President Trump Caved: Now What?

[MisterVeritis]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?

[Admiral Ackbar]

I am going to go with he will declare National Emergency. I am with holding judgement until the 15th

[Beevee]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?

Now what? Now you are going to find out that Trump can't run the US in the way he ran his bankrupt businesses.

[MMC]

President Trump Caved: Now What?


Now Trump is the Demos whipping post. Its ova.....might as well as resign and Let Pence take it from here.

[Agent Zero]

Lol

[MisterVeritis]

Lol
Do you realize your future just went dim?

[MMC]

The leftness showed Trump just how it is.....Air traffic Controllers calling in sick and not showing up for work. Halting Air Travel to a minimum.


Only thing Trump can do is.....pull a Reagan and fire their asses. Which he will be taken into court on it no matter what.


Best for him to sit back and let Pence run things. At least he will work the Demos over on Religious Liberty and the Pro Life. Maybe even get some Senate Dems hooked up for ethics violations.

[MisterVeritis]

The leftness showed Trump just how it is.....Air traffic Controllers calling in sick and not showing up for work. Halting Air Travel to a minimum.


Only thing Trump can do is.....pull a Reagan and fire their asses. Which he will be taken into court on it no matter what.


Best for him to sit back and let Pence run things. At least he will work the Demos over on Religious Liberty and the Pro Life. Maybe even get some Senate Dems hooked up for ethics violations.
Okay. So President Trump pardons everyone harmed by Mueller. Then he resigns.

[Tahuyaman]

Do you realize your future just went dim?


People like Agent Zero don't care about anything but partisanship and resistence to anything Trump.

However, I've been telling you since Trump won the nomination that there would be no wall or any other border barriers built during his administration. He was bound to cave in because he didn't have a strong Republican congress grounded in constitutional principles to back him up. They are the masters of caving in.

[alexa]

The leftness showed Trump just how it is.....Air traffic Controllers calling in sick and not showing up for work. Halting Air Travel to a minimum.


Only thing Trump can do is.....pull a Reagan and fire their asses. Which he will be taken into court on it no matter what.


Best for him to sit back and let Pence run things. At least he will work the Demos over on Religious Liberty and the Pro Life. Maybe even get some Senate Dems hooked up for ethics violations.

Yes, firing all the ATCs in America would be a brilliant idea.

Your second idea is even more stupid than your first.

[MisterVeritis]

What happens next?

I am suffering from a lack of imagination. How can the United States recover from this catastrophe? I do not see a way. Maybe I will see a way tomorrow.

[Tahuyaman]

What happens next?

I am suffering from a lack of imagination. How can the United States recover from this catastrophe? I do not see a way. Maybe I will see a way tomorrow.
I'm going to survive just fine. I have financial security and can easily maintain that for the rest of my life.

I completely expected this.


It did did look like some of the pragmatic Democrats were getting nervous and starting to break ranks with Pelosi, but they knew that all they had to do was hold on a little while and let the Republicans bend over and capitulate.

[MisterVeritis]

I'm going to survive just fine. I have financial security and can easily maintain that for the rest of my life.

I completely expected this.


It did did look like some of the pragmatic Democrats were getting nervous and starting to break ranks with Pelosi, but they knew that all they had to do was hold on a little while and let the Republicans bend over and capitulate.
I did not expect President Trump to capitulate.

[MMC]

Okay. So President Trump pardons everyone harmed by Mueller. Then he resigns.


Nah....best thing for him to do is run as many leftists out of government that he can. Especially out of DOJ and the State Dept. That will hurt Demos big time. Fire those Air traffic Controllers.


Do whatever he can.....As he now knows Repubs screwed him over. Don't campaign or help any of them out.


Let Mueller play out as Mueller is going to end up making the Demos look like fools.



Go after the Lame Stream Media and do what he can to make their job even more difficult for them.

[MisterVeritis]

I'm going to survive just fine. I have financial security and can easily maintain that for the rest of my life.

I completely expected this.


It did did look like some of the pragmatic Democrats were getting nervous and starting to break ranks with Pelosi, but they knew that all they had to do was hold on a little while and let the Republicans bend over and capitulate.
I was not speaking about personal finances and living well. I was speaking about this nation's future. It looks bleak at this moment.

It is one thing to fight and lose. It is another thing to abandon the field.

[MisterVeritis]

Is it time for revenge?

[MMC]

Yes, firing all the ATCs in America would be a brilliant idea.

Your second idea is even more stupid than your first.


That's what they told Reagan and then he made your kind look like the dipshits you were created as. Evidenced by the whining your kind did and was forced to live with.

[Tahuyaman]

I was not speaking about personal finances and living well. I was speaking about this nation's future. It looks bleak at this moment.

It is one thing to fight and lose. It is another thing to abandon the field.

I don't see the future doom and gloom.

[MisterVeritis]

I don't see the future doom and gloom.
For the nation? I do.

[Tahuyaman]

For the nation? I do.I don't, but I'm generally an optimistic person.

[Just AnotherPerson]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?
Let me help to cheer you up. He is still winning on deregulating. He is still winning on Immigration as a whole, the wall is not the only part of immigration reform. He is still winning on oil drilling and polluting. He is still winning on so many things. He is winning on lowering taxes for the wealthy. So to be clear these things to me are not winning, they are a loss. But I am sure that if you just reflect on all of the things that make most of us want to cry, it will cheer you up, and give you hope.

He will do something in the days to come that will bring back your faith. Just give it some time. He cant win on every single issue. And if he don't do his job of course you still may choose to kick off your revolution. I hope this pep talk cheered you up some. :)

[MMC]

I'm going to survive just fine. I have financial security and can easily maintain that for the rest of my life.

I completely expected this.


It did did look like some of the pragmatic Democrats were getting nervous and starting to break ranks with Pelosi, but they knew that all they had to do was hold on a little while and let the Republicans bend over and capitulate.



And that is what the Repubs did.....Trump can't trust them now. Especially McConnell. Shame McConnell wont be up for re-election until 2022.

[alexa]

What happens next?

I am suffering from a lack of imagination. How can the United States recover from this catastrophe? I do not see a way. Maybe I will see a way tomorrow.

Meh

Trump is now effectively a lame duck

We'll have an election in 2020 and hopefully not elect another incompetent boob and move on.

Turn that frown upside down.

[MisterVeritis]

Let me help to cheer you up. He is still winning on deregulating. He is still winning on Immigration as a whole, the wall is not the only part of immigration reform. He is still winning on oil drilling and polluting. He is still winning on so many things. He is winning on lowering taxes for the wealthy. So to be clear these things to me are not winning, they are a loss. But I am sure that if you just reflect on all of the things that make most of us want to cry, it will cheer you up, and give you hope.

He will do something in the days to come that will bring back your faith. Just give it some time. He cant win on every single issue. And if he don't do his job of course you still may choose to kick off your revolution. I hope this pep talk cheered you up some. :)
President Trump became a lame duck president today. My future is reasonably secure. I am well off. I am retired.

Someone in your generation will start this rebellion or civil war.

[Tahuyaman]

Let me help to cheer you up. He is still winning on deregulating. He is still winning on Immigration as a whole, the wall is not the only part of immigration reform. He is still winning on oil drilling and polluting. He is still winning on so many things. He is winning on lowering taxes for the wealthy. So to be clear these things to me are not winning, they are a loss. But I am sure that if you just reflect on all of the things that make most of us want to cry, it will cheer you up, and give you hope.

He will do something in the days to come that will bring back your faith. Just give it some time. He cant win on every single issue. And if he don't do his job of course you still may choose to kick off your revolution. I hope this pep talk cheered you up some. :)


Replacing leftists with constitutional conservatives on the federal courts is his greatest achievement so far.

[MisterVeritis]

Meh
Trump is now effectively a lame duck
I agree he ended his presidency today.

We'll have an election in 2020 and hopefully not elect another incompetent boob and move on.
Turn that frown upside down.
President Trump was your best hope.

[alexa]

Meh

Trump is now effectively a lame duck

We'll have an election in 2020 and hopefully not elect another incompetent boob and move on.

Turn that frown upside down.


President Trump became a lame duck president today. My future is reasonably secure. I am well off. I am retired.

Someone in your generation will start this rebellion or civil war.

lol

[Beevee]

President Trump became a lame duck president today. My future is reasonably secure. I am well off. I am retired.

Someone in your generation will start this rebellion or civil war.

Have you noticed that liberals are trying to cheer you up today whereas if the opposite had occurred deplorables would be cheering in unison.

[MisterVeritis]

lol
I do not understand your laugh. Is it immaturity? A lack of wisdom? Look to Europe. That is what your future looks like.

[Tahuyaman]

Meh

Trump is now effectively a lame duck

We'll have an election in 2020 and hopefully not elect another incompetent boob and move on.

Turn that frown upside down.


Well, so far every Democrat to announce their candidacy looks to be at least an equally incompetent boob. There might be some reasonable person waiting to move in when those boobs all embarrass themselves, but I Wouldn't count on it.

[MisterVeritis]

Have you noticed that liberals are trying to cheer you up today whereas if the opposite had occurred deplorables would be cheering in unison.
I would cheer for the nation's future. That is gone now. Look to Europe. That is what this nation will look like in five years. Canada will fall when we do.

[Beevee]

I would cheer ffor the nation's future. That is gone now. Look to Europe. That is what this nation will look like in five years. Canada will fall when we do.

Then it's time to learn how to speak Russian and maybe Chinese too.

[Just AnotherPerson]

President Trump became a lame duck president today. My future is reasonably secure. I am well off. I am retired.

Someone in your generation will start this rebellion or civil war.
This reminds me of the bible. When Moses was walking through the desert with his people. They kept loosing faith over and over again. No matter how many times he made things right they always reverted to lack of faith. It happened with Jesus too, he told his disciples how long must I be with you?

The truth is that a person can do a million rights for another person, give them everything in their power, and the one minute they don't give you exactly what you want you forget all that they did for you before. Humans are like this. They forget all of the things you have done for them the minute you fail just once.

Like I said, I don't agree with Trump, or his ways. I see his winning as us all losing. But for your sake, I am just making it clear for you.

How much do you expect? Trump is only human, he is a man. He can only go against the entire nation so much, before there is some push back.

You should not forget how much he has already raped our nation. You should be grateful.

[alexa]

I do not understand your laugh. Is it immaturity? A lack of wisdom? Look to Europe. That is what your future looks like.

I'm laughing at the pain you must be feeling when you realized you agreed with me.

[MMC]

Replacing leftists with constitutional conservatives on the federal courts is his greatest achievement so far.

The Demos won on that issue tho…..they held up 71 nominees. Plus Graham hasn't even kept the process going. Asking for a new list of nominees. When he should have went with who the Demos fucked over with the help from Flake.

[MMC]

This reminds me of the bible. When Moses was walking through the desert with his people. They kept loosing faith over and over again. No matter how many times he made things right they always reverted to lack of faith. It happened with Jesus too, he told his disciples how long must I be with you?

The truth is that a person can do a million rights for another person, give them everything in their power, and the one minute they don't give you exactly what you want you forget all that they did for you before. Humans are like this. They forget all of the things you have done for them the minute you fail just once.

Like I said, I don't agree with Trump, or his ways. I see his winning as us all losing. But for your sake, I am just making it clear for you.

How much do you expect? Trump is only human, he is a man. He can only go against the entire nation so much, before there is some push back.

You should not forget how much he has already raped our nation. You should be grateful.

Well, the Repubs won't turn around and do what they Demos have done. They will reward the Demos and just fight over the scraps the Demos leave them.

[MisterVeritis]

I'm laughing at the pain you must be feeling when you realized you agreed with me.
I see. I think you agreed with me.

You frequently point out that I am old. You are young. I will have to only live for a little while in the twilight of the nation. You will see its demise.

We both lost our futures today. But you lost far more than I did.

[Tahuyaman]

And that is what the Repubs did.....Trump can't trust them now. Especially McConnell. Shame McConnell wont be up for re-election until 2022.

Trump could have gotten everything he wanted had he moderated his tone and acted like a mature adult since his inaguration.

[Private Pickle]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?
Let' see what he actually does... He hasn't done anything yet...

[MisterVeritis]

This reminds me of the bible. When Moses was walking through the desert with his people. They kept loosing faith over and over again. No matter how many times he made things right they always reverted to lack of faith. It happened with Jesus too, he told his disciples how long must I be with you?

The truth is that a person can do a million rights for another person, give them everything in their power, and the one minute they don't give you exactly what you want you forget all that they did for you before. Humans are like this. They forget all of the things you have done for them the minute you fail just once.

Like I said, I don't agree with Trump, or his ways. I see his winning as us all losing. But for your sake, I am just making it clear for you.

How much do you expect? Trump is only human, he is a man. He can only go against the entire nation so much, before there is some push back.

You should not forget how much he has already raped our nation. You should be grateful.
You are about to get an education in socialistic tyranny. You will be worse off, living a shorter life. The good news is you will be equally poor as your neighbors.

[MisterVeritis]

Let' see what he actually does... He hasn't done anything yet...
What do you mean "he hasn't done anything yet?" He caved. He capitulated. He folded a winning hand.

[Private Pickle]

What do you mean "he hasn't done anything yet?" He caved. He capitulated. He folded a winning hand.
What did he do?

[MMC]

Trump could have gotten everything he wanted had he moderated his tone and acted like a mature adult since his inaguration.


I don't think so. Not listening to Rush Limbaugh and Hannity.



“Trump’s biggest cheerleaders in the right-wing media (e.g. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity) and his hardcore anti-immigrant adviser Stephen Miller who egged him on are now responsible for the worst political debacle of his presidency,” she said.

She added, “He’s now trapped, waiting for a permission slip from the right-wing media chorus to capitulate — or watch his support and any hope for legislative accomplishments evaporate.”.....snip~


https://www.rawstory.com/2019/01/trump-is-waiting-for-right-wing-media-to-advise-him-on-shutdown-and-is-trapped/

[Admiral Ackbar]

While I understand that it is a bad day when the Maoists get to pump their fists this will be short lived. The border wall is going up one way or the other. Don't despair Trump will keep at it.


Also remember the alternative to Trump was as indicated below!

25165

Everytime I get down about a set back I remember that the world would be an entirely different and dark place had the old Hag won.

Trump has saved us for a generation.

God Bless America and God Bless Donald Trump

[MMC]

Meh

Trump is now effectively a lame duck

We'll have an election in 2020 and hopefully not elect another incompetent boob and move on.

Turn that frown upside down.



Why, are you losing a couple hundred pounds and plucking out those man hairs from your chin.

[alexa]

I see. I think you agreed with me.

You frequently point out that I am old. You are young. I will have to only live for a little while in the twilight of the nation. You will see its demise.

We both lost our futures today. But you lost far more than I did.
No, I gained. Bigly.

And since you pretty much parroted what I said, you agreed with me.

[alexa]

Why, are you losing a couple hundred pounds and plucking out those man hairs from your chin.

Good one!

[MisterVeritis]

No, I gained. Bigly.
And since you pretty much parroted what I said, you agreed with me.
You lost. You do not yet realize how much you lost. Your future is grim. You will live a smaller life. Your surroundings will be more dangerous for you. You will have less opportunity.

[MMC]

What did he do?
You mean besides cave on the SOTU to Pelosi, and now the Wall funding after Repubs in the House passed it?

He has given the Demos card Blanc.

[MMC]

Good one!

https://franspianostudio.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/251244_134730169938784_128105793934555_236897_4001 178_n.jpg


I.....be good like that!

[Tahuyaman]

The Demos won on that issue tho…..they held up 71 nominees. Plus Graham hasn't even kept the process going. Asking for a new list of nominees. When he should have went with who the Demos $#@!ed over with the help from Flake.
They've held up some, but he has gotten a lot of judical appointments. This is his single greatest accomplishment.

[alexa]

You lost. You do not yet realize how much you lost. Your future is grim. You will live a smaller life. Your surroundings will be more dangerous for you. You will have less opportunity.
Given your recent track record on predicting the future, I'm really not worried, but if it makes you feel better to think that way, go for it.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't think so. Not listening to Rush Limbaugh and Hannity.



“Trump’s biggest cheerleaders in the right-wing media (e.g. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity) and his hardcore anti-immigrant adviser Stephen Miller who egged him on are now responsible for the worst political debacle of his presidency,” she said.

She added, “He’s now trapped, waiting for a permission slip from the right-wing media chorus to capitulate — or watch his support and any hope for legislative accomplishments evaporate.”.....snip~


https://www.rawstory.com/2019/01/trump-is-waiting-for-right-wing-media-to-advise-him-on-shutdown-and-is-trapped/
Limbaugh and Hanity have absolutely nothing to do with any of his failures. They are all on him and him alone.

[Lummy]

What did he do?

After 41 posts someone finally asks Veritis what he's bawling about. :facepalm:

[MMC]

They've held up some, but he has gotten a lot of judical appointments. This is his single greatest accomplishment.

Yeah Eastman counted the 71 that was held up. More importantly the 3 on the 9th Circuit. Which with the other 2 for this year and he could have flipped the 9th. Hewitt was on him for not re-submitting those 3 names yesterday.

[gamewell45]

I don't, but I'm generally an optimistic person.

Agreed; the way i look at things, if life is at its lowest ebb, then it can only get better. People can express their disappointment at the voting booths next election cycle.

[MMC]

Limbaugh and Hanity have absolutely nothing to do with any of his failures. They are all on him and him alone.

Trump has long boasted about his relationship with right-wing media. He contacted Limbaugh personally (https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/rush-limbaugh-claims-trump-personally-contacted-border-wall-feud-hes-shutting-whole-thing/) about the shutdown and admitted that he talks to Hannity on a regular basis. (https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/hannity-phone-call-away-twitter-mocks-trump-tweeted-poor-home-alone/) …..snip~


Yeah, he is responsible for contacting Limbaugh and listening to him about the Shutdown.

[Tahuyaman]

Trump has long boasted about his relationship with right-wing media. He contacted Limbaugh personally (https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/rush-limbaugh-claims-trump-personally-contacted-border-wall-feud-hes-shutting-whole-thing/) about the shutdown and admitted that he talks to Hannity on a regular basis. (https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/hannity-phone-call-away-twitter-mocks-trump-tweeted-poor-home-alone/) …..snip~


Yeah, he is responsible for contacting Limbaugh and listening to him about the Shutdown.
So what? That doesn't make either of them responsible for his failings.

[MMC]

So what? That doesn't make either of them responsible for his failings.


So listening to Limbaugh about support and how Limbaugh thinks it will play out is part of that. That's the so what.


Taking bad advice is on Trump. That is the so what. That doesn't give him the pass for listening to Limbaugh. Who has never been involved in decision making with a shutdown.

[MisterVeritis]

Given your recent track record on predicting the future, I'm really not worried, but if it makes you feel better to think that way, go for it.
You don't know what you are talking about. That is okay.

[MisterVeritis]

After 41 posts someone finally asks Veritis what he's bawling about. :facepalm:
Some people are ignorant. Others are just plain stupid.

[MMC]

Some people are ignorant. Others are just plain stupid.

Cmon now.....no reason to bring Safety into this.

[Tahuyaman]

Trump obviously capitulated, but he is going to be in the same place in three weeks.

Will he cave in again in three weeks? There’s no reason to believe that he won’t. I know that his supporters will not accept any excuses when and if he does.

[Common Sense]

Trump held the country hostage and failed. All his shutdown accomplished was fucking over federal workers.

[Safety]

LoL, Trump supporters are funny to watch when reality hits them.

[roadmaster]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?

Remember when Bush came out and said, "read my lips no new taxes". What happened the media showed this over and over when he was running for reelection because he caved. What do you think they are going to do with Trumps caving. Do you think they didn't save all his speeches about the wall not fence.

[alexa]

Some people are ignorant. Others are just plain stupid.


Remember when Bush came out and said, "read my lips no new taxes". What happened the media showed this over and over when he was running for reelection because he caved. What do you think they are going to do with Trumps caving. Do you think they didn't save all his speeches about the wall not fence.
That wasn't the media, it was his opposition.

Yeah, you can plan on watching the Trumpster fire taking up the mantle of the shutdown on a pretty much continuous loop starting next fall.

[Common]

I am going to go with he will declare National Emergency. I am with holding judgement until the 15th

same

[Common]

Cmon now.....no reason to bring Safety into this.
TB'd for Trolling

[Common Sense]

We haven't heard a lot of complaints here about the cost of this shutdown.

Estimates vary, but the cost to the economy could be in the $40 billion range.

That's one expensive temper tantrum.

[Just AnotherPerson]

You are about to get an education in socialistic tyranny. You will be worse off, living a shorter life. The good news is you will be equally poor as your neighbors.

Because he postponed his fight for the wall?

[Just AnotherPerson]

What do you mean "he hasn't done anything yet?" He caved. He capitulated. He folded a winning hand.

Shutting our gov down and harming the citizens who work to make it run, is not a winning hand. Way to hurt the help.

[alexa]

The best part of his pathetic "victory" speech was watching the sycophants applaud like he won something.

[Safety]

We haven't heard a lot of complaints here about the cost of this shutdown.

Estimates vary, but the cost to the economy could be in the $40 billion range.

That's one expensive temper tantrum.

And on top of that, there was no money for the wall in the bill signed. Zero. Someone should send the invoice to Coulter and Hannity.

[MisterVeritis]

That wasn't the media, it was his opposition.

Yeah, you can plan on watching the Trumpster fire taking up the mantle of the shutdown on a pretty much continuous loop starting next fall.
Maybe. Maybe not.

[alexa]

The best part of his pathetic "victory" speech was watching the sycophants applaud like he won something.

And what's the deal with his obsession with bondage?

[MisterVeritis]

Shutting our gov down and harming the citizens who work to make it run, is not a winning hand. Way to hurt the help.
He did not harm any useful citizens.

[Dr. Who]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?
Good grief. Trump is not a conservative crusader. He is a pretender and a chameleon. Get used to disappointment. Is that veil of blindness starting to get thinner? He's a con man with zero political principles. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

[Just AnotherPerson]

He did not harm any useful citizens.
Well that is a sad statement. So if a person is not pulling their weight. You think that person should not exist. Here we have real decent human beings who work hard, they are good members of society and her you say they are not useful citizens. That is a strange thing to say.

[Dr. Who]

The leftness showed Trump just how it is.....Air traffic Controllers calling in sick and not showing up for work. Halting Air Travel to a minimum.


Only thing Trump can do is.....pull a Reagan and fire their asses. Which he will be taken into court on it no matter what.


Best for him to sit back and let Pence run things. At least he will work the Demos over on Religious Liberty and the Pro Life. Maybe even get some Senate Dems hooked up for ethics violations.

Trump will never let Pence run anything unless he resigns from office.

[MisterVeritis]

Good grief. Trump is not a conservative crusader. He is a pretender and a chameleon. Get used to disappointment. Is that veil of blindness starting to get thinner? He's a con man with zero political principles. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
I am not used to disappointment. I might not be right on this. I saw today as a loss. A big loss. I don't see a way to recover after moving from strength to weakness.

President Trump has surprised me before. So, if you are right I will discover in three weeks that he gets our wall and all is well.

[Just AnotherPerson]

Good grief. Trump is not a conservative crusader. He is a pretender and a chameleon. Get used to disappointment. Is that veil of blindness starting to get thinner? He's a con man with zero political principles. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
Well said!

[MisterVeritis]

Well that is a sad statement. So if a person is not pulling their weight. You think that person should not exist. Here we have real decent human beings who work hard, they are good members of society and her you say they are not useful citizens. That is a strange thing to say.
I don't care if useless citizens exist. I stated President Trump did not harm any useful citizens. He didn't. Pelosi and Schumer did some pretty damaging thing to the Democrats who fill the federal government.

[Dr. Who]

People like Agent Zero don't care about anything but partisanship and resistence to anything Trump.

However, I've been telling you since Trump won the nomination that there would be no wall or any other border barriers built during his administration. He was bound to cave in because he didn't have a strong Republican congress grounded in constitutional principles to back him up. They are the masters of caving in.
Anyone running under the Rep banner should have broad party support or what's the point? Said person will just end up as a lame duck President.

[Chris]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?



Life goes on. It's just politics.

[MisterVeritis]

Anyone running under the Rep banner should have broad party support or what's the point? Said person will just end up as a lame duck President.
Sixty plus million people is broad party support. We have six or seven pathetic, evil, establishment Republicans who should be kicked out of the party. Romney, you know I am talking about you. Collins? I hate your guts. Murkowski, I hope a polar bear eats you.

[MisterVeritis]

Life goes on. It's just politics.
No. It is the future of the nation.

[Common Sense]

Good grief. Trump is not a conservative crusader. He is a pretender and a chameleon. Get used to disappointment. Is that veil of blindness starting to get thinner? He's a con man with zero political principles. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
I'm still amazed that so many couldn't and still can't see that obvious truth.

I guess some are more easily manipulated than others.

[Dr. Who]

Sixty plus million people is broad party support. We have six or seven pathetic, evil, establishment Republicans who should be kicked out of the party. Romney, you know I am talking about you. Collins? I hate your guts. Murkowski, I hope a polar bear eats you.

Do get real MV. The Reps are seriously divided. It's their Achilles heel. Unlike the left, the right is a hodgepodge of fiscal, social, constitutional and libertarian cons who don't agree on most things. Add to that the fact that Trump is an embarrassment to the party and common sense should tell you that he isn't going to be a uniting force. Despite his rhetoric, he doesn't have that kind of people skills. The tepid support that he does receive is simply to avoid being outvoted by the Dems.

[alexa]

Do get real MV. The Reps are seriously divided. It's their Achilles heel. Unlike the left, the right is a hodgepodge of fiscal, social, constitutional and libertarian cons who don't agree on most things. Add to that the fact that Trump is an embarrassment to the party and common sense should tell you that he isn't going to be a uniting force. Despite his rhetoric, he doesn't have that kind of people skills. The tepid support that he does receive is simply to avoid being outvoted by the Dems.

The only conservative imperative is to *own the libtards*

They'd scoop out their own entrails and light them on fire if they thought it would accomplish that.

[Chris]

I'm still amazed that so many couldn't and still can't see that obvious truth.

I guess some are more easily manipulated than others.


Perhaps because truth requires a rational argument to defend. Take Who's diatribe. It is true Trump is not a conservative, that's easy to demonstrate by his policies and words. But the rest is mere name-calling, emotional outburst. No, not saying that because I like or defend Trump, but I do like and defend truth. And can see question begging when I see it.

People are manipulated by the media to the point of TDS. Just look at the MAGA hat boy incident.

[Common Sense]

Do get real MV. The Reps are seriously divided. It's their Achilles heel. Unlike the left, the right is a hodgepodge of fiscal, social, constitutional and libertarian cons who don't agree on most things. Add to that the fact that Trump is an embarrassment to the party and common sense should tell you that he isn't going to be a uniting force. Despite his rhetoric, he doesn't have that kind of people skills. The tepid support that he does receive is simply to avoid being outvoted by the Dems.
To be fair, the Dems are somewhat divided as well. There is a battle among Dems for the future and direction of the party.

The Reps are divided in a different way and their differences have the potential to do far more harm to the party.

[MisterVeritis]

Do get real MV. The Reps are seriously divided. It's their Achilles heel. Unlike the left, the right is a hodgepodge of fiscal, social, constitutional and libertarian cons who don't agree on most things. Add to that the fact that Trump is an embarrassment to the party and common sense should tell you that he isn't going to be a uniting force. Despite his rhetoric, he doesn't have that kind of people skills. The tepid support that he does receive is simply to avoid being outvoted by the Dems.
We do not see things the same way. It is true we don't agree with establishment Republicans on many things.


Democrats, fortunately, are as divided. I have never claimed to want a uniting force. I wanted a disruptor who would rip Democrats out of their hardened positions in the establishment.

[alexa]

https://media.giphy.com/media/PNFXpaRyw4mAg/giphy.gif

[MisterVeritis]

The only conservative imperative is to *own the libtards*

They'd scoop out their own entrails and light them on fire if they thought it would accomplish that.
That is not quite right. I do not recall using the term libtards. I do not want to own liberals. I want to defeat you. Your ideas are wrong for Americans. The real Americans, anyway.

[alexa]

That is not quite right. I do not recall using the term libtards. I do not want to own liberals. I want to defeat you. Your ideas are wrong for Americans. The real Americans, anyway.
Well, Veritis, if nothing else, you are sui generis.

[Common Sense]

Perhaps because truth requires a rational argument to defend. Take Who's diatribe. It is true Trump is not a conservative, that's easy to demonstrate by his policies and words. But the rest is mere name-calling, emotional outburst. No, not saying that because I like or defend Trump, but I do like and defend truth. And can see question begging when I see it.

People are manipulated by the media to the point of TDS. Just look at the MAGA hat boy incident.
I didn't see name calling. Who was describing Trump based on his words and deeds. Con man isn't name calling, it's a description...not based on emotion, but observation.

If you do indeed defend truth, I'd expect you to be highly critical of Trump and his way of misrepresenting facts, making innacurate statements and outright lying.

[Dr. Who]

To be fair, the Dems are somewhat divided as well. There is a battle among Dems for the future and direction of the party.

The Reps are divided in a different way and their differences have the potential to do far more harm to the party.
I agree that the left is divided by degree, but not as fundamentally and disparately as the right. The direction of the left will be dictated by popular support and it could eventually break down into camps as have the Reps, which is why there should be more political choices. The lack of choices is ultimately going to destroy both the Dems and Reps because the people are moving away from the center which was the traditional sweet spot for both parties.

[Common Sense]

That is not quite right. I do not recall using the term libtards. I do not want to own liberals. I want to defeat you. Your ideas are wrong for Americans. The real Americans, anyway.

How do you define "real Americans"? Can someone be a liberal and be a real American?

[MisterVeritis]

I suppose the question is what happens next? In my opinion, President Trump did more harm to him and to us today than he gained by agreeing to end the shutdown. We will know with certainty on 15 February.

[MisterVeritis]

How do you define "real Americans"? Can someone be a liberal and be a real American?
No. Liberals do not support and defend the Constitution. They cannot be real Americans. They are faux Americans. They are dangerous. They must be utterly defeated if we are to survive as a free nation.

[Common Sense]

No. Liberals do not support and defend the Constitution. They cannot be real Americans. They are faux Americans. They are dangerous. They must be utterly defeated if we are to survive as a free nation.
Yikes.

Would you prefer a one party system? Democrats not being "real Americans", should they not be allowed to vote?

[MisterVeritis]

Yikes.

Would you prefer a one party system? Democrats not being "real Americans", should they not be allowed to vote?
I did not say, democrats. I said liberals. I know of no way to prevent liberals from voting. That is why they must be defeated.

[Dr. Who]

We do not see things the same way. It is true we don't agree with establishment Republicans on many things.


Democrats, fortunately, are as divided. I have never claimed to want a uniting force. I wanted a disruptor who would rip Democrats out of their hardened positions in the establishment.
Trump is a disruptive force in the Republican party because he's not a conservative of any kind. The Dems are less divided at this point in time. They may well become just as dysfunctional as the Reps in short order. With a population of over 300M, two parties cannot possibly provide adequate ideological representation, particularly when people are becoming more polarized in their views.

[Common]

To be fair, the Dems are somewhat divided as well. There is a battle among Dems for the future and direction of the party.

The Reps are divided in a different way and their differences have the potential to do far more harm to the party.

I agree with your first statement but do not on the second. The democrat party is in a far more precarious position in my opinion. The situation the democrats are in is being all distorted by full flat out everything positive for democrat position and subsequent reporting.

The real truth is somewhat different, people harp on the Old Angry White Men, but they are forgetting there are millions of democrats in the 40-60 range that arent Old men yet and arent at retirement age who DO NOT LIKE, what they are seeing and what is coming out of the democrat party. Admittedly its diluted by the dislike of trump but the democrat party is on shaky ground come 2020. America does not want socialism and will reject and they do not want medicare for all when the poll questions arent skewed.

Common sense you dont have to say it, I dont expect any liberals to say it, but I believe you ALL every single one of you know that what comes out of the liberal press is not the truth, its not the real picture of anything its only and always only one sided and skewed to make liberals and democrats look and sound good and republicans to sound and look bad.

Thats why all the polls have been wrong

[alexa]

Yes, the only true reporting comes from town hall.com, Breibart and Fox News.

When will the libs ever learn?

[Dr. Who]

I did not say, democrats. I said liberals. I know of no way to prevent liberals from voting. That is why they must be defeated.
Your lack of flexibility must be very stressful. Realistically, the left is the majority and gaining in popularity. Constitutionalism is very academic and entirely lost on the majority of the population, both left and right. The polarization that is occurring between the Dems and Reps is preventing the Constitution from being amended to respond to the will of the people. At some point, something's got to give. If that is some kind of civil war, the existing Constitution is not going to survive. It would be far better to allow at least two more political parties and thus break the existing polarization, so that the Constitution has a chance of being amended.

[Private Pickle]

You mean besides cave on the SOTU to Pelosi, and now the Wall funding after Repubs in the House passed it?

He has given the Demos card Blanc.

What do you mean cave on the SOTU to Pelosi? You seem to think the POTUS has certain rights which he actually doesn't have.

Meanwhile both the House AND the Senate need to pass the funding Trump needs. Why did he wait until he lost the House to make an issue of this?

[Common Sense]

I agree with your first statement but do not on the second. The democrat party is in a far more precarious position in my opinion. The situation the democrats are in is being all distorted by full flat out everything positive for democrat position and subsequent reporting.

The real truth is somewhat different, people harp on the Old Angry White Men, but they are forgetting there are millions of democrats in the 40-60 range that arent Old men yet and arent at retirement age who DO NOT LIKE, what they are seeing and what is coming out of the democrat party. Admittedly its diluted by the dislike of trump but the democrat party is on shaky ground come 2020. America does not want socialism and will reject and they do not want medicare for all when the poll questions arent skewed.

Common sense you dont have to say it, I dont expect any liberals to say it, but I believe you ALL every single one of you know that what comes out of the liberal press is not the truth, its not the real picture of anything its only and always only one sided and skewed to make liberals and democrats look and sound good and republicans to sound and look bad.

Thats why all the polls have been wrong

No offence, but this obsession among some conservatives with seeing themselves as the victims of the so called liberal media isn't doing them any favours. There is no conspiracy among the media outlets to promote Dems and demonize Reps. Certainly journalists themselves skew to the left because educated urban people tend to be more liberal, but beyond anecdotes and errors, there is no real evidence of a concerted effort to support one party over another.

Trump has not been treated unfairly by the press. He has been his own worst enemy with regards to his portrayal in the media. I concede that due to the urban and educated nature of journalists and pundits, many in middle America don't share their values and opinions. The media does tend to focus on issues that appeal to the majority...and the majority tend to be urban and suburban.

I honestly do get why some don't feel represented and have bought into the idea they are being attacked, but the reality is the media isn't against them, it's simply that American culture is changing and many fear that change.

[Safety]

He did not harm any useful citizens.

But his supporters are useful idiots.

[Common Sense]

Yes, the only true reporting comes from town hall.com, Breibart and Fox News.

When will the libs ever learn?
...and there's the irony. Some conservatives complain about the bias of mainstream media. They claim that this so called bias means it's fake news. But then they read, post and believe the openly and heavily conservative biased sites like Townhall and fail to see the irony and hypocrisy.

[Safety]

No offence, but this obsession among some conservatives with seeing themselves as the victims of the so called liberal media isn't doing them any favours. There is no conspiracy among the media outlets to promote Dems and demonize Reps. Certainly journalists themselves skew to the left because educated urban people tend to be more liberal, but beyond anecdotes and errors, there is no real evidence of a concerted effort to support one party over another.

Trump has not been treated unfairly by the press. He has been his own worst enemy with regards to his portrayal in the media. I concede that due to the urban and educated nature of journalists and pundits, many in middle America don't share their values and opinions. The media does tend to focus on issues that appeal to the majority...and the majority tend to be urban and suburban.

I honestly do get why some don't feel represented and have bought into the idea they are being attacked, but the reality is the media isn't against them, it's simply that American culture is changing and many fear that change.

They know deep inside that they made the wrong choice in 2016, but are too proud to admit it. They think the ends justify the means, but when they had to sell everything they hold dear to pay for their "win", it makes them even more angry when the corruption and indictments start ramping up proving they backed a corrupt candidate.

[Private Pickle]

After 41 posts someone finally asks Veritis what he's bawling about. :facepalm:

You didn't answer the question.

[Cotton1]

They know deep inside that they made the wrong choice in 2016, but are too proud to admit it. They think the ends justify the means, but when they had to sell everything they hold dear to pay for their "win", it makes them even more angry when the corruption and indictments start ramping up proving they backed a corrupt candidate.

"They" didn't make a mistake and neither did I. Trump probably saved this once great country. It's beyond anything I can fathom that anyone would even consider voting for anyone else in 2016. Laughable X 10. Ciao

[Common Sense]

"They" didn't make a mistake and neither did I. Trump probably saved this once great country. It's beyond anything I can fathom that anyone would even consider voting for anyone else in 2016. Laughable X 10. Ciao

There's the rub. There is one side that can't understand how people could be dumb enough to vote for Trump...and another side that can't understand how people could be dumb or evil enough to vote for Clinton.

[Safety]

"They" didn't make a mistake and neither did I. Trump probably saved this once great country. It's beyond anything I can fathom that anyone would even consider voting for anyone else in 2016. Laughable X 10. Ciao

How, be specific.

[Common Sense]

How, be specific.
It's got what plants crave.

[Just AnotherPerson]

Honestly I feel bad for all sides. Becasue we are all being divided to some degree. There will never be a win. It will always end in dissapointment and suffering for anyone who puts too much faith in those who represent us. One side will always have to lose, and that losing side switches every single day. So how is it ever really a win.

Look at Obama he made so many changes. They were all overturned in two years. Todays win is tomorrows loss. We need to stop being divided, and realize we are all one people, then we could really do something great. But as long as we are divided it will just be this endless game of tug of war.

[Peter1469]

To be fair, the Dems are somewhat divided as well. There is a battle among Dems for the future and direction of the party.

The Reps are divided in a different way and their differences have the potential to do far more harm to the party.
I am not so sure about your conclusion, although it does not matter to me. Both parties suck.

I see the dem split in two ways: first I think it is bad for the dems as a party because its far left is advocating for what would be radical change for the US. Second that is good, because for the first time in modern US history we may have a US presidential election where there is a very real difference between the two main parties.

[Peter1469]

Trump is a disruptive force in the Republican party because he's not a conservative of any kind. The Dems are less divided at this point in time. They may well become just as dysfunctional as the Reps in short order. With a population of over 300M, two parties cannot possibly provide adequate ideological representation, particularly when people are becoming more polarized in their views.
lol, the GOP as a whole is not conservative.

[Peter1469]

Your lack of flexibility must be very stressful. Realistically, the left is the majority and gaining in popularity. Constitutionalism is very academic and entirely lost on the majority of the population, both left and right. The polarization that is occurring between the Dems and Reps is preventing the Constitution from being amended to respond to the will of the people. At some point, something's got to give. If that is some kind of civil war, the existing Constitution is not going to survive. It would be far better to allow at least two more political parties and thus break the existing polarization, so that the Constitution has a chance of being amended.
Sad but true. My office gets legal interns every year and these young lawyers in training tend to, by a large degree, see the Constitution as legislation that can be change via legislation. It is frightening.

[Peter1469]

No offence, but this obsession among some conservatives with seeing themselves as the victims of the so called liberal media isn't doing them any favours. There is no conspiracy among the media outlets to promote Dems and demonize Reps. Certainly journalists themselves skew to the left because educated urban people tend to be more liberal, but beyond anecdotes and errors, there is no real evidence of a concerted effort to support one party over another.

Trump has not been treated unfairly by the press. He has been his own worst enemy with regards to his portrayal in the media. I concede that due to the urban and educated nature of journalists and pundits, many in middle America don't share their values and opinions. The media does tend to focus on issues that appeal to the majority...and the majority tend to be urban and suburban.

I honestly do get why some don't feel represented and have bought into the idea they are being attacked, but the reality is the media isn't against them, it's simply that American culture is changing and many fear that change.

I don't think there is any question that the MSM advocates for the DNC.

[Peter1469]

Honestly I feel bad for all sides. Becasue we are all being divided to some degree. There will never be a win. It will always end in dissapointment and suffering for anyone who puts too much faith in those who represent us. One side will always have to lose, and that losing side switches every single day. So how is it ever really a win.

Look at Obama he made so many changes. They were all overturned in two years. Todays win is tomorrows loss. We need to stop being divided, and realize we are all one people, then we could really do something great. But as long as we are divided it will just be this endless game of tug of war.
Or we can embrace divided government. If the sides can't agree they can't pass more laws to saddle us with. :smiley:

[Chris]

I didn't see name calling. Who was describing Trump based on his words and deeds. Con man isn't name calling, it's a description...not based on emotion, but observation.

If you do indeed defend truth, I'd expect you to be highly critical of Trump and his way of misrepresenting facts, making innacurate statements and outright lying.


OK, for the sake of truth demonstrate with words and deeds the following: "He is a pretender and a chameleon. Get used to disappointment. Is that veil of blindness starting to get thinner? He's a con man with zero political principles."

No, not mere accusations and insinuations, but actual, factual words and deeds.

And, no, not mere feelings, rational argument.

[Hoosier8]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?

It ain’t over yet. Trump just took away all the democrats objections to negotiate plus he will get to deliver the SOTU address.

[Captdon]

How, be specific.

Saved the Supreme Court from liberals is enough.

[Captdon]

It ain’t over yet. Trump just took away all the democrats objections to negotiate plus he will get to deliver the SOTU address.

Mr V quit the fight. He couldn't wait to be first to call Trump out for caving in. If Trump declares an Emergency, he'll disappear for a while.

[Common Sense]

OK, for the sake of truth demonstrate with words and deeds the following: "He is a pretender and a chameleon. Get used to disappointment. Is that veil of blindness starting to get thinner? He's a con man with zero political principles."

No, not mere accusations and insinuations, but actual, factual words and deeds.

And, no, not mere feelings, rational argument.
I understand what you're saying, but I disagree that it's an emotionally based description. I'm not going to search for and site examples to back up someone else's post. At least not now and not while I'm posting on my iPad.

[slackercruster]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?
OP...America has bigger fish to fry than Trump's wall. Sure, a wall is basic security, but the wall wont fix what is wrong with America. It is just a matter of time before all the guns go in America. As they take your guns the reps will still be whimpering 'what part of shall not be infringed don't you understand?'

As of now there is no price that has to be paid by the dems for gun confiscation. They have no skin in the game. If you want to keep your guns it will be a never ending battle of might. There has to be a big price for the dems to pay to try and grab guns. If not, kiss your guns goodbye as the trend shows a more or less perpetually dem run America. Just as we have in CA and NY.

The 'National Popular Vote Interstate Compact' will assure that no Trump ever gets in again. Organization of a National Militia is the first step to fight the dems destruction of the USA. As the dems take control of America they will expand SCOTUS and flood it with the most extreme dem leaning judges they can find. If the 2A can't be outright repealed, it will be translated into ...you are allowed muzzle loaders only. Ret. Justice Stevens believed that people don't have a right to own guns, the 2A only applied to the militia.

NRA needs to accept that times change and they can no longer protect the 2A by buying off politicians. The NRA needs to change it names to The National Militia and Rifle Association. The dems set the standard for disregarding fed law with their zeal to dope up America on marijuana. That is what it will take to keep your guns...a little longer. As each succeeding generation comes up more gender confused and feminized, the will as well as the ability to fight for gun rights will be lost. That will be the time that America is taken over, as it should be, by a stronger nation. A nation of soyboys won't have it in them - all their energies will be spent on trying to figure out what gender they are.

...it is natural law...only the strongest survive.

[Robo]

Now what? Now you are going to find out that Trump can't run the US in the way he ran his bankrupt businesses.

4 bankruptcies, turned into 4 billion in the bank, might be the sign of financial genius?

[Beevee]

4 bankruptcies, turned into 4 billion in the bank, might be the sign of financial genius?

Evidence, other than Trump lies?
In his tax returns, no doubt.

[Tahuyaman]

Anyone running under the Rep banner should have broad party support or what's the point? Said person will just end up as a lame duck President.

Trump never had and still does not have solid support from the traditional political establishment types. They resent the fact that he was elected. If their interests align those establishment loyalists will support him, but they won't take a tough stand to support him.

[Tahuyaman]

Evidence, other than Trump lies?
In his tax returns, no doubt.


Do you really believe that the IRS has not scrutinized his taxes continually for at least the last 30 years?

[alexa]

4 bankruptcies, turned into 4 billion in the bank, might be the sign of financial genius?

Yeah, he's a Jedi

:rofl:

[MisterVeritis]

Trump is a disruptive force in the Republican party
This is a big part of why we elected him. No more business as usual where the political class in some far away capital plunders the nation for its benefit instead of complying with the requirements and limitations of the Constitution.


because he's not a conservative of any kind.
While he is not an ideological conservative he has proven to be more conservative than Ronald Reagan.


The Dems are less divided at this point in time. They may well become just as dysfunctional as the Reps in short order.
The Democratic party has always been about seizing power and plundering the nation. The party has always embraced communism so the turn to socialism is no surprise.


With a population of over 300M, two parties cannot possibly provide adequate ideological representation, particularly when people are becoming more polarized in their views.
Let's divide the nation and go our separate ways.

[MisterVeritis]

I did not say, democrats. I said liberals. I know of no way to prevent liberals from voting. That is why they must be defeated.

Your lack of flexibility must be very stressful.
For flexibility's sake let me add in the rest of the authoritarian statists...


Realistically, the left is the majority and gaining in popularity.
As it did in Venezuela. Everyone believes they will benefit from their neighbor's plundering by the State. Everyone is wrong. This is exactly why breaking the Constitution has doomed this nation.



Constitutionalism is very academic and entirely lost on the majority of the population, both left and right. The polarization that is occurring between the Dems and Reps is preventing the Constitution from being amended to respond to the will of the people. At some point, something's got to give. If that is some kind of civil war, the existing Constitution is not going to survive. It would be far better to allow at least two more political parties and thus break the existing polarization, so that the Constitution has a chance of being amended.
You make a good case for the start of a long civil war.

[MisterVeritis]

What do you mean cave on the SOTU to Pelosi? You seem to think the POTUS has certain rights which he actually doesn't have.

Meanwhile both the House AND the Senate need to pass the funding Trump needs. Why did he wait until he lost the House to make an issue of this?
President Trump did not lose the House as it was never his House to lose. Speaker Ryan, McCarthy, and all the never Trumpers lost the House. And so did that dead son of a bitch, McCain.

[MisterVeritis]

They know deep inside that they made the wrong choice in 2016, but are too proud to admit it. They think the ends justify the means, but when they had to sell everything they hold dear to pay for their "win", it makes them even more angry when the corruption and indictments start ramping up proving they backed a corrupt candidate.
Trump was the right choice.

Don't hang your hopes on Mueller. He has nothing.

[MisterVeritis]

I don't think there is any question that the MSM advocates for the DNC.
The DNC is just the political arm of the enemedia.

[Tahuyaman]

President Trump did not lose the House as it was never his House to lose. Speaker Ryan, McCarthy, and all the never Trumpers lost the House. And so did that dead son of a $#@!, McCain.


The reason the Republicans lost the house of reps is because most of those Republicans failed to stand firm to their campaign promises which got them elected in the first place.

[Common Sense]

Trump was the right choice.

Don't hang your hopes on Mueller. He has nothing.

Yeah, Mueller has nothing...only 34 indictments, 6 of which were Trump associates. Several guilty pleas and convictions to boot.

Not sure how that's nothing.

[MisterVeritis]

It ain’t over yet. Trump just took away all the democrats objections to negotiate plus he will get to deliver the SOTU address.
The State of the Union show is not relevant.

The Democrats lack principles. When one caves into them on every demand what changes?

Some people are putting a very happy face on this catastrophe. I hope they are right.

President Trump caved in to Pelosi's demands. I think I understand why. We have six or seven traitors in our midst. We have the usual suspects, Collins and Murkowski, and a new one the loathsome Romney. Maybe this was the best Trump could do given the depths of the Senate's depravity.

I do not see how leaving a strong position and occupying a weak position is a good move. President Trump surprised me once before. I hope he will surprise me again.

But that is not the way to bet.

[MisterVeritis]

Yeah, Mueller has nothing...only 34 indictments, 6 of which were Trump associates. Several guilty pleas and convictions to boot.

Not sure how that's nothing.
Not one indictment involves Russia-Trump collusion. Nearly all indictments involved Mueller manufactured crimes or crimes dredged up from long before the campaign. Many are phony, show indictments never intended to be tested by trial.

This is the stuff of tyranny.

[MisterVeritis]

Or we can embrace divided government. If the sides can't agree they can't pass more laws to saddle us with. :smiley:
Unfortunately, as long as we have nearly 450 Executive branch agencies independently making laws this is not quite true.

[MisterVeritis]

Mr V quit the fight. He couldn't wait to be first to call Trump out for caving in. If Trump declares an Emergency, he'll disappear for a while.
I think you guys can do without me in the fight for one day.

If President Trump plans to declare a national emergency the time to have done it was yesterday. He was in a strong position then. He is in a much weaker position today.

[Tahuyaman]

Yeah, Mueller has nothing...only 34 indictments, 6 of which were Trump associates. Several guilty pleas and convictions to boot.

Not sure how that's nothing.


The convictions are process crimes. People lying when there was nothing they needed to lie about. In one of those convictions for lying, the FBI said the person didn't lie or deceive them at all.

It's a political persecution. Unfortunately the precedent has been set. Political persecutions will be common from now on.

[MisterVeritis]

Yeah, he's a JediYou are right. You are slowly convincing me to be more patient with President Trump. He is a Jedi Knight.

[MisterVeritis]

President Trump did not lose the House as it was never his House to lose. Speaker Ryan, McCarthy, and all the never Trumpers lost the House. And so did that dead son of a $#@!, McCain.

The reason the Republicans lost the house of reps is because most of those Republicans failed to stand firm to their campaign promises which got them elected in the first place.
Yes. Speaker Ryan, McCarthy and the Never Trumpers...we agree.

[Common Sense]

Not one indictment involves Russia-Trump collusion. Nearly all indictments involved Mueller manufactured crimes or crimes dredged up from long before the campaign. Many are phony, show indictments never intended to be tested by trial.

This is the stuff of tyranny.

Cohen, Flynn and Popadopalous's charges are all directly based on their interactions with Russia while acting in the capacity of the Trump campaign or administration. All pled guilty to the charges.

[alexa]

You are right. You are slowly convincing me to be more patient with President Trump. He is a Jedi Knight.
:rofl:

Anything for your Dear Leader.

[Tahuyaman]

Cohen, Flynn and Popadopalous's charges are all directly based on their interactions with Russia while acting in the capacity of the Trump campaign or administration. All pled guilty to the charges.


They were convicted of lying about things which were not a crime. Besides, the FBI said that Flynn did not lie.

[MisterVeritis]

Not one indictment involves Russia-Trump collusion. Nearly all indictments involved Mueller manufactured crimes or crimes dredged up from long before the campaign. Many are phony, show indictments never intended to be tested by trial.

This is the stuff of tyranny.

Cohen, Flynn and Popadopalous's charges are all directly based on their interactions with Russia while acting in the capacity of the Trump campaign or administration. All pled guilty to the charges.
Pay attention. The crimes are Mueller manufactured.

Cohen's real crimes do not involve candidate nor President Trump. Flynn and Popadopalus's crimes are manufactured crimes, wholly made by Mueller's Democrat thugs.

[MisterVeritis]

:rofl:

Anything for your Dear Leader.
You are confused. Dear Leader is something the left calls its leader. We call ours Mr. President.

[Common Sense]

Not one indictment involves Russia-Trump collusion. Nearly all indictments involved Mueller manufactured crimes or crimes dredged up from long before the campaign. Many are phony, show indictments never intended to be tested by trial.

This is the stuff of tyranny.

Pay attention. The crimes are Mueller manufactured.

Cohen's real crimes do not involve candidate nor President Trump. Flynn and Popadopalus's crimes are manufactured crimes, wholly made by Mueller's Democrat thugs.

Lol...that's why they pled guilty.

[MisterVeritis]

Lol...that's why they pled guilty.
Why do you laugh? Are you a dullard?

They pled guilty because Mueller was destroying them. Mueller bankrupted Flynn as a tactic to get a guilty plea. This is nothing short of tyranny.

[Tahuyaman]

Lol...that's why they pled guilty.


They pled guilty for lying about things they didn't need to lie about.


In one case the people he's accused of lying to said that he did not lie or deceive them.


One other guy lied because he got caught trying to make himself look a big shot in an attempt to impress people.

[Tahuyaman]

... Mueller bankrupted Flynn as a tactic to get a guilty plea. This is nothing short of tyranny.

What Mueller did to Flynn is indeed a criminal act. He should be held accountable for that. He should as a minimum be required to restore Flynn to his previous financial condition and pay an addition penalty for punitive damages. A prison term is not out of line either.

[MisterVeritis]

Now what? Now you are going to find out that Trump can't run the US in the way he ran his bankrupt businesses.
Go soak your head. You are boring.

[alexa]

They were convicted of lying about things which were not a crime. Besides, the FBI said that Flynn did not lie.
How do you get convicted for a non-crime, Justice Brandeis?

I'm fascinated.

[Tahuyaman]

How do you get convicted for a non-crime, Justice Brandeis?

I'm fascinated.


One can't lie when they don't need to? People do that all the time. I'm sure you've heard of a "process crime".

[alexa]

One can't lie when they don't need to? People do that all the time. I'm sure you've heard of a "process crime".

Yes I have.

What part of crime confuses you?

It's only one syllable so it should be within your severely circumscribed capabilities.

[Tahuyaman]

Yes I have.

What part of crime confuses you?

It's only one syllable so it should be within your severely circumscribed capabilities.

I guess you are one who supports law enforcement investigating where no crime was committed and then intimidate people into creating a crime by lying when threatened. Sieg Heil !

[MisterVeritis]

How do you get convicted for a non-crime, Justice Brandeis?

I'm fascinated.
You are dull. The government can bankrupt you. And did. The crime doesn't go to a show trial. The defendant has no more money for a defense (note: buffoon is silent).

[Common Sense]

One can't lie when they don't need to? People do that all the time. I'm sure you've heard of a "process crime".

Regardless of your rationalization, crimes were still committed. Crimes they pled guilty to.

Why would innocent people with competent legal counsel plead guilty to crimes they supposedly didn't commit?

These crimes weren't innocent lies of omission or mistakes. They were lies about the extent and content of their continued communication with Russian figures. Campaign finance violations, tax evasion, bank fraud and money laundering. Crimes that they pled guilty to.

[Ethereal]

Regardless of your rationalization, crimes were still committed. Crimes they pled guilty to.

Why would innocent people with competent legal counsel plead guilty to crimes they supposedly didn't commit?

These crimes weren't innocent lies of omission or mistakes. They were lies about the extent and content of their continued communication with Russian figures. Campaign finance violations, tax evasion, bank fraud and money laundering. Crimes that they pled guilty to.

Keeping that Russian "collusion" dream alive, eh?

[MisterVeritis]

Regardless of your rationalization, crimes were still committed. Crimes they pled guilty to.

Why would innocent people with competent legal counsel plead guilty to crimes they supposedly didn't commit?

These crimes weren't innocent lies of omission or mistakes. They were lies about the extent and content of their continued communication with Russian figures. Campaign finance violations, tax evasion, bank fraud and money laundering. Crimes that they pled guilty to.
Almost all the crimes were created by the investigators. A few crimes, real crimes, predate the election season and have no connection to the false claim of Russia-Trump collusion.

Why would someone plead guilty? The government bankrupts them.

You are very comfortable with totalitarian, tyrannical police state operations.

[Common Sense]

Keeping that Russian "collusion" dream alive, eh?

I've never accused Trump of collusion.

There are unsettling connections to people in his campaign and inner circle, but there is no evidence of Trump colluding with Russia.

[Common Sense]

Almost all the crimes were created by the investigators. A few crimes, real crimes, predate the election season and have no connection to the false claim of Russia-Trump collusion.

Why would someone plead guilty? The government bankrupts them.

You are very comfortable with totalitarian, tyrannical police state operations.

Lol...created by investigators? That's a weak piece of fiction.

[Safety]

Trump was the right choice.

Don't hang your hopes on Mueller. He has nothing.

This made me smile.

[alexa]

I guess you are one who supports law enforcement investigating where no crime was committed and then intimidate people into creating a crime by lying when threatened. Sieg Heil !
You're getting hysterical now.

Hysterically funny

[Tahuyaman]

Regardless of your rationalization, crimes were still committed. Crimes they pled guilty to... They lied about something which wasn't a crime. One guy gives two different stories in two different interviews about the date, time and attendees of a meeting. Perjury.

One pled guilty because he was ruined financially and could no longer afford any defense, so he just gave up.

If you don't condemn those tactics being employed by law enforcement, you are part of the problem.

[alexa]

You are dull. The government can bankrupt you. And did. The crime doesn't go to a show trial. The defendant has no more money for a defense (note: buffoon is silent).
Keep on believing

If it was one of Hillary's, you'd be getting a rope ready, you hypocrite.

[alexa]

It's amazing the lengths they'll go to to defend their binky.

[Tahuyaman]

You're getting hysterical now.

Hysterically funny Hysterical? Do you know the definition of that word?

[Tahuyaman]

It's amazing the lengths they'll go to to defend their binky.

Who's "binky"?

[Beevee]

You are confused. Dear Leader is something the left calls its leader. We call ours Mr. President.

Glad to know Obama received the same courtesy. He did, didn't he?

[Ethereal]

I've never accused Trump of collusion.

There are unsettling connections to people in his campaign and inner circle, but there is no evidence of Trump colluding with Russia.

There's really nothing "unsettling" about it.

The US has had diplomatic relations with Russia for over a century.

Many, many Americans throughout that time have been in contact with Russia for purposes of diplomacy and such.

But the Clinton machine needed an excuse and a distraction for why they lost the election, so they concocted a bunch of nonsense about Russian "collusion" and "interference" for which zero proof exists.

Ever since then, US political culture has been plagued by a revival of cold war-era McCarthyism where any connection to Russia, no matter how banal or pedestrian, gets filtered through the prism of anti-Russian hysteria.

Yet there seems to be little problem with politicians in DC openly prostrating themselves before countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Anyone with "common sense" can see that this entire thing is a charade with no basis in fact, evidence, or logic.

[Common Sense]

They lied about something which wasn't a crime. One guy gives two different stories in two different interviews about the date, time and attendees of a meeting. Perjury.

One pled guilty because he was ruined financially and could no longer afford any defense, so he just gave up.

If you don't condemn those tactics being employed by law enforcement, you are part of the problem.
Funny how you left out a large part of my post.

If you really need to believe it's all some vast conspiracy and a witch hunt in order for you to accept it, that's cool.

Even Trumps nominee for AG, William Barr knows this isn't a witch hunt. I guess he's in on it too?

[Common Sense]

There's really nothing "unsettling" about it.

The US has had diplomatic relations with Russia for over a century.

Many, many Americans throughout that time have been in contact with Russia for purposes of diplomacy and such.

But the Clinton machine needed an excuse and a distraction for why they lost the election, so they concocted a bunch of nonsense about Russian "collusion" and "interference" for which zero proof exists.

Ever since then, US political culture has been plagued by a revival of cold war-era McCarthyism where any connection to Russia, no matter how banal or pedestrian, gets filtered through the prism of anti-Russian hysteria.

Yet there seems to be little problem with politicians in DC openly prostrating themselves before countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Anyone with "common sense" can see that this entire thing is a charade with no basis in fact, evidence, or logic.

Lol...yeah, it's all just a conspiracy, a misunderstanding and coincidence.

[Beevee]

Do you really believe that the IRS has not scrutinized his taxes continually for at least the last 30 years?

Do you really believe that nobody cheats on their tax returns without being caught then?

[Ethereal]

Funny how you left out a large part of my post.

If you really need to believe it's all some vast conspiracy and a witch hunt in order for you to accept it, that's cool.

Even Trumps nominee for AG, William Barr knows this isn't a witch hunt. I guess he's in on it too?
Trump has a bad habit of nominating people who aren't actually on his side.

This can be explained partly by Trump's ignorance of the political ecosystem and partly by Trump's gullibility.

Probably the most obvious example of Trump letting a fox into the hen-house is John Bolton, who opposes Trump on virtually every important foreign policy issue. All Bolton had to do to get hired by Trump was to go around making vague but flattering statements about Trump.

So if there are people from within Trump's administration who seem agreeable to the Russian collusion/interference conspiracy theory, it's not because the theory has any merit whatsoever. It's because Trump is and has been disoriented and confused since the moment he won the presidency.

[Ethereal]

Lol...yeah, it's all just a conspiracy...

Yes, it is. And it's incredibly obvious. If you do not see it, it's because you refuse to acknowledge reality.


...a misunderstanding and coincidence.

A misunderstanding is far too generous a description.

Trump's enemies know exactly what they're doing.

[Tahuyaman]

Do you really believe that nobody cheats on their tax returns without being caught then?
I don't believe he can. People who cheat and get away with it do so because they aren't being investigated. Once something prompts an investigation, they get busted.

I'm sure there is a team of IRS agents dedicated to scouring his taxes and that team has been in existence for at least 30 years. If he was a tax cheater, it would have been exposed years ago.

[Tahuyaman]

Even Trumps nominee for AG, William Barr knows this isn't a witch hunt. I guess he's in on it too?

Did you ever consider that he simply told someone what they wanted to hear?

[MisterVeritis]

Lol...created by investigators? That's a weak piece of fiction.
It is true despite your beliefs. If you ask someone the same question fifty times in fifty different ways, record all the answers then go looking for an inconsistency one will be found. If one is not found ask fifty more times.

It is a crime manufactured by the investigators.

[MisterVeritis]

Trump was the right choice.

Don't hang your hopes on Mueller. He has nothing.

This made me smile.
It made me smile too. Twice.

[MisterVeritis]

Keep on believing

If it was one of Hillary's, you'd be getting a rope ready, you hypocrite.
With Hillary and her minions, there were real crimes to investigate. The rope comes, appropriately, after the trial and conviction.

[MisterVeritis]

Glad to know Obama received the same courtesy. He did, didn't he?
If anyone called President Obama, Dear Leader, I suspect it would be a leftist sycophant.

I prefer IslamoMarxist Supporter, or IslamoMarxist for short.

[Tahuyaman]

It is true despite your beliefs. If you ask someone the same question fifty times in fifty different ways, record all the answers then go looking for an inconsistency one will be found. If one is not found ask fifty more times.

It is a crime manufactured by the investigators.

Often your memory of an event changes over time. One can remember things they previously had forgotten and vice versa. When your recollection of events changes over time, a prosecutor with a political agenda or one who is corrupt will exploit that in a dishonest way.

[Common Sense]

Well, you guys certainly do some fancy tap dancing.

I guess it's easier than admitting there has been corruption and criminal activity within the Trump camp.

All just a vast conspiracy. Lol...

[Tahuyaman]

You are confused. Dear Leader is something the left calls its leader. We call ours Mr. President.


If anyone called President Obama, Dear Leader, I suspect it would be a leftist sycophant.

I prefer IslamoMarxist Supporter, or IslamoMarxist for short.

Obama's followers presented him as a Christ like figure. Remember the spooky chants by young elementary school kids? They composed photos of him to appear that he has a halo.

[Tahuyaman]

Well, you guys certainly do some fancy tap dancing.

I guess it's easier than admitting there has been corruption and criminal activity within the Trump camp.

All just a vast conspiracy. Lol...

Corruption in the Trump administration has not been shown. Disorganization and political amateurism is not corruption.

[Beevee]

If anyone called President Obama, Dear Leader, I suspect it would be a leftist sycophant.

I prefer IslamoMarxist Supporter, or IslamoMarxist for short.

Nobody seems to satisfy you. You need a change of environment.
Kandoo Island is available.
You can do it if you can afford it.

[MisterVeritis]

Well, you guys certainly do some fancy tap dancing.
I guess it's easier than admitting there has been corruption and criminal activity within the Trump camp.
All just a vast conspiracy. Lol...
You err. You often do.

[Ethereal]

Well, you guys certainly do some fancy tap dancing.

Prove it.


I guess it's easier than admitting there has been corruption and criminal activity within the Trump camp.

I don't admit things just because someone else thinks I should. I require this thing called "evidence" before I will believe something. And so far, there is zero evidence that Trump or his administration did anything relating to Russia that was unusual as far as DC politics go. It would be one thing if the people going after Trump were squeaky clean, but they are far from it. Virtually every character assailing and investigating Trump is in some way mired in corruption. Mueller, a promoter of the false WMD propaganda that caused the US to invade and occupy Iraq; Hillary Clinton, another Iraq war miscreant, to say nothing of her Libyan disaster; Clapper, a man who LIED under oath to congress, which is a crime; Brennan, who had the CIA spy on the Senate while it was investigating torture; these are the people bringing truth and justice to DC?

LOL


All just a vast conspiracy. Lol...

Why is that funny?

[Tahuyaman]

Corruption in the Trump administration has not been shown. Disorganization and political amateurism is not corruption.

Common Sense. What do you use to support your claim of corruption within the Trump administration? I'm talking about corruption and not just disorganization or political amateurism.

[DGUtley]

Obama's followers presented him as a Christ like figure. Remember the spooky chants by young elementary school kids? They composed photos of him to appear that he has a halo.

25170

[Tahuyaman]

25170


Even though that is humorous, I wasn't referring to that one. Media photographers used to compose photos to make Obama appear to have an angelic like halo. He was as close to bring worshipped as an American president can be. He was worshipped in the same way many leftist dictators are appeared to be worshipped as they are represented as God.

[Hoosier8]

Cohen, Flynn and Popadopalous's charges are all directly based on their interactions with Russia while acting in the capacity of the Trump campaign or administration. All pled guilty to the charges.
Wrong again. They are charged with lying to Mueller or not filling out paperwork that democrats like Podesta that worked with Manafort are not charged with.

[alexa]

Trump has a bad habit of nominating people who aren't actually on his side.

This can be explained partly by Trump's ignorance of the political ecosystem and partly by Trump's gullibility.

Probably the most obvious example of Trump letting a fox into the hen-house is John Bolton, who opposes Trump on virtually every important foreign policy issue. All Bolton had to do to get hired by Trump was to go around making vague but flattering statements about Trump.

So if there are people from within Trump's administration who seem agreeable to the Russian collusion/interference conspiracy theory, it's not because the theory has any merit whatsoever. It's because Trump is and has been disoriented and confused since the moment he won the presidency.

His choices are limited because he's run out of people desperate enough or stupid enough to work for him.

[alexa]

Wrong again. They are charged with lying to Mueller or not filling out paperwork that democrats like Podesta that worked with Manafort are not charged with.

Of course they are.

Mueller, the lifelong Republican who was appointed by the deputy AG appointed by Trump, is out to get Republicans.

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

[Tahuyaman]

Of course they are.

Mueller, the lifelong Republican who was appointed by the deputy AG appointed by Trump, is out to get Republicans.

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?
Mueller is an establishment loyalist. Party affiliation is irrelevant. But if that’s important to you, check the history of those he has appointed to his team. Then try to spin that.

[alexa]

Mueller is an establishment loyalist. Party affiliation is irrelevant. But if that’s important to you, check the history of those he has appointed to his team. Then try to spin that.

It's not important to me, but it appears to be important to your ilk, until it occurs to one of you how stupid it looks.

[Tahuyaman]

It's not important to me, but it appears to be important to your ilk, until it occurs to one of you how stupid it looks.

You’re the one who assigns importance to a party label here. I’ve never given that any consideration.

[alexa]

You’re the one who assigns importance to a party label here. I’ve never given that any consideration.
:rofl:

[Tahuyaman]

You’re the one who assigns importance to a party label here. I’ve never given that any consideration.


:rofl:
That’s an odd comment to find funny.

[pjohns]

I am usually optimistic. Not today.

This looks like a fatal loss for the nation and the President.

The president says a bipartisan committee will evaluate all of the Border Patrol's security recommendations. The president claims he will declare a national emergency if he doesn't get what he wants on Feb 15th.

But the president caved. Who will believe his threat to take action now?

I am/was a Trump supporter. Now what?

Unfortunately, there are only two ways--neither especially likely, in my opinion--that the Trump administration may reasonably claim victory here:

(1) There is an agreement reached during the 21-day window, that includes wall funding--with at least 50 percent of the requested 5.7 billion dollars upfront.

(2) Failing that, President Trump shuts down the government again once 21 days have elapsed.

Frankly, I find #1 rather unlikely; and #2 even more unlikely, given the fact that far more people blamed President Trump than blamed the congressional Democrats for the government shutdown.

I do hope that I am mistaken.

Note: I am hoping that President Trump will not declare a national emergency here. That would set a terrible precedent for a future Democratic president--one who might wish to institute National Healthcare, end the sale of all vehicles as we know them--or do anything else.

Besides, we conservatives did not like it when then-President Obama acted as a dictator (through the use of EOs). It would really not be any different if a Republican president did approximately the same thing. (I have never believed that the ends may justify the means.)

[alexa]

He'll take whatever McConnell and Pelosi agree to give him.

[MisterVeritis]

Unfortunately, there are only two ways--neither especially likely, in my opinion--that the Trump administration may reasonably claim victory here:

(1) There is an agreement reached during the 21-day window, that includes wall funding--with at least 50 percent of the requested 5.7 billion dollars upfront.

(2) Failing that, President Trump shuts down the government again once 21 days have elapsed.

Frankly, I find #1 rather unlikely; and #2 even more unlikely, given the fact that far more people blamed President Trump than blamed the congressional Democrats for the government shutdown.

I do hope that I am mistaken.

Note: I am hoping that President Trump will not declare a national emergency here. That would set a terrible precedent for a future Democratic president--one who might wish to institute National Healthcare, end the sale of all vehicles as we know them--or do anything else.

Besides, we conservatives did not like it when then-President Obama acted as a dictator (through the use of EOs). It would really not be any different if a Republican president did approximately the same thing. (I have never believed that the ends may justify the means.)
50% is not enough.

Trump has the Constitution and the law on his side. Obama had neither.

[Common Sense]

@Common Sense (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1085). What do you use to support your claim of corruption within the Trump administration? I'm talking about corruption and not just disorganization or political amateurism.

Cohen pled guilty to campaign finance violations, bank fraud and it seems he was peddling influence with the Russians in regards to the Trump Moscow tower deal. I'd consider that corruption.

You can disagree, that's fine...you still have multiple counts of campaign finance violations, money laundering, tax evasion, paying off mistresses, lying to federal agents and lying about contacts with foreign governments.

Seems pretty corrupt to me.

[Tahuyaman]

Cohen pled guilty to campaign finance violations, bank fraud and it seems he was peddling influence with the Russians in regards to the Trump Moscow tower deal. I'd consider that corruption.

You can disagree, that's fine...you still have multiple counts of campaign finance violations, money laundering, tax evasion, paying off mistresses, lying to federal agents and lying about contacts with foreign governments.

Seems pretty corrupt to me.
Cohen is and never was a member of the Trump administration.

Try again.

[MisterVeritis]

Cohen pled guilty to campaign finance violations, bank fraud and it seems he was peddling influence with the Russians in regards to the Trump Moscow tower deal. I'd consider that corruption.

You can disagree, that's fine...you still have multiple counts of campaign finance violations, money laundering, tax evasion, paying off mistresses, lying to federal agents and lying about contacts with foreign governments.

Seems pretty corrupt to me.
Cohen pled guilty to non-crimes. We don't know why he did it. The charges were not tested in court. This is show trial stuff. It is designed to convince the rubes...well, you know.

[Tahuyaman]

Back to the subject of the thread. Trump did cave in to the Democrats. Will he do it again in three weeks? I say he will.

[Peter1469]

Back to the subject of the thread. Trump did cave in to the Democrats. Will he do it again in three weeks? I say he will.
Would taking the National Emergency Act route- and moving US Army Corps of Engineer funds from 2018 natural disaster mitigation projects to the wall not be considered another Trump cave?

The Congress can re-allocate money for those disaster projects, or not.

[Captdon]

Yeah, Mueller has nothing...only 34 indictments, 6 of which were Trump associates. Several guilty pleas and convictions to boot.

Not sure how that's nothing.

He was hired to get trump. He found out there was nothing to get.

[Captdon]

I think you guys can do without me in the fight for one day.

If President Trump plans to declare a national emergency the time to have done it was yesterday. He was in a strong position then. He is in a much weaker position today.

He can claim that the Dems broke their word. Number do mean something. Then he can declare an Emergency. If he doesn't then you're right. I don't fold that easy. He has won all the other battles.

[Captdon]

:rofl:

Anything for your Dear Leader.

Your leader is wandering around in the woods. That says it all about you.

[Captdon]

Lol...that's why they pled guilty.

That's what happens when the FBI breaks you financially.

[Captdon]

This made me smile.

Hillary is lost in the forest someplace. That makes me smile.

[Captdon]

They lied about something which wasn't a crime. One guy gives two different stories in two different interviews about the date, time and attendees of a meeting. Perjury.

One pled guilty because he was ruined financially and could no longer afford any defense, so he just gave up.

If you don't condemn those tactics being employed by law enforcement, you are part of the problem.

You aren't talking to one of our brighter lights.

[Captdon]

Keep on believing

If it was one of Hillary's, you'd be getting a rope ready, you hypocrite.

If it was one of Hillary's there be no investigation. Learn some history and quit making a fool of yourself.

[Captdon]

Who's "binky"?

A child's toy. He still plays with his. Explains a lot.

[Captdon]

Do you really believe that nobody cheats on their tax returns without being caught then?

Not at that level; not for forty years; not here.

[Captdon]

Nobody seems to satisfy you. You need a change of environment.
Kandoo Island is available.
You can do it if you can afford it.

So is Canada. You're living proof of that.

[Captdon]

25170

Spooky and stupid.

[Captdon]

Of course they are.

Mueller, the lifelong Republican who was appointed by the deputy AG appointed by Trump, is out to get Republicans.

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

He hired 14 Democratic lawyers. You know how stupid that sounds?

[Captdon]

:rofl:

Using an emoji as a comment shows a lack of intelligence.

[Captdon]

Unfortunately, there are only two ways--neither especially likely, in my opinion--that the Trump administration may reasonably claim victory here:

(1) There is an agreement reached during the 21-day window, that includes wall funding--with at least 50 percent of the requested 5.7 billion dollars upfront.

(2) Failing that, President Trump shuts down the government again once 21 days have elapsed.

Frankly, I find #1 rather unlikely; and #2 even more unlikely, given the fact that far more people blamed President Trump than blamed the congressional Democrats for the government shutdown.

I do hope that I am mistaken.

Note: I am hoping that President Trump will not declare a national emergency here. That would set a terrible precedent for a future Democratic president--one who might wish to institute National Healthcare, end the sale of all vehicles as we know them--or do anything else.

Besides, we conservatives did not like it when then-President Obama acted as a dictator (through the use of EOs). It would really not be any different if a Republican president did approximately the same thing. (I have never believed that the ends may justify the means.) errors.

One of your many knowledge. Trump is allowed to declare an Emergecy along the border. He is responsible for it Constitutionally. he's the Commander-in-Chief.

Healthcare is not covered by the law.

[Captdon]

Cohen pled guilty to campaign finance violations, bank fraud and it seems he was peddling influence with the Russians in regards to the Trump Moscow tower deal. I'd consider that corruption.

You can disagree, that's fine...you still have multiple counts of campaign finance violations, money laundering, tax evasion, paying off mistresses, lying to federal agents and lying about contacts with foreign governments.

Seems pretty corrupt to me.

Cohen pleaded guilty to lying to Congress. Now he's telling the truth. What a stupid excuse.

[Captdon]

Would taking the National Emergency Act route- and moving US Army Corps of Engineer funds from 2018 natural disaster mitigation projects to the wall not be considered another Trump cave?

The Congress can re-allocate money for those disaster projects, or not.

No, why would it be a cave-in. He builds the wall. How is that caving in?

The rest is up to Congress.

[alexa]

No, why would it be a cave-in. He builds the wall. How is that caving in?

The rest is up to Congress.

It's all up to Congress, now that Nancy has your hero's balls in a Bell jar on her back porch.

He'll take what he gets and like it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNJq_wI1ns

[Hoosier8]

Of course they are.

Mueller, the lifelong Republican who was appointed by the deputy AG appointed by Trump, is out to get Republicans.

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

Stupid post. I can claim Mueller the life long butt buddy of Comey is out to get Comey's nemesis.

[Hoosier8]

So, during this 21 day period there is another 8,000 strong caravan marching to our border from the south. When the democrats again fail to protect our borders Trump can claim a national emergency then the democrats will find a whacked out 9th circuit court judge to halt it, Trump can claim he has tried everything but the far-left democrats do not believe in the USA as a sovereign nation entitled to defend its borders.

[Peter1469]

So, during this 21 day period there is another 8,000 strong caravan marching to our border from the south. When the democrats again fail to protect our borders Trump can claim a national emergency then the democrats will find a whacked out 9th circuit court judge to halt it, Trump can claim he has tried everything but the far-left democrats do not believe in the USA as a sovereign nation entitled to defend its borders.
I believe it is over 12,000 now.

Do not let a single one in.

[Hoosier8]

I believe it is over 12,000 now.

Do not let a single one in.

Nah, democrats like their maids.

[Tahuyaman]

Would taking the National Emergency Act route- and moving US Army Corps of Engineer funds from 2018 natural disaster mitigation projects to the wall not be considered another Trump cave?

The Congress can re-allocate money for those disaster projects, or not.

If he does that, most of his supporters would view that as doing what he can to fulfill his promise.

[Captdon]

He should have opened the government and then declared a National Emergency. He's not good at politics. He's going to have to do it anyway with Pelosi believing she won. She won't give any thing but a token amount.

He under-estimated his base. He has no choice but declare an emergency now. He tried to play like a politician and he doesn't know how. Now he has to play hardball.

His base really pissed off. If he wants to serve a second term he has to build that wall. He had better realize we aren't going to elect a politician.

I realize this looks good, appointing a bi-partisan group and some experts to come up with a plan. I'm tired of the Democrats and I want him to go ahead and do it.

[pjohns]

Trump is allowed to declare an Emergecy along the border.
Yes, you are surely correct: President Trump may--constitutionally--declare an emergency here, and act accordingly.

I just believe that it would set a horrible precedent for future (Democratic) presidents.

Moreover, it flies in the face of our (thoroughly justified) criticisms of then-President Obama, who circumvented Congress whenever he found it uncongenial to his desires.

[pjohns]

[D]emocrats do not believe in the USA as a sovereign nation entitled to defend its borders.
This is precisely correct!

Democrats--most of them, anyway--seem to believe the US is nothing more than a gigantic land mass, stretching from the Atlantic to the Pacific--but without any real sovereignty.

[MisterVeritis]

Would taking the National Emergency Act route- and moving US Army Corps of Engineer funds from 2018 natural disaster mitigation projects to the wall not be considered another Trump cave?

The Congress can re-allocate money for those disaster projects, or not.
I expected President Trump to declare a national emergency instead of capitulating. Where president Trump caved was in reopening the government with no conditions, exactly as Pelosi demanded. The Congress will study the issue for three weeks. The Congress could have studied the issue for any of the last 50 years.

One individual claimed the President opened the government because the DOD needed three weeks to plan to build the wall. I laughed.

[MisterVeritis]

He can claim that the Dems broke their word. Number do mean something. Then he can declare an Emergency. If he doesn't then you're right. I don't fold that easy. He has won all the other battles.
I suppose it makes it more interesting if Trump gives up a strong position for a weak one.

[MisterVeritis]

Yes, you are surely correct: President Trump may--constitutionally--declare an emergency here, and act accordingly.

I just believe that it would set a horrible precedent for future (Democratic) presidents.

Moreover, it flies in the face of our (thoroughly justified) criticisms of then-President Obama, who circumvented Congress whenever he found it uncongenial to his desires.
the law has been used to declare national emergencies about 50 times. What horrible precedent are you afraid of?

You err on the Constitution and the law. Both are wholly on President Trump's side.

[pjohns]

What horrible precedent are you afraid of?

I am quite concerned (as I mentioned previously) that a future Democratic president--much like Barack Obama--might take executive action whenever the Congress would not cave to his desires; and that he (or she) might then declare that a Republican president once did the same thing.

(No, that would not justify doing it, logically; but it would amount to a rather strong argument for the people's consumption.)

[MisterVeritis]

I am quite concerned (as I mentioned previously) that a future Democratic president--much like Barack Obama--might take executive action whenever the Congress would not cave to his desires; and that he (or she) might then declare that a Republican president once did the same thing.

(No, that would not justify doing it, logically; but it would amount to a rather strong argument for the people's consumption.)
Okay. You are conflating two separate things. Obama broke the law and the constitution several times with executive orders. Obama did not have the Constitution or the law on his side. President Trump has both on his side.

The Congress gave the President broad powers to declare national emergencies and to act within existing budgets. A future Congress is free to take back some of the broad powers if they choose to do so.

[Peter1469]

Yes, you are surely correct: President Trump may--constitutionally--declare an emergency here, and act accordingly.

I just believe that it would set a horrible precedent for future (Democratic) presidents.

Moreover, it flies in the face of our (thoroughly justified) criticisms of then-President Obama, who circumvented Congress whenever he found it uncongenial to his desires.
Why? The National Emergencies Act gives the president broad authority. And was passed by congress.

Obama declared a national emergency in order to get military aid to Ukraine. :shocked:

[Adelaide]

Trump has other issues that he can try to solidify his position with for his followers. He ran on more than one issue and this issue isn't even dead yet. I have more respect for him because he "caved" after 35 days than I do for the Democrats who suddenly switched their demands and wouldn't negotiate what they originally (prior to shutdown) agreed on.

[Tahuyaman]

Why? The National Emergencies Act gives the president broad authority. And was passed by congress.

Obama declared a national emergency in order to get military aid to Ukraine. :shocked:

Obama invoked the National Emergency Act 13 times. Most were about actions overseas.

[Captdon]

I suppose it makes it more interesting if Trump gives up a strong position for a weak one.

Where was his strong position? Where were the Dems negotiating? Now, he can prove to the Court that the Congress has failed its duty. Now his Declaration makes more legal sense.

He does have to remember that PR means something. Obama's Declarations were undone but you can't undo a wall.

You go ahead and take the punch and fall down. I'll wait until I actually get knocked out.


He has to do it. If not, he can go home.

[Captdon]

Trump has other issues that he can try to solidify his position with for his followers. He ran on more than one issue and this issue isn't even dead yet. I have more respect for him because he "caved" after 35 days than I do for the Democrats who suddenly switched their demands and wouldn't negotiate what they originally (prior to shutdown) agreed on.

No, he can't. The wall is the one issue he has to stand up and do. His base is not the forgiving kind of bs'ers that you are used to. We want what we want or we would never have voted for him.

[Adelaide]

No, he can't. The wall is the one issue he has to stand up and do. His base is not the forgiving kind of bs'ers that you are used to. We want what we want or we would never have voted for him.

I don't really think Trump voters are all that special. When it comes time to pick between Trump and Gillibrand or Trump and Gabbard (or whomever), Trump voters are going to stay loyal. They will recite off the things he did do that they wanted and the wall will be a 2020 promise or something. Same old shit.