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View Full Version : We Don't Have a Debt Problem, We Have a Congress Problem



Conley
07-02-2011, 12:04 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/we-have-a-congress-problem-not-a-deficit-problem-in-one-graph/2011/05/19/AGVOXgtH_blog.html

"The single most important fact about our projected deficits is that if Congress does nothing, they go away. You might not like how they go away its mostly higher taxes and sharp cuts to Medicare but they go away. That means that the deficit problem were always talking about is a problem that we dont actually have yet. We just expect to have it once Congress finishes passing legislation that increases the deficit. Legislation like, say, an unpaid-for extension of the Bush tax cuts.

I asked Marc Goldwein, the policy director at the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, whether he could build out a graph showing exactly what deficit-creating policy decisions the Congressional Budget Office is expecting Congress to make, and how much of the fiscal gap they each account for. Turns out he could:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/ezra-klein/StandingArt/cfrb%20do%20nothing%20chart.jpg?uuid=0xrz_KP6EeCxG 385yZuJEA

Interesting points...what do you all think? Maybe we're not that close to armageddon, but at the same time no way in hell will the government slow down spending our money.

MMC
07-02-2011, 12:15 PM
Well do you think he included that chart on the premise of other countries paying off their debts to us?

Conley
07-02-2011, 12:26 PM
Well do you think he included that chart on the premise of other countries paying off their debts to us?


I don't see that on the legend, no. Which countries and which debt are you speaking of?

Mister D
07-02-2011, 01:05 PM
Well do you think he included that chart on the premise of other countries paying off their debts to us?


I don't see that on the legend, no. Which countries and which debt are you speaking of?


Aid? ???

MMC
07-02-2011, 01:32 PM
Well do you think he included that chart on the premise of other countries paying off their debts to us?


I don't see that on the legend, no. Which countries and which debt are you speaking of?


lol Any of them......which is why I asked the question as it is not on the chart.

Conley
07-02-2011, 01:55 PM
Well do you think he included that chart on the premise of other countries paying off their debts to us?


I don't see that on the legend, no. Which countries and which debt are you speaking of?


lol Any of them......which is why I asked the question as it is not on the chart.


I mean I don't know what countries owe us a significant amount of money (relative to our GDP and debt), or even if they exist. I do believe we owe a metric shit ton in bonds, owned by many foreign countries (Japan and China, for ex).

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

MMC
07-02-2011, 02:29 PM
Bosnia and Kosovo.....we up and gave them a billion dollars. Mexico Untold billions of dollars. Central and South American Countries. Any NFP's that we have in other countries. Plus we did save certain banking industries in other countries as well.

Conley
07-02-2011, 02:34 PM
Bosnia and Kosovo.....we up and gave them a billion dollars. Mexico Untold billions of dollars. Central and South American Countries. Any NFP's that we have in other countries. Plus we did save certain banking industries in other countries as well.


Oh...I would be pretty surprised to see any money come from Bosnia, Kosovo, Mexico, or the Americas. Depending on the form of the bank bailouts, I suppose we might see some return on that but it seems unlikely as well. I think our only two answers are cut spending and/or return taxes to the previous levels under Reagan and H.W. Bush.

Conley
07-02-2011, 02:37 PM
we shouldn't have to pay any more in taxes than we already do, and i don't trust the fed govt to spend the tax revenue responsibly, but if it was earmarked to pay down principle along with a spending freeze then i might agree to it. as it now a ridiculous percentage just goes toward paying the interest. it's like carrying a credit card with a massive balance from month to month. if we wait too long our country will collapse, and i don't want that for the next generation (or any for that matter)

MMC
07-02-2011, 02:47 PM
Bosnia and Kosovo.....we up and gave them a billion dollars. Mexico Untold billions of dollars. Central and South American Countries. Any NFP's that we have in other countries. Plus we did save certain banking industries in other countries as well.


Oh...I would be pretty surprised to see any money come from Bosnia, Kosovo, Mexico, or the Americas. Depending on the form of the bank bailouts, I suppose we might see some return on that but it seems unlikely as well. I think our only two answers are cut spending and/or return taxes to the previous levels under Reagan and H.W. Bush.


Yeah that is true....collecting is another thing. Personally I am not for allowing them to carry a larger debt to us, provided by us.

Conley
07-02-2011, 02:54 PM
Bosnia and Kosovo.....we up and gave them a billion dollars. Mexico Untold billions of dollars. Central and South American Countries. Any NFP's that we have in other countries. Plus we did save certain banking industries in other countries as well.


Oh...I would be pretty surprised to see any money come from Bosnia, Kosovo, Mexico, or the Americas. Depending on the form of the bank bailouts, I suppose we might see some return on that but it seems unlikely as well. I think our only two answers are cut spending and/or return taxes to the previous levels under Reagan and H.W. Bush.


Yeah that is true....collecting is another thing. Personally I am not for allowing them to carry a larger debt to us, provided by us.


agreed but i also think we need to enforce the laws on the books. i am not talking about making the middle class pay more. start by making GE pay what they rightfully owe instead of using offshore tax shelters. they received hundreds of millions in tax credits and made over 1B in profit, our government should not be using taxpayer money to pay them to move jobs to foreign countries, which in effect is what happened.

MMC
07-02-2011, 02:58 PM
Oh Hell yes.....and while we are at it lets talk to GE about trading with Iran. >:( Nice one there CL!

GRUMPY
07-02-2011, 06:55 PM
this so called debt crisis could well be our nation's salvation if only enough in congress have the strength of character and the common sense to say no to raising the debt ceiling....this would force govt to prioritize, ssec and the military with everything else being on the table....

wingrider
07-11-2011, 02:01 AM
the way I see it is we have to make congress prove they can live within a budget before we alow them any kind of tax increase.. history has proven that the more they take from us the more they spend and the more they borrow. they have to pass a balanced budget amendment or no deal.

MMC
07-11-2011, 09:08 AM
McConnell came right out and said it.....looks like he don't care what Boner has to say. We will see what the President says today on it. McConnell isnt budging yet.

Conley
07-11-2011, 12:14 PM
the way I see it is we have to make congress prove they can live within a budget before we alow them any kind of tax increase.. history has proven that the more they take from us the more they spend and the more they borrow. they have to pass a balanced budget amendment or no deal.


I agree with a balanced budget amendment, that's the only way we're going to get these guys to cut spending. I am worried though if they don't raise the debt ceiling in the short term if it will be financial Armageddon? Not sure if quitting cold turkey is the way to go here...like a bad alcoholic, the withdrawal symptoms can be fatal. :-\

GRUMPY
07-11-2011, 06:13 PM
the way I see it is we have to make congress prove they can live within a budget before we alow them any kind of tax increase.. history has proven that the more they take from us the more they spend and the more they borrow. they have to pass a balanced budget amendment or no deal.


I agree with a balanced budget amendment, that's the only way we're going to get these guys to cut spending. I am worried though if they don't raise the debt ceiling in the short term if it will be financial Armageddon? Not sure if quitting cold turkey is the way to go here...like a bad alcoholic, the withdrawal symptoms can be fatal. :-\

when was the last time govt in general and this dem party and administrative cabal in particular even provided a hat tip to the constitution boys and girls....the constitution and the rule of law mean nothing in dc....the only way to stop this now is to make sure that every congressman and senator knows that raising the debt ceiling is an application for unemployment.....by the way the graph provided is bs.....

Conley
07-11-2011, 06:20 PM
what's wrong with the graph ???

GRUMPY
07-11-2011, 06:24 PM
what's wrong with the graph ???

your graph is the guess work of someone based upon what he believes will be the guess work of someone else....

Conley
07-11-2011, 06:28 PM
what's wrong with the graph ???

your graph is the guess work of someone based upon what he believes will be the guess work of someone else....


:D ok...so why don't you make a better one? ;D

wingrider
07-12-2011, 01:30 AM
the way I see it is we have to make congress prove they can live within a budget before we alow them any kind of tax increase.. history has proven that the more they take from us the more they spend and the more they borrow. they have to pass a balanced budget amendment or no deal.


I agree with a balanced budget amendment, that's the only way we're going to get these guys to cut spending. I am worried though if they don't raise the debt ceiling in the short term if it will be financial Armageddon? Not sure if quitting cold turkey is the way to go here...like a bad alcoholic, the withdrawal symptoms can be fatal. :-\


it does not have to be a financial armegddon though.. all they have to do is pay the interest on the debt which is currently about 200 B a year (I think) currently the feds take in about 225 biion per month.. cut spending in a couple of areas for the short term in DOD and in giving money to people who hate us and we can then get to work on the long term projects..Just my Opinion though.

GRUMPY
07-12-2011, 06:51 AM
the way I see it is we have to make congress prove they can live within a budget before we alow them any kind of tax increase.. history has proven that the more they take from us the more they spend and the more they borrow. they have to pass a balanced budget amendment or no deal.


I agree with a balanced budget amendment, that's the only way we're going to get these guys to cut spending. I am worried though if they don't raise the debt ceiling in the short term if it will be financial Armageddon? Not sure if quitting cold turkey is the way to go here...like a bad alcoholic, the withdrawal symptoms can be fatal. :-\


it does not have to be a financial armegddon though.. all they have to do is pay the interest on the debt which is currently about 200 B a year (I think) currently the feds take in about 225 biion per month.. cut spending in a couple of areas for the short term in DOD and in giving money to people who hate us and we can then get to work on the long term projects..Just my Opinion though.

again refusing to raise the debt ceiling would actually force govt and the people to consider the fundamental responsibilities of govt.....this threatens the power structure of dc and shakes the core of some 50% of the population currently on the govt dole.....this event would also force a real reform/simplification of the tax codes again a strike at the heart of dc power....

wingrider
07-12-2011, 07:23 AM
the way I see it is we have to make congress prove they can live within a budget before we alow them any kind of tax increase.. history has proven that the more they take from us the more they spend and the more they borrow. they have to pass a balanced budget amendment or no deal.


I agree with a balanced budget amendment, that's the only way we're going to get these guys to cut spending. I am worried though if they don't raise the debt ceiling in the short term if it will be financial Armageddon? Not sure if quitting cold turkey is the way to go here...like a bad alcoholic, the withdrawal symptoms can be fatal. :-\


it does not have to be a financial armegddon though.. all they have to do is pay the interest on the debt which is currently about 200 B a year (I think) currently the feds take in about 225 biion per month.. cut spending in a couple of areas for the short term in DOD and in giving money to people who hate us and we can then get to work on the long term projects..Just my Opinion though.

again refusing to raise the debt ceiling would actually force govt and the people to consider the fundamental responsibilities of govt.....this threatens the power structure of dc and shakes the core of some 50% of the population currently on the govt dole.....this event would also force a real reform/simplification of the tax codes again a strike at the heart of dc power....


I don't see the downside of your post.. DC must be controlled, one wayor the other IMO

Conley
07-12-2011, 09:16 AM
the way I see it is we have to make congress prove they can live within a budget before we alow them any kind of tax increase.. history has proven that the more they take from us the more they spend and the more they borrow. they have to pass a balanced budget amendment or no deal.


I agree with a balanced budget amendment, that's the only way we're going to get these guys to cut spending. I am worried though if they don't raise the debt ceiling in the short term if it will be financial Armageddon? Not sure if quitting cold turkey is the way to go here...like a bad alcoholic, the withdrawal symptoms can be fatal. :-\


it does not have to be a financial armegddon though.. all they have to do is pay the interest on the debt which is currently about 200 B a year (I think) currently the feds take in about 225 biion per month.. cut spending in a couple of areas for the short term in DOD and in giving money to people who hate us and we can then get to work on the long term projects..Just my Opinion though.


that's a really good point. your plan sounds like a good one -- as long as we don't default on our loans then i have no problem with it.

GRUMPY
07-12-2011, 01:15 PM
the way I see it is we have to make congress prove they can live within a budget before we alow them any kind of tax increase.. history has proven that the more they take from us the more they spend and the more they borrow. they have to pass a balanced budget amendment or no deal.


I agree with a balanced budget amendment, that's the only way we're going to get these guys to cut spending. I am worried though if they don't raise the debt ceiling in the short term if it will be financial Armageddon? Not sure if quitting cold turkey is the way to go here...like a bad alcoholic, the withdrawal symptoms can be fatal. :-\


it does not have to be a financial armegddon though.. all they have to do is pay the interest on the debt which is currently about 200 B a year (I think) currently the feds take in about 225 biion per month.. cut spending in a couple of areas for the short term in DOD and in giving money to people who hate us and we can then get to work on the long term projects..Just my Opinion though.


that's a really good point. your plan sounds like a good one -- as long as we don't default on our loans then i have no problem with it.

don't have to default....pay the interest, social security, and military.....eveything else goes....

wingrider
07-13-2011, 12:58 AM
the way I see it is we have to make congress prove they can live within a budget before we alow them any kind of tax increase.. history has proven that the more they take from us the more they spend and the more they borrow. they have to pass a balanced budget amendment or no deal.


I agree with a balanced budget amendment, that's the only way we're going to get these guys to cut spending. I am worried though if they don't raise the debt ceiling in the short term if it will be financial Armageddon? Not sure if quitting cold turkey is the way to go here...like a bad alcoholic, the withdrawal symptoms can be fatal. :-\


it does not have to be a financial armegddon though.. all they have to do is pay the interest on the debt which is currently about 200 B a year (I think) currently the feds take in about 225 biion per month.. cut spending in a couple of areas for the short term in DOD and in giving money to people who hate us and we can then get to work on the long term projects..Just my Opinion though.


that's a really good point. your plan sounds like a good one -- as long as we don't default on our loans then i have no problem with it.

don't have to default....pay the interest, social security, and military.....eveything else goes....



Now you got it brother