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View Full Version : Is the Catholic Church as a whole corrupt?



Captain Obvious
03-21-2013, 06:40 PM
Discuss

Greenridgeman
03-21-2013, 06:43 PM
Discuss


Wouldn't have a clue, I am not a practicing Catholic, so, it does not concern me.

Captain Obvious
03-21-2013, 06:52 PM
Nor have you ever had an abortion yet you have an opinion on that.

Peter1469
03-21-2013, 06:54 PM
There is corruption within the Church, just as with every other political organization.

Greenridgeman
03-21-2013, 06:56 PM
Nor have you ever had an abortion yet you have an opinion on that.



I have an opinion on abortion; it is the law of the land, and none of my business.

The Catholic Church is none of my business either.

Mister D
03-21-2013, 07:15 PM
There is corruption within the Church, just as with every other political organization.

My sentiments exactly. The RCC is also enormous., If you look hard enough chances are you'll find what you're looking for.

Captain Obvious
03-21-2013, 07:32 PM
My sentiments exactly. The RCC is also enormous., If you look hard enough chances are you'll find what you're looking for.

Hence the "as a whole" disclaimer.

Mister D
03-21-2013, 07:35 PM
Hence the "as a whole" disclaimer.

You gave us a variety of choices. :smiley:

junie
03-21-2013, 07:58 PM
the catholic church is susceptible to corruption just as much as any human endeavor but has the unique position of being such a supposedly trustworthy source..so corruption highlights the fallibility of humans, not necessarily catholics as a whole...

Peter1469
03-21-2013, 08:01 PM
the catholic church is susceptible to corruption just as much as any human endeavor but has the unique position of being such a supposedly trustworthy source..so corruption highlights the fallibility of humans, not necessarily catholics as a whole...

Welcome

oceanloverOH
03-21-2013, 09:40 PM
There is "some" corruption.....but no doubt there is "some" corruption in every branch of organized religions. As junie put it so well, it highlights the fallibility of humans.

Hoping that Pope Francis can get a handle on the pockets of corruption and start weeding them out, instead of covering them over.

Conley
03-21-2013, 09:47 PM
the catholic church is susceptible to corruption just as much as any human endeavor but has the unique position of being such a supposedly trustworthy source..so corruption highlights the fallibility of humans, not necessarily catholics as a whole...

Exactly...all humans are susceptible to corruption and the bigger a group gets the more likely it'll contain corruption... with DC being example #1.

KC
03-22-2013, 01:05 AM
There is "some" corruption.....but no doubt there is "some" corruption in every branch of organized religions. As @junie (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=699) put it so well, it highlights the fallibility of humans.

Hoping that Pope Francis can get a handle on the pockets of corruption and start weeding them out, instead of covering them over.

Yes, there is bound to be corruption, but I think if the Pope is involved in any kind of cover up it undermines the special designation of the Pope and the significance of his office.

KC
03-22-2013, 01:06 AM
Welcome to the forums junie! Insightful post.

littlejohn
03-22-2013, 06:41 AM
There is "some" corruption.....but no doubt there is "some" corruption in every branch of organized religions. As @junie (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=699) put it so well, it highlights the fallibility of humans.

Hoping that Pope Francis can get a handle on the pockets of corruption and start weeding them out, instead of covering them over.
Agree.
i think they are in sort of a pickle though. As icons of moral guidance -- on one hand you might say justice should be swift to set the right example, but a significant part of their mantra is "forgiveness." I personally would be at a loss for how to balance that.

Votar Roja
10-15-2023, 08:11 AM
Is the Catholic Church as a whole corrupt?Discuss

Short answer: No.

Question: Jesus chose twelve apostles. Jesus chose them! One totally betrayed him, one denied him 3 times, they all ran away from the cross except for one . . . . did Jesus choose badly. CAN Jesus choose badly? No, he did not and he cannot for he is fully God as well as fully man.

My point? Corrupt individuals in the church are as old as the apostles themselves. That does not make the Church corrupt.

Peter1469
10-15-2023, 08:34 AM
Short answer: No.

Question: Jesus chose twelve apostles. Jesus chose them! One totally betrayed him, one denied him 3 times, they all ran away from the cross except for one . . . . did Jesus choose badly. CAN Jesus choose badly? No, he did not and he cannot for he is full God as well as fully man.

My point? Corrupt individuals in the church are as old as the apostles themselves. That does not make the Church corrupt.
Did Judas betray Jesus? Or fulfill prophecy?

DGUtley
10-15-2023, 08:48 AM
Did Judas betray Jesus? Or fulfill prophecy?

62381

DGUtley
10-15-2023, 08:50 AM
I think like anything else, there's corrupt individuals within the Church. We know that there are/were b/c of the abuse crisis that we went through over the past 50 years. This wasn't the "Church" this was individuals that had infected the Church. Plus, with competing interests, the definition of corruption gets blurred a bit.

Votar Roja
10-15-2023, 08:53 AM
Did Judas betray Jesus? Or fulfill prophecy?
Both. But either way does not detract from my point: Corrupt individuals in the church are as old as the apostles themselves. That does not make the Church corrupt.

DGUtley
10-15-2023, 09:04 AM
Both. But either way does not detract from my point: Corrupt individuals in the church are as old as the apostles themselves. That does not make the Church corrupt.

Vivat Jesus.

Votar Roja
10-15-2023, 09:07 AM
Vivat Jesus.

K of C, eh?

XavierOnassis
10-17-2023, 01:18 PM
To discuss whether the Church is corrupt, one would need to mention in detail what corrupt practice was performed by the Church or its employees.

kilgram
10-20-2023, 01:57 AM
I am not Catholic, but I live in a country that was catholic. Today, catholicism in my country is going under the 50% of catholics, still not there, but close, but still has a lot of influence and is doing a lot of ugly operations to keep their power. So yeah, is utterly corrupt.

Mister D
10-20-2023, 06:53 PM
I am not Catholic, but I live in a country that was catholic. Today, catholicism in my country is going under the 50% of catholics, still not there, but close, but still has a lot of influence and is doing a lot of ugly operations to keep their power. So yeah, is utterly corrupt.
Your country is literally dying.

Ethereal
10-20-2023, 07:07 PM
Did Judas betray Jesus? Or fulfill prophecy?
Both.

kilgram
10-21-2023, 02:25 AM
Your country is literally dying.
Yeah you're right. We have constant mass shootings, epidemic of fentanyl, a lot of homeless people even working... Oh wait it is not the country where I live.

Mister D
10-21-2023, 04:56 PM
Yeah you're right. We have constant mass shootings, epidemic of fentanyl, a lot of homeless people even working... Oh wait it is not the country where I live.
No, but you do have one of the lowest birth rates in the world. Yeah, fewer marriages and children have consequences.

DGUtley
10-21-2023, 08:49 PM
The Church ⛪️ is not corrupt. Every now and then someone that is corrupt emerges, and the church gets rid of the person. People leave, they come back. The Church will be fine.

Mister D
10-21-2023, 08:55 PM
The Church ⛪️ is not corrupt. Every now and then someone that is corrupt emerges, and the church gets rid of the person. People leave, they come back. The Church will be fine.

The Church has survived bad Popes and bad clergymen because the Church is always more than than her members. Today's troubles are not new or unique.

kilgram
10-22-2023, 12:04 AM
No, but you do have one of the lowest birth rates in the world. Yeah, fewer marriages and children have consequences.
Reduce population is not bad.

Peter1469
10-22-2023, 08:36 AM
Both.
Considering Judas committed suicide, he didn't think he was fulfilling prophecy.

Peter1469
10-22-2023, 08:37 AM
Reduce population is not bad.
It is bad for a society with a lot of social welfare programs.

Just AnotherPerson
10-22-2023, 08:44 AM
Did Judas betray Jesus? Or fulfill prophecy?

I think he took one for the team.

Chris
10-22-2023, 09:17 AM
Reduce population is not bad.

Fall below the replacement fertility rate of 2.1 births per woman and your culture gets replaced. Spain's fertility rate is currently 1.390.

XavierOnassis
10-22-2023, 11:22 AM
It is impossible to have any organization that will eternally be free of corruption. Th Catholic Church does a lot of worthwhile work in the areas of education and medicine, but it has also been guilty of sexual abuse by priests and cruelty and trauma caused by mean nuns in elementary school, especially in the schools run for Native Americans in the US and Canada, and was particularly abusive of young women in laundries in Ireland. That is why the present generation of Irish people started to ignore the desires of the Church.

rcfieldz
10-22-2023, 11:25 AM
Discuss

What is your connection with the Catholic Church? And why single that religion out for corruption?

XavierOnassis
10-22-2023, 04:40 PM
Considering Judas committed suicide, he didn't think he was fulfilling prophecy.
Nothing in any of the Gospels can be called anything other than secondhand information. Did Judas really hang himself? Was he really paid thirty pieces of silver? The Gospel of Michael claims that when Jesus died, dead people popped out of their graves and began to stroll around Jerusalem.

Right there in the Bible, Jesus told a group of disciples when he would return.
It's right there in the Bible: Mark 9:1, Mark 13:30, Matthew 10:23-31 or so, you can read it for yourselves, I am not making this up.
And did he return: no, he did not. Paul told his followers that there was no reason to marry, because Jesus would come before they could have any children (which Paul seemed to think was the only reason one would want to marry).

XavierOnassis
10-22-2023, 04:51 PM
What is your connection with the Catholic Church? And why single that religion out for corruption?

First off, the Catholic Church is not the only church where sexual abuse of children or misuse of funds have occurred. But the Catholic Church does have an arrangement between priests and altar boys that has frequently resulted in homosexual abuse of altar boys by priests, that does not happen in most protestant churches that does not have altar boys.

As for me, I earned BA,. MA and PhD degrees in the Spanish language and Hispanic literature, and it is really not possible to understand literature well if one does not know rather a lot about the Roman Catholic Church. I studied in Mexico for my doctorate and as part of the curriculum I had to study Latin, and my Latin professor was an ex priest (who left the Church to get married) and my thesis advisor was a novelist who also was a former priest, and both of them became good friends.

The present Pope, Francis, has done more to deal with the abuse and corruption than any other Catholic leader. John XXIII and John Paul II, and Benedict all chose to pretend that the problem did not exist to the degree that it has existed for a very very long time.

DGUtley
10-22-2023, 06:06 PM
What is the “arrangement” between priests and altar boys that frequently let to homosexual abuse. as a former altar boy, I am very curious. I am not aware of any arrangement. Maybe they kept it secret from me.

XavierOnassis
10-23-2023, 08:05 PM
Not all altar boys were buggered, but those who were were often scarred for life. The Church knew this was going on and the usual solution was to simply transfer the priest to a different diocese where they would bugger a different set of altar boys. The bishops and other officials refused to punish the buggering priests in some cases for their entire lifetimes.