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TheDictator
06-04-2013, 03:18 PM
1 Corinthians 10:16 (http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/10-16.htm)

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Holy Communion: What does it mean for us Christians?

Micketto
06-04-2013, 04:58 PM
Sincere symbolism.
The doughy wafer and grape juice, representing the blood and body of Christ, of course.
The "broken bread" representing His broken body on the cross... and the red juice representing the blood He shed.
Not to be taken lightly.

Coming from a Protestant upbringing/belief.... it's not a part of our regular church services. Whereas Catholics do it every week I think ?
Most Protestant churches do it once a month, my church just has it available for anyone, or any family, that wants to partake at any time during the music.



Can only imagine how many atheists, Jews, or Chris's.... will join this thread to counter everything that a Christian says... then complain that you have shoved this down their throats.

As has happened before.

Mister D
06-04-2013, 05:18 PM
Sincere symbolism.
The doughy wafer and grape juice, representing the blood and body of Christ, of course.
The "broken bread" representing His broken body on the cross... and the red juice representing the blood He shed.
Not to be taken lightly.

Coming from a Protestant upbringing/belief.... it's not a part of our regular church services. Whereas Catholics do it every week I think ?
Most Protestant churches do it once a month, my church just has it available for anyone, or any family, that wants to partake at any time during the music.



Can only imagine how many atheists, Jews, or Chris's.... will join this thread to counter everything that a Christian says... then complain that you have shoved this down their throats.

As has happened before.

Every Mass. Lutherans too.

nic34
06-04-2013, 05:36 PM
Depends on who you ask. A Catholic will say yes. A Protestant, no.

If you ask me, it's just bread and wine.

jillian
06-04-2013, 05:40 PM
Depends on who you ask. A Catholic will say yes. A Protestant, no.

If you ask me, it's just bread and wine.

there's nothing wrong with a little symbolism.

Peter1469
06-04-2013, 05:41 PM
very vampiric

Chris
06-04-2013, 05:50 PM
Sincere symbolism.
The doughy wafer and grape juice, representing the blood and body of Christ, of course.
The "broken bread" representing His broken body on the cross... and the red juice representing the blood He shed.
Not to be taken lightly.

Coming from a Protestant upbringing/belief.... it's not a part of our regular church services. Whereas Catholics do it every week I think ?
Most Protestant churches do it once a month, my church just has it available for anyone, or any family, that wants to partake at any time during the music.



Can only imagine how many atheists, Jews, or Chris's.... will join this thread to counter everything that a Christian says... then complain that you have shoved this down their throats.

As has happened before.

I haven't countered anything Christian anyone has said. Nor have I said anything has been forced on me. Why are you making things up? Why do you want to take a nice thread off track with your emotional, irrational rants? Is that the Christian thing to do?

Chris
06-04-2013, 05:52 PM
very vampiric

Drink the blood? Never thought of that one before.

TheDictator
06-04-2013, 06:37 PM
Sincere symbolism.
The doughy wafer and grape juice, representing the blood and body of Christ, of course.
The "broken bread" representing His broken body on the cross... and the red juice representing the blood He shed.
Not to be taken lightly.

Coming from a Protestant upbringing/belief.... it's not a part of our regular church services. Whereas Catholics do it every week I think ?
Most Protestant churches do it once a month, my church just has it available for anyone, or any family, that wants to partake at any time during the music.



Can only imagine how many atheists, Jews, or Chris's.... will join this thread to counter everything that a Christian says... then complain that you have shoved this down their throats.

As has happened before.
This is also symbolic of the Jewish Passover, A Christian Passover of the death of the first born of God. My Church is Protestant and we do this each week. We also believe that Jesus is with us spirituality and taking communion with us. We practice Open communion, I know some practice closed communion and that is ok. Does anyone on here do that if so why? just curious.

TheDictator
06-04-2013, 06:42 PM
very vampiric
Yes, Roman Government tried to use that for a reason for killing Christians. They said that Christians are drinking each others blood. That was and is a lie.

TheDictator
06-04-2013, 06:52 PM
Also does anyone know why Christians use Unleavened Bread? I know but I would like to see what others say.

Mister D
06-04-2013, 07:07 PM
Also does anyone know why Christians use Unleavened Bread? I know but I would like to see what others say.

The bread at the Last Supper ( Passover) would have been Unleavened?

TheDictator
06-04-2013, 07:23 PM
The bread at the Last Supper ( Passover) would have been Unleavened?

True, but there is a symbolic reason also.

Peter1469
06-04-2013, 08:42 PM
Drink the blood? Never thought of that one before.

That is what the wine is, after all....

jillian
06-04-2013, 08:50 PM
Also does anyone know why Christians use Unleavened Bread? I know but I would like to see what others say.

because the last supper was the passover seder and the "bread" he broke when he said "this is my body" was matzoh.

jillian
06-04-2013, 08:51 PM
That is what the wine is, after all....

symbolic... again, they were doing the passover seder and there is a point in the sedar where drops of wine are spilled from a glass to represent blood and each of the plagues.

jillian
06-04-2013, 09:00 PM
True, but there is a symbolic reason also.

not that i know of

Peter1469
06-04-2013, 09:01 PM
symbolic... again, they were doing the passover seder and there is a point in the sedar where drops of wine are spilled from a glass to represent blood and each of the plagues.'

It isn't symbolic in Catholic doctrine. The wine is actually Christ's blood.

jillian
06-04-2013, 09:02 PM
'

It isn't symbolic in Catholic doctrine. The wine is actually Christ's blood.

i don't know... i'm not catholic. but i'd be surprised if that were the case.

Peter1469
06-04-2013, 09:04 PM
i don't know... i'm not catholic. but i'd be surprised if that were the case.

For what it is worth... http://carm.org/mass-and-sacrifice-christ

According to Roman Catholicism, Christ instituted the Mass when he said, "This is my body," (Matt. 26:26 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Matt.%2026.26)) and "This is my blood," (Matt. 26:28 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Matt.%2026.28)). Furthermore, Roman Catholicism teaches that when Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me," he gave the apostles and hence his future priests the power to change bread and wine into his body and blood, (Baltimore Catechism, Vol. 2, Q. 354). Therefore, during the ceremony of the Mass during the part of the liturgy known as the consecration, the priest changes of bread and wine into Christ's body and blood (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1105).

jillian
06-04-2013, 09:06 PM
For what it is worth... http://carm.org/mass-and-sacrifice-christ

According to Roman Catholicism, Christ instituted the Mass when he said, "This is my body," (Matt. 26:26 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Matt. 26.26)) and "This is my blood," (Matt. 26:28 (http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Matt. 26.28)). Furthermore, Roman Catholicism teaches that when Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me," he gave the apostles and hence his future priests the power to change bread and wine into his body and blood, (Baltimore Catechism, Vol. 2, Q. 354). Therefore, during the ceremony of the Mass during the part of the liturgy known as the consecration, the priest changes of bread and wine into Christ's body and blood (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1105).

oy

Peter1469
06-04-2013, 09:08 PM
oy

Like I said, very vampiric.

jillian
06-04-2013, 09:09 PM
Like I said, very vampiric.

i don't get it.

Chris
06-04-2013, 09:09 PM
That is what the wine is, after all....

Right, I meant the vampire part.

Peter1469
06-04-2013, 09:12 PM
i don't get it.

If you drink someones blood, what could you be called?

jillian
06-04-2013, 09:14 PM
If you drink someones blood, what could you be called?

oh... that part i got...

it's the belief that it turns into blood that i don't get.

heck of a leap of faith

Chris
06-04-2013, 09:17 PM
It's called transubstantiation.

Micketto
06-05-2013, 07:50 AM
'

It isn't symbolic in Catholic doctrine. The wine is actually Christ's blood.

You're being way too literal.

To "turn into blood" is all symbolism. There is no magic involved. The wine or juice.... is wine or juice.

No one drinks it thinking they are drinking actual blood.

Chris
06-05-2013, 07:54 AM
Transubstantiation @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation


In Roman Catholic theology, transubstantiation (in Latin, transsubstantiatio, in Greek μετουσίωσις metousiosis) is the doctrine that, in the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and the wine used in the sacrament is literally, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but in actual reality as well,[1][2] changed into the substance of the Body and the Blood of Jesus,[3] while all that is accessible to the senses (the physical[citation needed] appearances - species[4][5][6] in Latin) remains unchanged.[7][8] What remains unaltered is also referred to as the "accidents" of the bread and wine,[9] but this term is not used in the official definition of the doctrine by the Council of Trent.[10]

TheDictator
06-05-2013, 08:21 AM
It's called transubstantiation.

Yes, but I believe the Catholics are the only ones that believe that.

TheDictator
06-05-2013, 08:23 AM
You're being way too literal.

To "turn into blood" is all symbolism. There is no magic involved. The wine or juice.... is wine or juice.

No one drinks it thinking they are drinking actual blood.

Yes, but the Catholics truly believe they are eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ.

TheDictator
06-05-2013, 08:30 AM
because the last supper was the passover seder and the "bread" he broke when he said "this is my body" was matzoh.

That is true, but in the New Testament yeast is symbolic for sin, so unleavened bread is symbolic of the sinless body of Jesus Christ.

Chris
06-05-2013, 08:31 AM
Yes, but I believe the Catholics are the only ones that believe that.

Protestants generally don't. But according to article linked above, Eastern Catholic, Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox Churches, along with the Assyrian Church of the East do. Anglicans do. But Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists reject.

TheDictator
06-05-2013, 08:36 AM
Protestants generally don't. But according to article linked above, Eastern Catholic, Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox Churches, along with the Assyrian Church of the East do. Anglicans do. But Protestants, Lutherans, Methodists reject.

Ok, I did not know that, but not all Anglicans do because I know some that don't believe that.

Chris
06-05-2013, 08:40 AM
Back to vampires.

Apparently in Judaism there is something of a tradition from medieval times of rabbinic interpretation of the two versions of Genesis that the first concerns Adam's first wife Lilith. "Scholars are not certain where the character of Lilith comes from, though many believe she was inspired by Sumerian myths about female vampires called “Lillu” or Mesopotamian myths about succubae (female night demons) called “lilin.”"


The legend of Lilith derives from a theory that Genesis has two creation accounts (Genesis 1:27 and 2:7, 20–22). The two stories allow for two different women. Lilith does not appear in the Bible (apart from a debatable reference comparing her to a screech owl in the Hebrew text of Isaiah 34:14). Some rabbinic commentators, however, refer to Lilith as the first created woman, who refused to submit to Adam and fled from the garden. Eve was then created to be Adam's helper. After their expulsion from the garden, Adam reunited for a time with Lilith before finally returning to Eve. Lilith bore Adam a number of children, who became the demons of the Bible. According to kabbalistic legend, after Adam's reconciliation with Eve, Lilith took the title Queen of the Demons and became a murderer of infants and young boys, whom she turned into vampires.

Cabal, T., Brand, C. O., Clendenen, E. R., Copan, P., Moreland, J., & Powell, D. (2007). The Apologetics Study Bible: Real Questions, Straight Answers, Stronger Faith (5). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdoesthebiblesay/a/Vampire-In-The-Bible.htm

Chris
06-05-2013, 08:44 AM
Ok, I did not know that, but not all Anglicans do because I know some that don't believe that.

Anglicans like Lutherans and Methodists believe in something called "the Real Presence" which the article might confuse with transubstantiation.

Protestants generally like said above by someone consider it symbolic only.

Interesting stuff.

Micketto
06-05-2013, 09:24 AM
Yes, but the Catholics truly believe they are eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ.

"Some people" may... but "The Catholics", as a whole, I'm sure know that it's just a wafer and wine. At least any Catholic I have ever discussed differences with.

I'd be very surprised, in this day and age, if I ever ran into anyone that believed this is the case since the original Eucharist.

Some people are calling it "Vampiric" but they are totally missing a major fact... these people were not seeking blood... it was given to them for a reason. They didn't need it to continue living.

I eat my steaks rare quite often... I guess that makes me a vampire too.

TheDictator
06-05-2013, 09:45 AM
Anglicans like Lutherans and Methodists believe in something called "the Real Presence" which the article might confuse with transubstantiation.

Protestants generally like said above by someone consider it symbolic only.

Interesting stuff.

That is not the same as the Catholics at all. "The Real Presence" from what I have been told, is the Spiritual Presence of Christ in the Wine and Bread. I believe in something like it, the The spiritual presence of Christ eating and drinking with us in communion.

Mister D
06-05-2013, 09:46 AM
These are stale doctrinal disputes.

Chris
06-05-2013, 09:48 AM
That is not the same as the Catholics at all. "The Real Presence" from what I have been told, is the Spiritual Presence of Christ in the Wine and Bread. I believe in something like it, the The spiritual presence of Christ eating and drinking with us in communion.

Right, different visions altogether.

TheDictator
06-05-2013, 10:03 AM
These are stale doctrinal disputes.

Well please post a fresh doctrine we can talk about.

Mister D
06-05-2013, 10:49 AM
Well please post a fresh doctrine we can talk about.

Hey, if you want to indulge in what the bible explicitly tells you not to do go right ahead.

TheDictator
06-05-2013, 12:33 PM
Hey, if you want to indulge in what the bible explicitly tells you not to do go right ahead.

How about this one.

1 Corinthians 11

So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 (http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-28.htm)Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 (http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-29.htm)For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 (http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-30.htm)That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 (http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-31.htm)But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 (http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-32.htm)Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

If take communion in an an unworthy manner you cauld die from it.

Mister D
06-05-2013, 12:38 PM
It's actually much clearer in context.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+11&version=NIV

roadmaster
06-05-2013, 12:51 PM
I have never attended a Church that didn't do this once a year. Most Christian Churches do this.

Mister D
06-05-2013, 01:06 PM
I have never attended a Church that didn't do this once a year. Most Christian Churches do this.

Once a year!? Wow. I did it every week for 14-15 years. My mom's study group does it too every Sunday.

Micketto
06-05-2013, 01:44 PM
Once a year!? Wow. I did it every week for 14-15 years. My mom's study group does it too every Sunday.

Baptist here.
We did it monthly growing up... and only during Sunday evening services. Never have I been anywhere that did it more often.

The reason it was evenings is because the Baptist denomination, or Assemblies of God, etc.... a lot of who now call themselves "nondenominational" churches.... are more of a "seeker" service in the mornings. A service for people looking for a church, or new to God in general. They avoid the deeper traditions and Bible-thumping they always get accused of.... so people will feel more comfortable being there.

Sunday evenings (or Wednesdays) are more of a "believer's" service... where they will get deeper into the Bible, and things like Communion, etc.

Mister D
06-05-2013, 01:49 PM
Baptist here.
We did it monthly growing up... and only during Sunday evening services. Never have I been anywhere that did it more often.

The reason it was evenings is because the Baptist denomination, or Assemblies of God, etc.... a lot of who now call themselves "nondenominational" churches.... are more of a "seeker" service in the mornings. A service for people looking for a church, or new to God in general. They avoid the deeper traditions and Bible-thumping they always get accused of.... so people will feel more comfortable being there.

Sunday evenings (or Wednesdays) are more of a "believer's" service... where they will get deeper into the Bible, and things like Communion, etc.

Interesting. Wikipedia tells me there are a few Baptists in my state but I have never seen a Baptist service or even a Baptist church. Catholics make up the largest single Christian sect in NJ. I have a few Prostestant churches in my neighborhood but I don't think I have ever been inside one. I used to play football as a kid on the lawn of the local Presbyterian church though. :grin:

Micketto
06-05-2013, 02:47 PM
Interesting. Wikipedia tells me there are a few Baptists in my state but I have never seen a Baptist service or even a Baptist church. Catholics make up the largest single Christian sect in NJ. I have a few Prostestant churches in my neighborhood but I don't think I have ever been inside one. I used to play football as a kid on the lawn of the local Presbyterian church though. :grin:

Regional. NJ with it's high Italian population, or areas with high polish populations, etc.... will always have more Catholic churches.

Playing football on the lawn is close!
At least as close as some of those here who walked by a college once and think they're all smart now ;)

roadmaster
06-05-2013, 02:51 PM
Well I have attended Holiness, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, here in the south.:laugh: Actually like all of them that preach the Word. My favorite is Wed nights when I can attend.

Mister D
06-05-2013, 02:51 PM
Regional. NJ with it's high Italian population, or areas with high polish populations, etc.... will always have more Catholic churches.

Playing football on the lawn is close!
At least as close as some of those here who walked by a college once and think they're all smart now ;)

:grin:

Yeah, lots of Italians, Irish, and Poles. I think it changes a bit out west and south though. I'm close to NYC.

roadmaster
06-05-2013, 02:53 PM
NJ with it's high Italian population, or areas with high polish populations, etc.... will always have more Catholic churches.
Yes on my husbands side they are Italian Catholics up north in Mass.

roadmaster
06-05-2013, 02:54 PM
:grin:

Yeah, lots of Italians, Irish, and Poles. I think it changes a bit out west and south though. I'm close to NYC.

yall talk funny.

Mister D
06-05-2013, 02:57 PM
yall talk funny.

No one says "y'all" except black people around here. I laughed when I heard about Biden (from Scranton PA!) and his "they'll put y'all back in chains" minstrel act. :laugh:

roadmaster
06-05-2013, 03:21 PM
No one says "y'all" except black people around here. I laughed when I heard about Biden (from Scranton PA!) and his "they'll put y'all back in chains" minstrel act. :laugh:LOL well it's also the high pitched voices. When they call I can hear them from across the room.:grin:

Micketto
06-05-2013, 03:56 PM
No one says "y'all" except black people around here. I laughed when I heard about Biden (from Scranton PA!) and his "they'll put y'all back in chains" minstrel act. :laugh:

Lol that was comedy gold. All he needed was blackface.

Imagine a Repub saying that..... the outrage that would have ensued.