Thousands Gather to Protest Putin

[Conley]

The crowd overflowed the square where it was held, forcing stragglers to climb trees or watch from the opposite riverbank, and organizers repeatedly cleared a footbridge out of fear it would collapse. It was the largest anti-Kremlin protest since the early 1990s.The crowd united liberals, nationalists and Communists, a group best described as the urban middle class, so digitally connected that some were broadcasting the rally live using iPads held over their heads. The police estimated the crowd at 25,000 while organizers put the figure much higher, at 40,000 or more.The rally was a significant moment in Russia’s political life, suggesting that the authorities have lost the power to control the national agenda. The event was too large to be edited out of the evening news, which does not report criticism of Mr. Putin, and was accompanied by smaller demonstrations dozens of other cities, including St. Petersburg.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/world/europe/thousands-protest-in-moscow-russia-in-defiance-of-putin.html

Those are some tough Russians, willing to fight the weather and Putin's forces. Momentum seems to be growing in the resistance and Putin can't keep it out of the news now. This is confirmation of what we thought in terms of not being able to get an accurate read on the people's opinion of Putin.

[MMC]

It's not the people I was looking at.....myself, was more interested in how the Kremlin was looking at this. :studying:

[Mister D]

Even the low estimate of 25K is still a huge crowd.

[Conley]

Even the low estimate of 25K is still a huge crowd.

Absolutely. It's gigantic. Keep in mind what those people are likely risking being a part of it. There are no doubt thousands more who feel the same but are not willing to risk it.

[Mister D]

Absolutely. It's gigantic. Keep in mind what those people are likely risking being a part of it. There are no doubt thousands more who feel the same but are not willing to risk it.

No doubt. It's interesting how the radicals are joining together in the protests.

[MMC]

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-protests-start-far-east-police-alert-094211322.html

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of people in Moscow and thousands more in cities across Russia demanded an end to Vladimir Putin's rule and a rerun of a parliamentary election on Saturday in the biggest opposition protests since he rose to power 12 years ago.
Potesters waved banners such as "The rats should go!" and "Swindlers and thieves - give us our elections back!" in cities from the Pacific port of Vladivostok in the east to Kaliningrad in the west, nearly 7,400 km (4,600 miles) away.
But the biggest protest by far was in Moscow, where riot police were out in force but just watched as protesters waving flags and shouting "Putin is a thief!" staged the opposition's biggest protest rally since the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.

"Today 60,000, maybe 100,000 people, have come to this rally," former prime minister Mikhail Kasyanov said in a speech to a huge crowd packed into Bolotnaya Square across the Moscow River from the Kremlin.
"This means today is the beginning of the end for these thieving authorities," said Kasyanov, who now leads an opposition movement which was barred from the election.

Vladimir Ryzhkov, an opposition leader, read out a list of demands including annulling the election and holding a new one, registering opposition parties, dismissing the election commission head and freeing people the protesters consider political prisoners.
"Russia has changed today -- the future has changed," he said, urging demonstrators to come out for new protests on December 24. The crowd chanted, "We'll be back!"

But Konstantin Kosachyov, a United Russia lawmaker authorized to speak on behalf of the Kremlin, ruled out negotiations on the organizers' demands and said: "With all respect for the people who came out to protest, they are not a political party."

At least 100 trucks of riot police were parked near the Kremlin and columns of police trucks drove around the capital. Police put the number of protesters at around 25,000, and organizers said it was up to 150,000.....snip~

All the social networks were lit-up to.....big distiction in numbers. Someone should know the actual difference in such a size. One can see the Kremlins Stance and they will back Putin. This does not look good for them. What, they didnt know anything about the Occupiers here in the US.....right? Forgot all about the Arab Spring.....huh? Just ignored the Riots and Protests in the UK.....right?

I mean I know how everybody is talking about all these uprisings.....but if the Hard-Line in Russia is thinking it isnt going to touch them then they have another thing coming. IMO Russia is the paper-tiger.

Another point of view is that all of these Countries were holding what was called Democratic Elections.....already! Yet in those Countries that are in the Mid-East that have what is called the Democratic process to Elections that are Controlled by governments with alliances to the west, their people are rising up and protesting those Democratic Elections and their versions of Democracy. But the World of Media does not want to focus so much on those in the West.

If the Kremlin gives into putting the protests down. Then Russia will be split apart from within again. Then I do not see how they could even hold a Seat On the UN Security Counsel anymore. Especially if their Military has rebel leaders already to go. It is clear there is a Former prime minister who is out and about and has not been locked-up. Which means he must have some sort of Protection against Putin. :studying:

[MMC]

http://news.yahoo.com/russias-stunning-protests-end-hint-change-181105176.html
AP – 4 hrs ago.....

MOSCOW (AP) — Tens of thousands of people held the largest anti-government protests that post-Soviet Russia has ever seen to criticize electoral fraud and demand an end to Vladimir Putin's rule. Police showed surprising restraint and state-controlled TV gave the nationwide demonstrations unexpected airtime, but there is no indication the opposition is strong enough to push for real change from the prime minister or his ruling party.

The most dramatic of Saturday's protests saw a vast crowd jam an expansive Moscow square and adjacent streets, packed so tight that some demonstrators stood on others' toes. Although police estimated the crowd at 30,000, aerial photographs suggested far more, and protest organizers made claims ranging from 40,000 to 100,000 or more.

Elsewhere in Russia, some 7,000 protesters assembled in St. Petersburg, and demonstrations ranging from a few hundred people to a thousand took place in more than 60 other cities. Police reported only about 100 arrests nationwide, a notably low number for a force that characteristically quick and harsh action against opposition gatherings.

Meanwhile, though United Russia may be shaken by the last week's events, it still can count on a large cadre of supporters. The head of its youth wing, Timur Prokopenko, was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying he had nearly 170,000 activists "who are ready at moment to go to rallies" in support of the government.

Saturday's Moscow protest was notable not only for its size, but also for attracting political forces from across the spectrum — from liberals to communists to extreme nationalists.

"We will fight to the end, to the cancellation of this shameful, false election," said Grigory Yavlinsky, leader of the liberal Yabloko party that failed to make it to parliament in last Sunday's vote. "We are launching a campaign to drive Putin from power."

The organizers sought to send a message of unity, urging the crowd to respect the diversity of speakers' views. At one point, the audience booed a military veteran when he called for the restoration of the Soviet Union, but chanted slogans of support when he denounced the vote-rigging and said the army was with people.
"The army is with us, 80 percent of officers hate the defense minister," retired Maj.-Gen. Yevgeny Kopyshev shouted.
The organizers also praised police for helping maintain order, as demonstrators chanted "Police with people!"

The rally demanded the cancellation of the election results, the punishment for officials responsible for vote-rigging, registration of the opposition parties that were denied it, liberalization of the electoral law and holding new elections. The organizers urged protesters to brace for another rally in two weeks.

Oleg Orlov, the head of Memorial rights group, said the rally turned a new page in history.
"We are now changing the nation's history to the better," Orlov said. "We will force the government to realize that they will have to pay a price for rigging the vote, and the price is their legitimacy.".....snip~


:smileinbox: .....Pop goes the Weasel!!!!! I don't think Russia will be able to do anything about Syria or Iran now! :studying:

[MMC]

Seems Putin has his supporters too and they say they can mobilize 170k at any time. Yet this morning there is nothing like that going on at all. :undecided:

[Conley]

What do you mean by Russia being a paper tiger?

I think this unrest is just the start but I don't think they're anywhere near a civil war or being split in two.

[MMC]

I don't think it will go away.....already there are opposition Leaders. Once the strife breaks out. I think it take Russia out of the Box. Especially if the Military is split.

[Mister D]

These certainly don't look like liberal uprisings and I doubt any opposition leader could be anything but a temporary figurehead. The far right and left are both heavily involved along with liberals.

[MMC]

Kasyanov is a Former Prime Minister.....and head of One of the Opposition parties. Then there is that Memorial movement.

[Mister D]

Kasyanov is a Former Prime Minister.....and head of One of the Opposition parties. Then there is that Memorial movement.

Seems like a very fluid and ideologically disorganized opposition.

[MMC]

Seems like a very fluid and ideologically disorganized opposition.

Yeah he said something about being able to sustain the protests. Or keep it going with energy. otherwise it might fizzle out. After watching some news coverage there are still a lot of people that support the Government.

[Mister D]

Yeah he said something about being able to sustain the protests. Or keep it going with energy. otherwise it might fizzle out. After watching some news coverage there are still a lot of people that support the Government.

I find it hard to believe that Putin doesn't have many supporters. On the other hand, there has probably always been significant opposition to him. They just kept a lid on it. I remember a few years ago when he cracked down on the nationalist Right.

[MMC]

Well after I said what I did earlier. Russia reinterated that they will not tolerate any intervention with Syria. Hopefully this means they will put up a screen. if NATO ries to Put a safety zone in Syria for those Rebels which again are infiltrated by the Muslim brotherhood. In Response to France. On one hand I am glad someone has spoken out and told the French just like it is. Now lets see the French go and engage Putin. I definetly would like to watch the French get their azz kicked nice and hard this time. Then maybe we can have some less blowhard out of the EU stirring shit up. That they cannot back-up themselves.

[Mister D]

France doesn't have the capability to make a significant effort that far from home. That said, I'm not all that impressed with Russia's current military machine judging from the actions in Georgia. I'm not sure if Russia was concealing their real capabilities and best troops/equipment. I suppose it's possible but France, IMO, has a better military in terms of training, professionalism, and equipment.

[MMC]

I don't think the French Mirage has a Chance against the Russian Mig! Did Russia use an Air War against Georgia?

[Mister D]

I don't think the French Mirage has a Chance against the Russian Mig! Did Russia use an Air War against Georgia?

Not sure. I'd imagine it was a combined arms operation. What isn't these days at least on that level?

[MMC]

Not sure. I'd imagine it was a combined arms operation. What isn't these days at least on that level?


I never heard they used Air tho.....maybe some choppers. I thought it was mainly ground. Plus the French Mirage is limited on how it can climb so it is no match for the Russian Mig!

[Mister D]

I never heard they used Air tho.....maybe some choppers. I thought it was mainly ground. Plus the French Mirage is limited on how it can climb so it is no match for the Russian Mig!

Any attempt to secure an area will be primarily a ground operation. Not sure of the fighter stats.