Turkey Retaliates Over French Genocide Bill

[Conley]

The Turkish prime minister has announced measures against France after MPs passed a bill criminalising denial of the 1915-16 Armenian "genocide".

Ankara is recalling its ambassador and freezing political visits as well as joint military projects, including exercises, Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

The bill was passed by the French National Assembly on Thursday and is due to go before the Senate next year.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe has publicly opposed it.

Under the bill, those publicly denying genocide would face a year in jail and a fine of 45,000 euros (£29,000; $58,000).

Armenians say up to 1.5 million people were killed by the Ottoman Turks in 1915-16.

Ankara says closer to 300,000 people died, and that Turks were also killed as Armenians rose up against the Ottoman Empire when Russian troops invaded eastern Anatolia, now eastern Turkey.

More than 20 countries have formally recognised the killings as genocide.

-SNIP-

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56093000/jpg/_56093923_56093922.jpgHugh SchofieldBBC News, Paris

The Armenia vote has provoked large amounts of sound and fury, but will this bill become law? For the time being the answer is quite clearly No.

The bill is the work of a collection of private members who have large numbers of Armenians in their constituencies, and has the tacit backing of President Sarkozy who on a recent visit to Armenia hinted that

France should legislate to make genocide denial illegal.

But everyone else in the French government thinks the bill is a diplomatic train wreck. They most emphatically do not want it to pass.

The bill will start out on a long procedural ramble through the Senate and back again to the Assembly; and then pshut! The lower house is dissolved in February, and it is back to square one.

So why all the fuss?

For electoral reasons it suits the bill's backers to make as much noise as possible, even if they know it has no chance of passing.

The Turks weren't going to take that lying down. And then ministers had to get involved in defence of French interests.

It has all indeed been a diplomatic disaster - all for a piece of law that will probably never even make it onto the statute books.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16306376

The plot thickens...

[Mister D]

France should legislate to make genocide denial illegal.

That's ridiculous but so is the Turkish refusal to admit what happened.

[MMC]

I guess if the Turks admit to it then they would have to make reparations to the Armenians.....huh? The Turks did tell them their would be consequences. Looks Like they kept their word.

[Mister D]

I guess if the Turks admit to it then they would have to make reparations to the Armenians.....huh? The Turks did tell them their would be consequences. Looks Like they kept their word.

I've never heard anything about reperations. Anything to side against the French...:rollseyes: What will consequences be? The Turks won't flood France with Turks? Oh no! :shocked:

[GRUMPY]

I've never heard anything about reperations. Anything to side against the French...:rollseyes: What will consequences be? The Turks won't flood France with Turks? Oh no! :shocked:

d, we don't speak of reparations here but that is exactly what american domestic policy has been since 1964.....

[Mister D]

It most certainly has. No argument here.

[MMC]

I've never heard anything about reperations. Anything to side against the French...:rollseyes: What will consequences be? The Turks won't flood France with Turks? Oh no! :shocked:

Well since Turkey is part of NATO.....refusing to cooperate in Military Excercises with France is one thing they are doing. Which does throw a little wrench into the mix of things now doesnt it?!! Concerning NATO and Cooperation of NATO Troops. U Know logistics and all that. Plus the French have troops in Afghanistan and I guess Turkey doesnt have to let France use their Airspace or Airfields. Pretty much telling the French to Take The Long Way Home!!!!!

Guess calling their Ambassador home and refusing to speak to any French Ambassdors also tends to create more strife with anothr Gateway of East Meets West.

[Mister D]

Well since Turkey is part of NATO.....refusing to cooperate in Military Excercises with France is one thing they are doing. Which does throw a little wrench into the mix of things now doesnt it?!! Concerning NATO and Cooperation of NATO Troops. U Know logistics and all that. Plus the French have troops in Afghanistan and I guess Turkey doesnt have to let France use their Airspace or Airfields. Pretty much telling the French to Take The Long Way Home!!!!!

Guess calling their Ambassador home and refusing to speak to any French Ambassdors also tends to create more strife with anothr Gateway of East Meets West.

If Turkey refuses to cooperate with NATO than Turkey will be kicked out of NATO and it can forget about ever getting into the E.U. Moreover, I'm sure the 3 French guys in Afghansitan will be able to get home just fine. lol

Not sure what it is with you and the French.

[MMC]

What are you telling me that Turkey has to take part of NATO excerises with France? Nothing can be further from the truth. Who is going to kick Turkey out of NATO? Again does this cause any sort of problems with the French in dealing with Turkey thru NATO or the UN? You act like this has no ramifications at all. Turkey don't have to train with France. They can train with the Brits. The Norwegians and or everybody else but the French. Moreover they can refuse to assist France without worrying about losing any NATO status. Which IMO has an affect on those operations. For how could it not if such involves their military armed forces.

Yes the French can get home okay. At additional cost for traveling out their way. So the French should be allowed to cause more strife by bringing up shit from WWI. Does any of it have to do with whats going today in the Middle East? Does it solve any of the problems that are taking place in that region of the World? Is France ready and willing to say they committed Genocide all across the globe wherever they went. Especially in the Carribean and North Africa. Shouldnt the French have to admit to their guilt?

What is it about the French that thinks they have the right make moves as if they are some SuperPower. That they can back up what they say when it is clear they cannot! Why is alright for France to adopt Communist and Socialistic ways and then advocate for Democracy. As if they are Championing Liberty, yet come up with ridicuolous laws such as this one. Why would anybody seek to back France and their NWO goals? Why would we listen to anything the French have to say when their goal is the systematic Europeanization of the World?

Wonder what happens when Turkeys says.....to hell with the EU. U know and adopts the same sort attitude over trade. Trades with all the other European Countires but France. Makes things difficult for France in all foreign affairs. Money talks bullshit walks. Turkey can throw money to other European Countries. France is broke and headed for the IMF bailout.

[Mister D]

MMC, most Europeans would like Turkey to give up her E.U. aspirations. If this results in that then this is a very good thing. Viva la France! Secondly, Turkey is a backwater. It's an economic threat to no one.

[Pendragon]

'Tis true, real Europe wants no part of Turkey. France, while it certainly has its problems, is the heart of Europe. Without France there is no Europe, there is only the United Kingdom and Germany.

[MMC]

Yeah, I really dont give a shit about Turkey getting into the Eu or wanting to. It's not like I consider them a power over us. Or that have any influence over us. Which you cannot say the same for France as it is clear they have influence over this Administration. They are just one country. Despite your beliefs on their economics. What changes the fact of France supporting communism and socialism? What changes the fact that France committed genocide just like the Turks did? What changes the fact that France knew this would create more strife with another Country in and around the Mid-East. But then went ahead and did it anyways.

Shouldnt anytime the French cry about others committing Genocide. That the point is brought home that they did the same. That if they want others to take responsibility for their actions then they must do the same damn thing. If anyone has the right to call out the Turks it's the Armenians not the French!

I am Sicillian.....I luv and like much of the Culture and where it all comes from. But if they were some backwater country like the French is.....then I would expect them to keep their mouths shut and not be stirrring shit up on that big map of things. I would expect for them to be put in their place and not be given free reign to cause any more problems than what there already is.

[Pendragon]

An American calling France a backwater country! Well done good sire, you have tickled my sense of humour. Now I remember why I find this website so entertaining.

[Pendragon]

Note that I have bestowed a "Thank You" upon thee!

[MMC]

An American calling France a backwater country! Well done good sire, you have tickled my sense of humour. Now I remember why I find this website so entertaining.

Well in truth Pen I mean so militarily. No reason for the French running around being hypocrits. It's not their Issue in the first place.

[Mister D]

French law isn't Turkey's. So there we are.

[MMC]

Nor is Turkey's law or their past.....Frances concern. Not to mention they shouldnt be sticking their noses into others buisness in the first place!

[Mister D]

No one said anything about Turkish law. So when a state commits genocide it's no one's business but their own?

[MMC]

No one said anything about Turkish law. So when a state commits genocide it's no one's business but their own?

Its not meant that way of not being a concern. But those who the act is committed upon would have first call. Certainly the French have no say nor the right to push the issue now. Are the Turks committing any genocide on the Armenians now? Have they done so in the last 20 or 30 years.

What gives the French the right to open their mouths about it now or to keep calling for Turkey to acknowledge such? Are the French standing on any righteous ground over this issue? Or is this the only excuse the French are using to keep Turkey out of the EU?

[Conley]

Isn't this just the case of a few French politicians running their mouths to appease their Armenian constituents?

Similar to say, Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton calling out slavery and racism to get black votes?

Just as Al Sharpton doesn't speak for all Americans I doubt these French pols speak for all of France.

[Mister D]

Again, I think the law is kind of silly but for Turkey to act as if this is some kind of grave offense is just as silly. So is their denial about what happened.

[Mister D]

Isn't this just the case of a few French politicians running their mouths to appease their Armenian constituents?

Similar to say, Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton calling out slavery and racism to get black votes?

Just as Al Sharpton doesn't speak for all Americans I doubt these French pols speak for all of France.


I doubt anyone really cares in France beyond a few PC kooks.

[Conley]

Well from what I read the French-Armenians are very into it. Maybe like the Cuban-Americans in Florida.

[Mister D]

Ah, that makes sense. I can't blame them.

[MMC]

Again, I think the law is kind of silly but for Turkey to act as if this is some kind of grave offense is just as silly. So is their denial about what happened.

You are right about one thing.....the creation of such a law is silly. Yet laws like these are a dedriment to the common good of all.

[Mister D]

You are right about one thing.....the creation of such a law is silly. Yet laws like these are a dedriment to the common good of all.

So is genocide. :wink:

[MMC]

Lets just hope the French wont cry about Kublai Khan and the Genocide he committed which makes all these others that any are talking about look like child's play. Althought the French just might do it as their wheeling and dealing with China in order to get the Chinese to give them some of that money and become part of the global economy, while helping the French avoid that IMF bailout coming their way!

[Mister D]

Kublai Khan!? :laugh:

Dude, all that hate for the French is a little weird, no?