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View Full Version : New Pope, New Agenda? Nope.



Deadwood
03-14-2013, 05:19 PM
He has written books on spirituality and meditation and has been outspoken against abortion and same-sex marriages, according to the Catholic News Service.
He is the first Jesuit to be named a pope. He entered the Society of Jesus and was ordained in 1969 during his theological studies at the Theological Faculty of San Miguel.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/03/13/pope-francis-facts.html




Anyone looking to Rome's Holy See with a glint of reform in their eye, might want to change that for a tear. Pope Francis is old school through and through. He was the second choice in the voting who brought the world Boris Benedict whatever. Clearly that conclave wanted not only conservatism, but significant roll back from the advances made under the previous pope.


Most scary is the "he is the first Jesuit to be named a pope." I know from experience that Rome doesn't do anything overnight, and a "first" at anything is pretty serious simply because it is first.

For years tucked away in such areas as education, the Jesuits have always made Rome nervous. Now they elect one, but one who is truly conservative if not regressive.

roadmaster
03-14-2013, 05:46 PM
Pope Francis is old school through and through And so am I. Hopefully this one will put a stop to this nonsense of protecting priest, sending them to another parish and seek justice for once.

KC
03-14-2013, 06:38 PM
This may be a petty thing, and I'm sure it was political, but the fact that he chose to take his name after St. Francis is very appealing. I may be drinking the kool-aid though.

Deadwood
03-14-2013, 07:21 PM
This may be a petty thing, and I'm sure it was political, but the fact that he chose to take his name after St. Francis is very appealing. I may be drinking the kool-aid though.

Depending from which Francis he draws the name. If Assisi we have great hopes; imagine selling off all the church real estate, giving the proceeds to Africa and demanding the clergy devote themselves to poverty.

Yeah, that could be a church I could follow.

I see the Roman Church as having ignored their own teaching: James 3:1-3 "Let not many of you become teachers [priests], my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur stricter judgement.
"For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man."

Mister D
03-14-2013, 07:33 PM
I like the guy already.

bladimz
03-14-2013, 08:37 PM
I believe that the Church has done itself irreparable damage and is very possibly down for the count. Pope Francis, like any new Pope, will of course inspire hope for its future. But like Deadwood implies, the only way that this Church (and any other for that matter) can regain any modicum of respectability is to be held to its own beliefs and free itself from it's worldly treasures. Use the proceeds to truly serve the physical as well as the spiritual needs of The People.

Maybe...

Mister D
03-14-2013, 08:53 PM
I believe that the Church has done itself irreparable damage and is very possibly down for the count. Pope Francis, like any new Pope, will of course inspire hope for its future. But like Deadwood implies, the only way that this Church (and any other for that matter) can regain any modicum of respectability is to be held to its own beliefs and free itself from it's worldly treasures. Use the proceeds to truly serve the physical as well as the spiritual needs of The People.

Maybe...

The RCC doesn't really have the riches you imagine. That's a myth. It was broke several times during the 20th Century. In any case, what beliefs are you referring to?

Peter1469
03-14-2013, 09:14 PM
Their property in Vatican City is certainly impressive. I couldn't see a way to steal any of the priceless artwork when I was studying the place.....

Deadwood
03-14-2013, 09:16 PM
The RCC doesn't really have the riches you imagine. That's a myth. It was broke several times during the 20th Century. In any case, what beliefs are you referring to?


Yes, I have heard that argument from a Cardinal actually.

However, it is true in this respect: If they sell the real estate on which sits their churches, they would have to spend the proceeds to build a new one.

As a follower of the first leader, a Jewish Carpenter, I don't believe we actually should have real estate and buildings. We rent.

Having said that, I once saw an estimate, sometime in the late 80's that the CONTENTS of the Vatican are worth several hundred million dollars.

Yes, the church is poor, but only so long as they want to hang onto all their stuff...

Peter1469
03-14-2013, 09:20 PM
The contents of the Vatican are priceless- unless it is all cheap knock-offs.

Peter1469
03-14-2013, 09:24 PM
From the dome

KC
03-14-2013, 09:24 PM
Depending from which Francis he draws the name. If Assisi we have great hopes; imagine selling off all the church real estate, giving the proceeds to Africa and demanding the clergy devote themselves to poverty.

Yeah, that could be a church I could follow.

I see the Roman Church as having ignored their own teaching: James 3:1-3 "Let not many of you become teachers [priests], my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur stricter judgement.
"For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man."

According to NPR, he takes after St. Francis of Assissi

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/14/174342955/pope-francis-namesake-was-patron-saint-of-animals-ecology

Mister D
03-14-2013, 09:28 PM
Yes, I have heard that argument from a Cardinal actually.

However, it is true in this respect: If they sell the real estate on which sits their churches, they would have to spend the proceeds to build a new one.

As a follower of the first leader, a Jewish Carpenter, I don't believe we actually should have real estate and buildings. We rent.

Having said that, I once saw an estimate, sometime in the late 80's that the CONTENTS of the Vatican are worth several hundred thousand dollars.

Yes, the church is poor, but only so long as they want to hang onto all their stuff...

From a cultural perspective, I'd prefer the church hang onto the priceless works of European culture that they have. Theologically, it's meaningless.

Mister D
03-14-2013, 09:32 PM
The contents of the Vatican are priceless- unless it is all cheap knock-offs.

When there is no price it's generally not for sale. Why would it be? I have no problem with the RCC being the guardian of whatever works of Europe' s cultural heritage she has. Besides, Christianity is responsible for much of it. It's sort of appropriate.

Deadwood
03-14-2013, 10:08 PM
The contents of the Vatican are priceless- unless it is all cheap knock-offs.

That's propaganda.

There is no such thing as priceless....everything has a price.

The question becomes, with regard the relics the church holds, is to whom do they really belong?

Just as museums around the world telling first nations, "oops" we didn't realize we kinda stole some of your culture...here, you can have it back", the Roman Church needs to grow a conscience and give up some of that stuff.

FFS, a church in Montreal has a jar with a guy's heart in it. He was a priest known as "Father Andres" about whom it is said he could heal the sick. So they cut out his heart when he died and charge people to see it. It's like a carnival side show.

Meanwhile, his family objected to high heaven, they wanted him buried properly, a true Christian.

There are still on going lawsuits .

I mean, come on....

Deadwood
03-14-2013, 10:13 PM
When there is no price it's generally not for sale. Why would it be? I have no problem with the RCC being the guardian of whatever works of Europe' s cultural heritage she has. Besides, Christianity is responsible for much of it. It's sort of appropriate.

What was commissioned by the church, belongs to the church, of course.

But there's a lot of stuff in there they just grabbed.

oceanloverOH
03-14-2013, 11:16 PM
I have high hopes for Pope Francis I. I've started reading up on his career and life. First of all, I like that he's chosen St. Francis of Assisi as his patron saint. He has lived his life frugally and simply, as did his patron saint....he eschews the rich trappings of a Cardinal and also of the papacy. As ArchBishop in Buenos Aires, it wasn't uncommon to see him celebrating a Mass on the streets with the prostitutes and homeless. He has a special caring for people suffering with AIDS. And he has a sense of humor. During dinner after his election on Wednesday, the cardinals toasted him.....Then he toasted them back and said, 'May God forgive you for what you've done." I'm going to continue reading up on him.....I haven't set foot in a Catholic Church since I was.....hmmmm, 20 or 21. Maybe, if he can bring respect back to the church, that will change.

Peter1469
03-15-2013, 12:22 AM
That's propaganda.

There is no such thing as priceless....everything has a price.

The question becomes, with regard the relics the church holds, is to whom do they really belong?

Just as museums around the world telling first nations, "oops" we didn't realize we kinda stole some of your culture...here, you can have it back", the Roman Church needs to grow a conscience and give up some of that stuff.

FFS, a church in Montreal has a jar with a guy's heart in it. He was a priest known as "Father Andres" about whom it is said he could heal the sick. So they cut out his heart when he died and charge people to see it. It's like a carnival side show.

Meanwhile, his family objected to high heaven, they wanted him buried properly, a true Christian.

There are still on going lawsuits .

I mean, come on....

Only commenting on the propaganda comment. Yes, there is art work at the Vatican that could not be bought at any price.

I don't care about the rest of that rant.

Deadwood
03-15-2013, 12:51 AM
I have high hopes for Pope Francis I. I've started reading up on his career and life. First of all, I like that he's chosen St. Francis of Assisi as his patron saint. He has lived his life frugally and simply, as did his patron saint....he eschews the rich trappings of a Cardinal and also of the papacy. As ArchBishop in Buenos Aires, it wasn't uncommon to see him celebrating a Mass on the streets with the prostitutes and homeless. He has a special caring for people suffering with AIDS. And he has a sense of humor. During dinner after his election on Wednesday, the cardinals toasted him.....Then he toasted them back and said, 'May God forgive you for what you've done." I'm going to continue reading up on him.....I haven't set foot in a Catholic Church since I was.....hmmmm, 20 or 21. Maybe, if he can bring respect back to the church, that will change.

That is impressive.

He has my attention....