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Peter1469
12-01-2018, 04:05 PM
Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order' (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/military-warns-emp-attack-could-wipe-out-america-democracy-world-order)

The military conducted a study about the effects of an EMP attack on the US- as if another study was needed.


In an extraordinary and sobering report (https://media.defense.gov/2018/Nov/28/2002067172/-1/-1/0/LP_0002_DEMAIO_ELECTROMAGNETIC_DEFENSE_TASK_FORCE. PDF) meant to educate the nation on a growing threat, a new military study warns that an electromagnetic pulse weapon attack such as those developed by North Korea, Russia, and Iran could essentially challenge the United States and displace millions.

“Based on the totality of available data,” said the report from the Air Force’s Air University and provided to Secrets, “an electromagnetic spectrum attack may be a threat to the United States, democracy, and the world order.”


The report, titled, “Electromagnetic Defense Task Force,” and the product of a mostly classified summit of officials from 40 agencies just outside of Washington earlier this year, is a forceful call for a new focus on preparing for either an enemy EMP attack or a natural hit such as a solar storm.

jigglepete
12-01-2018, 04:09 PM
It's stuff like this that makes me understand why "preppers" prep...that and why it would be a reasonable goal to go totally off grid...

Captdon
12-01-2018, 04:51 PM
I can't believe we can't do the same thing to them as soon as they launch. That's not a solution but it evens the field.

Mini Me
12-01-2018, 04:52 PM
Happy Holidays!

Pete, please cool it on the Doomsday stuff, OK?

I just want to see "warm and fuzzy" stuff, with rainbow moonbeans and Unicorns.

Its the Holidays, man!

Peter1469
12-01-2018, 05:16 PM
I can't believe we can't do the same thing to them as soon as they launch. That's not a solution but it evens the field.

We could do the same thing.

gamewell45
12-01-2018, 05:16 PM
Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order' (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/military-warns-emp-attack-could-wipe-out-america-democracy-world-order)

The military conducted a study about the effects of an EMP attack on the US- as if another study was needed.
Scary stuff. Some people have no clue how life would change in the event of an EMP attack or solar flare event.

Peter1469
12-01-2018, 05:16 PM
Happy Holidays!

Pete, please cool it on the Doomsday stuff, OK?

I just want to see "warm and fuzzy" stuff, with rainbow moonbeans and Unicorns.

Its the Holidays, man!
It is December 1st. Wait until the 24th.

Peter1469
12-01-2018, 05:17 PM
Scary stuff. Some people have no clue how life would change in the event of an EMP attack or solar flare event.

It would be a shock.

gamewell45
12-01-2018, 05:22 PM
It would be a shock.
Literally. The current way of life would evaporate in milliseconds, quite possibly never to return to today's way of life.

Peter1469
12-01-2018, 05:38 PM
Literally. The current way of life would evaporate in milliseconds, quite possibly never to return to today's way of life.
It would likely take years to rebuild. And a great number of people will not survive.

Tahuyaman
12-01-2018, 06:29 PM
Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order'
While and EMP attack would be a serious thing, that's a tad over dramatic.

jimmyz
12-01-2018, 06:37 PM
I'm ready.

Arizona weather
Pallets of water and freeze dried foodstuffs
Solar power generator
A second mountain home in a dense alpine forrest
Weapons and ammo
20 local extended family members to consolidate security and protection

I like our chances

Peter1469
12-01-2018, 06:55 PM
I'm ready.

Arizona weather
Pallets of water and freeze dried foodstuffs
Solar power generator
A second mountain home in a dense alpine forrest
Weapons and ammo
20 local extended family members to consolidate security and protection

I like our chances

I am not in a good location - maybe when I retire.

But I have plenty of food and a good bit of water.

Mister D
12-01-2018, 06:59 PM
"Prepping" for a genuine threat to human civilization is like making sure you know where the exits are on the plane if you crash into the ocean.

Peter1469
12-01-2018, 07:05 PM
"Prepping" for a genuine threat to human civilization is like making sure you know where the exits are on the plane if you crash into the ocean.

I disagree. Also, being prepared for short term power outages is wise as well. I get a kick out of the news reports of crowded stores and empty shelves when a major storm approaches.

Cthulhu
12-01-2018, 07:11 PM
It would likely take years to rebuild. And a great number of people will not survive.Nearly a century to rebuild I would wager.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Peter1469
12-01-2018, 07:12 PM
Nearly a century to rebuild I would wager.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Why do you say a century?

Cthulhu
12-01-2018, 07:13 PM
"Prepping" for a genuine threat to human civilization is like making sure you know where the exits are on the plane if you crash into the ocean.Wut?

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Cthulhu
12-01-2018, 07:18 PM
Why do you say a century?I've read some articles saying that nearly 90 percent of the US population would sure in one year. And half of the remaining would die later on.

With that tremendous amount lost would take a lot of knowledge with them.

We would see lost technology. Also the flood of other peoples would inevitably lead to warfare. When warfare is constant it is difficult to develop and rediscover technology. Also difficult to rebuild infrastructure when food and safety is scarce.

Also with that many dead, we just would not have the bodies to rebuild what we presently have in a few years. Hence why I think a century is a fair estimate.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Mister D
12-01-2018, 07:23 PM
Wut?

Sent from my evil cell phone.

lol IOW, you're probably not going to make it.

Mister D
12-01-2018, 07:26 PM
I disagree. Also, being prepared for short term power outages is wise as well. I get a kick out of the news reports of crowded stores and empty shelves when a major storm approaches.
I don't disagree that being prepared for storms and short term disturbances is wise but I think it's delusional to believe you can be prepared for a civilization ending disaster. Luck and more fortunate circumstances will play a far greater role in survival than your canned food and AR-15.

Cthulhu
12-01-2018, 07:28 PM
lol IOW, you're probably not going to make it.Certainly the odds are against you.

But the first rule of surviving anything is to not give up and wave the white flag.

A great deal of preppers are going to die too. But they will have better odds of living is all.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Mister D
12-01-2018, 07:36 PM
Certainly the odds are against you.

But the first rule of surviving anything is to not give up and wave the white flag.

A great deal of preppers are going to die too. But they will have better odds of living is all.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Acknowledging the uselessness of prepping for a disaster on that scale isn't waving the white flag. It's just that pure, unadulterated good fortune is going to play a bigger role in survival than canned goods, guns and ammo. That said, I don't think about that kind of disaster because it's pointless but I do think it's wise to be prepared for the astronomically more likely event of major short term disturbances.

Tahuyaman
12-01-2018, 07:49 PM
Nearly a century to rebuild I would wager.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

No.

Cthulhu
12-01-2018, 07:51 PM
Acknowledging the uselessness of prepping for a disaster on that scale isn't waving the white flag. It's just that pure, unadulterated good fortune is going to play a bigger role in survival than canned goods, guns and ammo. That said, I don't think about that kind of disaster because it's pointless but I do think it's wise to be prepared for the astronomically more likely event of major short term disturbances.I see your perspective now. It makes sense.

No man is an island.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Cthulhu
12-01-2018, 07:53 PM
No.Brilliant rebuttal.

*Eyeroll*

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Tahuyaman
12-01-2018, 07:54 PM
I've read some articles saying that nearly 90 percent of the US population would sure in one year. And half of the remaining would die later on.

With that tremendous amount lost would take a lot of knowledge with them.

We would see lost technology. Also the flood of other peoples would inevitably lead to warfare. When warfare is constant it is difficult to develop and rediscover technology. Also difficult to rebuild infrastructure when food and safety is scarce.

Also with that many dead, we just would not have the bodies to rebuild what we presently have in a few years. Hence why I think a century is a fair estimate.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

There would be no "lost technology". You can't uninvent things. Nothing woill need to be "rediscovered". We would not lose so much human capital and intelligence that we couldn't recover fully within a couple of years and improve upon that.

It's also not going to result in constant warfare.

Tahuyaman
12-01-2018, 07:54 PM
Brilliant rebuttal.

*Eyeroll*

Sent from my evil cell phone. eye roll.

Cthulhu
12-01-2018, 08:09 PM
There would be no "lost technology". You can't uninvent things. Nothing woill need to be "rediscovered". We would not lose so much human capital and intelligence that we couldn't recover fully within a couple of years and improve upon that.

It's also not going to result in constant warfare.Okay. You're an optimist.

Hakuna Matata.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Tahuyaman
12-01-2018, 09:07 PM
Okay. You're an optimist.

Hakuna Matata.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

No, I'm a realist. Nothing would need to be reinvented. The rebuilding process would be much quicker because these things have already been invented.


The human loss would come primarily from the underclass and the most needy. The people who don't have the ability to take care of them self.


You were probably in panic mode just prior to Y2K, right?

Mini Me
12-01-2018, 09:32 PM
We could do the same thing.

Like the evil Doctor Strangelove says; M.A.D. Mutually assured destruction!

That's not at all progressive!

Mini Me
12-01-2018, 09:45 PM
I can't begin to tell you all how depressing this subject is to me!

Its hard enough just to hang on and stay alive now with health issues and no $$.

Straw, broke camels back.......

OK, Now PILE ON YOU BASTARDS! Its what you love to do!

jimmyz
12-01-2018, 10:20 PM
I am not in a good location - maybe when I retire.

But I have plenty of food and a good bit of water.
I live in the Phoenix burbs and have the luxury of space in my business to stockpile pallets of anything I wish. We have our mountain home at 7K above sea level in the Arizona White Mountains to bug-out to.

I am fortunate. Thank God.

Room for you and your gal if you can make it to me brother.

Peter1469
12-01-2018, 10:22 PM
I live in the Phoenix burbs and have the luxury of space in my business to stockpile pallets of anything I wish. We have our mountain home at 7K above sea level in the Arizona White Mountains to bug-out to.

I am fortunate. Thank God.

Room for you and your gal if you can make it to me brother.
Much appreciated.

jimmyz
12-01-2018, 10:25 PM
I can't begin to tell you all how depressing this subject is to me!

Its hard enough just to hang on and stay alive now with health issues and no $$.

Straw, broke camels back.......

OK, Now PILE ON YOU BASTARDS! Its what you love to do!

My moral compass would lead me to scoop you up and make you a part of my tribe. I would feed you and hope that you would be a positive force in our endeavor. If you pulled any derision shit and stuff I would have no problem executing you.

Mini Me
12-01-2018, 10:49 PM
My moral compass would lead me to scoop you up and make you a part of my tribe. I would feed you and hope that you would be a positive force in our endeavor. If you pulled any derision shit and stuff I would have no problem executing you.

Gee, uh....thanks! My opinion never killed anyone. But you would kill me over an opinion?

That's mighty white of you!MAGA!

jimmyz
12-01-2018, 10:57 PM
Gee, uh....thanks! My opinion never killed anyone. But you would kill me over an opinion?

That's mighty white of you!MAGA!

You misunderstood my post. Maybe I was unclear.

I have love for all Americans and would promote your inclusion in a survival scenario.

If you threaten any part of our goal, you would be left roadside for the coyotes feast. Si Claro?

Mini Me
12-02-2018, 12:26 AM
You misunderstood my post. Maybe I was unclear.

I have love for all Americans and would promote your inclusion in a survival scenario.

If you threaten any part of our goal, you would be left roadside for the coyotes feast. Si Claro?

I am a Team Player, Coach!There is no place for dullards and 'neer do wells and parasites.
In my mountain playground, we have mining shafts that swallow scumbags up.

Tahuyaman
12-02-2018, 12:52 AM
It took longer than usual for this one to get diverted into the gutter

Cthulhu
12-02-2018, 07:37 AM
No, I'm a realist. Nothing would need to be reinvented. The rebuilding process would be much quicker because these things have already been invented.


The human loss would come primarily from the underclass and the most needy. The people who don't have the ability to take care of them self.


You were probably in panic mode just prior to Y2K, right?Hakuna Matata.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

donttread
12-02-2018, 09:16 AM
Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order' (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/military-warns-emp-attack-could-wipe-out-america-democracy-world-order)

The military conducted a study about the effects of an EMP attack on the US- as if another study was needed.


Yup, we are life sustaining dependent on a fragile grid . We've known it for a long time during which we simply become more dependent upon it like a Ostrich with it's head in the sand

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 09:20 AM
No, I'm a realist. Nothing would need to be reinvented. The rebuilding process would be much quicker because these things have already been invented.


The human loss would come primarily from the underclass and the most needy. The people who don't have the ability to take care of them self.


You were probably in panic mode just prior to Y2K, right?
I don't think it would be a century long recovery, but certainly several years (with the exception of replacing the population). The article has an extensive list of the problems that would led to mass casualties.

I have read that the very large transformers that power electric stations are only made outside of the US and there is a 3 year waiting list currently. If that is true, it does not bode well if our grid collapses. I suppose we could come up with something new and perhaps based on "local energy" so we wouldn't have a few large grids. There is talk of doing that now.

zachroidott
12-02-2018, 09:28 AM
Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order'
While and EMP attack would be a serious thing, that's a tad over dramatic.
All logistics would be down. No food on shelves means bedlam to barbarism in less than a week. We are all 6 meals away from savagery.

Admiral Ackbar
12-02-2018, 09:29 AM
You see what it would be like on a small scale every time a natural disaster hits. No gas, no food in stores and everyone waiting for someone to help them.

Imagine that on national scale and no calvary in the form of Red Cross, Salvation Army, local churches, no insurance money no, government rescue.. nothing..

Civiliztion would recover there would be millions dead however.. No clean water, no sanitation, no power for medical equipment, no medicine, no AC, no power tools to do the work...

Helena
12-02-2018, 09:32 AM
All logistics would be down. No food on shelves means bedlam to barbarism in less than a week. We are all 6 meals away from savagery.

Speak for yourself. 6 seems like a lot.






I'm hungry.

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 09:37 AM
All logistics would be down. No food on shelves means bedlam to barbarism in less than a week. We are all 6 meals away from savagery.
People in hospitals will be a risk; people who rely on refrigeration like diabetics on insulin will be at risk; how many people could survive a harsh winter without electricity? Etc.

Helena
12-02-2018, 09:40 AM
You guys are making all of this sound better and better.

Admiral Ackbar
12-02-2018, 09:43 AM
So this is a chicken and the egg at work. We have all the modern marvels of technology. I am not talking about computers and TVs only, but grocery stores and the ability eat fresh produce from Chile in the middle of the northern winter etc.. This allows us to focus on all manner of things to improve our state even more.

Take away the lack of need to attend to the basics of survival and almost all of us will have no idea how to survive.

BTW it does not have to be an enemy that does this. A solar storm could do the trick..

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 09:45 AM
So this is a chicken and the egg at work. We have all the modern marvels of technology. I am not talking about computers and TVs only, but grocery stores and the ability eat fresh produce from Chile in the middle of the northern winter etc.. This allows us to focus on all manner of things to improve our state even more.

Take away the lack of need to attend to the basics of survival and almost all of us will have no idea how to survive.

BTW it does not have to be an enemy that does this. A solar storm could do the trick..

A bad solar storm could be much worse. Large enough would be an extinction event.

Captdon
12-02-2018, 09:45 AM
Scary stuff. Some people have no clue how life would change in the event of an EMP attack or solar flare event.

or a virus that always kills and there is no way to stop it.

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 09:51 AM
or a virus that always kills and there is no way to stop it.

A deadly airborne virus is another possibility to be concerned about.

gamewell45
12-02-2018, 10:01 AM
or a virus that always kills and there is no way to stop it.

Sort of like the Capt Tripps virus that wiped out 99% of the human population in Stephen King's book "The Stand".

Tahuyaman
12-02-2018, 11:19 AM
All logistics would be down. No food on shelves means bedlam to barbarism in less than a week. We are all 6 meals away from savagery.

Everything is doom and gloom with a liberal we are all just a paycheck away from homelessness and now six meals away from savagery.

Tahuyaman
12-02-2018, 11:22 AM
I don't think it would be a century long recovery, but certainly several years (with the exception of replacing the population). The article has an extensive list of the problems that would led to mass casualties.

I have read that the very large transformers that power electric stations are only made outside of the US and there is a 3 year waiting list currently. If that is true, it does not bode well if our grid collapses. I suppose we could come up with something new and perhaps based on "local energy" so we wouldn't have a few large grids. There is talk of doing that now.

I agree that it would cause a massive amount of damage which would take time to recover from, I'm just disagreeing that it would take 100+ years for this recovery and that it would not lead to the savagery some predict.

countryboy
12-02-2018, 11:26 AM
Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order' (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/military-warns-emp-attack-could-wipe-out-america-democracy-world-order)

The military conducted a study about the effects of an EMP attack on the US- as if another study was needed.

This reminds me of the hyperbole that was Y2K. While an EMP attack is a very real threat, I think it's a stretch to conclude it would result in a complete breakdown of the civil society. I think "Democratic socialism" is just as big of a threat.

Tahuyaman
12-02-2018, 11:32 AM
Hakuna Matata.

Sent from my evil cell phone.
There would be problems. Just not nearly to the degree you think.

Grokmaster
12-02-2018, 11:44 AM
Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order' (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/military-warns-emp-attack-could-wipe-out-america-democracy-world-order)

The military conducted a study about the effects of an EMP attack on the US- as if another study was needed.

My '58 Panhead, '69 Mustang, '66 F-250 4WD, old, Wisconsin 2cy. gas generator, and all of my non-digital appliances will all run FINE post EMP...as will all my firearms, and dog.

BRING ON THE APOCALYPSE...I'll just become a marauder...I've always wanted to maraud !!

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 11:45 AM
Sort of like the Capt Tripps virus that wiped out 99% of the human population in Stephen King's book "The Stand".

That was a good book.

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 11:47 AM
My '58 Panhead, '69 Mustang, and '66 F-250 4WD, and old, Wisconsin 2cy. gas generator, and all of my non-digital appliances will all run FINE post EMP...as will all my firearms, and dog.

BRING ON THE APOCALYPSE...I'll just become a marauder...I've always wanted to maraud !!

I should find an old EMP proof truck or jeep.

Grokmaster
12-02-2018, 12:01 PM
I should find an old EMP proof truck or jeep.

Anything with a STANDARD IGNITION...points, condenser, oil-filled coil.

No electronic ignition, even very early ones, or magnetos will survive....


Pre-1972 in most American vehicles , except MOPAR, which had electronic ignition in 1971. Trucks and generators ran standard ignition sometime longer, in many cases, and most imports well into the 70's.


You would need TUBE-POWERED RADIO...as anything transisterized would also be ruined....

zachroidott
12-02-2018, 12:07 PM
Everything is doom and gloom with a liberal we are all just a paycheck away from homelessness and now six meals away from savagery.

Jesus. I'm not a "liberal", and you are clearly lacking imagination.

zachroidott
12-02-2018, 12:10 PM
There would be problems. Just not nearly to the degree you think.
An EMP would cripple any unprotected electronics, i.e., the vast majority of our infrastructure and logistics, and it would take years to repair, assuming such an organized concerted effort could even take place. Good luck if you live near a reactor within a month.
You talk too much.

zachroidott
12-02-2018, 12:12 PM
350 million people without goods or services that can't start their car or heat their homes.

Grokmaster
12-02-2018, 12:12 PM
An EMP would cripple any unprotected electronics, i.e., the vast majority of our infrastructure and logistics, and it would take years to repair, assuming such an organized concerted effort could even take place. Good luck if you live near a reactor within a month.
You talk too much.


My place would be fine. Only my most modern (digital) devices would be affected.

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 12:13 PM
An EMP would cripple any unprotected electronics, i.e., the vast majority of our infrastructure and logistics, and it would take years to repair, assuming such an organized concerted effort could even take place. Good luck if you live near a reactor within a month.
You talk too much.
Nuke plants would melt down when their limited generator power died.

zachroidott
12-02-2018, 12:19 PM
My place would be fine. Only my most modern (digital) devices would be affected.

What will you do for food and meds?

Tahuyaman
12-02-2018, 12:31 PM
350 million people without goods or services that can't start their car or heat their homes.
Not everyone would be unable to heat their home or start their car. I have two cars that will run just fine and I could heat my home quite nicely. Plus, I wouldn't miss a meal.

Again, the underclass which is dependent upon the generosity of others would be in trouble.

zachroidott
12-02-2018, 12:34 PM
Not everyone would be unable to heat their home or start their car. I have two cars that will run just fine and I could heat my home quite nicely. Plus, I wouldn't miss a meal.

Again, the underclass which is dependent upon the generosity of others would be in trouble.
Lol...and at your doorstep.

Mini Me
12-02-2018, 02:44 PM
You see what it would be like on a small scale every time a natural disaster hits. No gas, no food in stores and everyone waiting for someone to help them.

Imagine that on national scale and no calvary in the form of Red Cross, Salvation Army, local churches, no insurance money no, government rescue.. nothing..

Civiliztion would recover there would be millions dead however.. No clean water, no sanitation, no power for medical equipment, no medicine, no AC, no power tools to do the work...
Hence; Paradise, CA. On a smaller scale.

Mini Me
12-02-2018, 02:47 PM
So this is a chicken and the egg at work. We have all the modern marvels of technology. I am not talking about computers and TVs only, but grocery stores and the ability eat fresh produce from Chile in the middle of the northern winter etc.. This allows us to focus on all manner of things to improve our state even more.

Take away the lack of need to attend to the basics of survival and almost all of us will have no idea how to survive.

BTW it does not have to be an enemy that does this. A solar storm could do the trick..

If an enemy really wanted to destroy us, they would drop a fifty kiloton nuke on Yellowstone park, and that would blow the caldera wide open and destroy most of the US!

Mini Me
12-02-2018, 02:50 PM
or a virus that always kills and there is no way to stop it.

Like the Pneumonic Plague!Much worse than the Bubonic Plague!
Or Ebola!

MisterVeritis
12-02-2018, 02:50 PM
Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order' (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/military-warns-emp-attack-could-wipe-out-america-democracy-world-order)

The military conducted a study about the effects of an EMP attack on the US- as if another study was needed.
EMP would cause democracy as no other form of governance would be possible.

Mini Me
12-02-2018, 02:53 PM
This reminds me of the hyperbole that was Y2K. While an EMP attack is a very real threat, I think it's a stretch to conclude it would result in a complete breakdown of the civil society. I think "Democratic socialism" is just as big of a threat.

That's crazy! Dem Soc would save many lives!Your indoctrination is complete, I see!

zachroidott
12-02-2018, 02:53 PM
If an enemy really wanted to destroy us, they would drop a fifty kiloton nuke on Yellowstone park, and that would blow the caldera wide open and destroy most of the US!


Most of the world within a few seasons under that dust cloud.

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 02:55 PM
EMP would cause democracy as no other for of governance would be possible.

Yes, democracy at the local level. Chaos in the meantime.

zachroidott
12-02-2018, 02:56 PM
Yes, democracy at the local level. Chaos in the meantime.
Most of us wouldn't even know what happened. How could we.

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 03:04 PM
Most of us wouldn't even know what happened. How could we.

You would know the SHTF.

MisterVeritis
12-02-2018, 03:24 PM
I spent almost a year studying our electrical grid and its fragility in relation to electromagnetic pulse (EMP) and coronal mass ejection (CME). I also wrote a book on the subject. You can find it on Amazon.

Here is what I believe.

In either event, any device containing fine wires would stop working. Any conductor with a long run (measured in tens of feet or more) would superheat and break. The longer the run the greater the fire danger. In less than one minute everything you know about how to live day to day will be obsolete.

The first thing you might notice is the end of electricity. With that, there will be no clean water, and no sewage disposal. There will be no Internet. No phones. No computers. No tablets. No news. No financial services. Almost no cars. No refrigeration. No heating or cooling. No elevators.

After a day or two, there will be no fresh food. No perishable medicines. No modern hospitals. No transportation. No law enforcement.

Anyone who can walk out of a city will try to do so. Where do one hundred million people go?

In a month almost everyone with a modern disease will be dead. That is about one in five of us. What do we do with the bodies?
In two months anyone needing the care of another will be dead. We will see the rise of waterborne diseases. About one-quarter of us will die.

Then it gets better. We will have too much heat or not enough heat. We will never again have too much food.

If this is caused by a CME the place to be is near the equator.
If this is caused by enemy action, one or more EMP devices over the US then Canada, the US, and Mexico will all be in the same predicament.

People are resilient. Some, perhaps many, will band together. Some bands will be good. Others will be bad.

There will be islands of electricity. Very small, at first. Dictatorships will arise wherever electricity is available.

And a good time will be had by all.

donttread
12-02-2018, 04:00 PM
EMP would cause democracy as no other form of governance would be possible.

Think tribal .

MisterVeritis
12-02-2018, 04:03 PM
Think tribal .
Even tribal is not democratic. Tribalism is usually centered on one strong man.

donttread
12-02-2018, 04:31 PM
350 million people without goods or services that can't start their car or heat their homes.


And yet we knowingly put ourselves in this position. Evena solar flare could send us into chaos and even worse for urbanities.

zachroidott
12-02-2018, 05:12 PM
And yet we knowingly put ourselves in this position. Evena solar flare could send us into chaos and even worse for urbanities.
Gubmint on the ball. Of course, they'd probably have to raise taxes.lol

jimmyz
12-02-2018, 07:09 PM
I should find an old EMP proof truck or jeep.

Make your garage a variday cage.

Peter1469
12-02-2018, 07:44 PM
Make your garage a variday cage.

I live in a condo. No garage.

I wonder how hard it would be to do that with a garage.

MisterVeritis
12-02-2018, 08:11 PM
I live in a condo. No garage.

I wonder how hard it would be to do that with a garage.
It is trivial if you have the money and patience. A faraday cage is a good idea. it won't help you. But it will make you feel better.

jimmyz
12-02-2018, 08:15 PM
I live in a condo. No garage.

I wonder how hard it would be to do that with a garage.

Google

Send me a record and I will send you Sat coordinates for your use in the event of....

jimmyz
12-02-2018, 08:16 PM
It is trivial if you have the money and patience. A faraday cage is a good idea. it won't help you. But it will make you feel better.

You too

Google

Send me a record and I will send you Sat coordinates for your use in the event of....

MisterVeritis
12-02-2018, 08:39 PM
And yet we knowingly put ourselves in this position. Evena solar flare could send us into chaos and even worse for urbanities.
This is untrue. Why must you always screw up?

MisterVeritis
12-02-2018, 08:40 PM
It is trivial if you have the money and patience. A faraday cage is a good idea. it won't help you. But it will make you feel better.

You too
Google
Send me a record and I will send you Sat coordinates for your use in the event of....
This makes no sense to me.

Cthulhu
12-03-2018, 05:31 AM
I agree that it would cause a massive amount of damage which would take time to recover from, I'm just disagreeing that it would take 100+ years for this recovery and that it would not lead to the savagery some predict.Think about it this way.

We already have savagery and crime - and the grid works just fine right now.

It won't get better when the power doesn't come back on.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Peter1469
12-03-2018, 05:37 AM
Think about it this way.

We already have savagery and crime - and the grid works just fine right now.

It won't get better when the power doesn't come back on.

Sent from my evil cell phone.
It will get much worse.

Peter1469
12-03-2018, 05:47 AM
This is a good series. (https://www.amazon.com/Second-After-John-Matherson-Novel/dp/0765327252) There are 4 books in it, fiction, about what could happen after an EMP attack. William Fortschen wrote the first book at Newt Gingrich's request to explain the results of the Congressional EMP Commission (http://www.empcommission.org/).

Fortschen was going to write a nonfiction book, but Newt said the Commission's report speaks for itself and a work of fiction would likely be read by more people than nonfiction. The series hits on all of the findings of the Commission, which laid out pretty much a worse case scenario.

You don't need to accept the worse case scenario of an EMP attack to enjoy the books. They are well written and entertaining.

Archer0915
12-03-2018, 05:58 AM
If it were an east vs west thing, it would depend on the shielding for our technology.

Cannons Front
12-03-2018, 07:01 AM
I agree that it would cause a massive amount of damage which would take time to recover from, I'm just disagreeing that it would take 100+ years for this recovery and that it would not lead to the savagery some predict.

I think the Savagery is possible in places, I think the really big cities would be hell on earth. NYC, Chicago, LA really all of the multi-million people cities would go to chaos quickly. These mega cities are so big, they are just to big scale to help, order would disappear quickly and the scope would overwhelm whatever outside help may be available.
As you move away from the metro areas you will find a better place, In my opinion.

Helena
12-07-2018, 07:17 AM
How to Invent Everything: A Survival Guide for the Stranded Time Traveler
https://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/how-to-invent-everything.png

Lummy
12-07-2018, 07:53 AM
When Amazon reviews matter, as they often do for books, I judge by the lowest ratings.

I find that about 50% of the lowest ratings (for anything, not just books) are for shipping, packaging problems, a rare DOA or other technical issues or aberrations. Another 40% of the lowest ratings are from people who obviously just want to malign the product or company with no good reason, possibly competitors. About 8% are complaints that are just weird, like "my dog ate it". That leaves 2% that I deem to be valid, legitimate and actually troublesome. On those and only those reviews do I base my decision to purchase, if reviews matter at all. I rarely read the rest since it's all so subjective. I just process the picture of the chart.

This looks like a good book. I have a "wish list" of books that I've similarly judged. They have been sitting there for years. LOL.