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View Full Version : Can We Realistically Win The War On Drugs Or Is It Time To Change Our Thinking



Disco Stu
02-02-2013, 06:21 AM
Despite the so called WAR ON DRUGS over three decades later here we are the problemccontinues to grow

Go to any major American city even small towns the drugs flow through the streets like a raging current

Between State Local and Federal this nation spends over a trillion dollars collectively fighting the WAR ON DRUGS and literally numerous states spend more on prisons than Universities and job programs

We have two elements at work here Entrepreneurship and Addiction

As a black market commands inflated prices an enterprising criminal element is lured to drugs as an easy way to get rich then on the addiction end you have the drug users who despite stiff consequences are dead set on using drugs no matter what

We have several states in the process of legalized marijuana although a strong moral opposition exists and what about hard drugs like Heroin which currently is coming back with a vengeance across America

Seems to me there's a better way

What are your idea's

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 06:22 AM
It is a colossal waste of money and is a failure.

GrassrootsConservative
02-02-2013, 06:27 AM
See the 3rd quote in my signature for how I feel about the subject.

Besides, if we're going to classify marijuana as a drug then we need to classify anything that has caffeine or sugar as a drug.

Almost everything is a drug under the government's definition, it just depends upon how far they want to stretch the goal posts to fit their bullshit agenda.

Disco Stu
02-02-2013, 06:33 AM
See the 3rd quote in my signature for how I feel about the subject.

Besides, if we're going to classify marijuana as a drug then we need to classify anything that has caffeine or sugar as a drug.

Almost everything is a drug under the government's definition, it just depends upon how far they want to stretch the goal posts to fit their bullshit agenda.

Well I see several states already decriminalizing marijuana

But we must also address the issue of hard drugs

Narcotics is where the majority of crime and enforcement costs arise

Yes I do AGREE with line three and Ron Paul is correct

I believe the biggest obstacle is the moral objection and the tendency of closed mindedness within our society

GrassrootsConservative
02-02-2013, 06:45 AM
Well I see several states already decriminalizing marijuana

But we must also address the issue of hard drugs

Narcotics is where the majority of crime and enforcement costs arise

Yes I do AGREE with line three and Ron Paul is correct

I believe the biggest obstacle is the moral objection and the tendency of closed mindedness within our society

The problem right now is the federal government not giving states their own right to choose what they want.

When California made medical marijuana legal the first thing Obama did was send a bunch of feds there to sweep a couple dozen grow-houses so that he could get a quick buck.

The power-grab made by D.C. is absolutely insane. There's no reason for it and I think the first thing the American people need to do once they get their heads out of their asses is demand that the federal government give them their rights back.

That's one of the reasons why I wanted Ron Paul to win in the first place, is because he is the first politician I've ever heard actually advocate state's rights.

Currently, as far as I am concerned, the America now is not the same America that was founded because states in the old America were given their own blank pages to print their own Rule Of Law on.

And that has been taken away from them.

Disco Stu
02-02-2013, 07:00 AM
The problem right now is the federal government not giving states their own right to choose what they want.

When California made medical marijuana legal the first thing Obama did was send a bunch of feds there to sweep a couple dozen grow-houses so that he could get a quick buck.

The power-grab made by D.C. is absolutely insane. There's no reason for it and I think the first thing the American people need to do once they get their heads out of their asses is demand that the federal government give them their rights back.

That's one of the reasons why I wanted Ron Paul to win in the first place, is because he is the first politician I've ever heard actually advocate state's rights.

Currently, as far as I am concerned, the America now is not the same America that was founded because states in the old America were given their own blank pages to print their own Rule Of Law on.

And that has been taken away from them.

If I'M not mistaken California has had medical marijuana since the mid 1990's

Colorado and Washington State have not only decriminalized marijuana they are allowing a process of legalized sale and distribution much like California's medical marijuana programs

Awhile back the San Francisco Chronicle did a piece on federal agents shutting down medical marijuana dispensaries and it showed the building boarded up and people lined up on sidewalk but gang members had moved in after the bust to supply marijuana in the dispensaries place

zelmo1234
02-02-2013, 07:09 AM
There is a three step process to help with the issues. And take some of the crime off the streets.

Still about half of the populations is totally against the legalisation of pot. so how do you get them on board

Step one , what the populations fears is people living off the system, os you make welfare and unemployment laws supjec to drug and alcohol random testing. If you don't pass, you don't get a check! This will bring enough people on board to get the laws passed.

Step #2 you use a taxation system much like there is on alcohol, and use this for law inforcement and incarseration expenses. And just like stores have to have a liecense to sell booze they would need the same type of license to sell pot. And with this rush of cash into law enforcement you crack down hard on drug crimes, which also involve guns much of the time. use the 10, 20, life laws in this way, 10 years first offence selling illegal drugs, 20 years if it has the use of a firearm or second offense. and life if the firearm is discharges, or third offense. And make these labor camps, not country clubs.

#3 make sure that helathcare costs do not rise? I believe that there are some cancer studies that show smoking pot has a similar risk to smoking with reguards to cancer, I might be totally wrong, but this would go to insurance reform which looks like will be coming very soon!

Just another thought!

Disco Stu
02-02-2013, 07:44 AM
There is a three step process to help with the issues. And take some of the crime off the streets.

Still about half of the populations is totally against the legalisation of pot. so how do you get them on board

Step one , what the populations fears is people living off the system, os you make welfare and unemployment laws supjec to drug and alcohol random testing. If you don't pass, you don't get a check! This will bring enough people on board to get the laws passed.

Step #2 you use a taxation system much like there is on alcohol, and use this for law inforcement and incarseration expenses. And just like stores have to have a liecense to sell booze they would need the same type of license to sell pot. And with this rush of cash into law enforcement you crack down hard on drug crimes, which also involve guns much of the time. use the 10, 20, life laws in this way, 10 years first offence selling illegal drugs, 20 years if it has the use of a firearm or second offense. and life if the firearm is discharges, or third offense. And make these labor camps, not country clubs.

#3 make sure that helathcare costs do not rise? I believe that there are some cancer studies that show smoking pot has a similar risk to smoking with reguards to cancer, I might be totally wrong, but this would go to insurance reform which looks like will be coming very soon!

Just another thought!

#1 : i do agree with drug testing for public assistance these programs are to help people back on their feet not enable sloth

#2: I disagree with your mass incarceration plan MANY states already have three strikes, the Rockefeller drugs laws of 70's and 80's and truth in sentencing while the crime rate has declined in the past few decades prisons are busting at the seems Locking up low level drug offenders only serves to make a permanent underclass and costs us even more and I don't think marijuana taxes would cover it

#3: not clear on healthcare costs but I think we have it backwards it's people who live old who ultimately cost the most as they get sicker in age in reality the obese heavy smokers and drinkers while they have major problems they tend to die much younger which is actually a savings in the long run

Not advocating that bad habits and dying young is a good thing but from a cost perspectives point of veiw

roadmaster
02-02-2013, 01:48 PM
A state can pass it but the Feds can still put you in jail. The war on drugs is like the war on guns, it doesn't work only to put the small or bottom one in jail.

lynn
02-02-2013, 03:33 PM
Its too profitable to not win the war on drugs then it is to win it.

Disco Stu
02-02-2013, 03:53 PM
Its too profitable to not win the war on drugs then it is to win it.

In what way exactly ?

This nation collectively spends a trillion dollars annually on police jails and courts not to mention what we pay as a society in other ways

Deadwood
02-02-2013, 03:58 PM
Its too profitable to not win the war on drugs then it is to win it.



??????


That make absolutely no sense.

But please, don't try to explain it.

Deadwood
02-02-2013, 04:05 PM
One, there is no "war" on drugs, never has been. Nixon coined the phrase after he had an intense go around with supporters and hippies and peace demonstrations getting out of hand. He did no more than dispatch a whole fleet of Coast Guard cutters to the DEA to cruise the Florida coast. It ended five weeks later when Nixon's buddy, Bebe Rebozzo was left stranded on his yacht on a sand bar off Key Biscayne.

Seizures of contraband at the boarders is estimated to be 1 - 2%. It estimated it costs $121,345 to seize 1 gram of pot.

Taxes from sales are estimated to have a potential for three to five times the income that enforcement represents as outflow.

Hard drugs, you must control. But stop making it a crime. His the manufacturers with fines under the interstate commerce act. When you get fined $1,000 per tablet for crystal meth, you won't be making them in big batches

Guerilla
02-02-2013, 04:26 PM
We should legalize all drugs. It's just a form of social control. You don't like heroin don't do it. Educate others about it. It works; Portugal did it. http://www.alternet.org/story/151635/ten_years_ago_portugal_legalized_all_drugs_--_what_happened_next

Captain Obvious
02-02-2013, 07:09 PM
War on drugs?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Next you'll tell me that illegal aliens are going to be prosecuted.

Trinnity
02-02-2013, 08:52 PM
Can't win the war on drugs unless we're willing to execute people for drug possession, and we are NOT.

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 09:03 PM
Can't win the war on drugs unless we're willing to execute people for drug possession, and we are NOT.
Why would we? That is pretty fascistic don't you think? (And I don't do drugs, so I am not advocating for the lifestyle.)

Chloe
02-02-2013, 09:05 PM
It's hard to justify making something like heroin or cocaine being legal but there is absolutely no reason marijuana should be illegal in my opinion.

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 09:08 PM
It's hard to justify making something like heroin or cocaine being legal but there is absolutely no reason marijuana should be illegal in my opinion.

If it was legal, it could be controlled and monitored. And it would eliminate the crime associated with it. At least from the dealer end of it.

And just think, if lots of your peers started doing heroin, it would make your job prospects after school so much brighter.

GrassrootsConservative
02-02-2013, 09:11 PM
(And I don't do drugs, so I am not advocating for the lifestyle.)

Are you saying that anyone who advocates for decriminalization is obviously some kind of drug addict?

Chloe
02-02-2013, 09:11 PM
If it was legal, it could be controlled and monitored. And it would eliminate the crime associated with it. At least from the dealer end of it.

And just think, if lots of your peers started doing heroin, it would make your job prospects after school so much brighter.

That is very true. Most of them already do pot so that's obviously not doing the job. Going from an A student in high school to a B-C student in college I need all the help I can get.

Chloe
02-02-2013, 09:15 PM
Are you saying that anyone who advocates for decriminalization is obviously some kind of drug addict?

A little paranoid aren't we :)

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 09:15 PM
Are you saying that anyone who advocates for decriminalization is obviously some kind of drug addict?

I advocate for decriminalization.

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 09:21 PM
That is very true. Most of them already do pot so that's obviously not doing the job. Going from an A student in high school to a B-C student in college I need all the help I can get.

:cry: What!! You need time management skills.

If I went to college after high school I would have failed big time. I graduated high school at the solid 25% of my class. :shocked: After 4 years in airborne infantry I decided that I knew that I didn't want to live in the mud. Plus got broken. So when I went to college I got 2 Cs 1 B and the rest As. Law school a bit lower, but it was Tulane and full of really smart people. Still graduated with honors.

Buck up Chloe. Study!

About time management. I went to college and law school in New Orleans. There was a happy hour every day of the week. So I dedicated time for study, and time for happy hours. And if I strayed from the plan, I adjusted and made it all even. You can do it too!

roadmaster
02-02-2013, 09:27 PM
I advocate for decriminalization.

I do too as far as pot is concerned. Don't smoke it but many kids mess-up and I don't think it should hurt them getting an education or field that even convicted of this exempts them. Most certainly don't want them in with real criminals. Now the hard enslaved drugs a different story.

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 09:38 PM
I do too as far as pot is concerned. Don't smoke it but many kids mess-up and I don't think it should hurt them getting an education or field that even convicted of this exempts them. Most certainly don't want them in with real criminals. Now the hard enslaved drugs a different story.

Yes, the hard drugs are an issue. But criminalizing them creates a back market that brings lots of crime and money for crooks.

Chloe
02-02-2013, 09:40 PM
:cry: What!! You need time management skills.

If I went to college after high school I would have failed big time. I graduated high school at the solid 25% of my class. :shocked: After 4 years in airborne infantry I decided that I knew that I didn't want to live in the mud. Plus got broken. So when I went to college I got 2 Cs 1 B and the rest As. Law school a bit lower, but it was Tulane and full of really smart people. Still graduated with honors.

Buck up Chloe. Study!

About time management. I went to college and law school in New Orleans. There was a happy hour every day of the week. So I dedicated time for study, and time for happy hours. And if I strayed from the plan, I adjusted and made it all even. You can do it too!

I'll improve it. My freshman year was just a big shock for me even though my high school is a really good college prep school and I did all the transition classes and so on but I just couldn't adjust for some reason, and so now it's pretty much just trying to inch everything back up.

Disco Stu
02-02-2013, 09:43 PM
If it was legal, it could be controlled and monitored. And it would eliminate the crime associated with it. At least from the dealer end of it.

And just think, if lots of your peers started doing heroin, it would make your job prospects after school so much brighter.

I think it could be the basis of a new economy with massive growth potential

Whether we like it or not & law or no law fact is these substances are easily available and we can't stop it despite our best efforts

By legitimized industry we take it out of the hands of criminals and turn it over to regulated licensed buisness

This will leads to millions of jobs everything from farmers processing plants transportation and retail

The mass mechanization of the process would drop the price down to dollars a hit meaning the users wont have to steal all the time it's estimated a single crackhaed commits two hundred dollars per larceny each day to give you a picture

Being regulate like other industries quality control measures will protect from the costs of bad batches like when fentanyl is used to cut street heroin

Excise taxes could be applied and the current revenue we spend on enforcement could be either eliminated from budget or reallocate to other projects while the new industry generate tax revenues

Honestly can you argue with that despite moral objection

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 09:51 PM
I think it could be the basis of a new economy with massive growth potential

Whether we like it or not & law or no law fact is these substances are easily available and we can't stop it despite our best efforts

By legitimized industry we take it out of the hands of criminals and turn it over to regulated licensed buisness

This will leads to millions of jobs everything from farmers processing plants transportation and retail

The mass mechanization of the process would drop the price down to dollars a hit meaning the users wont have to steal all the time it's estimated a single crackhaed commits two hundred dollars per larceny each day to give you a picture

Being regulate like other industries quality control measures will protect from the costs of bad batches like when fentanyl is used to cut street heroin

Excise taxes could be applied and the current revenue we spend on enforcement could be either eliminated from budget or reallocate to other projects while the new industry generate tax revenues

Honestly can you argue with that despite moral objection

Agreed.

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 09:52 PM
I'll improve it. My freshman year was just a big shock for me even though my high school is a really good college prep school and I did all the transition classes and so on but I just couldn't adjust for some reason, and so now it's pretty much just trying to inch everything back up.

Something makes me think that your distractions are much more innocent than mine were. :huh:

Chloe
02-02-2013, 09:54 PM
Something makes me think that your distractions are much more innocent than mine were. :huh:

Well yeah i'm sure. You were out shooting at people.

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 09:55 PM
Well yeah i'm sure. You were out shooting at people.

Nobody who wasn't trying to kill me first....

Chloe
02-02-2013, 09:56 PM
Nobody who wasn't trying to kill me first....

That's what they all say i'm sure. What came first the chicken or the egg?

GrassrootsConservative
02-02-2013, 10:02 PM
That's what they all say i'm sure. What came first the chicken or the egg?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg


The theory of evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution) states that species change over time via mutation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation) and sexual reproduction. Since DNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA) (deoxyribonucleic acid) can be modified only before birth, it can be argued that a mutation must have taken place at conception or within an egg such that a creature similar to a chicken, but not a chicken, laid the first chicken eggs. These eggs then hatched into chickens that inbred to produce a living population.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-CNN-13)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg#cite_note-HSW-14) Hence, in this light, both the chicken and the structure of its egg evolved simultaneously from birds that, while not of the same exact species, gradually became more and more like present-day chickens over time.

Chloe
02-02-2013, 10:09 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg

i'm trying to think of a way to make a joke out of that but it's not easy.

Peter you can choose between being the chicken like thing that came from the mutated egg or you can be the inbred chicken. Either way i'm sure you'd shoot and kill the one you don't choose.

Captain Obvious
02-02-2013, 10:20 PM
i'm trying to think of a way to make a joke out of that but it's not easy.

Peter you can choose between being the chicken like thing that came from the mutated egg or you can be the inbred chicken. Either way i'm sure you'd shoot and kill the one you don't choose.

Make is sexual.

What came first? There's an easy one.

There's a better punchline in there also.

GrassrootsConservative
02-02-2013, 10:23 PM
i'm trying to think of a way to make a joke out of that but it's not easy.

Peter you can choose between being the chicken like thing that came from the mutated egg or you can be the inbred chicken. Either way i'm sure you'd shoot and kill the one you don't choose.

If you can't come up with a joke about either "inbred chickens" or even just the fact that wikipedia has a whole page dedicated to the serious study of "Which came first the chicken or the egg" then you're trying way too hard.

Chloe
02-02-2013, 10:24 PM
Make is sexual.

What came first? There's an easy one.

There's a better punchline in there also.

I'm not going to make a sexual joke towards Peter or anybody on here. I'm sure there is a great punchline, and I am trying very hard not to think of one and put it down, but i'm not THAT brave or inappropriate.

Chloe
02-02-2013, 10:24 PM
If you can't come up with a joke about either "inbred chickens" or even just the fact that wikipedia has a whole page dedicated to the serious study of "Which came first the chicken or the egg" then you're trying way too hard.

There are a lot of jokes to be made, which is the hard part.

Captain Obvious
02-02-2013, 10:26 PM
I'm not going to make a sexual joke towards Peter or anybody on here. I'm sure there is a great punchline, and I am trying very hard not to think of one and put it down, but i'm not THAT brave or inappropriate.

You kinda remind me of my wife. She was a "nice girl" when I met her. Still is to a degree but I've corrupted her a bit.

Dr. Who
02-02-2013, 11:57 PM
We should legalize all drugs. It's just a form of social control. You don't like heroin don't do it. Educate others about it. It works; Portugal did it. http://www.alternet.org/story/151635/ten_years_ago_portugal_legalized_all_drugs_--_what_happened_next
Agreed. Let's face it, half of the attractiveness of drugs, when it comes to young adults, is the very fact that they are illegal. Curiousity. For adults, some simply like to choose their own recreational drug - some use alcohol, some use marijuana, some use other things. Legalizing drugs would probably eliminate the proliferation of home made and seriously unsafe drugs. If the pharmaceutical industry put their collective resources into manufacturing recreational drugs with a fairly guaranteed type of "high"and no deliterious addictive side effects, they would be far more popular than the russian roulette played out on the streets now. Plus you would have taxation and regulation and the elimination of the criminal side of the problem. The money gained from the lucrative taxation could help toward treating the existing drug addicts.

Ivan88
02-04-2013, 06:54 PM
The "WAR ON DRUGS" is really war on the competition. Those in prison for drug merchandizing were giving the super-rich too much competition in their drug racket.

If it were not for various "wars" instituted by various violence loving US regimes, there would not be a drug problem.

In 1900, the USA invaded China and bombed the Capital, and looted it in order to force the Chinese into accepting the super-rich drug merchants, and destabilized China for 70 years or so.

Shouldn't we get a little pay back?

Ask yourself why the US military is protecting opium fields in Afghanistan. Course, most USers can't ask themselves anything, because they already know everything from TV.

Dr. Who
02-04-2013, 07:05 PM
The "WAR ON DRUGS" is really war on the competition. Those in prison for drug merchandizing were giving the super-rich too much competition in their drug racket.

If it were not for various "wars" instituted by various violence loving US regimes, there would not be a drug problem.

In 1900, the USA invaded China and bombed the Capital, and looted it in order to force the Chinese into accepting the super-rich drug merchants, and destabilized China for 70 years or so.

Shouldn't we get a little pay back?

Ask yourself why the US military is protecting opium fields in Afghanistan. Course, most USers can't ask themselves anything, because they already know everything from TV.

Everyone knows the biggest drug merchant on the planet has historically been the CIA. It is the currency of choice in nefarious black ops.

lynn
02-05-2013, 12:20 PM
The "WAR ON DRUGS" is really war on the competition. Those in prison for drug merchandizing were giving the super-rich too much competition in their drug racket.

If it were not for various "wars" instituted by various violence loving US regimes, there would not be a drug problem.

In 1900, the USA invaded China and bombed the Capital, and looted it in order to force the Chinese into accepting the super-rich drug merchants, and destabilized China for 70 years or so.

Shouldn't we get a little pay back?

Ask yourself why the US military is protecting opium fields in Afghanistan. Course, most USers can't ask themselves anything, because they already know everything from TV.

They are protecting the opium fields because that is how our government plans on paying the debt we owe to China.

lynn
02-05-2013, 12:25 PM
Agreed. Let's face it, half of the attractiveness of drugs, when it comes to young adults, is the very fact that they are illegal. Curiousity. For adults, some simply like to choose their own recreational drug - some use alcohol, some use marijuana, some use other things. Legalizing drugs would probably eliminate the proliferation of home made and seriously unsafe drugs. If the pharmaceutical industry put their collective resources into manufacturing recreational drugs with a fairly guaranteed type of "high"and no deliterious addictive side effects, they would be far more popular than the russian roulette played out on the streets now. Plus you would have taxation and regulation and the elimination of the criminal side of the problem. The money gained from the lucrative taxation could help toward treating the existing drug addicts.

The won't legalize it because the prisons would lose most of its population, police dept in narcotics would be eliminated, the labs would lose profit from no drug testing, The Feds would lose profit since they couldn't confiscate anymore. There are a ton of reasons why they will not make it legal. One thing for sure is they don't care about the health of its public and drug addicts are a great source for keeping them in jobs.

Dr. Who
02-05-2013, 06:43 PM
The won't legalize it because the prisons would lose most of its population, police dept in narcotics would be eliminated, the labs would lose profit from no drug testing, The Feds would lose profit since they couldn't confiscate anymore. There are a ton of reasons why they will not make it legal. One thing for sure is they don't care about the health of its public and drug addicts are a great source for keeping them in jobs.
There must be some sort of counterintuitive reason!