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IMPress Polly
04-24-2019, 06:47 AM
The inalienable "right to sex" strikes again!

Recently, a 24-year-old man from Minnesota, Emmanuel Aranda, threw a random five-year-old boy off a balcony at the Mall of America (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/man-threw-child-mall-of-america-angry-women_n_5cb5bbd5e4b098b9a2da2fe1). Confessing to the crime, he claims, as his explanation, that he was frustrated by the fact that women typically rejected his advances. Aranda was already banned from the Mall of America at the time for threatening patrons in the past and had already been convicted of multiple assaults before elsewhere. His lawyer was quick to blame mental illness, as is the new fashion trend.

Common
04-24-2019, 07:10 AM
I posted this a week or so ago, hes one sick puppy but lately there seems to be alot of sick puppies out there

IMPress Polly
04-24-2019, 07:13 AM
Why is it that we try and explain male violence as consequential of mental illness? Many women struggle with mental illness and rejection too, yet far less often resort to violent solutions. This isn't mental illness at work here folks, it's an ideology that says men are entitled to a yes answer.

countryboy
04-24-2019, 07:15 AM
The inalienable "right to sex" strikes again!

Recently, a 24-year-old man from Minnesota, Emmanuel Aranda, threw a random five-year-old boy off a balcony at the Mall of America (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/man-threw-child-mall-of-america-angry-women_n_5cb5bbd5e4b098b9a2da2fe1). Confessing to the crime, he claims, as his explanation, that he was frustrated by the fact that women typically rejected his advances. Aranda was already banned from the Mall of America at the time for threatening patrons in the past and had already been convicted of multiple assaults before elsewhere. His lawyer was quick to blame mental illness, as is the new fashion trend.
"Incel" is a fake narrative promoted by fake feminists. This guy is nothing more than a garden variety sicko.

Mister D
04-24-2019, 07:21 AM
Why is it that we try and explain male violence as consequential of mental illness? Many women struggle with mental illness and rejection too, yet far less often resort to violent solutions. This isn't mental illness at work here folks, it's an ideology that says men are entitled to a yes answer.
Because throwing a random child (or any child) off a balcony is incomprehensible behavior for most men.

The male of our species tends to be more aggressive and violent. That's why many more men take their own lives. :wink:

Any other questions?

Private Pickle
04-24-2019, 07:32 AM
Yawn

nathanbforrest45
04-24-2019, 07:45 AM
Because throwing a random child (or any child) off a balcony is incomprehensible behavior for most men.

The male of our species tends to be more aggressive and violent. That's why many more men take their own lives. :wink:

Any other questions?

The male of most species tend to be more aggressive than the female. It is the duty of most females to protect their young, its the duty of the male to give them something to protect. Females are far more important then males when it comes to survival of the species so they tend to avoid confrontation unless its to protect their young. I noticed this with black bears on my property in Tennessee. The females would hang close to the wood line which gave them cover if they needed to protect the cubs. The males would try to wander right up next to the house.

Lummy
04-24-2019, 08:26 AM
Why is it that we try and explain male violence as consequential of mental illness? Many women struggle with mental illness and rejection too, yet far less often resort to violent solutions. This isn't mental illness at work here folks, it's an ideology that says men are entitled to a yes answer.

That's as worn out as it is silly.

Lummy
04-24-2019, 08:37 AM
The male of most species tend to be more aggressive than the female. It is the duty of most females to protect their young, its the duty of the male to give them something to protect. Females are far more important then males when it comes to survival of the species so they tend to avoid confrontation unless its to protect their young. I noticed this with black bears on my property in Tennessee. The females would hang close to the wood line which gave them cover if they needed to protect the cubs. The males would try to wander right up next to the house.

If you mean by males are less important because one male could theoretically repopulate the planet, I suppose you're onto something. I doubt that that's possible, but I would volunteer for the job if an attempt to find out should ever come to be desirable. But if you really mean, as you say, that females are more important because they protect their young, that is incorrect. It is not a predisposition vital to survival of the species since many species -- maybe most -- do not care what happens to their young.

Somewhere along the way in contemplating this, you have to conclude that this feminine attribute in humans is actually detrimental since it is that instinct that makes female politicians generally dysfunctional, finding moral justification in all their nonsense, saving and protecting illegal invaders, dangerous drug dealers and mass genocidal criminals, redefining gender as something other than the obvious. Theirs are never some heady moral position from insight, but the defense of chaos and entropy by agents of the devil. That's just a fact -- and a very prominent one -- factually stated in Genesis, the first few pages of The Bible.

For all the great contributions of rare and exceptional women to history, females generally are a terrible detriment to politics and government. They are demonstrating that in flames now.

Ethereal
04-24-2019, 09:16 AM
This isn't mental illness at work here folks, it's an ideology that says men are entitled to a yes answer.

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Ethereal
04-24-2019, 09:17 AM
Yawn

Very constructive. I'm glad I got to read this substantive contribution.

Lummy
04-24-2019, 09:33 AM
IMHO, a female in politics is nothing more than a displaced little girl looking to organize her doll house the way she wants it. At the first, ... or second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth sign of serious trouble, if she has any ability at all to recognize it, she will seek refuge and safety behind a male or avail herself to the other side (as for example, Hillary), having already pissed away or murdered her compatriots.

Mini Me
04-24-2019, 10:12 AM
IMHO, a female in politics is nothing more than a displaced little girl looking to organize her doll house the way she wants it. At the first, ... or second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth sign of serious trouble, if she has any ability at all to recognize it, she will seek refuge and safety behind a male or avail herself to the other side (as for example, Hillary), having already pissed away or murdered her compatriots.

You really need to stop posting such nonsense!

Private Pickle
04-24-2019, 10:12 AM
Very constructive. I'm glad I got to read this substantive contribution.
Yeah the OP is a complete waste of man-hating time.

Collateral Damage
04-24-2019, 10:15 AM
IMHO, a female in politics is nothing more than a displaced little girl looking to organize her doll house the way she wants it. At the first, ... or second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth sign of serious trouble, if she has any ability at all to recognize it, she will seek refuge and safety behind a male or avail herself to the other side (as for example, Hillary), having already pissed away or murdered her compatriots.

Feeling threatened? Uncomfortable with the idea that someone without a penis may actually be able to provide direction in this country?

Ethereal
04-24-2019, 10:27 AM
Yeah the OP is a complete waste of man-hating time.

The OP is a thread about politics posted on a political forum. It's why this forum exists. Naturally, you're entitled to your opinion, including the opinion that her thread is a waste of time, but there is really no good reason for you to take up thread space with what is essentially a meta-post (ironic, since meta-posts are generally considered actual wastes of time). If you want to express an opinion about the thread topic, then you should try to say something about the thread topic other than "this is a waste of time" or "LOL". I know you can do it! I have faith in you!

:grin:

Ethereal
04-24-2019, 10:28 AM
IMHO, a female in politics is nothing more than a displaced little girl looking to organize her doll house the way she wants it. At the first, ... or second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth sign of serious trouble, if she has any ability at all to recognize it, she will seek refuge and safety behind a male or avail herself to the other side (as for example, Hillary), having already pissed away or murdered her compatriots.

A female in politics sounds a lot like a male in politics.

Private Pickle
04-24-2019, 12:15 PM
The OP is a thread about politics posted on a political forum. It's why this forum exists. Naturally, you're entitled to your opinion, including the opinion that her thread is a waste of time, but there is really no good reason for you to take up thread space with what is essentially a meta-post (ironic, since meta-posts are generally considered actual wastes of time). If you want to express an opinion about the thread topic, then you should try to say something about the thread topic other than "this is a waste of time" or "LOL". I know you can do it! I have faith in you!

:grin:

This is a waste of time or LOL are fair commentaries on threads such as these. I appreciate the faith of a political forum’s SJW. On to the next policing action for you!

The Xl
04-24-2019, 12:40 PM
He's obviously BSing or mentally ill

Chris
04-24-2019, 01:41 PM
"right to sex" is as absurd as right to healthcare or right to be served by a public business.

IMPress Polly
04-24-2019, 05:15 PM
The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Thank you for far and away the most intelligent answer so far.

IMPress Polly
04-24-2019, 05:20 PM
He's obviously BSing or mentally ill

I think that's an optimistic assessment.

Common
04-24-2019, 05:26 PM
Why is it that we try and explain male violence as consequential of mental illness? Many women struggle with mental illness and rejection too, yet far less often resort to violent solutions. This isn't mental illness at work here folks, it's an ideology that says men are entitled to a yes answer.
Polly you need to read the news more often, there are women in the news everyday committing violence. Want to me post about 5 articles a day on women committing violence, hurting their kids, killing them, burning them and videos of women attacking people ?? Just STOP with your one sided feminine view of the world because it is not based in fact.

Why did I insinuate this guy was a sick puppy therefore has mental issues. What friggin NORMAL thinking male throws a 5 yr old kid off a 3 story balcony because hes mad at their mother. ONLY A SICK F***k male or female does that.

The Xl
04-24-2019, 05:28 PM
I think that's an optimistic assessment.

Most self admitted incels aren't throwing kids off balconys. They may be deplorable but aren't necessarily criminals. Obviously this guy wasn't complely wrapped right

Mister D
04-24-2019, 06:36 PM
Most self admitted incels aren't throwing kids off balconys. They may be deplorable but aren't necessarily criminals. Obviously this guy wasn't complely wrapped right

Yes, obviously. Moreover, a tiny fraction of male violence is attributed to mental illness. When prostitutes are strangled and dismembered, when the voices tell you to kill or when you're tossing kids from balconies I'm thinking crazy.

Dr. Who
04-24-2019, 06:43 PM
The inalienable "right to sex" strikes again!

Recently, a 24-year-old man from Minnesota, Emmanuel Aranda, threw a random five-year-old boy off a balcony at the Mall of America (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/man-threw-child-mall-of-america-angry-women_n_5cb5bbd5e4b098b9a2da2fe1). Confessing to the crime, he claims, as his explanation, that he was frustrated by the fact that women typically rejected his advances. Aranda was already banned from the Mall of America at the time for threatening patrons in the past and had already been convicted of multiple assaults before elsewhere. His lawyer was quick to blame mental illness, as is the new fashion trend.
He's as crazy as a bedbug. The question is, why has he been allowed to run around with the freedom to cause injury and death? Rhetorical question - answer, because until that individual commits murder, no one wants to spend the money to keep the rest of society safe.

Chris
04-24-2019, 07:01 PM
He's as crazy as a bedbug. The question is, why has he been allowed to run around with the freedom to cause injury and death? Rhetorical question - answer, because until that individual commits murder, no one wants to spend the money to keep the rest of society safe.

That assumes we know enough psychologically to predict which people will go crazy and harm others. Until we do you'd be throwing money away on cockamamy ideas. But liberalism.

Dr. Who
04-24-2019, 07:53 PM
That assumes we know enough psychologically to predict which people will go crazy and harm others. Until we do you'd be throwing money away on cockamamy ideas. But liberalism.

These people who commit these spontaneous homicidal acts are rarely committing acts of violence for the first time. There are always people who knew that they were unstable but protected them or didn't say anything or were unable to get help for them. Why do you think that there is a homeless problem? It's because mental health care is so underfunded. People in the 1940's got more mental health care than people today.

Chris
04-24-2019, 08:03 PM
These people who commit these spontaneous homicidal acts are rarely committing acts of violence for the first time. There are always people who knew that they were unstable but protected them or didn't say anything or were unable to get help for them. Why do you think that there is a homeless problem? It's because mental health care is so underfunded. People in the 1940's got more mental health care than people today.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Yours is a just-so story after the fact. And, naturally, as a liberal who believes such beliefs can fix society, you find solutions to throw other peoples' money at.

countryboy
04-24-2019, 08:13 PM
Feeling threatened? Uncomfortable with the idea that someone without a penis may actually be able to provide direction in this country?
Ha Haaaaa! Good one! Oh wait, you were serious? Hey look! SQUIRREL!!!!

:hiding:

Ethereal
04-24-2019, 08:23 PM
This is a waste of time or LOL are fair commentaries on threads such as these. I appreciate the faith of a political forum’s SJW. On to the next policing action for you!

All your comments are a waste of time, Private Pickle... cuz I say so!

Ethereal
04-24-2019, 08:28 PM
Polly you need to read the news more often, there are women in the news everyday committing violence. Want to me post about 5 articles a day on women committing violence, hurting their kids, killing them, burning them and videos of women attacking people ?? Just STOP with your one sided feminine view of the world because it is not based in fact.

Why did I insinuate this guy was a sick puppy therefore has mental issues. What friggin NORMAL thinking male throws a 5 yr old kid off a 3 story balcony because hes mad at their mother. ONLY A SICK F***k male or female does that.

Obviously, women commit violence. Nobody is denying that. But men, as a class, commit far more violence than women do. The male inclination towards violence partly explains why this particular male decided to behave as he did. Humans, lest we forget, are the top predators on the planet. The male of the human species is the most dangerous predator that has ever existed on earth. Human males have a natural predatory instinct due to millions of years of evolutionary behavior. Such an instinct has helped propel humans to the top. But it also presents unique and difficult challenges for how to organized civilized societies.

Ethereal
04-24-2019, 08:44 PM
He's as crazy as a bedbug. The question is, why has he been allowed to run around with the freedom to cause injury and death? Rhetorical question - answer, because until that individual commits murder, no one wants to spend the money to keep the rest of society safe.

Generally speaking, communities and families are the strongest regulators of human behavior. So if a particular human is acting out like this, it's probably because they lack strong community and family networks.

Dr. Who
04-24-2019, 08:57 PM
Generally speaking, communities and families are the strongest regulators of human behavior. So if a particular human is acting out like this, it's probably because they lack strong community and family networks.
Or the family is unable to pay for the care that he needs. There is an extreme shortage of the kind of in-patient care that someone like this person might need, unless you have the kind of money to get him into the premier facilities.

Chris
04-24-2019, 09:27 PM
Or the family is unable to pay for the care that he needs. There is an extreme shortage of the kind of in-patient care that someone like this person might need, unless you have the kind of money to get him into the premier facilities.

Or a million other possibilities that you could guess at, why narrow it down to monetary matters?

Anyone who goes to malls to meet women needs more help than you have to offer. Did you know that about him? Yet you offer expert advice.


As for the OP title, "Guy Throws Child Off Balcony Because Incel," so far there's no connection to the Incel movement.


Agendas, :f_doh:

Dr. Who
04-24-2019, 09:40 PM
Or a million other possibilities that you could guess at, why narrow it down to monetary matters?

Anyone who goes to malls to meet women needs more help than you have to offer. Did you know that about him? Yet you offer expert advice.


As for the OP title, "Guy Throws Child Off Balcony Because Incel," so far there's no connection to the Incel movement.


Agendas, :f_doh:
Yes, because people who throw kids off balconies are normal, right? Pfft! I couldn't care less if he was connected to the bowel movement. He's mentally ill and there are far too many of these homicidal types that people know are off their rocker just walking around.

Cotton1
04-24-2019, 10:37 PM
All your comments are a waste of time, Private Pickle... cuz I say so!

Thats hawt :)

IMPress Polly
04-25-2019, 05:13 AM
Obviously, women commit violence. Nobody is denying that. But men, as a class, commit far more violence than women do. The male inclination towards violence partly explains why this particular male decided to behave as he did. Humans, lest we forget, are the top predators on the planet. The male of the human species is the most dangerous predator that has ever existed on earth. Human males have a natural predatory instinct due to millions of years of evolutionary behavior. Such an instinct has helped propel humans to the top. But it also presents unique and difficult challenges for how to organized civilized societies.

I'm of a somewhat less pessimistic view than this. I don't believe that the disproportionate inclination toward violence that we see from men as a class is at all inevitable, and that as much is shown in the simple fact that most men don't do things like what was described in the OP. So I have faith that things can be changed for the better.

My opinion is that the main reason why women are less inclined toward violent solutions as a class is because we are socialized that way and men are not. Men are socialized to be a dominant class and violence has to be acceptable for any dominant class to exercise and conversely unacceptable for the subordinate class. If we socialize boys differently (and penalize men equally for committing violent crimes, incidentally, as women who commit violent crimes seem more likely to actually be convicted), then I think we would see the statistical differences between men and women overall on violent behavior come more into alignment. I really think that possessing more testosterone content accounts for very little of that difference.

IMPress Polly
04-25-2019, 05:22 AM
These people who commit these spontaneous homicidal acts are rarely committing acts of violence for the first time. There are always people who knew that they were unstable but protected them or didn't say anything or were unable to get help for them. Why do you think that there is a homeless problem? It's because mental health care is so underfunded. People in the 1940's got more mental health care than people today.

Were the rates of violent crime lower in the 1940s though?

That the mental health condition of the U.S. population today explains very little about the violent crime that remains is my point. I struggle with more than one mental illness and have thus far attempted to murder no one in the course of my life. And although I'm a strong proponent of gun ownership, I'd concede that even gun possession explains only a finite amount of it (as it's irrelevant to this particular case, for example). The single most common thing that murderers, rapists, and terrorists tend to have in common isn't that they are mentally ill or even that they have guns in their possession, but that they are one-sidedly (as in more than 80%) male. That's a problem that we should think about as a society, I believe. We need to think about how we socialize boys in order to actually solve problems like these, I believe.

IMPress Polly
04-25-2019, 05:29 AM
Most self admitted incels aren't throwing kids off balconys. They may be deplorable but aren't necessarily criminals. Obviously this guy wasn't complely wrapped right

I agree with you on this, which is why I've been expressing faith that things don't have to be this way. But at the same time, when you look at incels as a political grouping of people, one has to concede that there is definitely a disproportionate tendency toward violent behavior to be found therein compared to just about all other political communities that exist and operate in this country. I mean seriously, white nationalists seem to be the only more violence-prone political community in this country, statistically speaking; the only political community responsible for more murders and assaults in North America in the last two years. I doubt that that's just a coincidence. You should seriously visit the main incel message boards whenever things like what's described in the OP happen and see what the reaction is. It's a very different reaction than what we see here or anywhere else. There are always threads praising the violence in response.

I mean most ISIS members have never actually committed acts of violence themselves either. That doesn't mean they opposed them or weren't attempting to facilitate them or that ISIS is an okay organization that should be legal!

Private Pickle
04-25-2019, 07:29 AM
All your comments are a waste of time, Private Pickle... cuz I say so!
You’re entitled to your opinion. Cuz I say so.

Mister D
04-25-2019, 08:07 AM
I'm of a somewhat less pessimistic view than this. I don't believe that the disproportionate inclination toward violence that we see from men as a class is at all inevitable, and that as much is shown in the simple fact that most men don't do things like what was described in the OP. So I have faith that things can be changed for the better.

My opinion is that the main reason why women are less inclined toward violent solutions as a class is because we are socialized that way and men are not. Men are socialized to be a dominant class and violence has to be acceptable for any dominant class to exercise and conversely unacceptable for the subordinate class. If we socialize boys differently (and penalize men equally for committing violent crimes, incidentally, as women who commit violent crimes seem more likely to actually be convicted), then I think we would see the statistical differences between men and women overall on violent behavior come more into alignment. I really think that possessing more testosterone content accounts for very little of that difference.
It amazes me that after weeks of complaining about transgender politics (I'm also amazed that's become a real thing) you continue to cling to these ridiculous feminist canards. Men and women really are different, Polly. I know some of us were getting the impression that biology and anthropology had been invited to the safe space. Apparently, we were wrong.

Mister D
04-25-2019, 08:09 AM
BTW, when Ethereal says "class" I suspect he means it in the sense of category.

Chris
04-25-2019, 08:22 AM
Yes, because people who throw kids off balconies are normal, right? Pfft! I couldn't care less if he was connected to the bowel movement. He's mentally ill and there are far too many of these homicidal types that people know are off their rocker just walking around.

No one said it was normal. I was criticizing the pretentiousness of you playing expert in psychoanalysis and leaping to the conclusion we just need to throw more money at it.

Chris
04-25-2019, 08:31 AM
It amazes me that after weeks of complaining about transgender politics (I'm also amazed that's become a real thing) you continue to cling to these ridiculous feminist canards. Men and women really are different, Polly. I know some of us were getting the impression that biology and anthropology had been invited to the safe space. Apparently, we were wrong.

It does seem she's flipped back to social constructs again in claiming differences are the result of socialization.

Mister D
04-25-2019, 09:01 AM
It does seem she's flipped back to social constructs again in claiming differences are the result of socialization.
Yes, it does. She also took pains to deny that feminists have long championed this sort of socialization argument after I pointed out that transgender politics are a logical outcome of precisely that sort of argument.

Dr. Who
04-25-2019, 05:43 PM
Were the rates of violent crime lower in the 1940s though?

That the mental health condition of the U.S. population today explains very little about the violent crime that remains is my point. I struggle with more than one mental illness and have thus far attempted to murder no one in the course of my life. And although I'm a strong proponent of gun ownership, I'd concede that even gun possession explains only a finite amount of it (as it's irrelevant to this particular case, for example). The single most common thing that murderers, rapists, and terrorists tend to have in common isn't that they are mentally ill or even that they have guns in their possession, but that they are one-sidedly (as in more than 80%) male. That's a problem that we should think about as a society, I believe. We need to think about how we socialize boys in order to actually solve problems like these, I believe.
I agree that there continues to be a significant problem with domestic violence and the vast majority is perpetrated by males. I think that it's primarily learned behavior as is misogyny. Can there be overlap with certain mental disorders? I think so.

Tahuyaman
04-25-2019, 11:34 PM
Why is it that we try and explain male violence as consequential of mental illness? Many women struggle with mental illness and rejection too, yet far less often resort to violent solutions. This isn't mental illness at work here folks, it's an ideology that says men are entitled to a yes answer.
That’s nonsensical.

Peter1469
04-26-2019, 01:46 AM
No, most men are violent by nature. Most women are not.

Cotton1
04-26-2019, 02:16 AM
No, most men are violent by nature. Most women are not.

With the exception of a woman breaking a full bottle of Tequila over my head once thats mostly true. As for me? I am not violent. I stopped giving a sht about anything. Its very liberating, relaxing and frees the chains that could bind me.

IMPress Polly
04-26-2019, 05:25 AM
Yes, it does. She also took pains to deny that feminists have long championed this sort of socialization argument after I pointed out that transgender politics are a logical outcome of precisely that sort of argument.

My view is that transgenderism is consequential of the ideology of gender. Gender is a conservative ideology that says males are this way (dominant) and females are that way (subordinate). Thus, one who fails to conform to their prescribed social roles can become convinced that it's because they somehow metaphysically belong to the other sex. Gender ideology was re-popularized in its current form by queer movement theorists in the 1990s and has been streamlined onto the phones of the masses in the age of social media (i.e. today). It hinges on the Victorian era theory of the "male brain" and "female brain", which is probably nonsense you yourself passionately believe in.

Solving transgenderism means allowing for gender-nonconformity; it means not calling boys "pussies" for playing with dolls and not referring to girls as "boys" for preferring toy trucks or video games, for example. Transgenderism is symptomatic of the fact that we need to broaden out and de-metaphysicalize our concepts of what it is to be male and female respectively. You see what I'm saying?

The only difference between you and a transgender movement activist in this area is that you subscribe to an older form of gender ideology that stresses the importance of gender-conforming behavior rather than gender-conforming identity. A difference of stress isn't a difference of principle.

IMPress Polly
04-26-2019, 05:30 AM
I agree that there continues to be a significant problem with domestic violence and the vast majority is perpetrated by males. I think that it's primarily learned behavior as is misogyny. Can there be overlap with certain mental disorders? I think so.
I agree. But overlap is different from consistently, one-sided blaming everything on mental illness. I assure you that violence is a choice for 99% of the population at the end of the day.

Mister D
04-26-2019, 07:49 AM
My view is that transgenderism is consequential of the ideology of gender. Gender is a conservative ideology that says males are this way (dominant) and females are that way (subordinate). Thus, one who fails to conform to their prescribed social roles can become convinced that it's because they somehow metaphysically belong to the other sex. Gender ideology was re-popularized in its current form by $#@! movement theorists in the 1990s and has been streamlined onto the phones of the masses in the age of social media (i.e. today). It hinges on the Victorian era theory of the "male brain" and "female brain", which is probably nonsense you yourself passionately believe in.

Solving transgenderism means allowing for gender-nonconformity; it means not calling boys "$#@!" for playing with dolls and not referring to girls as "boys" for preferring toy trucks or video games, for example. Transgenderism is symptomatic of the fact that we need to broaden out and de-metaphysicalize our concepts of what it is to be male and female respectively. You see what I'm saying?

The only difference between you and a transgender movement activist in this area is that you subscribe to an older form of gender ideology that stresses the importance of gender-conforming behavior rather than gender-conforming identity. A difference of stress isn't a difference of principle.
It's amazing how this "ideology" managed to appear independently all over the world eons before the Victorian era. Look, this is safe space kook stuff. I'm not really interested in exploring your musings on gender. Feminists remain steadfastly ignorant of biology, history and anthropology. Whatever. What I am interested in doing is pointing out how transgender politics are a direct and logical consequence of feminist arguments. You can't resist falling back yet again to this constructionist position yet you still don't understand that it is precisely this kooky position that gives people the idea that men can be women and vice versa. It absolutely amazing how you go back and forth between making these claims and then denouncing men who no longer wish to be men.

Mister D
04-26-2019, 07:50 AM
I agree. But overlap is different from consistently, one-sided blaming everything on mental illness. I assure you that violence is a choice for 99% of the population at the end of the day.
Virtually no one engages in a "one-sided blaming everything on mental illness". A tiny fraction of violence is attributed to mental illness. Why do you always make things up? Have you ever stepped back and wondered if this at least partly why you get a negative reaction?

Chris
04-26-2019, 07:52 AM
Gender is an ideology now? :Doh!:

Mister D
04-26-2019, 07:53 AM
Gender is an ideology now? :Doh!:
She can't seem to wrap her mind around the logical consequences of this position.

Chris
04-26-2019, 08:29 AM
She can't seem to wrap her mind around the logical consequences of this position.

Postmodernism is anti-logical. Just a series of "interesting" declarations. To cite AOC: "I think that there a lot of people more concerned with being precisely, factually and semantically correct than about being morally right."

Cotton1
04-26-2019, 12:40 PM
Postmodernism is anti-logical. Just a series of "interesting" declarations. To cite AOC: "I think that there a lot of people more concerned with being precisely, factually and semantically correct than about being morally right."

Thats rich coming from AOC. To even mention morality and liberalism in the same breath is laughable.

Chris
04-26-2019, 01:02 PM
Thats rich coming from AOC. To even mention morality and liberalism in the same breath is laughable.

Of course, she's not being moral but just moralizing.

Rationalist
05-15-2019, 11:48 PM
Why is it that we try and explain male violence as consequential of mental illness? Many women struggle with mental illness and rejection too, yet far less often resort to violent solutions. This isn't mental illness at work here folks, it's an ideology that says men are entitled to a yes answer.

The gap in violence between men and women is biological at its core. Men are more prone to violence because of testosterone. Put testosterone together with mental illness, and it gets nasty. Women can certainly be violent as well, but again, differences in these aggregate trends come down to biology, not social constructs or ideology.
That being said, culture can intensify violence. However, if we compare this culture to most others, violence toward women here is significantly lower than in a lot of other cultures. Islamic cultures, in particular, tend to be the most violent against women.

Rationalist
05-15-2019, 11:56 PM
He's as crazy as a bedbug. The question is, why has he been allowed to run around with the freedom to cause injury and death? Rhetorical question - answer, because until that individual commits murder, no one wants to spend the money to keep the rest of society safe.
Well, there are other factors involved. Sometimes, political correctness plays a part. The race card sometimes gets pulled in situations where law enforcement should be involved, but police don't want to deal with the blowback.

There are plenty of examples of law enforcement going too far, but there are other cases where law enforcement was justified in using force -- and riots or protests still happen anyway.

The decline of public mental health spending happened around the same time that involuntary commitment got a bad rap. A lot of the reformers of mental health a few decades ago have, in hindsight, made many mistakes.

So while money is part of the equation, so is the change in perception of when the state can acceptably intervene.

Rationalist
05-16-2019, 12:00 AM
Generally speaking, communities and families are the strongest regulators of human behavior. So if a particular human is acting out like this, it's probably because they lack strong community and family networks.

In most cases, yes. Granted, there are people who are so twisted mentally that involuntary commitment is about the only option. Thankfully, these people are statistical outliers.

Rationalist
05-16-2019, 12:11 AM
I'm of a somewhat less pessimistic view than this. I don't believe that the disproportionate inclination toward violence that we see from men as a class is at all inevitable, and that as much is shown in the simple fact that most men don't do things like what was described in the OP. So I have faith that things can be changed for the better.
My opinion is that the main reason why women are less inclined toward violent solutions as a class is because we are socialized that way and men are not. Men are socialized to be a dominant class and violence has to be acceptable for any dominant class to exercise and conversely unacceptable for the subordinate class. If we socialize boys differently (and penalize men equally for committing violent crimes, incidentally, as women who commit violent crimes seem more likely to actually be convicted), then I think we would see the statistical differences between men and women overall on violent behavior come more into alignment. I really think that possessing more testosterone content accounts for very little of that difference.
I wouldn't say it's pessimism. It's a just a realization that men and women are very different. One of the more counterintuitive things about culture is that men and women actually tend to become more different from each other physically in societies that are the most feminist. Traditional societies have the least sexually dimorphic people. The evidence seems to suggest that, when men and women are freest to act as they please, they pursue extremes in physical differences -- and this even extends into career choices. It's often lamented that there aren't enough women in STEM in the West, and people point out that more women are proportionally in STEM in many non-Western societies. What people don't seem to realize is this is due to freedom of choice. Few women choose to go into STEM if they have a lot of opportunities elsewhere -- particularly in jobs that are more people-oriented. Few of these service and people-oriented jobs are available in poorer economies, so STEM is among the few good-paying fields of opportunity outside of the West.

Getting back to the violence thing, men basically just respond to personal crises differently from women. This is true regardless of culture. Socialization only goes so far. What this means is that we just have to make sure that mental illness is properly identified and remedied. It also means that we need to have proper security measures in place to deal with violent people. Some of this means encouraging people to be armed for self-defense.

Rationalist
05-16-2019, 12:20 AM
Were the rates of violent crime lower in the 1940s though?

That the mental health condition of the U.S. population today explains very little about the violent crime that remains is my point. I struggle with more than one mental illness and have thus far attempted to murder no one in the course of my life. And although I'm a strong proponent of gun ownership, I'd concede that even gun possession explains only a finite amount of it (as it's irrelevant to this particular case, for example). The single most common thing that murderers, rapists, and terrorists tend to have in common isn't that they are mentally ill or even that they have guns in their possession, but that they are one-sidedly (as in more than 80%) male. That's a problem that we should think about as a society, I believe. We need to think about how we socialize boys in order to actually solve problems like these, I believe.
Violent crime has actually gone down in recent decades. It peaked in the 80s, but it's consistently declined ever since. Granted, because mass shootings are up, it may seem like the opposite due to media coverage. Overall shootings are down. Sex crimes are also down.

Many hypotheses have been posited for this, but one is that the incarceration rate is so high that it might be keeping a lot of violent offenders from repeating their crimes (at least until they are released). Granted, it might also be that some areas are reporting crime to the cops less.

Granted, again, if you look at crime stats of any era that we have the records for, men commit most of the violent crime. That makes it hard for me to believe that, somehow, we can change this via culture.

Rationalist
05-16-2019, 12:23 AM
I agree with you on this, which is why I've been expressing faith that things don't have to be this way. But at the same time, when you look at incels as a political grouping of people, one has to concede that there is definitely a disproportionate tendency toward violent behavior to be found therein compared to just about all other political communities that exist and operate in this country. I mean seriously, white nationalists seem to be the only more violence-prone political community in this country, statistically speaking; the only political community responsible for more murders and assaults in North America in the last two years. I doubt that that's just a coincidence. You should seriously visit the main incel message boards whenever things like what's described in the OP happen and see what the reaction is. It's a very different reaction than what we see here or anywhere else. There are always threads praising the violence in response.
I mean most ISIS members have never actually committed acts of violence themselves either. That doesn't mean they opposed them or weren't attempting to facilitate them or that ISIS is an okay organization that should be legal!

Incels have problems, although they don't really have a defined ideology of violence. That's one of the fundamental differences between them and a hate group.

Rationalist
05-16-2019, 12:31 AM
My view is that transgenderism is consequential of the ideology of gender. Gender is a conservative ideology that says males are this way (dominant) and females are that way (subordinate). Thus, one who fails to conform to their prescribed social roles can become convinced that it's because they somehow metaphysically belong to the other sex. Gender ideology was re-popularized in its current form by $#@! movement theorists in the 1990s and has been streamlined onto the phones of the masses in the age of social media (i.e. today). It hinges on the Victorian era theory of the "male brain" and "female brain", which is probably nonsense you yourself passionately believe in.

Solving transgenderism means allowing for gender-nonconformity; it means not calling boys "$#@!" for playing with dolls and not referring to girls as "boys" for preferring toy trucks or video games, for example. Transgenderism is symptomatic of the fact that we need to broaden out and de-metaphysicalize our concepts of what it is to be male and female respectively. You see what I'm saying?
The only difference between you and a transgender movement activist in this area is that you subscribe to an older form of gender ideology that stresses the importance of gender-conforming behavior rather than gender-conforming identity. A difference of stress isn't a difference of principle.
There are core components of gender that don't vary between culture. Some of gender is cultural, but it has biological elements as well.

While much of masculinity corresponds with dominance and much of femininity corresponds with submission, there are obvious cases of this not being the case even with traditional culture. Traditional men most certainly tend to forsake their own self-preservation in favor of protecting women and children during crises, for example. Historically, this is part of why men were drafted and women were not.

This tendency for men to be protectors of women and children goes back to ancient times, however, and it displays itself even in non-traditional cultures.

There is some room for flexibility in terms of gender roles (as shown by the last century), but there are certain constants as well.