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IMPress Polly
02-13-2013, 12:14 PM
Every year, the American president delivers a State of the Union Address, which is generally used to compliment himself on a job well done thus far and lay out his specific policy goals for the year ahead. President Obama's State of the Union Address for 2013, made last night, was no exception.

As I discussed last month, the inaugural address is generally considered to be a president's broad statement of principles and general goals to be achieved over the next four years, whereas the State of the Union translates some of those principles into concrete policy ideas for the year to come. The former is an ideological speech, while the latter is more practical in nature and spirit. The president's State of the Union Address last night though was notable for the sheer breadth of policy ideas the president proposed. None of the legislation and direct executive actions he proposed were particularly radical (indeed they all seemed carefully poll-tested), but they did skew left-of-center in general (in keeping with the tone of his recent, very communitarian inaugural speech) and there were a lot of them. I mean a lot. Enough to where it seems unlikely that the president will be able accomplish the majority of them within the next year's time, though they are all quite temperate proposals. Specifically, President Obama proposed that the federal minimum wage be raised to $9 an hour and permanently indexed to the cost of living, that initiative be taken to make preschool education universal (whereas presently less than 3 out of 5 American children gets preschool education), that the Congress pass a new infrastructure bill, that tax loopholes for corporations and the rich be closed, that the Violence Against Women Act be belatedly renewed, that Congress at last pass the Paycheck Fairness Act (women's rights legislation to establish equal pay for work that produces equal value, not just for the exact same jobs), that immigration reform that includes a pathway to citizenship for the nation's 11 million undocumented immigrants be passed, and that Congress at least take a vote on all the gun control measures he has been campaigning for since the Sandy Hook massacre (including a ban on the future sale of assault rifles). The president also announced that 34,000 more U.S. troops will be pulled out of Afghanistan by this time next year. That's half the total number of American troops occupying that country at present. He also notably confirmed that our direct role in the Afghanistan War would definitely be concluded altogether by the end of next year. And while he talked a tough, imperial game on foreign policy more broadly, he tempered these sentiments by remarking that outright war and full-scale occupations should be avoided in the future and by defending his plan to dismantle a significant amount of our nuclear arsenal in concert with Russia doing the same for their side. Obama also announced his renewed support for cap-and-trade policies to address global warming by limiting carbon emissions through, as he aptly put it, "market-based" means, and furthermore envisioned a future without any oil consumption at all. President Obama also spoke at some length to the latest budget crisis gripping Washington: the automatic across-the-board spending cuts the president wrongly agreed to in 2011 as part of a deal to raise the debt ceiling. These cuts are set to go into effect on March 1st if no action is taken. Half the cuts in this "sequester" are cuts to public welfare programs (food stamps, unemployment insurance, public education, and so on) and half are cutbacks in the rate of military expenditure of a size that would require our government to close certain bases abroad and patrol certain seas with fewer ships. I can very much support the latter (the military cuts), but not the former ( the public welfare cuts). If they should go into effect, these automatic across-the-board spending cuts would very likely cause another economic recession. One can thus easily see the need to avoid them somehow. Yet I cannot same that I'm open to the president's solution, which is a proposal for a "grand bargain" with the Republicans on the national debt. To put it in direct fiscal terms, the president has already agreed to some $2.5 trillion in deficit reduction over the next decade, only about one-third of which comes from raising tax revenues. By contrast, the president is proposing to temporarily slow the rate of cuts in order to avoid a recession, but at the same time, to ultimately cut the deficit by $4 trillion over the next decade, with about half the difference coming from tax hikes on corporations and the super-rich in general and less than is currently scheduled in military cuts. Such a proposal is really just as bad, if not worse, IMO.

I would characterize the contents of the president's speech as 75% progressive. All in all, this was an unusually high-quality speech by the president, though naturally I could find things to disagree with. The policy ideas here weren't generally ambitious in nature when taken separately, but the collective whole of them presents what, for a single-year agenda, nevertheless constitutes a very ambitious set of goals indeed. The sheer scope of President Obama's 2013 agenda laid out last night was inspiring in its own right. We will see what of it becomes law.

(Most analysts agree that the high water mark of the speech was definitely the moment toward the end when he sought to address the topic of gun violence using a powerful emotional appeal that roused most of Congress to a sustained standing ovation, cheers, and tears. It goes to highlight what I pointed out before: that emotional appeals can indeed, used appropriately, be more effective than simple statements of fact and data.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKwE2EGsfMk
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As a follow-up, below you will find the Republican Party's official response to the president's State of the Union Address, presented by Florida Senator Marco Rubio. As I've mentioned recently, I'm strongly convinced Mr. Rubio will be running for president himself in 2016 and that this was an attempt to set the stage for that run on his part, and an effort by his party to give him the opportunity to prove himself capable of winning a presidential election. To give him proper credit, this probably was his best speech ever in terms of the quality of delivery. He made it personal (and thus human) at more than one point and spoke fairly eloquently and as inoffensively as his message would allow. It seemed though that Mr. Rubio was responding to a different speech. Mr. Rubio offered few specific policy alternatives to those the president presented. Mostly he just spoke in right wing ideological platitudes about the proper role of government and such. The State of the Union Address is about concrete policy ideas for the year ahead, not worldviews. Let me suggest that an appropriate and convincing response would also therefore be more essentially about proposing concrete policy ideas, not just politely whining about the natural evils of excessive government or whatever and the need for more than twice the budget austerity the president has aimed for (i.e. guaranteed, long-lasting recession). It seemed as though Mr. Rubio were in essence speaking not so much to the nation as specifically to Republican primary voters -- the GOP base -- such as to reassure them of his ideological fidelity. There was nothing in this speech that I could possibly agree with aside from Rubio's brief remarks in support of immigration reform. I therefore conclude that it was not intended to be an outreach speech so much as a far right persuasion speech. Here you go...

[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLmZbBh83-I (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DCKwE2EGsfMk&h=0AQEyJQsA&s=1)

Cigar
02-13-2013, 12:15 PM
This clearly explains the high anxiety and anger on the forum today :wink:

IMPress Polly
02-13-2013, 12:16 PM
...But the mere fact that Marco Rubio has long been supported by the Tea Party movement within the Republican Party failed to prevent Tea Party Express from presenting a separate response of their own to President Obama's State of the Union Address. (Such is the posturing nature of such extreme ideologues.) Their alternative version was delivered by libertarian Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, notable for running for his seat in 2010 on a proposal to abolish the Department of Education. If you found Mr. Rubio's speech entertaining, you'll find this one laugh-out-loud ridiculous. Why? Because it was so pointless. There was almost no substantive difference between Mr. Rubio's speech and Mr. Paul's, save for on tax policy (Mr. Paul believes that corporate and personal income tax rates should be cut in half in what hardly sounds like a serious deficit-reduction proposal). The main difference was simply in the style of presentation. Mr. Paul was much more hostile, even speaking at one point of kingly rule on Obama's part and accusing him directly of violating the constitution). Such rhetoric may be very much in the spirit of the Tea Party movement (and indeed of extreme ideologues generally on both sides of the aisle), but it will not get you taken all that seriously on the broader national stage. In other words, this most certainly was NOT a presidential speech. Not even close. I have predicted that Rand Paul will run for president himself in 2016. He may run, but he definitely won't win. Anyway, here's the speech Mr. Paul made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCjSCEHoOKQ

Chris
02-13-2013, 12:21 PM
It's a long-winded highly biased blog entry by someone full of themselves, when this is a forum for discussion.

Where, cigar, do you see anxiety and fear?

Chris
02-13-2013, 12:25 PM
If you found Mr. Rubio's speech entertaining, you'll find this one laugh-out-loud ridiculous. Why? Because it was so pointless.

And then you proceed to summarize his points. Nice contradiction, shallow synopsis. All you really say is you don't like Paul.

Cigar
02-13-2013, 12:28 PM
It's a long-winded highly biased blog entry by someone full of themselves, when this is a forum for discussion.

Where, cigar, do you see anxiety and fear?

You have my sympathies ... but someone had to lose ... better luck next Election.

JackRuby
02-13-2013, 12:41 PM
I don't see any union to have a statement about. Minority rules. Monied minority.

Jack

Chris
02-13-2013, 12:47 PM
You have my sympathies ... but someone had to lose ... better luck next Election.

So you see nothing here to defend either.

Chris
02-13-2013, 12:48 PM
I don't see any union to have a statement about. Minority rules. Monied minority.

Jack

How could that happen without a government united in corruption?

IMPress Polly
02-13-2013, 12:53 PM
Look, I can write cheap one-liners too!

Carygrant
02-13-2013, 12:55 PM
Well written Polly . What an excellent and lucid summary .
This is the minimum that an International Forum should provide .
It may be that the majority of contributors are not used to so many words in one short burst , but the day we are defined by contributor inadequacies would be one to be severely embarrassed over .
It was reported very positively in the UK and the collective policies represent a proud moment in the development of the US -- it really seems to us that you have a real opportunity to make up lost ground in so many areas of critical social , and , therefore , national importance .

Cigar
02-13-2013, 12:55 PM
So you see nothing here to defend either.

What's to defend ... when your candidate won back-2-back majority elections, when you can just sit back and watch the losers whine for 8 years.

Chris
02-13-2013, 12:58 PM
Look, I can write cheap one-liners too!

Beats long-winded nonsense.

Chris
02-13-2013, 12:59 PM
What's to defend ... when your candidate won back-2-back majority elections, when you can just sit back and watch the losers whine for 8 years.

Uh, cigar, we're not talking about the election (it was not my candidate), we're talking about the SOTU and polly's long-winded statement she likes it.

Chris
02-13-2013, 01:01 PM
Well written Polly . What an excellent and lucid summary .
This is the minimum that an International Forum should provide .
It may be that the majority of contributors are not used to so many words in one short burst , but the day we are defined by contributor inadequacies would be one to be severely embarrassed over .
It was reported very positively in the UK and the collective policies represent a proud moment in the development of the US -- it really seems to us that you have a real opportunity to make up lost ground in so many areas of critical social , and , therefore , national importance .

Another instance of a lot of words to say nothing more than "I agree".

Polly: "I like it."
Cigar: "Me too."
Cary: "I agree."

No substance.

Cigar
02-13-2013, 01:02 PM
Uh, cigar, we're not talking about the election (it was not my candidate), we're talking about the SOTU and polly's long-winded statement she likes it.

I wouldn't expect anyone who didn't vote for The President to like the SOTU speech ... they never do.

Cigar
02-13-2013, 01:05 PM
Another instance of a lot of words to say nothing more than "I agree".

Polly: "I like it."
Cigar: "Me too."
Cary: "I agree."

No substance.


Let me guess ... you all got together and decided to amend the Thread Count to include a Post Character Minimum :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Chris
02-13-2013, 01:06 PM
I wouldn't expect anyone who didn't vote for The President to like the SOTU speech ... they never do.

In another thread I substantiated my disapproval of the SOTU's lies. Here, let me repost here:

Let's look at specifics of what Obama said then, cigar:


It is difficult to say with certainly which of the many whoppers President Obama told tonight took the most crust to utter, but my money is going on this assertion, made a few minutes into the speech: “Already, the Affordable Care Act is helping to slow the growth of health care costs.” I know “Orwellian” has now become rather hackneyed, but there is simply no other adjective that better describes this statement. It is not merely a lie. It is the precise opposite of the truth. It is just as absurd as “war is peace” or “freedom is slavery.”

...

Listening to Obama’s address on Tuesday night, I was reminded of something I read last week from Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s Letters and Papers from Prison. Bonhoeffer was, of course, a German theologian who lived during the Hitler era. Unlike today’s progressive poseurs, he spoke truth to power when it cost something. While sitting in a cell, awaiting death for that crime, he wrote: “For evil to appear disguised as light, charity, historical necessity, or social justice is quite bewildering to anyone brought up on our traditional ethical concepts.”
No, I’m not comparing Obama to Hitler. But I am saying that the never-ending stream of prevarication that emanates from the White House and its media toadies is indeed bewildering to anyone who tries to live honestly. And most of the propaganda is specifically designed to camouflage crimes against democracy like Obamacare. That abomination is not helping to slow the growth of health care costs. It is driving them through the roof. Obama lied yet again.

@ Obama’s Most Audacious SOTU Lie (http://spectator.org/archives/2013/02/13/obamas-most-audacious-sotu-lie)


You failed to defend Obama in that thread and I doubt you can in this.

Cigar
02-13-2013, 01:08 PM
In another thread I substantiated my disapproval of the SOTU's lies. Here, let me repost here:

Let's look at specifics of what Obama said then, cigar:



@ Obama’s Most Audacious SOTU Lie (http://spectator.org/archives/2013/02/13/obamas-most-audacious-sotu-lie)


You failed to defend Obama in that thread and I doubt you can in this.



I don't feel I need to defend The President on "anything" he said during the SOTU speech ... does that help you?

Carygrant
02-13-2013, 01:08 PM
What's to defend ... when your candidate won back-2-back majority elections, when you can just sit back and watch the losers whine for 8 years.


We all know how much old white men hate even the thought of change .I guess most of them here have had difficult and unbalanced lives because , like Scrooge , they seem to have little liking for compassion and social advances , even when financially regulated and monitored .
Let's hope the new generation are men that we can respect even with political differences separating us in many areas .

Chris
02-13-2013, 01:20 PM
We all know how much old white men hate even the thought of change .I guess most of them here have had difficult and unbalanced lives because , like Scrooge , they seem to have little liking for compassion and social advances , even when financially regulated and monitored .
Let's hope the new generation are men that we can respect even with political differences separating us in many areas .

"Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει" ("Everything flows, nothing stands still.")
~Ηράκλειτος (Heraclitus)

The question is whether change is done prudently or impulsively.

Carygrant
02-13-2013, 01:45 PM
The question is whether change is done prudently or impulsively.

Amen to that .
But sometimes when matters are serious , an impulsive Kick start is required . Maggie Thatcher of sainted memory pulled Great Britain back from an abyss of failure .
She was ------ and still is ---- hated by those who saw only her mistakes but could not even glimpse the bigger picture .
The parallel with America and the saintly smelling Obama is irresistible .

Chris
02-13-2013, 01:48 PM
Amen to that .
But sometimes when matters are serious , an impulsive Kick start is required . Maggie Thatcher of sainted memory pulled Great Britain back from an abyss of failure .
She was ------ and still is ---- hated by those who saw only her mistakes but could not even glimpse the bigger picture .
The parallel with America and the saintly smelling Obama is irresistible .

Thatcher's conservatism is admirable, contrary to your mistaken views.


But sometimes when matters are serious , an impulsive Kick start is required .

I see you're of an impulsive lean.

JackRuby
02-13-2013, 02:05 PM
Look, I can write cheap one-liners too!

Less can certainly be more especially with words. Then again, only an educated person would have learned that.

Jack

Carygrant
02-13-2013, 02:07 PM
I see you're of an impulsive lean.

Nearly all great people of talent are impulsive .
Why you imagine you have anything to teach me about Saint Margaret defies belief . The clue was , her Sainted memory .
I was there and instantly recognised her greatness well before she led even her own party . And in the same spirit I see Obama .
All three of us are 21st Conservatives though I stand as a man behind two Colossi .

Chris
02-13-2013, 02:33 PM
Nearly all great people of talent are impulsive .
Why you imagine you have anything to teach me about Saint Margaret defies belief . The clue was , her Sainted memory .
I was there and instantly recognised her greatness well before she led even her own party . And in the same spirit I see Obama .
All three of us are 21st Conservatives though I stand as a man behind two Colossi .

Except, cary, you're not great, you're quite ordinary.

And being impulsive you're liberal not conservative.

Chris
02-13-2013, 04:23 PM
We've heard from Obama, Rubio and Paul, now Palin...


If you missed President Obama’s State of the Union address last night, you didn’t miss much – especially if you watched any of his past four State of the Union addresses.

We heard the same recycled rhetoric, and we heard his Orwellian declaration that the cornucopia of new federal programs he proposed, as well as his intention to eradicate world poverty, wouldn’t “increase our deficit by a single dime.”

Of course, he glossed over the inconvenient facts. He boasted about job creation, but didn’t mention that real unemployment is higher today than when he took office. He touted all those still undiscovered “clean energy” jobs without mentioning the tens of thousands of real jobs the Keystone Pipeline will create if he would simply allow it to be built. He sang of new energy development, but didn’t mention that new offshore leases for oil and natural gas drilling have declined a decimating 61% under his administration.

He talked about “helping” to build “a thriving middle class,” but didn’t address how the middle class is actually faring under his economic stewardship. This is important – his deception must be addressed: under his leadership, middle class families have seen the average price per gallon of gas increase 96%, the average cost of family health care premiums rise 24%, the annual cost per household from federal regulations rise to over $15,000, and real median household income decline $4,520. If this is what happens when he “helps” the middle class, then please, Mr. President, we implore you to stop “helping” us.

He talked about a “balanced approach to deficit reduction” without mentioning that $5.9 trillion has already been added to the debt since he took office. We’re $16.5 trillion in debt and he keeps digging the hole deeper! He didn’t mention his record trillion dollar deficits or the fact that his last proposed budget would add $9.2 trillion to the debt through 2022. His Democrat-controlled Senate hasn’t passed a budget in four years. That’s obviously not “responsible” or “balanced.” He said, “We can’t cut our way to prosperity.” Well, we definitely can’t get there by borrowing and spending money we don’t have on his “investments” that don’t work. If indiscriminately borrowing and spending money led to prosperity, then bankruptcy would be a sign of economic strength. But it isn’t.

A State of the Union address should give us a true picture of the direction in which we are headed. But we didn’t get the truth last night. And it WAS Orwellian....

@ #SOTUGottaBKiddingMe (https://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/sotugottabkiddingme/10151303585018435)

Peter1469
02-13-2013, 05:14 PM
I would not agree that the concept of federalism and its associated limited powers is an abstract concept that has no place in a SOTU address (or rebuttal). For the last four years our federal government has spent ~$1.3T per year over tax revenues, the majority of which can't be legitimately tracked back to the federal government's Constitutional powers.

Then we can look to our state's SOTU address and see what our local governments want to do to govern in the areas not shifted to the federal government with the adoption of the US Constitution.

KC
02-14-2013, 12:32 AM
I finally listened to the whole thing (Note: listened, not watched. There's no way I could sit and watch any of the three guys who gave the SOTU/responses). As usual, I thought the President was a great speaker, a better one than either of the other two. I don't agree with much of what he said or offered, but if I try to hold back my bias, I have to admit that he does a great job of giving a speech.

Chris
02-14-2013, 06:55 AM
All you need to do is contrast the words of each. Naturally, those who believe in growing big government will applaud Obama and those who believe in Constitutionally limited government will applaud the others. Simple as that.



Competing economic visions

First, the president:
A year and a half ago, I put forward an American Jobs Act that independent economists said would create more than one million new jobs. I thank the last Congress for passing some of that agenda, and I urge this Congress to pass the rest. ...

There are things we can do, right now, to accelerate this trend. Last year, we created our first manufacturing innovation institute in Youngstown, Ohio. A once-shuttered warehouse is now a state-of-the art lab where new workers are mastering the 3D printing that has the potential to revolutionize the way we make almost everything. There’s no reason this can’t happen in other towns. So tonight, I’m announcing the launch of three more of these manufacturing hubs ...

Tonight, I propose a “Fix-It-First” program to put people to work as soon as possible on our most urgent repairs, like the nearly 70,000 structurally deficient bridges across the country.
From Sen Paul:
Ronald Reagan said, government is not the answer to the problem, government is the problem.

Tonight, the President told the nation he disagrees. President Obama believes government is the solution: More government, more taxes, more debt.

What the President fails to grasp is that the American system that rewards hard work is what made America so prosperous.

What America needs is not Robin Hood but Adam Smith. In the year we won our independence, Adam Smith described what creates the Wealth of Nations.

He described a limited government that largely did not interfere with individuals and their pursuit of happiness.
Sen. Rubio:
More government isn’t going to create more opportunities. It’s going to limit them.

And more government isn’t going to inspire new ideas, new businesses and new private sector jobs. It’s going to create uncertainty.

Because more government breeds complicated rules and laws that a small business can’t afford to follow.

Because more government raises taxes on employers who then pass the costs on to their employees through fewer hours, lower pay and even layoffs.


There are more contrasts @ Three State of the Union Visions: Obama, Rubio, and Paul (http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/13/three-state-of-the-union-visions-obama-r)

Alif Qadr
02-14-2013, 07:12 AM
It's a long-winded highly biased blog entry by someone full of themselves, when this is a forum for discussion.

Where, cigar, do you see anxiety and fear?

In himself, Chris. The self is the origin of all mental/psychological responses and sentiment. Something is obviously happening either in his personal life or from what he (Cigar) perceives is taking place around him and nationwide. Then again, this is just another one of my bloviations.

JackRuby
02-14-2013, 07:51 AM
In himself, Chris. The self is the origin of all mental/psychological responses and sentiment. Something is obviously happening either in his personal life or from what he (Cigar) perceives is taking place around him and nationwide. Then again, this is just another one of my bloviations.

Damn I thought Dr.Monty Ward was the nation's #1 psychologist until I read this! You have a "very psychological mind!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwPKYTEoo6Q

Jack