There is no future in progressivism

[Morningstar]

It makes no difference what the voting trends are, or the demographics, etc.

Liberal policies are guaranteed to fail. The only question becomes, how bad will the collapse be?

It's not a matter of outcome, it's a matter of degree.

[Mister D]

Sadly, most of the idealists here don't understand that.

[countryboy]

Sadly, most of the idealists here don't understand that.
But their leaders do. :wink:

[GrassrootsConservative]

Indeed. It looks good on paper and for patting yourself on the back for your good intentions, but realistically they are doomed to fail. Russia tried it awhile back, we all saw what happened there.

[Chloe]

The problem is that when you automatically assume something is going to fail then it typically has no chance of succeeding

[Morningstar]

The problem is that when you automatically assume something is going to fail then it typically has no chance of succeeding


Assuming that a bullet won't penetrate your vital organs does not change the ballistics whatsoever.

[Devil's Advocate]

Sadly, most of the idealists here don't understand that.

That's because conservatism rejects idealism.

If you're an idealist, conservatives expect you to endure duress, intimidation, harassment, provocation, and negligence during your childhood. They advocate professional, workaholic, rugged individualism where nerds are despised and forced to assume the risk of falling through the cracks. If nerds don't work hard, they're bullied and called unappreciative.

Liberal retaliation is basically revenge of the nerds.

[Chris]

The problem is that when you automatically assume something is going to fail then it typically has no chance of succeeding

In this case, however, it is a rational assumption. Progressivism has as its goal perfecting man. In order to even begin to do that they would have to start with who man is, biologically, socially, culturally. They do not, they simply leap to what they want man to be and then demand laws be written and government enforce those laws to reinvent and re-engineer man. But you cannot simply write words on paper to change anything. It has never worked. If you read history you will see man has not changed over time. There is no such thing as progress.

[Mainecoons]

The problem is that when you automatically assume something is going to fail then it typically has no chance of succeeding

Those who ignore history are condemned to constantly repeating it.

How much failure does it take to convince you that some ideas are just not workable?

[Cigar]

This is a key moment in Conservative / Republican History ...

They will need to determine if they are going to believe their lying eyes or if what they are hearing are echoes from the past or a train at the end of the tunnel.

Either way ... no one ever won a game of my way or not way.

[Chris]

This is a key moment in Conservative / Republican History ...

They will need to determine if they are going to believe their lying eyes or if what they are hearing are echoes from the past or a train at the end of the tunnel.

Either way ... no one ever won a game of my way or not way.

Could you be more specific. I do agree nothing can be my way or the highway.

[GrumpyDog]

All Americans are really Liberals. The conservatives are really just Classical Liberals, following the Father of Liberalism, John Locke. Then there are varying degrees of Liberalism ranging from Voltaire, (government necessary) to the anarchist ideology, basically Rousseau (no government necessary).

Then there is the Progressive movement, which is something unto itself really, which I am not sure what it really means anymore, given the agenda of the current El Presidente. Maybe it is Communism, or Socialism, or something of both, or maybe it is just a wholesale fraud to further certain elites interests., or possibly even secret society like the Bilderbergers.

Whatever it is, it certainly has not been very responsive to the suggestions about using advanced technology, to make USA energy independent, and improve living conditions. Rather, it has become a political weapon to keep the Crony Congress entitlement spending pig well fed.

[Cigar]

Could you be more specific. I do agree nothing can be my way or the highway.

Right now republicans are still in denial ... they refuse to hear any complaints.

Real people "hear" the things that republicans say, but more importantly they remember what they do.

No different that some of the generalization comments expressed on this forum, there are a lot of politicians who say the exact same things some pope here say. The only difference, no one needs votes on this forum.

The problem for republicans, voters have long memories and vote against individuals who publicly insult them.

Example:
Just because I'm Black, why is it assumed that I know anything about welfare or so called Community Issues?
Just because I live in Illinois, why is it assumed I have any influence of anything that goes on in a City 60 males away from me?

Please see how republicans act, then they vote according.

Speaking as one individual ... not as a group of people.

[Chris]

All Americans are really Liberals. The conservatives are really just Classical Liberals, following the Father of Liberalism, John Locke. Then there are varying degrees of Liberalism ranging from Voltaire, (government necessary) to the anarchist ideology, basically Rousseau (no government necessary).

Then there is the Progressive movement, which is something unto itself really, which I am not sure what it really means anymore, given the agenda of the current El Presidente. Maybe it is Communism, or Socialism, or something of both, or maybe it is just a wholesale fraud to further certain elites interests., or possibly even secret society like the Bilderbergers.

Whatever it is, it certainly has not been very responsive to the suggestions about using advanced technology, to make USA energy independent, and improve living conditions. Rather, it has become a political weapon to keep the Crony Congress entitlement spending pig well fed.

But there's a difference, major difference between classical and modern liberals. That is this: Classical liberals take equality to mean not that all men are equal, we're all different, but all deserve equal treatment before the law. Modern liberals seeks to make everyone equal by treating people unequally before the law. The Constitution says, classically, government is empowered to "promote the general Welfare" but government, modernly, bipartisanly, uses its power to promote special welfare, be it social or corporate welfare.

[Mister D]

Example:
Just because I'm Black, why is it assumed that I know anything about welfare or so called Community Issues?
Just because I live in Illinois, why is it assumed I have any influence of anything that goes on in a City 60 males away from me?

Please see how republicans act, then they vote according.

Who says you should know anything about welfare just because you're black? Be specific.

It's been explained to you multiple times why Chicago should be of interest to you. It's not because you are a hack who exploits tragedies selectively.

[Carygrant]

What a bunch a big girl blouses .
Proposition : We love Sugar and cream jelly. But we hate dwarves with red hair . Discuss fucking horrible Dwarves with red hair ..


Come on girls . By all means dream privately but remember one man's dream can be the wise person's nightmare . You are sinking close to rock bottom here . But you don't need to touch your own bottom to erupt with a huge fart .

[Chris]

Right now republicans are still in denial ... they refuse to hear any complaints.

Real people "hear" the things that republicans say, but more importantly they remember what they do.

No different that some of the generalization comments expressed on this forum, there are a lot of politicians who say the exact same things some pope here say. The only difference, no one needs votes on this forum.

The problem for republicans, voters have long memories and vote against individuals who publicly insult them.

Example:
Just because I'm Black, why is it assumed that I know anything about welfare or so called Community Issues?
Just because I live in Illinois, why is it assumed I have any influence of anything that goes on in a City 60 males away from me?

Please see how republicans act, then they vote according.

Speaking as one individual ... not as a group of people.


OK, that's true. People will vote according to what Republicans--and Democrats--say and do, well, more by what they day for what they say and do, rhetoric and record, rarely coincide. Both sides say they abhor crony capitalism but both sides engage in it.

I don't think all Reps are in denial, consider Bobby Jindal's (Almost) Radical GOP Reformism (http://reason.com/blog/2013/01/25/louisiana-governor-bobby-jindal-to-rnc-b). Nor do I think al Dems are in denial--surely some recognize the direction liberals are taking this country is unsustainable. The goals may have the best of intention, but the means will fail.

Those assumptions are based on fallacies of overgeneralization. We see that hear all the time.


One thing to consider though, success of a people doesn't depend so much on how they may vote things to go, especially when politicians don't follow promises. in general, I'd argue, the success of a people doesn't depend much at all on how they want things to go. It depends more on who they are as a people, their social institutions, traditions, mores, etc. A lot of this is just noise from what's called the chattering classes.

[Chris]

Right now republicans are still in denial ... they refuse to hear any complaints.

Real people "hear" the things that republicans say, but more importantly they remember what they do.

No different that some of the generalization comments expressed on this forum, there are a lot of politicians who say the exact same things some pope here say. The only difference, no one needs votes on this forum.

The problem for republicans, voters have long memories and vote against individuals who publicly insult them.

Example:
Just because I'm Black, why is it assumed that I know anything about welfare or so called Community Issues?
Just because I live in Illinois, why is it assumed I have any influence of anything that goes on in a City 60 males away from me?

Please see how republicans act, then they vote according.

Speaking as one individual ... not as a group of people.


OK, that's true. People will vote according to what Republicans--and Democrats--say and do, well, more by what they day for what they say and do, rhetoric and record, rarely coincide. Both sides say they abhor crony capitalism but both sides engage in it.

I don't think all Reps are in denial, consider Bobby Jindal's (Almost) Radical GOP Reformism (http://reason.com/blog/2013/01/25/louisiana-governor-bobby-jindal-to-rnc-b). Nor do I think al Dems are in denial--surely some recognize the direction liberals are taking this country is unsustainable. The goals may have the best of intention, but the means will fail.

Those assumptions are based on fallacies of overgeneralization. We see that hear all the time.


One thing to consider though, success of a people doesn't depend so much on how they may vote things to go, especially when politicians don't follow promises. in general, I'd argue, the success of a people doesn't depend much at all on how they want things to go. It depends more on who they are as a people, their social institutions, traditions, mores, etc. A lot of this is just noise from what's called the chattering classes.

[Cigar]

Who says you should know anything about welfare just because you're black? Be specific.

It's been explained to you multiple times why Chicago should be of interest to you. It's not because you are a hack who exploits tragedies selectively.

Look bottom line ... it's not my problem if Republicans freely chose to never ever change their way of thinking.

Really, it's fine with me, but I don't care to hear about why they can't expand their base when their elephant ears are plugged.

Additionally, I personally have zero influence on what goes on in any city other than the one I personally live in.

As far as exploitation; whenever a child gets shot up with so many holes, their body is unrecognizable by their parents ... that's NEWS. That NEVER happens in Chicago as far as I known.

[Mister D]

Look bottom line ... it's not my problem if Republicans freely chose to never ever change their way of thinking.

Really, it's fine with me, but I don't care to hear about why they can't expand their base when their elephant ears are plugged.

Additionally, I personally have zero influence on what goes on in any city other than the one I personally live in.

As far as exploitation; whenever a child gets shot up with so many holes, their body is unrecognizable by their parents ... that's NEWS. That NEVER happens in Chicago as far as I known.

So no one suggested anything like what you described about welfare. Understood. Next question: why do you feel compelled to make things up?

Again, it looks ridiculous when someone who claims to be outraged by gun violence completely ignores a veritable bloodbath in a nearby metro area. It reflects rather poorly on you.

[Cigar]

So no one said suggested anything like what you described about welfare. Understood. Next question: why do you feel compelled to make things up?

Again, it looks ridiculous when someone who claims to be outraged by gun violence completely ignores a veritable bloodbath in a nearby metro area. It reflects rather poorly on you.

I also know nothing about Affirmative Action or being a Affirmative Action Boy, considering I took a test and passed it to get into college ... just like everyone else.

Or am I making that up also?

I am outraged at children getting blown to bits ... yes ... each and every time ... don't you?.

Do I get outraged every time someone in Chicago gets shot .. no. Do you?

[Mister D]

I also know nothing about Affirmative Action or being a Affirmative Action Boy, considering I took a test and passed it to get into college ... just like everyone else.

Or am I making that up also?

I am outraged at children getting blown to bits ... yes ... each and every time ... don't you?.

Do I get outraged every time someone in Chicago gets shot .. no. Do you?

Standards are routinely lowered for blacks and Hispanics. That's a fact. How do you know you've never benefited from affirmative action? It's quite likely that you have especially in school.

You don't get outraged over the bloodbath in Chicago or over the plague of violence in communities of color. First of all, it must be embarrassing. Secondly, once you acknolwedge that the vast majority of gun violence occurs
in said communities one must confess that there simply is no gun problem in the US.

[Chris]

What a bunch a big girl blouses .
Proposition : We love Sugar and cream jelly. But we hate dwarves with red hair . Discuss fucking horrible Dwarves with red hair ..


Come on girls . By all means dream privately but remember one man's dream can be the wise person's nightmare . You are sinking close to rock bottom here . But you don't need to touch your own bottom to erupt with a huge fart .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbmFTK4t3JU

:thinking:

[Cigar]

Standards are routinely lowered for blacks and Hispanics. That's a fact. How do you know you've never benefited from affirmative action? It's quite likely that you have especially in school.

You don't get outraged over the bloodbath in Chicago or over the plague of violence in communities of color. First of all, it must be embarrassing. Secondly, once you acknolwedge that the vast majority of gun violence occurs
in said communities one must confess that there simply is no gun problem in the US.

Well if someone gave me preferable treatment without ever letting me know ... all I can say is, thank you. But if anyone ever told me I didn't earn everything I have, I'd have to say prove it; because I still have the grade to prove my side, and if they can't, then I'll file it were it belongs.

As far as your fixation on what is going on in another city, all I can say is, it's your problem and not mine. You appear to be more concerned with my feelings about the City of Chicago than I do. I've lived in Illinois for 50 years, so I don't get emotional over anything that goes on in Chicago. I don't even care that 4 of it's Governors when to jail. That's their problem, not mine.

Embarrassed ... why. I'm not emotionally involved. If it was happening in the town I live in, then I'd be emotionally involved. But to worry about something I have zero control over is stupid.

I'm Catholic ... am I personally embarrassed that Priest in The Catholic Church was caught screwing little boys .... no.

[Mister D]

Well if someone gave me preferable treatment without ever letting me know ... all I can say is, thank you. But if anyone ever told me I didn't earn everything I have, I'd have to say prove it; because I still have the grade to prove my side, and if they can't, then I'll file it were it belongs.


Cigar, you do realize it's commonplace, right? It's not at all unreasonable to suggest you may have benefited from it. It's interesting that you offended by the suggestion that you might have benefited from it. If such suggestions offend you so much one would expect to find you among those who oppose affirmative action.


As far as your fixation on what is going on in another city, all I can say is, it's your problem and not mine. You appear to be more concerned with my feelings about the City of Chicago than I do. I've lived in Illinois for 50 years, so I don't get emotional over anything that goes on in Chicago. I don't even care that 4 of it's Governors when to jail. That's their problem, not mine.


My fixation? How many threads have you strarted about gun violence over the last 6 weeks? Really?


Embarrassed ... why. I'm not emotionally involved. If it was happening in the town I live in, then I'd be emotionally involved. But to worry about something I have zero control over is stupid.

You pretend gun violence is rampant all over the country yet that's simply not true. It occurs overwhelmingly in certain areas and among certain people. Secondly, you have zero control over gun laws or what happened in Newtown yet you can't stop exploiting it. If you don't worry about things you have no control over then stop talking about almost everything you talk about here.


I'm Catholic ... am I personally embarrassed that Priest in The Catholic Church was caught screwing little boys .... no.


Why would you be? You aren't on this forum every day focusing on child molestation everywhere but in the RCC.

[Pete7469]

Those who ignore history are condemned to constantly repeating it.

How much failure does it take to convince you that some ideas are just not workable?

Doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result is often a symptom of insanity. Hence the term "batshit crazy liberal" used on people like Margot Kidder.

[Cigar]

Cigar, you do realize it's commonplace, right? It's not at all unreasonable to suggest you may have benefited from it. It's interesting that you offended by the suggestion that you might have. if such suggestions offend you so much one would expect to find you among those who oppose affirmative action.



My fixation? How many threads have you started about gun violence over the last 6 weeks? Really?



You pretend gun violence is rampant all over the country yet that's simply not true. It occurs overwhelmingly in certain areas and among certain people. Secondly, you have zero control over gun laws or what happened in Newtown yet you can't stop exploiting it. If you don't worry about things you have no control over then stop talking about almost everything you talk about here.



Why would you be? You aren't on this forum every day focusing on child molestation everywhere but in the RCC.


You do realize it was commonplace for more than 4 Centuries, if your were White, you got preferential treatment.

If you're looking for me to start shedding tears ... check back latter ... say around 400 years.

So if I got preferential treatment, good ... I deserved it.

Next

[Mister D]

You do realize it was commonplace for more than 4 Centuries, if your were White, you got preferential treatment.

So?


If you're looking for me to start shedding tears ... check back latter ... say around 400 years.

I'm not. I oppose unfair treatment for whites.


So if I got preferential treatment, good ... I deserved it.

Next
[/QUOTE]

But yet you bristle when I call you affrimative action boy. Why? You seem to think you should have received the benefits of affirmative action (it's likely that you did) so why the anger when it's pointed out?

[Cigar]

So?



I'm not. I oppose unfair treatment for whites.



Next


But yet you bristle when I call you affrimative action boy. Why? You seem to think you should have received the benefits of affirmative action (it's likely that you did) so why the anger when it's pointed out?[/QUOTE]

I don't get angry over anything on the internet ... because it's just the internet.

... and there's free Cookies and Milk ... all the better.

Because if you're giving something away ... don't expect anything in return but a thank you.

[Mister D]

I've touched on this before but the ambivalence some non-whites have regarding affirmative action is interesting. On the one hand, they implicitly validate the criticism of affirmative action and the suspicions of those that do not benefit from these race based preferences. On the other hand, they insist they should have these benefits.

[Mister D]

But yet you bristle when I call you affrimative action boy. Why? You seem to think you should have received the benefits of affirmative action (it's likely that you did) so why the anger when it's pointed out?

I don't get angry over anything on the internet ... because it's just the internet.

... and there's free Cookies and Milk ... all the better.

Because if you're giving something away ... don't expect anything in return but a thank you.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not gving anything away.

[Alif Qadr]

It makes no difference what the voting trends are, or the demographics, etc.

Liberal policies are guaranteed to fail. The only question becomes, how bad will the collapse be?

It's not a matter of outcome, it's a matter of degree.
I am frightened to even fathom such a collapse. When it does come, it will not be pretty at all.

[Alif Qadr]

But their leaders do. :wink:

BINGO! The gullibility of their supporters is well understood.

[Cigar]

But their leaders do. :wink:

Care to share who was anointed my leader ...

The last check ... I was henpeck by my wife ... and I'm ok with it ... she cooks for me. :)

[Cigar]

BINGO! The gullibility of their supporters is well understood.

Rush, Sean ... Glen ... is that you?

[Pete7469]

BINGO! The gullibility of their supporters is well understood. And the idiocy of their zealots are illustrated further by whatever the idiot poster above just said.

[zelmo1234]

Right now republicans are still in denial ... they refuse to hear any complaints.

Real people "hear" the things that republicans say, but more importantly they remember what they do.

No different that some of the generalization comments expressed on this forum, there are a lot of politicians who say the exact same things some pope here say. The only difference, no one needs votes on this forum.

The problem for republicans, voters have long memories and vote against individuals who publicly insult them.

Example:
Just because I'm Black, why is it assumed that I know anything about welfare or so called Community Issues?
Just because I live in Illinois, why is it assumed I have any influence of anything that goes on in a City 60 males away from me?

Please see how republicans act, then they vote according.

Speaking as one individual ... not as a group of people.


Same reason that it is assumed that because I vote republican, I an racist, because I carry a gun I am a mad man, and because I am wealthy that I don't pay taxes.

It is because we are a divided country and would rather throw stones at one another

[Cigar]

Same reason that it is assumed that because I vote republican, I an racist, because I carry a gun I am a mad man, and because I am wealthy that I don't pay taxes.

It is because we are a divided country and would rather throw stones at one another

I voted Democrat, I have multiple Weapons, my wife and I own or own business and pay taxes.

So what your point?

[Chris]

What a bunch a big girl blouses .
Proposition : We love Sugar and cream jelly. But we hate dwarves with red hair . Discuss fucking horrible Dwarves with red hair ..


Come on girls . By all means dream privately but remember one man's dream can be the wise person's nightmare . You are sinking close to rock bottom here . But you don't need to touch your own bottom to erupt with a huge fart .

Warning: Carygrant, let's please tone down the insults and focus more on discussion.

[Cigar]

Oh God ... here we go ... again .... :f_doh:

[Chris]

Oh God ... here we go ... again .... :f_doh:

Don't forget rule #8: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/6236-The-Political-Forums-Revised-Rules-and-Regulations :-)

[zelmo1234]

I voted Democrat, I have multiple Weapons, my wife and I own or own business and pay taxes.

So what your point?

The first line you voted democrat, so they do not call you a racist, do they?

But when the republicans wanted to reform fannie and freddie because they saw financial problems they wre racist! and we were told by Franks and Dodd that everything was OK.

My point is it is used as a weapon by the opposition to silence the opposing view point!

And I beleive that Pay taxes part with you living in IL Yuck! I know that with what I pay we could hire 4 more employee's I can not even imagine how bad it is for you!

[Cigar]

The first line you voted democrat, so they do not call you a racist, do they?

But when the republicans wanted to reform fannie and freddie because they saw financial problems they wre racist! and we were told by Franks and Dodd that everything was OK.

My point is it is used as a weapon by the opposition to silence the opposing view point!

And I beleive that Pay taxes part with you living in IL Yuck! I know that with what I pay we could hire 4 more employee's I can not even imagine how bad it is for you!

A) I hear what Conservative say and I see how they categorize entire groups without knowing the individuals. True me, there's countless live examples on YouTube.

B) Secondly ... what people call me has zero affect on why I chose to do with my life. I've been called names all my life, and I expect there will be not change, because some people are afraid of the unknown.

C) Lastly, business has never been better and taxes are not preventing me from doing anything. If your margins are so low that taxes determine if you open your doors or not, may I suggest you rethink your business plan. Maybe you're in the wrong business or maybe the consumer isn't willing to support the product or service for your operating cost.

[Chris]

A) I hear what Conservative say and I see how they categorize entire groups without knowing the individuals. True me, there's countless live examples on YouTube.

B) Secondly ... what people call me has zero affect on why I chose to do with my life. I've been called names all my life, and I expect there will be not change, because some people are afraid of the unknown.

C) Lastly, business has never been better and taxes are not preventing me from doing anything. If your margins are so low that taxes determine if you open your doors or not, may I suggest you rethink your business plan. Maybe you're in the wrong business or maybe the consumer isn't willing to support the product or service for your operating cost.


I hear what Conservative say...

Some, sure, but let's not overgeneralize.

[Cigar]

"Policies are many ... Principles are few ... Polices will change ... Principles never do" :grin:

[Cigar]

Some, sure, but let's not overgeneralize.

Taker, Makers and 47% ... What Party did that come from?

[Chris]

Taker, Makers and 47% ... What Party did that come from?

Reps, Romney IIRC, but not all Reps are Cons, least of all Romney.

[Cigar]

Reps, Romney IIRC, but not all Reps are Cons, least of all Romney.

No No No that don't fly ... we don't have to look fare at all to see this a general Conservative View!

... you need look no further than numerous postings on this Forum.

Come-On ... own it if this going to your guiding principals and your core beliefs ... man up, stand by it and preach it from the highest mountains.

But you can't blame polls, weather events, skewed electoral votes, biased media and urban minorities if you can't win elections.

[Chris]

No No No that don't fly ... we don't have to look fare at all to see this a general Conservative View!

... you need look no further than numerous postings on this Forum.

Come-On ... own it if this going to your guiding principals and your core beliefs ... man up, stand by it and preach it from the highest mountains.

But you can't blame polls, weather events, skewed electoral votes, biased media and urban minorities if you can't win elections.

You're not being very clear what you're saying.

Earlier you said cons lump people. I agree, some do, but disagree all do. You're finding instances of con lumping doesn't allow you to logically conclude all do. Some liberals lump people into classes, such as the poor, the rich, but not all do, some recognize those as statistical groups between which individuals move dynamically.

My core political beliefs are libertarian.

Give us an example of what you're talking about: What lumping?

[zelmo1234]

A) I hear what Conservative say and I see how they categorize entire groups without knowing the individuals. True me, there's countless live examples on YouTube.

B) Secondly ... what people call me has zero affect on why I chose to do with my life. I've been called names all my life, and I expect there will be not change, because some people are afraid of the unknown.

C) Lastly, business has never been better and taxes are not preventing me from doing anything. If your margins are so low that taxes determine if you open your doors or not, may I suggest you rethink your business plan. Maybe you're in the wrong business or maybe the consumer isn't willing to support the product or service for your operating cost.

Yes I think that you ahve mentiond that you are small enough to not be bothered by Obamacare! Unfortunalty we are not.

2nd the reclasification fo rent as capital gains is a real hit. but after the current leases run out, that will switch from our burden to that of those that lease from us!

We are looking at cost cutting I still have 19 more people to lay off before the end of the year to get below that majic number of 50. so that will help too. and of course we will just stop expansion, in the USA, though it looks like we will be working on a very large prodject in Canada!

But all in all we were still able to keep our taxations and regulations costs a little below half a mil, but that is still about a 10% increase in what we were paying. That has to come from somewhere?

[Cigar]

You're not being very clear what you're saying.

Earlier you said cons lump people. I agree, some do, but disagree all do. You're finding instances of con lumping doesn't allow you to logically conclude all do. Some liberals lump people into classes, such as the poor, the rich, but not all do, some recognize those as statistical groups between which individuals move dynamically.

My core political beliefs are libertarian.

Give us an example of what you're talking about: What lumping?

Search any thread from Mister D or his lemmings ... it shouldn't take long at all ... enough said.

Let's get one thing straight ...

There really are Rich and Poor and they really do makeup 2% and 98% and to say this is the truth.

Calling a Group Takers or Makers and 47% don't pay any taxes isn't truthful ... unless you're really expecting the Military, disable and College Kids to pay taxes ... then just say that out in the open so there's no misunderstanding.

This is vastly different and you know it.

[Mister D]

Search any thread from Mister D or his lemmings ... it shouldn't take long at all ... enough said.

Let's get one thing straight ...

There really are Rich and Poor and they really do makeup 2% and 98% and to say this is the truth.

Calling a Group Takers or Makers and 47% don't pay any taxes isn't truthful ... unless you're really expecting the Military, disable and College Kids to pay taxes ... then just say that out in the open so there's no misunderstanding.

This is vastly different and you know it.

Could you provide a post of mine as an example? I'm betting you can't.

[Cigar]

Could you provide a post of mine as an example? I'm betting you can't.



Nope ... I don't work for you ... get one of your lemmings to do it ... that have the time and the motivation.

I know it's true ... you know it's true and everyone on the Forum knows it's true ... so do what you Cons do best ... deny!

[zelmo1234]

Search any thread from Mister D or his lemmings ... it shouldn't take long at all ... enough said.

Let's get one thing straight ...

There really are Rich and Poor and they really do makeup 2% and 98% and to say this is the truth.

Calling a Group Takers or Makers and 47% don't pay any taxes isn't truthful ... unless you're really expecting the Military, disable and College Kids to pay taxes ... then just say that out in the open so there's no misunderstanding.

This is vastly different and you know it.

How about if we were to say that people should start paying something in actual income tax after their first 25K of income

We can argue about how much bet at least something? I know that they pay the 6.5% to FICA but that does not pay for the roads, military, government ect, so after 25K can we agree that everyone should pay something?

[Mister D]

Nope ... I don't work for you ... get one of your lemmings to do it ... that have the time and the motivation.

I know it's true ... you know it's true and everyone on the Forum knows it's true ... so do what you Cons do best ... deny!

I didn't think so. Frankly, I doubt anyone thought you could.

[Cigar]

How about if we were to say that people should start paying something in actual income tax after their first 25K of income

We can argue about how much bet at least something? I know that they pay the 6.5% to FICA but that does not pay for the roads, military, government ect, so after 25K can we agree that everyone should pay something?

... sure and why cap SS at 118k or is it 1128k ... not sure, somewhere around that.

[zelmo1234]

... sure and why cap SS at 118k or is it 1128k ... not sure, somewhere around that.

I think that it is 112K and I actually agree with you on this one, but you do need to cap benifits! which is why they can't get this done.

If you do not cap benifits on the high income earners that really don't need it anyway, then you still do not catch up.

so cap benifits at todays levels, and then take the cap off the FICA taxes or at least double it!

Just so you know if we did just those 2 things and say that it is about a 3% tax on income over 25K you would go from 4&% of people not paying income tax to about 28% of the people not paying taxes, and you would add at least 2 decades to the SS and medicare program?

Not bad a Conservative and a Liberal got together and made something happen in less than 10 mins, to bad the idiots on both sides in washington! can't make anything like this happen!

[Chris]

Search any thread from Mister D or his lemmings ... it shouldn't take long at all ... enough said.

Let's get one thing straight ...

There really are Rich and Poor and they really do makeup 2% and 98% and to say this is the truth.

Calling a Group Takers or Makers and 47% don't pay any taxes isn't truthful ... unless you're really expecting the Military, disable and College Kids to pay taxes ... then just say that out in the open so there's no misunderstanding.

This is vastly different and you know it.

Say D does lump, you still can't by that lump all cons for then you are doing what you criticize.


Yes, there are statistical abstractions we might call rich, poor, middle class. But individuals show great economic mobility among those classes.


I didn't vote for Romney so see no point defending him. 47% pay no taxes is not exactly correct, isn't it no income taxes?

[Alif Qadr]

Rush, Sean ... Glen ... is that you?

Rush, Sean and Glen? Clearly there are instances when a person is abysmally incorrect, and this is on of those times.

[Alif Qadr]

Could you provide a post of mine as an example? I'm betting you can't.

I guess that if anyone happens to agree on a point made, Cigar calls them lemmings. This could also apply to him but that matters not I suppose.

[Mister D]

I guess that if anyone happens to agree on a point made, Cigar calls them lemmings. This could also apply to him but that matters not I suppose.

This was the second time in about 20 minutes where he "lumped" people together. Ironically, he just got doen complaining about that very habit in others. Now who these people are we still don't know...

[bladimz]

It makes no difference what the voting trends are, or the demographics, etc.

Liberal policies are guaranteed to fail. The only question becomes, how bad will the collapse be?

It's not a matter of outcome, it's a matter of degree.It's not the liberal policies at all; it's neither the conservative ideology. It's our imperialistic actions, trying to create "democracies" all over the world who will be forever indebted to us financially, and so will be forced to do our bidding. It's our government's policies, period. That's what's killing us.