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DGUtley
11-03-2018, 01:54 PM
FBI Arrests Iraqi Refugee in Tucson for Building Car Bomb, Teaching Others. The FBI arrested 30-year-old Ahmad Suhad Ahmad in Tucson, Arizona, last week following a two-year investigation. According to the limited information contained in the two-page criminal complaint Ahmad had told a confidential source in December 2016 that he knew how to detonate a bomb using a cell phone -- a technique he said he learned during the war in Iraq.

https://www.scribd.com/document/392073278/Ahmad-Complaint

https://youtu.be/R_KKd_VHqEQ


24622

Common
11-03-2018, 02:14 PM
It never ends, let them all in YAY have a party

donttread
11-03-2018, 03:28 PM
FBI Arrests Iraqi Refugee in Tucson for Building Car Bomb, Teaching Others. The FBI arrested 30-year-old Ahmad Suhad Ahmad in Tucson, Arizona, last week following a two-year investigation. According to the limited information contained in the two-page criminal complaint Ahmad had told a confidential source in December 2016 that he knew how to detonate a bomb using a cell phone -- a technique he said he learned during the war in Iraq.

https://www.scribd.com/document/392073278/Ahmad-Complaint

https://youtu.be/R_KKd_VHqEQ


24622


A refugee from Iraq. Humm I wonder why people are fleeing Iraq. I'm mean starting in 2003 we were "welcomed as liberators.
This is a perfect example of the governments " unintended consequences" coming back to almost bite some innocent citizen in the ass. Or a total fabrication to keep the populace scared and "in line"

Abby08
11-03-2018, 04:05 PM
Which is why I say, no more refugees, no matter where from or, sob story.

They claim poverty, persecution, or, whatever, they fool everyone then, get here and commit crimes against us.

Tahuyaman
11-03-2018, 04:16 PM
We need to suspend or dramatically limit immigration for a period of time. We should not resume immigration until we are assured the immigrants we have let in are assimilated into our culture. We can no longer accept everyone upon demand.

Mister D
11-03-2018, 04:42 PM
It's interesting that our government would resort to torture, detention without trial and secret prisons before simply curtailing immigration from areas known to breed/harbor terrorists or severely limiting the immigration of Muslims.

Tahuyaman
11-03-2018, 05:00 PM
How does one know about these prisons if they are secret? Pilots of the black helicopters tell people?

Mister D
11-03-2018, 05:06 PM
How does one know about these prisons if they are secret? Pilots of the black helicopters tell people?

Partly because Bush admitted their existence in 2006. Idiot.

Tahuyaman
11-03-2018, 05:14 PM
Partly because Bush admitted their existence in 2006. Idiot.
Why the name calling? Did I call you any names?

Mister D
11-03-2018, 05:17 PM
Why the name calling? Did I call you any names?
You know what you did.

jet57
11-03-2018, 05:20 PM
FBI Arrests Iraqi Refugee in Tucson for Building Car Bomb, Teaching Others. The FBI arrested 30-year-old Ahmad Suhad Ahmad in Tucson, Arizona, last week following a two-year investigation. According to the limited information contained in the two-page criminal complaint Ahmad had told a confidential source in December 2016 that he knew how to detonate a bomb using a cell phone -- a technique he said he learned during the war in Iraq.

https://www.scribd.com/document/392073278/Ahmad-Complaint

https://youtu.be/R_KKd_VHqEQ


24622

Oh we have people like that and cells all over the country. But it's not just Middle Easterners either as we have been shown since the '96 Olympic bombing. What we also have is a very astute and careful set of intelligence people in our country. Busts like this are a good flare for others that we ARE watching.

Tahuyaman
11-03-2018, 05:23 PM
You know what you did.
I know that I didn’t call you any names.

Mister D
11-03-2018, 05:25 PM
I know that I didn’t call you any names.
But you know what you did and you got smacked for it. Move on.

Tahuyaman
11-03-2018, 05:25 PM
Oh we have people like that and cells all over the country. But it's not just Middle Easterners either as we have been shown since the '96 Olympic bombing. What we also have is a very astute and careful set of intelligence people in our country. Busts like this are a good flare for others that we ARE watching.
Correct, not all who are Muslim extremists are from the Middle East.

Tahuyaman
11-03-2018, 05:26 PM
But you know what you did and you got smacked for it. Move on.
I didn’t get smacked, you just resorted to name calling when you didn’t know what else to say.

MisterVeritis
11-03-2018, 05:57 PM
FBI Arrests Iraqi Refugee in Tucson for Building Car Bomb, Teaching Others. The FBI arrested 30-year-old Ahmad Suhad Ahmad in Tucson, Arizona, last week following a two-year investigation. According to the limited information contained in the two-page criminal complaint Ahmad had told a confidential source in December 2016 that he knew how to detonate a bomb using a cell phone -- a technique he said he learned during the war in Iraq.

https://www.scribd.com/document/392073278/Ahmad-Complaint

https://youtu.be/R_KKd_VHqEQ


24622
Waterboard him. Find out who he taught. Waterboard them. Find out who they talked to. Then throw them all into the ocean.

Tahuyaman
11-03-2018, 06:10 PM
Waterboard him. Find out who he taught. Waterboard them. Find out who they talked to. Then throw them all into the ocean.
I have no issue with waterboarding to get information which will help protect people. It’s effective, but it’s long term psychological impact is dramatically overstated.

MisterVeritis
11-03-2018, 06:55 PM
I have no issue with waterboarding to get information which will help protect people. It’s effective, but it’s long term psychological impact is dramatically overstated.
Throwing them in the ocean will resolve any long-term impacts.

donttread
11-03-2018, 07:06 PM
Which is why I say, no more refugees, no matter where from or, sob story.

They claim poverty, persecution, or, whatever, they fool everyone then, get here and commit crimes against us.


It's been proven that we cannot take in the world, as if it wasn't obvious enough. People are best helped as close to home as possible.

donttread
11-03-2018, 07:07 PM
I have no issue with waterboarding to get information which will help protect people. It’s effective, but it’s long term psychological impact is dramatically overstated.


I think we learned our lesson on that one.

donttread
11-03-2018, 07:14 PM
We need to suspend or dramatically limit immigration for a period of time. We should not resume immigration until we are assured the immigrants we have let in are assimilated into our culture. We can no longer accept everyone upon demand.


I predict before each election that nothing will really change immigration regardless of what the candidates say. Two years ago I predicted "no wall" at least no more wall.
Do you think a country of our stature cannot maintain it's borders if they wish? But here's the thing, illegal immigration brings cheap labor to businessmen, some of whom are connected to DC. At the other end of the spectrum we import talent while our kids can't get jobs in their field . Also driving down the cost companies pay for engineers and other technical positions.
So I agree with you. But the opinions that count to politicians don't.

Tahuyaman
11-03-2018, 08:03 PM
I think we learned our lesson on that one.
The lesson? Political correctness sometimes comes at the risk of saving lives.

Ethereal
11-03-2018, 11:19 PM
One has to wonder what kind of evil was visited upon him to cause him so much hatred for Americans.

I wonder if perhaps someone in his family was killed by the US invasion and occupation of Iraq. Certainly wouldn't surprise me, given how much destruction and death was visited upon Iraqis by the US government.

I know if someone killed my family, I'd want vengeance.

Or perhaps his hatred is the result of someone importing I-Phones into Iraq or something. Yeah, that's probably it.

Ethereal
11-03-2018, 11:22 PM
It's interesting that our government would resort to torture, detention without trial and secret prisons before simply curtailing immigration from areas known to breed/harbor terrorists or severely limiting the immigration of Muslims.
It's even more interesting that some continue to deny the primary role that such torture, detention, and secretive imprisonment plays in the creation of terrorists.

Mister D
11-03-2018, 11:24 PM
It's even more interesting that some continue to deny the primary role that such torture, detention, and secretive imprisonment plays in the creation of terrorists.

They wouldn't exist otherwise. Secret prisons that is.

Ethereal
11-03-2018, 11:24 PM
Waterboard him. Find out who he taught. Waterboard them. Find out who they talked to. Then throw them all into the ocean.
We're only a few more waterboardings and killings away from winning the war on terror.

Ethereal
11-03-2018, 11:28 PM
Throwing them in the ocean will resolve any long-term impacts.
Violence is your answer to everything. Doesn't seem to be working though. The US government has destroyed so many countries since 9/11 that I've lost count. Perhaps we just need to destroy a few more. Lord knows the arms manufacturers and big banks who finance the government are happy to facilitate.

Mister D
11-03-2018, 11:30 PM
One has to wonder what kind of evil was visited upon him to cause him so much hatred for Americans.

I wonder if perhaps someone in his family was killed by the US invasion and occupation of Iraq. Certainly wouldn't surprise me, given how much destruction and death was visited upon Iraqis by the US government.

I know if someone killed my family, I'd want vengeance.

Or perhaps his hatred is the result of someone importing I-Phones into Iraq or something. Yeah, that's probably it.

We wage ideological wars. We try to instill your liberal nonsense on a global scale.
But tell us more about the racist war mongering founders you love so much.

Mister D
11-03-2018, 11:31 PM
Violence is your answer to everything. Doesn't seem to be working though. The US government has destroyed so many countries since 9/11 that I've lost count. Perhaps we just need to destroy a few more. Lord knows the arms manufacturers and big banks who finance the government are happy to facilitate.

Sell them iPhones!

Ethereal
11-03-2018, 11:31 PM
They wouldn't exist otherwise. Secret prisons that is.

The US government has been torturing and murdering people long before Islamic terrorism became an issue for this country.

Mister D
11-03-2018, 11:35 PM
The US government has been torturing and murdering people long before Islamic terrorism became an issue for this country.

Yeah, the founders were monsters but we knew that.

Ethereal
11-03-2018, 11:39 PM
We wage ideological wars.

Right, because if the US government claims to fight for freedom and democracy, then it must be true. There is no way they are just lying in order to cover up an ulterior motive of some sort.


We try to instill your liberal nonsense on a global scale.

No, "we" do not. That is just propaganda meant for idiots.

But even if "we" did do that, I'm not sure what it's supposed to prove. Not once have I said the US government should be in the business of instilling my ideology around the globe. The US government should do only what the constitution authorizes it to do and nothing more.


But tell us more about the racist war mongering founders you love so much.

Well, that depends. Is this just another one of your increasingly desperate attempts to put me in my place or a genuine request for discussion of America's founders?

Ethereal
11-03-2018, 11:40 PM
Sell them iPhones!

I-Phones cause terrorism!

Ethereal
11-03-2018, 11:44 PM
Yeah, the founders were monsters but we knew that.

How many Islamic terrorist attacks happened on American soil when Thomas Jefferson was president?

Mister D
11-03-2018, 11:48 PM
Right, because if the US government claims to fight for freedom and democracy, then it must be true. There is no way they are just lying in order to cover up an ulterior motive of some sort.



No, "we" do not. That is just propaganda meant for idiots.

But even if "we" did do that, I'm not sure what it's supposed to prove. Not once have I said the US government should be in the business of instilling my ideology around the globe. The US government should do only what the constitution authorizes it to do and nothing more.



Well, that depends. Is this just another one of your increasingly desperate attempts to put me in my place or a genuine request for discussion of America's founders?

I'm right because occupying a country entails an expenditure of far more blood and treasure than your kooky delusions would allow for.

Yes, we do. This was obvious as early as WW1. If we want to critique US aggression you should probably understand it's nature.

No, it doesn't "depend". It's just embarrassing for you to admit.

Tahuyaman
11-03-2018, 11:50 PM
The blame America first crowd is in full force tonight.

Mister D
11-03-2018, 11:52 PM
How many Islamic terrorist attacks happened on American soil when Thomas Jefferson was president?

A better question might how many terrorist attacks did Americans perpetrate on racist, imperialist Jeffy's watch.

Mister D
11-03-2018, 11:54 PM
The blame America first crowd is in full force tonight.

Apparently, occupying Iraq was all a smokescreen. For what? Who the fuck knows.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:01 AM
I'm right because occupying a country entails an expenditure of far more blood and treasure than your kooky delusions would allow for.

The people who profit the most expend little to no blood or treasure. Welcome to reality.


Yes, we do. This was obvious as early as WW1. If we want to critique US aggression you should probably understand it's nature.

I do understand its nature, its true nature. It's about profiteering above all else. Ideological rhetoric is just propaganda meant for mass consumption by legions of dunces. Since when did you join their ranks?


No, it doesn't "depend". It's just embarrassing for you to admit.

We've had many discussions about the founders, their racism, and their treatment of indigenous peoples.

Tahuyaman
11-04-2018, 12:02 AM
The blame America first types always have some excuse. They are endless.

Mister D
11-04-2018, 12:03 AM
The blame America first crowd is in full force tonight.

This is a goofy neoconservative talking point. Ethereal's problem is that he doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand the nature of American hegemony.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:04 AM
A better question might how many terrorist attacks did Americans perpetrate on racist, imperialist Jeffy's watch.

Nice dodge.

You won't answer the question because it destroys your ludicrous premise.

The fact is, there were no Islamic terrorist attacks on American soil during Jefferson's presidency. Such a problem did not emerge until much, much later.

You refuse to even acknowledge this fact because it blows a giant hole in your iPhones cause terrorism narrative.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:06 AM
Apparently, occupying Iraq was all a smokescreen.

Yes, it was. That is incredibly obvious at this point. Only a total idiot would believe it was fought for freedom and democracy.


For what?

Money and power.


Who the $#@! knows.

Honest people, for starters.

Mister D
11-04-2018, 12:07 AM
The people who profit the most expend little to no blood or treasure. Welcome to reality.



I do understand its nature, its true nature. It's about profiteering above all else. Ideological rhetoric is just propaganda meant for mass consumption by legions of dunces. Since when did you join their ranks?



We've had many discussions about the founders, their racism, and their treatment of indigenous peoples.

The US government spends nothing on these ideological crusades. Right. It was strictly a war for oil motivated by greed but for some reason we stayed there for a decade. Makes sense now

Good evening.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:09 AM
This is a goofy neoconservative talking point. Ethereal's problem is that he doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand the nature of American hegemony.

The nature of US hegemony (not American) is militarist. It is so unbelievably obvious that only the most obtuse individuals could deny it.

Mister D
11-04-2018, 12:09 AM
Yes, it was. That is incredibly obvious at this point. Only a total idiot would believe it was fought for freedom and democracy.



Money and power.



Honest people, for starters.

Right. A decade long occupation was all a smokescreen. Uh huh

Mister D
11-04-2018, 12:13 AM
Nice dodge.

You won't answer the question because it destroys your ludicrous premise.

The fact is, there were no Islamic terrorist attacks on American soil during Jefferson's presidency. Such a problem did not emerge until much, much later.

You refuse to even acknowledge this fact because it blows a giant hole in your iPhones cause terrorism narrative.

It was a stupid question. How could 17th century Muslims attack the US? Injuns could though ...

You seem fixated on iPhones. This sort of everyone wants to be like me is the bedrock of US aggression.

Tahuyaman
11-04-2018, 12:16 AM
Wow.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:23 AM
The US government spends nothing on these ideological crusades. Right.

The US government steals the money from American taxpayers and then gives it to politically connected corporations like Lockheed Martin and Goldman Sachs. Again, welcome to reality.


It was strictly a war for oil motivated by greed but for some reason we stayed there for a decade. Makes sense now

Good evening.

All you have are strawmen. Can't you at least muster a halfway decent argument?

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:28 AM
Right. A decade long occupation was all a smokescreen. Uh huh

No, no, no. It was about freedom and democracy. The obscene amounts of taxpayer money being funneled to military contractors and big banks was just a happy coincidence.

Tahuyaman
11-04-2018, 12:30 AM
Its funny to watch who agree with each other argue about it anyway.

Mister D
11-04-2018, 12:32 AM
The US government steals the money from American taxpayers and then gives it to politically connected corporations like Lockheed Martin and Goldman Sachs. Again, welcome to reality.



All you have are strawmen. Can't you at least muster a halfway decent argument?

I agree with you. We occupied Iraq and tried to transform it into a liberal democracy precisely because there is no ideological component to US policy. It was decade long, extremely expensive but elaborate ruse. Makes perfect sense. The nefarious parties involved couldn't think of an easier way to achieve their aims. Totally plausible.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:33 AM
It was a stupid question. How could 17th century Muslims attack the US?

Are you actually trying to argue that the state of 18th and 19th century (Jefferson wasn't president in the 17th century) technology prevented Muslims from attacking Americans on American soil?


Injuns could though ...

The "Injuns" must have been attacking because of some vague ideological beef, though. Right? It had nothing to do with the invasion and occupation of their lands or anything...


You seem fixated on iPhones.

You seem fixated on liberalism.


This sort of everyone wants to be like me is the bedrock of US aggression.

I think you've had enough to drink for one evening.

Mister D
11-04-2018, 12:34 AM
Its funny to watch who agree with each other argue about it anyway.

We don't agree. That's why we're arguing. Did I refer to as an idiot earlier? That's because you are.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:42 AM
I agree with you. We occupied Iraq and tried to transform it into a liberal democracy precisely because there is no ideological component to US policy. It was decade long, extremely expensive but elaborate ruse. Makes perfect sense. The nefarious parties involved couldn't think of an easier way to achieve their aims. Totally plausible.

It wasn't expensive for the people who profited off it.

Mister D
11-04-2018, 12:44 AM
Are you actually trying to argue that the state of 18th and 19th century (Jefferson wasn't president in the 17th century) technology prevented Muslims from attacking Americans on American soil?



The "Injuns" must have been attacking because of some vague ideological beef, though. Right? It had nothing to do with the invasion and occupation of their lands or anything...



You seem fixated on liberalism.



I think you've had enough to drink for one evening.

I considered editing 17th Century but thought you weren't that desperate. Anyway, you could also ask why anarchists or communists didn't commit terrorist acts in Jeffy's time. It would make as much sense.

The appropriation of Indian land was also heavily ideological. Heard of Manifest Destiny?

I think you're trying too hard

Mister D
11-04-2018, 12:48 AM
It wasn't expensive for the people who profited off it.

Uh huh. No ideological component here folks. No less costly way of getting our way in Iraq.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:56 AM
I considered editing 17th Century but thought you weren't that desperate. Anyway, you could also ask why anarchists or communists didn't commit terrorist acts in Jeffy's time. It would make as much sense.

Once again, you dodged the question.

Do you think the state of technology during that time prevented Muslims from attacking Americans on American soil? Yes or no?


The appropriation of Indian land was also heavily ideological. Heard of Manifest Destiny?

That doesn't change the fact that native resentment of Europeans was caused by the latter's invasion and occupation of native lands. For some reason, people tend to react very negatively when foreigners start destroying and stealing their ancestral homeland.


I think you're trying too hard

I think you're not trying hard enough.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 12:58 AM
Uh huh. No ideological component here folks. No less costly way of getting our way in Iraq.

Again, it wasn't costly to the people who profited the most from the war. What about that do you find so confusing? Do you understand how a racket works?

Orion Rules
11-04-2018, 01:07 AM
It's even more interesting that some continue to deny the primary role that such torture, detention, and secretive imprisonment plays in the creation of terrorists.

You are trying to place an overall barbaric religion and make it have something to do with enlightenment.

Ethereal
11-04-2018, 01:11 AM
You are trying to place an overall barbaric religion and make it have something to do with enlightenment.

I am trying to point out how the US government's decades of violent imperialism have caused blowback in the form of terrorism. Among people who actually study this kind of thing, it's not particularly controversial.

Orion Rules
11-04-2018, 01:24 AM
[...]

That doesn't change the fact that native resentment of Europeans was caused by the latter's invasion and occupation of native lands. For some reason, people tend to react very negatively when foreigners start destroying and stealing their ancestral homeland.



[...]

"For some reason"...foreigners...and so who was in America first? Was it people from another star system, was it native Americans, as exactly who was in America first, as there are records of many different kinds of visitations.

The Solutreans, who were they before the other types.

...the Irish, the english, the Dutch, the French, or was it the anguish they must have felt when they were crossed on.

How much anguish has suffered the dust of what wars cause all others no matter where they are living. The earth is a circle, the LORD is one LORD above all other gods...

Orion Rules
11-04-2018, 01:36 AM
I am trying to point out how the US government's decades of violent imperialism have caused blowback in the form of terrorism. Among people who actually study this kind of thing, it's not particularly controversial.

You are failing to understand what is not even really controversial, except to them, of who to that must practice their religion.

Orion Rules
11-04-2018, 02:01 AM
I predict before each election that nothing will really change immigration regardless of what the candidates say. Two years ago I predicted "no wall" at least no more wall.
Do you think a country of our stature cannot maintain it's borders if they wish? But here's the thing, illegal immigration brings cheap labor to businessmen, some of whom are connected to DC. At the other end of the spectrum we import talent while our kids can't get jobs in their field . Also driving down the cost companies pay for engineers and other technical positions.
So I agree with you. But the opinions that count to politicians don't.

You are right, the opinions of the politicians don't count. That is, if they are still a politician after the storm rises up to see to it.

Obviously, a whole wall across the southern border can never happen, as ani-mals must be able to pass through the Fish Gate.

"The Book of Nehemiah", if man will follow it.

donttread
11-04-2018, 08:06 AM
The lesson? Political correctness sometimes comes at the risk of saving lives.


No I meant the lesson that waterboarding got us bad information regarding Iraq that COST many lives including American lives and did not really get us seen as "liberators".

donttread
11-04-2018, 08:10 AM
One has to wonder what kind of evil was visited upon him to cause him so much hatred for Americans.

I wonder if perhaps someone in his family was killed by the US invasion and occupation of Iraq. Certainly wouldn't surprise me, given how much destruction and death was visited upon Iraqis by the US government.

I know if someone killed my family, I'd want vengeance.

Or perhaps his hatred is the result of someone importing I-Phones into Iraq or something. Yeah, that's probably it.



Well "E" terrorist creation to assure new generations to be at war with is one of the things we do best. Especially the CIA. One drone bombing in an allied country killing one of seemingly thousands of "terrorist number two men" could also produce several future terrorist who watched the "allis " blow up there parents.

donttread
11-04-2018, 08:14 AM
If we took the number of Westerners killed by terrorist vs. the number of Middle Easterners killed by westerners in our life time who would really look like the crazy murderous bastards kicking the bee hive?

Don't get me wrong they have some crazy bastards which is all the more reason to stop kicking the damned bee hive!

Mister D
11-04-2018, 09:45 AM
Again, it wasn't costly to the people who profited the most from the war. What about that do you find so confusing? Do you understand how a racket works?

Right. The US occupied Iraq and Afghanistan for a decade and the tried to transform them into liberal democracies because someone was profiting. Uh huh...Nothing ideological here, folks.

War isn't a racket. This is one of those supposed truths that's just kind of goofy. Businesses and individuals can profit from a war? Really? Well, that must mean it's all conspiracy! lol

Mister D
11-04-2018, 09:54 AM
Once again, you dodged the question.

Do you think the state of technology during that time prevented Muslims from attacking Americans on American soil? Yes or no?



That doesn't change the fact that native resentment of Europeans was caused by the latter's invasion and occupation of native lands. For some reason, people tend to react very negatively when foreigners start destroying and stealing their ancestral homeland.



I think you're not trying hard enough.
Yes! Do you think any Islamic state was in any way capable of attacking the US? Again, it's a stupid question. We had very little contact with the Islamic world. Did Muslims attack Europe when Europe was meddling in the region and carving up territory? The European powers were all over the Middle East but where was all the terrorism?

And? The US wages ideological wars. The sooner you understand that the better. If you want to be a critic of US foreign policy it would help to understand its nature but that would require a negative assessment of both liberalism and capitalism than you're willing to give. :wink:

Mister D
11-04-2018, 09:57 AM
So, again, it's interesting that our government would resort to torture, detention without trial and secret prisons before making any adjustment to our immigration policy.

Orion Rules
11-04-2018, 01:11 PM
So, again, it's interesting that our government would resort to torture, detention without trial and secret prisons before making any adjustment to our immigration policy.

This is an invaluable piece of information, as to why there were no changes to an immigration policy still 'letting' them in. So, now everything pertinent to it is being called "racism".

Tahuyaman
11-04-2018, 02:26 PM
We don't agree. That's why we're arguing. Did I refer to as an idiot earlier? That's because you are.


I hope you see the irony there. I'm not sure what your problem is.

Tahuyaman
11-04-2018, 02:30 PM
No I meant the lesson that waterboarding got us bad information regarding Iraq that COST many lives including American lives and did not really get us seen as "liberators".


It got us good information more often.