An Extra $500 A Month? 100 Residents To Be Selected For Basic Income Pilot Program

[Peter1469]

An Extra $500 A Month? 100 Residents To Be Selected For Basic Income Pilot Program (https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/12/12/stockton-basic-income-pilot-program/)

This is not the universal basic income program thought up by libertarians where UBI replaced all other forms of social welfare. This pilot program will give 100 city residents an extra $500 / month on top of any other assistance that they may get. They intend to track these people for stress and health levels, and compare them to another 100 who won't get the $500 a month. I guess the idea is to help people living pay-check to pay-check have a little breathing room.



[T]he Stockton Economic Empowerment Demonstration program (SEED) is sending letters to people who may be eligible to get $500 a month with no strings attached.


“I think for the people that really need it, it will be good for them, like a lot of people say groceries, rent, car payment, even if you want to help a family member, anything extra is good to get,” Miranda said.


A team of independent researchers will pick 100 people to receive the money. The purpose is to study how an extra $500 a month impacts people’s health and stress level. Researchers are also looking to see if people feel financially secure.

“Around this country, especially in communities like Stockton, people are working incredibly hard and falling further and further behind. We have people in our community that work two or three jobs, we have people that are working and still can’t pay rent,” said Mayor Michael Tubbs.


The researchers will also have a comparison group as part of the program. It consists of 200 additional people who will get a $20 gift card for filling out surveys and provide feedback.


“People who are working incredibly hard are smart and they don’t have money because they are not good with money, they don’t have money because jobs aren’t paying enough for folks to live and survive. We believe something as small as $500 a month can make a world of difference,” he said.

Based on the limited information in the article, I would not call this a UBI program, but rather a work-fare program - the government supplementing low paying jobs to encourage work over full welfare benefits.

[Common]

I see it much differently Peter, its the Govt meaning you and I, subsidizing business that dont want to pay their employees enough.

If they believe these people are under duress, have high stress and health problems, instead of giving them MY Money, force the employer to pay more. Raise the minimum wage

[MisterVeritis]

I see it much differently Peter, its the Govt meaning you and I, subsidizing business that dont want to pay their employees enough.

If they believe these people are under duress, have high stress and health problems, instead of giving them MY Money, force the employer to pay more. Raise the minimum wage
I see it as creeping socialism. If you want to earn more be worth more.

[Common]

I see it as creeping socialism. If you want to earn more be worth more.

Nonesense, everyone with a brain knows there are employers that pay less than the value they recieve from their employees just because they can.

This bowing godlike for employers and treating employees like chattel is bullshit. There would be no employers without employees and its the employees that make the employer money.

Every small business guy I know what whines he cant keep employees is because he treats them like shit or pays them like shit.

[MisterVeritis]

Nonesense, everyone with a brain knows there are employers that pay less than the value they recieve from their employees just because they can.
Those of us with brains and skills know employees are paid what they are worth. If you never bothered to get useful skills you ought to plan to struggle.

If you believe you are worth more prove it by finding a better job. Stop being a sponge.

[donttread]

An Extra $500 A Month? 100 Residents To Be Selected For Basic Income Pilot Program (https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/12/12/stockton-basic-income-pilot-program/)

This is not the universal basic income program thought up by libertarians where UBI replaced all other forms of social welfare. This pilot program will give 100 city residents an extra $500 / month on top of any other assistance that they may get. They intend to track these people for stress and health levels, and compare them to another 100 who won't get the $500 a month. I guess the idea is to help people living pay-check to pay-check have a little breathing room.



Based on the limited information in the article, I would not call this a UBI program, but rather a work-fare program - the government supplementing low paying jobs to encourage work over full welfare benefits.


I have long said that such a universal care project cannot involve much cash. Basic housing, food and medical care would be much better. Float more cash into our system and you will just see inflated pricing in rent and other basic goods and services and the program will eventually net little if any value for the average person. Or even the poor.

[MisterVeritis]

I have long said that such a universal care project cannot involve much cash. Basic housing, food and medical care would be much better. Float more cash into our system and you will just see inflated pricing in rent and other basic goods and services and the program will eventually net little if any value for the average person. Or even the poor.
Do you ever defend those of us forced to pay for your pipe dreams?

[MMC]

Pilot program.....so if it works there will be more, huh?

[donttread]

Do you ever defend those of us forced to pay for your pipe dreams?


I defend all of our basic rights. But the table is tilted due to undue influence. I'd be good with a flat tax which certain items are exempt from like basic food items, and the loopholes closed.
However, the idea that capitalism the way we did it is the final evolution of economic systems is downright silly. Almost as silly as pretending that true capitalism still exist in most industries. These megacorps manipulate markets and government instead of competing within the markets .

[jimmyz]

Nothing motivates the hungry to feed themselves like being hungry.

I would rather the "$500.00 extra" be made available to the poor workers as compensation for going to school at night and learning English. The positive results would be more tangible.

[hanger4]

Teaching/training marketable skills would better serve the community. ............. Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

[Dr. Who]

Teaching/training marketable skills would better serve the community. ............. Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
That's nice - when is the person working 2 or 3 jobs supposed to find time to go to school? Sleep isn't just an optional thing and working 2 or 3 jobs they aren't likely getting much sleep as it is.

[hanger4]

That's nice - when is the person working 2 or 3 jobs supposed to find time to go to school? Sleep isn't just an optional thing and working 2 or 3 jobs they aren't likely getting much sleep as it is.Just throwing money at the problem solves nothing. The history of 'The War on Poverty' should have already taught that lesson.

[DGUtley]

I am continually amazed at people that I have deposed that don’t work. Just don’t work. I ask them why and they have no reason. Let’s make it worse....

[Peter1469]

I see it much differently Peter, its the Govt meaning you and I, subsidizing business that dont want to pay their employees enough.

If they believe these people are under duress, have high stress and health problems, instead of giving them MY Money, force the employer to pay more. Raise the minimum wage
Minimum wage jobs are typically not worth much more than the current minimum wage. If employers are forced to raise wages beyond what they are worth, those jobs will go away or turned into part time positions with zero benefits. Robots will fill the role of the unskilled and low skilled laborer.

[Peter1469]

Pilot program.....so if it works there will be more, huh?

A pilot in Stockton, California covering 100 people. If successful Stockton will likely increase the number of people that they cover.

[Peter1469]

Nothing motivates the hungry to feed themselves like being hungry.

I would rather the "$500.00 extra" be made available to the poor workers as compensation for going to school at night and learning English. The positive results would be more tangible.
Right- this plan is not really a universal minimum income program. It is more like work-fare.

[zachroidott]

Minimum wage jobs are typically not worth much more than the current minimum wage. If employers are forced to raise wages beyond what they are worth, those jobs will go away or turned into part time positions with zero benefits. Robots will fill the role of the unskilled and low skilled laborer.
No low skill/minimum wage jobs offer benefits any longer. Such is the future for skilled labor. Supply and demand will make it possible for hiring only part time out of the vast and competitive labor pool. Benefits will be a thing of the past. For example, hospital management prefers PRNs. I don't say this as a tree hugger, but our definition of evil socialism is going to have to adapt to the fact that some form of it is inevitable.

[zachroidott]

That's nice - when is the person working 2 or 3 jobs supposed to find time to go to school? Sleep isn't just an optional thing and working 2 or 3 jobs they aren't likely getting much sleep as it is.
Then, there's the debt.

[zachroidott]

No low skill/minimum wage jobs offer benefits any longer. Such is the future for skilled labor. Supply and demand will make it possible for hiring only part time out of the vast and competitive labor pool. Benefits will be a thing of the past. For example, hospital management prefers PRNs. I don't say this as a tree hugger, but our definition of evil socialism is going to have to adapt to the fact that some form of it is inevitable.
Almost forgot automation.

[zachroidott]

No low skill/minimum wage jobs offer benefits any longer. Such is the future for skilled labor. Supply and demand will make it possible for hiring only part time out of the vast and competitive labor pool. Benefits will be a thing of the past. For example, hospital management prefers PRNs. I don't say this as a tree hugger, but our definition of evil socialism is going to have to adapt to the fact that some form of it is inevitable.
I clearly need to go to bed.

[Tahuyaman]

An Extra $500 A Month? 100 Residents To Be Selected For Basic Income Pilot Program
What I see happening is government declaring this as a sweeping success no matter what the actual results may be.

[Tahuyaman]

Do you ever defend those of us forced to pay for your pipe dreams?
While he does support many things which are compatible with being a strict constitutionalist, he is ultimately a class envist and thinks the so called wealthy need to be put in their place.

[Tahuyaman]

Pilot program.....so if it works there will be more, huh?If government wants it to work, it will be declared as working no matter what.

[Tahuyaman]

Nonesense, everyone with a brain knows there are employers that pay less than the value they recieve from their employees just because they can.

This bowing godlike for employers and treating employees like chattel is bull$#@!. There would be no employers without employees and its the employees that make the employer money.

Every small business guy I know what whines he cant keep employees is because he treats them like $#@! or pays them like $#@!.
Employers pay their employees what they are worth based on their skills and their value to the operation.

[Dr. Who]

Employers pay their employees what they are worth based on their skills and their value to the operation.
Not really. Based on my observations, the social butterflies and bootlickers rise to the top - they are generally the most technically incompetent people but they are very adept at crediting themselves for the work of others and kissing ass.

[Helena]

It has failed in Canada and Finland doesn't plan to continue it, but hey, California's gonna get it right.

[Common]

Employers pay their employees what they are worth based on their skills and their value to the operation.

That is pure rote memorized teaparty agenda rhetoric, EVERYONE knows many employers will pay the least they can get away with, to put more in their pocket

Why do you think employers hire illegals instead of americans ?

[Peter1469]

No low skill/minimum wage jobs offer benefits any longer. Such is the future for skilled labor. Supply and demand will make it possible for hiring only part time out of the vast and competitive labor pool. Benefits will be a thing of the past. For example, hospital management prefers PRNs.

I very much doubt that supply and demand will result in only part time / zero position jobs. That does not make any sense. For one, look at the unemployment rate, now around 3.5%. That is very close to 'full employment.' Those left unemployed are usually unemployable due to various reasons. In such situations workers have a good deal of negotiating power when seeking employment or asking for a raise. Even when the unemployment rises, workers- especially good workers still have negotiation power. Poor workers, unskilled and low skill workers however have little negotiating power.


I don't say this as a tree hugger, but our definition of evil socialism is going to have to adapt to the fact that some form of it is inevitable.

One problem is that too many people misuse the term socialism. Socialism is essentially the public (government) ownership of property and the means of production. We don't have that in the West. What we do have is varying degrees of government management / control over welfare programs and the government picking and choosing winners and losers. You are correct that some forms of government meddling in the market is inevitable. All nations in the West have some form of safety nets such as the US Social Security scheme and Medicaid (health insurance coverage for the poor.) The question going forward is whether these programs help more than they hurt and were to draw the line. All nations in the West are flirting with crippling debt and demographics is not in their favor. We are seeing the numbers of workers paying into these systems becoming less in number to the retirees that rely on these programs.

[Peter1469]

An Extra $500 A Month? 100 Residents To Be Selected For Basic Income Pilot Program


What I see happening is government declaring this as a sweeping success no matter what the actual results may be.

Maybe not. It has been tried before in many places and has been declared a failure.

[DGUtley]

Not really. Based on my observations, the social butterflies and bootlickers rise to the top - they are generally the most technically incompetent people but they are very adept at crediting themselves for the work of others and kissing ass.

Boy, while that occasionally happens, I think it is rare anymore. In my business, you have to go out and earn it. Just my observations.

[Peter1469]

Not really. Based on my observations, the social butterflies and bootlickers rise to the top - they are generally the most technically incompetent people but they are very adept at crediting themselves for the work of others and kissing ass.

That may be true in some businesses. But the more competitive the industry sector is the more companies run as a meritocracy. Those that do no fall by the wayside.

[Tahuyaman]

Maybe not. It has been tried before in many places and has been declared a failure.
When has continual demonstrated failure ever stopped government from doing dumb things?

[Tahuyaman]

Not really. Based on my observations, the social butterflies and bootlickers rise to the top - they are generally the most technically incompetent people but they are very adept at crediting themselves for the work of others and kissing ass.


That's true in civil service, but not in the private sector.

[MisterVeritis]

Not really. Based on my observations, the social butterflies and bootlickers rise to the top - they are generally the most technically incompetent people but they are very adept at crediting themselves for the work of others and kissing ass.
Yes, really. It does not matter that you do not see their worth. The company does.

[zachroidott]

I very much doubt that supply and demand will result in only part time / zero position jobs. That does not make any sense. For one, look at the unemployment rate, now around 3.5%. That is very close to 'full employment.'

That's for economists. It in no way determines how many are full-time employees, part-time or early SS recipients. I misused "supply and demand". :blushing emoticon:

[MMC]

Not really. Based on my observations, the social butterflies and bootlickers rise to the top - they are generally the most technically incompetent people but they are very adept at crediting themselves for the work of others and kissing ass.

Were you observing Liberals/Leftists in the Newspaper Industry? :laugh:

[Hoosier8]

I see it much differently Peter, its the Govt meaning you and I, subsidizing business that dont want to pay their employees enough.

If they believe these people are under duress, have high stress and health problems, instead of giving them MY Money, force the employer to pay more. Raise the minimum wage
It would certainly become that just like corporations consider SS as part of your retirement.

[MisterVeritis]

That is pure rote memorized teaparty agenda rhetoric, EVERYONE knows many employers will pay the least they can get away with, to put more in their pocket

Why do you think employers hire illegals instead of Americans?
Employers pay employees what the employee is worth.

If you are not being paid what you are worth then go find an employer who agrees with your assessment. As a hiring manager, I made offers based on our needs and on the amount needed to ensure the employee would come to work for me. Those who were worth more received higher salary offers.

[Captain Obvious]

If you give low income people extra money they will just spend it on booze and cigarettes.

[MisterVeritis]

I very much doubt that supply and demand will result in only part time / zero position jobs. That does not make any sense. For one, look at the unemployment rate, now around 3.5%. That is very close to 'full employment.' Those left unemployed are usually unemployable due to various reasons. In such situations workers have a good deal of negotiating power when seeking employment or asking for a raise. Even when the unemployment rises, workers- especially good workers still have negotiation power. Poor workers, unskilled and low skill workers however have little negotiating power.



One problem is that too many people misuse the term socialism. Socialism is essentially the public (government) ownership of property and the means of production. We don't have that in the West. What we do have is varying degrees of government management / control over welfare programs and the government picking and choosing winners and losers. You are correct that some forms of government meddling in the market is inevitable. All nations in the West have some form of safety nets such as the US Social Security scheme and Medicaid (health insurance coverage for the poor.) The question going forward is whether these programs help more than they hurt and were to draw the line. All nations in the West are flirting with crippling debt and demographics is not in their favor. We are seeing the numbers of workers paying into these systems becoming less in number to the retirees that rely on these programs.
You are right. What the US does is fascist.

[Tahuyaman]

If you give low income people extra money they will just spend it on booze and cigarettes.


Have you seen what a pack of cigarettes costs? A carton is unaffordable to these people. Plus a case of a good beer is $30.00. A bottle of premium bourbon here is about $50.00 because of our huge liquor tax.

[Peter1469]

If you give low income people extra money they will just spend it on booze and cigarettes.

That is one reason this plan is stupid. A true universal basic income would replace all welfare benefits. If the poor waste their UBI there is nothing left for them except charity.