The Inconvenient Truth About the Republican Party

[Marcus Aurelius]

I have to confess that I haven't studied the history of the Republican party. (I'm more interested in philosophy than politics.) Are the claims in this video correct? I've always thought of the Democratic party as the one more sympathetic to blacks and women.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OURy5WFp0zk

[Chris]

It's true. Republicans have historically been against racism, Democrats historically racist. Expect Democrats to rewrite history.

[Mister D]

PragerU videos trigger some of our members. Just keep that in mind.

[IMPress Polly]

I have to confess that I haven't studied the history of the Republican party. (I'm more interested in philosophy than politics.) Are the claims in this video correct? I've always thought of the Democratic party as the one more sympathetic to blacks and women.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OURy5WFp0zk

Most of that video's contents are accurate, and that's a matter of historical fact. In fact, we could even extend the analysis into the early 1970s to show that, even that recently, it was still predominantly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972 amidst the second feminist wave of activism.

The difference between then and now is the Reagan Revolution of the 1980s, which was calculated to win over the U.S. South for the Republican Party. It worked. At the expense of the North (especially the Northeast), which resultantly switched to the Democratic Party. During the 1980s, there were mass conversions of elected officials in my state of Vermont from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party and the reverse was true across the Southern states. So in essence today's Democratic Party IS yesteryear's Republican Party and to a substantial degree. I mean in terms of who actually composes it demographically.

The Republican Party began reversing course on a lot of issues in the 1980s. For example, you remember how I just pointed out that it was mostly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972? Well, in their 1980 platform, by contrast, they became the only of the two major parties to officially oppose and condemn the ERA, thus beginning their long term shift in a different direction on these issues, by contrast.

[Mister D]

Most of that video's contents are accurate, and that's a matter of historical fact. In fact, we could even extend the analysis into the early 1970s to show that, even that recently, it was still predominantly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972 amidst the second feminist wave of activism.

The difference between then and now is the Reagan Revolution of the 1980s, which was calculated to win over the U.S. South for the Republican Party. It worked. At the expense of the North (especially the Northeast), which resultantly switched to the Democratic Party. During the 1980s, there were mass conversions of elected officials in my state of Vermont from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party and the reverse was true across the Southern states. So in essence today's Democratic Party IS yesteryear's Republican Party and to a substantial degree. I mean in terms of who actually composes it demographically.

The Republican Party began reversing course on a lot of issues in the 1980s. For example, you remember how I just pointed out that it was mostly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972? Well, in their 1980 platform, by contrast, they became the only of the two major parties to officially oppose and condemn the ERA, thus beginning their long term shift in a different direction on these issues, by contrast.
Reagan won Vermont twice. He also won almost the entire northeast...twice.

[jet57]

It's true. Republicans have historically been against racism, Democrats historically racist. Expect Democrats to rewrite history.

Wrong again booboo. Republicans, created at the time of the buildup to our civil war and while anti slavery, they were and always have been very pro business. Republicans were the party of the north. The Democrats, having surrounded Thomas Jefferson as a leader in 1790-1 began to refer to themselves as "Republicans" later on. The Democratic party came with Andrew Jackson and the "Southern Democrats" formed as a response to the northern oligarchy/ industrialists, of which the original Democrats surround Jefferson were firmly against. The northern Democrats were always for the little guy and were very much anti slavery which split the party in 1860. THOSE descendants of southern Democrats joined the Republican part after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. All you have to do is look at the racist Republican leaders of today.

[Mister D]

Wrong again booboo. Republicans, created at the time of the buildup to our civil war and while anti slavery, they were and always have been very pro business. Republicans were the party of the north. The Democrats, having surrounded Thomas Jefferson as a leader in 1790-1 began to refer to themselves as "Republicans" later on. The Democratic party came with Andrew Jackson and the "Southern Democrats" formed as a response to the northern oligarchy/ industrialists, of which the original Democrats surround Jefferson were firmly against. The northern Democrats were always for the little guy and were very much anti slavery which split the party in 1860. THOSE descendants of southern Democrats joined the Republican part after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. All you have to do is look at the racist Republican leaders of today.
Says Chris is wrong about racism. Starts babbling about business.

[IMPress Polly]

Reagan won Vermont twice. He also won almost the entire northeast...twice.

The conversion of Vermont to a Democratic state took place over the course of the 1980s. Look to the post-Cold-War record: Vermont hasn't voted to elect a Republican president even once since the start of the 1990s.

What I'm trying to get at in essence is that my state hasn't changed so much as the parties have. Vermont was always a civil rights state. The Republican Party just isn't a civil rights party anymore.

I'm not saying that civil rights is always a good lawmaking concept, I'm just saying that that's how it is and has been.

[jet57]

Says Chris is wrong about racism. Starts babbling about business.

Wrong again: I was repeating the factual history of both political parties. If you ever pick up a book and learn something yourself, you'll be qualified enough to engage and compete in learned discussion rather than just make trolling drive by posts.

[Mister D]

The conversion of Vermont to a Democratic state took place over the course of the 1980s. Look to the post-Cold-War record: Vermont hasn't voted to elect a Republican president even once since the start of the 1990s.
Reagan won Vermont and virtually the entire northeast twice. I appreciate the attempt to move away from the false narrative claiming a Republican takeover of the south after the CRA of 1964 (they were still electing Democratic majorities when you were a child) but you and reality still haven't met in person.

[Mister D]

Wrong again: I was repeating the factual history of both political parties. If you ever pick up a book and learn something yourself, you'll be qualified enough to engage and compete in learned discussion rather than just make trolling drive by posts.
You were babbling about being pro-business, booboo. It's irrelevant.

[Mister D]

BTW, Polly, Bush Senior won Vermont too.

[IMPress Polly]

Reagan won Vermont and virtually the entire northeast twice. I appreciate the attempt to move away from the false narrative claiming a Republican takeover of the south after the CRA of 1964 (they were still electing Democratic majorities when you were a child) but you and reality still haven't met in person.

My god, you are arrogant! You really think you understand my state better than I do? Vermont voted for Reagan in the '80s on legacy primarily. Between the Civil War and 1992, Vermont had voted Democratic in only one presidential election: 1964, when the Republican candidate had proposed the use of nuclear weapons. It should be regarded as significant that that more-than-a-century-long tradition abruptly came to an end with the end of the Cold War. That didn't happen out of nowhere. It happened because of the '80s. I'm telling you this as someone who lives here and majors in American history.

My liberal-minded parents used to be Republicans. They became Democrats in the '80s. The fact is that liberal "Rockefeller Republicanism" was the only kind that ever sold here. When that was abolished, people switched parties.

[Mister D]

My god, you are arrogant! You really think you understand my state better than I do? Vermont voted for Reagan in the '80s on legacy primarily. Between the Civil War and 1992, Vermont had voted Democratic in only one presidential election: 1964, when the Republican candidate had proposed the use of nuclear weapons. It should be regarded as significant that that more-than-a-century-long tradition abruptly came to an end with the end of the Cold War. That didn't happen out of nowhere. It happened because of the '80s. I'm telling you this as someone who lives here and majors in American history.
Evidently, you don't know your state better than I do in this respect. If being knowledgeable means being arrogant I plead guilty. Shrug.

Yes, Polly. Vermont voted for Reagan and Bush because "legacy". Gotcha. That's plausible. It's not that they preferred these candidates. It was "legacy".

[IMPress Polly]

BTW, Polly, Bush Senior won Vermont too.

Only in 1988, you'll notice.

1992: Bill Clinton
1996: Bill Clinton
2000: Al Gore
2004: John Kerry
2008: Barack Obama
2012: Barack Obama
2016: Hillary Clinton

You'll observe that the same shift happened across New England broadly at the same time. Same to a lesser extent for the Northeast more broadly.

[Mister D]

Only in 1988, you'll notice.

1992: Bill Clinton
1996: Bill Clinton
2000: Al Gore
2004: John Kerry
2008: Barack Obama
2012: Barack Obama
2016: Hillary Clinton
Bush Senior only ran in 1988 so, well...yeah

[IMPress Polly]

Bush Senior only ran in 1988 so, well...yeah

That's a bald-faced lie! He ran for re-election in 1992 and was defeated! In fact, that is among the most brazen lies I've yet seen anyone post on this message board to date.

[Mister D]

That's a bald-faced lie! He ran for re-election in 1992 and was defeated!
Lie lol

My bad. Got him confused with Dole. In any case, Vermont obviously didn't change in the 1980s. It voted Republican in every Presidential election.

[IMPress Polly]

Lie lol

My bad. Got him confused with Dole. In any case, Vermont obviously didn't change in the 1980s. It voted Republican in every Presidential election.

It changed beginning at the local level of the course of the 1980s. Look to our local elections and you'll see a gradual shift in the partisan composition of city councils and so forth over the '80s until finally in 1991 the state elected a Democratic governor (Howard Dean) and then voted to elect Bill Clinton president the next year and never turned back. There was a gradual build-up to those developments and it was called the '80s. It was gradual because there was a long-standing partisan legacy to the state.

[Mister D]

It changed beginning at the local level of the course of the 1980s. Look to our local elections and you'll see a gradual shift in the partisan composition of city councils and so forth over the '80s until finally in 1991 the state elected a Democratic governor (Howard Dean) and then voted to elect Bill Clinton president the next year and never turned back. There was a gradual build-up to those developments and it was called the '80s. It was gradual because there was a long-standing partisan legacy to the state.

Polly, whatever happened in Vermont had nothing to do with Vermonters suddenly discovering they didn't like the guy they voted into office twice. Demographic changes? Generational? People moving to your very...VERY small state? Your theory was a nice attempt to find a better narrative but it doesn't float.

[MisterVeritis]

The conversion of Vermont to a Democratic state took place over the course of the 1980s. Look to the post-Cold-War record: Vermont hasn't voted to elect a Republican president even once since the start of the 1990s.

What I'm trying to get at in essence is that my state hasn't changed so much as the parties have. Vermont was always a civil rights state. The Republican Party just isn't a civil rights party anymore.

I'm not saying that civil rights is always a good lawmaking concept, I'm just saying that that's how it is and has been.
Should the federal government concern itself with so-called civil rights? Is there an article in the Constitution that establishes civil rights? Have civil rights become nothing more than a code word for disparate rights based on group identity?

You say Vermont was always a civil rights state. That must give you some insight into what a civil right is. Can you explain civil rights to me? I do not understand them. Are there some foundational or seminal philosophical works the Framers used to identify some rights as civil while other rights are simply rights?

[Safety]

The problem is when people focus on the party instead of the ideology. The conservative ideology is the one rife with racism or hell bent on giving shade to racists.

[Mister D]

It changed beginning at the local level of the course of the 1980s. Look to our local elections and you'll see a gradual shift in the partisan composition of city councils and so forth over the '80s until finally in 1991 the state elected a Democratic governor (Howard Dean) and then voted to elect Bill Clinton president the next year and never turned back. There was a gradual build-up to those developments and it was called the '80s. It was gradual because there was a long-standing partisan legacy to the state.

Again, I really do appreciate you flying the progressive coop here. The official narrative of southerners abandoning the Democrats after the 1964 CRA collapses once you look at Congressional elections for the next 30(!) years. You really do need a new one.

[MisterVeritis]

The problem is when people focus on the party instead of the ideology. The conservative ideology is the one rife with racism or hell bent on giving shade to racists.
You err. It is systemic.

[Safety]

You err. It is systemic.

I wish you were smarter.

[stjames1_53]

I have to confess that I haven't studied the history of the Republican party. (I'm more interested in philosophy than politics.) Are the claims in this video correct? I've always thought of the Democratic party as the one more sympathetic to blacks and women.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OURy5WFp0zk

Politics IS a philosophy. It is usually comprised of three camps. 1/3 is "conservative" IMO, a bit more frugal with money. Now, that is not always the ruled of thumb, but some are still a product of their environment. Religion, social class. etc. Most of us were working at 14 or 15 serious summer work, but serious money was to be had. I also learned to be frugal with money. How much does it cost, and how are you going to pay for it. Two very distinct sentences, and neither is a question. That is a reality. Unchanging and emotionless. It only consumes.
So, economically I'm one to ask the two "How's" .... Then I looked Cortez's half-baked scheme. Replace houses and business buildings, all road work to be replaced because of all the digging up they'll have to do to revamp a system they've just revamped.
That's the pipe dream, the reality is the "Making repairs to minorities and the oppressed" clause of her bill. How much does it cost, and how will they pay for it.

[Tahuyaman]

Most of that video's contents are accurate, and that's a matter of historical fact. In fact, we could even extend the analysis into the early 1970s to show that, even that recently, it was still predominantly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972 amidst the second feminist wave of activism.

The difference between then and now is the Reagan Revolution of the 1980s, which was calculated to win over the U.S. South for the Republican Party. It worked. At the expense of the North (especially the Northeast), which resultantly switched to the Democratic Party. During the 1980s, there were mass conversions of elected officials in my state of Vermont from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party and the reverse was true across the Southern states. So in essence today's Democratic Party IS yesteryear's Republican Party and to a substantial degree. I mean in terms of who actually composes it demographically.

The Republican Party began reversing course on a lot of issues in the 1980s. For example, you remember how I just pointed out that it was mostly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972? Well, in their 1980 platform, by contrast, they became the only of the two major parties to officially oppose and condemn the ERA, thus beginning their long term shift in a different direction on these issues, by contrast.

The Equal Rights Amendment was redundant and unnecessary. Your comment looks to be a mish-mash of random words.

Where Republicans went wrong was when they abandoned conservatives by trying to be everything to everyone. They tried to out-Democrat the Democrats.

[MisterVeritis]

I wish you were smarter.
You have your wish. I *am* smarter. I always have been. Relative to you I always will be.

[Chris]

Most of that video's contents are accurate, and that's a matter of historical fact. In fact, we could even extend the analysis into the early 1970s to show that, even that recently, it was still predominantly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972 amidst the second feminist wave of activism.

The difference between then and now is the Reagan Revolution of the 1980s, which was calculated to win over the U.S. South for the Republican Party. It worked. At the expense of the North (especially the Northeast), which resultantly switched to the Democratic Party. During the 1980s, there were mass conversions of elected officials in my state of Vermont from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party and the reverse was true across the Southern states. So in essence today's Democratic Party IS yesteryear's Republican Party and to a substantial degree. I mean in terms of who actually composes it demographically.

The Republican Party began reversing course on a lot of issues in the 1980s. For example, you remember how I just pointed out that it was mostly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972? Well, in their 1980 platform, by contrast, they became the only of the two major parties to officially oppose and condemn the ERA, thus beginning their long term shift in a different direction on these issues, by contrast.


The problem with that narrative, besides what D already pointed out, is Southern Democrats were replaced by young Republicans who fully accepted civil rights.

They also supported the ERA till the 1980s and then it was not about race but oppsition to the feminist movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment: "At the 1980 Republican National Convention, the Republican Party platform was amended to end its support for the ERA.[95] The most prominent opponent of the ERA was Schlafly. Leading the Stop ERA campaign, Schlafly defended traditional gender roles and would often attempt to incite feminists by opening her speeches with lines such as, "I'd like to thank my husband for letting me be here tonight – I always like to say that, because it makes the libs so mad.""

There was no reversal.

Your narrative requires postmodern intersectionalty identity politics.

[Chris]

Wrong again booboo. Republicans, created at the time of the buildup to our civil war and while anti slavery, they were and always have been very pro business. Republicans were the party of the north. The Democrats, having surrounded Thomas Jefferson as a leader in 1790-1 began to refer to themselves as "Republicans" later on. The Democratic party came with Andrew Jackson and the "Southern Democrats" formed as a response to the northern oligarchy/ industrialists, of which the original Democrats surround Jefferson were firmly against. The northern Democrats were always for the little guy and were very much anti slavery which split the party in 1860. THOSE descendants of southern Democrats joined the Republican part after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. All you have to do is look at the racist Republican leaders of today.


And none of that narrative has anything to do with racism. Did you forget to address the topic and my post.

Also, up until the Progressive Era, Republicans were for big government and the little guy and the Democrats for free markets. You didn't even get that right.

[Chris]

The conversion of Vermont to a Democratic state took place over the course of the 1980s. Look to the post-Cold-War record: Vermont hasn't voted to elect a Republican president even once since the start of the 1990s.

What I'm trying to get at in essence is that my state hasn't changed so much as the parties have. Vermont was always a civil rights state. The Republican Party just isn't a civil rights party anymore.

I'm not saying that civil rights is always a good lawmaking concept, I'm just saying that that's how it is and has been.


However, your narrative did leave out Reagan winning Vermont at the time you said there was a reversal.

[Chris]

Only in 1988, you'll notice.

1992: Bill Clinton
1996: Bill Clinton
2000: Al Gore
2004: John Kerry
2008: Barack Obama
2012: Barack Obama
2016: Hillary Clinton

You'll observe that the same shift happened across New England broadly at the same time. Same to a lesser extent for the Northeast more broadly.


So the shift in Vermont didn't take place until the 90s. That puts yet another hole in your 80 reversal narrative.

[Chris]

It changed beginning at the local level of the course of the 1980s. Look to our local elections and you'll see a gradual shift in the partisan composition of city councils and so forth over the '80s until finally in 1991 the state elected a Democratic governor (Howard Dean) and then voted to elect Bill Clinton president the next year and never turned back. There was a gradual build-up to those developments and it was called the '80s. It was gradual because there was a long-standing partisan legacy to the state.


And this has what to do with the historical racism of Democrats?

[Chris]

The problem is when people focus on the party instead of the ideology. The conservative ideology is the one rife with racism or hell bent on giving shade to racists.


This is the false narrative I was expecting from the beginning of this thread. False? Yes, the modern conservative movement, Buckley, Kirk, etc, didn't start until the 1950s. Democrats were racists from the time of slavery. Remarkable how they adopted an ideology from the future!

[Mister D]

So the shift in Vermont didn't take place until the 90s. That puts yet another hole in your 80 reversal narrative.

Why the shift happened is an interesting question but I suspect the generation that voted for Reagan was simply replaced. Whether this was by their kids or transplants or both is immaterial.

[jet57]

And none of that narrative has anything to do with racism. Did you forget to address the topic and my post.

Also, up until the Progressive Era, Republicans were for big government and the little guy and the Democrats for free markets. You didn't even get that right.

It has everything to do with racism, you just have to learn to read.

[Chris]

It has everything to do with racism, you just have to learn to read.

Your historical facts are wrong, how could it have anything to do with anything?

[Chris]

Why the shift happened is an interesting question but I suspect the generation that voted for Reagan was simply replaced. Whether this was by their kids or transplants or both is immaterial.


Looked into it a bit and it seems Vermont had an influx of liberals from New York, Massachusetts, etc., at the time into the countryside, while the cities remain Republican strongholds. Also interesting, conservatives and libertarian flocked to "Live Free or Die" New Hampshire at about the same time.

[jet57]

Your historical facts are wrong, how could it have anything to do with anything?
(chuckle)

Wrong... name them.

[Chris]

(chuckle)

Wrong... name them.


Already did. You quoted it. And, no, I'm not going to waste my time playing cat and mouse with you.

[Captdon]

Most of that video's contents are accurate, and that's a matter of historical fact. In fact, we could even extend the analysis into the early 1970s to show that, even that recently, it was still predominantly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972 amidst the second feminist wave of activism.

The difference between then and now is the Reagan Revolution of the 1980s, which was calculated to win over the U.S. South for the Republican Party. It worked. At the expense of the North (especially the Northeast), which resultantly switched to the Democratic Party. During the 1980s, there were mass conversions of elected officials in my state of Vermont from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party and the reverse was true across the Southern states. So in essence today's Democratic Party IS yesteryear's Republican Party and to a substantial degree. I mean in terms of who actually composes it demographically.

The Republican Party began reversing course on a lot of issues in the 1980s. For example, you remember how I just pointed out that it was mostly Republicans who voted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment in 1972? Well, in their 1980 platform, by contrast, they became the only of the two major parties to officially oppose and condemn the ERA, thus beginning their long term shift in a different direction on these issues, by contrast.

You're mixing up the "Southern Strategy" of Nixon with anything Reagan did. Reagan won 49 states. The both sides, Polly.

The ERA was unnecessary and redundant. It should have failed.

Polly, you can't make up your own history. You look foolish.

[Captdon]

Wrong again booboo. Republicans, created at the time of the buildup to our civil war and while anti slavery, they were and always have been very pro business. Republicans were the party of the north. The Democrats, having surrounded Thomas Jefferson as a leader in 1790-1 began to refer to themselves as "Republicans" later on. The Democratic party came with Andrew Jackson and the "Southern Democrats" formed as a response to the northern oligarchy/ industrialists, of which the original Democrats surround Jefferson were firmly against. The northern Democrats were always for the little guy and were very much anti slavery which split the party in 1860. THOSE descendants of southern Democrats joined the Republican part after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. All you have to do is look at the racist Republican leaders of today.

Still can't read, I see.

[Captdon]

Wrong again: I was repeating the factual history of both political parties. If you ever pick up a book and learn something yourself, you'll be qualified enough to engage and compete in learned discussion rather than just make trolling drive by posts.

The republican party was the party of civil rights and pro-business. The Democrats were the party of Jim Crow. Try reading something besides Marmaduke.

[Captdon]

My god, you are arrogant! You really think you understand my state better than I do? Vermont voted for Reagan in the '80s on legacy primarily. Between the Civil War and 1992, Vermont had voted Democratic in only one presidential election: 1964, when the Republican candidate had proposed the use of nuclear weapons. It should be regarded as significant that that more-than-a-century-long tradition abruptly came to an end with the end of the Cold War. That didn't happen out of nowhere. It happened because of the '80s. I'm telling you this as someone who lives here and majors in American history.

My liberal-minded parents used to be Republicans. They became Democrats in the '80s. The fact is that liberal "Rockefeller Republicanism" was the only kind that ever sold here. When that was abolished, people switched parties.

You major in America History? I don't believe that unless you're still trying to make it past your freshman year. You know as much about American History as my oldest great- grandchild.

[Captdon]

The problem is when people focus on the party instead of the ideology. The conservative ideology is the one rife with racism or hell bent on giving shade to racists.

The Democratic Party went to war for slavery. They fought against civil rights and installed Jim Crow. They didn't even vote to abolish slavery. You should be able to do better.

[Jeb!]

Before 2000, the only Republican states in the south were Virginia and Texas (the two wealthiest states in the south). Republicans could only win southern states by running up margins in suburbs (where a lot of transplants live).

[jet57]

Already did. You quoted it. And, no, I'm not going to waste my time playing cat and mouse with you.
You can never prove anything you say Chris. You're a waste of valuable time.

[nathanbforrest45]

Before 2000, the only Republican states in the south were Virginia and Texas (the two wealthiest states in the south). Republicans could only win southern states by running up margins in suburbs (where a lot of transplants live).


Actually what changed a lot of voters to voting Republican was Ronald Reagan. I was a Democrat before than because that was the only way I had a choice in the primary. However, in the General I always voted for the Republican since Barry Goldwater ran.

[Jeb!]

Actually what changed a lot of voters to voting Republican was Ronald Reagan. I was a Democrat before than because that was the only way I had a choice in the primary. However, in the General I always voted for the Republican since Barry Goldwater ran.
Two things about that though:

1. In 1980, the south was Reagan's weakest region. He barely won MS, AL, TN, ect.

2. In 1984, even as Reagan destroyed Mondale in the south, Democrats still had the upper hand in the Congressional races. So neither Nixon, Reagan, nor the 1964 CRA really made the south permanently Republican. It happened gradually.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/1984_House_Elections_in_the_United_States.png