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nathanbforrest45
03-08-2019, 05:24 PM
I don't know who actually wrote this, it came to me in an email but it certainly makes a lot of sense







Professionally, Jack was head of the Department of Education at Eastern Michigan University as well as a prolific author of numerous books, most of which were on the topic of Education and the Government role therein.

This is the last of his works: Civil War

How do civil wars happen?

Two or more sides disagree on who runs the country. And they can't settle the question through elections because they don't even agree that elections are how you decide who's in charge. That's the basic issue here. Who decides who runs the country? When you hate each other but accept the election results, you have a country.

When you stop accepting election results, you have a countdown to a civil war.

The Mueller investigation is about removing President Trump from office and overturning the results of an election. We all know that. But it's not the first time they've done this. The first time a Republican president was elected this century, they said he didn't really win. The Supreme Court gave him the election. There's a pattern here.

What do sure odds of the Democrats rejecting the next Republican president really mean? It means they don't accept the results of any election that they don't win It means they don't believe that transfers of power in this country are determined by elections. That's a civil war.

There's no shooting. At least not unless you count the attempt to kill a bunch of Republicans at a charity baseball game practice. But the Democrats have rejected our system of government.

This isn't dissent. It's not disagreement. You can hate the other party. You can think they're the worst thing that ever happened to the country. But then you work harder to win the next election.

When you consistently reject the results of elections that you don't win, what you want is a dictatorship. Your very own dictatorship .

The only legitimate exercise of power in this country, according to Democrats, is its own. Whenever Republicans exercise power, it's inherently illegitimate. The Democrats lost Congress. They lost the White House. So what did they do? They began trying to run the country through Federal judges and bureaucrats. Every time that a Federal judge issues an order saying that the President of the United States can't scratch his own back without his say so, that's the civil war.

Our system of government is based on the constitution, but that's not the system that runs this country. The Democrat's system is that any part of government that it runs gets total and unlimited power over the country.

If the Democrats are in the White House, then the president can do anything And I mean anything. He can have his own amnesty for illegal aliens. He can fine you for not having health insurance. His power is unlimited. He's a dictator.

But when Republicans get into the White House, suddenly the President can't do anything. He isn't even allowed to undo the illegal alien amnesty that his predecessor illegally invented. A Democrat in the White House has 'discretion' to completely decide every aspect of immigration policy. A Republican doesn't even have the 'discretion' to reverse him. That's how the game is played That's how our country is run. Sad but true, although the left hasn't yet won that particular fight.

When a Democrat is in the White House, states aren't even allowed to enforce immigration law. But when a Republican is in the White House, states can create their own immigration laws. Under Obama, a state wasn't allowed to go to the bathroom without asking permission But under Trump, Jerry Brown can go around saying that California is an independent republic and sign treaties with other countries.

The Constitution has something to say about that.

Whether it's Federal or State, Executive, Legislative or Judiciary, the left moves power around to run the country. If it controls an institution, then that institution is suddenly the supreme power in the land. This is what I call a moving dictatorship.

Donald Trump has caused the Shadow Government to come out of hiding: Professional government is a guild. Like medieval guilds. You can't serve in if you're not a member. If you haven't been indoctrinated into its arcane rituals. If you aren't in the club. And Trump isn't in the club. He brought in a bunch of people who aren't in the club with him.

Now we're seeing what the pros do when amateurs try to walk in on them. They spy on them, they investigate them and they send them to jail. They use the tools of power to bring them down. That's not a free country.

It's not a free country when FBI agents who support Hillary take out an 'insurance policy' against Trump winning the election. It's not a free country when Obama officials engage in massive unmasking of the opposition. It's not a free country when the media responds to the other guy winning by trying to ban the conservative media that supported him from social media. It's not a free country when all of the above collude together to overturn an election because the guy who wasn't supposed to win did.

Have no doubt, we're in a civil war between conservative volunteer government and a leftist Democrat professional government.








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Common Sense
03-08-2019, 06:02 PM
I guess that means Trumps own attorney general whom he nominated is part of the coup. He and many Republicans see the Mueller investigation as legitimate.

Trump supporters sure have embraced a self imposed victim status...and collective amnesia.

nathanbforrest45
03-08-2019, 06:54 PM
That is an interesting point of view. Somewhat mindless in view of the current attempts at unseating a legitimately elected president but interesting none the less

stjames1_53
03-08-2019, 06:55 PM
I guess that means Trumps own attorney general whom he nominated is part of the coup. He and many Republicans see the Mueller investigation as legitimate.

Trump supporters sure have embraced a self imposed victim status...and collective amnesia.

maybe, and maybe not.
What would happen of Trump's appointed AG shut it down? Do you think there would be no blowback? If you do, you are delusional at best. Either way, you liberals aren't happy.
If Mueller doesn't find something, then you'll turn on him.
It's what you do when you can't have it your way. You keep snapping and barking like spoiled children when someone tells them no. Proof? Look at what the Dems want to do. Conduct their own little witch hunt if Mueller fails...........you guys are enough to make me want to puke down your backs and tell you it's snowing.

stjames1_53
03-08-2019, 06:56 PM
I guess that means Trumps own attorney general whom he nominated is part of the coup. He and many Republicans see the Mueller investigation as legitimate.

Trump supporters sure have embraced a self imposed victim status...and collective amnesia.

What part of amnesia are we missing?

Common
03-08-2019, 06:59 PM
I guess that means Trumps own attorney general whom he nominated is part of the coup. He and many Republicans see the Mueller investigation as legitimate.

Trump supporters sure have embraced a self imposed victim status...and collective amnesia.

Hey how ab out Trudypoody Trudeau, and his cabinet quitting on him,over corruption, Hes been doing alot of apologizing to try and keep his job. Your own guy may lose his job before the guy you so much want to lose his, trump

You seem to care more about trump getting busted than your own guy for some reason

Captdon
03-08-2019, 09:02 PM
When Mueller comes out with a report showing nothing on Trump every liberal will find an excuse to reject it. That's all of it.

Common Sense
03-08-2019, 11:03 PM
Lol...

nathanbforrest45
03-09-2019, 05:11 AM
When no reasonable arguments can be found to support your position just LOL. Its always a good fall back.

stjames1_53
03-09-2019, 06:37 AM
When no reasonable arguments can be found to support your position just LOL. Its always a good fall back.

it has become the fallback position for all of our juveniles in here...........it is only relevant to them.

stjames1_53
03-09-2019, 06:46 AM
When no reasonable arguments can be found to support your position just LOL. Its always a good fall back.

I make this prediction. Mueller will be hauled in front of the House Investigation Committee to testify against Trump, after he has found nothing. That'll cost the taxpayer another 4 million or better.
"You just pay for it!!"

stjames1_53
03-09-2019, 06:52 AM
I bet it all of these so-called investigation were paid for out of the Congress' slush fund, it would have been over in 6 months and this would not have proceeded any further.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 09:45 AM
When no reasonable arguments can be found to support your position just LOL. Its always a good fall back.
Do you think the responses to my post were reasonable?

I posted the lol because the responses to my post were funny and none lacked any real substance. They were all just lame insults. Hence the lulz...

nathanbforrest45
03-09-2019, 10:38 AM
Do you think the responses to my post were reasonable?

I posted the lol because the responses to my post were funny and none lacked any real substance. They were all just lame insults. Hence the lulz...
Of course they were reasonable, considering how off the mark your response actually was. There can be no doubt, except for the most highly partisan, there is an attempt in the works to unseat Donald Trump as the duly elected President of the United States. After over two years of "investigation" no wrong doing has been found in the Trump Administration that ties directly to the duties of the Administration but you still have those nutjobs like Maxine Waters screaming for IMPEACHMENT, with the latest transgression being he didn't challenge Kim on the claim he knew nothing about the death of the US hostage. Now we see no less than six committees getting ready to spend millions, if not billions, further "investigating" Donald Trump to try to find something, anything, they can use against him.

Donald Trump is hated by the establishment for the simple reason he is not of the establishment. He is the outsider who joins the country club and is shunned by all the "regular" members. And as for the argument that some of his own party thinks the "investigation" has merit, this only proves what many of us have been claiming for years, there wasn't a dimes worth of difference between the two parties before Trump came along. They were simply socialist and socialist lite. Trump has vowed to change that and they aren't about to let that happen.

And before you claim Donald Trump did not get a majority of the popular vote let me remind you we are not Canada and we don't elect our President based on the popular vote

jet57
03-09-2019, 11:35 AM
That is an interesting point of view. Somewhat mindless in view of the current attempts at unseating a legitimately elected president but interesting none the less

The irony of you saying someone made a mindless post...

"Unseating an elected president". "Civil War": the right is the enemy of this country and wants civil war, just like they did in 1860, so they can rewrite our founding documents into a tyrannical sect of ruling estates and House of Lords, bathing in "economic liberty".

Safety
03-09-2019, 11:44 AM
I see the cadre of hoveround hell’s angels are spotting themselves with the thought of another civil war. Why don’t ya’ll spend your time more conductive to rational human behavior, like finding the nearest store that sells Poligrip.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 11:47 AM
The irony of you saying someone made a mindless post...

"Unseating an elected president". "Civil War": the right is the enemy of this country and wants civil war, just like they did in 1860, so they can rewrite our founding documents into a tyrannical sect of ruling estates and House of Lords, bathing in "economic liberty".
I suppose for someone like you those of us who support and defend the Constitution, our founding document, must seem like monsters.

stjames1_53
03-09-2019, 12:02 PM
The irony of you saying someone made a mindless post...

"Unseating an elected president". "Civil War": the right is the enemy of this country and wants civil war, just like they did in 1860, so they can rewrite our founding documents into a tyrannical sect of ruling estates and House of Lords, bathing in "economic liberty".

rewrote the founding documents? Of course you have a link for that one.

stjames1_53
03-09-2019, 12:04 PM
I see the cadre of hoveround hell’s angels are spotting themselves with the thought of another civil war. Why don’t ya’ll spend your time more conductive to rational human behavior, like finding the nearest store that sells Poligrip.

you're not 12 anymore...............grow up and move out of mom's basement.

Safety
03-09-2019, 12:05 PM
you're not 12 anymore...............grow up and move out of mom's basement.Still projecting I see. Does she still cut the crusts off your sandwiches?

Beta.

Cletus
03-09-2019, 12:15 PM
The irony of you saying someone made a mindless post...

"Unseating an elected president". "Civil War": the right is the enemy of this country and wants civil war, just like they did in 1860, so they can rewrite our founding documents into a tyrannical sect of ruling estates and House of Lords, bathing in "economic liberty".

You have demonstrated little knowledge of the content of any of our "founding documents", so how would you even know if they were rewritten?

jet57
03-09-2019, 12:41 PM
You have demonstrated little knowledge of the content of any of our "founding documents", so how would you even know if they were rewritten?
You don't any idea what you're talking about - yest again - you haven' asked me about "The Founding Documents" in order to discern what I DO know, as they relate to the topic, so you're sitting out on a limb sawing away again.

So - prove - that you know more about the founding documents that I'm wrong on my analysis of the OP.

nathanbforrest45
03-09-2019, 01:33 PM
You don't any idea what you're talking about - yest again - you haven' asked me about "The Founding Documents" in order to discern what I DO know, as they relate to the topic, so you're sitting out on a limb sawing away again.

So - prove - that you know more about the founding documents that I'm wrong on my analysis of the OP.

You don't babble incoherently often, but when you do you set the standard.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 03:00 PM
Of course they were reasonable, considering how off the mark your response actually was. There can be no doubt, except for the most highly partisan, there is an attempt in the works to unseat Donald Trump as the duly elected President of the United States. After over two years of "investigation" no wrong doing has been found in the Trump Administration that ties directly to the duties of the Administration but you still have those nutjobs like Maxine Waters screaming for IMPEACHMENT, with the latest transgression being he didn't challenge Kim on the claim he knew nothing about the death of the US hostage. Now we see no less than six committees getting ready to spend millions, if not billions, further "investigating" Donald Trump to try to find something, anything, they can use against him.

Donald Trump is hated by the establishment for the simple reason he is not of the establishment. He is the outsider who joins the country club and is shunned by all the "regular" members. And as for the argument that some of his own party thinks the "investigation" has merit, this only proves what many of us have been claiming for years, there wasn't a dimes worth of difference between the two parties before Trump came along. They were simply socialist and socialist lite. Trump has vowed to change that and they aren't about to let that happen.

And before you claim Donald Trump did not get a majority of the popular vote let me remind you we are not Canada and we don't elect our President based on the popular vote

I didn't see them as reasonable, but that's ok.

Sorry, but I just don't see a legitimate probe of proven Russian meddling in the election as an attempted coup. Neither do many Republicans and conservatives. Again, including the AG that Trump himself nominated.

Yes, there is resistance among the establishment, Dems and some Republicans. That's normal and largely it's a response to what many perceive as a unqualified and possibly corrupt president and administration.

If you can honestly recall the Obama presidency, you'll remember Republicans vow to impede Obama and the unprecedented obstruction they waged. There were also numerous calls for Obamas impeachment by republicans and conservatives. Not to mention the numerous claims that he was an illegitimate president and was foreign born.

Claiming there has been an attempted coup comes off as a bit hysterical and is just another example of conservatives crying victim. The fact is, Trump is an unpopular president with a penchant for lying and his tenure has been wracked with scandals. There are no unwarranted investigations or a coup attempt or a civil war.

Not sure what Canada has to do with this...beyond the fact that I'm from there.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 03:14 PM
I didn't see them as reasonable, but that's ok.

Sorry, but I just don't see a legitimate probe of proven Russian meddling in the election as an attempted coup. Neither do many Republicans and conservatives. Again, including the AG that Trump himself nominated.

Yes, there is resistance among the establishment, Dems and some Republicans. That's normal and largely it's a response to what many perceive as a unqualified and possibly corrupt president and administration.

If you can honestly recall the Obama presidency, you'll remember Republicans vow to impede Obama and the unprecedented obstruction they waged. There were also numerous calls for Obamas impeachment by republicans and conservatives. Not to mention the numerous claims that he was an illegitimate president and was foreign born.

Claiming there has been an attempted coup comes off as a bit hysterical and is just another example of conservatives crying victim. The fact is, Trump is an unpopular president with a penchant for lying and his tenure has been wracked with scandals. There are no unwarranted investigations or a coup attempt or a civil war.

Not sure what Canada has to do with this...beyond the fact that I'm from there.
The phrase soft coup has come from very respected people to include Victor Davis Hanson, a classicist from Stanford. He compares modern political issues and problems with those experienced in ancient Rome and Greece. His conclusion is that the attacks on Trump is classical Rome and Greece. :wink:

nathanbforrest45
03-09-2019, 03:21 PM
I didn't see them as reasonable, but that's ok.

Sorry, but I just don't see a legitimate probe of proven Russian meddling in the election as an attempted coup. Neither do many Republicans and conservatives. Again, including the AG that Trump himself nominated.

Yes, there is resistance among the establishment, Dems and some Republicans. That's normal and largely it's a response to what many perceive as a unqualified and possibly corrupt president and administration.

If you can honestly recall the Obama presidency, you'll remember Republicans vow to impede Obama and the unprecedented obstruction they waged. There were also numerous calls for Obamas impeachment by republicans and conservatives. Not to mention the numerous claims that he was an illegitimate president and was foreign born.

Claiming there has been an attempted coup comes off as a bit hysterical and is just another example of conservatives crying victim. The fact is, Trump is an unpopular president with a penchant for lying and his tenure has been wracked with scandals. There are no unwarranted investigations or a coup attempt or a civil war.

Not sure what Canada has to do with this...beyond the fact that I'm from there.

Oh Please, poor little Obama and the pathetic issues he faced. There wasn't much that he wanted that was obstructed. His economy killing Obamacare sailed through Congress with support from both sides of the aisle. There was a legitimate concern when he first ran regarding his status as a citizen. That went away as an issue almost immediately. And I don't recall anyone of substance calling for his impeachment because frankly there was no cause for impeachment. There is no cause for Trump's impeachment either but there are several in Congress who are constantly attempting to file a bill of impeachment

Trump is not an unpopular President to those of us that matter, the voters.

As far as Canada is concerned, I wasn't sure if you were aware of how our president was elected, its certainly brought up often enough that he didn't win the popular vote.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 03:21 PM
The phrase soft coup has come from very respected people to include Victor Davis Hanson, a classicist from Stanford. He compares modern political issues and problems with those experienced in ancient Rome and Greece. His conclusion is that the attacks on Trump is classical Rome and Greece. :wink:
That's all well and good. Some very respected people believe in psychics and ghosts. It doesn't mean they're factual.

Hanson may be well respected, but he is a conservative.

nathanbforrest45
03-09-2019, 03:25 PM
That's all well and good. Some very respected people believe in psychics and ghosts. It doesn't mean they're factual.

Hanson may be well respected, but he is a conservative.
Right,and as a conservative his ideas and writings are totally without merit because they don't toe the leftest line. We get it.

This is the very reason we are headed for a civil war in this country. You don't have to worry unless you want to become a mercenary for Liberalism

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 03:28 PM
That's all well and good. Some very respected people believe in psychics and ghosts. It doesn't mean they're factual.

Hanson may be well respected, but he is a conservative.
Ghosts are real. :smiley:

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 03:32 PM
Oh Please, poor little Obama and the pathetic issues he faced. There wasn't much that he wanted that was obstructed. His economy killing Obamacare sailed through Congress with support from both sides of the aisle. There was a legitimate concern when he first ran regarding his status as a citizen. That went away as an issue almost immediately. And I don't recall anyone of substance calling for his impeachment because frankly there was no cause for impeachment. There is no cause for Trump's impeachment either but there are several in Congress who are constantly attempting to file a bill of impeachment

Trump is not an unpopular President to those of us that matter, the voters.

As far as Canada is concerned, I wasn't sure if you were aware of how our president was elected, its certainly brought up often enough that he didn't win the popular vote.

The reality is Obama faced unprecedented obstruction. More than any president in history.

"Some concern" over his citizenship? That's laughable. Trump continued his claims that Obama was born in Kenya throughout Obamas tenure. He launched his political career on it.

Trump is indeed an unpopular president among the electorate. Yes, I'm not US citizen and I don't vote in the US, but I'm free to discuss politics on this message board and I'm well aware of how the president is elected. Constantly bringing up Canada isn't going to get you anywhere. I'm not the topic.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 03:37 PM
Right,and as a conservative his ideas and writings are totally without merit because they don't toe the leftest line. We get it.

This is the very reason we are headed for a civil war in this country. You don't have to worry unless you want to become a mercenary for Liberalism
I said he was respected. I just understand that his political position influences his opinions.

If that pushes people to even consider a civil war, then they're out to lunch or just looking for an excuse.

I would have to worry about an American civil war. It would have a devastating effect on both of our economies, my personal income and business. Not to mention the danger faced by my family and friends in the US. Plus I enjoy traveling there. Heading to Charleston SC next week. ;)

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 03:39 PM
I didn't see them as reasonable, but that's ok.
Sorry, but I just don't see a legitimate probe of proven Russian meddling in the election as an attempted coup. Neither do many Republicans and conservatives. Again, including the AG that Trump himself nominated.
It was never legitimate. It was based on lies known to be lies. It was a coup attempt then. The Nadler crime spree is a coup attempt now.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 03:44 PM
It was never legitimate. It was based on lies known to be lies. It was a coup attempt then. The Nadler crime spree is a coup attempt now.
Do you think Russia never interfered in the election?

You can can call it a coup if you wish. It does a disservice to those who would face an actual coup and frankly it comes off a chicken little...but you can call it what you wish.

There are no illegal or unjustified investigations. The current investigations numerous indictments prove that.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 03:48 PM
Do you think Russia never interfered in the election?
Yes. The Russians colluded with the DNC and Crooked Hillary. Why do you ask?

You can can call it a coup if you wish. It does a disservice to those who would face an actual coup and frankly it comes off a chicken little...but you can call it what you wish.
I call it a coup attempt because the first coup attempt and Nadler's current effort are both efforts, illegitimate efforts, to steal an election.

There are no illegal or unjustified investigations. The current investigations numerous indictments prove that.
Of course, they are illegitimate. We don't provide prosecutors lists of names, give them unlimited resources and tell them to go find or manufacture crimes. That is tyrannical, Stalinist, un-American, and perhaps un-Canadian.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 03:53 PM
Yes. The Russians colluded with the DNC and Crooked Hillary. Why do you ask?

I call it a coup attempt because the first coup attempt and Nadler's current effort are both efforts, illegitimate efforts, to steal an election.

Of course, they are illegitimate. We don't provide prosecutors lists of names, give them unlimited resources and tell them to go find or manufacture crimes. That is tyrannical, Stalinist, un-American, and perhaps un-Canadian.
Manufactured crimes? Such as?

What evidence do you have that Russia colluded with the DNC? Why would they hack them then? And why would they create a propaganda campaign designed to discredit the Dems and spread false information about Clinton?

Safety
03-09-2019, 04:01 PM
The reality is Obama faced unprecedented obstruction. More than any president in history.

"Some concern" over his citizenship? That's laughable. Trump continued his claims that Obama was born in Kenya throughout Obamas tenure. He launched his political career on it.

Trump is indeed an unpopular president among the electorate. Yes, I'm not US citizen and I don't vote in the US, but I'm free to discuss politics on this message board and I'm well aware of how the president is elected. Constantly bringing up Canada isn't going to get you anywhere. I'm not the topic.It all boils down to nobody expected Trump to win, especially Trump. That is why he never bothered to care about Russia helping him, or his campaign manager giving up his ass to Russia.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:01 PM
Yes. The Russians colluded with the DNC and Crooked Hillary. Why do you ask?


What evidence do you have that Russia colluded with the DNC?
The wholly made up Steele dossier was bought and paid for by Crooked Hilary and the DNC. The co-authors were Russian disinformation specialists, contacted for that purpose by the disreputable Steele.


Why would they hack them then? And why would they create a propaganda campaign designed to discredit the Dems and spread false information about Clinton?
A couple of things. There is no evidence the DNC server(s) was/were hacked. It is more likely Seth Rich used a USB stick to download emails to give to WikiLeaks. Of course, he was "Seth Riched" as a warning to others.
The bulk of the Russian influence efforts were aimed at both candidates plus others.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 04:11 PM
Do you think Russia never interfered in the election?

You can can call it a coup if you wish. It does a disservice to those who would face an actual coup and frankly it comes off a chicken little...but you can call it what you wish.

There are no illegal or unjustified investigations. The current investigations numerous indictments prove that.
Russia has interfered with US elections since the early 1900s.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:11 PM
Yes. The Russians colluded with the DNC and Crooked Hillary. Why do you ask?

The wholly made up Steele dossier was bought and paid for by Crooked Hilary and the DNC. The co-authors were Russian disinformation specialists, contacted for that purpose by the disreputable Steele.


A couple of things. There is no evidence the DNC server(s) was/were hacked. It is more likely Seth Rich used a USB stick to download emails to give to WikiLeaks. Of course, he was "Seth Riched" as a warning to others.
The bulk of the Russian influence efforts were aimed at both candidates plus others.

The Steele dossier was originally contracted by a conservative group. The veracity of its contents is certainly debatable. Regardless, it and other evidence was enough to warrant an investigation. That investigation has proven Russian interference and an elaborate propaganda campaign.

That campaign was multifaceted and designed to sow discord, further divide, discourage voting and indeed it was biased towards supporting Trump and discrediting Clinton.

I'm not and have not claimed that Trump colluded with them to do so, but there is evidence to suggest some in the Trump campaign had connections to Russians and lied or misrepresented those connections when questioned by authorities.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:12 PM
It all boils down to nobody expected Trump to win, especially Trump. That is why he never bothered to care about Russia helping him, or his campaign manager giving up his ass to Russia.
I smile at how easily you are led by the nose. Candidate Trump was so sure he was going to lose he did up to five rallies each day while broke-brained Crooked Hillary did up to two per week. He was drawing crowds of potential voters of up to twenty thousand. She was drawing crowds of up to twenty. Of course fourteen of those were her own staffers.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:14 PM
Russia has interfered with US elections since the early 1900s.
True, but not to this degree...and not as one sidedly as in 2016. At least not to my knowledge.

Just because they've done so in the past is no reason not to investigate the latest attempt.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:16 PM
It all boils down to nobody expected Trump to win, especially Trump. That is why he never bothered to care about Russia helping him, or his campaign manager giving up his ass to Russia.
It's been suggested by those close to Trump that he didn't expect to win. Others have suggested his plan was to start a media empire based on resistance to Hillary and the Dems.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:18 PM
The Steele dossier was originally contracted by a conservative group.
Nonsense.


The veracity of its contents is certainly debatable. Regardless, it and other evidence was enough to warrant an investigation.
There is no debate. It was wholly made up. The thugs, including that dead son of a bitch John McCain (thank goodness he is dead), the AG, Rosenstein, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Baker, Brennan, all of them knew it was a lie.


That investigation has proven Russian interference and an elaborate propaganda campaign.
interesting, but not relevant.

That campaign was multifaceted and designed to sow discord, further divide, discourage voting and indeed it was biased towards supporting Trump and discrediting Clinton.
We disagree. It is not relevant in any event.

I'm not and have not claimed that Trump colluded with them to do so, but there is evidence to suggest some in the Trump campaign had connections to Russians and lied or misrepresented those connections when questioned by authorities.
Mueller and his 17 angry Democrats were concealing their own crimes. Nothing more.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 04:18 PM
The Steele dossier was originally contracted by a conservative group. The veracity of its contents is certainly debatable. Regardless, it and other evidence was enough to warrant an investigation. That investigation has proven Russian interference and an elaborate propaganda campaign.

That campaign was multifaceted and designed to sow discord, further divide, discourage voting and indeed it was biased towards supporting Trump and discrediting Clinton.

I'm not and have not claimed that Trump colluded with them to do so, but there is evidence to suggest some in the Trump campaign had connections to Russians and lied or misrepresented those connections when questioned by authorities.

The only reason the Steele dossier was given credence by the FISA court was because the FBI failed to disclose that it was opposition research.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:20 PM
True, but not to this degree...and not as one sidedly as in 2016. At least not to my knowledge.

Just because they've done so in the past is no reason not to investigate the latest attempt.
Fine. Investigate broke brained Crooked Hillary and the DNC. They colluded with the Brits and the Russians. The Trump team did not.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 04:20 PM
True, but not to this degree...and not as one sidedly as in 2016. At least not to my knowledge.

Just because they've done so in the past is no reason not to investigate the latest attempt.

Russia's interference in the 2016 elections were bipartisan. They attacked both sides. They organized rallies for both sides, often for the same event.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:21 PM
It's been suggested by those close to Trump that he didn't expect to win. Others have suggested his plan was to start a media empire based on resistance to Hillary and the Dems.
Sure. And that is why Trump ran circles around the broken down drunk, Crooked Hillary, day after day after day.

Safety
03-09-2019, 04:27 PM
I smile at how easily you are led by the nose. Candidate Trump was so sure he was going to lose he did up to five rallies each day while broke-brained Crooked Hillary did up to two per week. He was drawing crowds of potential voters of up to twenty thousand. She was drawing crowds of up to twenty. Of course fourteen of those were her own staffers.

Do you also see unicorns prancing around in that dream you're having?

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:30 PM
Nonsense.


There is no debate. It was wholly made up. The thugs, including that dead son of a bitch John McCain (thank goodness he is dead), the AG, Rosenstein, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Baker, Brennan, all of them knew it was a lie.


interesting, but not relevant.

We disagree. It is not relevant in any event.

Mueller and his 17 angry Democrats were concealing their own crimes. Nothing more.

The Steele dossier was commissioned by the Washington Free Beacon. It was later funded by the Clinton campaign and the DNC. Some elements of the dossier have been proven as accurate, while other elements have not been proven and are suspected to be false.

Mueller is a widely respected figure, is a Republican, is considered a "Boy Scout" around Washington and is respected by Attorney General Barr who was nominated by Trump.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:32 PM
Do you also see unicorns prancing around in that dream you're having?
Einhorns?

I cannot help that you know so little. I try to educate you. If you had more talent you would have learned something useful. But you don't.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 04:32 PM
The Steele dossier was commissioned by the Washington Free Beacon. It was later funded by the Clinton campaign and the DNC. Some elements of the dossier have been proven as accurate, while other elements have not been proven and are suspected to be false.

Mueller is a widely respected figure, is a Republican, is considered a "Boy Scout" around Washington and is respected by Attorney General Barr who was nominated by Trump.
Why did Mueller allow FBI agents to lie to the FISA court?

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:33 PM
The Steele dossier was commissioned by the Washington Free Beacon. It was later funded by the Clinton campaign and the DNC. Some elements of the dossier have been proven as accurate, while other elements have not been proven and are suspected to be false.

Mueller is a widely respected figure, is a Republican, is considered a "Boy Scout" around Washington and is respected by Attorney General Barr who was nominated by Trump.
You err.

Mueller and his team of angry Democrats are thugs. This is a criminal conspiracy to cover up spying on an American presidential candidate by the Democrats.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:36 PM
The Steele dossier was commissioned by the Washington Free Beacon.
Progressives frequently err.

The Washington Free Beacon did not bankroll the Steele dossier, a highly dubious work of opposition research alleging the Russians have compromising personal and financial information on Donald Trump.

Rather, the conservative newsroom hired the same research firm that later created it, Fusion GPS, in 2016 to investigate Trump and other Republican candidates during the GOP primaries.
After Trump had won the nomination, the Free Beacon dropped the project. It was at that point that Democratic operatives swooped in, bringing along with them former British spy Christopher Steele. It is from Steele’s work that we get all this Russia business.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/once-more-for-good-measure-conservatives-didnt-fund-the-steele-dossier

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:38 PM
Russia's interference in the 2016 elections were bipartisan. They attacked both sides. They organized rallies for both sides, often for the same event.
Not exactly. The interference was intended to further divide the nation, create confusion and conflict and as the Senate report stated, it favoured Trump over Clinton.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/12/17/18144523/russia-senate-report-african-american-ira-clinton-instagram

"1) Russia favored Trump over ClintonThe IRA’s content unquestionably favored Trump over his opponent, supporting him as early as the primaries. Pro-Trump content featured mainly on conservative pages and rarely appeared in left-leaning circles.
There are other pieces of evidence. One is that Russia aimed to stop people from voting, and lower turnout historically favors Republican candidates (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-republicans-really-have-a-big-turnout-advantage-in-midterms/). Another shows that the IRA disparaged Clinton in nearly all of its social media pages on every platform, regardless of whether the page targeted conservatives, liberals, or racial and ethnic groups."

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 04:39 PM
Not exactly. The interference was intended to further divide the nation, create confusion and conflict and as the Senate report stated, it favoured Trump over Clinton.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/12/17/18144523/russia-senate-report-african-american-ira-clinton-instagram

"1) Russia favored Trump over Clinton

The IRA’s content unquestionably favored Trump over his opponent, supporting him as early as the primaries. Pro-Trump content featured mainly on conservative pages and rarely appeared in left-leaning circles.
There are other pieces of evidence. One is that Russia aimed to stop people from voting, and lower turnout historically favors Republican candidates (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-republicans-really-have-a-big-turnout-advantage-in-midterms/). Another shows that the IRA disparaged Clinton in nearly all of its social media pages on every platform, regardless of whether the page targeted conservatives, liberals, or racial and ethnic groups."
I don't know the balance was, but Russia worked both sides.


And yes, the goal was to create doubt about the integrity of US elections. With the help of the dems and MSM it worked.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:40 PM
Not exactly. The interference was intended to further divide the nation, create confusion and conflict and as the Senate report stated, it favoured Trump over Clinton.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/12/17/18144523/russia-senate-report-african-american-ira-clinton-instagram

"1) Russia favored Trump over Clinton

The IRA’s content unquestionably favored Trump over his opponent, supporting him as early as the primaries. Pro-Trump content featured mainly on conservative pages and rarely appeared in left-leaning circles.
There are other pieces of evidence. One is that Russia aimed to stop people from voting, and lower turnout historically favors Republican candidates (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-republicans-really-have-a-big-turnout-advantage-in-midterms/). Another shows that the IRA disparaged Clinton in nearly all of its social media pages on every platform, regardless of whether the page targeted conservatives, liberals, or racial and ethnic groups."
None of this makes any difference. The American enemedia did far more harm than the Russians could possibly have done. Let's investigate the hell out of them. Or better still bankrupt them.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:41 PM
Progressives frequently err.

The Washington Free Beacon did not bankroll the Steele dossier, a highly dubious work of opposition research alleging the Russians have compromising personal and financial information on Donald Trump.

Rather, the conservative newsroom hired the same research firm that later created it, Fusion GPS, in 2016 to investigate Trump and other Republican candidates during the GOP primaries.
After Trump had won the nomination, the Free Beacon dropped the project. It was at that point that Democratic operatives swooped in, bringing along with them former British spy Christopher Steele. It is from Steele’s work that we get all this Russia business.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/once-more-for-good-measure-conservatives-didnt-fund-the-steele-dossier
That's an opinion piece from a conservative paper.

The Washington Free Beacon did indeed originally commison Fusion to dig up dirt of Trump.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:44 PM
I don't know the balance was, but Russia worked both sides.


And yes, the goal was to create doubt about the integrity of US elections. With the help of the dems and MSM it worked.

The Senate report is quite clear, the Russian propaganda favoured Clinton over Trump. It also targeted African Americans and tried to dissuade them from voting.

The goal was to sew discord and also to discredit Clinton. The attacks were one sided in favour of Trump. That's just a fact.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:45 PM
That's an opinion piece from a conservative paper.

The Washington Free Beacon did indeed originally commison Fusion to dig up dirt of Trump.
Why not just admit you are prone to lying on this matter?

This is what you wrote: "The Steele dossier was commissioned by the Washington Free Beacon."
I showed you your error. You persist. In my opinion, you have moved from error to lie.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 04:48 PM
The Senate report is quite clear, the Russian propaganda favoured Clinton over Trump. It also targeted African Americans and tried to dissuade them from voting.

The goal was to sew discord and also to discredit Clinton. The attacks were one sided in favour of Trump. That's just a fact.
Who cares?

That has nothing to do with the coup attempt. It has nothing to do with the criminal conspiracy from the top of the Obama regime, through the DOJ and into the FBI to conceal the criminal activities of the US intel community, the Obama Regime, the DOJ, the FBI, and the FISA judges. I haven't even mentioned the criminal conspiracy with the Brits and probably others to spy on Americans.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 04:48 PM
The Senate report is quite clear, the Russian propaganda favoured Clinton over Trump. It also targeted African Americans and tried to dissuade them from voting.

The goal was to sew discord and also to discredit Clinton. The attacks were one sided in favour of Trump. That's just a fact.
Russians organized opposition to both sides. Perhaps more effort was anti-Clinton. So what? The goal was to cast doubt on the fidelity of the election process. It worked.

Obama was more blatant in the last elections in Israel.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:51 PM
Why did Mueller allow FBI agents to lie to the FISA court?

The Nunes memo illustrates that the FBI did not rely solely on the Steele dossier to acquire its warrants. It's possible the FBI omitted facts in securing the warrants, but to conclude that some nefarious plot was afoot is a leap.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:56 PM
Russians organized opposition to both sides. Perhaps more effort was anti-Clinton. So what? The goal was to cast doubt on the fidelity of the election process. It worked.

Obama was more blatant in the last elections in Israel.

The goal wasn't really to cast doubt on the election process. It's primary goal was to cast doubt on Clinton. That was made clear in th Senate report.

It's important because we should ask why. Why did the Russians favour Trump and was it simply because they feared Clintons policies or was there collusion?

The US has engaged in this as well. It doesn't make it irrelevant that Russia did.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 04:58 PM
Why not just admit you are prone to lying on this matter?

This is the lie you wrote: "The Steele dossier was commissioned by the Washington Free Beacon."
I showed you your error. You persist. In my opinion, you have moved from error to lie.
I'm not lying. It's been proven that they commissioned it. You offered a partisan opinion piece as evidence they didn't.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 04:59 PM
The goal wasn't really to cast doubt on the election process. It's primary goal was to cast doubt on Clinton. That was made clear in th Senate report.

It's important because we should ask why. Why did the Russians favour Trump and was it simply because they feared Clintons policies or was there collusion?

The US has engaged in this as well. It doesn't make it irrelevant that Russia did.
Only manipulated fools are asking those questions. The crone lost because she was a bad candidate not because of the Russians. I mean seriously...do you honestly believe this?

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 05:00 PM
The Nunes memo illustrates that the FBI did not rely solely on the Steele dossier to acquire its warrants. It's possible the FBI omitted facts in securing the warrants, but to conclude that some nefarious plot was afoot is a leap.
There is no leap. But you do cling tightly to the Democrat lies.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 05:01 PM
This is the lie you wrote: "The Steele dossier was commissioned by the Washington Free Beacon."
I showed you your error. You persist. In my opinion, you have moved from error to lie.

I'm not lying. It's been proven that they commissioned it. You offered a partisan opinion piece as evidence they didn't.
The first time is an error. The second time is a lie.

Safety
03-09-2019, 05:03 PM
I'm not lying. It's been proven that they commissioned it. You offered a partisan opinion piece as evidence they didn't.

Good luck, I see you have awoken the rest of the hacks, stay strong.

jet57
03-09-2019, 05:05 PM
You don't babble incoherently often, but when you do you set the standard.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about - yet again - you haven' asked me about "The Founding Documents" in order to discern what I DO know, as they relate to the topic, so you're sitting out on a limb sawing away again.

So - prove - that you know more about the founding documents that I'm wrong on my analysis of the OP.

stjames1_53
03-09-2019, 05:09 PM
You don't have any idea what you're talking about - yet again - you haven' asked me about "The Founding Documents" in order to discern what I DO know, as they relate to the topic, so you're sitting out on a limb sawing away again.

So - prove - that you know more about the founding documents that I'm wrong on my analysis of the OP.

No, YOU claimed the FF documents have been altered. Now you prove it.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 05:09 PM
Only manipulated fools are asking those questions. The crone lost because she was a bad candidate not because of the Russians. I mean seriously...do you honestly believe this?

Did I say the propaganda and interference was the reason Trump won?

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 05:12 PM
Good luck, I see you have awoken the rest of the hacks, stay strong.
I'm waiting for the "go back to Canada" derps and the "Clinton is a murderer" crowd.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 05:15 PM
Did I say the propaganda and interference was the reason Trump won?
Then who cares? They took a mandatory break after the USSR collapsed but Russia has been "meddling" for the better part of the last 70 years. Why did they favor Trump? Here's my guess: the crone's insane anti-Russian rhetoric.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 05:26 PM
Then who cares? They took a mandatory break after the USSR collapsed but Russia has been "meddling" for the better part of the last 70 years. Why did they favor Trump? Here's my guess: the crone's insane anti-Russian rhetoric.
To me it's troubling that so many could be fooled by such simplistic and obvious propaganda.

I think it's fairly certain that the propaganda campaign did influence some voters. That should trouble everyone. Investigating it could help repell future attempts and lessen the impact of their attacks.

I'm not sure that anti Russian rhetoric is all that isane. Putin's Russia is no friend to the west, freedom and democracy.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 05:28 PM
To me it's troubling that so many could be fooled by such simplistic and obvious propaganda.

I think it's fairly certain that the propaganda campaign did influence some voters. That should trouble everyone. Investigating it could help repell future attempts and lessen the impact of their attacks.

I'm not sure that anti Russian rhetoric is all that isane. Putin's Russia is no friend to the west, freedom and democracy.
None of this is relevant to the coup attempt.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 05:29 PM
None of this is relevant to the coup attempt.

What coup attempt?

Mister D
03-09-2019, 05:36 PM
To me it's troubling that so many could be fooled by such simplistic and obvious propaganda.

I think it's fairly certain that the propaganda campaign did influence some voters. That should trouble everyone. Investigating it could help repell future attempts and lessen the impact of their attacks.

I'm not sure that anti Russian rhetoric is all that isane. Putin's Russia is no friend to the west, freedom and democracy.

Who are these people? Please be specific.

Are you? Who?

Are you a Cold Warrior now, Sense? Is this really the confrontational approach we want with Russia? Seriously?

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 05:37 PM
What coup attempt?
The first coup attempt, of course.

Nadler is running the second coup attempt.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 05:37 PM
None of this is relevant to the coup attempt.
See, coup attempt talk is crazy, deep state conspiracy stuff. Russian social media ads swinging the election? Now that's rational.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 05:44 PM
Who are these people? Please be specific.

Are you? Who?

Are you a Cold Warrior now, Sense? Is this really the confrontational approach we want with Russia? Seriously?

Who was fooled by Russian propaganda? It seems many were fooled and or influenced by their propaganda.

I'm no cold warrior and I understand that an overtly adversarial approach to Russia isn't going to accomplish much. In fact it could help Putin. However, I'm not creating policies and I'm going to call Russia as I see it. Russia can and should be opposed when it conducts itself in the manner it has been conducting itself over the last decade. They shouldn't be provoked, but they also should be countered and criticized.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 05:57 PM
Who was fooled by Russian propaganda? It seems many were fooled and or influenced by their propaganda.

I'm no cold warrior and I understand that an overtly adversarial approach to Russia isn't going to accomplish much. In fact it could help Putin. However, I'm not creating policies and I'm going to call Russia as I see it. Russia can and should be opposed when it conducts itself in the manner it has been conducting itself over the last decade. They shouldn't be provoked, but they also should be countered and criticized.
I know those who lament the crone's demise like to think so but I see no evidence of it and you already admitted that Russian propaganda did not sway the election. Shrug.

Sure. I get that but I think we both know this was all artifice on Hillary's part. It was extremely short sighted and irresponsible while Trump's more rational and pragmatic approach is perceived as evidence of "collusion". I'd laugh it off as "kook stuff" but this is too dangerous.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 06:06 PM
I know those who lament the crone's demise like to think so but I see no evidence of it and you already admitted that Russian propaganda did not sway the election. Shrug.

Sure. I get that but I think we both know this was all artifice on Hillary's part. It was extremely short sighted and irresponsible while Trump's more rational and pragmatic approach is perceived as evidence of "collusion". I'd laugh it off as "kook stuff" but this is too dangerous.

I didn't say the propaganda didn't have an impact. I also haven't claimed the propaganda decided the outcome. The propaganda did indeed have an impact and left unchecked, it could help change the outcome of future elections.

Trump's approach to Russia didn't seem rational and pragmatic. It seemed naive and bordering on cozy.

I find it odd how many people seem to brush off, rationalize or downplay this attack on the US.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 06:11 PM
Who was fooled by Russian propaganda? It seems many were fooled and or influenced by their propaganda.
You just may be the ONLY ONE fooled.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 06:16 PM
I didn't say the propaganda didn't have an impact. I also haven't claimed the propaganda decided the outcome. The propaganda did indeed have an impact and left unchecked, it could help change the outcome of future elections.

Trump's approach to Russia didn't seem rational and pragmatic. It seemed naive and bordering on cozy.

I find it odd how many people seem to brush off, rationalize or downplay this attack on the US.
What impact did it have? Do you know? Does anyone? Do you seriously believe anyone...really I mean a single individual...was leaning Hillary but voted for Trump because of a Russian Facebook ad?

I did but, in any event, it's preferable to the stupid, aggressive and irresponsible rhetoric of a certain crone.

Who are those people? Basically, you are accusing those who disagree with you of downplaying Russian "propaganda" the impact of which is totally unknown but likely dubious.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 06:31 PM
What impact did it have? Do you know? Does anyone? Do you seriously believe anyone...really I mean a single individual...was leaning Hillary but voted for Trump because of a Russian Facebook ad?

I did but, in any event, it's preferable to the stupid, aggressive and irresponsible rhetoric of a certain crone.

Who are those people? Basically, you are accusing those who disagree with you of downplaying Russian "propaganda" the impact of which is totally unknown but likely dubious.
It's hard to quantify the impact on individual voters. In my opinion it may have swayed some independents, on the fence voters and even some Dems. I only assume that because so many of the Russian sponsored talking points have been regurgitated here by so many.

I'm not aware of the goals of the campaign, but it's easy to speculate that they intended to sway some voters, strengthen the views of some voters, cast doubts about Clinton and further divide the nation. It seems like they accomplished that to one degree or another.

It's clear now the propaganda campaign was elaborate and large scale. It was a blatant attempt to effect an election. Successful or not, it's something anyone should be concerned with. I suspect If had benefited Clinton, yours and others reaction would be much different.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 06:42 PM
It's hard to quantify the impact on individual voters. In my opinion it may have swayed some independents, on the fence voters and even some Dems. I only assume that because so many of the Russian sponsored talking points have been regurgitated here by so many.

I'm not aware of the goals of the campaign, but it's easy to speculate that they intended to sway some voters, strengthen the views of some voters, cast doubts about Clinton and further divide the nation. It seems like they accomplished that to one degree or another.

It's clear now the propaganda campaign was elaborate and large scale. It was a blatant attempt to effect an election. Successful or not, it's something anyone should be concerned with. I suspect If had benefited Clinton, yours and others reaction would be much different.

Hard? You mean impossible but what are the reasons for thinking it have any significant effect whatsoever? Let's assume for the sake of argument that Hillary haters were regurgitating "Russian sponsored talking points". So what? They latched onto everything that smeared Hillary. What does this demonstrate? That they might have voted for Clinton?

Clinton did not need any Russian help for any of that. She had so much baggage that we can equate "Russian propaganda" to a travel size tube of toothpaste in the grand scheme of things.

Elaborate but still simplistic and unbelievable that anyone could fall for it? Sir, please...

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 06:43 PM
It's been established that Russia attempted to influence the election through an online propaganda campaign. To what extent it was successful or what impact it had is debatable and I suspect we'll understand more in the future.

It's also been established (through a senate report) that the campaign was designed to hurt Clinton, help Trump, foster division and spread fear. This fact led the intelligence community, the FBI and JD to warrant an investigation. That investigation has indicted several individuals and has further exposed the scope of the campaign.

Those are simply facts. The reaction by Trump supporters has been cries of a witch hunt, a soft coup and downplaying or rationalizing the Russian propaganda campaign and subsequent investigations.

I can only speculate, but I do wonder what would have happened if the tables were turned. If a foreign power engaged in the same type of campaign to benefit Clinton and attack Trump and if Clinton had won the election...what do you suppose the reaction would be by Trump supporters? It's really a rhetorical question because I doubt I'll get an honest answer.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 06:50 PM
SSDD on Russian meddling.

It's also a fact that Hillary lost. What is the relationship between these two facts?

You have to wonder about hypothetical scenarios because there is simply nothing else to say. Russian meddling...so what?

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 06:55 PM
It's been established that Russia attempted to influence the election through an online propaganda campaign. To what extent it was successful or what impact it had is debatable and I suspect we'll understand more in the future.

It's also been established (through a senate report) that the campaign was designed to hurt Clinton, help Trump, foster division and spread fear. This fact led the intelligence community, the FBI and JD to warrant an investigation. That investigation has indicted several individuals and has further exposed the scope of the campaign.

Those are simply facts. The reaction by Trump supporters has been cries of a witch hunt, a soft coup and downplaying or rationalizing the Russian propaganda campaign and subsequent investigations.

I can only speculate, but I do wonder what would have happened if the tables were turned. If a foreign power engaged in the same type of campaign to benefit Clinton and attack Trump and if Clinton had won the election...what do you suppose the reaction would be by Trump supporters? It's really a rhetorical question because I doubt I'll get an honest answer.
I do not believe it is possible for anyone, not even a Democrat or Progressive to be this stupid.

The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate. You are evil.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign. You are evil.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:00 PM
SSDD on Russian meddling.

It's also a fact that Hillary lost. What is the relationship between these two facts?

You have to wonder about hypothetical scenarios because there is simply nothing else to say. Russian meddling...so what?
So what? A country hostile to US interests conducted an attack campaign to sow discord, spread disinformation and effect its election and your response is "so what?". I find that strange.

...and again, I suspect that if the campaign favoured Clinton, you'd be singing a much different tune.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 07:03 PM
So what? A country hostile to US interests conducted an attack campaign to sow discord, spread disinformation and effect its election and your response is "so what?". I find that strange.

...and again, I suspect that if the campaign favoured Clinton, you'd be singing a much different tune.
You do? Read a book on the Cold War.

That is the last refuge of "collusion" enthusiasts.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:03 PM
I do not believe it is possible for anyone, not even a Democrat or Progressive to be this stupid.

The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate. You are evil.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign. You are evil.

Lol...I'm evil?

It's hard not to read your posts like this and laugh.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 07:04 PM
Lol...I'm evil?

It's hard not to read your posts like this and laugh.
I believe you are.

Safety
03-09-2019, 07:06 PM
Lol...I'm evil?

It's hard not to read your posts like this and laugh.Some of the comments from them read better than a fiction novel. I love the easy they want you to quantify the Russian interference, but in the last administration they were able to read outside the box.

It's almost as if trump made them stupid.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 07:11 PM
Some of the comments from them read better than a fiction novel. I love the easy they want you to quantify the Russian interference, but in the last administration they were able to read outside the box.

It's almost as if trump made them stupid.
Does anyone know what this is supposed to mean?

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:12 PM
I believe you are.
Lol...forgive me if I think you're out to lunch then.

You really have a penchant for ridiculously hyperbolic claims and grandiose statements based on a delusional world view. But I don't think you're evil and I don't even hate or dislike you.

I'm not evil. I just have different opinions and views than you. But don't let me stop you from being whacky.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 07:13 PM
Does anyone know what this is supposed to mean?
I read it twice. Then I realized the individual who wrote it lacks talent.

I admit I laughed.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 07:14 PM
Lol...forgive me if I think you're out to lunch then.

You really have a penchant for ridiculously hyperbolic claims and grandiose statements based on a delusional world view. But I don't think you're evil and I don't even hate or dislike you.

I'm not evil. I just have different opinions and views than you. But don't let me stop you from being whacky.
Are these NOT your beliefs?

The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign.


If so you are utterly evil.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:22 PM
Some of the comments from them read better than a fiction novel. I love the easy they want you to quantify the Russian interference, but in the last administration they were able to read outside the box.

It's almost as if trump made them stupid.

That's what's so funny and ironic. They believe shit they've read on facebook and the whole host of fake news stories surrounding Clinton and Obama.

Some of the bigger drama queens here still think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim communist and Hillary is a murdering psychopath because they read it on some shitty blog...but the same people don't believe intelligence community reports by their own government and that the FBI is out to get them and their bloated orange saviour.

It's hard to watch.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:23 PM
Are these NOT your beliefs?

The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign.


If so you are utterly evil.

Lol...you're out of touch with reality.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 07:23 PM
That's what's so funny and ironic. They believe shit they've read on facebook and the whole host of fake news stories surrounding Clinton and Obama.

Some of the bigger drama queens here still think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim communist and Hillary is a murdering psychopath because they read it on some shitty blog...but the same people don't believe intelligence community reports by their own government and that the FBI is out to get them and their bloated orange saviour.

It's hard to watch.
Two peas in a pod. Goofy.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 07:24 PM
Are these NOT your beliefs?

The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign.


If so you are utterly evil.

Lol...you're out of touch with reality.
LOL indeed. You cannot be lived with.

Mister D
03-09-2019, 07:24 PM
That's what's so funny and ironic. They believe $#@! they've read on facebook and the whole host of fake news stories surrounding Clinton and Obama.

Some of the bigger drama queens here still think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim communist and Hillary is a murdering psychopath because they read it on some $#@!ty blog...but the same people don't believe intelligence community reports by their own government and that the FBI is out to get them and their bloated orange saviour.

It's hard to watch.
Who?

Those people would 1) never have voted for Hillary and 2) were dead set on Trump. This doesn't help your case.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:24 PM
Two peas in a pod. Goofy.
Do you think Obama is a Muslim? Simple question. Yes or no.

I doubt you have the integrity to answer.

Safety
03-09-2019, 07:28 PM
That's what's so funny and ironic. They believe shit they've read on facebook and the whole host of fake news stories surrounding Clinton and Obama.

Some of the bigger drama queens here still think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim communist and Hillary is a murdering psychopath because they read it on some shitty blog...but the same people don't believe intelligence community reports by their own government and that the FBI is out to get them and their bloated orange saviour.

It's hard to watch.If you read it and juxtapose the idea that the person was drunk when they typed it, then it makes sense. Otherwise, to think a reasonable person would type stuff like that while being serious, causes one to haz a sad.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:30 PM
Are these NOT your beliefs?

The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign.


If so you are utterly evil.

LOL indeed. You cannot be lived with.

Those are your words and a mischaracterization of what I've stated. Why do you choose to be deceptive?

Evil...lol. That's me...:evil:

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:32 PM
If you read it and juxtapose the idea that the person was drunk when they typed it, then it makes sense. Otherwise, to think a reasonable person would type stuff like that while being serious, causes one to haz a sad.
The accompanying delusions of grandeur and self importance are what make it truly amazing.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 07:35 PM
Do you think Obama is a Muslim? Simple question. Yes or no.

I doubt you have the integrity to answer.
It does not have a yes or no answer.

Is Obama a Muslim? Probably.

More importantly, did he directly aid IslamoNazis in Tehran? Yes.

Did he have Muslim Brotherhood connected people on his staff? I believe so.

Did he bring large numbers of Muslims to the US and give them green cards. Again, I believe so.

Did he say, at one point that if it came down to Islam versus the west he would support Islam? Maybe. Probably.

Why didn't The One ever renounce radical Islamists? Hmmm.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:37 PM
Lol...

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 07:37 PM
Those are your words and a mischaracterization of what I've stated. Why do you choose to be deceptive?

Evil...lol. That's me...:evil:
Mischaracterization? Please correct my error. Here are your beliefs as I understand them.


The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign.

Captdon
03-09-2019, 07:38 PM
Do you think Obama is a Muslim? Simple question. Yes or no.

I doubt you have the integrity to answer.

Well- yes.

Safety
03-09-2019, 07:38 PM
It does not have a yes or no answer.

Is Obama a Muslim? Probably.

More importantly, did he directly aid islamoNazis in Tehran? Yes.

Did he have Muslim Brotherhood connected people on his staff? I believe so.

Did he bring large numbers of Muslims to the US and give them green cards. Again, I believe so.

Did he say, at one point that if it came down to Islam versus the west he would support Islam? Maybe. Probably.

Why didn't The One ever renounce radical Islamists? Hmmm.There's more evidence of trump being a Russian agent then there is of Obama aiding "islomNazis". Jus sayin.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 07:38 PM
Do you think Obama is a Muslim? Simple question. Yes or no.

I doubt you have the integrity to answer.
Why would you doubt my integrity? I am not a progressive, liberal, Democrat, nor Canadian.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 07:38 PM
There's more evidence of trump being a Russian agent then there is of Obama aiding "islomNazis". Jus sayin.
You lack talent. Just saying.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 07:58 PM
Mischaracterization? Please correct my error. Here are your beliefs as I understand them.


The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign.

Well shit, no wonder you're confused. Nowhere in this thread have I stated any of those things.

You can read what I've written in this thread. Or you can continue to lie and misrepresent me.

Safety
03-09-2019, 08:00 PM
You lack talent. Just saying.

Yet, here I am making you and your fellow tiki torch posse upset because your argument keeps getting slapped back.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 08:06 PM
Well shit, no wonder you're confused. Nowhere in this thread have I stated any of those things.

You can read what I've written in this thread. Or you can continue to lie and misrepresent me.
Here is what you meant:
The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign.


What, in your opinion, did I get wrong? Correct my statements.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 08:07 PM
You lack talent. Just saying.

Yet, here I am making you and your fellow tiki torch posse upset because your argument keeps getting slapped back.
You give yourself credit you have not earned. You have become irrelevant.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 08:14 PM
Here is what you meant:
The Russians meddled. Therefore spying on one campaign based on documents made up by the party in power is legitimate.


The Russians meddled. Therefore the Democrats will run a two-year long "investigation" to destroy everyone involved with the Trump campaign.


What, in your opinion, did I get wrong? Correct my statements.
Fine. I'll clarify the blatantly obvious for you.

I've never stated that the justification for the investigation was based on made up documents. I've stated it was based various intelligence sources. See the Nunes memo if you're confused.

I've also never stated that Democrats ran a two year investigation to destroy everyone involved in the Trump campaign. I have stated that Republican Mueller was justified in investigating Russian interference and any people involved based on several intelligence sources and the proven fact Russia attempted to influence the election.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 08:23 PM
Fine. I'll clarify the blatantly obvious for you.

I've never stated that the justification for the investigation was based on made up documents. I've stated it was based various intelligence sources. See the Nunes memo if you're confused.
Right. You continue to sidestep the central issue. The Steele Dosier was a lie made up for the Clinton campaign and used by the coup plotters in the DOJ, FBI and the FISA Court to allow the Federal government, specifically the evil Obama Regime, to spy on an American citizen and political opponent. Come to grips with that.

Everything else is a lie. A democrat/Progressive lie. And you suck it up.

I've also never stated that Democrats ran a two year investigation to destroy everyone involved in the Trump campaign. I have stated that Republican Mueller was justified in investigating Russian interference and any people involved based on several intelligence sources and the proven fact Russia attempted to influence the election.
That was its point. Never again will a Washington outsider try to become the president. And you have no objections to the tyranny. Why the fuck not?

The DOJ and Establishment Republicans/Democrats were NOT justified. The DOJ and FBI KNEW the dossier was a lie. Do you understand that? They knew the document was a lie. And that is why this is a coup and the coup plotters should be killed by the state. Or by the people. I prefer the State do the right thing.

People like you disgust me. You give cover to the coup plotters.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 08:31 PM
Right. You continue to sidestep the central issue. The Steele Dosier was a lie made up for the Clinton campaign and used by the coup plotters in the DOJ, FBI and the FISA Court to allow the Federal government, specifically the evil Obama Regime, to spy on an American citizen and political opponent. Come to grips with that.

Everything else is a lie. A democrat/Progressive lie. And you suck it up.

That was its point. Never again will a Washington outsider try to become the president. And you have no objections to the tyranny. Why the fuck not?

The DOJ and Establishment Republicans/Democrats were NOT justified. The DOJ and FBI KNEW the dossier was a lie. Do you understand that? They knew the document was a lie. And that is why this is a coup and the coup plotters should be killed by the state. Or by the people. I prefer the State do the right thing.

People like you disgust me. You give cover to the coup plotters.

You only believe propaganda and spin that fits your existing beliefs.

You honestly don't disgust me. I pity you because you're consumed with hatred and lost in fantasy.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 08:32 PM
You only believe propaganda and spin that fits your existing beliefs.

You honestly don't disgust me. I pity you because you're consumed with hatred and lost in fantasy.
Once again you sidestepped my reasonable questions. Progressives are cowards.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 08:37 PM
Once again you sidestepped my reasonable questions. Progressives are cowards.
The only question in the post I responded to was "Why the fuck not?".

The rest were just baseless statements.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 08:40 PM
The Nunes memo illustrates that the FBI did not rely solely on the Steele dossier to acquire its warrants. It's possible the FBI omitted facts in securing the warrants, but to conclude that some nefarious plot was afoot is a leap.
I disagree. I worked in the field of seeking search authorizations and later in granting them (as a military magistrate). What happened here was a travesty. I had a similar event, albeit with nowhere near the affect, and I had a senior CID agent destroyed for lying to me.

What Mueller and or his agents did with this FISA warrant is deplorable. Heads should roll.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 08:40 PM
The only question in the post I responded to was "Why the fuck not?".

The rest were just baseless statements.
Must I spell everything out for you?

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 08:41 PM
The goal wasn't really to cast doubt on the election process. It's primary goal was to cast doubt on Clinton. That was made clear in th Senate report.

It's important because we should ask why. Why did the Russians favour Trump and was it simply because they feared Clintons policies or was there collusion?

The US has engaged in this as well. It doesn't make it irrelevant that Russia did.
Incorrect. The Russian goal was only to cast doubt on the election process in the US.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 08:46 PM
I didn't say the propaganda didn't have an impact. I also haven't claimed the propaganda decided the outcome. The propaganda did indeed have an impact and left unchecked, it could help change the outcome of future elections.

Trump's approach to Russia didn't seem rational and pragmatic. It seemed naive and bordering on cozy.

I find it odd how many people seem to brush off, rationalize or downplay this attack on the US.
Despite the Russian actions to play one side off the other, it did not affect the outcome. There is no evidence that it did.

stjames1_53
03-09-2019, 08:49 PM
You only believe propaganda and spin that fits your existing beliefs.

You honestly don't disgust me. I pity you because you're consumed with hatred and lost in fantasy.

consumed by hatred??????? now prove it.
It is YOU that exhibits hatred and bigotry

jimmyz
03-09-2019, 08:55 PM
I guess that means Trumps own attorney general whom he nominated is part of the coup. He and many Republicans see the Mueller investigation as legitimate.

Trump supporters sure have embraced a self imposed victim status...and collective amnesia.

This Trump voter has not.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 08:55 PM
I disagree. I worked in the field of seeking search authorizations and later in granting them (as a military magistrate). What happened here was a travesty. I had a similar event, albeit with nowhere near the affect, and I had a senior CID agent destroyed for lying to me.

What Mueller and or his agents did with this FISA warrant is deplorable. Heads should roll.

I admit I'm no expert on the subject, but from what I've read, the accusations of impropriety regarding the FISA warrant have been exaggerated. Again, the Nunes memo goes into detail.

From what I understand, Mueller isn't directing and hasn't directed FBI agents during his investigation. He's working for the Justice Department and not the FBI.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 08:56 PM
Must I spell everything out for you?

Well, you accused me of dodging questions but you didn't really pose any.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 08:57 PM
...Trump's approach to Russia didn't seem rational and pragmatic. It seemed naive and bordering on cozy.

What, specifically bothered you?

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 08:59 PM
Incorrect. The Russian goal was only to cast doubt on the election process in the US.That's not the conclusion detailed in the senate report.https://www.vox.com/world/2018/12/17/18144523/russia-senate-report-african-american-ira-clinton-instagram

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 09:01 PM
consumed by hatred??????? now prove it. It is YOU that exhibits hatred and bigotryLol...I think the fact I've been called evil sort of proves my point. How have I exhibited hatred and bigotry?

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 09:02 PM
Well, you accused me of dodging questions but you didn't really pose any.
I suppose I should reconsider not believing you stupid.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 09:03 PM
Lol...I think the fact I've been called evil sort of proves my point. How have I exhibited hatred and bigotry?
It is either stupid or evil. I suppose both remains a possibility.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 09:06 PM
Despite the Russian actions to play one side off the other, it did not affect the outcome. There is no evidence that it did.Correct, there is no evidence that it affected the outcome. I think it certainly effected some people and their views and even votes. It's difficult to quantify the actual impact.That's still serious. If someone attempts a crime like robbery or murder and they're unsuccessful, they've still committed a serious crime.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 09:13 PM
Well, you accused me of dodging questions but you didn't really pose any.
Let's see. Should I play along?

1) Why do you continue to sidestep the central issue? The Steele Dosier was a lie made up for the Clinton campaign and used by the coup plotters in the DOJ, FBI and the FISA Court to allow the Federal government, specifically the evil Obama Regime, to spy on an American citizen and political opponent.

2) Given the lie as the basis for the espionage against an American citizen and opposition party, why don't you object?

3) Do you understand the espionage and follow-up investigation was based on a Crooked Hillary/DNC/McCain lie? If so why don't you object?

4) Do you understand The DOJ and FBI KNEW the dossier was a lie? If so why don't you object?

I do not expect you to understand how justice works. We establish that a crime has been committed. Then we assign someone to investigate the crime. We do not give the prosecutor a list of names and tell the prosecutor to find some crimes (or simply make some up).

Canada may be more Stalinesque.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 09:20 PM
I admit I'm no expert on the subject, but from what I've read, the accusations of impropriety regarding the FISA warrant have been exaggerated. Again, the Nunes memo goes into detail.

From what I understand, Mueller isn't directing and hasn't directed FBI agents during his investigation. He's working for the Justice Department and not the FBI.
I don't know who directed those FBI agents to lie to the FISA court. My ire is directed at them and their leaders who are involved. Whomever they are.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 09:22 PM
I don't know who directed those FBI agents to lie to the FISA court. My ire is directed at them and their leaders who are involved. Whomever they are.
Comey was the culprit.

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 09:22 PM
Correct, there is no evidence that it affected the outcome. I think it certainly effected some people and their views and even votes. It's difficult to quantify the actual impact.That's still serious. If someone attempts a crime like robbery or murder and they're unsuccessful, they've still committed a serious crime.
It is serious. And it has been serious for decades.

Also, the US has done the same and more. We have gone so far as to assassinate opposition and to create civil wars.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 09:23 PM
Let's see. Should I play along?1) Why do you continue to sidestep the central issue? The Steele Dosier was a lie made up for the Clinton campaign and used by the coup plotters in the DOJ, FBI and the FISA Court to allow the Federal government, specifically the evil Obama Regime, to spy on an American citizen and political opponent. 2) Given the lie as the basis for the espionage against an American citizen and opposition party, why don't you object?3) Do you understand the espionage and follow-up investigation was based on a Crooked Hillary/DNC/McCain lie? If so why don't you object?4) Do you understand The DOJ and FBI KNEW the dossier was a lie? If so why don't you object?I do not expect you to understand how justice works. We establish that a crime has been committed. Then we assign someone to investigate the crime. We do not give the prosecutor a list of names and tell the prosecutor to find some crimes (or simply make some up).Canada may be more Stalinesque.1) I'm not side stepping anything. The Steele dossier wasn't a fabrication. It was a continuation of the investigation commissioned by conservative Washington Free Beacon. FISA warrants and investigations were not based solely on the Steele dossier.2) I don't object because it wasn't based on a lie.3) Again, your claim isn't factual. No reason to object. 4) What evidence do you have that they knew it was a lie? A crime was committed and evidence that members of Trumps campaign may have been involved existed. Canada has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 09:25 PM
I'm not sure why I'm having formatting issues. Where did my paragraphs go?

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 09:36 PM
1) I'm not side stepping anything. The Steele dossier wasn't a fabrication. It was a continuation of the investigation commissioned by conservative Washington Free Beacon. FISA warrants and investigations were not based solely on the Steele dossier.2) I don't object because it wasn't based on a lie.3) Again, your claim isn't factual. No reason to object. 4) What evidence do you have that they knew it was a lie? A crime was committed and evidence that members of Trumps campaign may have been involved existed. Canada has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
1) of course the Steele dossier was a fabrication. Every intelligent person knows it but you. Why don't you?
1a) The Washington Free Beacon hired Fusion GPS to do opposition research. You are lying. Why do you continue to lie on such a minor, irrelevant point?
1b) How do you account for the comments that without the Steele dossier they perps in our FBI would not have been granted authority to spy on an American presidential candidate of the opposition party?

2) Given the lie as the basis for the espionage against an American citizen and opposition party, why don't you object?
Of course, it was a lie. It was a lie commissioned by broke brained Crooked Hillary. Boy did she and people just like you screw up the nation.

3) Do you understand the espionage and follow-up investigation was based on a Crooked Hillary/DNC/McCain lie? If so why don't you object?

My claim isn't factual? Who secretly hired Steele to make up the dossier? What do you mean my claim is not factual? Be specific.

4) Do you understand The DOJ and FBI KNEW the dossier was a lie?
4) What evidence do you have that they knew it was a lie you asked. That has come out in testimony over the last couple of months. I don't remember. Isn't that part of the left's strategy, to lie often and loudly?

Comey said several times he knew the dossier was unverified. The FBI knew it was paid for by the Democrats. I think even McCabe said there is no there there. It was a lie, and they knew it. If you didn't know before now you do.
You claim a crime was committed. What crime do you allege?

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 09:37 PM
I'm not sure why I'm having formatting issues. Where did my paragraphs go?
I have the same problem. The forum software occasionally fails us.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 09:43 PM
1) of course the Steele dossier was a fabrication. Every intelligent person knows it but you. Why don't you?
1a) The Washington Free Beacon hired Fusion GPS to do opposition research. You are lying. Why do you continue to lie on such a minor, irrelevant point?
1b) How do you account for the comments that without the Steele dossier they perps in our FBI would not have been granted authority to spy on an American presidential candidate of the opposition party?

2) Given the lie as the basis for the espionage against an American citizen and opposition party, why don't you object?
Of course, it was a lie. It was a lie commissioned by broke brained Crooked Hillary. Boy did she and people just like you screw up the nation.

3) Do you understand the espionage and follow-up investigation was based on a Crooked Hillary/DNC/McCain lie? If so why don't you object?

My claim isn't factual? Who secretly hired Steele to make up the dossier? What do you mean my claim is not factual? Be specific.

4) Do you understand The DOJ and FBI KNEW the dossier was a lie?
4) What evidence do you have that they knew it was a lie you asked. That has come out in testimony over the last couple of months. I don't remember. Isn't that part of the left's strategy, to lie often and loudly?

Comey said several times he knew the dossier was unverified. The FBI knew it was paid for by the Democrats. I think even McCabe said there is no there there. It was a lie, and they knew it. If you didn't know before now you do.
You claim a crime was committed. What crime do you allege?

Again, you're basing your arguments on innuendo and unsubstantiated allegations.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 09:43 PM
I have the same problem. The forum software occasionally fails us.
I restarted my iPad. Seemed to fix it.

stjames1_53
03-09-2019, 09:46 PM
1) I'm not side stepping anything. The Steele dossier wasn't a fabrication. It was a continuation of the investigation commissioned by conservative Washington Free Beacon. FISA warrants and investigations were not based solely on the Steele dossier.2) I don't object because it wasn't based on a lie.3) Again, your claim isn't factual. No reason to object. 4) What evidence do you have that they knew it was a lie? A crime was committed and evidence that members of Trumps campaign may have been involved existed. Canada has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

It was a total fabrication. None of has been proven. None of the authors are willing to step up and be grilled by the House intel on any subject contained in the dossier.
If you know none of it is fabricated, you need to get down to Mueller's office and show him your proof. He's waiting on your proof and all he needs is exactly that from you.

stjames1_53
03-09-2019, 09:47 PM
Again, you're basing your arguments on innuendo and unsubstantiated allegations.

yet you are doing exactly what you claim he is doing. Assumption if the mother of all f*ups and you're assuming all the way

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 09:49 PM
Again, you're basing your arguments on innuendo and unsubstantiated allegations.
I believe I should give up on you. I revert to my original assessment. You are evil.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 09:57 PM
I believe I should give up on you. I revert to my original assessment. You are evil.

Lol...ok. How divine of you to attempt.

I guess I'm just too evil to be swayed by your righteousness.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 09:58 PM
yet you are doing exactly what you claim he is doing. Assumption if the mother of all f*ups and you're assuming all the way
True, but my assumptions are based on Senate reports and the intelligence community.

MisterVeritis
03-09-2019, 09:59 PM
Lol...ok. How divine of you to attempt.

I guess I'm just too evil to be swayed by your righteousness.
You are who you are.

Common Sense
03-09-2019, 10:01 PM
You are who you are.
Pleased to meet you. Won't you guess my name?

Peter1469
03-09-2019, 10:04 PM
Pleased to meet you. Won't you guess my name?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRXGsPBUV5g

stjames1_53
03-10-2019, 05:21 AM
True, but my assumptions are based on Senate reports and the intelligence community.

None of which have been released in full to the public general. And you're only reading what they want you to read; The accusations.
WFT are you going to do once Mueller clears him? Support our democrat led House to do what Mueller couldn't do legally? That IS the definition of a political coup
Again, none of this affects you in any way. Why would you hope that a duly elected president be removed from office? This ain't no third world country, bub

"...and hustling you is the nature of my game" Common Sense

jet57
03-10-2019, 12:10 PM
The phrase soft coup has come from very respected people to include Victor Davis Hanson, a classicist from Stanford. He compares modern political issues and problems with those experienced in ancient Rome and Greece. His conclusion is that the attacks on Trump is classical Rome and Greece. :wink:

So getting Nixon out of office was a coup right?

Peter1469
03-10-2019, 12:20 PM
So getting Nixon out of office was a coup right?
No. Why do you ask?

Common Sense
03-10-2019, 12:22 PM
None of which have been released in full to the public general. And you're only reading what they want you to read; The accusations.
WFT are you going to do once Mueller clears him? Support our democrat led House to do what Mueller couldn't do legally? That IS the definition of a political coup
Again, none of this affects you in any way. Why would you hope that a duly elected president be removed from office? This ain't no third world country, bub

"...and hustling you is the nature of my game" Common Sense

When or where have I said the president should be removed from office?

If you don't understand how American politics effects me and my country, then I can't help you. I've explained it several times and it should be obvious to anyone with a lick of sense.

You probably shouldn't fabricate quotes, btw...

jet57
03-10-2019, 01:27 PM
No. Why do you ask?

Moves against Trump are a coup??

Peter1469
03-10-2019, 02:24 PM
Moves against Trump are a coup??
Nixon was caught up in actual criminal conduct.

Trump is being attacked via general warrant, something our Founders broke from the Crown over.

MisterVeritis
03-10-2019, 03:38 PM
Moves against Trump are a coup??
Yes. Yes, they are.

Captdon
03-10-2019, 04:32 PM
I admit I'm no expert on the subject, but from what I've read, the accusations of impropriety regarding the FISA warrant have been exaggerated. Again, the Nunes memo goes into detail.

From what I understand, Mueller isn't directing and hasn't directed FBI agents during his investigation. He's working for the Justice Department and not the FBI.

The FBI used a known fake document to obtain a warrant and you think that is an exaggeration? No one has said the Mueller is directing the FBI. He is directing a search for a crime instead of a perpetrator of a crime. That's not how justice works.

Captdon
03-10-2019, 04:38 PM
That's not the conclusion detailed in the senate report.https://www.vox.com/world/2018/12/17/18144523/russia-senate-report-african-american-ira-clinton-instagram

Russia didn't think Trump could win anymore than the DNC. They wanted to undermine the validity of the election. They always have. Putin wanted to screw with Hildabeast for messing with his election. He wanted to sow doubts. He was very successful. He had you believing and you can't even vote here.

Captdon
03-10-2019, 04:42 PM
Correct, there is no evidence that it affected the outcome. I think it certainly effected some people and their views and even votes. It's difficult to quantify the actual impact.That's still serious. If someone attempts a crime like robbery or murder and they're unsuccessful, they've still committed a serious crime.

But it is Trump the Democrats are trying to unseat. This whole thing is a sham attempt to overthrow an election. Now that it is obvious that Mueller will not have anything to say about Trump, the Dems are going to investigate themselves. They are going to try to do what Mueller couldn't. It is a sham and a shame.

Captdon
03-10-2019, 04:50 PM
1) I'm not side stepping anything. The Steele dossier wasn't a fabrication. It was a continuation of the investigation commissioned by conservative Washington Free Beacon. FISA warrants and investigations were not based solely on the Steele dossier.2) I don't object because it wasn't based on a lie.3) Again, your claim isn't factual. No reason to object. 4) What evidence do you have that they knew it was a lie? A crime was committed and evidence that members of Trumps campaign may have been involved existed. Canada has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

The Dossier was started by McCain and then continued by the Clintons. It was not true. The FBI admits they cannot verify one thing in it. That's the basis for an investigation?

They did not investigate Trump based on a single fact that a crime was committed. They investigated Trump in the hopes of finding a crime. You would know that if you were paying attention or not letting your hate for Trump get to you.

You are basing your whole belief on a lie. You either know it's a lie and have no scruples or you don't know it's a lie and have no intelligence.

I don't think you're evil but you may well be stupid.

Captdon
03-10-2019, 04:54 PM
Again, you're basing your arguments on innuendo and unsubstantiated allegations.

The FBI personnel have admitted as much. How much proof do you need? How much of the top of the FBI has been fired or quit directly because of this?

Captdon
03-10-2019, 04:58 PM
True, but my assumptions are based on Senate reports and the intelligence community.

No one them has verified the Dossier. Therefore you are basing your entire argument on a lie.

jet57
03-10-2019, 05:01 PM
Nixon was caught up in actual criminal conduct.

Trump is being attacked via general warrant, something our Founders broke from the Crown over.

There's been no "general warrant" put out on Trump. Because his campaign and business people have been found guilty of all sorts of things, Trump is being investigated. Trump is in the very same position that Nixon was in before Nixon resigned.

Captdon
03-10-2019, 05:03 PM
So getting Nixon out of office was a coup right?

Nixon committed provable crimes. You can't name a single crime that Trump has committed. No, your opinion doesn't count. Name a crime with any evidence. Nixon said it on tape. The FBI proved he took money from the milk industry in return for favors. It was proven that he told his aide to lie to both the Congress and the FBI.

I was in the my late thirties when that went down. I didn't read it in a book.

Captdon
03-10-2019, 05:06 PM
Moves against Trump are a coup??

Yes. What else could they be? There is no evidence a crime was committed. There was a crime committed when Nixon was investigated. Clinton did lie under oath. Trump has done nothing but piss you liberals off.

Peter1469
03-10-2019, 05:16 PM
There's been no "general warrant" put out on Trump. Because his campaign and business people have been found guilty of all sorts of things, Trump is being investigated. Trump is in the very same position that Nixon was in before Nixon resigned.
You are incorrect. A general warrant was issued to look for "collusion" and anything else you can come up with. Collusion is not even a crime under the US criminal code.

We defeated a British army over general warrants. What should we do now?

Captdon
03-10-2019, 05:22 PM
There's been no "general warrant" put out on Trump. Because his campaign and business people have been found guilty of all sorts of things, Trump is being investigated. Trump is in the very same position that Nixon was in before Nixon resigned.

Nixon committed provable crimes. He had three felonies to defend against. Trump hasn't been accused of an actual crime. Nixon resigned when Goldwater told him he would be impeached and that he, Goldwater, only has 18 votes for not removing him.

Trump certainly has been investigated without a basis of a crime having been committed. Some crimes, unrelated to Trump, have been uncovered but that's not the basis of the investigation. The basis is to remove a duly elected President for no other reason than he isn't liked by the Democrats.

You would have been better off staying out of this because you know so little of what we are talking about. If you weren't old enough to understand the Nixon story, read a book instead of posting something foolish.

stjames1_53
03-10-2019, 05:22 PM
There's been no "general warrant" put out on Trump. Because his campaign and business people have been found guilty of all sorts of things, Trump is being investigated. Trump is in the very same position that Nixon was in before Nixon resigned.

Just who did Trump spy on?

jet57
03-10-2019, 05:23 PM
You are incorrect. A general warrant was issued to look for "collusion" and anything else you can come up with. Collusion is not even a crime under the US criminal code.

We defeated a British army over general warrants. What should we do now?

I don't see where a general warrant was issued against Trump perse'. A general warrant was issued to cover the entire case and many have been issued before for other cases, so you're out of touch I'm afraid.

stjames1_53
03-10-2019, 05:26 PM
I don't see where a general warrant was issued against Trump perse'. A general warrant was issued to cover the entire case and many have been issued before for other cases, so you're out of touch I'm afraid.

You co know that collusion is not a crime. What would the "general warrant" be for?

Peter1469
03-10-2019, 05:35 PM
I don't see where a general warrant was issued against Trump perse'. A general warrant was issued to cover the entire case and many have been issued before for other cases, so you're out of touch I'm afraid.

General warrants are unconstitutional. We killed a lot of Brits to prove it.

MisterVeritis
03-10-2019, 06:26 PM
But it is Trump the Democrats are trying to unseat. This whole thing is a sham attempt to overthrow an election. Now that it is obvious that Mueller will not have anything to say about Trump, the Dems are going to investigate themselves. They are going to try to do what Mueller couldn't. It is a sham and a shame.
And a coup.

Common Sense
03-10-2019, 08:29 PM
There was no warrant.

There was an order appointing Mueller as special counsel to investigate Russian interference in the election and related matters.

Trumps campaign is mentioned as is obstruction ofjustice. Collusion is not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–present)#/media/File%3AAppointment_of_Special_Counsel_to_Investiga te_Russian_Interference_with_the_2016_Presidential _Election_and_Related_Matters.pdf

jet57
03-10-2019, 08:53 PM
General warrants are unconstitutional. We killed a lot of Brits to prove it.

Well then, what general warrant was issued?

Peter1469
03-11-2019, 04:45 AM
There was no warrant.

There was an order appointing Mueller as special counsel to investigate Russian interference in the election and related matters.

Trumps campaign is mentioned as is obstruction ofjustice. Collusion is not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–present)#/media/File%3AAppointment_of_Special_Counsel_to_Investiga te_Russian_Interference_with_the_2016_Presidential _Election_and_Related_Matters.pdf

The appointment memo reads like a general warrant.

b(1) is the collusion aspect

stjames1_53
03-11-2019, 05:39 AM
The appointment memo reads like a general warrant.

b(1) is the collusion aspect

and yet no one has shown where collusion, if it even exists, is chargeable offense.

stjames1_53
03-11-2019, 05:41 AM
There was no warrant.

There was an order appointing Mueller as special counsel to investigate Russian interference in the election and related matters.

Trumps campaign is mentioned as is obstruction ofjustice. Collusion is not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–present)#/media/File%3AAppointment_of_Special_Counsel_to_Investiga te_Russian_Interference_with_the_2016_Presidential _Election_and_Related_Matters.pdf

so, you've already read Mueller's report. Where is the Obstruction of Justice?

Captdon
03-11-2019, 10:52 AM
There's been no "general warrant" put out on Trump. Because his campaign and business people have been found guilty of all sorts of things, Trump is being investigated. Trump is in the very same position that Nixon was in before Nixon resigned.

You know so little you embarrass yourself. The Trump Investigation uncovered these other things. You, again, are wrong anout the Nixon situation. Lying once is bad. Doubling down on it is insane. Nixon had provable crimes and Trump doesn't have rumors of provab.e crimes. Try reading a book instead of writing fiction.

Captdon
03-11-2019, 10:53 AM
I don't see where a general warrant was issued against Trump perse'. A general warrant was issued to cover the entire case and many have been issued before for other cases, so you're out of touch I'm afraid.

Name a case. You aren't out of touch so much as out of your league.

Captdon
03-11-2019, 10:56 AM
Well then, what general warrant was issued?

They issued a warrant to investigate Trump, not a crime. That's not how the system works.Still like you to name a general warrant ever being issued.