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View Full Version : Plea deal in California gay classmate killing



spunkloaf
11-21-2011, 11:09 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/plea-deal-california-gay-classmate-killing-231308006.html


This is just sad all around. For the kid who was taught to hate, for his family, for the victim and his family, and for an entire nation which still cannot seem to fully put this kind of nonsensical judgment and hatred behind itself.

Conley
11-22-2011, 10:03 AM
That is a senseless tragedy. Very sad indeed. :(

Peter1469
11-22-2011, 11:04 AM
A horrible case. Some people don't belong in civil society.

spunkloaf
11-22-2011, 11:06 AM
Kids killing other kids for being gay. More specifically, for making unwanted sexual advances towards them.

Dude.


It must be so....."normal" being straight. Sexual advances towards and from the opposite sex is expected, whether it is wanted or not. Gay people are not allowed that kind of comfort and liberty.

How many times have you straight men made "advances" towards women and been rejected?

Peter1469
11-22-2011, 11:08 AM
Kids killing other kids for being gay. More specifically, for making unwanted sexual advances towards them.

Dude.


It must be so....."normal" being straight. Sexual advances towards and from the opposite sex is expected, whether it is wanted or not. Gay people are not allowed that kind of comfort and liberty.

How many times have you straight men made "advances" towards women and been rejected?


What- I condemned the murderer.

What more is required?

spunkloaf
11-22-2011, 11:09 AM
Oh I wasn't referring to you peter1469. :D

Kinda looks like I am. It's just a general question.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 11:10 AM
Kids killing other kids for being gay. More specifically, for making unwanted sexual advances towards them.

Dude.


It must be so....."normal" being straight. Sexual advances towards and from the opposite sex is expected, whether it is wanted or not. Gay people are not allowed that kind of comfort and liberty.

How many times have you straight men made "advances" towards women and been rejected?


Regardless of motive it's a horrible thing. Would Ellen Degenerate memtion it on her show if it was some gang slaying?

Conley
11-22-2011, 11:16 AM
I could be wrong but when I read stuff like this I don't think it's a case of anti-gay behavior so much as a mentally ill murderer. As in I think this guy was just a psycho and was looking for a reason to justify his killing, not the other way around. I'm not explaining it well but maybe someone understands what I'm saying. Kind of like the whole issue around hate crimes.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 11:19 AM
I could be wrong but when I read stuff like this I don't think it's a case of anti-gay behavior so much as a mentally ill murderer. As in I think this guy was just a psycho and was looking for a reason to justify his killing, not the other way around. I'm not explaining it well but maybe someone understands what I'm saying. Kind of like the whole issue around hate crimes.


I hear you. Some wacko committed a horrible crime. It's not like there is a wave of anti-gay shootings at American schools.

spunkloaf
11-22-2011, 11:22 AM
Kids killing other kids for being gay. More specifically, for making unwanted sexual advances towards them.

Dude.


It must be so....."normal" being straight. Sexual advances towards and from the opposite sex is expected, whether it is wanted or not. Gay people are not allowed that kind of comfort and liberty.

How many times have you straight men made "advances" towards women and been rejected?


Regardless of motive it's a horrible thing. Would Ellen Degenerate memtion it on her show if it was some gang slaying?


No but maybe somebody else who is more sympathetic to gang violence would mention it.

Everybody flaunts their purposes in life. Good for Ellen.



However gang violence at least has a purpose to it: people defending their turfs, and their business. Doesn't make it right, but it has purpose. This story depicts the senseless murder of somebody because of their sexual orientation. The hate that the perpetrator brought forth was completely senseless, it had no purpose, it could have been prevented simply by society being more accepting, by society not teaching a young person to hate. And furthermore, it could have been prevented by society teaching another person that unwanted sexual advances are inappropriate and should immediately cease.

Conley
11-22-2011, 11:24 AM
I feel like those lessons are already present in society and some chose to ignore them. There will always be deviants who murder unfortunately.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 11:28 AM
Kids killing other kids for being gay. More specifically, for making unwanted sexual advances towards them.

Dude.


It must be so....."normal" being straight. Sexual advances towards and from the opposite sex is expected, whether it is wanted or not. Gay people are not allowed that kind of comfort and liberty.

How many times have you straight men made "advances" towards women and been rejected?


Regardless of motive it's a horrible thing. Would Ellen Degenerate memtion it on her show if it was some gang slaying?


No but maybe somebody else who is more sympathetic to gang violence would mention it.

Everybody flaunts their purposes in life. Good for Ellen.



However gang violence at least has a purpose to it: people defending their turfs, and their business. Doesn't make it right, but it has purpose. This story depicts the senseless murder of somebody because of their sexual orientation. The hate that the perpetrator brought forth was completely senseless, it had no purpose, it could have been prevented simply by society being more accepting, by society not teaching a young person to hate. And furthermore, it could have been prevented by society teaching another person that unwanted sexual advances are inappropriate and should immediately cease.


Gang slayings are utterly senseless to the rest of society but make sense to the murderers themselves. This murder was no different. Really, I do find it somewhat opportunistic, ghoulish, and ridiculous that "gay rights" activists never waste a tragedy.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 11:29 AM
I feel like those lessons are already present in society and some chose to ignore them. There will always be deviants who murder unfortunately.


Right. The nation is not in need of soul searching.

spunkloaf
11-22-2011, 11:33 AM
I could be wrong but when I read stuff like this I don't think it's a case of anti-gay behavior so much as a mentally ill murderer. As in I think this guy was just a psycho and was looking for a reason to justify his killing, not the other way around. I'm not explaining it well but maybe someone understands what I'm saying. Kind of like the whole issue around hate crimes.


I hear you. Some wacko committed a horrible crime. It's not like there is a wave of anti-gay shootings at American schools.


If he was mentally ill, he should have presented that as his defense.

The only mental illness this kid has is hatred. Senseless, prejudiced, indoctrinated hatred. Who is to blame for teaching him that kind of hatred? Maybe he heard a joke somewhere about faggots, and it started his wheels turning. Maybe he has a bit of homosexuality himself which is repressed. Maybe his biggest fear is other people finding this out.

He made the point himself that he shot the other kid because he didn't like the dress he wore or the way he talked, and because the gay kid made sexual advanced towards him. You can't ignore that this was a senseless killing driven purely by hate, stereotypes, prejudice and societal pressure. With all these bullshit expectations and pressures from society, somebody is bound to off another here and there.

spunkloaf
11-22-2011, 11:42 AM
Kids killing other kids for being gay. More specifically, for making unwanted sexual advances towards them.

Dude.


It must be so....."normal" being straight. Sexual advances towards and from the opposite sex is expected, whether it is wanted or not. Gay people are not allowed that kind of comfort and liberty.

How many times have you straight men made "advances" towards women and been rejected?


Regardless of motive it's a horrible thing. Would Ellen Degenerate memtion it on her show if it was some gang slaying?


No but maybe somebody else who is more sympathetic to gang violence would mention it.

Everybody flaunts their purposes in life. Good for Ellen.



However gang violence at least has a purpose to it: people defending their turfs, and their business. Doesn't make it right, but it has purpose. This story depicts the senseless murder of somebody because of their sexual orientation. The hate that the perpetrator brought forth was completely senseless, it had no purpose, it could have been prevented simply by society being more accepting, by society not teaching a young person to hate. And furthermore, it could have been prevented by society teaching another person that unwanted sexual advances are inappropriate and should immediately cease.


Gang slayings are utterly senseless to the rest of society but make sense to the murderers themselves. This murder was no different. Really, I do find it somewhat opportunistic, ghoulish, and ridiculous that "gay rights" activists never waste a tragedy.


Oh that was so cool, D-wang. I wish everybody could be as cool as you are. Really, that was just so fucking cool what you said right there. Bravo. Bravo.



Because everybody else in the world (except you) is just looking for reasons to justify their purposes. Right? After all, nobody is REALLY homosexual. they are just looking for attention. They don't REALLY have to face any kind of oppression, and they are just a bunch of whiners. They just want "special rights."


Let me put this into perspective. I've never heard of somebody murdering another person because they were straight. See how this kind of hatred is a one-way street? Yet you seem to ignore the fact that there is any street there at all. You don't want to acknowledge the hatred and intolerance which drives this kind of bullshit.

Conley
11-22-2011, 11:57 AM
I don't deny that discrimination against gays exists. I'm 100% against that.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you have someone who is disturbed enough to kill another person over their clothing or something similarly stupid, no amount of education or tolerance is going to prevent that. How could this have been prevented? Who do you think is endorsing this kind of violent action?

The murderer is clearly disturbed and yes, mentally ill. I'm not saying he should use that as his criminal defense. I am sure he knew what he was doing was wrong, but he didn't care. People get killed for all kinds of horrible, stupid reasons and this is just another in a long list. It sucks.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 12:42 PM
Kids killing other kids for being gay. More specifically, for making unwanted sexual advances towards them.

Dude.


It must be so....."normal" being straight. Sexual advances towards and from the opposite sex is expected, whether it is wanted or not. Gay people are not allowed that kind of comfort and liberty.

How many times have you straight men made "advances" towards women and been rejected?


Regardless of motive it's a horrible thing. Would Ellen Degenerate memtion it on her show if it was some gang slaying?


No but maybe somebody else who is more sympathetic to gang violence would mention it.

Everybody flaunts their purposes in life. Good for Ellen.



However gang violence at least has a purpose to it: people defending their turfs, and their business. Doesn't make it right, but it has purpose. This story depicts the senseless murder of somebody because of their sexual orientation. The hate that the perpetrator brought forth was completely senseless, it had no purpose, it could have been prevented simply by society being more accepting, by society not teaching a young person to hate. And furthermore, it could have been prevented by society teaching another person that unwanted sexual advances are inappropriate and should immediately cease.


Gang slayings are utterly senseless to the rest of society but make sense to the murderers themselves. This murder was no different. Really, I do find it somewhat opportunistic, ghoulish, and ridiculous that "gay rights" activists never waste a tragedy.


Oh that was so cool, D-wang. I wish everybody could be as cool as you are. Really, that was just so fucking cool what you said right there. Bravo. Bravo.



Because everybody else in the world (except you) is just looking for reasons to justify their purposes. Right? After all, nobody is REALLY homosexual. they are just looking for attention. They don't REALLY have to face any kind of oppression, and they are just a bunch of whiners. They just want "special rights."


Let me put this into perspective. I've never heard of somebody murdering another person because they were straight. See how this kind of hatred is a one-way street? Yet you seem to ignore the fact that there is any street there at all. You don't want to acknowledge the hatred and intolerance which drives this kind of bullshit.


Thank you. 8) But lets be serious. No one can be as cool as the D-Wang. No one.

I have no idea what your second paragraph is supposed to mean. While cool, the D-Wang is not a mind reader. I've never been for gay rights because I don't think gays have any rights that are being denied. Moreover, embracing these tragedies and pretending they are indicative of anything more than the crazed act of some loon is offensive to me. It also does more harm than good.

Yet I have heard of being being murdered over all kinds of things. What makes being killed over your sexuality any different than say...being killed for wearing red in a certain neighborhood or being white, black etc? Nothing. Murder is murder. I do not single the murder of gays as being somehow more tragic or more deserving of national attention.

Peter1469
11-22-2011, 12:57 PM
Sort of like the Mathew Shepard case- activists claimed that he was killed for being gay. It turned out to be drug related.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685&page=1

MMC
11-22-2011, 02:06 PM
The Warriors- Come Out and Play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDH9Jq5AWkQ#ws)

Mister D
11-22-2011, 02:17 PM
Sort of like the Mathew Shepard case- activists claimed that he was killed for being gay. It turned out to be drug related.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685&page=1


Never heard this. Thanks. I remember the case well. MTV even made a propaganda film about it.

jgreer
11-22-2011, 02:35 PM
Not really proof, the murderers are just trying to make their crime seem less awful even tho it isnt

Peter1469
11-22-2011, 02:50 PM
The Warriors- Come Out and Play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDH9Jq5AWkQ#ws)


Drugs, just say no.

MMC
11-22-2011, 02:55 PM
The Warriors- Come Out and Play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDH9Jq5AWkQ#ws)


Drugs, just say no.


More the point of seeing bangers kill someone over no reason at all. Over a piece of ground thats not even theirs! Never was, never will be!

Mister D
11-22-2011, 03:12 PM
Not really proof, the murderers are just trying to make their crime seem less awful even tho it isnt


Yea, that makes a random murder seem much less awful.

???

jgreer
11-22-2011, 03:41 PM
Not really proof, the murderers are just trying to make their crime seem less awful even tho it isnt


Yea, that makes a random murder seem much less awful.

???


Because people see a drug killing as less bad than someone being killed for being gay. Drug users people figure have it coming.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 03:58 PM
Not really proof, the murderers are just trying to make their crime seem less awful even tho it isnt


Yea, that makes a random murder seem much less awful.

???


Because people see a drug killing as less bad than someone being killed for being gay. Drug users people figure have it coming.


I'm horrified by senseless murders regardless of who they happen to. You?

spunkloaf
11-22-2011, 04:27 PM
Not really proof, the murderers are just trying to make their crime seem less awful even tho it isnt


Yea, that makes a random murder seem much less awful.

???


Because people see a drug killing as less bad than someone being killed for being gay. Drug users people figure have it coming.


I'm horrified by senseless murders regardless of who they happen to. You?


You're trying to detract attention away from the cause of this particular murder. Are you not? I think that's deplorable, because you are in essence saying that we have nothing to learn from it. Other than murder is senseless. Bravo again for that, by the way, that's an excellent observation.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 04:55 PM
Not really proof, the murderers are just trying to make their crime seem less awful even tho it isnt


Yea, that makes a random murder seem much less awful.

???


Because people see a drug killing as less bad than someone being killed for being gay. Drug users people figure
have it coming.


I'm horrified by senseless murders regardless of who they happen to. You?


You're trying to detract attention away from the cause of this particular murder. Are you not? I think that's deplorable, because you are in essence saying that we have nothing to learn from it. Other than murder is senseless. Bravo again for that, by the way, that's an excellent observation.


I don't have squat "to learn" from the brutal murder of anyone. Do you? What, pray tell? That murder is not a good thing? ???

Conley
11-22-2011, 07:14 PM
This is a really complicated case. For one thing, there's the consideration of charging a child as an adult.

Then there's this:

"Police found Nazi-inspired drawings and artifacts at his house, and a white supremacist expert testified at trial the hate-filled ideology was the reason for the killing."

Was the victim white? If he was black, or white and Jewish, would that change the heinousness of the act? Is one worse than another?

Spunk I am glad you posted this article -- I hadn't heard about it -- and I think it can be a good topic of discussion if we can keep our emotions in check. It's a tragedy and I am certain we all agree on that.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 07:28 PM
Indeed, I think we all agree it's awful.

Conley
11-22-2011, 07:28 PM
Spunk you brought up another good point. Any person should learn not to repeat unwanted sexual advances...that is a problem that goes way beyond this case, but it shows how complicated the circumstances are. Do we know what those advances were? I don't and I'm not suggesting that they justify the murder, merely pointing out that many murders come from that sort of passion, straight, gay or whatever.

Conley
11-22-2011, 07:29 PM
Indeed, I think we all agree it's awful.


That's all you're going to say?

No comment about the Nazi connection I posted? ;) ;D

Mister D
11-22-2011, 07:57 PM
Indeed, I think we all agree it's awful.


That's all you're going to say?

No comment about the Nazi connection I posted? ;) ;D


Nazis come in all shapes and sizes. ::) Not sure why we are stereotyping Nazis now... ;D

Mister D
11-22-2011, 08:00 PM
Spunk you brought up another good point. Any person should learn not to repeat unwanted sexual advances...that is a problem that goes way beyond this case, but it shows how complicated the circumstances are. Do we know what those advances were? I don't and I'm not suggesting that they justify the murder, merely pointing out that many murders come from that sort of passion, straight, gay or whatever.


I've heard of guys freaking out before over homosexual advances.

Conley
11-22-2011, 08:10 PM
Yep, and women freaking out about male advances. And in some admittedly rare cases, the opposite.

Conley
11-22-2011, 08:16 PM
Indeed, I think we all agree it's awful.


That's all you're going to say?

No comment about the Nazi connection I posted? ;) ;D


Nazis come in all shapes and sizes. ::) Not sure why we are stereotyping Nazis now... ;D


Different shapes and sizes...colors not so much ;D O0

Mister D
11-22-2011, 08:25 PM
Yep, and women freaking out about male advances. And in some admittedly rare cases, the opposite.


I can understand a homosexual advance being more threatening to someone insecure about his sexuality or whatever. I've been hit on a few times over the years. I just laughed. It was kind of creepy though.

Conley
11-22-2011, 08:28 PM
Yep, and women freaking out about male advances. And in some admittedly rare cases, the opposite.


I can understand a homosexual advance being more threatening to someone insecure about his sexuality or whatever. I've been hit on a few times over the years. I just laughed. It was kind of creepy though.


Teens are insecure about everything. I don't think that will ever change.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 08:30 PM
Yep, and women freaking out about male advances. And in some admittedly rare cases, the opposite.


I can understand a homosexual advance being more threatening to someone insecure about his sexuality or whatever. I've been hit on a few times over the years. I just laughed. It was kind of creepy though.


Teens are insecure about everything. I don't think that will ever change.


That's a good point. I wasn't even considering his age. Assuming there were in fact homosexual advances I can see him freaking out. I shouldn't need to say this but I will: in no way does that make murder understandable or any less heinous and crazy.

Peter1469
11-22-2011, 09:11 PM
If you decide it is a good idea to shoot someone in the head for mere homosexual advances you are better off separated from society by either incarceration or execution.

Conley
11-22-2011, 09:17 PM
If you decide it is a good idea to shoot someone in the head for mere homosexual advances you are better off separated from society by either incarceration or execution.


Yes and I think everyone on this board and society would agree with that. Only those like the killer would argue otherwise.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 09:21 PM
If you decide it is a good idea to shoot someone in the head for mere homosexual advances you are better off separated from society by either incarceration or execution.


Agreed

Mister D
11-22-2011, 09:22 PM
If you decide it is a good idea to shoot someone in the head for mere homosexual advances you are better off separated from society by either incarceration or execution.


Yes and I think everyone on this board and society would agree with that. Only those like the killer would argue otherwise.


Who knows what the heck was going through the killer's mind.

Peter1469
11-22-2011, 09:35 PM
Ultimately it doesn't matter. Their thought processes were so far outside of acceptable behavior that their removal from society becomes the only response.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 09:38 PM
Ultimately it doesn't matter. Their thought processes were so far outside of acceptable behavior that their removal from society becomes the only response.


True.

spunkloaf
11-22-2011, 10:02 PM
My emotions are in check. I'm appalled that some other people's emotions are barely present. It pisses me off that a human being is killed, there was a very specific motive for it, and that motive is being completely ignored. I think if there is cause for me ever to become emotional about something, this would be one.

Maybe people are too afraid of the word "hate-crime" that they want to avoid exploring the motive in question. Since that is probably the case, I think some people here are jaded.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 10:27 PM
My emotions are in check. I'm appalled that some other people's emotions are barely present. It pisses me off that a human being is killed, there was a very specific motive for it, and that motive is being completely ignored. I think if there is cause for me ever to become emotional about something, this would be one.

Maybe people are too afraid of the word "hate-crime" that they want to avoid exploring the motive in question. Since that is probably the case, I think some people here are jaded.


Spunk, how many murders have there been in the US this year? Honestly, what separates this one from the others? I understand that you personally have a stronger reaction than I might have but I'm not sure why you expect the same from me. That said, you're right I am somewhat jaded and I explained why. I don't like having such tragedies used for propaganda purposes. That is precisely what gay activists are doing and always do when something like this (very rare, BTW) happens. Dude, the vast majority (I'm thinking 99.999 plus % of people who don't like gays for whatever reason would not pull out a pistol and gun someone down in cold blood.

Mister D
11-22-2011, 10:29 PM
Secondly, what if the motive was hatred of gays? So what? He should be punished for murder not hatred of gays.

spunkloaf
11-22-2011, 11:15 PM
Who has it worse in this world, D-wang? Straight people or gay people? I'll make it easier for you to answer. Are you happy that you are not gay?

Can you even comprehend the anxiety that you are blessed to not have to deal with? Are you even capable of appreciating that? Do you have to worry about people shooting you in the back of the head because you like women? I hate telling you that you have no ground for argument, but if there was ever a time to say it...

Mister D
11-23-2011, 09:12 AM
Who has it worse in this world, D-wang? Straight people or gay people? I'll make it easier for you to answer. Are you happy that you are not gay?

Can you even comprehend the anxiety that you are blessed to not have to deal with? Are you even capable of appreciating that? Do you have to worry about people shooting you in the back of the head because you like women? I hate telling you that you have no ground for argument, but if there was ever a time to say it...


I can't imagine being anyone but who I am, Spunk. That's not to avoid your question but to say it's nonsensical.

I don't have to deal with crack addiction, prison, a bad neighborhood, divorced parents, and many other negative things, dude. What's your point? Now if you are attempting to say that gays roam this nation in fear of being randomly shot in the back of the head you're delusional.

Conley
11-23-2011, 09:52 AM
My emotions are in check. I'm appalled that some other people's emotions are barely present. It pisses me off that a human being is killed, there was a very specific motive for it, and that motive is being completely ignored. I think if there is cause for me ever to become emotional about something, this would be one.

Maybe people are too afraid of the word "hate-crime" that they want to avoid exploring the motive in question. Since that is probably the case, I think some people here are jaded.


I don't think it's fair to say we're ignoring the motive. I'm willing to explore the motive but we have to be honest with the situation. Children taunt and bully each other over just about everything. I was made fun of for my hair, my clothes, etc. It happens to everyone at some point. Some of the kids fight back, and some of them do so with knives, guns, etc. it escalates. This isn't the first case of a student killing another student unfortunately, and it won't be the last.

So my question to you Spunk is what could have been done to prevent this tragedy? Schools are already trying to stop bullying, many have metal detectors, etc. Do you think that our attitudes as a society made this murderer think his actions were ok?

Mister D
11-23-2011, 10:08 AM
My emotions are in check. I'm appalled that some other people's emotions are barely present. It pisses me off that a human being is killed, there was a very specific motive for it, and that motive is being completely ignored. I think if there is cause for me ever to become emotional about something, this would be one.

Maybe people are too afraid of the word "hate-crime" that they want to avoid exploring the motive in question. Since that is probably the case, I think some people here are jaded.


I don't think it's fair to say we're ignoring the motive. I'm willing to explore the motive but we have to be honest with the situation. Children taunt and bully each other over just about everything. I was made fun of for my hair, my clothes, etc. It happens to everyone at some point. Some of the kids fight back, and some of them do so with knives, guns, etc. it escalates. This isn't the first case of a student killing another student unfortunately, and it won't be the last.

So my question to you Spunk is what could have been done to prevent this tragedy? Schools are already trying to stop bullying, many have metal detectors, etc. Do you think that our attitudes as a society made this murderer think his actions were ok?

That's the impression I'm getting and it's precisely what I object to.

Conley
11-23-2011, 10:26 AM
I disagree with that as well. Now it may be that in his little circle of freaks they thought that violence against gays was ok, but there's no way that society at large endorses that kind of behavior. There will always be gangs of violent deviants who will attack people for any reason whatsoever. Even something as simple as walking into the wrong part of town can make you a target.

Mister D
11-23-2011, 10:30 AM
I disagree with that as well. Now it may be that in his little circle of freaks they thought that violence against gays was ok, but there's no way that society at large endorses that kind of behavior. There will always be gangs of violent deviants who will attack people for any reason whatsoever. Even something as simple as walking into the wrong part of town can make you a target.


True. No sensible person condones attacking gays regardless of how they feel about "gay rights".

Peter1469
11-23-2011, 08:48 PM
My emotions are in check. I'm appalled that some other people's emotions are barely present. It pisses me off that a human being is killed, there was a very specific motive for it, and that motive is being completely ignored. I think if there is cause for me ever to become emotional about something, this would be one.

Maybe people are too afraid of the word "hate-crime" that they want to avoid exploring the motive in question. Since that is probably the case, I think some people here are jaded.


So if the kid who was killed was hetero you would have less of an emotional reaction? Why?

Mister D
11-23-2011, 08:53 PM
My emotions are in check. I'm appalled that some other people's emotions are barely present. It pisses me off that a human being is killed, there was a very specific motive for it, and that motive is being completely ignored. I think if there is cause for me ever to become emotional about something, this would be one.

Maybe people are too afraid of the word "hate-crime" that they want to avoid exploring the motive in question. Since that is probably the case, I think some people here are jaded.


So if the kid who was killed was hetero you would have less of an emotional reaction? Why?


Good question. What sayeth Spunkloaf?

spunkloaf
11-24-2011, 09:12 AM
They certainly have more to fear now than they did before.

Mister D
11-24-2011, 11:23 AM
They certainly have more to fear now than they did before.


Because of this one incident?

spunkloaf
11-25-2011, 11:15 PM
You're taking this completely the wrong way, and it's pissing me off. Quit confusing yourselves. Gay people are not trying to obtain special "rights"


Let me make sure I put some extra huge quotations around that to exclaim the supposed silliness of the phrase just like D-wang did.



"gay rights"


I am allowed to be sensitive to this topic. I am allowed to take more of an emotional bias to this particular murder versus others. You must think that I am asking for a harsher punishment? That the suspect endures an extra eternity in hell? That all gay people receive reparations? That we all dedicate a holiday to gays? That gays don't have to pay their taxes? That gays are "special?"

Fuck you. I just can't breach your thick skulls, and I'll never be able to convince you of something other than what you have already preconceived.







Conley, thanks for being the only one who *asks* questions instead of explaining my thoughts to me. Yes, I do believe that society's attitude towards gays could have directly prevented this particular murder. NO, that doesn't mean that I am less sympathetic to any other murder; this is something some dumb fuck just preconceived and had the balls to say. That was very insensitive and arrogant to say the least.

spunkloaf
11-25-2011, 11:27 PM
So if the kid who was killed was hetero you would have less of an emotional reaction? Why?

I can imply ideas by using questions, too. Watch.


Are you an idiot?

spunkloaf
11-25-2011, 11:41 PM
For anybody to misconceive my words and then question them is perfectly innocent, but to contrive an evil spunkloaf mindset from it and challenge me with that is completely out of line on this particular subject.

Conley
11-26-2011, 10:14 AM
I don't think anyone is trying to project an evil mindset on you Spunk, I think we are just hungry for a good debate. I can certainly understand why this killing would resonate with you. I think it is fair to say at least for me that I don't have as strong a reaction to it as you, maybe I am more cynical. I remember kids getting killed for Air Jordan tennis shoes back in the day, and just yesterday I think there were a couple of shootings over Black Friday deals. All of it is so senseless that maybe I've just done the mental equivalent of throwing my hands in the air and thinking there will always be this kind of senseless killing.

In this particular case I do not think it is symbolic of society's attitude toward gays. You brought up (or maybe D did) Ellen, do you think an openly gay person could have had a show like hers twenty years ago? Do you think gay marriage was even a possibility? I think that homosexuality is more accepted in society now than it ever has been before when looking at the big picture, so I would hesitate to draw sweeping conclusions from this one horrific tragedy.

Mister D
11-26-2011, 10:56 AM
This society does not condone the murder of gays. Period. It never has.

As for "gay rights" in quotation marks it is not to demonstrate the "silliness" of term but its provisionality.

Mister D
11-26-2011, 10:57 AM
For anybody to misconceive my words and then question them is perfectly innocent, but to contrive an evil spunkloaf mindset from it and challenge me with that is completely out of line on this particular subject.

An evil spunkloaf mindset? :)