Civil war looms for Democrats after left-wing upsets: 'This is just the beginning'

[Common]

I agree its just the begining and old guard democrats are going to be out on their ass in a couple of cycles. The democrat party will go full flat out left wing insane and then the country will start going to the right again.

Shes another candidate that won on a socialist platform. Give everyone everything for free on the back of everyone else that works of course. The most amazing thing to me is that people were stupid enough to believe that we could ever pay for all that, read the highlight

Ayanna Pressley (https://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/ayanna-pressley/) cruised to victory in Massachusetts in a stunning primary victory Tuesday, ousting a 10-term House incumbent while promising voters she would abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement, create government-run health care and enact free college tuition.


Liberal activists said that platform helped energize voters, giving her a 17-point margin of victory over Rep. Michael Capuano, the second longtime Democratic lawmaker to fall in a primary this year to a more liberal candidate.

It’s also vastly different than the platform Democratic leaders are selling.

The competing agendas could become a problem should the party win control of the House in November, leaving liberal activists salivating over a list of left-wing priorities that party leaders haven’t agreed to.


“The people are demanding policies like Medicare for All, a $15-an-hour minimum wage and tuition-free college,” said Nasim Thompson, a spokeswoman for Justice Democrats. “If they don’t fight for these policies,


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/5/ayanna-pressley-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wins-furt/

[stjames1_53]

Socialism/Communism only works as long as the other guy has money left.

[Common Sense]

OMG...these lunatics want to turn their states in Canada!

Yes, there is a division among Democrats. There are the establishment Dems who want evolutionary change, a strong military and economic growth. Then there are the Sanders types who want to emulate Canada and Europe. They want immediate change and vision of America that scares many on the right.

What is happening is, the further right the right goes, the further left the new left goes...and vice versa. Obama ended up pushing some on the right further right and now Trump is pushing some on the left further left.

[Common Sense]

Socialism/Communism only works as long as the other guy has money left.

Socialism and communism are two different things.

[Mister D]

Socialism and communism are two different things.

You could say the same about Nazism and fascism.

[Common]

OMG...these lunatics want to turn their states in Canada!

Yes, there is a division among Democrats. There are the establishment Dems who want evolutionary change, a strong military and economic growth. Then there are the Sanders types who want to emulate Canada and Europe. They want immediate change and vision of America that scares many on the right.

What is happening is, the further right the right goes, the further left the new left goes...and vice versa. Obama ended up pushing some on the right further right and now Trump is pushing some on the left further left.
Uh Canada has no border or immigration controls ? and they have free college for all and is your health care free ?

[roadmaster]

Socialism and communism are two different things. National socialism is different than socialism. Socialism always leads to communism.

[Common]

Can anyone on the left explain something to me.

How do you take a HUGE health care system thats probably 10 times larger than canadas and larger than any other countries for that matter.

How do you take it and tell all the millions of investors who have billions invested and say screw you. Are you going to pay all the people the MILLIONS of people working in health care the same rate of pay as now ?

HOw do you convince Drs and we probably have 25 drs to 1 canadian or more who have hundreds of thousands invested in their offices and computer systems and tell them you no longer have a practice you work for us. How are you going to convince drs to take a salary thats far lower than what they have.

Then how to convince the more than half of all americans that have health care not to start a revolution

Now college how do you take all these for Profit colleges that have investors and tell them screw you college is now free. Of course normal humans realize thats bs nothing is free.

And the borders most of america is against open borders, how do you convince them you are going to abolish all border controls and just let anyone from anywhere just sachet right in here, even liberals enmasse arent dumb enough to ever let that happen.

[Common Sense]

Uh Canada has no border or immigration controls ? and they have free college for all and is your health care free ?

Getting rid of ICE doesn't mean no border control or immigration control. ICE is a new agency. It's only 15 years old.

College isn't free, but it's subsidized.

Healthcare isn't free. Its insurance is however funded through federal and provincial taxation and administered by the province.

[roadmaster]

Bernie Sanders is a communist, hides behind socialism. Trump is a national socialist. We call it America first or patriotism. For the people by the people in the USA. Might as well get use to it.

[Common Sense]

National socialism is different than socialism. Socialism always leads to communism.
No it doesn't. There are many countries that have socialist elements (including the US) that are in no danger of becoming communist. Sweden, Finland, Norway, Canada etc...aren't about to turn communist.

[Common Sense]

Bernie Sanders is a communist, hides behind socialism. Trump is a national socialist. We call it America first or patriotism. For the people by the people in the USA. Might as well get use to it.

Wut?

[Jeb!]

Michael Capuano didn't get primaried because he was insufficiently left-wing, he was primaried because he was white.

[Dr. Who]

Can anyone on the left explain something to me.

How do you take a HUGE health care system thats probably 10 times larger than canadas and larger than any other countries for that matter.

How do you take it and tell all the millions of investors who have billions invested and say screw you. Are you going to pay all the people the MILLIONS of people working in health care the same rate of pay as now ?

HOw do you convince Drs and we probably have 25 drs to 1 canadian or more who have hundreds of thousands invested in their offices and computer systems and tell them you no longer have a practice you work for us. How are you going to convince drs to take a salary thats far lower than what they have.

Then how to convince the more than half of all americans that have health care not to start a revolution

Now college how do you take all these for Profit colleges that have investors and tell them screw you college is now free. Of course normal humans realize thats bs nothing is free.

And the borders most of america is against open borders, how do you convince them you are going to abolish all border controls and just let anyone from anywhere just sachet right in here, even liberals enmasse arent dumb enough to ever let that happen.

Doctors in Canada are not employees of the Provinces, they are independent businesses that bill the Province in which their practice is located. Second, I posted comparative medical incomes the other day and the rates of compensation are currently pretty much the same in Canada as in the US. Furthermore, they direct bill the Province, so they have less bookkeeping.

Yes, healthcare workers could make exactly the same money as they make now. What would have to change is what Big Pharma charges for pharmaceuticals in America vs the rest of the world. Also, hospitals would have to be cost recovery - basically non-profit.

[Cannons Front]

Getting rid of ICE doesn't mean no border control or immigration control. ICE is a new agency. It's only 15 years old. College isn't free, but it's subsidized. Healthcare isn't free. Its insurance is however funded through federal and provincial taxation and administered by the province.

While ICE in it's current form is only 15 years old it is just a merger of two agencies that have always existed in some form. If you dissolve ICE, you would still have a federal agency that has the same job, same people that are still doing the same thing. So why are we dissolving ICE? The functions of that agency are needed regardless of the name.

College, so where does the money come from for your "FREE" subsidized College?

What is your plan for all of the workers in the medical Ins industry that your new system would quickly make unemployed?

[countryboy]

Bernie Sanders is a communist, hides behind socialism. Trump is a national socialist. We call it America first or patriotism. For the people by the people in the USA. Might as well get use to it.

National socialism is Nazism. Trump is not a Nazi. He may be a nationalist, but not a national socialist.

[countryboy]

No it doesn't. There are many countries that have socialist elements (including the US) that are in no danger of becoming communist. Sweden, Finland, Norway, Canada etc...aren't about to turn communist.

None of those countries have "socialist elements". They may have big government social programs, but not socialism. Socialism is government ownership of the means of production. The countries you name above all have capitalist systems.

[Common]

Getting rid of ICE doesn't mean no border control or immigration control. ICE is a new agency. It's only 15 years old.

College isn't free, but it's subsidized.

Healthcare isn't free. Its insurance is however funded through federal and provincial taxation and administered by the province.

Did you read what she said CS ?? obviously you did not, She clearly stated she would ABOLISH IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT, so anyone can come into the USA and bring ANYTHING THEY WANT WITH THEM because there would be no customs enforcement.

I hope Dozens more of these democrats get elected

Tuesday, ousting a 10-term House incumbent while promising voters she would abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement, create government-run health care and enact free college tuition.

[Common]

Doctors in Canada are not employees of the Provinces, they are independent businesses that bill the Province in which their practice is located. Second, I posted comparative medical incomes the other day and the rates of compensation are currently pretty much the same in Canada as in the US. Furthermore, they direct bill the Province, so they have less bookkeeping.

Yes, healthcare workers could make exactly the same money as they make now. What would have to change is what Big Pharma charges for pharmaceuticals in America vs the rest of the world. Also, hospitals would have to be cost recovery - basically non-profit.

The province dictates what they are paid, they issue no bills just what the service was the payments are all pat payments. I know that because theres a Canadian dr in our VFW with the Canadian Veterans group we embraced.

You neglected the billions in private investments in health care and you cant just tell me healthcare workers would be paid the same, because you cant know that.

What you are not telling us is how much this transition will cost and how much the ongoing burder will be.

Lets not forget we have had socialized medicine for Veterans for DECADES and every president has promised to fix it because it SUCKS AND ALWAYS DID SUCK, now try and let the govt run it for everyone.

Now please address the free college for everyone, what about all the for profit colleges, what about Professor pay and benefits and how do we pay for all that.

Now please address abolishing all immigration controls and all customs.

Doc I sincerely hope dozens of democrats who caused all this insanity, are replaced by these even crazier new people

[stjames1_53]

Socialism and communism are two different things.

......only to the socialists. Socialism is the nail and communism is the hammer, and you damn well know it. You must force socialism on those individuals who don't want anything to do with it. Then it becomes communism. The final result is what you have in Venezuela, today. Take your fricking socialism and park it where the sun doesn't shine, like in your mom's basement.

[stjames1_53]

No it doesn't. There are many countries that have socialist elements (including the US) that are in no danger of becoming communist. Sweden, Finland, Norway, Canada etc...aren't about to turn communist.

really....how droll..............forcing economic systems through government IS communism. It is forced socialism. You don't need a Mao in office for government to become socialistic. You need someone in office to stop the drive and herd to socialism............ for that, we hired Trump.

[Mini Me]

OMG...these lunatics want to turn their states in Canada!

Yes, there is a division among Democrats. There are the establishment Dems who want evolutionary change, a strong military and economic growth. Then there are the Sanders types who want to emulate Canada and Europe. They want immediate change and vision of America that scares many on the right.

What is happening is, the further right the right goes, the further left the new left goes...and vice versa. Obama ended up pushing some on the right further right and now Trump is pushing some on the left further left.
That is not what normally happens!

[Mini Me]

You could say the same about Nazism and fascism.

You can, But I sure wont!Nazism has always been considered to be fascism.

[Chris]

National socialism is different than socialism. Socialism always leads to communism.

Actually, national socialism (Nazism) and global socialism (communism) are just two forms of socialism.

[Chris]

Can anyone on the left explain something to me.

How do you take a HUGE health care system thats probably 10 times larger than canadas and larger than any other countries for that matter.

How do you take it and tell all the millions of investors who have billions invested and say screw you. Are you going to pay all the people the MILLIONS of people working in health care the same rate of pay as now ?

HOw do you convince Drs and we probably have 25 drs to 1 canadian or more who have hundreds of thousands invested in their offices and computer systems and tell them you no longer have a practice you work for us. How are you going to convince drs to take a salary thats far lower than what they have.

Then how to convince the more than half of all americans that have health care not to start a revolution

Now college how do you take all these for Profit colleges that have investors and tell them screw you college is now free. Of course normal humans realize thats bs nothing is free.

And the borders most of america is against open borders, how do you convince them you are going to abolish all border controls and just let anyone from anywhere just sachet right in here, even liberals enmasse arent dumb enough to ever let that happen.


Why you just pass a law. Liberalism, Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

[Chris]

Socialism and communism are two different things.

They are, according to certain people. Can you elaborate who and how they differentiate? Then I'll say who and how they're the same.

[Mister D]

You can, But I sure wont!Nazism has always been considered to be fascism.
And the USSR was always considered socialist. What's your point?

[Mister D]

They are, according to certain people. Can you elaborate who and how they differentiate? Then I'll say who and how they're the same.

With regard to how Nazism and fascism differ I would say that racist ideology and imperialism were central to the former whereas they were peripheral or even absent in the latter.

[Chris]

With regard to how Nazism and fascism differ I would say that racist ideology and imperialism were central to the former whereas they were peripheral or even absent in the latter.

But race to Nazis wasn't the same thing some people harp on today. It was much broader and could be applied to any group of people and their common heritage. Nowadays it's just a superficial black and white thing.

[Chris]

And the USSR was always considered socialist. What's your point?

It was but according to strict Marxist views, socialism, the dictatorship of the proletariat, was the means to achieving communism, the perfection of society in the individual. Problem is socialism always fails and the pipe dream goes up in smoke.

[Dr. Who]

The province dictates what they are paid, they issue no bills just what the service was the payments are all pat payments. I know that because theres a Canadian dr in our VFW with the Canadian Veterans group we embraced. You neglected the billions in private investments in health care and you cant just tell me healthcare workers would be paid the same, because you cant know that. What you are not telling us is how much this transition will cost and how much the ongoing burder will be. Lets not forget we have had socialized medicine for Veterans for DECADES and every president has promised to fix it because it SUCKS AND ALWAYS DID SUCK, now try and let the govt run it for everyone. Now please address the free college for everyone, what about all the for profit colleges, what about Professor pay and benefits and how do we pay for all that. Now please address abolishing all immigration controls and all customs. Doc I sincerely hope dozens of democrats who caused all this insanity, are replaced by these even crazier new peopleNurse salary comparison https://woman.thenest.com/difference-rn-pay-usa-canada-13267.html Also note, Canadian nurses are unionized and have a very good pension plan.US doctor who moved to Canada and why: https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/u-s-doctor-who-moved-to-ont-shares-observations-on-canadian-health-care-1.2714899Another US doctor who moved to Canada re Canadian doctors thinking of relocating to the US:Green says anyone thinking about decamping to the U.S. for financial reasons will get a rude awakening when considering the costs associated with billing. “To try to go set up a private practice in U.S., what folks discover is that the cost of billing and collections would eat up everything you might save in taxes and more,” Green says. “They’d quickly discover themselves up to their necks in a complex and often totally contradictory billing system.”Green also remembers looking at his malpractice insurance (http://work.chron.com/much-doctors-pay-insurance-7304.html) invoice when he arrived in Canada, thinking it was pretty stiff – until he realized it was an annual fee. “If they think taxes are bad, wait until they see their malpractice premium,” he says.Canada’s system isn’t perfect – our fee-for-service structure isn’t ideal, although Green notes that the type of alternative relationship plan that pays his own salary is a step in the right direction. And he says family physician culture in Canada probably gives doctors too much personal autonomy over things like patient data, making it difficult to study the effectiveness of the system. But he says he would find it very difficult to return to the U.S., mostly because he believes the U.S. system is designed to value profits over care.http://healthydebate.ca/2017/10/topic/canada-us-doctorsAs to 100% subsidized post-secondary schooling, perhaps what could be saved in single-payer healthcare, could be reallocated to if not totally subsidized post-secondary education, at least it could cut down the fees to something manageable for most people.

[Mister D]

But race to Nazis wasn't the same thing some people harp on today. It was much broader and could be applied to any group of people and their common heritage. Nowadays it's just a superficial black and white thing.
Yes, that's true. The Nazis were pretty serious about it. That's kind of what I mean.

[Mister D]

It was but according to strict Marxist views, socialism, the dictatorship of the proletariat, was the means to achieving communism, the perfection of society in the individual. Problem is socialism always fails and the pipe dream goes up in smoke.
Even by that logic is still bears an extremely close relationship with communism, It's part of the same historical process. It doesn't stand alone conceptually.

[Chris]

Even by that logic is still bears an extremely close relationship with communism, It's part of the same historical process. It doesn't stand alone conceptually.

Right, and the more common definitions won't separate them ideologically.

[Mister D]

Right, and the more common definitions won't separate them ideologically.
So far no one has tried, however, I see a web cut and paste coming...

[Chris]

Socialism and communism are two different things.


So far no one has tried, however, I see a web cut and paste coming...


CS seems to think there's a difference. We'll see. I'm expecting a LOL.