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Chris
09-21-2018, 11:22 AM
Trillion-Dollar Deficits Are Already Here. Thanks, Republicans! (http://reason.com/blog/2018/09/21/trillion-deficits-debt-republicans-trump)


The Congressional Budget Office projected in April that the federal budget deficit would hit $804 billion this year, and would top $1 trillion by 2020.

Last week, the CBO updated its projection, saying that the federal government had already spent $895 billion more than it brought in this year, and that the deficit would hit $1 trillion before the end of the current fiscal year. Trillion-dollar deficits aren't coming soon; they're already here.

It's no secret why. Over the past year, Republicans at the federal level have cut taxes while signing onto bipartisan deals to increase spending. They have made the deficit larger at nearly every turn, and there's no sign they plan to stop....


Is this a case of starve the beast or P. J. O'Rourke's "The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it."

DGUtley
09-21-2018, 11:29 AM
I hate them all. Starve the beast.

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 11:41 AM
Under Obama, many conservatives here complained about the debt/deficit, spending in a variety of sectors and most vocally, the costs associated with Obama's golf/travel etc...

Those who complained the loudest are now silent on the issue. They've applied a double standard...particularly when it comes to the costs associated with travel, golf, etc...

DGUtley
09-21-2018, 12:04 PM
Under Obama, many conservatives here complained about the debt/deficit, spending in a variety of sectors and most vocally, the costs associated with Obama's golf/travel etc...

Those who complained the loudest are now silent on the issue. They've applied a double standard...particularly when it comes to the costs associated with travel, golf, etc...

I am not silent. I have written Twitter Beast 3 times. I have claimed. Some are silent. Not all. I have been beaten on the deficit my entire default life.

ripmeister
09-21-2018, 12:42 PM
I am not silent. I have written Twitter Beast 3 times. I have claimed. Some are silent. Not all. I have been beaten on the deficit my entire default life.
Having known DG for a number of years I will confirm this. He has consistently railed against deficit spending.

Private Pickle
09-21-2018, 12:43 PM
I hate them all. Starve the beast.
Meanwhile Trump is hated by both parties and is vilified by all. Wake up.

Captdon
09-21-2018, 12:47 PM
Under Obama, many conservatives here complained about the debt/deficit, spending in a variety of sectors and most vocally, the costs associated with Obama's golf/travel etc...

Those who complained the loudest are now silent on the issue. They've applied a double standard...particularly when it comes to the costs associated with travel, golf, etc...

Who's being quiet. We bitched in April and we're going to bitch now,

Trump signing this is a disgrace. Times are good. Why doe we need so much spending? Trump should veto this and not tinker around until Dec 3 and then tinker some more. Shut it down right now.

Hoosier8
09-21-2018, 01:11 PM
Trillion-Dollar Deficits Are Already Here. Thanks, Republicans! (http://reason.com/blog/2018/09/21/trillion-deficits-debt-republicans-trump)




Is this a case of starve the beast or P. J. O'Rourke's "The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it."
Record revenues. Don't expect democrats to fix the spending problems.

Chris
09-21-2018, 01:24 PM
Record revenues. Don't expect democrats to fix the spending problems.

Nor the Republicans.

Chris
09-21-2018, 01:28 PM
Meanwhile Trump is hated by both parties and is vilified by all. Wake up.

Welcome back, Private Pickle!!

Private Pickle
09-21-2018, 01:30 PM
Welcome back, @Private Pickle (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=615)!!

Thank you. Nothing like a year off to reinvigorate someone.

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 01:35 PM
I am not silent. I have written Twitter Beast 3 times. I have claimed. Some are silent. Not all. I have been beaten on the deficit my entire default life.




Who's being quiet. We bitched in April and we're going to bitch now,

Trump signing this is a disgrace. Times are good. Why doe we need so much spending? Trump should veto this and not tinker around until Dec 3 and then tinker some more. Shut it down right now.
I'm not accusing any individuals. I'm simply recalling several threads about it when Obama was president and a very select few under Trump.

Not nearly as significant, but telling none the less, is an absence of threads criticizing Trump for his travel/golf expenses.

I remember dozens of threads criticizing Obama for golfing and travel costs. Even Trump criticized Obama for it. Trump has outdone Obama and is costing taxpayers more for his travel and golf than his predecessor. Yet I don't recall seeing one thread about it. Essentially it means they didn't really care about Obama's travel costs...it was just something to use against him.

Chris
09-21-2018, 01:56 PM
Thank you. Nothing like a year off to reinvigorate someone.

Things have changed. And things have not changed. :blob1:

Chris
09-21-2018, 01:57 PM
I'm not accusing any individuals. I'm simply recalling several threads about it when Obama was president and a very select few under Trump.

Not nearly as significant, but telling none the less, is an absence of threads criticizing Trump for his travel/golf expenses.

I remember dozens of threads criticizing Obama for golfing and travel costs. Even Trump criticized Obama for it. Trump has outdone Obama and is costing taxpayers more for his travel and golf than his predecessor. Yet I don't recall seeing one thread about it. Essentially it means they didn't really care about Obama's travel costs...it was just something to use against him.


What you're seeing is perhaps the difference between conservatives and Republicans. Conservatives care about spending, Republicans about who's spending.

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 02:05 PM
What you're seeing is perhaps the difference between conservatives and Republicans. Conservatives care about spending, Republicans about who's spending.
That may be true, but I haven't seen threads from conservatives or republicans in regards to Trumps travel and golf expenses. I did see plenty of them about Obama.

Private Pickle
09-21-2018, 02:06 PM
Things have changed. And things have not changed. :blob1:

I can see that. Like I said I was bored.

Chris
09-21-2018, 02:08 PM
That may be true, but I haven't seen threads from conservatives or republicans in regards to Trumps travel and golf expenses. I did see plenty of them about Obama.

I saw a thread about Trump golfing just the other day.

ripmeister
09-21-2018, 02:16 PM
I saw a thread about Trump golfing just the other day.
That may have been the one I started about Trump cheating at golf, LOL!

Mini Me
09-21-2018, 03:50 PM
I hate them all. Starve the beast.

"They stab it with their steely knives, but cannot kill the beast" Hotel Califonia, The Eagles

Tahuyaman
09-21-2018, 04:20 PM
Of course when Obama threw away nearly a trillion dollars to pay back his big donors l, liberals cheered and said that is debt reduction.

Captdon
09-21-2018, 05:47 PM
Meanwhile Trump is hated by both parties and is vilified by all. Wake up.

His voters don't hate him in the least. Just being disappointed in one thing doesn't ruin him in out eyes. We aren't front runners. We admit Trump isn't perfect unlike the Obama Cultists.

Captdon
09-21-2018, 05:48 PM
Record revenues. Don't expect democrats to fix the spending problems.

Nobody is fixing the spending problem.

Captdon
09-21-2018, 05:51 PM
I like the British attitude-"The King is dead, Hail the king!"

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 05:57 PM
Under Obama, many conservatives here complained about the debt/deficit, spending in a variety of sectors and most vocally, the costs associated with Obama's golf/travel etc...

Those who complained the loudest are now silent on the issue. They've applied a double standard...particularly when it comes to the costs associated with travel, golf, etc...


And under Reagan and under Bush and under that Rapist and under Bush (see how the Rapist is the pervert between the Bushes?) and under the fascist muslim pig from Kenya and now under Trump.

But conservatives are smart enough to know who's in charge of the spending.

The Congress.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 05:59 PM
Meanwhile Trump is hated by both parties and is vilified by all. Wake up.

The AMERICANS don't hate Trump.

We love the guy.

It's Rodents we hate.

Because we weren't "woke" in 2016. We've never been asleep.

I haven't paid a lot of attention to this board, not in years and years. Are you some kind of Splinter-Up-The-Butt "moderate" secret Hillary supporter?

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 06:00 PM
And under Reagan and under Bush and under that Rapist and under Bush (see how the Rapist is the pervert between the Bushes?) and under the fascist muslim pig from Kenya and now under Trump.

But conservatives are smart enough to know who's in charge of the spending.

The Congress.

I appreciate the comic relief you bring to the site.

Tahuyaman
09-21-2018, 06:00 PM
When it comes to spending there’s a lot of hypocrisy on all sides. Everyone in Washington DC talks about how we need to control spending. I can’t remember the last time anyone supported any measure which even limited spending increases let alone cut spending.

Every time someone proposes to raise spending less than planned, Democrats portray that as “draconian cuts” and taking food from the mouths of the poor. So, a liberal carping about deficts and debt is ridiculous.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 06:03 PM
I'm not accusing any individuals. I'm simply recalling several threads about it when Obama was president and a very select few under Trump.

Not nearly as significant, but telling none the less, is an absence of threads criticizing Trump for his travel/golf expenses.

I remember dozens of threads criticizing Obama for golfing and travel costs. Even Trump criticized Obama for it. Trump has outdone Obama and is costing taxpayers more for his travel and golf than his predecessor. Yet I don't recall seeing one thread about it. Essentially it means they didn't really care about Obama's travel costs...it was just something to use against him.
Well, let's see if we can clear up your confusion.

That traitor Marxist muslim from Kenya....never attempted anything but betrayal, and he NEVER brought anything positive to show the Americans, so it's clear his trips and games were for his personal entertainment, not our advantage.

Obama IS a POS traitor, and always will be.

Trump is WINNING.

Why would anyone complain about minor expenses when the president is doing such an excellent job?

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 06:09 PM
Well, let's see if we can clear up your confusion.

That traitor Marxist muslim from Kenya....never attempted anything but betrayal, and he NEVER brought anything positive to show the Americans, so it's clear his trips and games were for his personal entertainment, not our advantage.

Obama IS a POS traitor, and always will be.

Trump is WINNING.

Why would anyone complain about minor expenses when the president is doing such an excellent job?

Is this some sort of performance art? A critique on hyper polarization and the perception that political rivals are unthinking cartoonish versions of exaggerated stereotypes?

Thought provoking.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 06:10 PM
When it comes to spending there’s a lot of hypocrisy on all sides. Everyone in Washington DC talks about how we need to control spending. I can’t remember the last time anyone supported any measure which even limited spending increases let alone cut spending.

Every time someone proposes to raise spending less than planned, Democrats portray that as “draconian cuts” and taking food from the mouths of the poor. So, a liberal carping about deficts and debt is ridiculous.

Any who?

Here's what needs to be eliminated from the federal budget because Congress does not have the authority under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution to regulate or finance them:

Education. At all levels. Only military trade schools would be allowed.

The Socialist Security Ponzi Scheme.

The various "welfare" scams, from AFDC to whatev.

Art. Freaking ART? Who thinks that's a properly authorized expenditure under the Constitution? HmmmM?

NPR, PBS. No way no how is that allowed.

The FCC. Nowhere in the Constitution is the government authorized to seize total control of a communications medium.

Health care. They had doctors in the 18th century. The Constitution did not allow Congress to fund them or regulate them.

Abortion. WTF is Congress doing MURDERING babies with our tax dollars? Not only is that not covered by Art. I, Section 8, it's forbidden by the Fifth Amendment.

Agriculture? The Constitution does not authorize Congress to regulate or subsidize FARMS, people.

Cut out the crap, and the national budget would show a massive surplus.

Private Pickle
09-21-2018, 06:18 PM
His voters don't hate him in the least. Just being disappointed in one thing doesn't ruin him in out eyes. We aren't front runners. We admit Trump isn't perfect unlike the Obama Cultists.
Wasn't ever my point. His voters are justified in voting for him was my point. Everyone hates him in Washington. That alone merits the votes he received. Meanwhile all those "anti-establishment" individuals rail against Trump while he is the very definition of anti-establishment.

Private Pickle
09-21-2018, 06:20 PM
The AMERICANS don't hate Trump.

We love the guy.

It's Rodents we hate.

Because we weren't "woke" in 2016. We've never been asleep.

I haven't paid a lot of attention to this board, not in years and years. Are you some kind of Splinter-Up-The-Butt "moderate" secret Hillary supporter?

Only I didn't say Americans hate Trump. I said he is hated by both PARTIES. I don't equate political parties with Americans as many do...

Tahuyaman
09-21-2018, 06:45 PM
There are a lot of things which need to be eliminated from the federal budget. That’s not the point.

Tahuyaman
09-21-2018, 06:49 PM
Only I didn't say Americans hate Trump. I said he is hated by both PARTIES. I don't equate political parties with Americans as many do... It’s obvious that the political establishment resents the fact that Trump was elected.

They view their mission now to show anyone else who’s not an establishment type that if you even entertain running for President, they will do what they can to destroy your life as you know it.

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 07:13 PM
It’s obvious that the political establishment resents the fact that Trump was elected.

They view their mission now to show anyone else who’s not an establishment type that if you even entertain running for President, they will do what they can to destroy your life as you know it.

Or they simply see Trump as an incompetent buffoon who is helping destroy the Republican Party and damaging the country.

...but it's probably just a deep state thing.

Captdon
09-21-2018, 07:18 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Private Pickle http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2425966#post2425966)
Meanwhile Trump is hated by both parties and is vilified by all. Wake up.


Wasn't ever my point. His voters are justified in voting for him was my point. Everyone hates him in Washington. That alone merits the votes he received. Meanwhile all those "anti-establishment" individuals rail against Trump while he is the very definition of anti-establishment.

You didn't make that very clear.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 07:21 PM
Is this some sort of performance art? A critique on hyper polarization and the perception that political rivals are unthinking cartoonish versions of exaggerated stereotypes?

Thought provoking.

Rodents aren't cartoons.

Jessica Rabbit wasn't evil, she was just drawn bad.

Rodents are vermin.

Oh, and rabbits aren't rodents, they're lagomorphs.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 07:23 PM
Wasn't ever my point. His voters are justified in voting for him was my point. Everyone hates him in Washington. That alone merits the votes he received. Meanwhile all those "anti-establishment" individuals rail against Trump while he is the very definition of anti-establishment.


Anti-establishment.

Yeah. And the pro-fascist fascist group Aunty-Fa calls itself anti-fascist because?

Because there are no "truth in advertising" laws in politics.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 07:26 PM
Only I didn't say Americans hate Trump. I said he is hated by both PARTIES. I don't equate political parties with Americans as many do...


I do.

NO ONE can be both a Democrat voter (Rodent) AND an American.

NO ONE can be a socialist AND an American.

And we even have to question the credentials of all the people of Arizona that put that scum-tanker-truck traitor McStain in the Senate and kept him there, term after term after term.

DGUtley
09-21-2018, 07:27 PM
Meanwhile Trump is hated by both parties and is vilified by all. Wake up.
Private Pickle !!!!

Trish
09-21-2018, 07:28 PM
The Republicans are getting ready to cut medicare and medicaid. That may wipe out a huge faction of Mr. Trump supporters who still believe he's working to help them. We'll just have to wait and see how the little guy fairs.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 07:29 PM
There are a lot of things which need to be eliminated from the federal budget. That’s not the point.

Eliminated, not reduced.

And the point is that Trump has to play the political game and choose the battles that he can win, and fight those, and minimize the effects of the battles he can't win.

Budget battles seven weeks before an administration-breaking midterm election is not the time to climb on the Spartacus Wagon and die gloriously.

We'll leave that crap for morons like Booker.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 07:31 PM
The Republicans are getting ready to cut medicare and medicaid. That may wipe out a huge faction of Mr. Trump supporters who still believe he's working to help them. We'll just have to wait and see how the little guy fairs.

Both budgets could be cut in half and services still improved.

No services to illegal aliens.

Prosecute, VIOLENTLY, waste fraud and abuse.

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 07:34 PM
Rodents aren't cartoons.

Jessica Rabbit wasn't evil, she was just drawn bad.

Rodents are vermin.

Oh, and rabbits aren't rodents, they're lagomorphs.


I was referring to your posting as a partisan unthinking stereotype of an ignorant right wing cartoon character. It's a bit exaggerated, but funny none the less.

The rodent shtick is a bit repetitive, but otherwise is a great character.

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 07:37 PM
The Republicans are getting ready to cut medicare and medicaid. That may wipe out a huge faction of Mr. Trump supporters who still believe he's working to help them. We'll just have to wait and see how the little guy fairs.

I doubt they would be dumb enough to do that. Clearly there are the moronic ideologues who would support it, but fortunately there are actual adults in the Rep party as well as the nuts.

Trish
09-21-2018, 07:41 PM
I doubt they would be dumb enough to do that. Clearly there are the moronic ideologues who would support it, but fortunately there are actual adults in the Rep party as well as the nuts.

Which ones do you consider the adults?

Personally I am hoping they do cut medicare and medicaid. Why am I paying for old people's insurance? They should have prepared better. If they can't pay then that's on them NOT me. I take care of my family so maybe their families need to step up and take care of dear old mom and dad.

This also goes for SS. They did NOT put in enough to sustain them for how long they are living. They are drawing from the money I am putting into the system. That's my money not theirs.

Chris
09-21-2018, 07:52 PM
The Republicans are getting ready to cut medicare and medicaid. That may wipe out a huge faction of Mr. Trump supporters who still believe he's working to help them. We'll just have to wait and see how the little guy fairs.

It's likely just talk.

Trish
09-21-2018, 07:53 PM
It's likely just talk.

I hope not.

Chris
09-21-2018, 07:53 PM
I doubt they would be dumb enough to do that. Clearly there are the moronic ideologues who would support it, but fortunately there are actual adults in the Rep party as well as the nuts.

There's probably some adult Democrats, though during the Kavanaugh hearing we haven't seen any.

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 08:04 PM
Which ones do you consider the adults?

Personally I am hoping they do cut medicare and medicaid. Why am I paying for old people's insurance? They should have prepared better. If they can't pay then that's on them NOT me. I take care of my family so maybe their families need to step up and take care of dear old mom and dad.

This also goes for SS. They did NOT put in enough to sustain them for how long they are living. They are drawing from the money I am putting into the system. That's my money not theirs.
Yeah, fuck those old greedy bastards.

Chris
09-21-2018, 08:07 PM
Which ones do you consider the adults?

Personally I am hoping they do cut medicare and medicaid. Why am I paying for old people's insurance? They should have prepared better. If they can't pay then that's on them NOT me. I take care of my family so maybe their families need to step up and take care of dear old mom and dad.

This also goes for SS. They did NOT put in enough to sustain them for how long they are living. They are drawing from the money I am putting into the system. That's my money not theirs.


Remember, it's a ponzi scheme. What you pay in will be returned when you retire. Provided the damned government doesn't go broke.

Trish
09-21-2018, 08:07 PM
Yeah, $#@! those old greedy $#@!s.

Well I do lean republican on some issues.......

My point, albeit harsh, is Mr. Trump supporters love him taking away from others but become upset when they may have their freebies dipped into.

Trish
09-21-2018, 08:14 PM
Remember, it's a ponzi scheme. What you pay in will be returned when you retire. Provided the damned government doesn't go broke.

I agree it's a ponzi scheme. I don't want to wait around to find out whether my money will be there when I need it.

But most of all it burns me up that I'm supporting people who are ungrateful and enjoy making sure others less fortunate don't get help while they take as much as they can get.

Chris
09-21-2018, 08:21 PM
I agree it's a ponzi scheme. I don't want to wait around to find out whether my money will be there when I need it.

But most of all it burns me up that I'm supporting people who are ungrateful and enjoy making sure others less fortunate don't get help while they take as much as they can get.


I recall the conservative proposal was for letting people opt out and save for retirement on their own. Liberals shot that down.

Common Sense
09-21-2018, 08:24 PM
I agree it's a ponzi scheme. I don't want to wait around to find out whether my money will be there when I need it.

But most of all it burns me up that I'm supporting people who are ungrateful and enjoy making sure others less fortunate don't get help while they take as much as they can get.
Some old folks like to gobble up all the chemotherapy and knee replacements they can, just so you can't.

Trish
09-21-2018, 08:25 PM
I recall the conservative proposal was for letting people opt out and save for retirement on their own. Liberals shot that down.

And since then, how many times have the republicans been in charge? The great thing is they're in charge now and can do what they wanted so many years ago.

I wish they'd do it.

Chris
09-21-2018, 08:27 PM
And since then, how many times have the republicans been in charge? The great thing is they're in charge now and can do what they wanted so many years ago.

I wish they'd do it.


I haven't counted.

And I said conservatives, not Republicans. The theme of this thread has been conservatives criticizing Republicans for profligate spending. Conservative, Republicans, not the same thing.

Trish
09-21-2018, 08:28 PM
I haven't counted.

And I said conservatives, not Republicans. The theme of this thread has been conservatives criticizing Republicans for profligate spending. Conservative, Republicans, not the same thing.

I stand corrected.

Tahuyaman
09-21-2018, 08:28 PM
There are a lot of things which need to be eliminated from the federal budget. That’s not the point.


Eliminated, not reduced..... That’s what I said. .

Chris
09-21-2018, 08:31 PM
I stand corrected.

No worries. But conservatives are probably in the minority in the Rep Party. The establishment Reps are too used to giving in to Dems.

Tahuyaman
09-21-2018, 08:53 PM
I haven't counted.

And I said conservatives, not Republicans. The theme of this thread has been conservatives criticizing Republicans for profligate spending. Conservative, Republicans, not the same thing.
Maybe a third of the Republicans are actual conservatives.

Tahuyaman
09-21-2018, 08:56 PM
Or they simply see Trump as an incompetent buffoon who is helping destroy the Republican Party and damaging the country.

...but it's probably just a deep state thing.

It’s a political establishment thing. If one of the establishment Republicans had been elected and accomplished the same things Trump has accomplished, they’d be ecstatic.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 09:14 PM
I was referring to your posting as a partisan unthinking stereotype of an ignorant right wing cartoon character. It's a bit exaggerated, but funny none the less.

The rodent shtick is a bit repetitive, but otherwise is a great character.


You have a problem discerning real Americans, I see.

I am a most definitely THINKING libertarian, and totally unstereotypical.

And most definitely not ignorant.

Ignorance is reserved for the morons that vote Rodent and want socialism.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 09:16 PM
And since then, how many times have the republicans been in charge? The great thing is they're in charge now and can do what they wanted so many years ago.

I wish they'd do it.


Don't have the votes in the Senate.

I do hope Bitch McConnell wakes up and nukes the filibuster next term. He'll have a stronger majority then, too.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 09:17 PM
. That’s what I said. .

Oh, okay. My bad.

Tahuyaman
09-21-2018, 09:30 PM
Don't have the votes in the Senate.

I do hope $#@! McConnell wakes up and nukes the filibuster next term. He'll have a stronger majority then, too.
McConnell has no balls.

Sergeant Gleed
09-21-2018, 09:37 PM
McConnell has no balls.

I'll type it slow...

Goooorrrrrrrssssssuuuuuchhhhhh!

Got it?

Tahuyaman
09-22-2018, 01:05 AM
I'll type it slow...

Goooorrrrrrrssssssuuuuuchhhhhh!

Got it?

One time.

Chris
09-22-2018, 08:58 AM
Maybe a third of the Republicans are actual conservatives.

On a good day.

Captdon
09-22-2018, 09:00 AM
The Republicans are getting ready to cut medicare and medicaid. That may wipe out a huge faction of Mr. Trump supporters who still believe he's working to help them. We'll just have to wait and see how the little guy fairs.

No, Trish, they are not. that's something that has been going around for years. Trump has already made that a no touch item. you also don't piss of 70 million voters.

Captdon
09-22-2018, 09:08 AM
Which ones do you consider the adults?

Personally I am hoping they do cut medicare and medicaid. Why am I paying for old people's insurance? They should have prepared better. If they can't pay then that's on them NOT me. I take care of my family so maybe their families need to step up and take care of dear old mom and dad.

This also goes for SS. They did NOT put in enough to sustain them for how long they are living. They are drawing from the money I am putting into the system. That's my money not theirs.

I paid for it. Give me my money back at interest. I paid enough in at 3% to get three times what I'm getting.

I do want the welfare programs ended. All of them; for everybody. That's my money being stolen.I want the student loan program ended. They usually don't get paid back. End it.

I want the Interstate program stopped. The 90% the feds pay is stolen from me. To hell with travelers. They aren't mu problem. While we're at it- the CS shouldn't respond to emergency calls. Not our problem. Let them drown.

Tahuyaman
09-22-2018, 09:57 AM
No, Trish, they are not. that's something that has been going around for years. Trump has already made that a no touch item. you also don't piss of 70 million voters.
The Obama administration and the Democrats cut Medicare by nearly one trillion dollars to help fund the ACA.

Private Pickle
09-22-2018, 01:01 PM
I do.

NO ONE can be both a Democrat voter (Rodent) AND an American.

NO ONE can be a socialist AND an American.

And we even have to question the credentials of all the people of Arizona that put that scum-tanker-truck traitor McStain in the Senate and kept him there, term after term after term.
A Constitutional scholar you are not.

Captdon
09-22-2018, 03:43 PM
Or they simply see Trump as an incompetent buffoon who is helping destroy the Republican Party and damaging the country.

...but it's probably just a deep state thing.

Do you get the news up there? You see the economy going over the top? Did you miss that?

Captdon
09-22-2018, 03:47 PM
The Obama administration and the Democrats cut Medicare by nearly one trillion dollars to help fund the ACA.

Stole the money. Be precise.

Captdon
09-22-2018, 03:52 PM
You have a problem discerning real Americans, I see.

I am a most definitely THINKING libertarian, and totally unstereotypical.

And most definitely not ignorant.

Ignorance is reserved for the morons that vote Rodent and want socialism.

I hope no one thinks you on the "right." You embarrass yourself with each post. You have to have some facts and some debating. I'll go toe to toe with someone I think is wrong as well as snark. All you do is snark. You need to back up some things with facts. No, you don't have to but it would help you.

There are people here who really hate my snarking but they also know I'll debate them.

Do as you please, of course.

Captdon
09-22-2018, 03:59 PM
I do.

NO ONE can be both a Democrat voter (Rodent) AND an American.

NO ONE can be a socialist AND an American.

And we even have to question the credentials of all the people of Arizona that put that scum-tanker-truck traitor McStain in the Senate and kept him there, term after term after term.

Absurd. I don't have any use for Dems or socialists but they are Americans. Not good one but Americans none the less.

Who the people of Arizona elect is their business.

The rodent thing is worn out. McStain isn't even clever.

What I'm trying to tell you is that you are not very good at this type of thing. Most of the snarking you do is second rate. I try to ignore you but there you are stealing our material and still getting it wrong.

Ethereal
09-23-2018, 07:12 AM
Under Obama, many conservatives here complained about the debt/deficit, spending in a variety of sectors and most vocally, the costs associated with Obama's golf/travel etc...

Those who complained the loudest are now silent on the issue. They've applied a double standard...particularly when it comes to the costs associated with travel, golf, etc...
That, or they issue a token objection or two that is supposed to make them look consistent. But in order for them to actually be consistent, they would have to issue those objections with the same vehemence and frequency with which they issued them during Obama's presidency. Thus far, they've not even come close to achieving parity with their past behavior.

Ethereal
09-23-2018, 07:17 AM
Having known DG for a number of years I will confirm this. He has consistently railed against deficit spending.

And yet he will continue to support, defend, donate to and vote for Trump and Republicans, despite the fact that they are piling on the deficits and the debts.

Put another way, actions speak louder than words.

Ethereal
09-23-2018, 07:17 AM
Meanwhile Trump is hated by both parties and is vilified by all. Wake up.

Yo dude... you back?

Ethereal
09-23-2018, 07:22 AM
Wasn't ever my point. His voters are justified in voting for him was my point. Everyone hates him in Washington. That alone merits the votes he received. Meanwhile all those "anti-establishment" individuals rail against Trump while he is the very definition of anti-establishment.
Maybe he used to be anti-establishment, but that is no longer the case in my opinion.

He is continuing all the worst policies of the establishment. On foreign policy in particular, he is doing all the things Hillary Clinton promises to do: Provoke Russia, involve ourselves more in the Syrian quagmire, kiss Israel's ass, etc.

Captdon
09-23-2018, 07:25 AM
And yet he will continue to support, defend, donate to and vote for Trump and Republicans, despite the fact that they are piling on the deficits and the debts.

Put another way, actions speak louder than words.

You'd rather see Bernie Sanders in power.You're a real champ.

Ethereal
09-23-2018, 07:26 AM
...but it's probably just a deep state thing.

It is. There is a deep state (a permanent, unelected power structure veiled in secrecy) and it was opposed Trump from the very beginning. However, they've increasingly managed to co-opt his presidency, just like they did to virtually every president in modern history.

Captdon
09-23-2018, 07:28 AM
Maybe he used to be anti-establishment, but that is no longer the case in my opinion.

He is continuing all the worst policies of the establishment. On foreign policy in particular, he is doing all the things Hillary Clinton promises to do: Provoke Russia, involve ourselves more in the Syrian quagmire, kiss Israel's ass, etc.

Goofball thinking. Foreign policy is not the end all, be all. I love my freedoms too. You'd give that up for foreign policy. You'd give up the great economy for it. You'd give up deregulation for it.

You are a one-trick pony and the only talent that pony has is to crap on people.

Ethereal
09-23-2018, 07:29 AM
The Republicans are getting ready to cut medicare and medicaid. That may wipe out a huge faction of Mr. Trump supporters who still believe he's working to help them. We'll just have to wait and see how the little guy fairs.
I doubt they will actually cut any spending - at least, to any significant degree.

That said, IF they do decide to cut spending, you can bet it will come in the form of cutting spending on the poor, the sick, and the elderly. And they will do this despite the fact that the US government is wasting trillions of dollars on a bloated military empire that does nothing but destabilize the world.

Ethereal
09-23-2018, 07:31 AM
I doubt they would be dumb enough to do that. Clearly there are the moronic ideologues who would support it, but fortunately there are actual adults in the Rep party as well as the nuts.
Wow. So cutting spending on entitlement programs that are clearly unsustainable is moronic? There is no way to do it responsibly or intelligently?

Ethereal
09-23-2018, 07:38 AM
Which ones do you consider the adults?

Personally I am hoping they do cut medicare and medicaid. Why am I paying for old people's insurance? They should have prepared better. If they can't pay then that's on them NOT me. I take care of my family so maybe their families need to step up and take care of dear old mom and dad.

This also goes for SS. They did NOT put in enough to sustain them for how long they are living. They are drawing from the money I am putting into the system. That's my money not theirs.
As much as I agree with the sentiment you've just expressed, I cannot support selective cutting of spending targeted at the most vulnerable members of our society. Not that I'm accusing you of being selective, but if the Republican party gets to decide the manner in which government spending is reduced, they will do it in a way that targets the poor, the sick, and the elderly. Mostly the poor though. Meanwhile, they will continue wasting trillions of dollars on a bloated, decaying empire that mainly serves the interests of the military-industrial complex. I find that unacceptable. If we're going to reduce government spending, then we should start with the most wasteful and damaging aspect of that spending, the US empire.

Ethereal
09-23-2018, 07:40 AM
Yeah, $#@! those old greedy $#@!s.
Way to completely sidestep her argument. Just curious: Is there any opinion other than your own that you are willing to seriously consider and respond to thoughtfully?

Common Sense
09-23-2018, 01:16 PM
Way to completely sidestep her argument. Just curious: Is there any opinion other than your own that you are willing to seriously consider and respond to thoughtfully?

Yes.

Private Pickle
09-23-2018, 01:48 PM
Yo dude... you back?
Hey homie. For the time being. Until my BS meter reads full I suppose.

Private Pickle
09-23-2018, 01:50 PM
Maybe he used to be anti-establishment, but that is no longer the case in my opinion.

He is continuing all the worst policies of the establishment. On foreign policy in particular, he is doing all the things Hillary Clinton promises to do: Provoke Russia, involve ourselves more in the Syrian quagmire, kiss Israel's ass, etc.
I think the establishment is forcing him into policies he doesn't agree with and to be honest it seems he is being forced into policies he doesn't even know exist. The tail is wagging the dog on a lot of these things and the NY Times and Woodward book point to that.

barb012
09-23-2018, 01:57 PM
We can cut spending by stopping all of these phony investigations of the President and Kavanaugh and all others that the Democrats are using to spend all of our money. We can deport all of the illegals here that we are paying for their healthcare insurance and food stamps.

ripmeister
09-24-2018, 01:53 PM
And yet he will continue to support, defend, donate to and vote for Trump and Republicans, despite the fact that they are piling on the deficits and the debts.

Put another way, actions speak louder than words.
Fair point.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 03:36 PM
Neither Democrats or Republicans have any credibility when it comes to the issue of reducing debt. Only a mindless partisan hack can’t recognize that.

Anyone who blames exclusively Democrats or Republicans is a freaking partisan hack. There's no valid argument to oppose that view.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 03:39 PM
We can cut spending by stopping all of these phony investigations of the President and Kavanaugh and all others that the Democrats are using to spend all of our money. We can deport all of the illegals here that we are paying for their healthcare insurance and food stamps.
We can get debt under control by simply limiting spending increases to the rate of inflation.

donttread
09-24-2018, 04:02 PM
Trillion-Dollar Deficits Are Already Here. Thanks, Republicans! (http://reason.com/blog/2018/09/21/trillion-deficits-debt-republicans-trump)




Is this a case of starve the beast or P. J. O'Rourke's "The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it."

One major party which can fuck up constantly and still get 95% of the votes despite approval ratings of half that. But this is why I have held back about Trump. I wanted to see what he did with the deficit and debt. Turns out his vaunted tax cuts were made on credit cards.
Will we ever judge them collectively for their abject failure of the people?

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 04:03 PM
I think the establishment is forcing him into policies he doesn't agree with and to be honest it seems he is being forced into policies he doesn't even know exist. The tail is wagging the dog on a lot of these things and the NY Times and Woodward book point to that.

The investigations aren't forcing Trump to do anything he doesn't want to do. He's supporting increased spending on the things he claimed to support during his campaign, mostly defense.

donttread
09-24-2018, 04:05 PM
I hate them all. Starve the beast.

10% across the board cuts until the budget is balanced and we can start paying down the debt. Remember the "scalpel not the hatchet"? The scalpel failed. Also there is no federal program that cannot handle several ten percent cuts. Medicare and SS would be exempt because that was ear marked money.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 04:06 PM
One major party which can $#@! up constantly and still get 95% of the votes despite approval ratings of half that. But this is why I have held back about Trump. I wanted to see what he did with the deficit and debt. Turns out his vaunted tax cuts were made on credit cards.
Will we ever judge them collectively for their abject failure of the people?


Cuts in tax rates generally if not always result in increased revenues flowing in to government. Cuts in tax rates don't need to be paid for. What's needed is to resist the urge to rause soending at a rate greater than the revenue increase.

Private Pickle
09-24-2018, 04:30 PM
The investigations aren't forcing Trump to do anything he doesn't want to do. He's supporting increased spending on the things he claimed to support during his campaign, mostly defense.

I'm talking about those within the administration.

Chris
09-24-2018, 05:42 PM
Saving the Republican Congress (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/23/saving-the-republican-congress/)


Even at this late hour, Donald Trump can save the Republican Congress in November — if they want to be saved. To understand how, we need to rewind back to this time last year.

That’s when Donald Trump made one of the few policy mistakes of his young presidency by failing to veto the $1.3 trillion omnibus spending bill. One of the Republican Congress‘ biggest mistakes was sending him that bloated appropriations bill in the first place. It has only demoralized the conservative Trump voters — the same group that hasn’t been showing up in special election races this year.

These runaway all-in-one spending bills have left a wake of trillion-dollar deficits and have only reinforced the antipathy that conservatives feel toward Republicans in the upcoming midterm elections. Instead of buying votes, the lack of spending discipline by the Republican Congress has only reinforced a suspicion by voters that it doesn’t really matter who’s in charge: The budget keeps flying into the stratosphere.

In private, Mr. Trump has told his staffers that he wished he had vetoed that oinker bill last year, and he’s right to feel like he got his wallet pick-pocketed. But now he will have a chance to redeem himself.

In a few weeks Congress will again send to the White House a near $1 trillion bill that perpetuates the billions of dollars of deficit spending each day.

Hoosier8
09-24-2018, 05:44 PM
Under Obama, many conservatives here complained about the debt/deficit, spending in a variety of sectors and most vocally, the costs associated with Obama's golf/travel etc...

Those who complained the loudest are now silent on the issue. They've applied a double standard...particularly when it comes to the costs associated with travel, golf, etc...
Silent? Nah. Record Federal Receipts. What we voted Trump in for. As you have seen, most of the republicans are just democrat light.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 05:54 PM
This morning I shaved off my beard, but I’m not ready to get my hair cut yet.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 05:55 PM
I'm talking about those within the administration.

still.... no.

Captdon
09-24-2018, 05:59 PM
We can get debt under control by simply limiting spending increases to the rate of inflation.

Limit spending to what is needed.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 06:01 PM
Limit spending to what is needed.
No. Limit it to the rate of inflation.

Captdon
09-24-2018, 06:02 PM
The investigations aren't forcing Trump to do anything he doesn't want to do. He's supporting increased spending on the things he claimed to support during his campaign, mostly defense.

But when does he get at the spending? i didn't vote for him to let things roll along. If he needs to shut the government down he should. The politics are over. He's won. Now he needs to go after the real problems in DC.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 06:11 PM
I didn’t vote for Trump, but he ran on a platform of restoring the military and that meant increasing defense spending.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 06:15 PM
Ethereal isn’t a partisan hack. He’s just a general malcontent. He’s opposed to anyone who is in the majority. He has no principles.

ripmeister
09-24-2018, 06:16 PM
Limit spending to what is needed.Therein lies the question. What is needed?

Chris
09-24-2018, 07:18 PM
Therein lies the question. What is needed?

More appropriate to ask, what's Constitutional?

Private Pickle
09-24-2018, 08:28 PM
still.... no.
They've admitted to doing so...so yes...

The Xl
09-24-2018, 08:30 PM
All of these assholes love to tax and inflate to get what they want. Left, right, same shit.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 11:12 PM
All of these $#@!s love to tax and inflate to get what they want. Left, right, same $#@!.
It’s not left and right. It’s Democrat and Republican.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 11:13 PM
They've admitted to doing so...so yes...
You don’t get it. Pay attention. I’ll teach you.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 11:16 PM
Limit spending to what is needed.

no. They will just say everything is needed. We need true conservatives in the congress in order to get spending under control. However most voters want the spending to continue as long as they think they are the beneficiaries.

Tahuyaman
09-24-2018, 11:18 PM
People complain about deficit spending, but they don’t tolerate restraints upon spending.

donttread
09-25-2018, 06:39 AM
It’s not left and right. It’s Democrat and Republican.

Different in rhetoric, very, very similar in actions.

donttread
09-25-2018, 06:42 AM
People complain about deficit spending, but they don’t tolerate restraints upon spending.


Yup. Nonetheless spending , deficits and debt must be reigned in. Ten percent across the board cuts, the " scalpel" has failed.

Ethereal
09-25-2018, 06:53 AM
Yes.
Well you'll have to make a list of what those opinions are because no one knows if you'll respond to someone's opinion with seriousness and thoughtfulness or if you'll just respond with flippancy and disdain like you did to Trish.

Chris
09-25-2018, 07:50 AM
Yup. Nonetheless spending , deficits and debt must be reigned in. Ten percent across the board cuts, the " scalpel" has failed.



The problem, as Fenno explains, is the following: "MCs [Members of Congress] have three goals: Re-election, power in Congress, and good public policy." In that order. See Fenno: Homestyle (http://wikisum.com/w/Fenno:_Homestyle).

Tahuyaman
09-25-2018, 10:32 AM
Different in rhetoric, very, very similar in actions.
Do you believe that just because someone identifies as a Republucan, they are on the right? That would be a false notion.

Tahuyaman
09-25-2018, 10:37 AM
Yup. Nonetheless spending , deficits and debt must be reigned in. Ten percent across the board cuts, the " scalpel" has failed.


Again, spending does not need to be cut. We just need to limit the increases to the rate of inflation. We will be fine if we can get to a place where spending does not rise more than the revenue increases.


No one will ever support or even advocate ten percent cuts across the board. It is best to propose something which actually has a chance of being passed.

Captdon
09-25-2018, 12:07 PM
No. Limit it to the rate of inflation.

Why? That makes the spending for welfare permanent. Odd stance.

Captdon
09-25-2018, 12:10 PM
Therein lies the question. What is needed?

Why do we have a Congress for? We need whatever we need. My wife spends what she needs for food. She doesn't spend a set amount. The government should determine how many people actually need help with food not, "here's the amount we are going to spend."

Captdon
09-25-2018, 12:13 PM
no. They will just say everything is needed. We need true conservatives in the congress in order to get spending under control. However most voters want the spending to continue as long as they think they are the beneficiaries.

I'm not going to cut something just to cut it. If we need so much for something that's what we need. That's good government.

Tahuyaman
09-25-2018, 12:17 PM
Why? That makes the spending for welfare permanent. Odd stance.

How do you figure that? How would putting limits on spending increases make a program permanent and unable to be eliminated?

Private Pickle
09-25-2018, 03:50 PM
You don’t get it. Pay attention. I’ll teach you.
Pass...

Tahuyaman
09-25-2018, 04:47 PM
Pass...
I know. To some, learning is unacceptable.

Private Pickle
09-25-2018, 05:23 PM
I know. To some, learning is unacceptable.
From you? Hard pass...

Tahuyaman
09-25-2018, 05:39 PM
From you? Hard pass...Again, I know. You don’t want to learn. That’s OK. It means nothing to me.

Captdon
09-25-2018, 05:45 PM
Again, spending does not need to be cut. We just need to limit the increases to the rate of inflation. We will be fine if we can get to a place where spending does not rise more than the revenue increases.


No one will ever support or even advocate ten percent cuts across the board. It is best to propose something which actually has a chance of being passed.

And the debt doesn't matter?

Tahuyaman
09-25-2018, 05:51 PM
And the debt doesn't matter?
Where did I say that?

I said that debt can be gotten under control and even reduced if we limited spending increases to the rate of inflation.

Cutting spending 10% across the board is a non starter. Why even advocate such an unrealistic position?

Captdon
09-25-2018, 05:52 PM
How do you figure that? How would putting limits on spending increases make a program permanent and unable to be eliminated?

You are saying limit it to the rate of inflation. How does that cit spending? We can't do it now so how would a limit of inflation do it? Good government spends what is needed.

SC spends what is needed and then decides how to raise or lower taxes. Yes, we have lowered taxes at times. My county passes a budget of what we need and then adjust taxes. If a new "thing" is needed we vote on a new tax or we don't do it.

How is what you are calling fro better than that?

donttread
09-25-2018, 06:08 PM
The problem, as Fenno explains, is the following: "MCs [Members of Congress] have three goals: Re-election, power in Congress, and good public policy." In that order. See Fenno: Homestyle (http://wikisum.com/w/Fenno:_Homestyle).

Not so sure about that last one

donttread
09-25-2018, 06:12 PM
Do you believe that just because someone identifies as a Republucan, they are on the right? That would be a false notion.

Right , left, lib con. The terms have become meaningless. The constants are war, spending, deficits, debt, and controlism

donttread
09-25-2018, 06:15 PM
Again, spending does not need to be cut. We just need to limit the increases to the rate of inflation. We will be fine if we can get to a place where spending does not rise more than the revenue increases.


No one will ever support or even advocate ten percent cuts across the board. It is best to propose something which actually has a chance of being passed.


What do you mean spending does not need to be cut? Of course it does. If spending rises exactly the same a revenue we would be running constant deficits as we are already in the hole now.

Tahuyaman
09-25-2018, 06:17 PM
What do you mean spending does not need to be cut? Of course it does. If spending rises exactly the same a revenue we would be running constant deficits as we are already in the hole now.
It doesn't need to be cut. We need to have revenues outpace spending. We can can do that by limiting spending increases to the rate of inflation.

Tahuyaman
09-25-2018, 06:19 PM
You are saying limit it to the rate of inflation. How does that cit spending? We can't do it now so how would a limit of inflation do it? Good government spends what is needed.

SC spends what is needed and then decides how to raise or lower taxes. Yes, we have lowered taxes at times. My county passes a budget of what we need and then adjust taxes. If a new "thing" is needed we vote on a new tax or we don't do it.

How is what you are calling fro better than that?It doesn't cut spending. It ensures that revenues increase at a greater rate than spending. That would begin the reality of debt reduction.

Tahuyaman
09-25-2018, 06:20 PM
What do you mean spending does not need to be cut? Of course it does. If spending rises exactly the same a revenue we would be running constant deficits as we are already in the hole now. What makes you believe revenues can't outpace spending increases if we limit those increases?

donttread
09-26-2018, 06:40 AM
It doesn't need to be cut. We need to have revenues outpace spending. We can can do that by limiting spending increases to the rate of inflation.

Not unless revenue outpaces inflation dramatically. Your are going to need to give me a math based example. If revenue is currently X and spending is lets say X + 15% how in the world can we match the two without cutting or at least freezing spending? What will drive say 15% increases in revenue ABOVE inflation? Then there is the whole idea that government uses spending to be intrusive in our lives, states business and to bypass the Constitution.

Some real numbers and ways we are deceived. In 2016 my sources show expenditures of 3.853 trillion vs. revenues of 3.268 trillion for a deficit of 585 billion which means we out spent revenues by about 18%! Of course it's not reported that way . We report deficits compared to GNP which is a math trick. The bottom line is spending out stripped revenue by 18 freakin percent! That percentage will not go down with estimated 800,000,000,000 dollar shortfalls and with the potential trillion dollar deficit looming . So while limiting spending to the COL increase would decrease projected budget deficits it could not eliminate or even seriously impact the real numbers without truly massive increases in revenue ( above and beyond the COL)

Tahuyaman
09-26-2018, 08:54 AM
We will be fine if we can limit spending increases to allow revenues to consistently outpace spending.

Captdon
09-26-2018, 03:18 PM
Where did I say that?

I said that debt can be gotten under control and even reduced if we limited spending increases to the rate of inflation.

Cutting spending 10% across the board is a non starter. Why even advocate such an unrealistic position?

I don't advocate a 10% cut. You have me mixed up with someone else. I said we should spend what we need to spend. You want to give everything a raise to meet inflation. I want the food stamp program limited to those who need it Under your plan we would spend more and more on it.

Tahuyaman
09-26-2018, 03:31 PM
I don't advocate a 10% cut. You have me mixed up with someone else. I said we should spend what we need to spend. You want to give everything a raise to meet inflation. I want the food stamp program limited to those who need it Under your plan we would spend more and more on it.
What we "need" to spend can't be nailed down. What we need is an enforcable mechanism to limit soending increases in a way which ensure they don't our pace the increases in revenues.

Just because we develop a way to limit spending increases doesn't mean every program needs to expand. We still can look to eliminate redundant or unneeded programs.

donttread
09-26-2018, 08:25 PM
What makes you believe revenues can't outpace spending increases if we limit those increases?

We're out spending revenue by 18% as of 2016 and going up. What makes you think we can add that much revenue?

donttread
09-26-2018, 08:28 PM
We will be fine if we can limit spending increases to allow revenues to consistently outpace spending.

Where will the revenues come from?

Tahuyaman
09-26-2018, 09:00 PM
Where will the revenues come from?
The same place they come from now. How would limiting spending increases have a negative impact upon generating revenues?

Tahuyaman
09-26-2018, 09:02 PM
We're out spending revenue by 18% as of 2016 and going up. What makes you think we can add that much revenue?


Let's get more tax and regulatory reforms and realize even greater economic growth.

Orion Rules
09-26-2018, 10:28 PM
Posted in part by Captdon:

I don't advocate a 10% cut...[...]


We're out spending revenue by 18% as of 2016 and going up. What makes you think we can add that much revenue?

So, everyone is interested in revenues. But what of the transfer of real wealth on public lands? See @Freedom4Horses for tweets.

The President of the disunited states has had enough time in office to what is he doing about the other deep states? Knee-deep in blood is THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT.

Are these big enough letters yet? >THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT.

The President of the disunited states seems to have no real sense about anything other than what he seeks to propose for what he laments.

The most heinous crimes yet to be revealed of what has happened to AMERICA'S VERY OWN WILD HORSES that have been hunted down, impounded, sold, many shipped to slaughter, and that has been described as "management"! ?

donttread
09-27-2018, 05:01 AM
The same place they come from now. How would limiting spending increases have a negative impact upon generating revenues?


What? Here is the question. How would revenue be increased above the rate of inflation. If you limit spending increase to the rate of inflation , revenue increases based upon inflation would only keep pace with spending . Spending is already somewhere around 20% above revenue. Continuing that massive gap would be a disaster .

Here's an example :
Lets say the budget is 100 gizmos. We are currently spending 120 gizmos. Allowing spending to increase at the rate of inflation and assuming revenues raise by the same would still leave us 20 gizmos in the hole every year. In what world does that = "fine"? Although the percentage of over spending would shrink , the amount of over spending would not and due to the cost of interest to borrow 20 more gizmos each year less money would go to programs and actually running the country.
That is a lose/lose scenario.

Captdon
09-27-2018, 07:49 AM
What we "need" to spend can't be nailed down. What we need is an enforcable mechanism to limit soending increases in a way which ensure they don't our pace the increases in revenues.

Just because we develop a way to limit spending increases doesn't mean every program needs to expand. We still can look to eliminate redundant or unneeded programs.

Almost every state manages to spend what is needed. Why can't the federal government do it. If there are 5 people who need something the amount should be for 5 people. You want to spend money whether it's needed or not. I can't even understand that.

Chris
09-27-2018, 08:07 AM
The states are closer to and more answerable to the people.

Tahuyaman
09-27-2018, 09:57 AM
Almost every state manages to spend what is needed. Why can't the federal government do it. If there are 5 people who need something the amount should be for 5 people. You want to spend money whether it's needed or not. I can't even understand that.
You are stuck on this thing about spending what we need. How is that determined? Who determines what we need to spend? That is a moving target.

What we need is to spend less than we receive in revenues. I have no idea how you translate that to mean that I want to spend money whether it’s needed or not? I guess you are just failing to actually read my comments.

Tahuyaman
09-27-2018, 10:10 AM
The states are closer to and more answerable to the people.


That’s almost a clićhe. However States should be less beholding to the federal government. The federal government needs to understand that one size doesn’t fit all.

Tahuyaman
09-27-2018, 10:18 AM
What? Here is the question. How would revenue be increased above the rate of inflation. If you limit spending increase to the rate of inflation , revenue increases based upon inflation would only keep pace with spending . Spending is already somewhere around 20% above revenue. Continuing that massive gap would be a disaster .

Here's an example :
Lets say the budget is 100 gizmos. We are currently spending 120 gizmos. Allowing spending to increase at the rate of inflation and assuming revenues raise by the same would still leave us 20 gizmos in the hole every year. In what world does that = "fine"? Although the percentage of over spending would shrink , the amount of over spending would not and due to the cost of interest to borrow 20 more gizmos each year less money would go to programs and actually running the country.
That is a lose/lose scenario.

revenues through taxation is always greater than the rate of inflation. Revenues right now are at the highest level ever in history. A 30% increase over the last year recorded. The inflation rate isn’t 30%


Here’s the problem. Most people have no clue as to how an economy works. Then these people get elected and demonstrate their ignorance.

Tahuyaman
09-27-2018, 10:20 AM
Only someone completely clueless would argue against establishing an effective means to ensure government spends less than it takes in.

donttread
09-27-2018, 06:36 PM
revenues through taxation is always greater than the rate of inflation. Revenues right now are at the highest level ever in history. A 30% increase over the last year recorded. The inflation rate isn’t 30%


Here’s the problem. Most people have no clue as to how an economy works. Then these people get elected and demonstrate their ignorance.



30%? increase in revenues but a bigger deficit anyway? Sorry I don't buy that revenues were 30% increase in a year? Where are you getting such numbers? Oh right, from the government. Nuff said. Revenue doesn't just magically increase faster than the rate of inflation.

Also , yeah/no. According to the balance the tax revenue for :
Fiscal year 2016= 3.27 trillion
Fiscal year 2017= 3.32 trillion
Fiscal year 2018 =3.34 ( estimated )

If that's 30% it must be "common core math" at work. LOL

Captain Obvious
09-27-2018, 08:53 PM
Republicans have learned well from Democrats, it's the reason why also that the ACA is still in place.

Big government, buy the voting base.

http://southernagrarian.org/resources/memes/tumblr_ns8jwjE2vD1uaxri9o1_1280.jpg

Chris
09-27-2018, 09:59 PM
Republicans have learned well from Democrats, it's the reason why also that the ACA is still in place.

Big government, buy the voting base.

http://southernagrarian.org/resources/memes/tumblr_ns8jwjE2vD1uaxri9o1_1280.jpg


And the power corporations rent seek favors from with wealth.

Jets
09-28-2018, 08:05 AM
Deficit hawks and fiscal conservativism are nothing but rhetoric for the minority party to use to win the majority. Deficits only matter right before an election!

Captdon
09-28-2018, 09:59 AM
You are stuck on this thing about spending what we need. How is that determined? Who determines what we need to spend? That is a moving target.

What we need is to spend less than we receive in revenues. I have no idea how you translate that to mean that I want to spend money whether it’s needed or not? I guess you are just failing to actually read my comments.

I am reading them. I want to know why we can't spend what it needed instead of a set amount? You don't answer that.

If we take the amount expected and then decide what we need to spend we can cut spending. You're calling for an increase that cements what we spend revenues on.

Almost all states do it so why shouldn't the federal government do the same. My state has no debt.

Don't get so invested in your idea that you can't see anything but that. If you think your idea beats mine say how. I say it. You can't have any deficit under my idea. None.

Tahuyaman
09-28-2018, 10:42 AM
I am reading them. I want to know why we can't spend what it needed instead of a set amount? You don't answer that....


I won’t answer that because I never suggested any such thing. You are reading my comments and translating them in a weird way.

Tahuyaman
09-28-2018, 10:46 AM
It’s obvious that most listers here have no working knowledge of economics.

donttread
09-28-2018, 07:11 PM
Only someone completely clueless would argue against establishing an effective means to ensure government spends less than it takes in.


Or someone with you know , some debt to pay down?

donttread
09-28-2018, 07:11 PM
It’s obvious that most listers here have no working knowledge of economics.


I've seen no proof that you do. What about the non-existent 30% increase in revenue? I don't think you have commented on that yet?

Captdon
09-28-2018, 07:15 PM
I won’t answer that because I never suggested any such thing. You are reading my comments and translating them in a weird way.

If we are increasing by the rate of inflation we are spending more by a set amount. How is that not what you said?

Captain Obvious
09-28-2018, 07:41 PM
It’s obvious that most listers here have no working knowledge of economics.

Listeners?

It's the due course of democracy, Bernie Sanders plan - just give free shit and it will pay for itself.

As long as rich old white guys don't see a decline in their take, everything is cool.

Step right up, get yourself another big mug of stinking democracy/capitalism.

Tahuyaman
09-29-2018, 09:42 AM
Listeners?...Auto correct. Posters.

donttread
09-29-2018, 09:43 AM
Listeners?

It's the due course of democracy, Bernie Sanders plan - just give free shit and it will pay for itself.

As long as rich old white guys don't see a decline in their take, everything is cool.

Step right up, get yourself another big mug of stinking democracy/capitalism.

We practice neither. It a corporatist society where megacorps manipulate markets rather than compete within them

Tahuyaman
09-29-2018, 10:00 AM
I've seen no proof that you do. What about the non-existent 30% increase in revenue? I don't think you have commented on that yet?


You are completely clueless. You are only about class envy and punishing the wealthy.

You actually think the inflation rate rises as tax revenues increase.

When tax rate cuts are instituted and the economy grows at a much higher rate, revenues increase dramatically. That does not result in equal increases in the rate of inflation.

Too many people don’t know how an economy works, but what’s worse is that they don’t know that they don’t know.

Chris
09-29-2018, 10:09 AM
You are completely clueless. You are only about class envy and punishing the wealthy.

You actually think the inflation rate rises as tax revenues increase.

When tax rate cuts are instituted and the economy grows at a much higher rate, revenues increase dramatically. That does not result in equal increases in the rate of inflation.

Too many people don’t know how an economy works, but what’s worse is that they don’t know that they don’t know.


When tax rate cuts are instituted and the economy grows at a much higher rate, revenues increase dramatically. That does not result in equal increases in the rate of inflation.


Tax cuts should increase demand since people have more wealth to purchase goods and services. Whether that results in inflation or deflation depends on supply to meet demand.

Tahuyaman
09-29-2018, 10:41 AM
Tax cuts should increase demand since people have more wealth to purchase goods and services. Whether that results in inflation or deflation depends on supply to meet demand.

Inflation is not a result of cuts in tax rates and a growing economy which results in increased revenues flowing in to government.

When Ronald Reagan took office, the federal government took in about 450 billion dollars through the federal income tax. He was successful in getting his cuts in the tax rates and revenues doubled to just shy of one trillion dollars collected Through the same income tax. The inflation rate did not double. In fact the inflation rate started to decline from previous years.

If spending increases then would have been limited to the inflation rate, we would have completely eliminated the federal deficit and been able to start decreasing the national debt. Instead, the Congress went on a wild eyed soending spree raised spending at a rate much greater than increases in revenues.

Chris
09-29-2018, 10:45 AM
Inflation is not a result of cuts in tax rates and a growing economy which results in increased revenues flowing in to government.

When Ronald Reagan took office, the federal government took in about 450 billion dollars through the federal income tax. He was successful in getting his cuts in the tax rates and revenues doubled to just shy of one trillion dollars collected Through the same income tax. The inflation rate did not double. In fact the inflation rate started to decline from previous years.

If spending increases then would have been limited to the inflation rate, we would have completely eliminated the federal deficit and been able to start decreasing the national debt. Instead, the Congress went on a wild eyed soending spree raised spending at a rate much greater than increases in revenues.


Inflation occurs when supply doesn't meet demand and prices rise. Deflation the opposite.

Txes, cuts and increases, can affect that.

Tahuyaman
09-29-2018, 11:01 AM
Inflation occurs when supply doesn't meet demand and prices rise. Deflation the opposite.

Txes, cuts and increases, can affect that.
Inflation is more a result of increased debt and government just printing more money to cover that debt.

Chris
09-29-2018, 11:09 AM
Inflation is more a result of increased debt and government just printing more money to cover that debt.

Yes, there is that too.


One might say that caused by supply and demand is natural and that caused by debt and fiat money unnatural.

Tahuyaman
09-29-2018, 11:18 AM
Government meddling and increased debt causes inflation.