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Peter1469
02-17-2019, 06:35 AM
An illegal immigrant killed my daughter. Trump's right — we must complete the border wall (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/15/beto-orourke-donald-trump-el-paso-immigration-wall-rally-column/2882181002/)

Build the wall. Imprison the hard left who are blocking the wall as conspirators with illegal immigration and the crimes that they commit.


In his declaration of a national emergency on our southern border, President Trump recognized (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/15/government-shutdown-trump-declare-emergency-get-wall-funding/2859532002/) the Americans who experienced the consequences of that emergency firsthand: angel moms and dads.

I never expected I would be one of them.


My beautiful daughter, Mandy, was a 28-year-old sixth-grade teacher (https://wset.com/news/nation-world/texas-family-of-teacher-killed-learns-suspect-had-criminal-past-and-in-us-illegally)at Eastwood Heights Elementary School, and the center of our family. She was my world, she was my wife’s best friend and, most importantly, she was my baby girl.


On the morning of November 22, 2018 — Thanksgiving Day — a man who should never have been in our country drank several beers (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/crime/2018/11/30/man-charged-teachers-hit-and-run-death-claimed-car-stolen/2162432002/) before getting behind the wheel of a car. He blew through two red lights at an intersection, killed my daughter (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/crime/2018/11/26/man-charged-el-paso-teachers-death-previously-arrested-assault/2117269002/), and changed our lives forever.


Surveillance footage shows that Mandy was using a crosswalk as she crossed the street. A witness described (https://www.kvia.com/crime/affidavit-driver-ran-two-red-lights-before-killing-teacher-told-father-to-report-car-stolen/898769531) the sound of the impact as being so loud that he thought two vehicles had collided, not that a human being was struck. My daughter died on the spot.

Common
02-17-2019, 07:06 AM
cmon stop being MEAN he was just looking for a better life, so he took hers

stjames1_53
02-17-2019, 07:13 AM
An illegal immigrant killed my daughter. Trump's right — we must complete the border wall (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/15/beto-orourke-donald-trump-el-paso-immigration-wall-rally-column/2882181002/)

Build the wall. Imprison the hard left who are blocking the wall as conspirators with illegal immigration and the crimes that they commit.

This is becoming more common everyday. We need that damned wall, and we need it yesterday.
The democrats who don't want all the money spent on a wall, want it spent on green energy and completely ignores the rest of America.
or
they are in favor of creating a new slave class.

Common
02-17-2019, 07:20 AM
No we dont its immoral to put up a wall and stop illegals from coming here illegally. WE NEED SANCTUARY BORDERS so they can just come and go when they want untethered. We need to abolish ice and border patrol so we dont annoy illegals from all over the world from coming here to pick our crops and there noses.

Illegals should be allowed to vote and kill americans at will as long as they vote democrat

Common
02-17-2019, 07:24 AM
Did you know that all illegals before they rape, kill or rob someone ask them if they are democrats or republicans, they dont want to hurt their enablers and benefactors

stjames1_53
02-17-2019, 07:27 AM
Did you know that all illegals before they rape, kill or rob someone ask them if they are democrats or republicans, they dont want to hurt their enablers and benefactors

ahhhhhhhhhh, the Ol' Democrat Rape Questionnaire.............

Peter1469
02-17-2019, 07:28 AM
Citizens should be able to kill illegals with no question by the state.

Like a nuisance species like hedgehogs.

stjames1_53
02-17-2019, 07:29 AM
Citizens should be able to kill illegals with no question by the state.

Like a nuisance species like hedgehogs.

non-indigenous life forms.............

Common
02-17-2019, 10:39 AM
alexa so you dont think this guy lost his daughter to an illegal alien, or you dont care ?

alexa
02-17-2019, 11:53 AM
@alexa (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2937) so you dont think this guy lost his daughter to an illegal alien, or you dont care ?
I think it's despicable to use anyone's death for bullshit political purposes.

Your false dichotomy is noted and derided.

FindersKeepers
02-17-2019, 12:00 PM
Citizens should be able to kill illegals with no question by the state.

Like a nuisance species like hedgehogs.

No, no....

That's not right. The punishment for living here illegally is not death by vigilante.

Rather, we need to make it much harder to enter illegally, remove citizenship from anchor babies, and microchip every illegal as we deport them so we can tell where they are and whether they're nearing our border again.

Admiral Ackbar
02-17-2019, 12:42 PM
Citizens should be able to kill illegals with no question by the state.

Like a nuisance species like hedgehogs.


I like it! Kind of like a Castle Doctrine for the Country!

Sergeant Gleed
02-17-2019, 01:15 PM
I think it's despicable to use anyone's death for bull$#@! political purposes.

Your false dichotomy is noted and derided.


What's "bullshit" about citing examples of how necessary a barrier is to keep the rapists, murderers, thieves, drug dealers and all the other elements that make up the Democrat Party out of the country?

If it's bullshit, explain why Cucky Schumer, Nutty Nancy, that fairy from Kenya and the rest of the criminal ilk supported the border wall when they held power before 2016.

What suddenly changed to make it bullshit, besides the fact that we now have an American in the White House, and he's an American who's working to actually build the Wall your idols were lying to you about before?

stjames1_53
02-17-2019, 03:13 PM
I think it's despicable to use anyone's death for bull$#@! political purposes.

Your false dichotomy is noted and derided.
so, she was destined to be murdered, it just didn't matter by whom.
Him being an illegal alien in our country was mere happenstance.............poor fellow, he's the real victim here

The Xl
02-17-2019, 04:11 PM
Same crazy takes in here. Obviously something needs to be done but going Charles Brunson on random illegals is obviously not the answer and is frankly flat out psychotic.

mak2
02-17-2019, 06:37 PM
If you guys really want to go this way, the next Democrat pres will take our guns, and will have much more of an emergency than the current POTUS claims, even if everything he said were true (it aint.)
An illegal immigrant killed my daughter. Trump's right — we must complete the border wall (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/15/beto-orourke-donald-trump-el-paso-immigration-wall-rally-column/2882181002/)

Build the wall. Imprison the hard left who are blocking the wall as conspirators with illegal immigration and the crimes that they commit.

Peter1469
02-17-2019, 06:47 PM
If you guys really want to go this way, the next Democrat pres will take our guns, and will have much more of an emergency than the current POTUS claims, even if everything he said were true (it aint.)

How?

You have no clue do you.

mak2
02-17-2019, 06:51 PM
Please explain. You never explain why people are wrong, you just insult them. Here is your big chance. Please explain why I am wrong.
How?

You have no clue do you.

Peter1469
02-17-2019, 06:57 PM
Please explain. You never explain why people are wrong, you just insult them. Here is your big chance. Please explain why I am wrong.
I have explained it many times. The National Emergencies Act by itself is useless. Go back and review why.

donttread
02-17-2019, 07:44 PM
An illegal immigrant killed my daughter. Trump's right — we must complete the border wall (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/15/beto-orourke-donald-trump-el-paso-immigration-wall-rally-column/2882181002/)

Build the wall. Imprison the hard left who are blocking the wall as conspirators with illegal immigration and the crimes that they commit.

Terrible story and I feel for this family. But for advocates of the wall to really make a point they should tell people if the likelyhood of an illegal doing this is greater than that of a resident or legal visa holder doing so.

mak2
02-17-2019, 07:46 PM
And how the wall will stop such events.
Terrible story and I feel for this family. But for advocates of the wall to really make a point they should tell people if the likelyhood of an illegal doing this is greater than that of a resident or legal visa holder doing so.

Sergeant Gleed
02-17-2019, 10:39 PM
Same crazy takes in here. Obviously something needs to be done but going Charles Brunson on random illegals is obviously not the answer and is frankly flat out psychotic.

If you're going to pretend to be knowledgeable about American cultural referents, would it be too much to ask for you to learn how to spell their names, too?

What part of the word "illegal" is too complicated for the comprehension of mere mortals such as myself that exempts them from....being subject to the laws of the land they have invaded?

Sergeant Gleed
02-17-2019, 10:41 PM
And how the wall will stop such events.

It won't.

You used the word "stopped".

It will REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD of them.

Clearly laws against rape don't work, so why do we continue to put rapists who are not named Bill Clinton in prison?

Laws against murder don't work, murder still happens, why is murder illegal?

The Xl
02-17-2019, 10:47 PM
If you're going to pretend to be knowledgeable about American cultural referents, would it be too much to ask for you to learn how to spell their names, too?

What part of the word "illegal" is too complicated for the comprehension of mere mortals such as myself that exempts them from....being subject to the laws of the land they have invaded?

Bronson is a little before my time, but I know who he is and have seen some of his movies. I misspelled his name, sue me.

Their are appropriate punishments for breaking certain laws. Obviously murder is not one of them in the case of someone merely being an illegal immigrant.

Sergeant Gleed
02-17-2019, 10:52 PM
Bronson is a little before my time, but I know who he is and have seen some of his movies. I misspelled his name, sue me.

Their are appropriate punishments for breaking certain laws. Obviously murder is not one of them in the case of someone merely being an illegal immigrant.


Got any guesses what the appropriate punishment might be for an illegal alien caught committing the heinous crime of being in my country illegally?

Death is a good answer, because it certainly precludes recidivism and is an excellent deterrent to other criminals.

Can you think of a reasonable alternative to shooting the damn things on sight?

MisterVeritis
02-17-2019, 11:07 PM
And how the wall will stop such events.
You think poorly.

Building the wall will reduce the increasing numbers.

How can anyone remain an idiot?

gamewell45
02-17-2019, 11:12 PM
Got any guesses what the appropriate punishment might be for an illegal alien caught committing the heinous crime of being in my country illegally?

Death is a good answer, because it certainly precludes recidivism and is an excellent deterrent to other criminals.

Can you think of a reasonable alternative to shooting the damn things on sight?

Do you think you could shoot a 7 year old child for illegally crossing the border? Let me remind you that in a civilized society you don't shoot unarmed people. We'd be condemned by the entire world for being barbarians and they would be right; we condemn those who perform abortion, yet we'll shoot unarmed men, women & children; I'm guessing for some people life has little value once they are born.

Just AnotherPerson
02-17-2019, 11:26 PM
This is a sad thread.

Sergeant Gleed
02-18-2019, 12:13 AM
Do you think you could shoot a 7 year old child for illegally crossing the border? Let me remind you that in a civilized society you don't shoot unarmed people. We'd be condemned by the entire world for being barbarians and they would be right; we condemn those who perform abortion, yet we'll shoot unarmed men, women & children; I'm guessing for some people life has little value once they are born.

The child is innocent.

Toss him back to whatever country he crawled out of.

Put a child's car seat on top of his parent's coffins for the trip back home...or maybe just install a couple of large cup-holders for the urns?

Wrong.

YOU don't shoot unarmed people.

YOU support the murder of babies in the womb, after their arms have been ripped off to make evacuating the uterus simpler.

Would you care to continue your line of argument?


So long as the entire world stops trying to flood my country and ride the gravy train, I don't care what those serfs and slaves think of the free men in the United States.

gamewell45
02-18-2019, 12:56 AM
The child is innocent.

Toss him back to whatever country he crawled out of.

Put a child's car seat on top of his parent's coffins for the trip back home...or maybe just install a couple of large cup-holders for the urns?

Wrong.

YOU don't shoot unarmed people.

YOU support the murder of babies in the womb, after their arms have been ripped off to make evacuating the uterus simpler.

Would you care to continue your line of argument?


So long as the entire world stops trying to flood my country and ride the gravy train, I don't care what those serfs and slaves think of the free men in the United States.
Yes I would. You have no idea what your talking about. As usual.

The Xl
02-18-2019, 01:10 AM
Got any guesses what the appropriate punishment might be for an illegal alien caught committing the heinous crime of being in my country illegally?

Death is a good answer, because it certainly precludes recidivism and is an excellent deterrent to other criminals.

Can you think of a reasonable alternative to shooting the damn things on sight?

You appear to be completely unhinged. It goes without saying that murder isn't an acceptable punishment for merely being an illegal immigrant.

stjames1_53
02-18-2019, 04:59 AM
You appear to be completely unhinged. It goes without saying that murder isn't an acceptable punishment for merely being an illegal immigrant.

then why have borders at all? Why verify that they don't have criminal records before we let them in? Why even bother to try and stem the flow as they surge against our border?
Yeah, I get it, anyone one who can walk across the Rio gets in unquestioned...............as in no requirement whatever.
BTW, how much is it going to cost? We already have verifiable numbers edging up to 338 billion a year [research fairus] just to take care of those who manage to wade the river and come through the backdoor.
I get it, though, The democrats need their victim/slave class

Abby08
02-18-2019, 09:43 AM
You appear to be completely unhinged. It goes without saying that murder isn't an acceptable punishment for merely being an illegal immigrant.

If they can come here and commit murder....I'll shed no tears if, in return, they start getting shot.

Abby08
02-18-2019, 09:48 AM
Enough people are finally going to get fed up with this coddling of illegals and, take matters into their own hands.

If nothing is done about crimes committed by illegals, people will resort to self help... maybe even take out a few illegal loving Democrats, with them. You can only push people so far, before they push back.

That day IS coming.

mak2
02-18-2019, 09:50 AM
:rollseyes:Or make stupid posts on conservative internet forums.
Enough people are finally going to get fed up with this coddling of illegals and, take matters into their own hands.

If nothing is done about crimes committed by illegals, people will resort to self help... maybe even take out a few illegal loving Democrats, with them. You can only push people so far, before they push back.

That day IS coming.

stjames1_53
02-18-2019, 09:58 AM
:rollseyes:Or make stupid posts on conservative internet forums.

and yet, you're still locking your doors. Why?

mak2
02-18-2019, 10:00 AM
You are so wrong about everything. Why. I live on a military base, if I think of it I lock my doors, but I would not come back home if I realized I forgot. You are so wrong and have such a simplistic view of the world.
and yet, you're still locking your doors. Why?

stjames1_53
02-18-2019, 10:03 AM
You are so wrong about everything. Why. I live on a military base, if I think of it I lock my doors, but I would not come back home if I realized I forgot. You are so wrong and have such a simplistic view of the world.

so, you live in a "gated" community. But even when you lock your doors, you must have a compelling reason. I know the answer, I just want you to admit it.

mak2
02-18-2019, 10:04 AM
It is not race based security concerns. Which, I believe, is where this started.
so, you live in a "gated" community. But even when you lock your doors, you must have a compelling reason. I know the answer, I just want you to admit it.

gamewell45
02-18-2019, 11:39 AM
and yet, you're still locking your doors. Why?

Because where I live, dumb rednecks, drunk or high on drugs still try to break into homes.

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 11:45 AM
You appear to be completely unhinged. It goes without saying that murder isn't an acceptable punishment for merely being an illegal immigrant.
The invasion must be stopped. Build the wall. Capture the ones who still get in. Gather great biometrics. Make them ineligible to ever come legally. On the second capture drop the perp in the ocean nearest the origin country. Drop the perp five miles offshore. If there is a third capture drop the perp ten miles out.

stjames1_53
02-18-2019, 11:46 AM
It is not race based security concerns. Which, I believe, is where this started.

the only one singing about race is you and you have yet to put something in print that supports your claim of racism.
Personally, I might suspect you of racism because you lock your doors. See how that works?
So, why do you lock your doors? Be a man and fess up

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 11:47 AM
Because where I live, dumb rednecks, drunk or high on drugs still try to break into homes.
Given your apparent belief in open borders, why would you immorally stop someone from breaking into your home?

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 11:47 AM
It is not race based security concerns. Which, I believe, is where this started.
That is where you started. All racists speak and believe as you do.

stjames1_53
02-18-2019, 11:49 AM
Because where I live, dumb rednecks, drunk or high on drugs still try to break into homes.

so, none of those are breaking into homes to rob or steal? Maybe to do worse?
Rednecks? Do you really want to go there? If I were to look at your post, only dumb rednecks commit all of the crimes across America. That would be a false narrative on your part.
mak2 says it's because of racism. You've just delivered your dose of racism for the day, dude

Trish
02-18-2019, 11:55 AM
A drug addict murdered my grandparents. A wall would not have saved them but maybe declaring an emergency on the opioids epidemic would have.


Many people have tragedy hit their families. Their tragedy isn't any more important than mine. Get over it.

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 12:01 PM
A drug addict murdered my grandparents. A wall would not have saved them but maybe declaring an emergency on the opioids epidemic would have.

Many people have tragedy hit their families. Their tragedy isn't any more important than mine. Get over it.
We can lessen the numbers of horrible things that happen when illegals occupy our nation by building the wall and ending the flow of new criminals.

We should also take additional steps to punish people who hire and shelter illegals. Those who offer illegal aliens sanctuary should be punished as well.

Trish
02-18-2019, 12:17 PM
We can lessen the numbers of horrible things that happen when illegals occupy our nation by building the wall and ending the flow of new criminals.

We should also take additional steps to punish people who hire and shelter illegals. Those who offer illegal aliens sanctuary should be punished as well.
The amount of people who are killed by illegal immigrants is minuscule to the amount of americans killed by fellow americans.

People get killed. It's tragic but it's not unique to these families. Their tragedy is not any more important than other families that have lost loved ones by non immigrants or illegals.

I would prefer my tax dollars go towards the cause that could have saved my loved ones and the majority of americans.

The wall is a ridiculous made up emergency. We have real emergencies that need addressed before this stupid wall.

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 12:21 PM
The amount of people who are killed by illegal immigrants is minuscule to the amount of americans killed by fellow americans.
We will make that number even smaller when the wall is built.

People get killed. It's tragic but it's not unique to these families. Their tragedy is not any more important than other families that have lost loved ones by non immigrants or illegals.
It is, however, an additional reason for building the border protection system.

I would prefer my tax dollars go towards the cause that could have saved my loved ones.
Perhaps some of your taxed dollars do. Most of those should be State and local taxed dollars. Not federal.

stjames1_53
02-18-2019, 12:36 PM
The amount of people who are killed by illegal immigrants is minuscule to the amount of americans killed by fellow americans.

People get killed. It's tragic but it's not unique to these families. Their tragedy is not any more important than other families that have lost loved ones by non immigrants or illegals.

I would prefer my tax dollars go towards the cause that could have saved my loved ones and the majority of americans.

The wall is a ridiculous made up emergency. We have real emergencies that need addressed before this stupid wall.

It isn't just murder or death they bring.
They may have been the drugs.
They bring human trafficking.
MS-13 brings only misery and suffering.
The cost is a staggering 338 billion a year taking care of these so-called refugees. And you're really complaining about spending 30 billion to make them come into the country lawfully?
That way we can vaccinate them, check them out/treat them medically, and verify they are who they are and who they are travelling with.
Is that too much to ask?

Trish
02-18-2019, 01:16 PM
It isn't just murder or death they bring.
They may have been the drugs.
They bring human trafficking.
MS-13 brings only misery and suffering.
The cost is a staggering 338 billion a year taking care of these so-called refugees. And you're really complaining about spending 30 billion to make them come into the country lawfully?
That way we can vaccinate them, check them out/treat them medically, and verify they are who they are and who they are travelling with.
Is that too much to ask?

My grandparents were murdered by a fellow american and are just important as those killed by non americans.

What are you and these families planning on doing to protect americans from americans?

How much money are you willing to cough up? What legislation are you willing to support related to opioids and guns?

Abby08
02-18-2019, 01:31 PM
The amount of people who are killed by illegal immigrants is minuscule to the amount of americans killed by fellow americans.

People get killed. It's tragic but it's not unique to these families. Their tragedy is not any more important than other families that have lost loved ones by non immigrants or illegals.

I would prefer my tax dollars go towards the cause that could have saved my loved ones and the majority of americans.

The wall is a ridiculous made up emergency. We have real emergencies that need addressed before this stupid wall.

Look at it this way, how many people, no matter how ' miniscule' would be alive today had an illegal alien not killed them?

I don't think the families of loved ones killed by illegals look at it as, " yeah, but more are killed by legal citizens, so, I don't feel so bad."

Abby08
02-18-2019, 01:34 PM
The point is, if just one innocent person can be spared death at the hands of someone who shouldn't be here too begin with and, if a wall can prevent that.... it'll be worth it... especially if the one spared is 'your' child/parent/spouse...etc.....right?

stjames1_53
02-18-2019, 01:34 PM
My grandparents were murdered by a fellow american and are just important as those killed by non americans.

What are you and these families planning on doing to protect americans from americans?

How much money are you willing to cough up? What legislation on your willing to support related to opioids and guns?

Hence the 2nd A. My primary defense is me. I can rely upon no one or no amount of money to do what I must do.
I am not unsympathetic to your plight. I would wish that on one.
The opioid addiction is indeed an epidemic. Like all man made chemicals there are severe side affects. My concern is when they put kids on ADHA medications for years in school and suddenly cut them off. What happens to their brains? They look for other things. Meth is a real serious problem around here, matching heroin, but with opioids closing in on the lead. Petty crime and social disease are off the charts, and that includes battery cases.
So, we have enough problems with out adding more to the pot. 338 billion is a big problem.....a very big problem

donttread
02-18-2019, 02:34 PM
Got any guesses what the appropriate punishment might be for an illegal alien caught committing the heinous crime of being in my country illegally?

Death is a good answer, because it certainly precludes recidivism and is an excellent deterrent to other criminals.

Can you think of a reasonable alternative to shooting the damn things on sight?

Securing the border and acting with compassion.

gamewell45
02-18-2019, 02:41 PM
so, none of those are breaking into homes to rob or steal? Maybe to do worse?
Rednecks? Do you really want to go there? If I were to look at your post, only dumb rednecks commit all of the crimes across America. That would be a false narrative on your part.
mak2 says it's because of racism. You've just delivered your dose of racism for the day, dude

@stjames I took you seriously until your first sentence. Of course the first amendment guarantees your right to express your viewpoint here but likewise the same goes for me and in this case I would suggest you re-read my posting since nowhere did I make the statement(s) you allege. Next time when you decide to discuss a topic in a serious mode, then we can have some useful dialogue, but until then we are both done having any further discussion between us in this thread. Understand.....Dude?

gamewell45
02-18-2019, 02:43 PM
Given your apparent belief in open borders, why would you immorally stop someone from breaking into your home?

Be careful MisterVeritis appearances can be deceiving.

Abby08
02-18-2019, 02:46 PM
Securing the border and acting with compassion.

Compassion? For people who invade our country, who commit crimes, who bring diseases with them...who think we owe them a living?

My compassion ran out a loooooong time ago.

Common
02-18-2019, 02:52 PM
Bronson is a little before my time, but I know who he is and have seen some of his movies. I misspelled his name, sue me.

Their are appropriate punishments for breaking certain laws. Obviously murder is not one of them in the case of someone merely being an illegal immigrant.
Of course it isnt and its ridiculous for anyone to even make that statement. We need to build a physical barrier, we need to put electronic surveillance and other tech to assist border patrol, then we need to deport all illegals coming out of Prison or Jail. I would be for deporting illegals that are found to be illegals under any circumstances, to send a message you are not staying here one way or the other.
Place huge fines on employers the first time they are busted with illegal employees, the second time jail time.

Then we should revisit "LEGAL IMMIGRATION" and adjust the amounts accordingly.

stjames1_53
02-18-2019, 02:53 PM
@stjames I took you seriously until your first sentence. Of course the first amendment guarantees your right to express your viewpoint here but likewise the same goes for me and in this case I would suggest you re-read my posting since nowhere did I make the statement(s) you allege. Next time when you decide to discuss a topic in a serious mode, then we can have some useful dialogue, but until then we are both done having any further discussion between us in this thread. Understand.....Dude?

is this NOT your post?
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by gamewell45 http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2537381#post2537381) Because where I live, dumb rednecks, drunk or high on drugs still try to break into homes.




you used the term "redneck" in a quite derogatory manner. First, there's people like you, and second, the rest are rednecks trying to break into your house?
I sure hope you didn't mean redneck as a specific group of people you don't like and label them thusly
One does not have to be a "redneck" to be a criminal.
Do you lock your doors? a simple yes or no would suffice.

The Xl
02-18-2019, 03:01 PM
If they can come here and commit murder....I'll shed no tears if, in return, they start getting shot.

Killing illegals who have committed murder is a lot different than killing illegals who are just here. We don't chop peoples hands off for stealing 30 cent backs of winterfresh gum either.

The Xl
02-18-2019, 03:02 PM
The invasion must be stopped. Build the wall. Capture the ones who still get in. Gather great biometrics. Make them ineligible to ever come legally. On the second capture drop the perp in the ocean nearest the origin country. Drop the perp five miles offshore. If there is a third capture drop the perp ten miles out.
I'm all for a wall and security. I'm not for all the psychotic extra stuff.

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 03:46 PM
I'm all for a wall and security. I'm not for all the psychotic extra stuff.
Why not? It would end attempts to sneak in.

countryboy
02-18-2019, 03:58 PM
Terrible story and I feel for this family. But for advocates of the wall to really make a point they should tell people if the likelyhood of an illegal doing this is greater than that of a resident or legal visa holder doing so.
Are you serious? Why would it have to be "greater than that of a resident or legal visa holder doing so"? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

Abby08
02-18-2019, 05:12 PM
Why not? It would end attempts to sneak in.

If border patrol and/or the ranchers who's land illegals trespass on, we're legally permitted to shoot, there'd be a lot fewer illegals coming here.

But..........

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 05:14 PM
My grandparents were murdered by a fellow american and are just important as those killed by non americans.
What are you and these families planning on doing to protect americans from americans?
How much money are you willing to cough up? What legislation are you willing to support related to opioids and guns?
Those are state and local governments issues. Defending the nation is a federal issue.

Docthehun
02-18-2019, 06:55 PM
Why not? It would end attempts to sneak in.

Of course, not everyone agrees.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-border-wall-not-no-191020429.html

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 06:57 PM
Of course, not everyone agrees.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-border-wall-not-no-191020429.html
It would be fun if you made an argument.

Docthehun
02-18-2019, 07:00 PM
If border patrol and/or the ranchers who's land illegals trespass on, we're legally permitted to shoot, there'd be a lot fewer illegals coming here.

But..........

But, we'll ignore the 1,000 or so AMERICAN land owners who'll have ground taken from them under eminent domain, because, under "National Emergency" game rules, the President can seize the land and that is that.

Docthehun
02-18-2019, 07:04 PM
It would be fun if you made an argument.

"Show me a thirty foot wall and I'll show you a thirty-two foot ladder."

Okay, your on! How hard would it have been for YOU personally to have breached, in some form or fashion, those "trial run" walls that the POTUS gave the "thumbs up". You gotta' be honest!

donttread
02-18-2019, 07:06 PM
Are you serious? Why would it have to be "greater than that of a resident or legal visa holder doing so"? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.


Well then turn on your hearing aid because it makes perfect sense. We are continually told that illegal immigrants are criminal types ( other than simply being in the country illegally)_. If that's true they should display hirer crime rates than our general population. If they don't then that whole argument is bullshit.
If the crime rates are the same as ours then their criminality is a non issue

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 08:22 PM
My grandparents were murdered by a fellow american ...
Was he, the fellow American, a Democrat?

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 08:25 PM
"Show me a thirty foot wall and I'll show you a thirty-two foot ladder."

Okay, your on! How hard would it have been for YOU personally to have breached, in some form or fashion, those "trial run" walls that the POTUS gave the "thumbs up". You gotta' be honest!
Bring the 32-foot tall ladder. The wall has succeeded. It bought response time.

On the American side of the border, we will build high-speed roads, command and control centers, surveillance posts.

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 08:26 PM
But, we'll ignore the 1,000 or so AMERICAN land owners who'll have ground taken from them under eminent domain, because, under "National Emergency" game rules, the President can seize the land and that is that.
This is precisely why we have eminent domain. They will get a fair market value price. We will get security.

Trish
02-18-2019, 08:27 PM
Was he a Democrat?

Was who a democrat? What does your question have to do with my grandparents being murdered? I hope you are not trying to disparage my grandparents.

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 08:28 PM
Was who a democrat? What does your question have to do with my grandparents being murdered? I hope you are not trying to disparage my grandparents.
Was the American who murdered your grandparents a Democrat? I bet he was.

mak2
02-18-2019, 08:32 PM
What an idiot.
Was the American who murdered your grandparents a Democrat? I bet he was.

Mister D
02-18-2019, 08:34 PM
What an idiot.

Given the demographics of both party membership and crime it's your safest bet

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 08:35 PM
Was the American who murdered your grandparents a Democrat? I bet he was.

What an idiot.
Aren't most criminals Democrats? Think, if you can.

We know illegal aliens tend to vote for Democrats. Democrats encourage them. Most criminals are Democrats.

Trish
02-18-2019, 08:46 PM
Was the American who murdered your grandparents a Democrat? I bet he was.

I did not ask him...... we weren't permitted to talk with him directly during the trial. It also never came up when we used to play together when I was younger and I would visit my grandparents for a couple weeks during summer break.

MisterVeritis
02-18-2019, 08:54 PM
I did not ask him...... we weren't permitted to talk with him directly during the trial. It also never came up when we used to play together when I was younger and I would visit my grandparents for a couple weeks during summer break.
Okay.

Trish
02-18-2019, 09:00 PM
Okay.

You're goofy. lol

gamewell45
02-18-2019, 09:26 PM
If border patrol and/or the ranchers who's land illegals trespass on, we're legally permitted to shoot, there'd be a lot fewer illegals coming here.

But..........

Would you actually pull the trigger on an "illegal" trespassing on your property?

Tahuyaman
02-19-2019, 12:07 AM
Got any guesses what the appropriate punishment might be for an illegal alien caught committing the heinous crime of being in my country illegally?

Death is a good answer, because it certainly precludes recidivism and is an excellent deterrent to other criminals.

Can you think of a reasonable alternative to shooting the damn things on sight?
In America we don’t kill people for entering the country illegally. They do that in North Korea though.

Abby08
02-19-2019, 12:10 AM
Would you actually pull the trigger on an "illegal" trespassing on your property?

I'm not a border patrol agent, nor am I a rancher on the southern border.

Cotton1
02-19-2019, 12:18 AM
Was who a democrat? What does your question have to do with my grandparents being murdered? I hope you are not trying to disparage my grandparents.
I think any illegals over 3' tall should be shot on sight.

gamewell45
02-19-2019, 01:46 AM
I'm not a border patrol agent, nor am I a rancher on the southern border.

Okay then, hypothetical question; if you were a rancher and came across "illegals" on your property, would you shoot to kill them?

Common
02-19-2019, 04:53 AM
Do Americans commit crimes? of course, what does that have to do with allowing people to enter our country illegally and commit more crime.

If someone makes the excuse for illegal immigrants committing crime is Americans commit crime, remind them that illegal immigrants are not supposed to be here killing americans, robbing them, raping them, because we have enough of OUR OWN to deal with.

Thats like saying allow illegal immigrants to sell drugs because americans do. Allow illegal immigrants to drive drunk because americans do.

There is no excuse for illegal immigration it should NEVER be allowed for any reason and its a 100% DEMOCRAT fiasco thats ruining the country with more Debt, crime and keeping wages in the toilet and costing us billions

Anyone know of an illegal immigrant asking a person are you a democrat or a republican before they murder and rape them or commit any crime against them, the democrats FOR VOTES are selling their own kids and grandkids out. They are the ones that will do all the paying and suffering for what they are doing today. Not me not Pelosi, Chucky Schumer not Trump,

stjames1_53
02-19-2019, 06:29 AM
Okay then, hypothetical question; if you were a rancher and came across "illegals" on your property, would you shoot to kill them?

First, you never shoot to wound. That is a liberal talking point.
Second, What the hell are they doing on my property?
In some states the Castle Doctrine protects the rights of the property holder.
In other states, you cannot hold them until ICE arrives and is considered to be kidnapping. CA is one of those states, and they are disarming their residents. That means the illegal aliens can enter and do what ever they want without fear, including MS-13.
So, it depends. If they are running across my property and on the way out, I'll call ICE and report it. If they are in my house, I'll call the coroner.
So, it depends on the criminal. What happens is their choice.

donttread
02-19-2019, 07:15 AM
Was the American who murdered your grandparents a Democrat? I bet he was.

Aren't most criminals Democrats? Think, if you can.

We know illegal aliens tend to vote for Democrats. Democrats encourage them. Most criminals are Democrats.

Depends . If we started really going after white collar crime maybe not.

donttread
02-19-2019, 07:20 AM
I think any illegals over 3' tall should be shot on sight.

So what? School age kids and up?

donttread
02-19-2019, 07:23 AM
First, you never shoot to wound. That is a liberal talking point.
Second, What the hell are they doing on my property?
In some states the Castle Doctrine protects the rights of the property holder.
In other states, you cannot hold them until ICE arrives and is considered to be kidnapping. CA is one of those states, and they are disarming their residents. That means the illegal aliens can enter and do what ever they want without fear, including MS-13.
So, it depends. If they are running across my property and on the way out, I'll call ICE and report it. If they are in my house, I'll call the coroner.
So, it depends on the criminal. What happens is their choice.

Why would you shoot someone for simply walking through your property? You have no real right to shoot unless you believe you or your family are in danger from them. If they're in the lawn , get your gun ready, call 911 and just watch. If they leave put your gun away.

stjames1_53
02-19-2019, 07:30 AM
Why would you shoot someone for simply walking through your property? You have no real right to shoot unless you believe you or your family are in danger from them. If they're in the lawn , get your gun ready, call 911 and just watch. If they leave put your gun away.

You obviously didn't read the part where I said I'd call LEO if they were scooting across my property. I merely stated that some states follow the Castle Doctrine. I'd only shoot them if they were in my house. Quit trying to put words in my mouth.

countryboy
02-19-2019, 07:42 AM
Well then turn on your hearing aid because it makes perfect sense. We are continually told that illegal immigrants are criminal types ( other than simply being in the country illegally)_. If that's true they should display hirer crime rates than our general population. If they don't then that whole argument is bull$#@!.
If the crime rates are the same as ours then their criminality is a non issue

Again, stupidest thing I've ever heard. I don't know anyone who characterizes it in that goofy way (and neither do you). Illegal aliens shouldn't be in this country in the first place, any crimes they commit (other than coming here in the first place) are completely preventable.

gamewell45
02-19-2019, 08:29 AM
First, you never shoot to wound. That is a liberal talking point.
Second, What the hell are they doing on my property?
In some states the Castle Doctrine protects the rights of the property holder.
In other states, you cannot hold them until ICE arrives and is considered to be kidnapping. CA is one of those states, and they are disarming their residents. That means the illegal aliens can enter and do what ever they want without fear, including MS-13.
So, it depends. If they are running across my property and on the way out, I'll call ICE and report it. If they are in my house, I'll call the coroner.
So, it depends on the criminal. What happens is their choice.

Okay that's fine then. Your viewpoint is duly noted.

I want to hear from Abby08 since that was who the question was originally directed at.

Docthehun
02-19-2019, 08:52 AM
Bring the 32-foot tall ladder. The wall has succeeded. It bought response time.

On the American side of the border, we will build high-speed roads, command and control centers, surveillance posts.

By the way, nice dodge. You forgot to address part two. I figured that given an 8 hour day, you'd find a way to breach all eight prototypes.

Docthehun
02-19-2019, 08:56 AM
This is precisely why we have eminent domain. They will get a fair market value price. We will get security.

We'll check in afterwards to see how they feel about their "fair market" settlement. We will get a false sense of security.

Abby08
02-19-2019, 09:50 AM
Okay then, hypothetical question; if you were a rancher and came across "illegals" on your property, would you shoot to kill them?

Probably. A rancher's livelihood is his ranch, his cattle, illegals cut fences to gain access to the property, letting cattle escape, then, they litter the property with feces (toxic waste) dirty diapers (more toxic waste) plastic jugs, bags and, wrappers, they build fires, which endanger the home, the property, the cattle. They have zero regard for other people's property.

I'm always going to see them as a threat to myself and my family, they did, after all, already break the law by being here, plus there's the matter of homes being broken into, robberies, rapes and murders....yeah, I'd consider any/every illegal on my property a threat.

There's no use shooting to injure, anyone knows, when you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you'd better be aiming to kill... besides, to just wound them, means they'll be taken to a U.S trauma center, which I'll have to pay for.

So, answer your questions?

I have zero, sympathy, empathy, compassion for those people, they've taken enough from us, if they start getting shot, maybe, just maybe, they'll think twice before coming here illegally.

Abby08
02-19-2019, 09:54 AM
Why would you shoot someone for simply walking through your property? You have no real right to shoot unless you believe you or your family are in danger from them. If they're in the lawn , get your gun ready, call 911 and just watch. If they leave put your gun away.

Any illegal, is a threat. Get them, before they get you, or, someone else.

gamewell45
02-19-2019, 10:11 AM
Probably. A rancher's livelihood is his ranch, his cattle, illegals cut fences to gain access to the property, letting cattle escape, then, they litter the property with feces (toxic waste) dirty diapers (more toxic waste) plastic jugs, bags and, wrappers, they build fires, which endanger the home, the property, the cattle. They have zero regard for other people's property.

I'm always going to see them as a threat to myself and my family, they did, after all, already break the law by being here, plus there's the matter of homes being broken into, robberies, rapes and murders....yeah, I'd consider any/every illegal on my property a threat.

There's no use shooting to injure, anyone knows, when you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you'd better be aiming to kill... besides, to just wound them, means they'll be taken to a U.S trauma center, which I'll have to pay for.

So, answer your questions?

I have zero, sympathy, empathy, compassion for those people, they've taken enough from us, if they start getting shot, maybe, just maybe, they'll think twice before coming here illegally.

Thank you for being honest; my only other question would be, how would you determine whether or not they are illegal? And suppose it was a US citizen who was legitimately lost and stumbled on to your property?

Abby08
02-19-2019, 10:23 AM
Thank you for being honest; my only other question would be, how would you determine whether or not they are illegal? And suppose it was a US citizen who was legitimately lost and stumbled on to your property?

Easy to tell. Illegals will be travelling with others, carrying water jugs, backpacks, that area is very remote, there are no roads going through the ranch, there would be no reason for a person to be travelling through the property, cattle ranches over there are hundreds/thousands of acres, there'd be no reason for a traveler to be anywhere near that location.

Plus, the giveaway would be, they scatter when they see ya coming....a lost traveler would flag you down, for help.

stjames1_53
02-19-2019, 10:46 AM
Easy to tell. Illegals will be travelling with others, carrying water jugs, backpacks, that area is very remote, there are no roads going through the ranch, there would be no reason for a person to be travelling through the property, cattle ranches over there are hundreds/thousands of acres, there'd be no reason for a traveler to be anywhere near that location.

Plus, the giveaway would be, they scatter when they see ya coming....a lost traveler would flag you down, for help.

Or they charge you as a group.

Abby08
02-19-2019, 10:48 AM
Or they charge you as a group.

Yeah, and still, to shoot one or more of them, is considered murder and, you end up the one being in trouble.

mak2
02-19-2019, 10:50 AM
Where did you get this? Which border state will not allow you to defend yourself if in fear of your life by a group of people attacking you?
Yeah, and still, to shoot one or more of them, is considered murder and, you end up the one being in trouble.

gamewell45
02-19-2019, 10:59 AM
Easy to tell. Illegals will be travelling with others, carrying water jugs, backpacks, that area is very remote, there are no roads going through the ranch, there would be no reason for a person to be travelling through the property, cattle ranches over there are hundreds/thousands of acres, there'd be no reason for a traveler to be anywhere near that location.

Plus, the giveaway would be, they scatter when they see ya coming....a lost traveler would flag you down, for help.
Okay, thanks for your response back.

stjames1_53
02-19-2019, 11:10 AM
Where did you get this? Which border state will not allow you to defend yourself if in fear of your life by a group of people attacking you?
California

mak2
02-19-2019, 11:24 AM
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/california-law/california-self-defense-laws.html
A group of them people charging would would certainly qualify.

The defendant is not guilty of [whatever forceful act was used in self defense] if he/she used force against the other person in lawful self defense or in defense of another. The defendant acted in lawful self defense or defense of another if:

The defendant reasonably believed that (he/she or someone else) was in imminent danger of suffering bodily injury (or was in imminent danger of being touched unlawfully);
The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of force was necessary to defend against that danger; AND
The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger

MisterVeritis
02-19-2019, 11:25 AM
You're goofy. lol
If one had to bet one would bet the man who killed your grandparents was a Democrat. Aren't you a Democrat?

MisterVeritis
02-19-2019, 11:27 AM
I think any illegals over 3' tall should be shot on sight.
A certain Mongolian chieftain established peace in a conquered area by killing everyone who stood taller than the axle hole in a cart's wheel. It worked.

MisterVeritis
02-19-2019, 11:29 AM
Depends. If we started really going after white collar crime maybe not.
Even there most white collar criminals are also Democrats. Democrats are our only native criminals.

MisterVeritis
02-19-2019, 11:32 AM
Bring the 32-foot tall ladder. The wall has succeeded. It bought response time.

By the way, nice dodge. You forgot to address part two. I figured that given an 8 hour day, you'd find a way to breach all eight prototypes.
No dodge. The point of any physical barrier is to buy time for the defender.

I sometimes forget not everyone has the same background.

MisterVeritis
02-19-2019, 11:33 AM
We'll check in afterwards to see how they feel about their "fair market" settlement. We will get a false sense of security.
Fair market value is what the law requires. It does not matter how they feel.

Abby08
02-19-2019, 12:37 PM
Where did you get this? Which border state will not allow you to defend yourself if in fear of your life by a group of people attacking you?

Democrats always want to blame the shooter for an illegal getting shot.

It'll come down to, "did you really have to shoot?" It's happened before, to an Arizona rancher, who was, in his mind, defending himself and his property, he was vilified by the media and, eventually the state, not wanting to appear racist, sided with the illegals.

Yeah, that's how it usually ends.... sanctuary cities/states? There's your answer.

mak2
02-19-2019, 03:45 PM
You really need to take an NRA deadly force course. You are clueless.
Democrats always want to blame the shooter for an illegal getting shot.

It'll come down to, "did you really have to shoot?" It's happened before, to an Arizona rancher, who was, in his mind, defending himself and his property, he was vilified by the media and, eventually the state, not wanting to appear racist, sided with the illegals.

Yeah, that's how it usually ends.... sanctuary cities/states? There's your answer.

stjames1_53
02-19-2019, 03:49 PM
You really need to take an NRA deadly force course. You are clueless.

why should she? I bet she's great at DCM shots

donttread
02-19-2019, 06:19 PM
You obviously didn't read the part where I said I'd call LEO if they were scooting across my property. I merely stated that some states follow the Castle Doctrine. I'd only shoot them if they were in my house. Quit trying to put words in my mouth.

Didn't know I was . I thought you were contemplating "citizen's arrest". I must of misunderstood. So are you applying "Castle doctrine" to the property or just the house? To me it would be all about when and where they became a threat . My old carbine can be out shot at distances by newer guns and most have more knock down power. But at household distances I could rack off shots like the damned riffleman with that thing . And at that distance they'd hit plenty hard enough. \
But a trespasser on my lawn will probably only get the grumpy old man yell!

donttread
02-19-2019, 06:22 PM
Again, stupidest thing I've ever heard. I don't know anyone who characterizes it in that goofy way (and neither do you). Illegal aliens shouldn't be in this country in the first place, any crimes they commit (other than coming here in the first place) are completely preventable.

Hell FOX news catagorizes them that way. Gang m,embers and crooks, as do some posters. Where ya been? Yes they shouldn't be here but that is a different issue.

donttread
02-19-2019, 06:24 PM
Democrats always want to blame the shooter for an illegal getting shot.

It'll come down to, "did you really have to shoot?" It's happened before, to an Arizona rancher, who was, in his mind, defending himself and his property, he was vilified by the media and, eventually the state, not wanting to appear racist, sided with the illegals.

Yeah, that's how it usually ends.... sanctuary cities/states? There's your answer.

What was the situation. Did the rancher have reasonable cause to fear for his life? Or was he protecting his posted signs?

stjames1_53
02-19-2019, 06:33 PM
Didn't know I was . I thought you were contemplating "citizen's arrest". I must of misunderstood. So are you applying "Castle doctrine" to the property or just the house? To me it would be all about when and where they became a threat . My old carbine can be out shot at distances by newer guns and most have more knock down power. But at household distances I could rack off shots like the damned riffleman with that thing . And at that distance they'd hit plenty hard enough. \
But a trespasser on my lawn will probably only get the grumpy old man yell!

ditto. I was referring to the fact that some of them aren't so quick to scare. Then it becomes problematic.

stjames1_53
02-19-2019, 06:35 PM
What was the situation. Did the rancher have reasonable cause to fear for his life? Or was he protecting his posted signs?

in some states, it doesn't matter. An invader on your property.......it's kind of hard to determine what they're going to do. If they are hot footing it to get out, fine, call ICE.
If they become deadly, call the coroner.

Abby08
02-19-2019, 07:09 PM
in some states, it doesn't matter. An invader on your property.......it's kind of hard to determine what they're going to do. If they are hot footing it to get out, fine, call ICE.
If they become deadly, call the coroner.

New Mexico is a, plant your feet, shoot to kill, state, I'll have to look up Arizona's laws on that.

Abby08
02-19-2019, 07:11 PM
You really need to take an NRA deadly force course. You are clueless.

What I really need, is to not take advice from people like you.

Abby08
02-19-2019, 07:14 PM
What was the situation. Did the rancher have reasonable cause to fear for his life? Or was he protecting his posted signs?

You mean, the signs that say, " no trespassing," "private property," and, "keep out?"

Once they've ignored those, you can expect them to be up to no good.