF he was captured instead of killed, he could be in a black site prison anywhere.

Personally, I think he was killed. However, the lack of actual evidence does make the government's claim suspect.

[Peter1469]

Conspiracy theorists are a goofy bunch.

I believe in a lot of them. To include MJ-Ultra. Except that one has been proven true.


But bid Laden died at the hands of Seal Team 6. Bang. To the face.

[Peter1469]

Forget it. I'm waiting for him to next claim that "big oil" is in a conspracy to keep the 100 MPG carburetor off the market.

Hey, that is true. :cool2:

[Peter1469]

Who said anything about putting him on trial? That would just be a circus. IF he was captured instead of killed, he could be in a black site prison anywhere.

Personally, I think he was killed. However, the lack of actual evidence does make the government's claim suspect.

It is smart to not trust the government.

[MisterVeritis]

The wives talked to the press, their families, and the bin Laden loyalists.
Cool.

The government claims it had Bin Laden's body for 24 hours. Do we have any physical evidence whatsoever that the government killed him?

[MisterVeritis]

I believe in a lot of them. To include MJ-Ultra. Except that one has been proven true.


But bid Laden died at the hands of Seal Team 6. Bang. To the face.
MJ Ultra is an LA based alternative-R&B artist.

Hmmm.

[Peter1469]

Cool.

The government claims it had Bin Laden's body for 24 hours. Do we have any physical evidence whatsoever that the government killed him?

Yes, the government claims it has photos and DNA evidence. One of the Seal Team 6 dudes laid down next to the dead bin Laden so photos could be taken for size comparison. DNA was taken for testing.

But neither me nor you have access to that evidence.

[Peter1469]

MJ Ultra is an LA based alternative-R&B artist.

Hmmm.


Mind control experiments that resulted in the Senate's Church Committee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra).

[MisterVeritis]

Yes, the government claims it has photos and DNA evidence. One of the Seal Team 6 dudes laid down next to the dead bin Laden so photos could be taken for size comparison. DNA was taken for testing.

But neither me nor you have access to that evidence.
Why not?

[MisterVeritis]

Mind control experiments that resulted in the Senate's Church Committee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra).
Perhaps MK-Ultra?

[Tahuyaman]

I believe in a lot of them. To include MJ-Ultra. Except that one has been proven true.


But bid Laden died at the hands of Seal Team 6. Bang. To the face.
MJ ultra?

One thing I’ve noticed about someone who believes in any conspiracy theory is that they are locked in. Nothing can budge them.

[MisterVeritis]

MJ ultra?

One thing I’ve noticed about someone who believes in any conspiracy theory is that they are locked in. Nothing can budge them.
I don't know about that. An official, government certified set of death photos complete with members of the SEAL Team members who lay next to him would end my doubts.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't know about that. An official, government certified set of death photos complete with members of the SEAL Team members who lay next to him would end my doubts.

It wouldn't end your doubts. You'd move on the the burial at sea.

[donttread]

I do not believe we killed Bin Laden.

I did not believe the story from the very first. I won't tell you what I believe did happen.

Some think he is still alive, I think he was long dead. I won't pry as to what you think.

[donttread]

Conspiracy theorists are a goofy bunch.


You mean like those crazy bastards who thought the government was secretly spying on Americans ?

[Tahuyaman]

You mean like those crazy $#@!s who thought the government was secretly spying on Americans ?


So, that gives all idiotic conspiracy theories credibility? You need to stay awake all night looking for black helecopters and then go searching for all the clandestine concentration camps.

[Peter1469]

Why not?

Policy made by someone other than me.

[Peter1469]

Perhaps MK-Ultra?

That's the one.

[Peter1469]

MJ ultra?

One thing I’ve noticed about someone who believes in any conspiracy theory is that they are locked in. Nothing can budge them.

People laughed about MJ Ultra. Then they stopped laughing after the Church Committee.

[Peter1469]

So, that gives all idiotic conspiracy theories credibility? You need to stay awake all night looking for black helecopters and then go searching for all the clandestine concentration camps.

LoL. It is not all or nothing. A lot of conspiracy theories are fake. Some are not.

[Tahuyaman]

LoL. It is not all or nothing. A lot of conspiracy theories are fake. Some are not.
Most are fake. By definition conspiracy theories are fake.

[Peter1469]

Most are fake. By definition conspiracy theories are fake.

MK Ultra

[Tahuyaman]

MK Ultra

If it actually happened, it wasn't a conspriacy theory.

[Peter1469]

If it actually happened, it wasn't a conspriacy theory.

bin Laden.

[MisterVeritis]

But neither me nor you have access to that evidence.

Policy made by someone other than me.
It has been a while now. What possible reason could the government have for not giving us the evidence?

[donttread]

So, that gives all idiotic conspiracy theories credibility? You need to stay awake all night looking for black helecopters and then go searching for all the clandestine concentration camps.


Some are more credible than others but to think the only true one has already come out would be foolish

[Cannons Front]

[QUOTEbut was pushed out in 1983 due to McRaven's concerns about a culture of recklessness, military discipline, and difficulties in keeping his sailors in line] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._McRaven Sounds like a whiny little $#@! to me!http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/smilies/newsmilies/holdbreath.gif


That was when he was in Team 6 under Marcinko. Seal Team 6 was in it's very early stages, it had been formed less than 3 years. Dick Marcinko was a wild man he ruffled a lot of feathers while he may have been a great operator he took to extremes, many people had issues with Team 6 and it's culture of recklessness, military discipline, and difficulties in keeping his sailors in line which is why in 83 not long after McRaven left, Marcinko was replaced.
I did not meet Marcinko until he was well retired written a few books and heading up a security company, even then he was wild and had no problems talking about while being in command of seal team 6 he pushed very hard but said he would never change a thing if he had it to do again.
Seal team 6 is what it is today because of him but you can not fault someone for looking at it in a bad light in those early years.

[Admiral Ackbar]

This still is a non issue. Inside swamp stuff nothing more.

[MisterVeritis]

This still is a non issue. Inside swamp stuff nothing more.
"This" meaning revoking security clearances?

[Tahuyaman]

Some are more credible than others but to think the only true one has already come out would be foolish


The only true one has already come out? What does that mean?

Look, Bin a laden is dead. He was killed in a raid conducted by a Navy SEAL team. Anything which contradicts that is a conspiracy theory.

[Captdon]

Policy made by someone other than me.

Having the pictures up all over the ME was not thought to be very smart.

His burial was to prevent a shrine for him.

It doesn't matter anyway.

[MisterVeritis]

The only true one has already come out? What does that mean?

Look, Bin a laden is dead. He was killed in a raid conducted by a Navy SEAL team. Anything which contradicts that is a conspiracy theory.
What is contradicted? No physical evidence of bin Laden's killing has been released. It has been seven years. If bin Laden was killed show us the photos.

[MisterVeritis]

Having the pictures up all over the ME was not thought to be very smart.

His burial was to prevent a shrine for him.

It doesn't matter anyway.
It looks like a cover-up.

We could have kept his body for days or weeks before dumping it in the ocean. Why was it critical to dispose of the body (or pretend to do so) in a day?

[Peter1469]

That was when he was in Team 6 under Marcinko. Seal Team 6 was in it's very early stages, it had been formed less than 3 years. Dick Marcinko was a wild man he ruffled a lot of feathers while he may have been a great operator he took to extremes, many people had issues with Team 6 and it's culture of recklessness, military discipline, and difficulties in keeping his sailors in line which is why in 83 not long after McRaven left, Marcinko was replaced.
I did not meet Marcinko until he was well retired written a few books and heading up a security company, even then he was wild and had no problems talking about while being in command of seal team 6 he pushed very hard but said he would never change a thing if he had it to do again.
Seal team 6 is what it is today because of him but you can not fault someone for looking at it in a bad light in those early years.
I never met the guy, but I read all of his books.

[Sergeant Gleed]

I feel like we've entered the twilight zone. This animosity towards many of our top intel officers is puzzling to me. Is the general position from the Trump camp that no level of service is worthy of respect?

You're talking about Brennan, who's been trying to overturn the election of the candidate he hated?

What "respect" does that creature deserve?

You're talking about one Secretary of State who used the position to take bribes and, among many other things, transfer control of 20% of US uranium to Russia, an act of massive "collusion"?

You're talking about the other Secretary of State who engineering the Iran Giveaway?

You're talking about Comey, who decided that a person with more than 150 known violations of the Espionage Act and DELIBERATE destruction of evidence under subpoena...and allowing non-cleared lawyers to view classified documents in the process....had not committed any crimes...because he wanted her to be the next President? And then he personally leaked classified presidential interview members to the media specifically to create a false excuse for a Special Persecutor?

Comey deserves respect for what? Be specific and explain how that outweighs his abuses of power and corruption of his office?

Hillary deserves respect for what? Being the most corrupt woman in recorded history?

Kerry deserves respect for what, being a coward AND a traitor? Or just for marrying a rich widow, twice, as I recall?

Who else have we got?

There's the Obama-critter itself. What did it do that earned any respect? Bowing? Betraying? Bleating? Mispronouncing "Corpsman"? His legacy is the legacy of the only fake president in US history, and the only occupier of the Oval Office with ...no accomplishments.

No.

If they don't earn respect, they don't get it just because they lost their jobs.

BUT...because they HAVE lost their jobs...they are supposed to lose their security clearances as well.

[Sergeant Gleed]

Let's talk about the other side, too.

What respect does GW Bush deserve, who kept his stupid mouth shut when that Kenyan was working so hard to destroy the country....but spoke up immediately against President Trump?

None.

What respect does his brother, the one who had to beg to get the clap, deserve?

Mitt Romney is carpet-bagging a Senate seat from Utah, whose people deserve their own representative instead. Romney was so incompetent he couldn't win against that traitor from Kenya.

What respect should we give that smarmy dirt bag? Try "none".

Then there's Colon Powell, who discovered that race pimping can get him laid.

I bet Colon still has his security clearance. He earned its retention by betraying American virtues like the racist he is.

There's no reason, none, why any ex-employee of the US government should retain a security clearance...including ex-presidents.

[spunkloaf]

You're talking about Brennan, who's been trying to overturn the election of the candidate he hated?

What "respect" does that creature deserve?

You're talking about one Secretary of State who used the position to take bribes and, among many other things, transfer control of 20% of US uranium to Russia, an act of massive "collusion"?

You're talking about the other Secretary of State who engineering the Iran Giveaway?

You're talking about Comey, who decided that a person with more than 150 known violations of the Espionage Act and DELIBERATE destruction of evidence under subpoena...and allowing non-cleared lawyers to view classified documents in the process....had not committed any crimes...because he wanted her to be the next President? And then he personally leaked classified presidential interview members to the media specifically to create a false excuse for a Special Persecutor?

Comey deserves respect for what? Be specific and explain how that outweighs his abuses of power and corruption of his office?

Hillary deserves respect for what? Being the most corrupt woman in recorded history?

Kerry deserves respect for what, being a coward AND a traitor? Or just for marrying a rich widow, twice, as I recall?

Who else have we got?

There's the Obama-critter itself. What did it do that earned any respect? Bowing? Betraying? Bleating? Mispronouncing "Corpsman"? His legacy is the legacy of the only fake president in US history, and the only occupier of the Oval Office with ...no accomplishments.

No.

If they don't earn respect, they don't get it just because they lost their jobs.

BUT...because they HAVE lost their jobs...they are supposed to lose their security clearances as well.

:rolleyes21:

[Sergeant Gleed]

No, I said nothing about the Russians but nice try. I'm speaking about a balance of power and the importance of procedures to ensure there is no misuse of that power. Please keep in mind, any precedence set by this President and his Administration will allow future Presidents and Administrations the same courtesy.

The POWER to protect national security rests in the hands of the President.

Not in the hands of ex-employees who want to overturn an election their side lost.

As far as I'm concerned, federal employees should not be allowed to vote, let alone overturn elections.

[Sergeant Gleed]

Most are fake. By definition conspiracy theories are fake.

Really?

What about the on-going conspiracy by the Rodents to over throw President Trump?

[Sergeant Gleed]

But neither me nor you have access to that evidence.

It has been a while now. What possible reason could the government have for not giving us the evidence?


You're kidding, right?


The animals in Trashcanistan rioted when the TRASHCANISTANIS burned their idiot religious book publicly.

The State Department allowed a planned terrorist act to occur in Benghazi, just so they could try out their failed "it was all about a funny documentary" line.

They're not releasing the death photos because:

1) Morons claim that the lunar landings didn't happen.
2) Morons claim that, based on the release of two forged birth certificates, that Obama was really born in Hawaii.
3) Morons claim that whatever the next thing is morons will claim. They vote for Rodents, so who knows what stupid thing will come out next.
.
..
…
..
.
n+1) The mental defectives that do the Asses in the Air for Allah show will riot.

[Sergeant Gleed]

This still is a non issue. Inside swamp stuff nothing more.


No, it's a big issue (assuming you're on the thread track and not the loonie bin Laden LIVES! derailment...)

Remember Sandy Burglar and his abuse of his security clearance to cover up the actions of his rapist buddy after 9-11.

Non-active duty personnel don't need access to classified information or areas.

[Sergeant Gleed]

Having the pictures up all over the ME was not thought to be very smart.

His burial was to prevent a shrine for him.

It doesn't matter anyway.



Besides, the crabs needed to be poisoned.

[Sergeant Gleed]

It looks like a cover-up.

We could have kept his body for days or weeks before dumping it in the ocean. Why was it critical to dispose of the body (or pretend to do so) in a day?


My preferred scenario is that bin Laden was held incommunicado and waterboarded until he was empty, then disposed of at our convenience.

Unfortunately the fake-president of the time was a taqqiya muslim traitor who wouldn't have tolerated that, and I'm inclined to believe that Seal Team 6 shot him to prevent that Kenyan from finding an excuse to let him go again.

[Trish]

You're talking about Brennan, who's been trying to overturn the election of the candidate he hated?

What "respect" does that creature deserve?

You're talking about one Secretary of State who used the position to take bribes and, among many other things, transfer control of 20% of US uranium to Russia, an act of massive "collusion"?

You're talking about the other Secretary of State who engineering the Iran Giveaway?

You're talking about Comey, who decided that a person with more than 150 known violations of the Espionage Act and DELIBERATE destruction of evidence under subpoena...and allowing non-cleared lawyers to view classified documents in the process....had not committed any crimes...because he wanted her to be the next President? And then he personally leaked classified presidential interview members to the media specifically to create a false excuse for a Special Persecutor?

Comey deserves respect for what? Be specific and explain how that outweighs his abuses of power and corruption of his office?

Hillary deserves respect for what? Being the most corrupt woman in recorded history?

Kerry deserves respect for what, being a coward AND a traitor? Or just for marrying a rich widow, twice, as I recall?

Who else have we got?

There's the Obama-critter itself. What did it do that earned any respect? Bowing? Betraying? Bleating? Mispronouncing "Corpsman"? His legacy is the legacy of the only fake president in US history, and the only occupier of the Oval Office with ...no accomplishments.

No.

If they don't earn respect, they don't get it just because they lost their jobs.

BUT...because they HAVE lost their jobs...they are supposed to lose their security clearances as well.

Actually, No, that's not exactly who I'm talking about but your posts gives me a better insight to your line of thinking.

[Trish]

The POWER to protect national security rests in the hands of the President.

Not in the hands of ex-employees who want to overturn an election their side lost.

As far as I'm concerned, federal employees should not be allowed to vote, let alone overturn elections.

Interesting perspective. Thanks

[MisterVeritis]

You're kidding, right?


The animals in Trashcanistan rioted when the TRASHCANISTANIS burned their idiot religious book publicly.

The State Department allowed a planned terrorist act to occur in Benghazi, just so they could try out their failed "it was all about a funny documentary" line.

They're not releasing the death photos because:

1) Morons claim that the lunar landings didn't happen.
2) Morons claim that, based on the release of two forged birth certificates, that Obama was really born in Hawaii.
3) Morons claim that whatever the next thing is morons will claim. They vote for Rodents, so who knows what stupid thing will come out next.
.
..
…
..
.
n+1) The mental defectives that do the Asses in the Air for Allah show will riot.
In other words, there is no reason not to release the bin Laden death photos.

[spunkloaf]

In other words, there is no reason not to release the bin Laden death photos.

I see. So, because the guy who oversaw the bin Laden raid has criticized your beloved bff Trump, you are going to promote the conspiracy theory that bin Laden was never actually killed. How grown-up and responsible of you.

[MisterVeritis]

I see. So, because the guy who oversaw the bin Laden raid has criticized your beloved bff Trump, you are going to promote the conspiracy theory that bin Laden was never actually killed. How grown-up and responsible of you.
This post fails to respond to my post.

[Tahuyaman]

Really?

What about the on-going conspiracy by the Rodents to over throw President Trump?

There's no conspiracy there. They don't need to conspire. They are just acting on their own mob rule inclinations.

[Sergeant Gleed]

In other words, there is no reason not to release the bin Laden death photos.

Ya.

Don't be a Rodent.

Stick to what I said, don't put turds in my mouth.

[Sergeant Gleed]

There's no conspiracy there. They don't need to conspire. They are just acting on their own mob rule inclinations.


Yeah, except there's a conspiracy to totally ignore all the crimes Hillary and Comey and Brennan and Rodentstein and Meuller have committed.

[Mr.Soxes]

In other words, there is no reason not to release the bin Laden death photos.

Its hard to produce things you dont have!:icon_salut:
Think Russian collusion!:boobs:

[Mr.Soxes]

I see. So, because the guy who oversaw the bin Laden raid has criticized your beloved bff Trump, you are going to promote the conspiracy theory that bin Laden was never actually killed. How grown-up and responsible of you.
Should he be talking at all if he is entrusted by the TRUMP with classified info?:afro: