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Cigar
07-08-2013, 02:23 PM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1043873_10151696484760155_1923159305_n.jpg

My Mother was Baptist and my Father was more Roman Catholic ...

I ended up going to Catholic School x through 8th grade, then I was paroled to the real world at Public High School.

Thank God :grin:

jillian
07-08-2013, 03:03 PM
zeus and apollo were cool.

but i was always kind of fond of aphrodite and athena.

Chris
07-08-2013, 03:09 PM
No.

Father was Lutheran but mother Catholic who converted him to marry.

Like you, cigar, I went to Catholic grade school, was an altar boy, once considered becoming a Jesuit.


Dawkins should stick to his area of expertise, ethology and evolutionary biology. When it comes to politics he's just another liberal control freak who has in The God Delusion advocated the state take children away from religious parents.

jillian
07-08-2013, 03:10 PM
No.

Father was Lutheran but mother Catholic who converted him to marry.


Dawkins should stick to his area of expertise, ethology and evolutionary biology. When it comes to politics he's just another liberal control freak who has in The God Delusion advocated the state take children away from religious parents.

so you think he's wrong? that we don't acquire our religious indoctrination from our parents?

Chris
07-08-2013, 03:12 PM
so you think he's wrong? that we don't acquire our religious indoctrination from our parents?

He's wrong for the reason I gave, why try to twist what I said? Why, do you support him?

nic34
07-08-2013, 03:13 PM
He's right. Prejudices and bias is passed down through generations.

Why do you think some are still fighting the (un)civil war?

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:14 PM
so you think he's wrong? that we don't acquire our religious indoctrination from our parents?

It's not so much that he's wrong. It's just that it was an inane comment. Yes, we get a lot from our parents like culture, for example. :laugh: Give us a Feuerbach! A Marx! A Nietzsche! Yes, Dick really does need to stick with what he's good at. He is actually a brilliant biologist from what I understand.

jillian
07-08-2013, 03:14 PM
He's wrong for the reason I gave, why try to twist what I said? Why, do you support him?

do you see my question mark. it's a question. no one is trying to twist anything.

and you gave one example of someone who converted to marry.

what religion was he raised in?

and what religion were *you* raised in.

i was raised jewish.

i'm still jewish.

i find other religions (except buddhism) ... silly.

and that is not for lack of study... or exposure... to other beliefs. i just find them ridiculous and without credibility.

again, something i'm sure has noooooothing to do with my parents.

now stop being paranoid... no one is twisting anything.

and start standing by your comments.

and frankly, to someone not a christian, one braind of christian is pretty much like every other.

so lutheran, catholic, episcopal... it's not like there's a huge range of beliefs there.

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:15 PM
He's right. Prejudices and bias is passed down through generations.

Why do you think some are still fighting the (un)civil war?

So are culture, values, norms...you know civilization? :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:16 PM
do you see my question mark. it's a question. no one is trying to twist anything.

and you gave one example of someone who converted to marry.

what religion was he raised in?

and what religion were *you* raised in.

i was raised jewish.

i'm still jewish.

i find other religions (except buddhism) ... silly.

and that is not for lack of study... or exposure... to other beliefs. i just find them ridiculous and without credibility.

again, something i'm sure has noooooothing to do with my parents.

now stop being paranoid... no one is twisting anything.

and start standing by your comments.

and frankly, to someone not a christian, one braind of christian is pretty much like every other.

so lutheran, catholic, episcopal... it's not like there's a huge range of beliefs there.

I find Judaism silly. And ethnocentric. Shrug.

Chris
07-08-2013, 03:17 PM
He's right. Prejudices and bias is passed down through generations.

Why do you think some are still fighting the (un)civil war?

Yet both Cigar's and my cases demonstrate he is wrong.

jillian
07-08-2013, 03:18 PM
It's not so much that he's wrong. It's just that it was an inane comment. Yes, we get a lot from our parents like culture, for example. :laugh: Give us a Feuerbach! A Marx! A Nietzsche! Yes, Dick really does need to stick with what he's good at. He is actually a brilliant biologist from what I understand.

what is inane about saying something one believes to be true... and which really is true. he, of course, rejected the notion of the existence of G-d. i don't. but that doesn't mean i don't see the truth in what he said.

politics are not always passed down. my father and i never agreed on politics.

my son (who is 15) considers himself culturally jewish, but thinks voltaire and the deists had the right idea (very jeffersonian of him).

Chris
07-08-2013, 03:20 PM
do you see my question mark. it's a question. no one is trying to twist anything.

and you gave one example of someone who converted to marry.

what religion was he raised in?

and what religion were *you* raised in.

i was raised jewish.

i'm still jewish.

i find other religions (except buddhism) ... silly.

and that is not for lack of study... or exposure... to other beliefs. i just find them ridiculous and without credibility.

again, something i'm sure has noooooothing to do with my parents.

now stop being paranoid... no one is twisting anything.

and start standing by your comments.

and frankly, to someone not a christian, one braind of christian is pretty much like every other.

so lutheran, catholic, episcopal... it's not like there's a huge range of beliefs there.

Questions carry implications, jill.


As my initial post said, he was raised Lutheran and I was raised Catholic but never accepted it.


You're Jewish, good, keep the faith.


I find no religion silly. I think that attitude somewhat egotistical.


I'm not being paranoid, you tend to twist what people say to your own agenda.


I stand by by comments.

Cigar
07-08-2013, 03:21 PM
I'm just glad I don't have to go any more :)

Besides, I have a permanent tee time on Sundays.

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:22 PM
what is inane about saying something one believes to be true... and which really is true. he, of course, rejected the notion of the existence of G-d. i don't. but that doesn't mean i don't see the truth in what he said.

politics are not always passed down. my father and i never agreed on politics.

my son (who is 15) considers himself culturally jewish, but thinks voltaire and the deists had the right idea (very jeffersonian of him).

Look up "inane", sweetie. Whether he believes it to be true or not is irrelevant.

No one said politics was passed down.

I'm sure he'll make a fine Jew.

nic34
07-08-2013, 03:22 PM
Yet both Cigar's and my cases demonstrate he is wrong.

Well that's 2.... you got some more?

jillian
07-08-2013, 03:24 PM
Questions carry implications, jill.


As my initial post said, he was raised Lutheran and I was raised Catholic but never accepted it.


You're Jewish, good, keep the faith.


I find no religion silly. I think that attitude somewhat egotistical.


I'm not being paranoid, you tend to twist what people say to your own agenda.


I stand by by comments.

do they, chris? is that why you always ask 'questions'? at least mine advances the thread.

actually i didn't see you say you didn't accept her beliefs. if i missed that, sorry.

i do keep the faith.... if not the orthodoxy. i find most orthodox religion onorous for women... which is why i like kaballah and buddhism.

i don't twist anything. you seem to be projecting.

no worries.

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:25 PM
do they, chris? is that why you always ask 'questions'? at least mine advances the thread.

actually i didn't see you say you didn't accept her beliefs. if i missed that, sorry.

i do keep the faith.... if not the orthodoxy. i find most orthodox religion onorous for women... which is why i like kaballah and buddhism.

i don't twist anything. you seem to be projecting.

no worries.

Yes, patriarchal Semitic cultures must be a real drag.

jillian
07-08-2013, 03:27 PM
Look up "inane", sweetie. Whether he believes it to be true or not is irrelevant.

No one said politics was passed down.

I'm sure he'll make a fine Jew.

first of all, honey bear, my working vocabulary is pretty extensive.

and given that he's not wrong about religion being passed down (as a general rule), i agree with the premise. there isn't anything inane or insipid or trite or puerile or absurd about what he said.

as for him being a 'good jew'. no he wouldn't have been. he didn't believe in G-d.

Chris
07-08-2013, 03:28 PM
Well that's 2.... you got some more?

http://i.snag.gy/Dx6Mq.jpg

http://i.snag.gy/3Yd5M.jpg

@ http://www.pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux.aspx


I'm not arguing parents do not influence, or that some do not indoctrinate. I would argue that peers and community--society, culture, if you will--has a stronger influence than just parents.


The only religion I'm against is statism.

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:30 PM
first of all, honey bear, my working vocabulary is pretty extensive.

and given that he's not wrong about religion being passed down (as a general rule), i agree with the premise. there isn't anything inane or insipid or trite or puerile or absurd about what he said.

as for him being a 'good jew'. no he wouldn't have been. he didn't believe in G-d.

You wouldn't know it.

I agree with the premise too but it was an inane comment. That you consider it a thoughtful remark says a lot. None of it's good.

I was talking about your son, dear. Is he dead? Why past tense?

Chris
07-08-2013, 03:32 PM
do they, chris? is that why you always ask 'questions'? at least mine advances the thread.

actually i didn't see you say you didn't accept her beliefs. if i missed that, sorry.

i do keep the faith.... if not the orthodoxy. i find most orthodox religion onorous for women... which is why i like kaballah and buddhism.

i don't twist anything. you seem to be projecting.

no worries.

Linguistic fact, jill.

OK, apology accepted.

Good for you. I'm interested in Judaism, love the Old Testament stories. Discovering Buddhism is one part of what told be I could not believe--no, I'm not a Buddhist either.

You do twist what people post.

I'm not worried.

jillian
07-08-2013, 03:34 PM
You wouldn't know it.

I agree with the premise too but it was an inane comment. That you consider it a thoughtful remark says a lot. None of it's good.

I was talking about your son, dear. Is he dead? Why past tense?

actually you would know if you bothered reading with comprehension.

but let's get to the bottom of this.... why, if you agree with his premise, do you think his comment was inane? that strikes me as odd.

as for my son. thank G-d he is alive and well and being pretty awesome for a 15 year old. i thought you were referring to dawkins.

but you knew that.... or should have.

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:38 PM
actually you would know if you bothered reading with comprehension.

but let's get to the bottom of this.... why, if you agree with his premise, do you think his comment was inane? that strikes me as odd.

as for my son. thank G-d he is alive and well and being pretty awesome for a 15 year old. i thought you were referring to dawkins.

but you knew that.... or should have.

Reading comprehension seems to your issue, dear.

Sigh...it lacks substance. It was an inane remark. Yes, religious traditions are handed down with much else. Wow! How profound! Again, that you considered that thoughtful says a lot about you. None of it's good.

I wasn't and I thought you didn't know that. I was right. Work on that reading comprehension.

roadmaster
07-08-2013, 03:38 PM
No, my Dad didn't attend Church and my Mom only went on Easter, Christmas or homecoming. I went with my Grandmothers and was called at an early age. It was us kids that were the ones who turned our parents and Rev. Graham.:grin:

Adelaide
07-08-2013, 03:39 PM
Stop with the name calling and personal insults.

Chris
07-08-2013, 03:45 PM
No, my Dad didn't attend Church and my Mom only went on Easter, Christmas or homecoming. I went with my Grandmothers and was called at an early age. It was us kids that were the ones who turned our parents and Rev. Graham.:grin:



Another perfectly good example, nic, of someone choosing re religion differently than their parents.

Key here, I think, is choice, like roadmaster here, she chose freely to believe or not. I don't think indoctrination serves religion, only the state.

jillian
07-08-2013, 03:46 PM
Another perfectly good example, nic, of someone choosing re religion differently than their parents.

Key here, I think, is choice, like roadmaster here, she chose freely to believe or not. I don't think indoctrination serves religion, only the state.

she 'chose' it from her grandmother who indoctrinated her. but why quibble?

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:46 PM
Mother is a Protestant minister. I'm unaffiliated with any church.

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:47 PM
she 'chose' it from her grandmother who indoctrinated her. but why quibble?

How do you choose something from someone else? What does that even mean?

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:48 PM
she 'chose' it from her grandmother who indoctrinated her. but why quibble?

Now of course you were never "indoctrinated". :wink:

Chloe
07-08-2013, 03:49 PM
Yes my parents and i are all Jewish although my parents are a little more religious than I am, but my grandparents were/are orthodox so I guess the devoutness has gone down some in my family. For example for me I looked more forward to my bat mitzvah more so for the party and the money more than the religious implications of it, but most do so thats nothing new.

As I am getting older now though I have been starting to embrace the more religious aspects of my faith a little more and appreciate it more. Probably in the last couple of years which my parents seem to be appreciating. Obviously my future kids will be Jewish too. I think it's fine to want your kids to be the same religion as the parents, but obviously at a certain age the kid will be able to choose for themselves.

Chris
07-08-2013, 03:51 PM
she 'chose' it from her grandmother who indoctrinated her. but why quibble?

Another nice twisting of what someone posted.

Show us where roadmaster's post indicated any indoctrination? Here's the relevant words again: "I went with my Grandmothers and was called at an early age." That active voice. You do understand what it means to be called, don't you? Both imply choice. Now, please, demonstrate indoctrination.

roadmaster
07-08-2013, 03:52 PM
she 'chose' it from her grandmother who indoctrinated her. but why quibble? No I asked to go big difference.

Chris
07-08-2013, 03:54 PM
Yes my parents and i are all Jewish although my parents are a little more religious than I am, but my grandparents were/are orthodox so I guess the devoutness has gone down some in my family. For example for me I looked more forward to my bat mitzvah more so for the party and the money more than the religious implications of it, but most do so thats nothing new.

As I am getting older now though I have been starting to embrace the more religious aspects of my faith a little more and appreciate it more. Probably in the last couple of years which my parents seem to be appreciating. Obviously my future kids will be Jewish too. I think it's fine to want your kids to be the same religion as the parents, but obviously at a certain age the kid will be able to choose for themselves.

There it is again, at some point people choose to believe or not.

And, as chloe is clearly saying, revisit and review that choice throughout life.



He not busy being born is busy dying.
--Bob Dylan

Mister D
07-08-2013, 03:54 PM
Now if we want to refer to the way in which civilization, culture, traditions, norms, values etc. are passed along to the next generation as "indoctrination" then the term kind of loses its sting. It also reveals a lot about the people who would make such a remark as Chris pointed out. Who then should be raising children and instilling values in them? The almighty state?

oceanloverOH
07-08-2013, 03:58 PM
My mother was agnostic. Dad was a practicing Catholic until he married her, a divorced woman; and the Catholics excommunicated him (that's what they did in the 1950s). I was not trained in any given religion as a child, just read childrens' Bible stories and such. At 8, Dad was transferred to New Orleans....in those days in LA, public school teachers needed only a high school diploma and a mail-order teaching certificate. They wanted a better education for me, so got permission from the Bishop to send me to Catholic school. That was where I received the bulk of my religious training for 4 years....but my wise parents saw to it that I made my own choice. I never agreed to Catholic baptism, I questioned too many of their precepts. Over the years, I have taken a little of this religion, a little of that religion, and formed my own set of Christian beliefs. I believe in Christianity and I'm happy with that.

Chris
07-08-2013, 04:02 PM
I learned a long time ago to respect people's religious choices if I wanted mine respected.

Chloe
07-08-2013, 04:04 PM
No I asked to go big difference.

It could be argued though that the initial trips to church or temple or wherever you go is by indoctrination since you are too young to truly understand. When I was little I had no clue why I had to cover my eyes lighting candles on Shabbat, or why I was bowing like I had to for certain words or phrases, or what I was even saying in Hebrew. Those early years I was indoctrinated. As I got older and understood more I started to pick and choose and question stuff but even then I didn't jump ship. I tend to agree that kids are initially indoctrinated to their parents faith but eventually they make conscious choices on their own to either embrace it, deny it, or do a little bit of both.

KC
07-08-2013, 04:08 PM
I was raised as a Christian by my parents, although my Dad is an Atheist. Today I'm Agnostic.

Mister D
07-08-2013, 04:08 PM
It could be argued though that the initial trips to church or temple or wherever you go is by indoctrination since you are too young to truly understand. When I was little I had no clue why I had to cover my eyes lighting candles on Shabbat, or why I was bowing like I had to, or what I was even saying in Hebrew. Those early years I was indoctrinated. As I got older and understood more I started to pick and choose and question stuff but even then I didn't jump ship. I tend to agree that kids are initially indoctrinated to their parents faith but eventually they make conscious choices on their own to either embrace it, deny it, or do a little bit of both.

Chloe, that's true of almost everything. You are born within a social context and into a web of social relations. You are raised within that context. It's inescapable. That's why Dick's remarks were utterly uninsightful.

Adelaide
07-08-2013, 04:09 PM
Mother is Catholic, father is an Atheist (raised Lutheran) and I'm Jewish. They didn't really believe in teaching me any one religion but encouraged me to go to different types of religious youth groups and to educate myself. My brother is an Atheist. Neither of us were baptized due to objections from my father, my parents had a civil wedding not a religious ceremony, we went to public school instead of Catholic school (my mother had gone to Catholic school), we didn't celebrate any religious holidays the way most families do. My parents were the same way with politics - didn't tell me who they voted for and wanted me to discover for myself what my beliefs and eventual party affiliation would be. When I turned 18 and voted, my father finally revealed that he's a staunch conservative. My mother is also a conservative. My brother is a Green party supporter and I'm a socialist.

Family dinners can be a lot of fun in my house.

Chris
07-08-2013, 04:14 PM
It could be argued though that the initial trips to church or temple or wherever you go is by indoctrination since you are too young to truly understand. When I was little I had no clue why I had to cover my eyes lighting candles on Shabbat, or why I was bowing like I had to for certain words or phrases, or what I was even saying in Hebrew. Those early years I was indoctrinated. As I got older and understood more I started to pick and choose and question stuff but even then I didn't jump ship. I tend to agree that kids are initially indoctrinated to their parents faith but eventually they make conscious choices on their own to either embrace it, deny it, or do a little bit of both.

Well, OK, in a sense. But what you've done is actually draw a distinction between indoctrination as teaching and it's more emotional, pejorative connotation of forcing or coercing people to believe something. Our parents teach us what they know and believe. The state forces and coerces--which is odd when you think Dawkins wants to take kids from their parents and hand them over to the state.

roadmaster
07-08-2013, 04:19 PM
It could be argued though that the initial trips to church or temple or wherever you go is by indoctrination since you are too young to truly understand. When I was little I had no clue why I had to cover my eyes lighting candles on Shabbat, or why I was bowing like I had to for certain words or phrases, or what I was even saying in Hebrew. Those early years I was indoctrinated. As I got older and understood more I started to pick and choose and question stuff but even then I didn't jump ship. I tend to agree that kids are initially indoctrinated to their parents faith but eventually they make conscious choices on their own to either embrace it, deny it, or do a little bit of both.

I had never went, it wasn't mandatory even with mom. Funny He picked the one who rarely talked, not a great speaker, and didn't show many emotions. I would have been the last one to pick me.

Chris
07-08-2013, 04:20 PM
I had never went, it wasn't mandatory even with mom. Funny He picked the one who rarely talked, not a great speaker, and didn't show many emotions. I would have been the last one to pick me.

Yet you stand well for your beliefs now. It's said the Lord works in mysterious ways.

roadmaster
07-08-2013, 04:23 PM
Yet you stand well for your beliefs now. It's said the Lord works in mysterious ways.

Thanks and yes He does. Everyone of my aunts and uncles received Him before their deaths and my parents.

Chloe
07-08-2013, 04:26 PM
Well, OK, in a sense. But what you've done is actually draw a distinction between indoctrination as teaching and it's more emotional, pejorative connotation of forcing or coercing people to believe something. Our parents teach us what they know and believe. The state forces and coerces--which is odd when you think Dawkins wants to take kids from their parents and hand them over to the state.

Sorry you kind of lost me in that second sentence. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night and those were bigger words than I normally see and use :)

fyi there wasn't a lot of voluntary stuff on my part growing up. I was going to become bat mitzvah with or without my consent and so with that I was going to memorize a whole bunch of stuff, go to Hebrew school, and do all of things that were necessary for my bat mitzvah. My parents and grandparents were worse than the state could ever be for the first 12 years of my life, although the party afterwards was amazing :)

Chris
07-08-2013, 04:36 PM
Sorry you kind of lost me in that second sentence. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night and those were bigger words than I normally see and use :)

fyi there wasn't a lot of voluntary stuff on my part growing up. I was going to become bat mitzvah with or without my consent and so with that I was going to memorize a whole bunch of stuff, go to Hebrew school, and do all of things that were necessary for my bat mitzvah. My parents and grandparents were worse than the state could ever be for the first 12 years of my life, although the party afterwards was amazing :)

Because you were a kid. My parents were the same. But it was not forced. Well, there were times my dad used a belt, but still....

What I was saying, unclearly, is there's a difference between the sense of indoctrinating as teaching and indoctrinating as forcing. Parents compete with rest of family, friends and their families, school, community, society, culture etc. The state has a monopoly on coercive power. Dawkins, I think, was using that ambiguity with duplicity, by switching the negative connotation to parents and the positive to the state..

Agravan
07-08-2013, 04:40 PM
actually you would know if you bothered reading with comprehension.

but let's get to the bottom of this.... why, if you agree with his premise, do you think his comment was inane? that strikes me as odd.

as for my son. thank G-d he is alive and well and being pretty awesome for a 15 year old. i thought you were referring to dawkins.

but you knew that.... or should have.

Who is this G-d you keep mentioning?

Chloe
07-08-2013, 04:46 PM
Who is this G-d you keep mentioning?

Sorry I know you were asking Jillian but its common in Judaism to write G-d so that you don't risk his actual name being erased of defaced in some way. I admittedly don't do it although I probably should be more respectful at times. She doesn't mean anything bad when she does that, it's actually a good thing. :)

Chris
07-08-2013, 04:59 PM
Sorry I know you were asking Jillian but its common in Judaism to write G-d so that you don't risk his actual name being erased of defaced in some way. I admittedly don't do it although I probably should be more respectful at times. She doesn't mean anything bad when she does that, it's actually a good thing. :)

When'd you all stop using JHWH?

Chloe
07-08-2013, 05:06 PM
When'd you all stop using JHWH?

Im sure people still do. Adonai and hashem are popular too, at least in my family.

Chris
07-08-2013, 05:39 PM
Im sure people still do. Adonai and hashem are popular too, at least in my family.

In writing, right? It's unpronounceable. Jehovah a poor attempt.

That was interesting what you said about protecting G-d's name.

Chloe
07-08-2013, 05:45 PM
In writing, right? It's unpronounceable. Jehovah a poor attempt.

That was interesting what you said about protecting G-d's name.

Well like for example if you were to write out a sentence with "God" on and then you don't need it anymore and so you crumble it up and throw it away it could be said that you are denigrating Gods name, but if you write G-d then it doesn't, at least that's the understanding.

Chris
07-08-2013, 05:59 PM
Well like for example if you were to write out a sentence with "God" on and then you don't need it anymore and so you crumble it up and throw it away it could be said that you are denigrating Gods name, but if you write G-d then it doesn't, at least that's the understanding.

Yea, just never heard about that before.

jillian
07-08-2013, 09:43 PM
Sorry I know you were asking Jillian but its common in Judaism to write G-d so that you don't risk his actual name being erased of defaced in some way. I admittedly don't do it although I probably should be more respectful at times. She doesn't mean anything bad when she does that, it's actually a good thing. :)

^^^^

what she said.

Mister D
07-08-2013, 09:44 PM
^^^^

what she said.

Isn't that kind of "silly"? :grin:

jillian
07-08-2013, 09:46 PM
Isn't that kind of "silly"? :grin:

no.

it's always interesting seeing you troll on this issue. if i ever attacked christian beliefs the way you do jewish ones, you'd have a breakdown.

Mister D
07-08-2013, 09:48 PM
no.

it's always interesting seeing you troll on this issue. if i ever attacked christian beliefs the way you do jewish ones, you'd have a breakdown.

Don't like your words coming back to haunt you, huh? Put more thought into them. :smiley: You have already attacked my beliefs. I just give it right back. You call it anti-Semitism. lol

Mr Happy
07-08-2013, 10:22 PM
It's not so much that he's wrong. It's just that it was an inane comment.

A bit like these two sentences...

Mister D
07-08-2013, 10:24 PM
A bit like these two sentences...

How so? no worries. I know you're just barking.

Mr Happy
07-09-2013, 06:16 PM
How so? no worries. I know you're just barking.

Not really. I found you calling Dawkin's comments inane, also inane...shrug...

Chris
07-09-2013, 06:20 PM
Not really. I found you calling Dawkin's comments inane, also inane...shrug...

And that would be inane by your "reasoning". Recursive inanity.

Mr Happy
07-09-2013, 06:30 PM
And that would be inane by your "reasoning". Recursive inanity.

And you haven't said the same to D over his comments about Dawkins because.....

Chris
07-09-2013, 06:37 PM
And you haven't said the same to D over his comments about Dawkins because.....

Miss my point?

Mister D
07-09-2013, 06:41 PM
And you haven't said the same to D over his comments about Dawkins because.....

I explained my reasoning quite well actually. You quoted me selectively, Happy. Try not to do that. What's yours?

Buehre
07-11-2013, 06:40 PM
Well to break the argument a little maybe... Back to the question. My parents are strong Protestant Christians. I grew up that way until I was 14, opened my eyes up. Researched various religions extensively, I decided to become a Karaite Jew. It was pretty much the same as my beliefs so it made sense.

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 07:24 PM
Miss my point?

No. I agree, we're going around in inane circles..

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 07:25 PM
I explained my reasoning quite well actually. You quoted me selectively, Happy. Try not to do that. What's yours?

If you think that was a good explanation, you need to tick the "must try harder" box when posting. You stating you think it is inane just because you think it is, doesn't do much to help your cause IMO..

Mister D
07-11-2013, 07:33 PM
If you think that was a good explanation, you need to tick the "must try harder" box when posting. You stating you think it is inane just because you think it is, doesn't do much to help your cause IMO..

You didn't even copy the full quote. Let us know when you can discuss this rationally as well as honestly.

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 07:47 PM
You didn't even copy the full quote. Let us know when you can discuss this rationally as well as honestly.

Which part of you quote that I left out would have added any value to what you said, or qualified what you said?

Mister D
07-11-2013, 08:11 PM
Which part of you quote that I left out would have added any value to what you said, or qualified what you said?

Again, let us know when you can discuss this rationally and honestly. Then again, the point was to come to Jillian's rescue again so engaging ideas was not your priority. You make such an ass out of yourself for her. I hope she's worth it. :wink:

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 08:13 PM
Again, let us know when you can discuss this rationally and honestly. Then again, the point was to come to Jillian's rescue again so engaging ideas was not your priority. You make such an ass out of yourself for her. I hope she's worth it. :wink:

Note to Chris:

Now THAT ^^^^^^ is what is called an Ad Hom....

Mister D
07-11-2013, 08:19 PM
Note to Chris:

Now THAT ^^^^^^ is what is called an Ad Hom....

You were dishonest in quoting me selectively. What do you want? Respect? LOL

Mister D
07-11-2013, 08:21 PM
And, no, that's just an observation. You haven't made an argument and never intended to.

Chris
07-11-2013, 08:24 PM
No. I agree, we're going around in inane circles..

No, you missed my point.

Chris
07-11-2013, 08:24 PM
Note to Chris:

Now THAT ^^^^^^ is what is called an Ad Hom....

Why?

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 08:24 PM
No, you missed my point.

What was you point?

Mister D
07-11-2013, 08:25 PM
What was you point?

Happy, why are you still here? It's obviously not for discussion.

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 08:26 PM
You were dishonest in quoting me selectively. What do you want? Respect? LOL

I only quoted the part that mattered. You have failed to highlight what parts of the quote I didn't post that mattered. I only covet respect from those that I respect. You are not in that category.

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 08:28 PM
Happy, why are you still here? It's obviously not for discussion.

D, the only things you give two hoots about is how much you can belittle another poster; how cynical you can sound; how intellectually superior [you think] you are; and how many snide asides you can fit into one post. Please don't lecture me on why I'm here and whether I want to debate issues. You border on the epitome of a troll....at best.

Chris
07-11-2013, 08:29 PM
What was you point?

Now we agree.

Mister D
07-11-2013, 08:30 PM
I only quoted the part that mattered. You have failed to highlight what parts of the quote I didn't post that mattered. I only covet respect from those that I respect. You are not in that category.

:laugh: You took the time to quote me and deleted what you did not want to respond to. now I'm supposed to do your work for you? Frankly, this is kind of silly. Again, why are you still here? It's obviously not for discussion

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 08:31 PM
:laugh: You took the time to quote me and deleted what you did not want to respond to. now I'm supposed to do your work for you? Frankly, this is kind of silly. Again, why are you still here? It's obviously not for discussion

Of course I did, because they were the only parts that mattered to me, and my only point.

Mister D
07-11-2013, 08:31 PM
Happy and Jillian
sitting in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
First comes love,
then comes marriage,
then comes baby
in a baby carriage


:smiley_ROFLMAO:

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 08:36 PM
Now we agree.

No, you were talking about recursive inanity - that means we were in a never-ending circle of inaneness. If you meant something else, please explain. If you can't explain, no worries...

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 08:38 PM
Happy and Jillian
sitting in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
First comes love,
then comes marriage,
then comes baby
in a baby carriage


:smiley_ROFLMAO:

Thanks for proving post 81.

That aside, you have yet to respond to why I should give a shit about the parts of your post I didn't quote. There was nothing of import in there and it was not my point anyway...

Mister D
07-11-2013, 08:43 PM
Thanks for proving post 81.

That aside, you have yet to respond to why I should give a shit about the parts of your post I didn't quote. There was nothing of import in there and it was not my point anyway...

Why are you still here? :laugh: Oh, that's right...

Happy and Jillian
sitting in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
First comes love,
then comes marriage,
then comes baby
in a baby carriage

roadmaster
07-11-2013, 08:44 PM
no.

it's always interesting seeing you troll on this issue. if i ever attacked christian beliefs the way you do jewish ones, you'd have a breakdown.
You have been doing it all along, why stop now?

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 08:52 PM
Why are you still here? :laugh: Oh, that's right...

Happy and Jillian
sitting in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
First comes love,
then comes marriage,
then comes baby
in a baby carriage

No, I just rang my wife and my 10 year old isn't only this messageboard board acting like...well, a 10 year old. So you really are that immature, huh? You remind me of one of those college geeks so caught up in their own superiority complex, and get so enraged that they are being dismissed as nothing more than dimwits, that they're only response is to go into 'immaturity' mode. Well done...:owned:

Mister D
07-11-2013, 09:02 PM
No, I just rang my wife and my 10 year old isn't only this messageboard board acting like...well, a 10 year old. So you really are that immature, huh? You remind me of one of those college geeks so caught up in their own superiority complex, and get so enraged that they are being dismissed as nothing more than dimwits, that they're only response is to go into 'immaturity' mode. Well done...:owned:

Does your wife know about Jillian? :shocked: :laugh:

KC
07-11-2013, 09:07 PM
Mr Happy Mister D

Both of you stop attacking one another and get back on topic.

Dr. Who
07-11-2013, 09:45 PM
Happy and Jillian
sitting in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
First comes love,
then comes marriage,
then comes baby
in a baby carriage


:smiley_ROFLMAO:

Really Mister D?

Mister D
07-11-2013, 09:49 PM
Really Mister D?

Yes, really. :grin: What should I do? Pretend Happy wasn't being grossly dishonest? Pretend he wasn't running to Jillian's aid once again? It's a habit of his. no, ridicule is what Happy deserves. He wasn't here to discuss the topic or my argument, obviously. Glad to know you support that behavior and couldn't be bothered to understand the context before commenting. not as bad as Happy but still disappointing.

Dr. Who
07-11-2013, 10:21 PM
Yes, really. :grin: What should I do? Pretend Happy wasn't being grossly dishonest? Pretend he wasn't running to Jillian's aid once again? It's a habit of his. no, ridicule is what Happy deserves. He wasn't here to discuss the topic or my argument, obviously. Glad to know you support that behavior and couldn't be bothered to understand the context before commenting. not as bad as Happy but still disappointing.I'm not questioning whether you did or didn't have a legitimate issue, but really, K-I-S-S-I-N-G? I know you are capable of a much better retort! Pull up your socks mister.

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 10:27 PM
Yes, really. :grin: What should I do? Pretend Happy wasn't being grossly dishonest? Pretend he wasn't running to Jillian's aid once again? It's a habit of his. no, ridicule is what Happy deserves. He wasn't here to discuss the topic or my argument, obviously. Glad to know you support that behavior and couldn't be bothered to understand the context before commenting. not as bad as Happy but still disappointing.

My comment had nothing to do with Jillian. I thought it inane that you called Dawkin's comment such. Read very little of your exchange with Jillian. Jillian doesn't need my input to defend. Against the likes of you, she needs no help. That much is obvious....

Mister D
07-11-2013, 10:30 PM
I'm not questioning whether you did or didn't have a legitimate issue, but really, K-I-S-S-I-N-G? I know you are capable of a much better retort! Pull up your socks mister.

Happy is here because I dared offend his wittle girlfriend. :laugh: It's just mockery and it obviously pissed him off something fierce.

Secondly, it amazes me that as one moderator seeks to end the confrontation another mod keeps posting to keep it going. Really, Dr. Who? Do some thinking.

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 10:32 PM
Happy is here because I dared offend his wittle girlfriend. :laugh: It's just mockery and it obviously pissed him off something fierce.

Secondly, it amazes me that as one moderator seeks to end the confrontation another mod keeps posting to keep it going. Really, Dr. Who? Do some thinking.

You didn't offend her as far as I can tell. You haven't pissed me off in the slightest. You'll know when I am.....

Mister D
07-11-2013, 10:35 PM
My comment had nothing to do with Jillian. I thought it inane that you called Dawkin's comment such. Read very little of your exchange with Jillian. Jillian doesn't need my input to defend. Against the likes of you, she need no help. That much is obvious....

We may thank Dr. Who. A moderator.

Your comments had everything to do with Jillian. Do you really think it's not noticeable? :laugh: I really hope she's worth it.

Mister D
07-11-2013, 10:36 PM
You didn't offend her as far as I can tell. You haven't pissed me off in the slightest. You'll know when I am.....

Yeah, that's why you're still here. :laugh:

roadmaster
07-11-2013, 10:39 PM
Do you really think it's not noticeable?It's noticeable, I have just been ignoring her for a long time.

Dr. Who
07-11-2013, 10:50 PM
Happy is here because I dared offend his wittle girlfriend. :laugh: It's just mockery and it obviously pissed him off something fierce.

Secondly, it amazes me that as one moderator seeks to end the confrontation another mod keeps posting to keep it going. Really, Dr. Who? Do some thinking. A retort doesn't have to be confrontational. A retort is a response. It can be clever, considered, intuitive or salient. It can add to the discussion. The warning was not to stop the discussion, it was to remind the posters to return to the topic and not resort to attacking each other. Mockery, while it might assuage you emotionally, is really a topic killer. What does it accomplish? What does it say - that you have nothing to offer? By the way, I was not responding as a Mod, but just another member of the forum who was surprised at your response.

Mr Happy
07-11-2013, 10:51 PM
We may thank Dr. Who. A moderator.

Your comments had everything to do with Jillian. Do you really think it's not noticeable? :laugh: I really hope she's worth it.

Well, I can't help what your perceptions are, nor am I that interested in changing them. Believe what you will, my exchange with you has nothing to do with her. I genuinely thought your comment on Dawkins was inane. You're one of these folks that come across as somebody who doesn't like those who are more intelligent than you and feel the need to belittle them (I'm referring to Dawkins here, not Jillian, although she clearly fits in that category, too). Your thoughts on Dawkins are as much boring as they are predictable. It's like the righties who can't stand Maher or Colbert or Stewart. Very intelligent, astute thinkers, but as they are 'just' comedians, you shouldn't take any notice of them, even though one Stewart political gag offers more insight in to how the system really is than any stump speech by a politico (from either party).

You feel the need to be heard because you think what you have to say is important and damn anybody who doesn't kowtow to that. To which I say ppffttt. Get over yourself, this as messageboard, not an Ivy League debate...

Mister D
07-11-2013, 10:57 PM
A retort doesn't have to be confrontational. A retort is a response. It can be clever, considered, intuitive or salient. It can add to the discussion. The warning was not to stop the discussion, it was to remind the posters to return to the topic and not resort to attacking each other. Mockery, while it might assuage you emotionally, is really a topic killer. What does it accomplish? What does it say - that you have nothing to offer? By the way, I was not responding as a Mod, but just another member of the forum who was surprised at your response.

What topic? What discussion? Happy refused to engage my argument yet took the time to quote me selectively. It was blatant. Why would someone do that? That was weird, huh? I know why. So does he.

Secondly, I know you were commenting as a member. That's why I didn't break any rule to a certain someone's chagrin no doubt. In any case, your comment was ill considered.

Dr. Who
07-11-2013, 11:03 PM
What topic? What discussion? Happy refused to engage my argument yet took the time to quote me selectively. It was blatant. Why would someone do that? That was weird, huh? I know why. So does he.

Secondly, I know you were commenting as a member. That's why I didn't break any rule to a certain someone's chagrin no doubt. In any case, your comment was ill considered.Actually I didn't actually read much of the discussion. I simply saw that elementary school rhyme and I was quite surprised that you would post something like that. I think you are better than that, so if my response is ill considered in reminding you that you are better than that, I'm sorry.

Buehre
07-12-2013, 12:13 AM
I may be a newer guy here... But I call for peace. Oh, and a stop to your guys' petty bickering :laugh:

strollingbonez
07-12-2013, 07:26 AM
no