American Gangster

[Mister D]

Anyone see this show on BET? Well, I'm watching it on the Biography Channel but it's a BET production. Anyway, this is worse than that mobster series that inspired it. It's actually kind of interesting but there are these attempts throughout each episode to redeem to these animals. "Monster" Cody...Yeah, great frigging guy. :rollseyes:

[MMC]

Is that one with Denzel Washington? Based on the true Story of Bumpy Johnson?

[Mister D]

Nah it's a series. Not a movie. It's on a lot actually.

[MMC]

Oh Yeah.....I seen that show before.

[MMC]

Here is a question for all.....(yes, that includes you who sit around here for hours and dont post shit up)are Gangsters and Mobsters the same thing? Lets not come with the friggin generality of answers like oh yeah they are both bad guys and scumbags.

[Mister D]

The mob is in essence a highly organized gang is it not?

[Captain Obvious]

Here is a question for all.....(yes, that includes you who sit around here for hours and dont post shit up)are Gangsters and Mobsters the same thing? Lets not come with the friggin generality of answers like oh yeah they are both bad guys and scumbags.

I think they're fairly synonymous terms.

[Captain Obvious]

I haven't seen the documentary either. I don't have a TV. Even when I do I rarely watch it but I'd be checking this one out when I get a chance.

[Mister D]

I haven't seen the documentary either. I don't have a TV. Even when I do I rarely watch it but I'd be checking this one out when I get a chance.

Both series are pretty interesting. The Biography Channel plays them a lot.

[MMC]

The difference is Mobsters were not generally part of an organization whereas gangsters were. Thats not to say a Mobster couldnt work for an organizaion.

Examples would be Machine Kelly, Pretty Boy Floyd, and Miller.

[Mister D]

The difference is Mobsters were not generally part of an organization whereas gangsters were. Thats not to say a Mobster couldnt work for an organizaion.

Examples would be Machine Kelly, Pretty Boy Floyd, and Miller.

All of those guys typically operated with a gang of fellow criminals. By definition, a mobster or a gangster is part of a group.

[MMC]

Yes part of gang more like, not an organization!

[Mister D]

They are all organizations. Some are just more organized than others. That's all.

[MMC]

Technically Capone and his crew were connected to a real organization.(as Capone was not Sicillian and could not be taken in by Cosa Nostra.) Most other Mobsters were not. Dillinger was considered a Mobster even tho he had his own crew. So was Pretty Boy Floyd and Babyface Nelson. Machine Gun Kelly was a bank robber but would work for the highest bidder.

Pretty much the mobsters were the gangs. While their big hey day was rolling the Cosa Nostra, the Italian Syndicate, and the La Neustra Family were organization that ran Coast to Coast in this Country.

Must be a Chicago-thing. We tend to classify them in those terms.

[Mister D]

Of course there differences. Black street gangs, for example, are no where near as organized or as hierarchical as the Italian mafia but that's a difference of degree not kind.

[MMC]

Of course there differences. Black street gangs, for example, are no where near as organized or as hierarchical as the Italian mafia but that's a difference of degree not kind.

Actually the Stone Nation is 5 times more organized and heirarchial than the Cosa Nostra, Italian Syndicate, Mexican Mafia, The Triads or Yakuza. Due to their 17 Tribes. Yet ALL Stones! Including the outed EL Ruhkns which have that attached label of Terrorist connected to them and their leader Jeff Ford.

Its like in todays world. People think that the Latin Kings, Disciples, Stones, Hell's Angels, Outlaws, are gangs. These are organizations and are listed as so by all L.E.'s. Due to political, and governmental intracacies. Operations. Man-power. All that would make up an organization. Money being the prime distinction.

[Mister D]

What the heck is the Stone Nation? Anyway, a gang is an organization.

[MMC]

The Stone Nation is an organization. The L.E.'s classify them the same way. Thats local and Fed. Tho if one was to go by definition then due to terminology you would be correct in your assessment.

Most gangs are not nationwide. Which is why it is classified that way round here. Even tho they may be a grouping of people. Organizations within this classification are not only nation-wide but world wide. Such as the Triads, and Yakuza. As well as Regionally in the World.

[MMC]

The Stones are an organization that is Nationwide and In Africa. Alledgedly there are 17tribes of them, could be more. Political Activism, Civil Rights Activists, Some of its members include. The Blackstone P Rangers, The Blackstone, Ancient Family, Bantu Stones, Captuba, Future Stones, etc etc. Also the El Rukn's which the US declared its leader Jeff Fort a terrorist long before Bin Laden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Fort

Jeff Fort (born February 20, 1947) is a former Chicago (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Chicago) gang leader, co-founder of the Black P. Stones (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Black_P._Stones) gang, and founder of its El Rukn (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Black_P._Stones) faction. He was convicted in 1987 of conspiring with Libya (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Libya) to perform acts of domestic terrorism (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Domestic_terrorism).
During the early 1960s, Fort earned the nickname "Angel" for his ability to solve disputes and form alliances between the Rangers and other gangs. By the mid 1960s, Fort assembled a coalition of 21 gangs with about 5,000 members. He organized the coalition under a governing body called the "Main 21", composed of 21 gang leaders or "generals." As the Ranger organization grew, it became involved in community and political activism. The gang also received support from Presbyterian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Presbyterian) minister Reverend John Fry who advised Hairston and Fort how to manage their organization.[6] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-Harris-5)
Under Rev. Fry's guidance, Fort obtained a charter from the State of Illinois to form a political organization, Grassroots Independent Voters of Illinois, in 1967. Fort's organization applied for and received a US$ (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/United_States_dollar)1 million federal grant from the now-defunct Office of Economic Opportunity (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Great_Society) to fund a program to teach job skills to gang members. The Rangers also received grants and loans (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#) from private foundations (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#).[6] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-Harris-5)[7] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-Jacobs-6) Unlike many gangs, the Blackstone Rangers were not considerered outsiders but had been largely accepted by Chicago society, with Jeff Fort even receiving an invitation from President Richard Nixon (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Richard_Nixon), following the 1968 election (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/1968_presidential_election) to attend the 1969 inaugural ball (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Richard_Nixon_1969_presidential_inauguration). (Fort declined this invitation, sending his "top man" Mickey Cogwell (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Mickey_Cobras) and one of his "generals" in his stead to the 1969 inauguration).

[MMC]

The Almighty Black P. Stone Nation (often abbreviated BPSN or BPS) is a Chicago (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Chicago)-based street gang (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Street_gang) estimated to have more than 30,000 members. The gang was originally formed in the late 1950s as a civil rights (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Civil_rights) organization called the Blackstone Rangers. In later years, an Islamic (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Islamic) faction of the gang emerged, naming themselves the "El Rukn tribe of the Moorish Science Temple of America (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Moorish_Science_Temple_of_America)" (or simply El Rukn). The Blackstone Rangers' founder and 'religious leader' is Abdullah-Malik (born Jeff Fort (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Jeff_Fort)).[1] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-flastate-0) The BPSN finances itself through a wide array of criminal activities and are part of the large Chicago gang alliance known as the People Nation (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/People_Nation).[2] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-1)
The Black P. Stones originated, and is based, in the South Side (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/South_Side_(Chicago)) of Chicago in the Woodlawn (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Woodlawn,_Chicago) neighborhood.[3] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-2) Their main rivals are the Gangster Disciples (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Gangster_Disciples) (GD), and to a lesser degree (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#), the Black Disciples (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Black_Disciples) (BD).
Rivals include the entire Folk Nation (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Folk_Nation) alliance and white supremacist (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/White_supremacy) groups such as the Ku Klux Klan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan) and Aryan Brotherhood (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Aryan_Brotherhood). Their allies are the Vice Lords (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Vice_Lords), Latin Kings (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Latin_Kings_(gang)) and other People Nation (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#) gangs, Black Separatist (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Black_separatism) groups, the Five Percenters (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Five_Percenters), and Los Zetas (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Los_Zetas). There are 7 BPS branches in Chicago: Gangster Stones, Jet Black Stones, Rubinite Stones, Familia Stones,Corner Stones, and Black P. Stones.[citation needed (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] All these branches have many factions.


BPSN founding member Eugene Hairston was incarcerated on drug charges on June 6, 1966,[4] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-3) and Fort was arrested for mismanagement of government grants totaling $927,000 from the U.S. Office of Economic Opportunity (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Office_of_Economic_Opportunity) in March 1972. Fort was released in the early 1980s, but was later re-incarcerated on drug charges. At some time in the 1980s, Fort converted to Islam (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Islam) and imbued the BPS with Islamic overtones. It was then that he adopted the name of Abdullah-Malik and the rank of "caliph (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Caliph)."[5] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-4) Following meetings during 1986 with Libyan operatives from Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Muammar_al-Gaddafi)'s government, Fort was charged with buying weapons to commit terrorist (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Terrorism) acts on behalf of the Libyan government. In 1987, Fort was tried and convicted for conspiring with Libya to perform acts of domestic terrorism by use of COINTELPRO type methods. He was sentenced to 80 years imprisonment and transferred to the USP Marion, the federal supermax prison in Marion, Illinois.[6] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-5)[7] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-6)[8] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-7) In 1988, Fort was also convicted of ordering the 1981 murder of a rival gang leader and was sentenced to 75 years in prison to be served after the completion of his terror conspiracy sentence.[9][10]

The Black P. Stone Nation now has a strong Islamic character, which can be attributed to the Moorish Science Temple of America (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Moorish_Science_Temple_of_America). BPS first started to embrace Islam in the late 1970s when Jeff Fort was released from prison and changed his name. He also renamed the Black P. Stones as El Rukn. El Rukn adopted their Islamic principles from the Moorish Science Temple - also the forerunner of black Muslim groups such as the Nation of Islam (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Nation_of_Islam) and the Five Percenters (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/The_Nation_of_Gods_and_Earths). They take inspiration from the historic black African Moors (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Moors) who came from north (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/North_Africa) and west Africa (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/West_Africa) and conquered Iberia (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Iberia) in the Middle Ages (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Middle_Ages), and who were Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_P._Stones <<<<< More Here!

Here ya go D.....Been awhile since I have been back in this world. Somethings have changed. Yet as with life some things remains the same. It's the one reason I was laughing over at PH when they tried to tell me I don't know anything about Muslims. I only lived with and around them for a 6 yr period 24/7 365 days a year. Went to gladiator school with many of them. Grew up around some of those neighborhoods. Know the differences as well. To most of them.

[Mister D]

Oh, I remember them now. They had an episode on this guy and gang. I remember the Libya trip.

[MMC]

Oh, I remember them now. They had an episode on this guy and gang. I remember the Libya trip.

I thought ya might once that bit with Fort and Gadhafi came out. Right then and there it split their Nation. When Fort was at Statesville Prison he would make any Stones drop that flag and ride El Rukn. Then the Rest would force any El Rukns to drop their Muslim and turn back to Stone.

The numbers by Wiki are wrong. Last known numbers were 70K. Not to mention the reason he was given the name Angel was due to the Cosa Nostra using him as a Laison to stop the street fighting and open killing of each other with all the Gangs. In the late 60S and Early 70's.