These are moments that stay with us forever - From Gabrielle Giffords & Roxanna Green

[Cigar]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/970210_268310849973422_868795098_n.jpg

Touching

[Cigar]

How Soon we forget ...............

http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/77a0d80cec8dba13340f6a7067000333.jpg

Newtown has marked the passage of six months since the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School with a moment of silence.

The sisters of slain teacher Victoria Soto asked for a 26-second moment of silence at the ceremony Friday to honor the 20 children and six adults killed at the school on Dec. 14.

A lone gunman carried out the massacre after killing his mother inside their Newtown home, and he committed suicide as police arrived.

The remembrance event in Newtown is doubling as a call to action on gun control. Elected officials and families of the victims have gathered for the reading of thousands of names of gun violence victims at an event that is expected to take 12 hours.

http://news.yahoo.com/moment-silence-marks-6-months-since-newtown-135427419.html

[TheInternet]

So, do you have policy proposals you'd like to discuss? What are they specifically, and how do you think they would curb gun violence?

[Cigar]

Background-Checks on Individuals on No-Fly List :wink:

[TheInternet]

You are afraid of debating policies, bc you know your position will fall apart under scrutiny.

[zelmo1234]

Background-Checks on Individuals on No-Fly List :wink:

I really think that you should write your democratic congress people and Senators, because you could have had background checks if they would not have poisoned the water with conditions that they knew republicans would not vote for!

Shame really! The DNC chose to play politics on the one issue that might have saved a few lives.

[TheInternet]

I really think that you should write your democratic congress people and Senators, because you could have had background checks if they would not have poisoned the water with conditions that they knew republicans would not vote for!

Shame really! The DNC chose to play politics on the one issue that might have saved a few lives.

Unlikely. Even if a few lives were saved, it'd be of those who chose to engage in a life of crime. I'll keep my rights, thanks.

[jillian]

I really think that you should write your democratic congress people and Senators, because you could have had background checks if they would not have poisoned the water with conditions that they knew republicans would not vote for!

Shame really! The DNC chose to play politics on the one issue that might have saved a few lives.

you know that's nonsense, right?

[jillian]

Unlikely. Even if a few lives were saved, it'd be of those who chose to engage in a life of crime. I'll keep my rights, thanks.

why do you think you have the right not to be background checked. heller certainly doesn't say that

[TheInternet]

why do you think you have the right not to be background checked. heller certainly doesn't say that

Heller doesn't specify one way the other. Lack of a supreme court ruling on a matter does not make it ok.

It's an unreasonable requirement put on law abiding gun owners.

Further, it fixes a problem that doesn't exist.

[CRUE CAB]

What happend in New Town that my guns had anything to do with?

[Cigar]

Swing and a miss

http://www.captainsblog.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/strike-out1.jpg

[Mister D]

We don't have a gun problem in the US. We have a cultural problem in communities of color.

[bladimz]

you know that's nonsense, right?So much nonsense!

[bladimz]

Heller doesn't specify one way the other. Lack of a supreme court ruling on a matter does not make it ok.

It's an unreasonable requirement put on law abiding gun owners.

Further, it fixes a problem that doesn't exist.How would background checks affect our law-abiding gun-owners? What additional freedoms would be lost?

Is it not safe to assume that a more extensive background checks program might have saved Giffords a little aggravation and others their lives?

[Mister D]

How would background checks affect our law-abiding gun-owners? What additional freedoms would be lost?

Is it not safe to assume that a more extensive background checks program might have saved Giffords a little aggravation and others their lives?

No.

[Cigar]

How would background checks affect our law-abiding gun-owners? What additional freedoms would be lost?

Is it not safe to assume that a more extensive background checks program might have saved Giffords a little aggravation and others their lives?

Everyone on this Forum had a Background-Check if they have a Credit Card.

... it's now common place to have Background-Checks just to Work; don't see any long lines against that

[Mister D]

Everyone on this Forum had a Background-Checks if they have a Credit Card.

... it's now common place to have Background-Checks just to Work; don't see any long lines against that

Backgrounds are the norm when buying a gun. Remember? Not knowing that is how you were caught lying about owning guns.

[Cigar]

Backgrounds are the norm when buying a gun. Remember? Not knowing that is how you were caught lying about owning guns.

NOT Universally

[roadmaster]

Backgrounds are the norm when buying a gun. Remember? Not knowing that is how you were caught lying about owning guns.

Except for the criminals that will just buy them on the streets.

[Mister D]

NOT Universally

Now you know. :wink: In any case, it's called the gun show loop hole for a reason. Furthermore, even at gun shows background checks are common.

[Mister D]

Except for the criminals that will just buy them on the streets.

Right. It never ceases to amaze me how misinformed your average non-gun owner is.

[zelmo1234]

you know that's nonsense, right?

You have some proof that putting the prases psycological conditions verses severe mental illnes, and keep the amendment train open for 180days. allowing amendments to be added with a simple majority in the Senate did not kill the bill????

You see the beill went down to bi partisen decent!

If they had just put in background checks for all guns pubilc guns sales it would ahve sailed though both houses. YOu know that I am sure, but that did not allow for gun confiscations and that is what the left is looking for!

[Cigar]

Now you know. :wink: In any case, it's called the gun show loop hole for a reason. Furthermore, even at gun shows background checks are common.

There's a HUGE difference between the word "Common" and "Mandatory".

Why would any Law Abiding Citizen be against keep Guns out of the hands of Terrorist who are register on the No-Fly List?

[Mister D]

There's a HUGE difference between the word "Common" and "Mandatory".

Why would any Law Abiding Citizen be against keep Guns out of the hands of Terrorist who are register on the No-Fly List?

Yet all these terrorists don't appear to be buying guns at gun shows. Now why is that, Cigar? Better still, nothign yuo propose would have prevented the mass murders we have seen in recent years let alone the bloodbath in Chicago you routinely ignore for ideological and racial reasons.

[Mister D]

Again, we don't have a gun problem in the US. We have a cultural problem in the communities of color. Of course, those images of inner city mayhem are not exploited for political purposes. One wonders why...

[bladimz]

Now you know. :wink: In any case, it's called the gun show loop hole for a reason. Furthermore, even at gun shows background checks are common.
C'mon D. You're leaving something out here...
"even at gun shows background checks are common"; except for...

http://www.pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/when-youre-at-a-restaurant-and-mother-sits-down-next-to-you-with-her-screaming-baby.gif

[Mister D]

C'mon D. You're leaving something out here...
"even at gun shows background checks are common"; except for...

http://www.pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/when-youre-at-a-restaurant-and-mother-sits-down-next-to-you-with-her-screaming-baby.gif

I don't know what you're trying to say, Blad.

[roadmaster]

C'mon D. You're leaving something out here...
"even at gun shows background checks are common"; except for...

http://www.pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/when-youre-at-a-restaurant-and-mother-sits-down-next-to-you-with-her-screaming-baby.gif

And you are leaving out the ones who buy them on the streets. Gun free zones or cities are the worst because many won't break the law and have one to counter the person breaking the law.

[Mister D]

This country is saturated with firearms yet the vast majority of gun violence occurs among specific populations. This is all symbolism with no substance. You guys can't even bring yourselves to address the real problem.

[bladimz]

Better still, nothign yuo propose would have prevented the mass murders we have seen in recent years let alone the bloodbath in Chicago you routinely ignore for ideological and racial reasons.The honest way to discuss this is not to look back and definitively say what would have been prevented. (I believe that the Giffords attack could have been avoided or dimished)... The honest and real way is to consider what murderous scenarios might be avoided through background checks.

Think forward, not backward.

[Cigar]

Yet all these terrorists don't appear to be buying guns at gun shows. Now why is that, Cigar? Better still, nothign yuo propose would have prevented the mass murders we have seen in recent years let alone the bloodbath in Chicago you routinely ignore for ideological and racial reasons.

How do you know that?

Not all do background checks.

[Cigar]

The honest way to discuss this is not to look back and definitively say what would have been prevented. (I believe that the Giffords attack could have been avoided or dimished)... The honest and real way is to consider what murderous scenarios might be avoided through background checks.

Think forward, not backward.

... and to think, they're usually really good at looking backwards.

[Mister D]

The honest way to discuss this is not to look back and definitively say what would have been prevented. (I believe that the Giffords attack could have been avoided or dimished)... The honest and real way is to consider what murderous scenarios might be avoided through background checks.

Think forward, not backward.

Of course you don't want to look back to see if these proposals would actually have a damn bit of difference. That's because they wouldn't have. This is emotionalism.

2961


We don't have a gun problem. We have a cultural problem in communities of color. If you are uncomfortable with that that's fine. Just do us a favor and stop talking about gun control. It's pointless.

[bladimz]

This country is saturated with firearms yet the vast majority of gun violence occurs among specific populations. This is all symbolism with no substance. You guys can't even bring yourselves to address the real problem.
Maybe some historical background should be included in a discussion of the "real problem".

[Mister D]

How do you know that?

Not all do background checks.

How do I know what, Cigar?

[Mister D]

Maybe some historical background should be included in a discussion of the "real problem".

It's irrelevant. Deal with the real problem. Leave the rest of us alone.

[roadmaster]

... and to think, they're usually really good at looking backwards.

How many that got shot in Chicago the weekend bought these guns legal? May never know, they have yet to be caught but we have cameras to catch the bombers. Do you think cameras will all of a sudden appear if the place got some bombs? Think about it.

[bladimz]

The gun control conversation is not going away any time soon. An unfortunate fact. So you might as well accept that.

You have your opinions, D and you're welcome to them. We do have an inner-city problem, i agree. But that's a separate conversation altogether.

[Cigar]

It's irrelevant. Deal with the real problem. Leave the rest of us alone.

http://thestrategyguysite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/football-punt1.png

[Mister D]

http://thestrategyguysite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/football-punt1.png

:huh:

[Mister D]

The gun control conversation is not going away any time soon. An unfortunate fact. So you might as well accept that.

You have your opinions, and welcome to them. We do have an inner-city problem, i agree. But that's a separate conversation altogether.

No, it's the conversation we should be having. We do not have a gun probem in the US. Minus the violence of blacks and browns we'd have a much lower rate of gun violence. You can accept that abd discuss the topic rationally. Or you can ignore that and continue to demand action on a non-existent problem.

[bladimz]

It's irrelevant. Deal with the real problem. Leave the rest of us alone.Not sure what you mean... Leave the rest of you alone? Are you speaking for some kind of coalition?

[Mister D]

How many that got shot in Chicago the weekend bought these guns legal? May never know, they have yet to be caught but we have cameras to catch the bombers. Do you think cameras will all of a sudden appear if the place got some bombs? Think about it.

Again, the images of inner city mayhem don't "stay with us". No one crying about gun violence gives a shit. Why is that?

[Mister D]

Not sure what you mean... Leave the rest of you alone? Are you speaking for some kind of coalition?

Speaking as a law abiding gun owner and a member of a population that is not responsible for this nation's high rate of gun violence. It will be hard enough to resolve the real problem never mind the problem that doesn't exist.

[zelmo1234]

How would background checks affect our law-abiding gun-owners? What additional freedoms would be lost?

Is it not safe to assume that a more extensive background checks program might have saved Giffords a little aggravation and others their lives?

Back ground check would not have helped Giffords, because there was nothing in the shooters file, becuase scholl counslers are not allowed to report.

But it is possible that you will stop some, very few, but some crimes with background checks

However the left put in language that would allow them to do stuff like this to law abiding owners, and this is what they were actually looking for!

http://nation.foxnews.com/gun-control/2013/05/02/california-prepares-gun-confiscation

Taking guns from people that are on anti depressants, That goes a little to far! Even if someone lives in the home that is on meds.

With the left iti s about removing guns and they unfortunalty can't be trusted! They will twist the law.

If they had waied to start this in CA and NY it is likely that it woudl ahve passed the Senate, but once they received the power they could not wait to use it!

Now both NY and CA have cases heading to the Supreme court that will likely shoot down these laws. But how many guns will they take from law abiding citizens before the court rules.

Notice they did ot use the law to go after criminals because they need the gun crime! to get even tuffer laws!

[bladimz]

No, it's the conversation we should be having. We do not have a gun probem in the US. Minus the violence of blacks and browns we'd have a much lower rate of gun violence. You can accept that abd discuss the topic rationally. Or you can ignore that and continue to demand action on a non-existent problem.<Ok, mis-use of and no mandatory training of firearms is not a problem in this country.>

Of the 80 million owners, how many do you think are adequately trained and comfortable with their weapons knowledge?

[Mister D]

Ok, mis-use of and no mandatory training of firearms is not a problem in this country. Of the 80 million owners, how many do you think are adequately trained and comfortable with their weapons knowledge?

No, it really isn't. Nothing remotely like it's made out to be. Again, we do not have a gun problem in the US. We have a cultural problem in communities of color where most of that violence occurs. Are you prepared to deal with that?

[zelmo1234]

And you are leaving out the ones who buy them on the streets. Gun free zones or cities are the worst because many won't break the law and have one to counter the person breaking the law.

You forgot something. The police know who has the illegal guns in these cities and yet they do not follwup and inforce the law? Why!

The Obama administration has all but stopped prosicuting people that are caught straw purchasing guns for those that can't pass backgroudn checks??? Why?

Why did they put the psycological condition wording into the bill instead of serious mental condition?

Why did they take the teeth out of those that reported Psycological or mental illness falsely?

It was never about background check for the left? Was it!

[bladimz]

Of course i have to ask: Would you be comfortable living with a person who owns a gun and is on anti-depressants? Wouldn't that make you just a little edgy?

[zelmo1234]

The honest way to discuss this is not to look back and definitively say what would have been prevented. (I believe that the Giffords attack could have been avoided or dimished)... The honest and real way is to consider what murderous scenarios might be avoided through background checks.

Think forward, not backward.

OK lets look forward, I am for extending the instant background checks to gun shows! That is not what was proposed, and the conditions that the left wants are unaccpetable to those that are pro gun both Democrat and Republican!

Background checks in my opnion will stop some crimes and do not infringe on my rights as long as they are kept the same as they are now, but statistacly experts agree that it will be statisticly insignificant

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/345847/80-percent-cops-say-background-checks-wont-reduce-crime

Now, why is this administration not inforcing current gun laws and felony firearm legislation?

This would lock up the bad guy for an additional 5 years? why deos he want them back on the streets?

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/obama-pushes-for-gun-control-refuses-to-prosecute-gang-gun-crime-in-chicago/

And why should i give him more laws when he will not inforce the ones on the books

[roadmaster]

Of course i have to ask: Would you be comfortable living with a person who owns a gun and is on anti-depressants? Wouldn't that make you just a little edgy? Not at all. Many people have had to take anti-depressants in their life. If it be a person that had a love one die or finding out they have a major health problem. Doesn't mean they will go out and kill people.

[zelmo1234]

How do you know that?

Not all do background checks.

You are correct, but those that purchase new guns and handguns and do not go through background checks except at gun show in a few states? Have already broken the law, both purchasor and seller?

Why do I need another law, now if you want to make the penalty on the existing law more harsh.. lets talk I am most likey all for that!

[bladimz]

The Obama administration has all but stopped prosicuting people that are caught straw purchasing guns for those that can't pass backgroudn checks??? Why?
I've heard this claim from the right a number of times, but i don't think i've seen it backed up very well.

[zelmo1234]

The gun control conversation is not going away any time soon. An unfortunate fact. So you might as well accept that.

You have your opinions, D and you're welcome to them. We do have an inner-city problem, i agree. But that's a separate conversation altogether.

Ok explain this if we have a gun problem in the hands of law abiding citizens?

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/mar/23/gun-free-zones-dont-work/

So we have cities that ahve these strict gun laws and the law abiding citizens abid by them and the thugs use this to there advantage?

Why is it that when more people have access to legal guns that violent crime goes down? and do you want gun control or less violent crime, because they are on opposite ends of the spectrum!

[bladimz]

You are correct, but those that purchase new guns and handguns and do not go through background checks except at gun show in a few states? I was under the impression that in the case of gun shows background checks are mandatory only if the show's promoters say they are. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[Mister D]

It's amazing how much ideological confusion this causes progressives. Well, if we focus on non-whites that would be racist but in reality it's in their communities where the problem actually lies. What to do!? We can't be racist. That is priority number one so let's propose some feel good measures that make us look like we're doing something and soothe our consciensces while allowing us to ignore the 800 gorilla in the room.

[zelmo1234]

<Ok, mis-use of and no mandatory training of firearms is not a problem in this country.>

Of the 80 million owners, how many do you think are adequately trained and comfortable with their weapons knowledge?

Well being that nearly 100% of them are not comitting crime and the accidental shooting deaths are lower than the sports of scoccer, football baseball, hocky? do we have to fix a problem that does not exist?

Or shoudl we put all efforst into getting the guns oout of the thugs that ahve bought or stolen them illegally!

Are we interested in reducing violent crime or hassleing law abiding citizens.

Now I am a certified trainier and agree that more training would be great! Should we train all students in public schools in the safe handeling of firearms because they are likely to run into a gun in thier lifetime?

[zelmo1234]

It's amazing how much ideological confusion this causes progressives. Well, if we focus on non-whites that would be racist but in reality it's in their communities where the problem actually lies. What to do!? We can't be racist. That is priority number one so let's propose some feel good measures that make us look like we're doing something and soothe our consciensces while allowing us to ignore the 800 gorilla in the room.

You do not have to focus on colr you can focus o the area. this area has too much violent crime! so put in a task force and use enforcment to reduce violent crime in that area. let those that are breakng the law be punished, no matter what color thay are!

[zelmo1234]

I was under the impression that in the case of gun shows background checks are mandatory only if the show's promoters say they are. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Several states including MI have mandatory background checks at gun shows. There are states that do not ahve that requirement!

[zelmo1234]

I've heard this claim from the right a number of times, but i don't think i've seen it backed up very well.


So the statistic from the FBI are not good enough for you???????????

What do you need an act of God writing it in the sky?

Now the decline started before Obama took office, but it is donw even more under Holder, who we know is hesitant to prosicute people of color!

So why not start with manditory prosicution! except in extreme cases. for example I borrow a car from my neighbor and he forgets his pistol is in the trunk, I get in a accident???? the police find the pistol in the trunk, unloaded and in a case. I would have comitted a felony firearm act, but that is not the spirite of the law!

[zelmo1234]

Of course i have to ask: Would you be comfortable living with a person who owns a gun and is on anti-depressants? Wouldn't that make you just a little edgy?

No the person in CA did not own the guns though she had shot them with her husband, she was on anti depressants because her parents both died in a car accident and she was feeling a little blue!

Now if a person tells the Doc they are considering killing all of the people on their block??? then he needs to report that and that is a warrant issue between the doc, the prosicutor and the police! backed by a judge

[bladimz]

Ok explain this if we have a gun problem in the hands of law abiding citizens?

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/mar/23/gun-free-zones-dont-work/

So we have cities that ahve these strict gun laws and the law abiding citizens abid by them and the thugs use this to there advantage?

Why is it that when more people have access to legal guns that violent crime goes down? and do you want gun control or less violent crime, because they are on opposite ends of the spectrum!The link discusses the questionable safety of "gun-free zones". I would suggest maintaining the gun-free zone with the addition of scanning equipment to determine whether each person is carrying or not.

Allowing guns to be carried on college campuses would give any number of weekend frat-party drunks the opportunity to settle an argument they might even remember the next morning. <Good idea!>

[bladimz]

No the person in CA did not own the guns though she had shot them with her husband, she was on anti depressants because her parents both died in a car accident and she was feeling a little blue!

Now if a person tells the Doc they are considering killing all of the people on their block??? then he needs to report that and that is a warrant issue between the doc, the prosicutor and the police! backed by a judgeSo you wouldn't feel uncomfortable with that girl's access to a handgun? She was on anti-depressants because she was feeling sad and look what she wound up doing!

[zelmo1234]

The link discusses the questionable safety of "gun-free zones". I would suggest maintaining the gun-free zone with the addition of scanning equipment to determine whether each person is carrying or not.

Allowing guns to be carried on college campuses would give any number of weekend frat-party drunks the opportunity to settle an argument they might even remember the next morning. <Good idea!>

You are back to an enforcemnt nightmare,, take shicago are you going to check every care comeing into the city each day?

If i own a movie house in oneo f your gun free zones are you going to supply the metal dectors and are you going to supply the police to run it?

The beauty of concel carry is that it uses law abiding citizems to put the criminals on edge because they no longer have the advantage of know that they are the only person with a gun!

And it cost nothing to the govenrment.

Since 1996 ther have been millions of peopel that have started carrying firearms. and the violent crime rates continue to drop? It should be evident that it is working?

With million of people packing heat if it was going to turn into the wild west, don't you think that it would have started to happen?

Or is it possible that those on the left, are scared of guns and do not understand them and that they don't want anyone to ahve them. Look at Mrs Chloe for example, she is one of the nicest people in the world, but doens not want anyome to have a gun period! So she will overlook all of the facts to accomplish her goal of no guns!

And if concel carry increases violent crime on collage campus why are the schools that allow it not having that problem!

[zelmo1234]

So you wouldn't feel uncomfortable with that girl's access to a handgun? She was on anti-depressants because she was feeling sad and look what she wound up doing!

The couple in the areticl forfited theier guns and filed a law suit!

there is a difference between serious mental liiness and someone on anti depressants to get through the trouble in a period in life.

What you will do with these laws is prevent people from going to seek help and that will cause more issues.

I know that I would never consider going to seek help for depression because of the federal govenrment. and what they might do!

I no longer turst my government and those that would see the second amendment abolished! It is a shame.

And yes there are many collage campuses that ahve concealed carry as part of thier campus protection.

Keep in mind in every state that I know of if you have about a half a beer and are carring a firearm you are in violation of the law!

I think that you are debating in good faith, but you are not real firmiliar with current firearm laws and regulations? And that is exactly where those that want very strick gun regulations want!

[Dr. Who]

Again, we don't have a gun problem in the US. We have a cultural problem in the communities of color. Of course, those images of inner city mayhem are not exploited for political purposes. One wonders why...Interesting that almost none of the mass shootings have come from "communities of color". If anything communities of color tend to prey on each other as one might expect in communities of poverty.

[Mister D]

Interesting that almost none of the mass shootings have come from "communities of color". If anything communities of color tend to prey on each other as one might expect in communities of poverty.

Do you also think it's interesting that mass murder accounts for a tiny fraction of annual homicides? Most homicides involve a killer and victim of the same race.

[CRUE CAB]

NOT UniversallyI dont think you know just how intrusive the UBC was going to be.
Also, I have a RIGHT to a gun. Not a credit card.