Conservatives Stunned by Mueller Suggesting Trump Is Not Innocent

[alexa]

Robert Mueller’s brief, eight-minute remarks (http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/mueller-trump-is-not-not-a-criminal.html) on Wednesday about his investigation left the non-conservatives who closely follow his work fairly nonplussed. Mueller was simply reiterating things he had already written in his report. Conservatives, on the other hand, erupted in outrage.What so vexed the right about Mueller’s curt affirmation of his previous conclusions? The answer, as we’ll see, seems to be that they believed their own propaganda about what Mueller had (and had not) found. Presented even briefly with reality, their minds have reeled in shock.


Mueller produced massive evidence that President Trump committed Nixonian-scale obstruction of justice in office. But Department of Justice policy prevented him from charging a sitting president with a crime, and Mueller reportedly believes (http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/mueller-trump-is-not-not-a-criminal.html) he can’t openly state that this policy prevented him from accusing Trump of crimes. Mueller views his job as sending his evidence to Congress without prejudice, where the impeachment mechanism serves as a substitute for the jury trial that such crimes would normally call for.


Trump, William Barr, and the Republican Party followed a strategy of systematically lying about this. Barr repeatedly (http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/mueller-trump-is-not-not-a-criminal.html) suggested that Mueller, rather than being unable to charge Trump with crimes, simply didn’t have enough evidence of misconduct to make up his mind. By all indications, the conservative intelligentsia has failed to read the report and believes the misleading spin emanating from the president and his loyal attorney general.


Shortly after Mueller finished speaking, National Review’s Charles C.W. Cooke (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/not-exonerated-is-not-a-standard-any-free-country-should-accept/) complained, “Investigators are supposed to look for evidence that a crime was committed, and, if they don’t find enough to contend that a crime was committed, they are supposed to say ‘We didn’t find enough to contend that a crime was committed’ … If a person doesn’t have enough evidence that someone committed a crime to contend that a crime was committed, he is obliged to presume his innocence.”


Of course. But the explanation for this apparent paradox, which apparently hasn’t crossed Cooke’s mind, is that Mueller does have evidence that Trump committed crimes. Pages and pages and pages of evidence, in fact.


And as silly and basic as his error may be, fellow conservatives followed the same fundamentally mistaken premise. “By implying that President Trump might have committed obstruction of justice, Mueller effectively invited Democrats to institute impeachment proceedings,” writes a stunned Alan Dershowitz. “Obstruction of justice is a ‘high crime and misdemeanor’ which, under the Constitution, authorizes impeachment and removal of the president.”


Right. Mueller found clear and extensive evidence that Trump committed high crimes and misdemeanors. Dershowitz proceeds from his confusion to complain that Mueller’s insinuation that Trump committed high crimes could only be resolved through “a full adversarial trial with a zealous defense attorney, vigorous cross-examination, exclusionary rules of evidence, and other due process safeguards.” That process is called impeachment. Dershowitz is describing the reason why Mueller is leaving the decision to prosecute the crimes he discovered to Congress. Because Dershowitz cannot surrender his belief in Trump’s innocence, he sees Mueller as carrying out an unfathomable Kafkaesque travesty, rather than a straightforward application of the system of processing presidential crimes.


http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/conservatives-stunned-by-mueller-implying-trump-not-innocent.html


Arguing from ignorance never works out well. Read the report.

[Lummy]

He is simply trying to keep alive the false narrative of his party of outlaws. You're at least bright enough to discern that?

[Mister D]

He is simply trying to keep alive the false narrative of his party of outlaws. You're at least bright enough to discern that?
Be gentle. delexa considers himself a reasonably intelligent man but after believing this preposterous narrative it must be difficult to maintain your self-respect.

[AZ Jim]

He is simply trying to keep alive the false narrative of his party of outlaws. You're at least bright enough to discern that?His party is Republican.

[Boris The Animal]

Be gentle. delexa considers himself a reasonably intelligent man but after believing this preposterous narrative it must be difficult to maintain your self-respect.
Don't you mean Dyslexa? :D

[Boris The Animal]

His party is Republican.^^^Wants permanent one party Leftist rule, amirite, Jimbo^^^

[The Xl]

What's stunning about it? It was obvious from the beginning that he was out to get Trump

[MMC]

LMAO.....so much for that theory about Conservatives are stunned. Message to the New Yorker. Come out from Lala Land. Use a pin and break free from the bubble.



One of the most common and pointed critiques of Mueller's unexpected performance is that he inverted the role of a prosecutor on the question of guilt vs. "exoneration." Here's a quote from Mueller's question-free press conference: “If we had had confidence that the president had clearly not committed a crime we would have said so.” Charles Cooke of National Review responds (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/not-exonerated-is-not-a-standard-any-free-country-should-accept/):


That’s not how it works in America. Investigators are supposed to look for evidence that a crime was committed, and, if they don’t find enough to contend that a crime was a committed, they are supposed to say “We didn’t find enough to contend that a crime was committed.” They are not supposed to look for evidence that a crime was not committed and then say, “We couldn’t find evidence of innocence." I understand that Mueller was in an odd position. I understand, too, that this wasn’t a criminal trial. But I don’t think those norms are rendered any less important by those facts...If a person doesn’t have enough evidence that someone committed a crime to contend that a crime was committed, he is obliged to presume his innocence. “Not exonerated” is not a standard in our system, and it shouldn’t be one in our culture, either.


At The Federalist, Sean Davis cites some of the relevant policies and guidelines (https://thefederalist.com/2019/05/29/mueller-just-proved-his-entire-operation-was-a-political-hit-job-that-trampled-the-rule-of-law/#.XO7Eeeathj0.twitter) Mueller (and Comey (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/07/06/analysis-the-fbi-directors-devastating-indictmentless-indictment-of-hillary-clinton-n2188349)) violated in their public remarks about high-profile probes into political figures, neither of which led to resulting criminal charges:


DOJ guidelines expressly prohibit the actions of both Comey and Mueller in naming and shaming individuals who were never formally charged with any wrongdoing. “As a series of cases makes clear, there is ordinarily ‘no legitimate governmental interest served’ by the government’s public allegation of wrongdoing by an uncharged party, and this is true ‘regardless of what criminal charges may . . . b[e] contemplated by the Assistant United States Attorney against the [third-party] for the future,'” states DOJ’s formal policy manual on the duties of federal prosecutors and principles of federal prosecutions. Nationwide bar rules governing all practicing attorneys in the United States also explicitly prohibit Mueller’s display during Wednesday’s press conference. “The prosecutor in a criminal case shall … refrain from making extrajudicial comments that have a substantial likelihood of heightening public condemnation of the accused,” states Rule 3.8(f) of the American Bar Association’s rules of professional conduct. Multiple federal agents and prosecutors reached out to The Federalist after Mueller’s press conference to express dismay at the former FBI director’s behavior.


Mollie
✔ @MZHemingway
(https://twitter.com/MZHemingway)

(https://twitter.com/MZHemingway/status/1133790696203259904)

Mueller Just Proved His Entire Operation Was A Lawless Political Hit Job https://thefederalist.com/2019/05/29/mueller-just-proved-his-entire-operation-was-a-political-hit-job-that-trampled-the-rule-of-law/#.XO7Eeeathj0.twitter … (https://t.co/Vo7g8WuULI)



As for the official opposition party, this by and large captures my sentiments (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/democrats-should-impeach-trump-or-shut-up):



Philip Klein
✔ @philipaklein
(https://twitter.com/philipaklein)

(https://twitter.com/philipaklein/status/1134149351150903296)

My column: "Democrats should impeach Trump or shut up" https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/democrats-should-impeach-trump-or-shut-up … (https://t.co/K9JHFw8peQ) …..snip~


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2019/05/30/dershowitz-muellers-public-statement-proved-his-partisanship-n2547100




Emphasis on the Demos being told to Shut up. :laugh:

[Tahuyaman]

Be gentle. delexa considers himself a reasonably intelligent man but after believing this preposterous narrative it must be difficult to maintain your self-respect.
Delexa. That's good. I'd like to settle it once and for all. Is alexa a male or female?

[Tahuyaman]

His party is Republican.
His loyalties are with the establishment. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

[Don29palms]

Demonrats are stunned that Mueller didn't say Trump is guilty so they just keep making shit up.

[Common]

No one pays attention to this crap anymore

[AZ Jim]

He is simply trying to keep alive the false narrative of his party of outlaws. You're at least bright enough to discern that?He is a Republican....

[MMC]

He is a Republican....

Registered Republican.....and the last time was in 2001. But funny how all the Democrats voted for him under BO the Peep.


Kind of like how Chris Wallace is a Registered Democrat, huh?

[Safety]

Be gentle. delexa considers himself a reasonably intelligent man but after believing this preposterous narrative it must be difficult to maintain your self-respect.


Don't you mean Dyslexa? :D


Delexa. That's good. I'd like to settle it once and for all. Is alexa a male or female?

Can't wait for the next time these hacks complain about trolling or off topic posts.

[Tahuyaman]

He is a Republican....
He's an establishment loyalist.

[Safety]

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/conservatives-stunned-by-mueller-implying-trump-not-innocent.html


Arguing from ignorance never works out well. Read the report.

What do you expect from the same crowd that donates money for a wall that went to someone's yacht, or touts themselves as being the "law and order" faction but wants to be ruled over by a king.

[Tahuyaman]

No one is stunned. This has come out about as expected. The only thing which suprised me is that Mueller actually concluded his investigation. I expected it to go on at least until the 2020 election.

[MMC]

No one is stunned. This has come out about as expected. The only thing which suprised me is that Mueller actually concluded his investigation. I expected it to go on at least until the 2020 election.

Well no Repubs are stunned. Although Demos are stunned that Dershowitz came out saying Mueller had proved he was partisan.

[Tahuyaman]

Can't wait for the next time these hacks complain about trolling or off topic posts.
Keep trying.

[Tahuyaman]

What do you expect from the same crowd that donates money for a wall that went to someone's yacht, or touts themselves as being the "law and order" faction but wants to be ruled over by a king.

That's firmly on topic.

[jimmyz]

Meuller found no Russian/Trump collusion... good.
Meuller could not prosecute Trump for obstruction... he could not prosecute Trump even if Trump did... as it should be.

I do think Trump discussed this prosecution and directed things behind the scenes to help save his administration. He just cannot be locked-up for it.

I look forward to an impeachment in the House and a Trump victory in 2020.

[texan]

His party is Republican.
In this case you have to admit h is a never Trumper. I will make a side note. It’s odd a “republican” hired all Democrats to work for him. Hum.

[Captdon]

Delexa. That's good. I'd like to settle it once and for all. Is alexa a male or female?

She a black woman.

[Captdon]

Can't wait for the next time these hacks complain about trolling or off topic posts.

That would be about you the next time you lose your argument.

[Tahuyaman]

In this case you have to admit h is a never Trumper. I will make a side note. It’s odd a “republican” hired all Democrats to work for him. Hum.
He hired establishment supporters who also had a desire to remove Trump from office.

[Captdon]

What do you expect from the same crowd that donates money for a wall that went to someone's yacht, or touts themselves as being the "law and order" faction but wants to be ruled over by a king.

Fiction writer.

[Tahuyaman]

She a black woman.
Why do you say that?

[Tahuyaman]

...I do think Trump discussed this prosecution and directed things behind the scenes to help save his administration...

First, there was no prosecution. Second, how could he direct things pertaining to Mueller’s investigation behind the scenes?

[jimmyz]

First, there was no prosecution. Second, how could he direct things pertaining to Mueller’s investigation behind the scenes?

All POTUS have had meetings to discuss issues with their advisers and how best to do battle against their persecutors.

[Tahuyaman]

All POTUS have had meetings to discuss issues with their advisers and how best to do battle against their persecutors.
How is that directing the investigation behind the scenes? He is allowed to defend himself, right?

[jimmyz]

How is that directing the investigation behind the scenes? He is allowed to defend himself, right?

Trump directed his defense was my point not "the investigation" You misunderstood what I posted. vvv

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jimmyz http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2613925#post2613925)
...I do think Trump discussed this prosecution and directed things behind the scenes to help save his administration

[Tahuyaman]

Trump directed his defense was my point not "the investigation" You misunderstood what I posted. vvv

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jimmyz http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2613925#post2613925)
...I do think Trump discussed this prosecution and directed things behind the scenes to help save his administration
What’s the problem with directing your defense?

[jimmyz]

What’s the problem with directing your defense?

I don't have a problem. I support Trump.

[Jeb!]

He is innocent. Lol at this clown thread.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't have a problem. I support Trump.
I don’t know why you made the comment in the first place.

[MMC]

Well.....doesn't look like Conservatives were stunned at all. Just another leftist emoting delusions of grandeur. /thread.

[Captdon]

Why do you say that?

Read her posts. We can tell she's a woman. Her use of the term "white boys" is a giveaway. Only blacks use that term.

[Captdon]

All POTUS have had meetings to discuss issues with their advisers and how best to do battle against their persecutors.

Persecutors and prosecutors are not the same. Words matter.

[Captdon]

He is a Republican....

He hired two Clinton associates for his team. That's your idea of an unbiased investigation? It's what the KGB used to do. You need to think before you post.

[Captdon]

That's firmly on topic.

You do better when you allow Alexa to do your thinking. Let's face it, you suck at it.

[Tahuyaman]

You do better when you allow Alexa to do your thinking. Let's face it, you suck at it.
WTF is wrong with you? I'm sure Safety appreciates you trying to defend him.