Muzzling free speech about taxes

[Chris]

...Spirit, Allegiant and Southwest are low-cost carriers that have thrived since the deregulation of the airline industry, which began in 1978. The government retains a narrow authority to prevent deceptive advertising practices. But as the airlines argued in petitioning the Supreme Court to hear their case, the government is micromanaging their speech merely to prevent the public from understanding the government’s tax burdens.

The government’s total price rule forbids the airlines from calling attention to the tax component of the price of a ticket by listing the price the airline charges and then the tax component with equal prominence. The rule mandates that any listing of the tax portion of a ticket’s price “not be displayed prominently and be presented in significantly smaller type than the listing of the total price.” The government is trying to prevent people from clearly seeing the burdens of government.

...Note two things. The airlines’ speech the government is regulating with the total price rule would be protected even if it were just commercial speech. And it actually is political speech: It calls its audience’s attention to, and invites disapproval of, government policy.

...In their brief asking the Supreme Court to reverse the D.C. Circuit’s decision, the airlines noted that the government is forbidding them to do what virtually every American industry does — advertise the pre-tax price of their products. Shirts and shoes and salamis are sold with the pre-tax sum on the price tag.

...Government is violating one of the natural rights that the Founders said government is “instituted” (the Declaration’s word) to protect....

@ Muzzling free speech about taxes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-the-government-puts-a-limit-on-free-speech-about-taxes/2013/03/29/8926f1ec-b348-11e2-bbf2-a6f9e9d79e19_story.html)


I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
~James Madison

[patrickt]

That was what got Prince Al Gore in trouble with the tax he wanted to levy on phone calls. I don't think the phone companies objected but they refused to hide the tax in the bill. That brought it to court.

[Greenridgeman]

That was what got Prince Al Gore in trouble with the tax he wanted to levy on phone calls. I don't think the phone companies objected but they refused to hid the tax in the bill. That brought it to court.


Do you ever read all the crap on the phone bill?

Amazing what the government can do.

[Chris]

Internet sales tax is likely next.

[BillyBob]

Internet sales tax is likely next.


Refuse to pay it. Refuse to pay income tax, too.

[Chris]

Refuse to pay it. Refuse to pay income tax, too.

And then suffer the full force of government like Maxwell's silver hammer upon your head. Remember, government's got a monopoly on force.

[BillyBob]

And then suffer the full force of government like Maxwell's silver hammer upon your head. Remember, government's got a monopoly on force.

Yeah, US citizens are supposed to fear the government. Been that way since the Founding.

[patrickt]

Assuming you're part of the 53% who pay income taxes, refuse to pay, BillyBoy, and let us know how that goes.

[BillyBob]

Assuming you're part of the 53% who pay income taxes, refuse to pay, BillyBoy, and let us know how that goes.

I have refused to pay for the last 25 years. Fuck the IRS.

[Chloe]

I have refused to pay for the last 25 years. Fuck the IRS.

Do you take advantage of things paid for by taxes, like roads and things like that? If so, don't you think that is wrong of you to do that if you don't help maintain those things?

[BillyBob]

Do you take advantage of things paid for by taxes, like roads and things like that? If so, don't you think that is wrong of you to do that if you don't help maintain those things?

Oh, I pay plenty of taxes. I just refuse to pay Income tax.

[Chloe]

Oh, I pay plenty of taxes. I just refuse to pay Income tax.

and they don't try to contact you about it?

[BillyBob]

and they don't try to contact you about it?


They tried, I beat them. Bam!

Now, if you are REALLY concerned about people not paying income taxes, there are millions of ghetto negroes who don't pay a penny. What do you suggest we do with them?

[zelmo1234]

Refuse to pay it. Refuse to pay income tax, too.

That doesn't work out well unless you are lookiing for room and board behind bars!

[TheDictator]

Do you take advantage of things paid for by taxes, like roads and things like that? If so, don't you think that is wrong of you to do that if you don't help maintain those things?


The income tax does not pay for roads. The high gas tax does.

[BillyBob]

That doesn't work out well unless you are lookiing for room and board behind bars!

Been doing it for over 2 decades now.

[patrickt]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chloe http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=282349#post282349)
"Do you take advantage of things paid for by taxes, like roads and things like that? If so, don't you think that is wrong of you to do that if you don't help maintain those things?"

Things "like that" take a minuscule portion of the taxes. Seventy percent of the taxes go to income redistribution for people who, ready for this, don't pay income tax and in many cases pay no taxes.

What about those who pay no taxes? You know, the ones who live on government handouts. We're not talking roads and things like that but liquor, crack cocaine, and visits to casinos.

Ah, yes, the new leisure class who demands more from those who do work.

[BillyBob]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chloe http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=282349#post282349)
"Do you take advantage of things paid for by taxes, like roads and things like that? If so, don't you think that is wrong of you to do that if you don't help maintain those things?"

Things "like that" take a minuscule portion of the taxes. Seventy percent of the taxes go to income redistribution for people who, ready for this, don't pay income tax and in many cases pay no taxes.

What about those who pay no taxes? You know, the ones who live on government handouts. We're not talking roads and things like that but liquor, crack cocaine, and visits to casinos.

Ah, yes, the new leisure class who demands more from those who do work.

And now you know why I refuse to pay income tax.

[Taxcutter]

Taxes, taxes, taxes.

The Tea Party stands for less spending and less taxation.

[Chris]

Do you take advantage of things paid for by taxes, like roads and things like that? If so, don't you think that is wrong of you to do that if you don't help maintain those things?

Shouldn't then everyone have to pay taxes?

Shouldn't everyone have to pay an equal amount of taxes?

[Kalkin]

Internet sales tax is likely next.
I used to like woot, good deals, always a flat $5 shipping. Recently, everything has tax added. I haven't bought from them since.

[Kalkin]

Do you take advantage of things paid for by taxes, like roads and things like that? If so, don't you think that is wrong of you to do that if you don't help maintain those things?
Roads aren't funded by income taxes. Jus' sayin'.

[simpsonofpg]

Internet sales tax is likely next.

I was just watching TV about sales tax on internet sales and how many companies it will put out of business. Our government still want more taxes so they can spend more money. There is not talk about lower spending. Wait until we start paying taxes on our Obama care. We have to get this repeal.

[Peter1469]

Are these internet sales taxes going to cover sites like Ebay or Craigs List? I have sold stuff on CL, and if I had to charge and process a sales tax I would not bother.

[Chris]

Are these internet sales taxes going to cover sites like Ebay or Craigs List? I have sold stuff on CL, and if I had to charge and process a sales tax I would not bother.

Not real sure, just started hearing about it.

[Chris]

Quick synopsis on the Internet tax.

It's called "Marketplace Fairness Act". Head for the hills!

Sounds liberal? But even Paul Ryan finds it solid. Ted Cruz is against this "incomprehensible" bill.

The Senate passed it today.

The change: Previously taxes could be collected by the seller's state if the seller had a physical presence in the buyer's state. I think I got that right. Now, it will be imposed on all sales.

[Peter1469]

Quick synopsis on the Internet tax.

It's called "Marketplace Fairness Act". Head for the hills!

Sounds liberal? But even Paul Ryan finds it solid. Ted Cruz is against this "incomprehensible" bill.

The Senate passed it today.

The change: Previously taxes could be collected by the seller's state if the seller had a physical presence in the buyer's state. I think I got that right. Now, it will be imposed on all sales.

Which state gets to tax the sale? Take Amazon, for instance. Does the state where the item is shipped from tax the sale? Or does the state where the buyer is located tax the sale? If the latter, I can see how that would kill small businesses- they would have to manage state tax law from all 50 states.

[Chris]

Which state gets to tax the sale? Take Amazon, for instance. Does the state where the item is shipped from tax the sale? Or does the state where the buyer is located tax the sale? If the latter, I can see how that would kill small businesses- they would have to manage state tax law from all 50 states.

It's awful confusing but here is perhaps the clearest explanation:


...The version passed in the Senate by a 69-27 vote “has a long way to go,” Goodlatte said Monday.

For one, Goodlatte said, the bill does not go far enough to simplify the way online businesses would go about taxing out of state customers.

Under the legislation passed in the Senate, states would be empowered to compel online retailers with more than $1 million in sales to collect taxes from their residents, even if the retailer is based in a state that does not charge a sales tax.

Mostly conservatives and Senators from states with no sales tax opposed the bill. They argued it would be a job-killing burden for small businesses who sell online to have to collect taxes in other states.

Proponents say an online tax is necessary to level the playing field between online and “brick and mortar” retailers who must charge a tax.

States with no income tax particularly like the legislation, because they depend more heavily on sales taxes.

@ House Hits Brakes on Internet Tax Passed by Senate (http://washingtonexaminer.com/house-hits-brakes-on-internet-tax-passed-by-senate/article/2529022)

[patrickt]

Chris: "The change: Previously taxes could be collected by the seller's state if the seller had a physical presence in the buyer's state. I think I got that right. Now, it will be imposed on all sales."

Not quite. The tax was imposed by all places with a sales tax but the victim was supposed to self-report the purchase. When I buy books from Amazon, billed to an address in Tennessee, I've been paying sales tax on some purchases, but not others, and it's up to Amazon to collect for the government.

This law will simply make the vendors the tax collectors for the government.

Note: For many liberals any discussion of taxes in hypothetical since they don't pay them.

[Chris]

Chris: "The change: Previously taxes could be collected by the seller's state if the seller had a physical presence in the buyer's state. I think I got that right. Now, it will be imposed on all sales."

Not quite. The tax was imposed by all places with a sales tax but the victim was supposed to self-report the purchase. When I buy books from Amazon, billed to an address in Tennessee, I've been paying sales tax on some purchases, but not others, and it's up to Amazon to collect for the government.

This law will simply make the vendors the tax collectors for the government.

Note: For many liberals any discussion of taxes in hypothetical since they don't pay them.

Thanks for clarification! I think this about nails it: "This law will simply make the vendors the tax collectors for the government." Bigger vendors can afford the added burden, mom and pops can't.