IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

[ptif219]

So now Obamacare will be unaffordable for most people. most of us know this is the plan.

This will put insurance companies out of business and open the door for government run healthcare

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family



In a final regulation (http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/REG-148500-12%20FR.pdf) issued Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost $20,000 for the year. Under Obamacare, Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS.
The IRS's assumption that the cheapest plan for a family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan.
The examples point to families of four and families of five, both of which the IRS expects in its assumptions to pay a minimum of $20,000 per year for a bronze plan.

[nic34]

So now Obamacare will be unaffordable for most people. most of us know this is the plan.

This will put insurance companies out of business and open the door for government run healthcare

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family

From a January 2013 story.....

This is from Feburary:


When the IRS published its final rule two weeks ago on how ObamaCare's tax penalty will work for those who turn down affordable coverage, it included a number of possible scenarios.
In one, the IRS wrote, "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000" in 2016.

A short time later, near the top of the Drudge Report, a headline from conservative news site CNSNews.com blared out this shocking headline (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family): "IRS: Cheapest ObamaCare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family."

From there, the news pretty much went viral, as that "fact" got picked up by countless media outlets and pundits, most of them on the right (here (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/wheels_coming_off_QPojjZX0Bd8BU80hDpcKZP); here (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/02/01/there_are_reasons_for_optimism) and here (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/01/Not-Affordable-IRS-estimates-Cheapest-Obamacare-Plan-will-Cost-20K)), but not all (here (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/02/irs-anticipates-cheapest-obamacare-family-plan-will-be-20000-in-2016.html)).
The only problem is that the $20,000 figure was an example that has no basis in fact. The IRS always uses hypothetical numerical examples in its regulations to illustrate how the rules will work in practice and this was no different.

The reported $20,000 cost of a low-cost ObamaCare plan was a hypothetical, not an estimate or an assumption, as should have been evident from other clearly contradictory IRS examples.
For example: "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 4 (1 adult, 3 children) is $18,000."

Both examples can't be true, unless an adult's premium is $2,000 and a child's is $5,333.
The most current information from the Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-15-ACA_and_Insurance_2.pdf) and the Joint Committee on Taxation put the cost of a family policy purchased through an employer in 2016 at $20,000 vs. $15,745 last year (http://www.kff.org/insurance/ehbs091112nr.cfm).
In 2016, average premiums for a family of four buying a silver-level plan through ObamaCare's exchange are expected to be $15,400 — before subsidies. The lowest-cost bronze plan, which is far less comprehensive than typical employer policies, would cost about 85% of a silver plan, or $13,000.

In this case, I'm guessing the truth won't go viral.

http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/021513-644675-obamacare-cheapest-plan-wont-cost-20000.htm

[Agravan]

From a January 2013 story.....

This is from Feburary:


When the IRS published its final rule two weeks ago on how ObamaCare's tax penalty will work for those who turn down affordable coverage, it included a number of possible scenarios.
In one, the IRS wrote, "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000" in 2016.

A short time later, near the top of the Drudge Report, a headline from conservative news site CNSNews.com blared out this shocking headline (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family): "IRS: Cheapest ObamaCare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family."

From there, the news pretty much went viral, as that "fact" got picked up by countless media outlets and pundits, most of them on the right (here (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/wheels_coming_off_QPojjZX0Bd8BU80hDpcKZP); here (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/02/01/there_are_reasons_for_optimism) and here (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/01/Not-Affordable-IRS-estimates-Cheapest-Obamacare-Plan-will-Cost-20K)), but not all (here (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/02/irs-anticipates-cheapest-obamacare-family-plan-will-be-20000-in-2016.html)).
The only problem is that the $20,000 figure was an example that has no basis in fact. The IRS always uses hypothetical numerical examples in its regulations to illustrate how the rules will work in practice and this was no different.

The reported $20,000 cost of a low-cost ObamaCare plan was a hypothetical, not an estimate or an assumption, as should have been evident from other clearly contradictory IRS examples.
For example: "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 4 (1 adult, 3 children) is $18,000."

Both examples can't be true, unless an adult's premium is $2,000 and a child's is $5,333.
The most current information from the Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-15-ACA_and_Insurance_2.pdf) and the Joint Committee on Taxation put the cost of a family policy purchased through an employer in 2016 at $20,000 vs. $15,745 last year (http://www.kff.org/insurance/ehbs091112nr.cfm).
In 2016, average premiums for a family of four buying a silver-level plan through ObamaCare's exchange are expected to be $15,400 — before subsidies. The lowest-cost bronze plan, which is far less comprehensive than typical employer policies, would cost about 85% of a silver plan, or $13,000.

In this case, I'm guessing the truth won't go viral.

http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/021513-644675-obamacare-cheapest-plan-wont-cost-20000.htm


Oh well, it's only $13,000.

Hell that's pocket change, right Nic? Everybody can afford that, especially the family earning $30,000 per year BEFORE taxes. Nahh, the poor won't be adversely affected, right?

[lynn]

The average family plan now depending on what state you live in is anywhere from 12,000 to 16,000 annually.

[ptif219]

From a January 2013 story.....

This is from Feburary:


When the IRS published its final rule two weeks ago on how ObamaCare's tax penalty will work for those who turn down affordable coverage, it included a number of possible scenarios.
In one, the IRS wrote, "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000" in 2016.

A short time later, near the top of the Drudge Report, a headline from conservative news site CNSNews.com blared out this shocking headline (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family): "IRS: Cheapest ObamaCare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family."

From there, the news pretty much went viral, as that "fact" got picked up by countless media outlets and pundits, most of them on the right (here (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/wheels_coming_off_QPojjZX0Bd8BU80hDpcKZP); here (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/02/01/there_are_reasons_for_optimism) and here (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/01/Not-Affordable-IRS-estimates-Cheapest-Obamacare-Plan-will-Cost-20K)), but not all (here (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/02/irs-anticipates-cheapest-obamacare-family-plan-will-be-20000-in-2016.html)).
The only problem is that the $20,000 figure was an example that has no basis in fact. The IRS always uses hypothetical numerical examples in its regulations to illustrate how the rules will work in practice and this was no different.

The reported $20,000 cost of a low-cost ObamaCare plan was a hypothetical, not an estimate or an assumption, as should have been evident from other clearly contradictory IRS examples.
For example: "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 4 (1 adult, 3 children) is $18,000."

Both examples can't be true, unless an adult's premium is $2,000 and a child's is $5,333.
The most current information from the Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-15-ACA_and_Insurance_2.pdf) and the Joint Committee on Taxation put the cost of a family policy purchased through an employer in 2016 at $20,000 vs. $15,745 last year (http://www.kff.org/insurance/ehbs091112nr.cfm).
In 2016, average premiums for a family of four buying a silver-level plan through ObamaCare's exchange are expected to be $15,400 — before subsidies. The lowest-cost bronze plan, which is far less comprehensive than typical employer policies, would cost about 85% of a silver plan, or $13,000.

In this case, I'm guessing the truth won't go viral.

http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/021513-644675-obamacare-cheapest-plan-wont-cost-20000.htm



Yet the OP is quoting the IRS that will enforce the law

[simpsonofpg]

sure am glad I am on medicare. Thanks to our congressman for voting for this debacel. They of course will not be part of the plan because they voted their own special deal.

[Montoya]

So now Obamacare will be unaffordable for most people. most of us know this is the plan.

This will put insurance companies out of business and open the door for government run healthcare

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family

The way it should be.

[Mainecoons]

So now Obamacare will be unaffordable for most people. most of us know this is the plan.

This will put insurance companies out of business and open the door for government run healthcare

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family

That was the idea from the beginning.

[nic34]

Oh well, it's only $13,000.

Hell that's pocket change, right Nic? Everybody can afford that, especially the family earning $30,000 per year BEFORE taxes. Nahh, the poor won't be adversely affected, right?

You need to read.... that's before subsidies for those that need them......


In 2016, average premiums for a family of four buying a silver-level plan through ObamaCare's exchange are expected to be $15,400 — before subsidies.

[jillian]

From a January 2013 story.....

This is from Feburary:


When the IRS published its final rule two weeks ago on how ObamaCare's tax penalty will work for those who turn down affordable coverage, it included a number of possible scenarios.
In one, the IRS wrote, "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000" in 2016.

A short time later, near the top of the Drudge Report, a headline from conservative news site CNSNews.com blared out this shocking headline (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family): "IRS: Cheapest ObamaCare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family."

From there, the news pretty much went viral, as that "fact" got picked up by countless media outlets and pundits, most of them on the right (here (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/wheels_coming_off_QPojjZX0Bd8BU80hDpcKZP); here (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/02/01/there_are_reasons_for_optimism) and here (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/01/Not-Affordable-IRS-estimates-Cheapest-Obamacare-Plan-will-Cost-20K)), but not all (here (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/02/irs-anticipates-cheapest-obamacare-family-plan-will-be-20000-in-2016.html)).
The only problem is that the $20,000 figure was an example that has no basis in fact. The IRS always uses hypothetical numerical examples in its regulations to illustrate how the rules will work in practice and this was no different.

The reported $20,000 cost of a low-cost ObamaCare plan was a hypothetical, not an estimate or an assumption, as should have been evident from other clearly contradictory IRS examples.
For example: "The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 4 (1 adult, 3 children) is $18,000."

Both examples can't be true, unless an adult's premium is $2,000 and a child's is $5,333.
The most current information from the Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-15-ACA_and_Insurance_2.pdf) and the Joint Committee on Taxation put the cost of a family policy purchased through an employer in 2016 at $20,000 vs. $15,745 last year (http://www.kff.org/insurance/ehbs091112nr.cfm).
In 2016, average premiums for a family of four buying a silver-level plan through ObamaCare's exchange are expected to be $15,400 — before subsidies. The lowest-cost bronze plan, which is far less comprehensive than typical employer policies, would cost about 85% of a silver plan, or $13,000.

In this case, I'm guessing the truth won't go viral.

http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/021513-644675-obamacare-cheapest-plan-wont-cost-20000.htm



you mean... drudge made up something that the rightwingnut blogosphere decided was true? lol.. i'm shocked.

the reports i'm hearing say that the exchange set up in california is actually more affordable and more comprehensive than previously estimated.

and not for nothing, i paid $2,100 a month for a family of three when i bought my own coverage, with $1,000 deductible per person and randomly set 80% of "reasonable and customary" on out of network coverage.

based on this link, i'd be paying about half of that.

http://www.coveredca.com/calculating_the_cost.html

and that seems to be on the high end b/c it's a sliding scale based on income.

works for me.

[jillian]

So now Obamacare will be unaffordable for most people. most of us know this is the plan.

This will put insurance companies out of business and open the door for government run healthcare

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family

really?

interesting.

because if you already have coverage, it's a non issue for you.

if you don't, your cost will be based on income.

oh nooooooo!

and if you have coverage, you reallyshouldn't worry about it, since you're ok with all the people filing bankruptcy because they aren't covered and can't pay for medical care.

i love rightwingers. you all don't even pretend to be compassionate conservatives any more.

[Mainecoons]

I love liberals, they come up with a medical "plan" that is so complicated it runs to 2000 pages, every economic analysis shows that it is a bomb in the making, and they still pretend that they are compassionate for blowing up the medical system so bad that best estimates are that 30 million will remain uninsured.

And they plan to "subsidize" it by printing money.

Liberals, you can't fix stupid.

[zelmo1234]

You need to read.... that's before subsidies for those that need them......

The subsidies come in the form of tax credits? You still need to come up with the money, they are talking about a voucher program but if it works they open up the voucher program for education and they do not want that door opened!

You are looking at over a 1000 dollars a month coming our of your budget, and tell me how much you would need to take home before that becomes a problem!

[zelmo1234]

really?

interesting.

because if you already have coverage, it's a non issue for you.

if you don't, your cost will be based on income.

oh nooooooo!

and if you have coverage, you reallyshouldn't worry about it, since you're ok with all the people filing bankruptcy because they aren't covered and can't pay for medical care.

i love rightwingers. you all don't even pretend to be compassionate conservatives any more.

What about the people that are going to loose their coverage, and loose their jobs or be moved to part time?

Shou.d we worry about those people! You have Catapillar talking about getting out of the insurance busines. ONce the first large corporation goes, the rest will follow!

Not to mention the drastic rise in insuance premiom caused by this bill!

It is a looser at best and at worst it will toss us into a deeper recession that we aer alrady trying to recover from

[jillian]

What about the people that are going to loose their coverage, and loose their jobs or be moved to part time?

Shou.d we worry about those people! You have Catapillar talking about getting out of the insurance busines. ONce the first large corporation goes, the rest will follow!

Not to mention the drastic rise in insuance premiom caused by this bill!

It is a looser at best and at worst it will toss us into a deeper recession that we aer alrady trying to recover from

you keep talking about people losing coverage.

i think its nonsense.

but please, let me know if and when it happens.

until then it's propaganda.

[Mainecoons]

People have already started losing their coverage, genius.


“The CBO has long said it expects the new federal health law will prompt some companies to drop millions of employees from health plans because workers have new options to buy insurance on their own. In August, CBO put the number at four million over 10 years. Now it’s seven million. What changed? Nothing about the health law. Rather, the cliff deal that was enacted in January. When CBO crunched the numbers in August, it assumed that no cliff deal would be reached and higher tax rates would kick in. Economists typically assume that higher tax rates mean that more people are offered, and accept, employer-provided health benefits, says Paul Fronstin, a senior research associate at the Employee Benefit Research Institute. That’s because health benefits are tax-deductible for companies, and so are any premiums that the employee is required to contribute.”

Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/02/07/cbo_is_increasingly_skeptical_about_obamacare_1169 51.html#ixzz2VGPSrTa2

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/02/business/la-fi-part-time-healthcare-20130502

[jillian]

People have already started losing their coverage, genius.


[/FONT][/COLOR]
Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/02/07/cbo_is_increasingly_skeptical_about_obamacare_1169 51.html#ixzz2VGPSrTa2

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/02/business/la-fi-part-time-healthcare-20130502



the first one is surmise.

the second says it's possible that part time workers will lose coverage.

is the number of part time workers covered now even significant. really, there are only a few companies that offer that type of thing to people working less than 40 hours a week. i know starbucks does... and i doubt that will change given howard shultz's background.

[Mainecoons]

Go look at the data detailing the shift to part time employment. This is being driven by ObamaCare and this is how people are ALREADY losing their health care.

http://www.investors.com/image/WEBhrs0604-(2)_600.gif.cms


Not surprisingly, there's evidence that employers are already taking steps to dodge ObamaCare's penalties. Retailers have been cutting hours (http://news.investors.com/economy/050313-654674-retail-workweek-3-year-low-on-obamacare.htm) for nonsupervisory workers at the sharpest rate in more than three decades, Labor Department data show.Still, there is much uncertainty about just how dramatic the shift to sub-30 hours per week will be. Employers will likely perceive a cost to worker productivity and satisfaction if they depend too heavily on part-timers. However, the pressure to keep prices low or risk losing business may limit flexibility.


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/060313-658533-obamacare-cost-of-96-an-hour-may-end-30-hour-workweek.htm#ixzz2VLTmr4tc

[Micketto]

Oh well, it's only $13,000.

Hell that's pocket change, right Nic? Everybody can afford that, especially the family earning $30,000 per year BEFORE taxes. Nahh, the poor won't be adversely affected, right?

$13,000 isn't bad.... depending on what it covers.

I pay $10k for myself.
$250 deductible and 80% coverage on everything... No charge for Dr visits, and scripts are $15 or $30.
Not sure how that compares to what my parents paid before they died.

From what I've read, Obama can't touch me.

But since even he hasn't read the 2,000 pages, and there seem to be lots of problems in it like the 16 page application to see if the poor are even applicable (lol), etc.... who really knows.

Pelosi said they had to pass it to know what's in it.... which mans the Dems vote on things they aren't even familiar with.
But I have yet to hear from anyone that has an actual grasp of everything that's included.

If I was forced to partake then I would definitely be concerned. I understand the IRS is very trustworthy and all ;).... but the services that come with his plans.... will likely be sketchy at best.

2859

[lynn]

$13,000 isn't bad.... depending on what it covers.

I pay $10k for myself.
$250 deductible and 80% coverage on everything... No charge for Dr visits, and scripts are $15 or $30.
Not sure how that compares to what my parents paid before they died.

From what I've read, Obama can't touch me.

But since even he hasn't read the 2,000 pages, and there seem to be lots of problems in it like the 16 page application to see if the poor are even applicable (lol), etc.... who really knows.

Pelosi said they had to pass it to know what's in it.... which mans the Dems vote on things they aren't even familiar with.
But I have yet to hear from anyone that has an actual grasp of everything that's included.

If I was forced to partake then I would definitely be concerned. I understand the IRS is very trustworthy and all ;).... but the services that come with his plans.... will likely be sketchy at best.

2859

You pay that for single coverage, may I ask how old you are?

[Micketto]

25

[lynn]

25

You pay 10K annually for premiums and you think that is reasonable for your age? You are paying way too much for insurance for a 25 year old guy.

[jillian]

You pay 10K annually for premiums and you think that is reasonable for your age? You are paying way too much for insurance for a 25 year old guy.

how do you figure?

[zelmo1234]

I see that the CBO is estimation that 13 million will loose insurance now? But this actually could lower the insurance pool prices, if they all decide to insure!

[Ivan88]

Some of us have had free government insurance all along. It is the GSAD plan.

[ptif219]

The way it should be.

You will not like what the government does

[ptif219]

really?

interesting.

because if you already have coverage, it's a non issue for you.

if you don't, your cost will be based on income.

oh nooooooo!

and if you have coverage, you reallyshouldn't worry about it, since you're ok with all the people filing bankruptcy because they aren't covered and can't pay for medical care.

i love rightwingers. you all don't even pretend to be compassionate conservatives any more.

It is not a non-issue if insurance goes up so companies can not afford it

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2013/04/07/look-out-below-the-obamacare-chaos-is-coming/


Just wait until the broad realization dawns that the harsh reality of Obamacare is that tens of millions will lose their employer provided insurance because of the perverse incentives under the program. Even the establishment CBO admits that at least 7 million, and as many as 20 million, will lose their employer coverage. In February, CBO reported that “in 2019 [5 years after Obamacare is implemented], an estimated 12 million people who would have had an offer of employment-based coverage under prior law will lose their offer under current law [aka ‘Obamacare’].”

[ptif219]

how do you figure?

Coverage for me and my wife through work is $105 a week. I am 59 years old

[Micketto]

You pay 10K annually for premiums and you think that is reasonable for your age? You are paying way too much for insurance for a 25 year old guy.

I could have chosen cheaper plans with the insurance company I go through, but...
I chose to not be bound to a "network" (I travel a lot).
I chose $250 annual deduct.
I chose free office visits.
I chose no "primary Dr" situation where I'd have to get permission before seeing a specialist.
Etc, etc...

Basically the plan I pieced together fits my desires (since they don't have a $0 deductible plan, heh), and it's just under $10k.

That's nothing.

[nic34]

I pay $45/month thru work... $2000/yr deduct.

I get to keep it even when the ACA kicks in.

Thanks Obamacare.....

[zelmo1234]

I pay $45/month thru work... $2000/yr deduct.

I get to keep it even when the ACA kicks in.

Thanks Obamacare.....

That is great for you? many will not have the same luxury!

[Micketto]

I pay $45/month thru work... $2000/yr deduct.

I get to keep it even when the ACA kicks in.

Thanks Obamacare.....

I get to keep mine too, apparently no matter what Obamacare tries to do (loopholes and stuff).

So until he starts enacting executive orders stating otherwise....

Thanks Obamacare....