Sanders to force a vote this week to end support for Saudi genocide in Yemen

[Just AnotherPerson]

Here are a few news links
Sanders to force vote this week to end us support for Saudi Arabia in Yemen
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/418320-sanders-to-force-vote-this-week-on-us-support-for-saudi-arabia-in-yemen

There is a clear way for congress to rebuke trump on Saudi Arabia: End US support for the Yemen war
http://inthesetimes.com/article/21583/trump_pr_congress_bernie_sanders_jamal_khashoggi_y emen/


This week by Wednesday no later than Thursday Bernie Sanders is going to force a vote to end support for the war in Yemen Here is the resolution It is S.J.Res.54 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-joint-resolution/54/ (https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-joint-resolution/54/)

If anyone wants to help you can contact your reps Here is a number 202-224-3121. You can contact all of your reps if you would like, you can also email them. We are wanting a Yes vote in support of S.J.Res.54 to end support for Saudi Arabia in Yemen.


S.J.Res.54 - A joint resolution to direct the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress.



Shown Here:
Introduced in Senate (02/28/2018)


This joint resolution directs the President to remove U.S. Armed Forces from hostilities in or affectingYemen, except those engaged in operations directed at Al Qaeda, within 30 days unless: (1) the President requests and Congress authorizes a later date, or (2) a declaration of war or specific authorization for the use of the Armed Forces has been enacted.







115th CONGRESS
2d Session












S. J. RES. 54

To direct the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
February 28, 2018


Mr. Sanders (for himself, Mr. Lee, and Mr. Murphy) introduced the following joint resolution; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations



JOINT RESOLUTION

To direct the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress.


Whereas Congress has the sole power to declare war under article I, section 8, clause 11 of the United States Constitution;



Whereas Congress has not declared war with respect to, or provided a specific statutory authorization for, the conflict between military forces led by Saudi Arabia, including forces from the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Senegal, and Sudan (the Saudi-led coalition), against the Houthis, also known as Ansar Allah, in the Republic of Yemen;



Whereas, since March 2015, members of the United States Armed Forces have been introduced into hostilities between the Saudi-led coalition and the Houthis, including providing to the Saudi-led coalition aerial targeting assistance, intelligence sharing, and mid-flight aerial refueling;



Whereas the United States has established a Joint Combined Planning Cell with Saudi Arabia, in which members of the United States Armed Forces assist in aerial targeting and help to coordinate military and intelligence activities;



Whereas, in December 2017, Secretary of Defense James N. Mattis stated, “We have gone in to be very—to be helpful where we can in identifying how you do target analysis and how you make certain you hit the right thing.”;



Whereas the conflict between the Saudi-led coalition and the Houthis constitutes, within the meaning of section 4(a) of the War Powers Resolution (50 U.S.C. 1543(a) (http://uscode.house.gov/quicksearch/get.plx?title=50&section=1543)), either hostilities or a situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances into which United States Armed Forces have been introduced;



Whereas section 5(c) of the War Powers Resolution (50 U.S.C. 1544(c) (http://uscode.house.gov/quicksearch/get.plx?title=50&section=1544)) states that “at any time that United States Armed Forces are engaged in hostilities outside the territory of the United States, its possessions and territories without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization, such forces shall be removed by the President if the Congress so directs”;



Whereas section 8(c) of the War Powers Resolution (50 U.S.C. 1547(c) (http://uscode.house.gov/quicksearch/get.plx?title=50&section=1547)) defines the introduction of United States Armed Forces to include “the assignment of members of such armed forces to command, coordinate, participate in the movement of, or accompany the regular or irregular military forces of any foreign country or government when such military forces are engaged, or there exists an imminent threat that such forces will become engaged, in hostilities,” and activities that the United States is conducting in support of the Saudi-led coalition, including aerial refueling and targeting assistance, fall within this definition;



Whereas section 1013 of the Department of State Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1984 and 1985 (50 U.S.C. 1546a (http://uscode.house.gov/quicksearch/get.plx?title=50&section=1546a)) provides that any joint resolution or bill to require the removal of United States Armed Forces engaged in hostilities without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization shall be considered in accordance with the expedited procedures of section 601(b) of the International Security and Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (Public Law 94–329; 90 Stat. 765); and



Whereas no specific statutory authorization for the use of United States Armed Forces with respect to the conflict between the Saudi-led coalition and the Houthis in Yemen has been enacted, and no provision of law explicitly authorizes the provision of targeting assistance or of midair refueling services to warplanes of Saudi Arabia or the United Arab Emirates that are engaged in such conflict: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. Removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress.Pursuant to section 1013 of the Department of State Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1984 and 1985 (50 U.S.C. 1546a (http://uscode.house.gov/quicksearch/get.plx?title=50&section=1546a)) and in accordance with the provisions of section 601(b) of the International Security Assistance and Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (Public Law 94–329; 90 Stat. 765), Congress hereby directs the President to remove United States Armed Forces from hostilities in or affecting the Republic of Yemen, except United States Armed Forces engaged in operations directed at al Qaeda or associated forces, by not later than the date that is 30 days after the date of the adoption of this joint resolution (unless the President requests and Congress authorizes a later date), and unless and until a declaration of war or specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces has been enacted.

[Ethereal]

There is no good reason for the US to support Saudi Arabia's disastrous, doomed, genocidal war in Yemen.

[Just AnotherPerson]

There is no good reason for the US to support Saudi Arabia's disastrous, doomed, genocidal war in Yemen.

Thank you for your comment, I find you to be one of the most respectable people in this forum. You are a true human being. I find it hard to understand why anyone would want this awful war to continue.

I really hope we can win this vote. I mean it is still going to be bad because they will still have 30 days to end it, so much bad can happen in those 30 days. But it is better late than never. If it does not pass, it will get passed in January when the Dems take the house. But that is too far away. That would be another 60 days. It is unimaginable.

[Tahuyaman]

Sanders to force a vote this week to end support for Saudi genocide in Yemen
Who does Sanders have influence with? The Sunni’s or Shia’s?

[donttread]

Thank you for your comment, I find you to be one of the most respectable people in this forum. You are a true human being. I find it hard to understand why anyone would want this awful war to continue.

I really hope we can win this vote. I mean it is still going to be bad because they will still have 30 days to end it, so much bad can happen in those 30 days. But it is better late than never. If it does not pass, it will get passed in January when the Dems take the house. But that is too far away. That would be another 60 days. It is unimaginable.


The ME is about instability, oil, distraction and profiteering and the Saudis were our collaborators

[Peter1469]

The ME is about instability, oil, distraction and profiteering and the Saudis were our collaborators
The ME is about instability, oil, and the 1700 year war between the Sunni and Shiites. Surrounding this mess is the Great Game between several world powers.

[MMC]

We will see if McConnell will even consider it.

[Tahuyaman]

The ME is about instability, oil, distraction and profiteering and the Saudis were our collaborators
Who’s the “profiteer” when it comes to be oil market? Only one guess is allowed on this one.

[Peter1469]

We will see if McConnell will even consider it.

I have a guess..., no.

[Tahuyaman]

Our congresscan vote on this all they want. Their vote is irrelevant. This fight which has been going on for thousands of years won’t suddenly end because our congress conducts a symbolic vote.

[Common]

Obama supported regime change in Libya and look whats happening now

Shouldnt we be more worried about this ?? Where is the UN send in Nato
They blame hillary but it was Obama that actually caused this

Lets see what @Safety (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1226) Standing Wolf Dr. Who have to say about this
I sincerely hope they dont try to blame Trump
This isnt a right wing article from a right wing site, this is USATODAY a liberal publication


Africans are being sold at Libyan slave markets. Thanks, Hillary Clinton.


Black Africans are being sold in open-air slave markets, and it’s Hillary Clinton’s fault. But you won’t hear much about that from the news media or the foreign-policy pundits, so let me explain.

Footage from Libya, released recently by CNN, showed young men from sub-Saharan Africa being auctioned off as farm workers (http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/14/africa/libya-migrant-auctions/index.html) in slave markets.

And how did we get to this point? As the BBC reported back in May, “Libya has been beset by chaos (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-24472322#sa-link_location=story-body&intlink_from_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2 Fworld-africa-42038451&intlink_ts=1511639082850-sa) since NATO-backed forces overthrew long-serving ruler Col. Moammar Gadhafi in October 2011.”
And who was behind that overthrow? None other than then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Under President George W. Bush in 2003, the United States negotiated an agreement with Libyan strongman Gadhafi (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/20/world/libya-to-give-up-arms-programs-bush-announces.html). The deal: He would give up his weapons of mass destruction peacefully, and we wouldn’t try to depose him.

That seemed a good deal at the time, but the Obama administration didn’t stick to it. Instead, in an operation spearheaded by Clinton, the United States went ahead (https://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/3/the_libya_gamble_inside_hillary_clinton) and toppled him anyway.

The overthrow turned out to be a debacle. Libya exploded into chaos and civil war, and refugees flooded Europe, destabilizing governments there. But at the time, Clinton thought it was a great triumph — "We came, we saw, he died (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/19/flashback_2011_hillary_clinton_laughs_about_killin g_moammar_gaddafi_we_came_we_saw_he_died.html),” she joked about Gadhafi’s overthrow — and adviser Sidney Blumenthal encouraged her to tout her "successful strategy (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/us/politics/benghazi-emails-put-focus-on-hillary-clintons-encouragement-of-adviser.html?_r=0)" as evidence of her fitness for the highest office in the land.

It’s surprising the extent to which Clinton has gotten a pass for this debacle, which represents a humanitarian and strategic failure of the first order. (And, of course, the damage is still compounding: How likely is North Korea’s Kim Jong Un to give up his nuclear weapons after seeing the worthlessness of U.S. promises to Gadhafi?)

Back during his brief stint in the Democratic primary, former senator James Webb raised the issue, saying America "blew the lid off of a series of tribal engagements. You can't get to the Tripoli airport (https://www.smithsonianmagazine.com.wstub.archive.org/details/CNNW_20150518_200000_The_Lead_With_Jake_Tapper/start/660/end/720) right now, much less Benghazi." But as the Libya disaster continues to unfold, Clinton’s role in it gets surprisingly little attention.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/11/27/clinton-ponders-2020-run-lets-not-forget-her-real-libya-scandal-glenn-reynolds-column/895853001/

[DGUtley]

House
Senate
President.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFroMQlKiag

[Peter1469]

Who’s the “profiteer” when it comes to be oil market? Only one guess is allowed on this one.

Is it anyone who uses oil or its byproducts? i.e. everyone?

[Peter1469]

Our congresscan vote on this all they want. Their vote is irrelevant. This fight which has been going on for thousands of years won’t suddenly end because our congress conducts a symbolic vote.

True. So far as our foreign policy goes, the Sunni Shiite schism is a historical curiosity, and a card to play to our advantage.

We need to step back and create a policy that takes advantage of that schism to our benefit. And which keeps oil prices low (a main driver of Russia's GDP).

[Tahuyaman]

Is it anyone who uses oil or its byproducts? i.e. everyone?. No. The profiteer is government. They do nothing to find the oil, extract it from the earth, transport it, refine it, transport it again and deliver it to the customer, but they make ten or fifteen times the profit than the oil companies.

[Peter1469]

Obama supported regime change in Libya and look whats happening now

Shouldnt we be more worried about this ?? Where is the UN send in Nato
They blame hillary but it was Obama that actually caused this

Lets see what @Safety (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1226) @Standing Wolf (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1791) @Dr. Who (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2702) have to say about this
I sincerely hope they dont try to blame Trump
This isnt a right wing article from a right wing site, this is USATODAY a liberal publication


Africans are being sold at Libyan slave markets. Thanks, Hillary Clinton.


Black Africans are being sold in open-air slave markets, and it’s Hillary Clinton’s fault. But you won’t hear much about that from the news media or the foreign-policy pundits, so let me explain.

Footage from Libya, released recently by CNN, showed young men from sub-Saharan Africa being auctioned off as farm workers (http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/14/africa/libya-migrant-auctions/index.html) in slave markets.

And how did we get to this point? As the BBC reported back in May, “Libya has been beset by chaos (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-24472322#sa-link_location=story-body&intlink_from_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2 Fworld-africa-42038451&intlink_ts=1511639082850-sa) since NATO-backed forces overthrew long-serving ruler Col. Moammar Gadhafi in October 2011.”
And who was behind that overthrow? None other than then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Under President George W. Bush in 2003, the United States negotiated an agreement with Libyan strongman Gadhafi (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/20/world/libya-to-give-up-arms-programs-bush-announces.html). The deal: He would give up his weapons of mass destruction peacefully, and we wouldn’t try to depose him.

That seemed a good deal at the time, but the Obama administration didn’t stick to it. Instead, in an operation spearheaded by Clinton, the United States went ahead (https://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/3/the_libya_gamble_inside_hillary_clinton) and toppled him anyway.

The overthrow turned out to be a debacle. Libya exploded into chaos and civil war, and refugees flooded Europe, destabilizing governments there. But at the time, Clinton thought it was a great triumph — "We came, we saw, he died (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/19/flashback_2011_hillary_clinton_laughs_about_killin g_moammar_gaddafi_we_came_we_saw_he_died.html),” she joked about Gadhafi’s overthrow — and adviser Sidney Blumenthal encouraged her to tout her "successful strategy (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/us/politics/benghazi-emails-put-focus-on-hillary-clintons-encouragement-of-adviser.html?_r=0)" as evidence of her fitness for the highest office in the land.

It’s surprising the extent to which Clinton has gotten a pass for this debacle, which represents a humanitarian and strategic failure of the first order. (And, of course, the damage is still compounding: How likely is North Korea’s Kim Jong Un to give up his nuclear weapons after seeing the worthlessness of U.S. promises to Gadhafi?)

Back during his brief stint in the Democratic primary, former senator James Webb raised the issue, saying America "blew the lid off of a series of tribal engagements. You can't get to the Tripoli airport (https://www.smithsonianmagazine.com.wstub.archive.org/details/CNNW_20150518_200000_The_Lead_With_Jake_Tapper/start/660/end/720) right now, much less Benghazi." But as the Libya disaster continues to unfold, Clinton’s role in it gets surprisingly little attention.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/11/27/clinton-ponders-2020-run-lets-not-forget-her-real-libya-scandal-glenn-reynolds-column/895853001/
With all respect to J.A.P., our outrage is better directed to what the US did to Libya than to Yemen. We were the proximate cause of Libya's collapse- a nation that was in the years prior to Qaddafi's death (facilitated by the US via an ODA, laser targeting, and an air launched air to surface missile which crashed Qaddafi's transport so the mob could get him), was the model of a successful North African nation.

Conversely, any US action is Yemen, outside of our war against AQAI, is merely incidental to the conflict.

[Peter1469]

. No. The profiteer is government. They do nothing to find the oil, extract it from the earth, transport it, refine it, transport it again and deliver it to the customer, but they make ten or fifteen times the profit than the oil companies.
But we all profit from cheaper gas at the pump- just something for Dontread to consider.

[Tahuyaman]

But we all profit from cheaper gas at the pump- just something for Dontread to consider.
I don’t profit from lower fuel prices. I just spend Less. I can use that money for other things.

[MMC]

I have a guess..., no.

Yeah, and I don't think it will matter if Mike Lee signed onto it or not.

[Peter1469]

I don’t profit from lower fuel prices. I just spend Less. I can use that money for other things.

To me that is profit. Money is just a tool to get what you need and want. If I save money here, I have options as to what to spend or save in on there. Just as a business does with its profits.

[Tahuyaman]

Spending less on a product is not earning a profit. Still government makes a much higher profit on the sale of fuel than the companies which find it, extract it, refine it and transport it and deliver it to the customer. Government is the true profiteer.

[Mini Me]

There is no good reason for the US to support Saudi Arabia's disastrous, doomed, genocidal war in Yemen.

As they used to say during the 60's: "What is they gave a war and nobody came?"

[Captdon]

I don’t profit from lower fuel prices. I just spend Less. I can use that money for other things.

Parsing words. Why?

[The Xl]

The Saudi's own us and do what they please despite being openly evil and destrutive, but we'll bomb Syria on the premise of morality with zero evidence to substantiate the accusations. The absolute state of our government. It's never been more openly corrupt, immoral, and discredited.

[Tahuyaman]

Parsing words. Why?
How do I, a private citizen earn a profit by Lower oil prices? I’m not selling a product which depends on oil. I am a consumer. I benefit by lower prices because I consume oil. I don’t earn anything based on the price of oil.

[Tahuyaman]

The Saudi's own us and do what they please despite being openly evil and destrutive, but we'll bomb Syria on the premise of morality with zero evidence to substantiate the accusations. The absolute state of our government. It's never been more openly corrupt, immoral, and discredited.

That’s short sighted. You don’t take into account the foreign policy realities of that region. I don’t believe you want to consider those realities. You look at the world as a zero sum game.

[Captdon]

Saudi Arabia sits on the Human Rights Council. Can the UN be wrong?

[Peter1469]

The Saudi's own us and do what they please despite being openly evil and destrutive, but we'll bomb Syria on the premise of morality with zero evidence to substantiate the accusations. The absolute state of our government. It's never been more openly corrupt, immoral, and discredited.

We didn't bomb Assad's Syria. We bombed Islamic State positions in Syria.

[MisterVeritis]

We didn't bomb Assad's Syria. We bombed Islamic State positions in Syria.
Cruise missile strikes on Syrian airfields don't count, somehow?

[Peter1469]

How do I, a private citizen earn a profit by Lower oil prices? I’m not selling a product which depends on oil. I am a consumer. I benefit by lower prices because I consume oil. I don’t earn anything based on the price of oil.
If you spend 50 cents less per gallon on your 20 gallon tank, you have $10 more to spend or save as you please. If you spend the same as you did earlier you have $0 extra money to spend.

[Peter1469]

Cruise missile strikes on Syrian airfields don't count, somehow?

That was a one time thing.

[Tahuyaman]

If you spend 50 cents less per gallon on your 20 gallon tank, you have $10 more to spend or save as you please. If you spend the same as you did earlier you have $0 extra money to spend.
That’s saving money, not earning a profit.

Still, the biggest profiteer from the sale of oil is government. They collect substantially more from the sale of each gallon of fuel than all of the major oil companies combined.

[MisterVeritis]

That was a one time thing.
Isn't every warhead explosion a one-time thing?

[Tahuyaman]

We didn't bomb Assad's Syria. We bombed Islamic State positions in Syria.
We did bomb Syrian military infrastructure and equipment. Chances are it will happen again. I think you can count on it.

[Just AnotherPerson]

If you spend 50 cents less per gallon on your 20 gallon tank, you have $10 more to spend or save as you please. If you spend the same as you did earlier you have $0 extra money to spend.
Nice math! So 85K children can just die so you can save $10 at the pump? And even up to 20 million more people or so? But hey you saved 10 dollars. It seems that our own lives are precious to us. It seems that when we get the slightest not feeling well we want to be well. We do everything we can to go on living. We want to be comfortable, and we don't want to be hungry. But we would deprive others the rights to those same things so that we can save a couple of dollars. For me that math is funny!

[Just AnotherPerson]

Our congresscan vote on this all they want. Their vote is irrelevant. This fight which has been going on for thousands of years won’t suddenly end because our congress conducts a symbolic vote.
No Mr constitutionalist.
The president is in clear violation of the constitution. This is the lawful means to reel the president back in when he has overstepped his bounds. It is the restoration of war powers, to their rightful place according to the constitution article 1 section 8. That congress has the sole power to declare war.

Why prolong the suffering of the children of Yemen? It is going to be passed in January anyways. Would you prefer that thousands, or millions, die in the meantime because we prolonged it?

It is not symbolic only, it is the restoration of our rightful places.

[Tahuyaman]

No Mr constitutionalist.
The president is in clear violation of the constitution. This is the lawful means to reel the president back in when he has overstepped his bounds. It is the restoration of war powers, to their rightful place according to the constitution article 1 section 8. That congress has the sole power to declare war.

Why prolong the suffering of the children of Yemen? It is going to be passed in January anyways. Would you prefer that thousands, or millions, die in the meantime because we prolonged it?

It is not symbolic only, it is the restoration of our rightful places.
Our congress thinking that they can stop this centuries old war with a vote is both symbolic and idiotic. Nothing will be solved by a vote from our congress. The combatants don't care about our congress.


What do you mean by its "the restoration of the war powers"? You're clueless.


Besides, the senate is going to stop all of the nonsense passed in the house.

[Tahuyaman]

Nice math! So 85K children can just die so you can save $10 at the pump? And even up to 20 million more people or so? But hey you saved 10 dollars. It seems that our own lives are precious to us. It seems that when we get the slightest not feeling well we want to be well. We do everything we can to go on living. We want to be comfortable, and we don't want to be hungry. But we would deprive others the rights to those same things so that we can save a couple of dollars. For me that math is funny!

You have to be a hard right winger trying her best to post comments which make liberal's look silly.

[Just AnotherPerson]

Our congress thinking that they can stop this centuries old war with a vote is both symbolic and idiotic. Nothing will be solved by a vote from our congress. The combatants don't care about our congress.


What do you mean by its "the restoration of the war powers"? You're clueless.


Besides, the senate is going to stop all of the nonsense passed in the house.

I am sure you would like it if I were clueless. No one said this will stop everything. It is us who should not be participating our nation in a genocide, on anyone. Not just Yemen, anyone! Our nation should not be involved. We are causing mass suffering and death. You may be ok with that but people who are actually human beings are not. You guys say you don't want the war in Yemen, but then the moment you think it might end you wig out, defending why we should not pull out. Well your intentions are evident, we can all see it well.

[MMC]

The Saudi's own us and do what they please despite being openly evil and destrutive, but we'll bomb Syria on the premise of morality with zero evidence to substantiate the accusations. The absolute state of our government. It's never been more openly corrupt, immoral, and discredited.


LMAO.....the Saudis own us. I thought it was the Jews.

Make up your mind. Oh and not with each side. :laugh:

[Just AnotherPerson]

Our congress thinking that they can stop this centuries old war with a vote is both symbolic and idiotic. Nothing will be solved by a vote from our congress. The combatants don't care about our congress.


What do you mean by its "the restoration of the war powers"? You're clueless.


Besides, the senate is going to stop all of the nonsense passed in the house.

Well you must not have a very clear understanding of the constitution that you all brag about so much. What I meant by war powers is congress has sole power to declare war. That will be restored to it's rightful place, as the president has overstepped his bounds. You are not making me look dumb by making fun of me, when you are defending the violation of our constitution, that you claim to care so much about being upheld.

You would take the time out of your day to try to convince others to throw away their constitutional rights.

[Tahuyaman]

Well you must not have a very clear understanding of the constitution that you all brag about so much. What I meant by war powers is congress has sole power to declare war. That will be restored to it's rightful place, as the president has overstepped his bounds. You are not making me look dumb by making fun of me, when you are defending the violation of our constitution, that you claim to care so much about being upheld.

You would take the time out of your day to try to convince others to throw away their constitutional rights.
Actually, if we completely took a hands off position there, the situation would get even worse. Then you would be screaming for the US to get involved with military forces.


At some point, you need to stop letting your emotions guide you on this.

[Tahuyaman]

Well you must not have a very clear understanding of the constitution that you all brag about so much. What I meant by war powers is congress has sole power to declare war. That will be restored to it's rightful place, as the president has overstepped his bounds. You are not making me look dumb by making fun of me, when you are defending the violation of our constitution, that you claim to care so much about being upheld.

You would take the time out of your day to try to convince others to throw away their constitutional rights.

Seriously, a foreign policy discussion is not in your wheel house. You're clueless. You should go back to scolding people for being honest with AZ Jim.

[Tahuyaman]

LMAO.....the Saudis own us. I thought it was the Jews.

Make up your mind. Oh and not with each side. :laugh:

Eh.... It's a shifting situation. One day it's those rascally Joooz. The next day it's the Saudi's. After it's the big oil companies.

[Ethereal]

Obama supported regime change in Libya and look whats happening now

Shouldnt we be more worried about this ?? Where is the UN send in Nato
They blame hillary but it was Obama that actually caused this

Lets see what @Safety (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1226) @Standing Wolf (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1791) @Dr. Who (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2702) have to say about this
I sincerely hope they dont try to blame Trump
This isnt a right wing article from a right wing site, this is USATODAY a liberal publication


Africans are being sold at Libyan slave markets. Thanks, Hillary Clinton.


Black Africans are being sold in open-air slave markets, and it’s Hillary Clinton’s fault. But you won’t hear much about that from the news media or the foreign-policy pundits, so let me explain.

Footage from Libya, released recently by CNN, showed young men from sub-Saharan Africa being auctioned off as farm workers (http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/14/africa/libya-migrant-auctions/index.html) in slave markets.

And how did we get to this point? As the BBC reported back in May, “Libya has been beset by chaos (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-24472322#sa-link_location=story-body&intlink_from_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2 Fworld-africa-42038451&intlink_ts=1511639082850-sa) since NATO-backed forces overthrew long-serving ruler Col. Moammar Gadhafi in October 2011.”
And who was behind that overthrow? None other than then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Under President George W. Bush in 2003, the United States negotiated an agreement with Libyan strongman Gadhafi (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/20/world/libya-to-give-up-arms-programs-bush-announces.html). The deal: He would give up his weapons of mass destruction peacefully, and we wouldn’t try to depose him.

That seemed a good deal at the time, but the Obama administration didn’t stick to it. Instead, in an operation spearheaded by Clinton, the United States went ahead (https://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/3/the_libya_gamble_inside_hillary_clinton) and toppled him anyway.

The overthrow turned out to be a debacle. Libya exploded into chaos and civil war, and refugees flooded Europe, destabilizing governments there. But at the time, Clinton thought it was a great triumph — "We came, we saw, he died (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/19/flashback_2011_hillary_clinton_laughs_about_killin g_moammar_gaddafi_we_came_we_saw_he_died.html),” she joked about Gadhafi’s overthrow — and adviser Sidney Blumenthal encouraged her to tout her "successful strategy (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/us/politics/benghazi-emails-put-focus-on-hillary-clintons-encouragement-of-adviser.html?_r=0)" as evidence of her fitness for the highest office in the land.

It’s surprising the extent to which Clinton has gotten a pass for this debacle, which represents a humanitarian and strategic failure of the first order. (And, of course, the damage is still compounding: How likely is North Korea’s Kim Jong Un to give up his nuclear weapons after seeing the worthlessness of U.S. promises to Gadhafi?)

Back during his brief stint in the Democratic primary, former senator James Webb raised the issue, saying America "blew the lid off of a series of tribal engagements. You can't get to the Tripoli airport (https://www.smithsonianmagazine.com.wstub.archive.org/details/CNNW_20150518_200000_The_Lead_With_Jake_Tapper/start/660/end/720) right now, much less Benghazi." But as the Libya disaster continues to unfold, Clinton’s role in it gets surprisingly little attention.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/11/27/clinton-ponders-2020-run-lets-not-forget-her-real-libya-scandal-glenn-reynolds-column/895853001/
This has nothing to do with the thread topic. Did you post this by mistake or were you just trying to distract from Trump's unlawful war in Yemen?

[Ethereal]

Is it anyone who uses oil or its byproducts? i.e. everyone?
No, it's the politically connected companies who get to monopolize the oil contracts, to say nothing of the profiteering engaged in by banks and arms manufactures.

[Ethereal]

True. So far as our foreign policy goes, the Sunni Shiite schism is a historical curiosity, and a card to play to our advantage.

We need to step back and create a policy that takes advantage of that schism to our benefit. And which keeps oil prices low (a main driver of Russia's GDP).
I think we need to stop wasting trillions of dollars on needless wars before we think about the manipulation of sectarian violence and oil prices. Let's get the basic stuff right first and then maybe we can let the dysfunctional US government try more complex maneuvers.

[Ethereal]

With all respect to J.A.P., our outrage is better directed to what the US did to Libya than to Yemen. We were the proximate cause of Libya's collapse- a nation that was in the years prior to Qaddafi's death (facilitated by the US via an ODA, laser targeting, and an air launched air to surface missile which crashed Qaddafi's transport so the mob could get him), was the model of a successful North African nation.

Conversely, any US action is Yemen, outside of our war against AQAI, is merely incidental to the conflict.
The Saudi war in Yemen is helping AQ, as the Saudis intend it should. AQ is a de facto proxy army for the Saudi government. In Syria, the Saudi government was directly arming and financing AQ and its various spin-off groups.

[Tahuyaman]

Holy cow! The guy is a freaking broken record.

[Ethereal]

But we all profit from cheaper gas at the pump- just something for Dontread to consider.
Cheaper gas is the result of markets and free trade, not US imperialism. If anything, US imperialism is artificially constraining the global supply of oil. Iran and Venezuela both have massive oil reserves that US imperialism is keeping bottled up. Oil would be dirt cheap if Iran and Venezuela were allowed to freely sell their oil in international markets. Naturally, Saudi Arabia is the primary beneficiary of this policy.

[Tahuyaman]

So, US imperialism is respinsible for destroying Venezuela's oil industry? It had nothing to do with Hugo Chaves and his management of that industry. What a freaking dunce.


It's amazing how some people can blame America for absolutely everything. It's an intellectually vacant position. It's lazy. If you are uninformed and too lazy to get informed, blame America.

[Ethereal]

The Saudi's own us and do what they please despite being openly evil and destrutive, but we'll bomb Syria on the premise of morality with zero evidence to substantiate the accusations. The absolute state of our government. It's never been more openly corrupt, immoral, and discredited.

The only real difference between common street thugs and US politicians is that the latter are more sophisticated.

[Tahuyaman]

Absolutely hilarious.

[Tahuyaman]

This has nothing to do with the thread topic. Did you post this by mistake or were you just trying to distract from Trump's unlawful war in Yemen?


Just as your idiocy that American imperialism destroyed the Venezuelan oil industry has nothing to do with the thread topic. But then you excuse your own off topic drivel.

[Captdon]

How do I, a private citizen earn a profit by Lower oil prices? I’m not selling a product which depends on oil. I am a consumer. I benefit by lower prices because I consume oil. I don’t earn anything based on the price of oil.

Because it's a common enough usage that needs no explanation. Like- a million times.

[Captdon]

Nice math! So 85K children can just die so you can save $10 at the pump? And even up to 20 million more people or so? But hey you saved 10 dollars. It seems that our own lives are precious to us. It seems that when we get the slightest not feeling well we want to be well. We do everything we can to go on living. We want to be comfortable, and we don't want to be hungry. But we would deprive others the rights to those same things so that we can save a couple of dollars. For me that math is funny!

I'm not depriving anyone of anything. You'll have to look at yourself.

[Captdon]

Well you must not have a very clear understanding of the constitution that you all brag about so much. What I meant by war powers is congress has sole power to declare war. That will be restored to it's rightful place, as the president has overstepped his bounds. You are not making me look dumb by making fun of me, when you are defending the violation of our constitution, that you claim to care so much about being upheld.

You would take the time out of your day to try to convince others to throw away their constitutional rights.

R E A D T H I S S L O W L Y

Congress gave the President the power to go after the terrorist wherever they are. Congress did that.

[Captdon]

Holy cow! The guy is a freaking broken record.

To his credit, he is consistently wrong.

[Captdon]

He talks about being a team leader in wartime. Why did he volunteer to fight one of these wasteful, Un-Constitutional wars.

[Peter1469]

Nice math! So 85K children can just die so you can save $10 at the pump? And even up to 20 million more people or so? But hey you saved 10 dollars. It seems that our own lives are precious to us. It seems that when we get the slightest not feeling well we want to be well. We do everything we can to go on living. We want to be comfortable, and we don't want to be hungry. But we would deprive others the rights to those same things so that we can save a couple of dollars. For me that math is funny!

Yemen has no oil to speak of. Your math is off.

[Peter1469]

No, it's the politically connected companies who get to monopolize the oil contracts, to say nothing of the profiteering engaged in by banks and arms manufactures.
Plus us.

[Peter1469]

I think we need to stop wasting trillions of dollars on needless wars before we think about the manipulation of sectarian violence and oil prices. Let's get the basic stuff right first and then maybe we can let the dysfunctional US government try more complex maneuvers.
I do too.

[Peter1469]

The Saudi war in Yemen is helping AQ, as the Saudis intend it should. AQ is a de facto proxy army for the Saudi government. In Syria, the Saudi government was directly arming and financing AQ and its various spin-off groups.
Yes.

In Yemen it is AQAI.

[Peter1469]

Cheaper gas is the result of markets and free trade, not US imperialism. If anything, US imperialism is artificially constraining the global supply of oil. Iran and Venezuela both have massive oil reserves that US imperialism is keeping bottled up. Oil would be dirt cheap if Iran and Venezuela were allowed to freely sell their oil in international markets. Naturally, Saudi Arabia is the primary beneficiary of this policy.
When you consider that OPEC is in play, we see there is not fee market in oil.

And the US is not the issue with Valenzuela and its utter inability to manage its own energy sector- it is socialism. They nationalized their oil industry so no foreign oil investing corp will touch them.

[Just AnotherPerson]

Yemen has no oil to speak of. Your math is off.

I never said that Yemen had oil. I was replying to your comment. But since you mentioned it Yes Yemen does have oil. https://www.reuters.com/article/yemen-ministers-idUSL8N1Y162D

[Peter1469]

I never said that Yemen had oil. I was replying to your comment. But since you mentioned it Yes Yemen does have oil. https://www.reuters.com/article/yemen-ministers-idUSL8N1Y162D

I said that they had no oil to speak of. It was a joke to counter your joke about the US committing genocide there. See funny.

You claim genocide; I counter, why- they don't have enough oil.

[Just AnotherPerson]

R E A D T H I S S L O W L Y

Congress gave the President the power to go after the terrorist wherever they are. Congress did that.

Well it is officially settled. You do not believe in upholding the constitution, and you also have zero reading comprehension.

Do you think because of the AUMF that Trump is authorized to engage in hostilities in Yemen? Please do tell us your understanding of the AUMF. Give us your own made up version.

[Tahuyaman]

When you consider that OPEC is in play, we see there is not fee market in oil.

And the US is not the issue with Valenzuela and its utter inability to manage its own energy sector- it is socialism. They nationalized their oil industry so no foreign oil investing corp will touch them.
It is absolutely absurd to somehow blame the disfunction of the Venezuelan oil industry on “American imperialism”. American imperialism would have created a huge amount of wealth with that massive resource.

[Peter1469]

It is absolutely absurd to somehow blame the disfunction of the Venezuelan oil industry on “American imperialism”. American imperialism would have created a huge amount of wealth with that massive resource.
Agree.

Agree.

[Dr. Who]

Obama supported regime change in Libya and look whats happening now

Shouldnt we be more worried about this ?? Where is the UN send in Nato
They blame hillary but it was Obama that actually caused this

Lets see what @Safety (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1226) @Standing Wolf (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1791) @Dr. Who (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2702) have to say about this
I sincerely hope they dont try to blame Trump
This isnt a right wing article from a right wing site, this is USATODAY a liberal publication


Africans are being sold at Libyan slave markets. Thanks, Hillary Clinton.


Black Africans are being sold in open-air slave markets, and it’s Hillary Clinton’s fault. But you won’t hear much about that from the news media or the foreign-policy pundits, so let me explain.

Footage from Libya, released recently by CNN, showed young men from sub-Saharan Africa being auctioned off as farm workers (http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/14/africa/libya-migrant-auctions/index.html) in slave markets.

And how did we get to this point? As the BBC reported back in May, “Libya has been beset by chaos (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-24472322#sa-link_location=story-body&intlink_from_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2 Fworld-africa-42038451&intlink_ts=1511639082850-sa) since NATO-backed forces overthrew long-serving ruler Col. Moammar Gadhafi in October 2011.”
And who was behind that overthrow? None other than then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Under President George W. Bush in 2003, the United States negotiated an agreement with Libyan strongman Gadhafi (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/20/world/libya-to-give-up-arms-programs-bush-announces.html). The deal: He would give up his weapons of mass destruction peacefully, and we wouldn’t try to depose him.

That seemed a good deal at the time, but the Obama administration didn’t stick to it. Instead, in an operation spearheaded by Clinton, the United States went ahead (https://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/3/the_libya_gamble_inside_hillary_clinton) and toppled him anyway.

The overthrow turned out to be a debacle. Libya exploded into chaos and civil war, and refugees flooded Europe, destabilizing governments there. But at the time, Clinton thought it was a great triumph — "We came, we saw, he died (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/19/flashback_2011_hillary_clinton_laughs_about_killin g_moammar_gaddafi_we_came_we_saw_he_died.html),” she joked about Gadhafi’s overthrow — and adviser Sidney Blumenthal encouraged her to tout her "successful strategy (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/us/politics/benghazi-emails-put-focus-on-hillary-clintons-encouragement-of-adviser.html?_r=0)" as evidence of her fitness for the highest office in the land.

It’s surprising the extent to which Clinton has gotten a pass for this debacle, which represents a humanitarian and strategic failure of the first order. (And, of course, the damage is still compounding: How likely is North Korea’s Kim Jong Un to give up his nuclear weapons after seeing the worthlessness of U.S. promises to Gadhafi?)

Back during his brief stint in the Democratic primary, former senator James Webb raised the issue, saying America "blew the lid off of a series of tribal engagements. You can't get to the Tripoli airport (https://www.smithsonianmagazine.com.wstub.archive.org/details/CNNW_20150518_200000_The_Lead_With_Jake_Tapper/start/660/end/720) right now, much less Benghazi." But as the Libya disaster continues to unfold, Clinton’s role in it gets surprisingly little attention.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/11/27/clinton-ponders-2020-run-lets-not-forget-her-real-libya-scandal-glenn-reynolds-column/895853001/
Don't hold your breath expecting me to defend Hillary. She's a war hawk.

[Just AnotherPerson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFuyb3nimfY

[Peter1469]

Don't hold your breath expecting me to defend Hillary. She's a war hawk.

That is liberal war hawk. They are kissing cousins to the neocons. They both want war, just for different reasons.

[Captdon]

Well it is officially settled. You do not believe in upholding the constitution, and you also have zero reading comprehension.

Do you think because of the AUMF that Trump is authorized to engage in hostilities in Yemen? Please do tell us your understanding of the AUMF. Give us your own made up version.

I guess telling you to read slowly didn't work. When Congress tells a President he can go to war that's it. Whether it's Constitutinal or not is up to SCOTUS. That's not you.

See, one of usually knows his facts and one of usually doesn't know what's she's talking about. Whatever happens in Yemen won't mean a thing to me. It's not any concern to me. You don't seem to have a grasp on the English language.

[Just AnotherPerson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljEodixEKSk

[Tahuyaman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljEodixEKSk
The same dust of stars. Lol.

[Orion Rules]

I guess telling you to read slowly didn't work. When Congress tells a President he can go to war that's it. Whether it's Constitutinal or not is up to SCOTUS. That's not you.

See, one of usually knows his facts and one of usually doesn't know what's she's talking about. Whatever happens in Yemen won't mean a thing to me. It's not any concern to me. You don't seem to have a grasp on the English language.

You keep telling others who are against what you represent in facts are your valuables of using Scientology tactics as if that is your true language. You may try this in your basement, that no one else can describe what you yourself don't care about because you are involved inside of the same language.

[Just AnotherPerson]

Senate Yemen resolution vote Live https://www.c-span.org/video/?454699-2/us-senate-vote-yemen-resolution

[Captdon]

You keep telling others who are against what you represent in facts are your valuables of using Scientology tactics as if that is your true language. You may try this in your basement, that no one else can describe what you yourself don't care about because you are involved inside of the same language.

Your mysticism has led you down to She'ol . Escape is not possible for those of your leanings. I use the language and thinking of the Ancient Ones who you know and ,yet, know not,.You are defending the One who knows not. I do not care about the Heathens of the land of .



You know not of Gog and Megog.

[Peter1469]

Your mysticism has led you down to She'ol . Escape is not possible for those of your leanings. I use the language and thinking of the Ancient Ones who you know and ,yet, know not,.You are defending the One who knows not. I do not care about the Heathens of the land of .



You know not of Gog and Megog.
I don't really follow him; what school of mysticism do you think OR follows?

[Tahuyaman]

You keep telling others who are against what you represent in facts are your valuables of using Scientology tactics as if that is your true language. You may try this in your basement, that no one else can describe what you yourself don't care about because you are involved inside of the same language.
But then you need to consider the epic proportions of the systematic junction of the wide box. It’s of the nature you speak. Time is not willing to be near the canary in the coal mine in this sense. It’s your clear plastic jug which gives you away.

[Captdon]

Senate Yemen resolution vote Live https://www.c-span.org/video/?454699-2/us-senate-vote-yemen-resolution


Resolutions are essentially meaningless. They allow the legislature to recognize people, events, groups, issues without actually making law.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't really follow him; what school of mysticism do you think OR follows?

Certainly no earthy form of mysticism.

[Just AnotherPerson]

S.J.Res 54 passes 63 Yes 37 No
It will go to the floor for debate

[Tahuyaman]

S.J.Res 54 passes 63 Yes 37 No
It will go to the floor for debate
Let’s say it passes. How will it end the bloodshed in Yemen?

[Just AnotherPerson]

(https://thehill.com/policy/defense/418765-senate-advances-yemen-resolution-in-rebuke-to-trump)
Senate advances Yemen resolution in rebuke to Trump
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/418765-senate-advances-yemen-resolution-in-rebuke-to-trump



The Senate advanced a resolution on Wednesday to end U.S. support for the Saudi-led military campaign in Yemen, dealing a significant blow to the Trump administration.

The Senate voted 63-37 to discharge the resolution from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. A simple majority was needed to move it forward.

The resolution, spearheaded by Sens. Mike Lee (https://thehill.com/people/mike-lee) (R-Utah), Bernie Sanders (https://thehill.com/people/bernie-sanders) (I-Vt.) and Chris Murphy (https://thehill.com/people/christopher-murphy) (D-Conn.), would require Trump to withdraw any troops in “or affecting" Yemen within 30 days unless they are fighting al Qaeda.

The procedural vote marks a significant victory for supporters of the resolution, which previously fell six votes short during a similar vote in March.

[Tahuyaman]

(https://thehill.com/policy/defense/418765-senate-advances-yemen-resolution-in-rebuke-to-trump)
Senate advances Yemen resolution in rebuke to Trump
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/418765-senate-advances-yemen-resolution-in-rebuke-to-trump



The Senate advanced a resolution on Wednesday to end U.S. support for the Saudi-led military campaign in Yemen, dealing a significant blow to the Trump administration.

The Senate voted 63-37 to discharge the resolution from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. A simple majority was needed to move it forward.

The resolution, spearheaded by Sens. Mike Lee (https://thehill.com/people/mike-lee) (R-Utah), Bernie Sanders (https://thehill.com/people/bernie-sanders) (I-Vt.) and Chris Murphy (https://thehill.com/people/christopher-murphy) (D-Conn.), would require Trump to withdraw any troops in “or affecting" Yemen within 30 days unless they are fighting al Qaeda.

The procedural vote marks a significant victory for supporters of the resolution, which previously fell six votes short during a similar vote in March.



Oh, I get it. It’s a vote to rebuke Trump. There’s no intention to end a war we can’t end.

[Peter1469]

It isn't significant. The only interest the US has in Yemen is AQAI.

[Tahuyaman]

It isn't significant. The only interest the US has in Yemen is AQAI.
At first I thought this was just a symbolic gesture. It was just expised that this vote is somehow now perceived as a rebuke of Trump. If you have patience, left wingers will expose themselves every time.

[Orion Rules]

Oh, I get it. It’s a vote to rebuke Trump. There’s no intention to end a war we can’t end.

It will if it helps Israel not become sand.

[MisterVeritis]

At first I thought this was just a symbolic gesture. It was just expised that this vote is somehow now perceived as a rebuke of Trump. If you have patience, left wingers will expose themselves every time.
Mike Lee is no left winger.

It is time for a new war declaration or to end our participation in the wars abroad. President Trump should have been impeached and removed from office the first time he waged war against Syria without Congressional approval. He should have been impeached and removed from office the second time he waged war against Syria without Congressional approval.

The Congress should clip the President's war-making wings.

Let's have the debate? Shall we have endless wars without winning?

[Captdon]

I don't really follow him; what school of mysticism do you think OR follows?

Charles Manson.

[Captdon]

Mike Lee is no left winger.

It is time for a new war declaration or to end our participation in the wars abroad. President Trump should have been impeached and removed from office the first time he waged war against Syria without Congressional approval. He should have been impeached and removed from office the second time he waged war against Syria without Congressional approval.

The Congress should clip the President's war-making wings.

Let's have the debate? Shall we have endless wars without winning?

SCOTUS needs to settle this. We can't have Presidents starting wars but we can't wait for Congress all the time either. What if Russia attacks Europe while Congress is in recess? Is the NATO treaty a declaration of war? Wouldn't seem so. What if NK attacks the South?

I have no side in this. I'd just like the debate settled.

[MisterVeritis]

SCOTUS needs to settle this. We can't have Presidents starting wars but we can't wait for Congress all the time either. What if Russia attacks Europe while Congress is in recess? Is the NATO treaty a declaration of war? Wouldn't seem so. What if NK attacks the South?

I have no side in this. i'd just like the debate settled.
What if Russia attacks Europe? If the attack involves NATO members and if they invoke the common defense article then we can already defend in Europe. If Russia attacked American troops in Europe we can already defend. If we are attacked on the high seas we can already defend.

The Senate, when it approves a treaty is committing the nation to the terms of the treaty. Beyond defense, we still need a congressional war declaration if we plan to transition from defense to offense.

It is a similar situation with South Korea.

[Captdon]

At first I thought this was just a symbolic gesture. It was just expised that this vote is somehow now perceived as a rebuke of Trump. If you have patience, left wingers will expose themselves every time.

Some of the Republicans voted for this because of Kosshoggi. They think Trump should have done more to sanction SA.. A couple of Senators voted to get it out of committee to debate it.The odds are it won't pass. If it does, Congress has to get both housed to write and pass identical bills Trump will veto that. It's a feel good thing.

[MisterVeritis]

SCOTUS needs to settle this. We can't have Presidents starting wars but we can't wait for Congress all the time either. What if Russia attacks Europe while Congress is in recess? Is the NATO treaty a declaration of war? Wouldn't seem so. What if NK attacks the South?

I have no side in this. i'd just like the debate settled.
Why would the Supreme Court play a role? They have no Constitutional authority under Article I and II. It is time to clip the court's wings as well.

[Ethereal]

US support for the Saudi war in Yemen is indefensible on every ground, legally, morally, ethically, practically. Those who continue to support it are beneath contempt.

[Captdon]

What if Russia attacks Europe? If the attack involves NATO members and if they invoke the common defense article then we can already defend in Europe. If Russia attacked American troops in Europe we can already defend. If we are attacked on the high seas we can already defend.

The Senate, when it approves a treaty is committing the nation to the terms of the treaty. Beyond defense, we still need a congressional war declaration if we plan to transition from defense to offense.

It is a similar situation with South Korea.


A treaty overcomes the Constitution? Defending the United States and defending the Baltics are not the same thing.

SCOTUS needs to weigh in. I don't want US troops in a war with Russia over a pissant country unless Congress says to do it. We haven't fought legitimate war since WWII.

I don't believe selling arms is the same as going to war. I don't believe anything short of fighting is war. Supplying weapons isn't war; supplying intelligence isn't war. We are not at war in Yemen. That's what this is about.

I wandered a little off topic but all this is off topic.

[Captdon]

US support for the Saudi war in Yemen is indefensible on every ground, legally, morally, ethically, practically. Those who continue to support it are beneath contempt.

You'd know about that.

[MisterVeritis]

A treaty overcomes the Constitution? Defending the United States and defending the Baltics are not the same thing.
A treaty is a serious thing. That is why the Senate must approve it. Yes. Once a treaty is approved we are obligated to fulfill it. Treat carefully.

[Captdon]

Why would the Supreme Court play a role? They have no Constitutional authority under Article I and II. It is time to clip the court's wings as well.

Who do you think is going to settle it? Don't say Congress or the President. That's not reality and you know it.

[Orion Rules]

Posted by Peter1469:
I don't really follow him; what school of mysticism do you think OR follows?


Charles Manson.

No way, the Congress is the one to decide on war resolutions. It has been your advice that the U.S. Congress, the U.S. at present, must follow the U.S. Constitution. You want(ed) an answer, receive nothing.

I Kings 19

[Captdon]

No way, the Congress is the one to decide on war resolutions. It has been your advice that the U.S. Congress, the U.S. at present, must follow the U.S. Constitution. You want(ed) an answer, receive nothing.

I Kings 19

You don't shake a can of beer and then pop it open. There has to be a plan if you want success.Failure is eternal while victory can be fleeting.

[MisterVeritis]

Who do you think is going to settle it? Don't say Congress or the President. That's not reality and you know it.
The Congress has the Congressional role and all the power it needs. The Court has no Constitutional powers in this regard. It is time to stop running to the Court to do what the Constitution already demands.

[MisterVeritis]

You don't shake a can of beer and then pop it open. There has to be a plan if you want success.Failure is eternal while victory can be fleeting.
1 Capt 102

[Just AnotherPerson]

https://youtu.be/-S-nCiDNWWs



https://youtu.be/2E5YQV3bBiw




https://youtu.be/nYMpg2bGzk0



There were also some really good talks given after the closed door briefing on Khashoggi and Yemen today
https://www.c-span.org/video/?455122-1/senators-unhappy-absence-cia-director-briefing-khashoggi-killing

[Just AnotherPerson]

Mike Lee is no left winger.

It is time for a new war declaration or to end our participation in the wars abroad. President Trump should have been impeached and removed from office the first time he waged war against Syria without Congressional approval. He should have been impeached and removed from office the second time he waged war against Syria without Congressional approval.

The Congress should clip the President's war-making wings.

Let's have the debate? Shall we have endless wars without winning?

Well said!

[Orion Rules]

You don't shake a can of beer and then pop it open. There has to be a plan if you want success.Failure is eternal while victory can be fleeting.

I Kings 18, victory is never fleeting. Your religion of money counts the most is a joke because nothing you have could ever count as a bargain. As in fact, you are self-centered, self-righteous, arrogant, a news story is about what must be your next earnings are not impeded because you are a pharisee who scribbles with a pen, as you have no manners of any kind.

I work for Israel, not you, and you are a wheel that never stops with the chagrin. Your whole impetus in life is to go even higher than the King of the Hebrews, where Israel would be delivered the shells of Aten. You never thought of that one, of your lies are more self-seeking cons. Those who wish for war with Yemen will be delivered the Sauds. Sod for fraud.

[Tahuyaman]

It will if it helps Israel not become sand.
You meant glass, right?

[Tahuyaman]

Still, can someone tell me how this vote will end the chaos and fighting in Yemen?

[Tahuyaman]

I Kings 18, victory is never fleeting. Your religion of money counts the most is a joke because nothing you have could ever count as a bargain. As in fact, you are self-centered, self-righteous, arrogant, a news story is about what must be your next earnings are not impeded because you are a pharisee who scribbles with a pen, as you have no manners of any kind.

I work for Israel, not you, and you are a wheel that never stops with the chagrin. Your whole impetus in life is to go even higher than the King of the Hebrews, where Israel would be delivered the shells of Aten. You never thought of that one, of your lies are more self-seeking cons. Those who wish for war with Yemen will be delivered the Sauds. Sod for fraud.

There was a time when Jericho went to the realm of the sea of Galilee and the stubborn principle was born into the gypsum edge of the signs following.

[Captdon]

A treaty is a serious thing. That is why the Senate must approve it. Yes. Once a treaty is approved we are obligated to fulfill it. Treat carefully.

I asked if a treaty overcomes the Constitution. Apparently it does. Wow.

[Captdon]

The Congress has the Congressional role and all the power it needs. The Court has no Constitutional powers in this regard. It is time to stop running to the Court to do what the Constitution already demands.

Congress allows the President to fight a war without a declaration of war. How are they going to settle it. They have allowed it.

Be realistic. They can do no more than refuse to fund the war. You know that will never happen. Get out of your fantasy world and accept that only SCOTUS is going to settle this.

If all you want is to have something to bitch about you're in good shape. If you want the war-making powers returned to Congress you need the Court to say so.

[Captdon]

Still, can someone tell me how this vote will end the chaos and fighting in Yemen?

It won't. The Saudi's will get the arms from China. That's exactly what we need.

[Captdon]

Post 103 Mister Vertis


The Congress has the Congressional role and all the power it needs. The Court has no Constitutional powers in this regard. It is time to stop running to the Court to do what the Constitution already demands.




Congress allows the President to fight a war without a declaration of war. How are they going to settle it. They have allowed it.

Be realistic. They can do no more than refuse to fund the war. You know that will never happen. Get out of your fantasy world and accept that only SCOTUS is going to settle this.

If all you want is to have something to $#@! about you're in good shape. If you want the war-making powers returned to Congress you need the Court to say so.


If the Congress declares the war in Yemen is unconstitutional how does they enforce it? No president would obey it without a SCOTUS ruling. There's the facts and you know it.



We have reached our circling point. You can have the last word.

[MisterVeritis]

I asked if a treaty overcomes the Constitution. Apparently it does. Wow.
I believe you show a poor understanding. Those portions of the treaty that obligates us to act were approved by the full Senate. If you want to believe this overcomes the Constitution you err. Think of it as a supplement. This is a difficult concept, isn't it? Many people stumble and fall over it.

[MisterVeritis]

Post 103 Mister Vertis: The Congress has the Congressional role and all the power it needs. The Court has no Constitutional powers in this regard. It is time to stop running to the Court to do what the Constitution already demands.

Congress allows the President to fight a war without a declaration of war. How are they going to settle it. They have allowed it.
The Congress giveth. The Congress taketh away. The Congress can not give up its Constitutional obligations. It can choose to act or not act. If they allow it, then, for that instance the issue is settled.

Be realistic.
Be Constitutional.


They can do no more than refuse to fund the war. You know that will never happen. Get out of your fantasy world and accept that only SCOTUS is going to settle this.
Yes. The Congress has nearly ALL of the power. They can withhold funds. They can impeach the President.

The Courts have absolutely NO Article I nor Article II authority. Why do you seek to give them any? Do you love tyranny so much?

If all you want is to have something to $#@! about you're in good shape. If you want the war-making powers returned to Congress you need the Court to say so.
The sole authority to declare wars rests in the Congress. It does not rest in the courts. Nor should it. You err, this I can tell you.

If the Congress declares the war in Yemen is unconstitutional how does they enforce it? No president would obey it without a SCOTUS ruling. There's the facts and you know it.
Defund it. If the President continues impeach him.

[Cletus]

I asked if a treaty overcomes the Constitution. Apparently it does. Wow.

No, it doesn't.

[Orion Rules]

You meant glass, right?

No, sand. A glass is what you hold in your hand.

[...]


Orion Rules: I Kings 18, victory is never fleeting...



Tahuyaman: There was a time when Jericho went to the realm of the sea of Galilee and the stubborn principle was born into the gypsum edge of the signs following.


The signs following are that your terms are that you are the center of it all, that you are the means. That is what the scriptures state regarding the stiff-necked and stubborn. Did you know that the Israelis do not care for betrayal from within?

[Orion Rules]

"The Book of Zechariah"

The horse thieves inside the Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Senator Sanders, U.S. Senator Paul, U.S. Senator Feinstein,

That horses can be sent to slaughter anytime the feds feel a "good" need for it.

Agriculture is necessary, not murder.

Genesis 5, The Bureau of Land Management, and its assorting agencies, are guilty of murder.

"The Gospel of the Holy Twelve", the church will be judged for.

Genesis 49, Judah is a lion's whelp, as Jesus whipped the money changers and threw them out of his Father's house.

The temple of Amen-Re, Father and Son, the word of God, as Christ dwelt among us.

Ram Aries Karnak.

Naphtali is a deer, whose fawn knows not to trust mankind for what have done hunters.

Imagine yourself always on the run to not become those next statistics.

The dog is man's best friend as he was trained to hunt after other beasts.

The land of Nod of wag the tail of the pony as it is carted off to be killed to feed beasts.

Genesis 49:11, "Binding his foal to a vine...", the Lord Jesus, as Bureau of Land Management shoots horses.

Psalm 50 null and voids their contracts.

A dog is a wolf and Anubis helped God create the alligator, the crocodile, of the underworld of judgment begins at Leviticus 24.

Public Law 92-195 of which a Republican President signed into law which he wanted:

THE WILD FREE-ROAMING HORSES AND BURROS ACT OF 1971 (PUBLIC LAW 92-195)

They were to be given land to grow, not be harvested for parts, food, entertainment, chased after by helicopters with the faces of men taunting them to surrender at high speeds of flight.

The horses suffer panic attacks as they are forced to run long distances to wear them out, corralled, imprisoned, hauled off to those impatient, shocked that this is what persecution is for, 'us being who were are as God created us to patrol the earth'.

Roped, torn down, that is what the Hyksos sheepherders and cattle slavers deserve be done to them right in the center of the hearth.

The bottom-feeders of the land where parasites dwell, that the blood of the horses' bridles of Revelation chapter 14, that the land of Aker is abused, and Anubis' wolves, and foxes, and coyotes, and bears, and rabbits, and mice, and beaver, with an eagle's nest inside of it.

The disgusting manner in how horses are roped and tidied down as if they belong to the Hyksos sheepherders of Secretary Zinke and a mafia of killers who don't care what happens to the creatures God placed there to belong to the care the people can provide for not varmints.

Twitter at @Freedom4Horses @Blueequus775.

[Captdon]

I believe you show a poor understanding. Those portions of the treaty that obligates us to act were approved by the full Senate. If you want to believe this overcomes the Constitution you err. Think of it as a supplement. This is a difficult concept, isn't it? Many people stumble and fall over it.


What has that do to with it? Where is that in the Constitution? We can ignore ignore the war powers of Congress by a treaty? Where is our sovereignty then? A President can't go to war under a war powers act but can under a treaty? We hit Syria and there are terrorists there. We have them in Yemen.

Yea, it't an excuse for whatever you want it to be. That's poor reasoning. In fact, it's not reasoning at all. It is foolishness.

Either Trump did what he was allowed to do without a declaration of war or Congress has ceded it by an ongoing law.

Now I'm done unless you think up some different nonsense.

[Captdon]

I believe you show a poor understanding. Those portions of the treaty that obligates us to act were approved by the full Senate. If you want to believe this overcomes the Constitution you err. Think of it as a supplement. This is a difficult concept, isn't it? Many people stumble and fall over it.


So, if 2/3 of the Senate vote yes then they can "supplement" as it chooses.

Supplement to the Constitution. You do have a sense of humor. A supplement.

[Orion Rules]

Atlantis sank in one hour, as the Congress of the United States plays games with the lives of others, as if none of them count as their own.

Be sure to be seated as the awestruck, when the Lord Jesus Christ appears as the Lamb of God on Mt. Zion, with the 144,000 of His own.

[Just AnotherPerson]

Senate Measure Holds Saudi Crown Prince Accountable for Killing of Jamal Khashoggi
https://www.young.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/DAV18I36.pdf

https://www.young.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-measure-holds-saudi-crown-prince-accountable

Reaction to CIA briefing on Khashoggi killing on Dec 4th
Rand paul https://www.c-span.org/video/?455466-101/senator-rand-paul-cia-director-senators-khashoggi-killing
Lindsey Graham https://www.c-span.org/video/?455466-5/senator-lindsey-graham-reaction-cia-director-briefing-khashoggi-killing
Corker https://www.c-span.org/video/?455466-3/foreign-relations-chair-corker-reaction-cia-director-briefing-khashoggi-killing
Menendez https://www.c-span.org/video/?455466-102/senator-menendez-calls-tougher-response-khashoggi-killing
Shelby https://www.c-span.org/video/?455466-103/senator-shelby-speaks-reporters-cia-directors-briefing-khashoggi-killing
Rand Paul https://www.c-span.org/video/?455466-1/senators-saudi-crown-prince-khashoggi-killing


My Opinion
I just want to state that I am not a fan of sanctions against Saudi Arabia. I do not believe in punishing the people of a nation for the crimes of their gov. But I am for ending arms sales to them as well as ending military assistance.

[MisterVeritis]

I believe you show a poor understanding. Those portions of the treaty that obligates us to act were approved by the full Senate. If you want to believe this overcomes the Constitution you err. Think of it as a supplement. This is a difficult concept, isn't it? Many people stumble and fall over it.

So, if 2/3 of the Senate vote yes then they can "supplement" as it chooses.
Supplement to the Constitution. You do have a sense of humor. A supplement.
It is difficult. I know. Treaties are serious things.

[MisterVeritis]

Isn't it interesting that all the showboats in the Congress are more interested in a Saudi citizen murdered by the Saudi government in Turkey than they are about American citizens?

Why hasn't the wall been fully funded?
Why does the Congress fail to overhaul immigration to save this nation?