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Docthehun
02-07-2019, 07:51 PM
Wouldn't this approach be a lot cheaper and make more sense?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-wants-israel-apos-100005531.html

ripmeister
02-07-2019, 08:41 PM
Wouldn't this approach be a lot cheaper and make more sense?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-wants-israel-apos-100005531.html

Only if you are taking a rational approach to the issue.

hanger4
02-07-2019, 08:46 PM
Only if you are taking a rational approach to the issue.Reckon why Pelosi won't take a rational approach ??

ripmeister
02-07-2019, 09:02 PM
Reckon why Pelosi won't take a rational approach ??

She said she'd support whatever bipartisan agreement is reached and that is beside the point when it comes to what is the best strategy to secure the border.

DGUtley
02-07-2019, 09:09 PM
It may be...

Dr. Who
02-07-2019, 11:20 PM
Wouldn't this approach be a lot cheaper and make more sense?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-wants-israel-apos-100005531.html
Cheaper high tech solutions make more sense than low tech expensive solutions that won't do more than slow people down while they dig tunnels under the wall or fence.

Cletus
02-08-2019, 12:00 AM
Wouldn't this approach be a lot cheaper and make more sense?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-wants-israel-apos-100005531.html

I am trying to figure out if Liberals are all stupid or just hope everyone else is.

Israel's border barrier meets the definition of a "wall". Do people on the Left really just picture something like The Great Wall of China, which incidentally, was actually quite effective.

Common
02-08-2019, 12:57 AM
Cheaper high tech solutions make more sense than low tech expensive solutions that won't do more than slow people down while they dig tunnels under the wall or fence.

No they dont, nothing less than a barrier will work, ive explained this to you and the forum a few times.

High tech solutions are cameras and drones, all they do is identify someone is "Walking/Running" over the border, if a border agent isnt with a 100 yds, they are over and GONE and you can trust they arent going over where they see border agents.

You need BOTH high tech solutions and a barrier to slow them to give the border patrol time to react

Doc we dont want whitewash americans want a final damn solution thats going to actually stop the rape of our border.

The democrat shut the govt down because they dont want a wall, it cost 24 billion in economic output not counting what it cost the govt to shut it down and that would have paid for the wall and kept the govt open and the employees working

Common
02-08-2019, 01:00 AM
Wouldn't this approach be a lot cheaper and make more sense?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-wants-israel-apos-100005531.html
Do you really think that the democrats would allow an electrified barrier, thats what electronically enhanced means.

Tahuyaman
02-08-2019, 02:34 AM
A wall is not what Trump is calling for. I can't figure out why he keeps referring to his proposed barrier as a wall. He's shooting himself in the foot.

Safety
02-08-2019, 03:41 AM
LoL, even in the same thread, Trump sycophants can’t even agree what the fuck a wall is or what Trump wants. There’s even one so disconnected that he is blaming Trumps shutdown on democrats.

Fking :roflmao:

Peter1469
02-08-2019, 05:30 AM
Cheaper high tech solutions make more sense than low tech expensive solutions that won't do more than slow people down while they dig tunnels under the wall or fence.

The wall was always going to be high tech.

Israel has the advantage that if illegals get inside they have zero extra rights than those outside of Israel. We need those laws.

Peter1469
02-08-2019, 05:32 AM
I am trying to figure out if Liberals are all stupid or just hope everyone else is.

Israel's border barrier meets the definition of a "wall". Do people on the Left really just picture something like The Great Wall of China, which incidentally, was actually quite effective.
Right, not sure the OP's point. That wall looks good.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 06:31 AM
Wouldn't this approach be a lot cheaper and make more sense?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-wants-israel-apos-100005531.html
Israel is trying to block terrorists. We're trying to block migrant workers. It'd be smarter, cheaper and more efficient to pass and enforce laws making it illegal to hire or harbor illegals. Lock up a few bosses and apartment managers for a few months and the illegals will no longer have places to work or places to live. Offer them free bus passage back to the border if they turn themselves in. It'll also go a long way toward stopping Visa overstays.

alexa
02-08-2019, 06:58 AM
Do you really think that the democrats would allow an electrified barrier, thats what electronically enhanced means.

No, it isn't.

alexa
02-08-2019, 07:01 AM
The wall was always going to be high tech.

Israel has the advantage that if illegals get inside they have zero extra rights than those outside of Israel. We need those laws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QguzPi-WhvM

lol

yes, we need to be more of an apartheid state, just like Israel

countryboy
02-08-2019, 07:26 AM
Wouldn't this approach be a lot cheaper and make more sense?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-wants-israel-apos-100005531.html

The accepted design for the "wall" IS more of a fence.

countryboy
02-08-2019, 07:28 AM
Cheaper high tech solutions make more sense than low tech expensive solutions that won't do more than slow people down while they dig tunnels under the wall or fence.

The current design employs counter measures to thwart tunneling. I don't understand why libs are so obsessed with this silly talking point.

countryboy
02-08-2019, 07:30 AM
Right, not sure the OP's point. That wall looks good.

His point is, "orange man bad".

Docthehun
02-08-2019, 09:36 AM
The wall was always going to be high tech.

Israel has the advantage that if illegals get inside they have zero extra rights than those outside of Israel. We need those laws.

The attorney in you comes out from time to time. I suspect DGUtley might be nodding his head in unison. You almost made it sound like they had "no" rights, but cleverly inserted "extra" to cover your tracks. Well done!

Docthehun
02-08-2019, 09:38 AM
Right, not sure the OP's point. That wall looks good.

Two for two. I do my best thinking in the early hours of the day.....generally speaking. Add a second "gold star" next to your name.

Docthehun
02-08-2019, 09:55 AM
The accepted design for the "wall" IS more of a fence.

Tell the "boss" that! Hope you didn't think I'm worried one way or another. Your boss seems to think you'll be pissed off and not vote for him in 2020 unless we build a wall. His description, not mine. "I build beautiful walls!" His trial runs were concrete. So why don't you all sit down, tweet the POTUS and tell him the wall can be whatever and you'll still vote for him.

By the way, I'm a lifetime Republican who voted for the "Party's Nominee" as I had promised to do. I'm not for open borders and I don't think most Americans do either. We would all agree that we should be getting our monies worth. I think we would all agree that the money spent should have the biggest impact. It seems obvious to me that the bulk of the problem is at the standard points of entry. See if you can fix those spots first, then move on from there.

Docthehun
02-08-2019, 09:59 AM
His point is, "orange man bad".

"His point is," orange man would be much better served if he actually started to read (not going to happen) and listen to those who really know and understand (not going to happen). "I know more than the Generals."

countryboy
02-08-2019, 10:01 AM
Tell the "boss" that! Hope you didn't think I'm worried one way or another. Your boss seems to think you'll be pissed off and not vote for him in 2020 unless we build a wall. His description, not mine. "I build beautiful walls!" His trial runs were concrete. So why don't you all sit down, tweet the POTUS and tell him the wall can be whatever and you'll still vote for him.

By the way, I'm a lifetime Republican who voted for the "Party's Nominee" as I had promised to do. I'm not for open borders and I don't think most Americans do either. We would all agree that we should be getting our monies worth. I think we would all agree that the money spent should have the biggest impact. It seems obvious to me that the bulk of the problem is at the standard points of entry. See if you can fix those spots first, then move on from there.

Ummm, I don't have a boss. If you're talking about Trump, he is the one who approved the design, and no, the trial runs weren't all concrete. Where did you hear that?

countryboy
02-08-2019, 10:02 AM
"His point is," orange man would be much better served if he actually started to read (not going to happen) and listen to those who really know and understand (not going to happen). "I know more than the Generals."

Nah, I had it right. Classic TDS.

Common
02-08-2019, 10:02 AM
LoL, even in the same thread, Trump sycophants can’t even agree what the fuck a wall is or what Trump wants. There’s even one so disconnected that he is blaming Trumps shutdown on democrats.
The shutdown totally belonged to the democrats but you know that
Fking :roflmao:

Common
02-08-2019, 10:04 AM
Tell the "boss" that! Hope you didn't think I'm worried one way or another. Your boss seems to think you'll be pissed off and not vote for him in 2020 unless we build a wall. His description, not mine. "I build beautiful walls!" His trial runs were concrete. So why don't you all sit down, tweet the POTUS and tell him the wall can be whatever and you'll still vote for him.

By the way, I'm a lifetime Republican who voted for the "Party's Nominee" as I had promised to do. I'm not for open borders and I don't think most Americans do either. We would all agree that we should be getting our monies worth. I think we would all agree that the money spent should have the biggest impact. It seems obvious to me that the bulk of the problem is at the standard points of entry. See if you can fix those spots first, then move on from there.
Hes already indicated he would accept a fence version if appropriate, your boss Nancy is balking at that

Common
02-08-2019, 10:09 AM
Trump Will Accept Metal Fence Instead Of Concrete Wall

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-will-accept-metal-fence-instead-of-concrete-wall/ar-BBRQHo9


Mick Mulvaney: Donald Trump Will 'Give Up A Concrete Wallhttps://www.newsweek.com/mick-mulvaney-donald-trump-will-give-concrete-wall-accept-metal-fence-us-1280549

Docthehun
02-08-2019, 10:13 AM
Ummm, I don't have a boss. If you're talking about Trump, he is the one who approved the design, and no, the trial runs weren't all concrete. Where did you hear that?

You're right about concrete. Still.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/see-all-8-prototypes-trump-s-big-beautiful-border-wall-n813346

Docthehun
02-08-2019, 10:18 AM
Hes already indicated he would accept a fence version if appropriate, your boss Nancy is balking at that

That's not the point. Trump would accept a privacy fence if he thought it wouldn't cost him votes. Do you really think he personally cares? He didn't seem too concerned about some of his own employees.

countryboy
02-08-2019, 10:24 AM
You're right about concrete. Still.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/see-all-8-prototypes-trump-s-big-beautiful-border-wall-n813346

Of course I'm right, I'm a Baggins! Not some blockheaded Bracegirdle from Hardbottle.

Still, what?

Captdon
02-08-2019, 12:02 PM
The purpose isn't catch them. The point is to stop them from getting in to start with.Drones and cameras won't do that. Walls will.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 12:26 PM
The point is to solve the illegal immigration problem once and for all. We have at least 12M illegals in the US. Walls won't get rid of them. Up to 40% of illegals come here legally on some form of visa. Walls won't stop them. Most drugs come through ports of entry on trucks or ships. Walls won't stop them.

While walls have some use, especially in urban areas, focusing on walls as a cure-all for illegal immigration is mind-numbingly blind. The reason illegals come or stay here is for money: Jobs and benefits. Fix it so they can't get it unless they are here legally.

https://www.latimes.com/resizer/IKfS2DI6LWzk_BZNcuT95ZG9JXk=/800x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5X6LFEVCZZGSFOBX73KD6QHMWM.jpg

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 12:27 PM
A wall is not what Trump is calling for. I can't figure out why he keeps referring to his proposed barrier as a wall. He's shooting himself in the foot.
You are right about that. I really don't know what it is he wants. It seems to be constantly changing.

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 12:30 PM
Tell the "boss" that! Hope you didn't think I'm worried one way or another. Your boss seems to think you'll be pissed off and not vote for him in 2020 unless we build a wall. His description, not mine. "I build beautiful walls!" His trial runs were concrete. So why don't you all sit down, tweet the POTUS and tell him the wall can be whatever and you'll still vote for him.

By the way, I'm a lifetime Republican who voted for the "Party's Nominee" as I had promised to do. I'm not for open borders and I don't think most Americans do either. We would all agree that we should be getting our monies worth. I think we would all agree that the money spent should have the biggest impact. It seems obvious to me that the bulk of the problem is at the standard points of entry. See if you can fix those spots first, then move on from there.
Doc! Would you quit being so rational. Its becoming tiresome. :wink:

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 12:31 PM
You are right about that. I really don't know what it is he wants. It seems to be constantly changing.
He's going through the Five Stages of Grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

Right now he's going through the bargaining stage. So far he's bargained down from a solid 2000 mile wall to a fence in some spots.

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 12:32 PM
That's not the point. Trump would accept a privacy fence if he thought it wouldn't cost him votes. Do you really think he personally cares? He didn't seem too concerned about some of his own employees.

Ouch!

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 12:34 PM
He's going through the Five Stages of Grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

Right now he's going through the bargaining stage. So far he's bargained down from a solid 2000 mile wall to a fence in some spots.

Kubler Ross ? would be proud.

Tahuyaman
02-08-2019, 12:38 PM
You are right about that. I really don't know what it is he wants. It seems to be constantly changing.


Hes been quite clear at times. He has stated that he wants what the border patrol has told him they prefer. A steel fence like structure which will provide observation to the other side.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 12:40 PM
Hes been quite clear at times. He has stated that he wants what the border patrol has told him they prefer. A steel fence like structure which will provide observation to the other side.
A steel fence in some spots and increased tech at ports of entry.

hanger4
02-08-2019, 12:42 PM
He's going through the Five Stages of Grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.Right now he's going through the bargaining stage. So far he's bargained down from a solid 2000 mile wall to a fence in some spots.Actually it's only about 1,300 miles, there's about 650 miles of wall fence barrier up now.

Tahuyaman
02-08-2019, 12:47 PM
A steel fence in some spots and increased tech at ports of entry.

Correct. I don't understand why he and everyone else keeps referring to this concrete wall thing.

MisterVeritis
02-08-2019, 12:49 PM
Ouch!
Don't give Doc too much credit. He is wrong, of course. You two are on the same side.

MisterVeritis
02-08-2019, 12:50 PM
That's not the point. Trump would accept a privacy fence if he thought it wouldn't cost him votes. Do you really think he personally cares? He didn't seem too concerned about some of his own employees.
It is clear you loathe the President. Fortunately, it doesn't matter.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 12:58 PM
Correct. I don't understand why he and everyone else keeps referring to this concrete wall thing.
Probably because he insinuated it through out his campaign and after the election. :)


"I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me, and I’ll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great great wall on our southern border and I’ll have Mexico pay for that wall."

“I will build the wall and Mexico’s going to pay for it and they will be happy to pay for it. Because Mexico is making so much money from the United States that that’s going to be peanuts. And all these other characters say, ‘Oh, they won’t pay, they won’t pay.’ They don’t know the first thing about how to negotiate. Trust me, Mexico will pay for it.”

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 01:17 PM
Hes been quite clear at times. He has stated that he wants what the border patrol has told him they prefer. A steel fence like structure which will provide observation to the other side.

As you say "at times" necessarily meaning not quite clear at other times. I agree with Doc that much of this is political and not born out of some well thought out strategy to address the issue.

hanger4
02-08-2019, 01:27 PM
Probably because he insinuated it through out his campaign and after the election. :)"I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me, and I’ll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great great wall on our southern border and I’ll have Mexico pay for that wall."“I will build the wall and Mexico’s going to pay for it and they will be happy to pay for it. Because Mexico is making so much money from the United States that that’s going to be peanuts. And all these other characters say, ‘Oh, they won’t pay, they won’t pay.’ They don’t know the first thing about how to negotiate. Trust me, Mexico will pay for it.”Damn that Trump for negotiating and compromising :grin:

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 01:29 PM
Damn that Trump for negotiating and compromising :grin:
What exactly has he compromised on regarding this issue? Far as I can tell, to date he has been uncompromising.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 01:30 PM
As you say "at times" necessarily meaning not quite clear at other times. I agree with Doc that much of this is political and not born out of some well thought out strategy to address the issue.
It made great red meat for the great unwashed masses of the "poorly educated people" who attend his "love me" rallies.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/02/24/donald-trump-nevada-poorly-educated/80860078/
"We won the evangelicals. We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated," he said during his victory speech (https://www.usatoday.com/media/cinematic/video/80842732/).

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 01:31 PM
What exactly has he compromised on regarding this issue? Far as I can tell, to date he has been uncompromising.
Some might see Trump backing off a 2000 mile wall to a fence in strategic spots as "compromising" but others will see it as backpedaling like a circus clown on a unicycle.

alexa
02-08-2019, 01:35 PM
He tries to bully, and if that doesn't work then he folds.

Every time.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 01:43 PM
He tries to bully, and if that doesn't work then he folds.

Every time....but he whines a lot about it first. :)

hanger4
02-08-2019, 01:46 PM
What exactly has he compromised on regarding this issue? Far as I can tell, to date he has been uncompromising.If you don't believe walls to steel slatted fencing is a compromise then you believe walls and fencing are the same. Right ??

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 01:52 PM
Some might see Trump backing off a 2000 mile wall to a fence in strategic spots as "compromising" but others will see it as backpedaling like a circus clown on a unicycle.

LOL. That would equate with my oft used comparison of Trump to PT Barnum.

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 01:55 PM
If you don't believe walls to steel slatted fencing is a compromise then you believe walls and fencing are the same. Right ??
No. I've not been drawn into the semantic debate of walls versus fences versus bollards or whatever the hell it is. How about we agree to call them physical barriers.

hanger4
02-08-2019, 02:12 PM
No. I've not been drawn into the semantic debate of walls versus fences versus bollards or whatever the hell it is. How about we agree to call them physical barriers.Fine with me

alexa
02-08-2019, 02:19 PM
Have we gotten the check from Mexico yet ??

MisterVeritis
02-08-2019, 02:24 PM
Have we gotten the check from Mexico yet ??
The recurring payments will come later.

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 02:27 PM
The recurring payments will come later.

Does that mean its in the mail? :grin:

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 02:32 PM
Does that mean its in the mail? :grin:
It means Trump was talking out of his ass. It'll never happen. The American taxpayer will fund not only building the wall but maintaining it.

alexa
02-08-2019, 02:36 PM
It means Trump was talking out of his ass. It'll never happen. The American taxpayer will fund not only building the wall but maintaining it.
But he said...

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 02:39 PM
But he said...
...welllll, he said he didn't pay off Stormy either. :)

alexa
02-08-2019, 02:41 PM
...welllll, he said he didn't pay off Stormy either. :)
Fair point.

He said it would be big and concrete too.

I'm starting to get a little disillusioned here.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 02:43 PM
Fair point.

He said it would be big and concrete too.

I'm starting to get a little disillusioned here.
Trump is mostly mouth and big hair....with little hands. :D

The bottom line is that what needs to be done is slowly, too slowly IMO, happening: put up some fencing in strategic areas, beef up the ports of entry and, hopefully, immigration reform.

alexa
02-08-2019, 02:47 PM
Trump is mostly mouth and big hair....with little hands. :D

The bottom line is that what needs to be done is slowly, too slowly IMO, happening: put up some fencing in strategic areas, beef up the ports of entry and, hopefully, immigration reform.
That only leaves the 50% of illegals who overstay their visas.

MisterVeritis
02-08-2019, 02:55 PM
Does that mean its in the mail? :grin:
No. But Mexico will pay and pay and pay.

MisterVeritis
02-08-2019, 02:56 PM
But he said...
Don't worry your pretty little head over it.

MisterVeritis
02-08-2019, 02:57 PM
That only leaves the 50% of illegals who overstay their visas.
There is no reason why we cannot solve the visa overstay problem. No reason if we don't count the Congress.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 03:35 PM
No. But Mexico will pay and pay and pay.

When and when and when?

Cletus
02-08-2019, 04:12 PM
The point is to solve the illegal immigration problem once and for all. We have at least 12M illegals in the US. Walls won't get rid of them. Up to 40% of illegals come here legally on some form of visa. Walls won't stop them. Most drugs come through ports of entry on trucks or ships. Walls won't stop them.

So, because a wall won't stop EVERYTHING, you think it should not be used to stop ANYTHING.

Okay. I don't see the logic in that, but okay.

ripmeister
02-08-2019, 04:15 PM
[QUOTE=Bad Bob;2530152]The point is to solve the illegal immigration problem once and for all. We have at least 12M illegals in the US. Walls won't get rid of them. Up to 40% of illegals come here legally on some form of visa. Walls won't stop them. Most drugs come through ports of entry on trucks or ships. Walls won't stop them.

So, because a wall won't stop EVERYTHING, you think it should not be used to stop ANYTHING.

Okay. I don't see the logic in that, but okay.
Its about how much bang you get for your buck. The ROI on a wall is pretty low as far as I can tell.

Cletus
02-08-2019, 04:16 PM
Israel is trying to block terrorists. We're trying to block migrant workers.


We are both trying to stop invaders.

It'd be smarter, cheaper and more efficient to pass and enforce laws making it illegal to hire or harbor illegals. Lock up a few bosses and apartment managers for a few months and the illegals will no longer have places to work or places to live. [/quote]


Do you really believe that? There will always be jobs they can do and places they can live.

MisterVeritis
02-08-2019, 04:16 PM
Its about how much bang you get for your buck. The ROI on a wall is pretty low as far as I can tell.
The wall is not an investment. It is self-defense.

Cletus
02-08-2019, 04:19 PM
What exactly has he compromised on regarding this issue? Far as I can tell, to date he has been uncompromising.
As he should be.

Cletus
02-08-2019, 04:20 PM
Some might see Trump backing off a 2000 mile wall to a fence in strategic spots as "compromising" but others will see it as backpedaling like a circus clown on a unicycle.

Those who do are stupid.

Cletus
02-08-2019, 04:22 PM
That only leaves the 50% of illegals who overstay their visas.

Track them down and deport them... or hang them, whichever is cheaper.

Peter1469
02-08-2019, 06:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QguzPi-WhvM

lol

yes, we need to be more of an apartheid state, just like Israel

Israel is not an apartheid state.

Peter1469
02-08-2019, 06:01 PM
The attorney in you comes out from time to time. I suspect @DGUtley (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2019) might be nodding his head in unison. You almost made it sound like they had "no" rights, but cleverly inserted "extra" to cover your tracks. Well done!

I added extra for a reason. Migrants attempting to enter the US from outside have less rights than those who make it inside before they get caught.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 06:27 PM
Those who do are stupid.LOL Disagreed, but I do know who is stupid.

25248

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 06:29 PM
We are both trying to stop invaders.

It'd be smarter, cheaper and more efficient to pass and enforce laws making it illegal to hire or harbor illegals. Lock up a few bosses and apartment managers for a few months and the illegals will no longer have places to work or places to live.


Do you really believe that? There will always be jobs they can do and places they can live.[/QUOTE]

If Mexico is really trying to invade the US, then why aren't we attacking Mexico like Israel attacks Gaza? It'd be self-defense, right?

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 06:30 PM
So, because a wall won't stop EVERYTHING, you think it should not be used to stop ANYTHING.

Okay. I don't see the logic in that, but okay.Incorrect. I'm saying the American taxpayers deserve a fiscally responsible solution.

Cletus
02-08-2019, 06:38 PM
Incorrect. I'm saying the American taxpayers deserve a fiscally responsible solution.
Do you really think greatly (because it would have to be greatly) increasing the number of Border Patrol Agents and deploying a bunch of high tech monitoring devices would be more cost effective in the long term?

It would not. Nor would it do anything to significantly reduce the number of incursions on our border. Arrests of people who have already breached the border might increase, but why not stop them before they cross?

The only thing that will do that is a physical barrier.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 06:52 PM
Do you really think greatly (because it would have to be greatly) increasing the number of Border Patrol Agents and deploying a bunch of high tech monitoring devices would be more cost effective in the long term?

It would not. Nor would it do anything to significantly reduce the number of incursions on our border. Arrests of people who have already breached the border might increase, but why not stop them before they cross?

The only thing that will do that is a physical barrier.
Obviously I can't help you if you're going to make up things and can't remember not only what I posted about 20 minutes ago but what you previously tried to quote (and botched). Good luck, Cletus.


Israel is trying to block terrorists. We're trying to block migrant workers. It'd be smarter, cheaper and more efficient to pass and enforce laws making it illegal to hire or harbor illegals. Lock up a few bosses and apartment managers for a few months and the illegals will no longer have places to work or places to live. Offer them free bus passage back to the border if they turn themselves in. It'll also go a long way toward stopping Visa overstays.

Cletus
02-08-2019, 07:34 PM
Obviously I can't help you if you're going to make up things and can't remember not only what I posted about 20 minutes ago but what you previously tried to quote (and botched). Good luck, Cletus.
I already addressed that silliness. What you suggest would do nothing to stop the influx of invaders across our southern border.

With regard to the other, I may have mixed you up with one of the others who knows nothing about how to address the problem of illegal border crossings. You all sound pretty much the same after a while.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 07:41 PM
I already addressed that silliness....
If that was true, then why did you distort it with the secondary post?

Why are you ridiculing what the Border Patrol asked for?

Captdon
02-08-2019, 08:31 PM
The Wall is to stop them from entering in the first place. It has worked where used. The objective is not to arrest them after they get here. A drone seeing them come in is as sensible as a Welcome sign.

The Democrats have no legitimate problem with the wall. They always supported the idea until Trump brought it up. The Democrats are fakers and liars.

Max Rockatansky
02-08-2019, 08:43 PM
We, the People should work smarter, not harder to keep out and get ridd of illegals seeking jobs and benefits.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2018/12/politics/border-wall-cnnphotos/
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/interactive/2018/12/politics/border-wall-cnnphotos/media/02-border-wall.jpg

Cletus
02-09-2019, 01:22 AM
If that was true, then why did you distort it with the secondary post?

I didn't distort anything. If I responded to something someone else said, it was because all you clowns who spew the same bullshit over and over again without having a clue about what is in the best interest of this nation, or maybe just not caring about what is in the best interests of this nation all blend to together after a while. If you are not saying something stupid, one of your clones is. It is all the same.


Why are you ridiculing what the Border Patrol asked for?
Why don't you try being honest about what the Border Patrol would like?

Cletus
02-09-2019, 01:24 AM
The Wall is to stop them from entering in the first place. It has worked where used. The objective is not to arrest them after they get here. A drone seeing them come in is as sensible as a Welcome sign.

Spot on.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2019, 09:38 AM
I didn't distort anything. ...
Now you're just proving yourself to be a liar:
.....With regard to the other, I may have mixed you up with one of the others who knows nothing about how to address the problem of illegal border crossings. You all sound pretty much the same after a while....and lame.

The fact remains building a wall, fence, whatever even from Brownsville, TX to San Diego, CA won't solve the illegal immigration problem. It won't stop the ~40% who overstay their visas, it won't get rid of the 12M illegals already here. The best way to resolve the illegal immigration problem is to take away the incentives of why they come here: jobs and benefits. Why aren't we doing that? Because too many dumbasses prefer a monument to the stupidity of man.



Walls have limited effectiveness, but drug traffickers and terrorists don't walk through the desert. They come by trucks, ships and airplanes. Beefing up port of entry security is the best way to control that problem just as the Border Patrol says.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/401054-incoming-border-patrol-chief-border-wall-most-certainly-will-assist-securing
It certainly helps. It's not a be all end all. It's a part of a system. We need the technology, we need that infrastructure," she added in the interview that aired Thursday.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/01/want-know-where-most-drugs-cross-border-look-border-patrols-press-releases/?noredirect=on
We have noted before (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/08/key-parts-trump-administrations-border-rhetoric-are-wrong-according-trump-administration/?utm_term=.029e9bbfc839)that various agencies, including the Drug Enforcement Administration and Homeland Security have reported — since Trump took office — most drugs that cross the border come through existing ports of entry. The best example of such testimony probably comes from Trump’s former chief of staff John F. Kelly, who testified before Congress while still Homeland Security secretary in 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/08/key-parts-trump-administrations-border-rhetoric-are-wrong-according-trump-administration/?utm_term=.63574011d6d3
Trump and his team also have linked the need for a wall to the opioid crisis, highlighting drug flow into the country broadly and the import of addictive substances such as heroin and fentanyl specifically.
But, again, the administration also tells us something important about that influx: It generally happens at legal ports of entry.
https://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-fixed-fortifications-are-a-monument-to-the-stupidity-of-man-george-s-patton-258451.jpgPatton understood that a good defense is a defense in depth. That a wall is merely an obstacle. That the main defenses must be more than that single line of defense. The French didn't understand that point and were invaded because of their stupidity.

Captdon
02-09-2019, 10:10 AM
Actually it's only about 1,300 miles, there's about 650 miles of wall fence barrier up now.


Actually it is less than that. Some places don't need a wall. The total need is 550 miles.

Captdon
02-09-2019, 10:11 AM
As you say "at times" necessarily meaning not quite clear at other times. I agree with Doc that much of this is political and not born out of some well thought out strategy to address the issue.

It's all political. The Democrats were for a wall until Trump campaigned on it.

Captdon
02-09-2019, 10:15 AM
LOL. That would equate with my oft used comparison of Trump to PT Barnum.

The Democartic National Conventions have always fascinated me. They are a tent full of clowns and an audience of freak and free-loaders.

Trump spoke the truth and he didn't mince his words. That's what has to you upset. He actually mean it. You aren't used to that and don't have the ability to see it.

Captdon
02-09-2019, 10:18 AM
Fair point.

He said it would be big and concrete too.

I'm starting to get a little disillusioned here.

Try getting to be a little smart and less of a troll.

Captdon
02-09-2019, 10:19 AM
So, because a wall won't stop EVERYTHING, you think it should not be used to stop ANYTHING.

Okay. I don't see the logic in that, but okay.

You can't see what isn't there.

Captdon
02-09-2019, 10:20 AM
The Democrats want open borders. That is a fact.

Captdon
02-09-2019, 10:22 AM
[QUOTE=Cletus;2530375]
Its about how much bang you get for your buck. The ROI on a wall is pretty low as far as I can tell.

It's about closing the border form people who don't belong here. It has nothing to do with ROI. It is about who we want and who we don't.We don't want unskilled labor. We have enough of them now.

Captdon
02-09-2019, 10:25 AM
Do you really think greatly (because it would have to be greatly) increasing the number of Border Patrol Agents and deploying a bunch of high tech monitoring devices would be more cost effective in the long term?

It would not. Nor would it do anything to significantly reduce the number of incursions on our border. Arrests of people who have already breached the border might increase, but why not stop them before they cross?

The only thing that will do that is a physical barrier.

There is no arguing with the stupid. Stupidity is a birth defect. The worse ones think they aren't being detected.

Peter1469
02-09-2019, 11:02 AM
Now you're just proving yourself to be a liar: ...and lame.

The fact remains building a wall, fence, whatever even from Brownsville, TX to San Diego, CA won't solve the illegal immigration problem. It won't stop the ~40% who overstay their visas, it won't get rid of the 12M illegals already here. The best way to resolve the illegal immigration problem is to take away the incentives of why they come here: jobs and benefits. Why aren't we doing that? Because too many dumbasses prefer a monument to the stupidity of man.



Walls have limited effectiveness, but drug traffickers and terrorists don't walk through the desert. They come by trucks, ships and airplanes. Beefing up port of entry security is the best way to control that problem just as the Border Patrol says.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/401054-incoming-border-patrol-chief-border-wall-most-certainly-will-assist-securing
It certainly helps. It's not a be all end all. It's a part of a system. We need the technology, we need that infrastructure," she added in the interview that aired Thursday.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/01/want-know-where-most-drugs-cross-border-look-border-patrols-press-releases/?noredirect=on
We have noted before (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/08/key-parts-trump-administrations-border-rhetoric-are-wrong-according-trump-administration/?utm_term=.029e9bbfc839)that various agencies, including the Drug Enforcement Administration and Homeland Security have reported — since Trump took office — most drugs that cross the border come through existing ports of entry. The best example of such testimony probably comes from Trump’s former chief of staff John F. Kelly, who testified before Congress while still Homeland Security secretary in 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/08/key-parts-trump-administrations-border-rhetoric-are-wrong-according-trump-administration/?utm_term=.63574011d6d3
Trump and his team also have linked the need for a wall to the opioid crisis, highlighting drug flow into the country broadly and the import of addictive substances such as heroin and fentanyl specifically.
But, again, the administration also tells us something important about that influx: It generally happens at legal ports of entry.
https://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-fixed-fortifications-are-a-monument-to-the-stupidity-of-man-george-s-patton-258451.jpgPatton understood that a good defense is a defense in depth. That a wall is merely an obstacle. That the main defenses must be more than that single line of defense. The French didn't understand that point and were invaded because of their stupidity.
Patton as a general in war is not a good analogy to a nation defending its borders during peace time.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2019, 11:10 AM
Patton as a general in war is not a good analogy to a nation defending its borders during peace time.
Tell that to those constantly screaming "we're being invaded!!!" and to the ones constantly comparing the Israeli wall to the one on our southern border.

The analogy holds because a single line of defense is deeply flawed. We need a defense in depth, something that captures/prevents not only new illegal immigrants coming from the south, but those coming from any direction, by any means or who are already here. Blowing billions of dollars on a solution that is doomed to fail is fiscally irresponsible. Walls do work, but only in certain circumstances. They're not a cure all. It's a lie to claim most drugs and terrorists are crossing the wall-less desert. It's a lie to say or imply that "the Wall" will fix the illegal immigration problem.

Peter1469
02-09-2019, 11:24 AM
Tell that to those constantly screaming "we're being invaded!!!" and to the ones constantly comparing the Israeli wall to the one on our southern border.

The analogy holds because a single line of defense is deeply flawed. We need a defense in depth, something that captures/prevents not only new illegal immigrants coming from the south, but those coming from any direction, by any means or who are already here. Blowing billions of dollars on a solution that is doomed to fail is fiscally irresponsible. Walls do work, but only in certain circumstances. They're not a cure all. It's a lie to claim most drugs and terrorists are crossing the wall-less desert. It's a lie to say or imply that "the Wall" will fix the illegal immigration problem.
A wall is only part of the solution. I agree.

Mister D
02-09-2019, 11:34 AM
A wall is only part of the solution. I agree.

Everyone agrees. It's a straw man.

alexa
02-09-2019, 11:46 AM
It's a straw man just like the constant mewling that Democrats want open borders.

If the toddler-in-chief keeps his yap shut, maybe we can get it done and move on.

Unless Anne and Rush object, of course.

MisterVeritis
02-09-2019, 11:47 AM
It's a straw man just like the constant mewling that Democrats want open borders.

If the toddler-in-chief keeps his yap shut, maybe we can get it done and move on.

Unless Anne and Rush object, of course.
Of course you want open borders. So do many establishment Republicans. If you and they didn't the wall would already exist.

Mister D
02-09-2019, 11:50 AM
Of course you want open borders. So do many establishment Republicans. If you and they didn't the wall would already exist.

Exactly.

alexa
02-09-2019, 11:50 AM
Of course you want open borders. So do many establishment Republicans. If you and they didn't the wall would already exist.
mmm hmm

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2019, 11:52 AM
A wall is only part of the solution. I agree.True. What bothers me is that it's the only solution being offered/popularized.

The cheaper, more efficient solutions are being by passed in favor of the most expensive, least effective solution. Why?

MisterVeritis
02-09-2019, 11:54 AM
True. What bothers me is that it's the only solution being offered/popularized.

The cheaper, more efficient solutions are being by passed in favor of the most expensive, least effective solution. Why?
You err. Lay out your cheaper, more effective solution. Let's examine it.

NapRover
02-09-2019, 01:56 PM
If an "I'd Turn Back If I Were You" sign would work, I'd support it. Whatever works-go for it. Why don't dem "experts" meet with Trump's "experts" and come up with a solution? Close the doors, don't reveal whose solution it is, just call it a bipartisan solution. Give it 90 days, if it doesn't work, flog them all and put them back in the room again.

Cletus
02-09-2019, 02:58 PM
Now you're just proving yourself to be a liar: ...and lame.

You are full of shit.


The fact remains building a wall, fence, whatever even from Brownsville, TX to San Diego, CA won't solve the illegal immigration problem.

Nobody claims it will. The only people who even suggest that are lowlives like you who are trying to blow smoke up everyone's asses by claiming that wall's proponents are saying the wall is the only solution to illegal immigration. That makes YOU the liar.

The wall is a necessary component of a comprehensive plan to prevent illegal border crossings and limit the number of illegal aliens in the country. It is a PART of the plan, not THE plan. Your attempts to portray it otherwise is dishonest.


It won't stop the ~40% who overstay their visas, it won't get rid of the 12M illegals already here.

I have never heard anyone claim it would or that it is supposed to. Again, you are trying to deflect from the fact that the wall is intended to prevent ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSINGS and it would do so much more efficiently than drones or increased border patrol stations or arresting employers who hire illegals or any of the other bullshit you are trying to push.


The best way to resolve the illegal immigration problem is to take away the incentives of why they come here: jobs and benefits. Why aren't we doing that? Because too many dumbasses prefer a monument to the stupidity of man.


The stupidity here lies in your approach. The dishonesty lies in your attempt to sell it.


Patton understood that a good defense is a defense in depth. That a wall is merely an obstacle. That the main defenses must be more than that single line of defense. The French didn't understand that point and were invaded because of their stupidity.

It appears you know no more about Patton than you do firearms. Patton was talking about walls as a defense against highly mobile armies, not illegal border incursions. The Maginot Line, which is what I am assuming you were referencing by mentioning the French was actually quite effective where it was in place. The Germans didn't defeat the line by going through it, they went AROUND it.

While you are learning a little more about firearms, you may want to do some homework on Patton and the history of land warfare, as well.

Cletus
02-09-2019, 03:00 PM
[QUOTE=ripmeister;2530377]

It's about closing the border form people who don't belong here. It has nothing to do with ROI. It is about who we want and who we don't.We don't want unskilled labor. We have enough of them now.

I didn't say that.

I believe it was Ripmeister. I actually believe the wall to be much more cost effective in the long term than the supposed high tech solutions the ignorant unwashed are pushing here.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2019, 03:00 PM
You are full of shit....Disagreed but thanks for taking so long to type out that post. :)

Cletus
02-09-2019, 03:04 PM
A wall is only part of the solution. I agree.
Of course it is. It however, a critical part of the solution and no solution presented to date will work without a wall. A physical barrier is the ONLY thing that will actually prevent illegal border crossings. Walls have worked for thousands of years and they work today.

Max Rockatansky
02-09-2019, 03:04 PM
If an "I'd Turn Back If I Were You" sign would work, I'd support it. Whatever works-go for it. Why don't dem "experts" meet with Trump's "experts" and come up with a solution? Close the doors, don't reveal whose solution it is, just call it a bipartisan solution. Give it 90 days, if it doesn't work, flog them all and put them back in the room again.
It's not like this is a new problem. It's been going on for decades.

IMHO, the real problem is that there is too much money being made by certain industries and they are paying off enough contributing enough money to both key Democrats and Republicans that the problem isn't being solved. "The Wall" is just red meat for the clueless and a means to make money off the taxpayers. Sad.

Cletus
02-09-2019, 03:05 PM
Disagreed but thanks for taking so long to type out that post. :)

It was a simple statement of fact.

Captdon
02-09-2019, 06:27 PM
[QUOTE=Captdon;2530731]

I didn't say that.

I believe it was Ripmeister. I actually believe the wall to be much more cost effective in the long term than the supposed high tech solutions the ignorant unwashed are pushing here.

Mea culpa.

DGUtley
02-09-2019, 07:48 PM
Now you're just proving yourself to be a liar: ...and lame.

The fact remains building a wall, fence, whatever even from Brownsville, TX to San Diego, CA won't solve the illegal immigration problem. It won't stop the ~40% who overstay their visas, it won't get rid of the 12M illegals already here. The best way to resolve the illegal immigration problem is to take away the incentives of why they come here: jobs and benefits. Why aren't we doing that? Because too many dumbasses prefer a monument to the stupidity of man.



Walls have limited effectiveness, but drug traffickers and terrorists don't walk through the desert. They come by trucks, ships and airplanes. Beefing up port of entry security is the best way to control that problem just as the Border Patrol says.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/401054-incoming-border-patrol-chief-border-wall-most-certainly-will-assist-securing
It certainly helps. It's not a be all end all. It's a part of a system. We need the technology, we need that infrastructure," she added in the interview that aired Thursday.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/01/want-know-where-most-drugs-cross-border-look-border-patrols-press-releases/?noredirect=on
We have noted before (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/08/key-parts-trump-administrations-border-rhetoric-are-wrong-according-trump-administration/?utm_term=.029e9bbfc839)that various agencies, including the Drug Enforcement Administration and Homeland Security have reported — since Trump took office — most drugs that cross the border come through existing ports of entry. The best example of such testimony probably comes from Trump’s former chief of staff John F. Kelly, who testified before Congress while still Homeland Security secretary in 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/08/key-parts-trump-administrations-border-rhetoric-are-wrong-according-trump-administration/?utm_term=.63574011d6d3
Trump and his team also have linked the need for a wall to the opioid crisis, highlighting drug flow into the country broadly and the import of addictive substances such as heroin and fentanyl specifically.
But, again, the administration also tells us something important about that influx: It generally happens at legal ports of entry.
https://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-fixed-fortifications-are-a-monument-to-the-stupidity-of-man-george-s-patton-258451.jpgPatton understood that a good defense is a defense in depth. That a wall is merely an obstacle. That the main defenses must be more than that single line of defense. The French didn't understand that point and were invaded because of their stupidity.



WARNING Bad Bob, please refrain from name-calling and insults.

Mister D
02-09-2019, 07:53 PM
Bob, please also refrain from stupid analogies.

nathanbforrest45
02-09-2019, 08:01 PM
Actually, I agree a barrier at the border will not completely end our illegal immigration issues. I agree with Bob (Heaven forgive me) on ending the incentives to come here in the first place (It seems that AOC is working on that by turning us into another Venezuela, why come here when Caracas is closer). I have long advocated extremely high fines or jail terms for those hiring illegals even if done so unwittingly.

However, I would also say a physical barrier like a wall or steel slat fence will go a long way to cut down on those illegals getting here in the first place.

If we are truly serious about ending the scourge of drug abuse perhaps we should adopt China's policy against its opium addicts at the turn of the last century. Caught using you go into rehab, caught a second time and you are executed. Caught selling and you are executed. It will not completely end drug use but it will certainly become a lot more manageable.

Tahuyaman
02-09-2019, 08:03 PM
She said she'd support whatever bipartisan agreement is reached and that is beside the point when it comes to what is the best strategy to secure the border.
So, she's changed her view?

NapRover
02-10-2019, 10:02 AM
It's not like this is a new problem. It's been going on for decades.

IMHO, the real problem is that there is too much money being made by certain industries and they are paying off enough contributing enough money to both key Democrats and Republicans that the problem isn't being solved. "The Wall" is just red meat for the clueless and a means to make money off the taxpayers. Sad.

I'm not buying that--we need legal immigrants and should follow the law (or change it) for illegals. We need to do whatever is necessary to follow the law. Cost is really irrelevant to me. A lot of people who support the wall aren't "clueless".

Captdon
02-10-2019, 12:31 PM
We need the wall. Trump has to get more than 1.3 billion or not run again. I don't know how much more but 2 billion would be the minimum DACA had better not be in it unless there's 25 billion.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 12:47 PM
It is clear you loathe the President. Fortunately, it doesn't matter.

Well first off, didn't you throw him under the bus when he caved on the shutdown? At least I've been consistent. I don't loathe Trump, but he scares me. He's impulsive. He thinks everyone loves and respects him, especially on the world front. He's alienated many long time friends. We'd soon find out if we got our *** in the wringer and needed old friends to give us a helping hand. His circle of buddies wouldn't be on my list. At least they all share a common trait; cutthroat.

I give him credit, where credit is due. He's a tough negotiator, often winning, but embellishes every victory which lends to general impression that he's a liar and his word can't be trusted. My Republican friends sure can't forget the barbecue we celebrated with the infamous line, "You can keep your insurance!" "By God, the President's a liar!" "Hang him!" "No!" "Hang em' both!!!" "Better yet, get a hold of the Ruskies' and see if they can help."

He's smart, but obviously not educated. Somewhere along the line he lost the urge to learn and that's a problem when you're the most powerful ruler on the planet. He goes through people like they're candy. So yea, despite the economy, which doesn't seem to have been a game changer for the average Joe, he scares me. I hope for the country, I'm dead wrong. So that means, I'm pulling for the President.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 12:53 PM
Of course I'm right, I'm a Baggins! Not some blockheaded Bracegirdle from Hardbottle.

Still, what?

Is that Hobbit lingo?

In my book, they (the demos) all look like walls. Didn't that manage to breach three or four of them? They should decide soon so that I can get to building ladders. At this point, I'm not certain if I should build 32' or twenty footers.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 12:56 PM
Ummm, I don't have a boss. If you're talking about Trump, he is the one who approved the design, and no, the trial runs weren't all concrete. Where did you hear that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngXC2rAjFKA

countryboy
02-10-2019, 12:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngXC2rAjFKA
I serve God, my wife, and my customers. In that order.

Cool song though, I'm not a huge fan of Dylan, but like that song.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 12:59 PM
Hes already indicated he would accept a fence version if appropriate, your boss Nancy is balking at that


Talk is cheap. What's he inked?

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 01:01 PM
I serve God, my wife, and my customers. In that order.

Cool song though, I'm not a huge fan of Dylan, but like that song.

That list is right down my alley! Good for you! Pick up a gold star.

countryboy
02-10-2019, 01:05 PM
Is that Hobbit lingo?
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/2f033761-a901-4931-9ce0-ab2d982b8f24

In my book, they (the demos) all look like walls. Didn't that manage to breach three or four of them? They should decide soon so that I can get to building ladders. At this point, I'm not certain if I should build 32' or twenty footers.
Yes, because everyone will be able to carry 32' ladders across the desert.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 01:14 PM
No. But Mexico will pay and pay and pay.

Well, if you mean by the AMC agreement, then Mexico pays a third, we pick up a third and so do the Canadians. Bet they're thrilled!

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 01:16 PM
So, because a wall won't stop EVERYTHING, you think it should not be used to stop ANYTHING.

Okay. I don't see the logic in that, but okay.

Should we ignore everything we know concerning the concept of "diminishing returns"?

Captdon
02-10-2019, 01:36 PM
Should we ignore everything we know concerning the concept of "diminishing returns"?

Whatever you mean by that.

The wall is part of the solution, not all of it. We have no legitimate way to stop the border-crossings now. Drones can tell us that they are crossing but it won't stop them in any way. Sensors won't either.

Everyone we prevent from crossing becomes one less person we have to deal with now.

We could shut the border down. That would stop them. We could send our military into Mexico. That would work. We could mine the border. That would work.

The Democrats want to do the things that won't stop anyone. The wall will.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 04:26 PM
Fence money?; pocket change...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-navys-stealth-destroyer-super-140000315.html

MisterVeritis
02-10-2019, 04:40 PM
Well first off, didn't you throw him under the bus when he caved on the shutdown?
In a way. I do not see how caving to Nancy Pelosi helps get funding for the wall. She said open the government with no conditions. The government is opened with no conditions.

If that is throwing him under the bus...



At least I've been consistent. I don't loathe Trump, but he scares me. He's impulsive. He thinks everyone loves and respects him, especially on the world front. He's alienated many long time friends. We'd soon find out if we got our *** in the wringer and needed old friends to give us a helping hand. His circle of buddies wouldn't be on my list. At least they all share a common trait; cutthroat.

I give him credit, where credit is due. He's a tough negotiator, often winning, but embellishes every victory which lends to general impression that he's a liar and his word can't be trusted. My Republican friends sure can't forget the barbecue we celebrated with the infamous line, "You can keep your insurance!" "By God, the President's a liar!" "Hang him!" "No!" "Hang em' both!!!" "Better yet, get a hold of the Ruskies' and see if they can help."

He's smart, but obviously not educated. Somewhere along the line he lost the urge to learn and that's a problem when you're the most powerful ruler on the planet. He goes through people like they're candy. So yea, despite the economy, which doesn't seem to have been a game changer for the average Joe, he scares me. I hope for the country, I'm dead wrong. So that means, I'm pulling for the President.
You give President Trump no credit. You are consistent.

You don't like his style. He has outperformed you in every way. Yet you claim he is not educated.

I wish you could be honest. I believe I aim too high.

MisterVeritis
02-10-2019, 04:43 PM
Well, if you mean by the AMC agreement, then Mexico pays a third, we pick up a third and so do the Canadians. Bet they're thrilled!
You are remarkably limited for a smart man.

We will gain far more than 25 billion in direct and indirect benefits from the wall and trade agreements.

MisterVeritis
02-10-2019, 04:46 PM
Should we ignore everything we know concerning the concept of "diminishing returns"?
Perhaps you favor turning the United States into a second world country. I do not. I do not want to learn Spanish. I do not want to learn Arabic. I do not want to live in a country that taxes me so the Democrats will have a permanent underclass who will vote for Democrats.


This is my country. The federal government exists to defend us from outside attacks. This invasion must be ended. $25 billion is chump change.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 07:32 PM
You are remarkably limited for a smart man.

We will gain far more than 25 billion in direct and indirect benefits from the wall and trade agreements.

That wasn't my point. Well, wait until the dough starts pouring in and take the money then.

MisterVeritis
02-10-2019, 07:38 PM
You are remarkably limited for a smart man.

We will gain far more than 25 billion in direct and indirect benefits from the wall and trade agreements.

That wasn't my point. Well, wait until the dough starts pouring in and take the money then.
In taxes for education and welfare illegals cost us around 100-150 billion a year. My taxes were raised because we are forced to educate the children who are here illegally. Cutting off the flow means less money out of my pocket year after year after year.

If you want them you fucking pay to educate them. And while you are at it move them to your neighborhood and have them attend your fucking schools. Let them use your fucking hospitals.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 07:41 PM
Perhaps you favor turning the United States into a second world country. I do not. I do not want to learn Spanish. I do not want to learn Arabic. I do not want to live in a country that taxes me so the Democrats will have a permanent underclass who will vote for Democrats.


This is my country. The federal government exists to defend us from outside attacks. This invasion must be ended. $25 billion is chump change.

Concur the 25B is chump change.

I'd prefer that everybody owed us dough. The Commander-in-Chief could tweet the Pentagon Chief he didn't want another dime going into the Naval fiasco described in #133. Take all this "extra" dough we'll be saving, add it to all the "extra" dough from the new AMC, not to mention all the "extra" dough we'll be making from the China deal; we'll be floating in cash and have the debt removed in short order.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 07:43 PM
You are remarkably limited for a smart man.

We will gain far more than 25 billion in direct and indirect benefits from the wall and trade agreements.

In taxes for education and welfare illegals cost us around 100-150 billion a year. My taxes were raised because we are forced to educate the children who are here illegally. Cutting off the flow means less money out of my pocket year after year after year.

If you want them you $#@!ing pay to educate them. And while you are at it move them to your neighborhood and have them attend your $#@!ing schools. Let them use your $#@!ing hospitals.

Wait, your "massive" tax cut didn't materialize? I thought you were on top of that game? You talked like you understood. What gives?

MisterVeritis
02-10-2019, 07:49 PM
Concur the 25B is chump change.

I'd prefer that everybody owed us dough. The Commander-in-Chief could tweet the Pentagon Chief he didn't want another dime going into the Naval fiasco described in #133. Take all this "extra" dough we'll be saving, add it to all the "extra" dough from the new AMC, not to mention all the "extra" dough we'll be making from the China deal; we'll be floating in cash and have the debt removed in short order.
I read the article.

I spent 15 years in defense engineering. The rules are staggering. We should start over. The goal should be to deliver war-winning, quality products on time and at budget. The time from contract to delivery should never be measured in decades.

I have an example of a weapon we needed to be delivered early in one of the Gulf Wars. The DoD was able to waive nearly all the rules. The weapon was delivered in less than four months. The normal time for that same weapon was between six and ten years if all the rules were followed.

Clearly, something is wrong.


But that is NOT the topic of THIS discussion.

Docthehun
02-10-2019, 08:04 PM
I read the article.

I spent 15 years in defense engineering. The rules are staggering. We should start over. The goal should be to deliver war-winning, quality products on time and at budget. The time from contract to delivery should never be measured in decades.

I have an example of a weapon we needed to be delivered early in one of the Gulf Wars. The DoD was able to waive nearly all the rules. The weapon was delivered in less than four months. The normal time for that same weapon was between six and ten years if all the rules were followed.

Clearly, something is wrong.


But that is NOT the topic of THIS discussion.

The only thing between Trump and his "wall" is money. This certainly is the topic of this discussion, otherwise, he'd just do it.

Captdon
02-10-2019, 08:10 PM
The only thing between Trump and his "wall" is money. This certainly is the topic of this discussion, otherwise, he'd just do it.

It would be better if the Democrats gave him the money than to have him declare an emergency and take it. Either way, the wall gets built. With an emergency, precedent gets set. The money is not a real issue. Politics is the issue.

Trump cannot give in and he has to know it. Unless he gets what he asked for in the first place he has only one way out.

MisterVeritis
02-10-2019, 10:00 PM
The only thing between Trump and his "wall" is money. This certainly is the topic of this discussion, otherwise, he'd just do it.
Right. Then stick to the topic.

He may still just do it. If he does he will have my vote.

Cletus
02-10-2019, 11:58 PM
Should we ignore everything we know concerning the concept of "diminishing returns"?

That is not the case here.

Hoosier8
02-11-2019, 04:15 AM
Wouldn't this approach be a lot cheaper and make more sense?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-wants-israel-apos-100005531.html

Trump is not calling for a concrete wall in the 5.7 billion proposal but the see through bollard fence in 10 areas requested by Homeland Security and the Border Patrol.

Common
02-11-2019, 05:14 AM
Docthehun what is your thoughts on how to stop illegal immigration and crime at our border, how do you think we can do that without a "Barrier" Maybe I should have asked first if you are for stopping illegal immigration

Common
02-11-2019, 05:18 AM
Heres what I believe is going on, Soros and his group are promoting and funding caravans to go to the border to force their way in while trump is president and the democrat are stalling doing anything allowing as many to get in as possible. Why suddenly now caravans

Theres been some liberals on the forum trying to convince us democrats are for border security.

Sure they are, thats why they have sanctuary cities and sanctuary states and wont even report illegal CRIMINALS when they get out of prison. THey order their police not to cooperate with ice. Thats why democrats running for President want to include illegals in free medicare for all and free college. Kamala Harris emphatically stated that.

Then they tell us they are for border security but not for a wall. Doc with all due respect I call bullshit on all of it.

The Barrier cost is a mere pittance compared to what the illegals that are here are costing us. The cost of incarcerating the ones that have committed crimes would have paid for a barrier the entire length in the last 10 yrs

Peter1469
02-11-2019, 05:20 AM
State of the negotiations. Dems are willing to go up to $2.5B, but are demanding a cap on the number of detention beds in the US.

The detention bed limit shows that the dems want the illegals released in the US. Unacceptable.

Of course I would say fine but $5.9B for the wall and kick all illegals out of the country while they wait for their hearings. And if a judge told me that I could not, I would tell him to enforce it- and kick the illegals out.

alexa
02-11-2019, 09:00 AM
State of the negotiations. Dems are willing to go up to $2.5B, but are demanding a cap on the number of detention beds in the US.

The detention bed limit shows that the dems want the illegals released in the US. Unacceptable.

Of course I would say fine but $5.9B for the wall and kick all illegals out of the country while they wait for their hearings. And if a judge told me that I could not, I would tell him to enforce it- and kick the illegals out.
Your respect for the rule of law comes shining through, as usual.

MisterVeritis
02-11-2019, 10:13 AM
Your respect for the rule of law comes shining through, as usual.
It is time for a constitutional crisis. The courts have no role to play. If they intrude anyway disregard them.

Abby08
02-11-2019, 10:35 AM
What exactly has he compromised on regarding this issue? Far as I can tell, to date he has been uncompromising.

HE'S been uncompromising? Seriously? He agreed to give the Democrats their precious dreamers, in exchange for something he wanted....THEY said no.

THEY, are the ones who are not willing to negotiate/compromise, THEY are the ones who want everything their way, or, no way at all.

It isn't even about the issues, either, no, it's more childish than that, it's all about their hatred for Trump, they can't see past it, it consumes their every waking moment.

It wouldn't matter if Trump gave them everything they're demanding, they'd turn it down, because there'd be no more reason to trash him, which is what they're all about.

ripmeister
02-11-2019, 11:40 AM
HE'S been uncompromising? Seriously? He agreed to give the Democrats their precious dreamers, in exchange for something he wanted....THEY said no.

THEY, are the ones who are not willing to negotiate/compromise, THEY are the ones who want everything their way, or, no way at all.

It isn't even about the issues, either, no, it's more childish than that, it's all about their hatred for Trump, they can't see past it, it consumes their every waking moment.

It wouldn't matter if Trump gave them everything they're demanding, they'd turn it down, because there'd be no more reason to trash him, which is what they're all about.

Two examples. First off, his "deal" regarding the dreamers was a temporary reprieve so he didn't as you say "give" it to them. Secondly, there was deal that looked like a good compromise that Trump nixed at the last minute, throwing Mitch under the bus. He went back to his 5+ billion idea after Coulter etc. criticized him, so yea I'd say he was uncompromising.

MisterVeritis
02-11-2019, 11:46 AM
Two examples. First off, his "deal" regarding the dreamers was a temporary reprieve so he didn't as you say "give" it to them. Secondly, there was deal that looked like a good compromise that Trump nixed at the last minute, throwing Mitch under the bus. He went back to his 5+ billion idea after Coulter etc. criticized him, so yea I'd say he was uncompromising.
If there is no agreement let's shut down the government for good. Put the military on the border. Stop the invasion. Build our wall.

Abby08
02-11-2019, 12:31 PM
Two examples. First off, his "deal" regarding the dreamers was a temporary reprieve so he didn't as you say "give" it to them. Secondly, there was deal that looked like a good compromise that Trump nixed at the last minute, throwing Mitch under the bus. He went back to his 5+ billion idea after Coulter etc. criticized him, so yea I'd say he was uncompromising.

It was always supposed to be, temporary, it was designed that way....by Obama.... Trump was willing to extend it, to eventually give a path to citizenship, sure, it came with compromises, of sorts, on the dreamers part, like, prove you're worthy of being a citizen, nothing too hard, or, unreasonable, just get an education, don't be a criminal, be proud to be here...easy stuff...stuff the Democrats, if they were serious about negotiating, would have jumped at.... after all, they really 'care' about those people now, don't they.

MisterVeritis
02-11-2019, 12:35 PM
It was always supposed to be, temporary, it was designed that way....by Obama.... Trump was willing to extend it, to eventually give a path to citizenship, sure, it came with compromises, of sorts, on the dreamers part, like, prove you're worthy of being a citizen, nothing too hard, or, unreasonable, just get an education, don't be a criminal, be proud to be here...easy stuff...stuff the Democrats, if they were serious about negotiating, would have jumped at.... after all, they really 'care' about those people now, don't they.
While we are waiting let's begin deporting them.

Abby08
02-11-2019, 12:36 PM
Trump is well within his rights, nixing any 'deal' the Democrats propose, which don't meet his criteria.

There's a difference between being flexible and willing to compromise and, being railroaded... Democrats are trying to run roughshod over Trump and, he's having fun with it...he's really not stupid.

Abby08
02-11-2019, 12:40 PM
While we are waiting let's begin deporting them.

I'd love to hear Trump propose this, to the Democrats....." Give me what I want and, the dreamers earn a path to citizenship, or, oppose me and, I'll start working on deportation for them."

They are here illegally, after all.

Peter1469
02-11-2019, 04:32 PM
The Dems are deliberately destroying any bill by trying to slash ICE holding ability.

roadmaster
02-11-2019, 04:48 PM
We have to have a barrier to cut down on human smuggling, sex slaves, those that wish to do us harm, invasion of armies and drugs. I am always a little worried about the term wall because throughout History it's always been communist that put up one and it was used to keep people in so they couldn't escape.

MisterVeritis
02-11-2019, 07:15 PM
I'd love to hear Trump propose this, to the Democrats....." Give me what I want and, the dreamers earn a path to citizenship, or, oppose me and, I'll start working on deportation for them."

They are here illegally, after all.
I would not announce it. I would simply begin rounding them up and deporting them.

MisterVeritis
02-11-2019, 07:17 PM
We have to have a barrier to cut down on human smuggling, sex slaves, those that wish to do us harm, invasion of armies and drugs. I am always a little worried about the term wall because throughout History it's always been communist that put up one and it was used to keep people in so they couldn't escape.
This is an old list cut and pasted from Quora:


Morocco - 2,700 km barrier separating the annexed are of South Sahara from that controlled by the Polisario.
South Africa - a 120 km electrified fence from 1975–2005 on the borders with Mozambique and Zimbabwe. Torn down.
U.S. - a 130 km barrier on the western part of the Mexican border.
Brunei - currently building a wall on its border with Malaysia.
China - built a wall on its border with North Korea.
India - built walls on it borders with Myanmar, Bangladesh and on the Kashmir control line.
Iran - built a 700 km wall on its border with Pakistan.
Pakistan - is building a 1,500 km wall on the Afghanistan border, possibly planning to mine parts of it.
Russia - still maintains an electronic wall/fence on its borders with Norway, Finland, China, Mongolia and North Korea.
Saudi Arabia - building a wall on its border with Yemen. they are also building a 600 km wall and ditch on the border with Iraq.
Thailand - building a wall on its southern border with Malaysia.
Turkey - plans to build a 800 km wall on its border with Syria.
Austria - building a 15 km border barrier on its borer with Slovenia.
Greece - built walls along its border with Turkey and plans to extend it.
Hungary - built 175 km walls on its borders with Serbia and Croatia.

roadmaster
02-11-2019, 08:46 PM
They just arrested Hector Sanchez for kidnapping and harboring illegals for ransom.