'Outrageous': Verizon reportedly forced to turn over customers' phone records

[Chris]

The police state is stepping up its game...


The U.S. government has obtained a top secret court order that requires Verizon to turn over the telephone records of millions of Americans to the National Security Agency on an "ongoing daily basis," the UK-based Guardian newspaper reported.

The four-page order, which The Guardian published on its website Wednesday, requires the communications giant to turn over "originating and terminating" telephone numbers as well as the location, time and duration of the calls.

If genuine, the order gives the NSA blanket access to the records of millions of Verizon customers' domestic and foreign phone calls made between April 25, when the order was signed, and July 19, when it expires.

While the report infuriated people across the country -- former Vice President Al Gore called the idea "obscenely outrageous" -- a senior official in the Obama administration defended the idea of such an order early Thursday....

@ 'Outrageous': Verizon reportedly forced to turn over customers' phone records (http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/06/politics/nsa-verizon-records/?hpt=hp_t1)

[zelmo1234]

Must find those that are not true believers and punish them!

[jillian]

Must find those that are not true believers and punish them!

we told you when bush got rid of the warrant requirement, no president was going to give up that kind of power.

but the neocons were all for it when their guy was in power...

FROM 2005


WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials.
Under a presidential order signed in 2002, the intelligence agency has monitored the international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States without warrants over the past three years in an effort to track possible "dirty numbers" linked to Al Qaeda, the officials said. The agency, they said, still seeks warrants to monitor entirely domestic communications.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

but please, continue to act surprised.

[Chris]

we told you when bush got rid of the warrant requirement, no president was going to give up that kind of power.

but the neocons were all for it when their guy was in power...

FROM 2005



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

but please, continue to act surprised.

Good to see you were against this sort of intrusion by government into our privacy under Bush then and now under Obama.

Can I ask who you think is surprised?

[Taxcutter]

The KGB could only have wished for such power amplified by today's technology.

[jillian]

Good to see you were against this sort of intrusion by government into our privacy under Bush then and now under Obama.

Can I ask who you think is surprised?

i was against it then.

i'm against it now.

but i remember the bush apologists saying it was just fine b/c it would get those terrorists. and it was their guy doing it.

the FISA courts should still be in place. no surveillance program should be unsupervised.

it's really that simple.

but... bush started this stuff back in 2004/2005... and the fact that anyone is whining five years into this president's tenure, as if it's some kind of scandal, is pretty bizarre

[Chris]

i was against it then.

i'm against it now.

but i remember the bush apologists saying it was just fine b/c it would get those terrorists. and it was their guy doing it.

the FISA courts should still be in place. no surveillance program should be unsupervised.

it's really that simple.

but... bush started this stuff back in 2004/2005... and the fact that anyone is whining five years into this president's tenure, as if it's some kind of scandal, is pretty bizarre

That is what I applauded you for, for being against both, yet in the other thread you attack me for misreading you. That's confusing.

It was scandalous then and it's scandalous now.

[Mainecoons]

Jillian, a relative newcomer to this group, keeps confusing most of us with neocons and Bush supporters when in fact only a few are. Most of us long since realized Bush was one of Jillian's own, a statist, a lover of big government and liberal programs like No Child (authored with Ted Kennedy) and prescription drug, yet another unconstitutional intrusion by the Federal government into health care. Like Lyndon Johnson, he was a warmonger as well.

It is no accidental coincidence, the resemblance of Bush's disastrous presidency to that of Lyndon Johnson.

When you get right down to it, the posting here of both Jillian and Marie could be described as constant opinion bereft of and in search of facts. Finding and posting little or none to support their opinions, they routinely resort to making it up.

:grin:

[Mainecoons]

And once again, BTW, it is the foreign press who are outing our fascist, runaway Federal government.

Where are the American "journalists?" Too busy running cover for Barack Obama, that's where.

[patrickt]

But, President Obama knows where his "enemies" are. They aren't in Iran or North Korea, oh, no. They're in the U.S. That's why he explicitly authorizes local surveillance.

[Mainecoons]

Yup, we have President Richard Milhous Obama here. :grin:

[jillian]

Yup, we have President Richard Milhous Obama here. :grin:

surely you're not saying that when bush implemented the program he was acting any better?

presidents don't give up powers taken by their predecessors

[Chris]

surely you're not saying that when bush implemented the program he was acting any better?

presidents don't give up powers taken by their predecessors

No one's saying that, jillian. You keep going on about "we told you" when you're not "we" and we are not "you". We were criticizing Bush just as we criticize Obama. They're both neocons. There's really no difference.

[jillian]

No one's saying that, jillian. You keep going on about "we told you" when you're not "we" and we are not "you". We were criticizing Bush just as we criticize Obama. They're both neocons. There's really no difference.

but we did...

and it's boring to hear about how this president is somehow richard nixon without discussing how he inherited this policy.

it's dishonest.

[Chris]

but we did...

and it's boring to hear about how this president is somehow richard nixon without discussing how he inherited this policy.

it's dishonest.

Again, there is no "we" in you.

Obama is Nixon for the very reason he has inherited and embraced Nixon's policy. Ditto Bish's.

Your failure to understand that doesn't make it dishonest.

[Mainecoons]

surely you're not saying that when bush implemented the program he was acting any better?

presidents don't give up powers taken by their predecessors

No genius, I'm talking about Nixon's and Obama's obsession with enemies and using the government to "get" them.

I should have known better than to think you knew this about Nixon. I was there, in D.C., watching it unfold personally.

[Chris]

No genius, I'm talking about Nixon's and Obama's obsession with enemies and using the government to "get" them.

I should have known better than to think you knew this about Nixon. I was there, in D.C., watching it unfold personally.

Listen to the point where Will raises Nixon and reads from the impeachment articles:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1ijYF2LnGQ

[truthmatters]

how does this differ from when Bush did it?

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy


under Bush they LISTENED to the phone calls

[Common]

The Great Ron and Rand Paul the champions of personal freedom and privacy, neither of them of utter a single syllable about the greatest threat to personal freedom and privacy ever created THE CELLPHONE. Dont worry bout drones or surviellance worry bout that cellphone you have superglued to your mouth, they can track you in the toilet and making piggynasty. Its a scourge

[Chris]

how does this differ from when Bush did it?

Here we go again...read the thread will ya.

[Chris]

The Great Ron and Rand Paul the champions of personal freedom and privacy, neither of them of utter a single syllable about the greatest threat to personal freedom and privacy ever created THE CELLPHONE. Dont worry bout drones or surviellance worry bout that cellphone you have superglued to your mouth, they can track you in the toilet and making piggynasty. Its a scourge

Arguing from unknowns?

[Mainecoons]

Even more shameful is that the foreign press were the ones to out the latest flagrant abuse and scandal from the Obama regime.

[patrickt]

Echelon is the word I've been looking for. It was the NSA-led bugging done some years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Does Truthdoesntmatter always post two, three, four, or five posts in a desperate effort to never respond to the topic of the thread? Does Jillian immediately go for personal attacks in an effort to avoid the topic of the thread?

[Mainecoons]

I love this one--welcome to the Bush/Obama White House, they're spying on us.

No shit, Sherlock!

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/welcome-to-the-bush-obama-white-house-they-re-spying-on-us-20130606

[Private Pickle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy


under Bush they LISTENED to the phone calls
Didn't you vote for "change"? Look how that turned out for you...

[BrianDamage]

we told you when bush got rid of the warrant requirement, no president was going to give up that kind of power.

The NSA had a warrant, this time.

[BrianDamage]

Jillian, a relative newcomer to this group, keeps confusing most of us with neocons and Bush supporters when in fact only a few are. Most of us long since realized Bush was one of Jillian's own, a statist, a lover of big government and liberal programs like No Child (authored with Ted Kennedy) and prescription drug, yet another unconstitutional intrusion by the Federal government into health care. Like Lyndon Johnson, he was a warmonger as well.

It is no accidental coincidence, the resemblance of Bush's disastrous presidency to that of Lyndon Johnson.

When you get right down to it, the posting here of both Jillian and Marie could be described as constant opinion bereft of and in search of facts. Finding and posting little or none to support their opinions, they routinely resort to making it up.

:grin:

Were you maintaining this when Bush was POTUS? Or was it only after he fell from grace that this realization came upon you?

[Captain Obvious]

The only constant is that only a handful of concerned citizens will be outraged. The majority will either ignore it because they would rather play with their toys than worry about privacy or they will say "who cares if someone is checking up on my emails from my wife telling me to pick up milk on the way home".

[Chris]

Were you maintaining this when Bush was POTUS? Or was it only after he fell from grace that this realization came upon you?

During.

Amazing, another scandal in the WH and here are liberals playing gotcha games.

[Chris]

The only constant is that only a handful of concerned citizens will be outraged. The majority will either ignore it because they would rather play with their toys than worry about privacy or they will say "who cares if someone is checking up on my emails from my wife telling me to pick up milk on the way home".

And the liberals will distract with fingers pointed everywhere else.

[Chris]

The Great Ron and Rand Paul the champions of personal freedom and privacy, neither of them of utter a single syllable about the greatest threat to personal freedom and privacy ever created THE CELLPHONE. Dont worry bout drones or surviellance worry bout that cellphone you have superglued to your mouth, they can track you in the toilet and making piggynasty. Its a scourge

From @ FISA Reminder: Rand Paul and Ron Wyden Warned You (http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/06/fisa-reminder-rand-paul-and-ron-wyden-wa)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ALN7LTeLxtI#!

[Chris]

NSA's Verizon surveillance: how the White House tramples our constitution (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/07/nsa-verizon-surveillance-constitution), written by Rand Paul:


In December 2007, then-Senator Barack Obama joined then-Senator Chris Dodd in threatening to filibuster the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (Fisa). Senator Obama opposed provisions granting retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that shared private client information with the government. His office released a statement:


"Granting such immunity undermines the constitutional protections Americans trust the Congress to protect. Senator Obama supports a filibuster of this bill …"

Senator Obama was right. Had I been in the Senate, I would've voted with him. I've even filibustered myself over civil liberties issues I believe are important.

Later, supporting an amendment that he believed repealed retroactive immunity from Fisa, Senator Obama said in February 2008:


"We can give our intelligence and law enforcement community the powers they need to track down and take out terrorists without undermining our commitment to the rule of law, or our basic rights and liberties."

Senator Obama in 2007 was rightly concerned that telecommunications companies might get away with sharing clients' private information without legal scrutiny. This week, we learned that the president's National Security Agency compelled Verizon to hand over all of its client data records.

Senator Obama in 2008 wanted to track potential terrorist activity "without undermining our commitment to the rule of law, or our basic rights and liberties". Today, President Obama undermines the rule of law, basic rights and core liberties – all in the name of tracking terrorists.

There is always a balance between security and liberty and the American tradition has long been to err on the side of liberty. America's founders feared a government powerful enough to commit unreasonable searches and seizures and crafted a constitution designed to protect citizens' privacy.

Under this administration, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) has targeted political dissidents, the Department of Justice has seized reporters' phone records, and now we've learned the NSA seized an unlimited amount of Verizon's client data. Just when you think it can't get any worse under this president, it does. This is an all-out assault on the constitution. These actions are unacceptable under any president, Democrat or Republican.

I can remember well a Senator Obama who joined the Democratic chorus against the warrantless wiretapping of the Bush administration. Now, that chorus has gone mute. The Guardian's Glenn Greenwald has noted what he sees as "a defining attribute of the Obama legacy: the transformation of what was until recently a symbol of rightwing radicalism – warrantless eavesdropping – into meekly accepted bipartisan consensus."

Not every Republican or Democrat is part of that consensus. When the Senate rushed through a last-minute extension of the Fisa Amendments Act over the holidays late last year, Senator Mike Lee (Republican, Utah) and I offered an amendment requiring stronger protections on business records that would've prohibited precisely the kind of data-mining the Verizon case has revealed. Senator Ron Wyden (Democrat, Oregon) introduced an amendment to require estimates from intelligence agencies of how many Americans were being surveilled. Both these measures were voted down.

Just last month, I introduced the Fourth Amendment Preservation and Protection Act, which if enacted would've protected Americans from exactly the kind of abuses we've seen recently. It was also voted down.

On Thursday, I announced my Fourth Amendment Restoration Act of 2013, which ensures that no government agency can search the phone records of Americans without a warrant based on probable cause. We shall see how many join me in supporting a part of the Bill of Rights that everyone in Congress already took an oath to uphold.

If the president and Congress would simply obey the fourth amendment, this new shocking revelation that the government is now spying on citizens' phone data en masse would never have happened. That I have to keep reintroducing the fourth amendment – and that a majority of senators keep voting against it – is a good reflection of the arrogance that dominates Washington.

During my filibuster, I quoted Glenn Greenwald, who wrote:


"There is a theoretical framework being built that posits that the US government has unlimited power. When it comes to any kind of threats it perceives, it makes the judgment to take whatever action against them that it warrants without any constraints or limitations of any kind."

If the seizure and surveillance of Americans' phone records – across the board and with little to no discrimination – is now considered a legitimate security precaution, there is literally no protection of any kind guaranteed anymore to American citizens. In their actions, more outrageous and numerous by the day, this administration continues to treat the US constitution as a dead letter.

Senator Obama said of President Bush and Fisa in 2008:


"We must reaffirm that no one in this country is above the law."

No one in America should be above the law. Including this president.

[Ransom]

Were you maintaining this when Bush was POTUS? Or was it only after he fell from grace that this realization came upon you?

No you and nic were "maintaining this" BrainDamage along with @jillian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=719)

While Bush was President, you two harped about Gitmo, detainee policies, the wars, the Patriot Act, the Surveillance act, drone programs, phone records, terror attacks, our reputation abroad....and when Obama expands and even extends these polices.....you both deafen us with your silence.

These deflections to Bush are hypocritical and expected. the President you two circus clowns elected has turned out to be exactly what you pretended to be offended about for so long. You're both exposed, totally, your arguments are utter jokes.

Is there anyone in your respective households(could be the same household for all I know, equally clueless and sheepish) who would like to have an intelligent conversation? An adult live there by any chance?