Homeschoolers to Supreme Court

[patrickt]

"The Romeikes, a German family granted legal asylum in the United States by a U.S. immigration judge in 2010, will petition the Supreme Court to hear its case to be granted permanent legal status in the country. Uwe and Hannelore Romeike fled Germany after their family was vigorously prosecuted with steep fines, threats of loss of custody of their children, and imprisonment—all for homeschooling. Homeschooling is largely illegal in Germany."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/18/German-Homeschooling-Family-To-Petition-Supreme-Court-To-Halt-Deportation-By-Obama-Administration (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/18/German-Homeschooling-Family-To-Petition-Supreme-Court-To-Halt-Deportation-By-Obama-Administration)

I realize liberals oppose homeschooling but I'm pulling for this German family. It amazes me that the current administration wants to argue that Mexicans have a right to come to the U.S. but this German family can't. I wonder if the fact that this German family probably wouldn't vote for liberals in exchange for a cell phone is part of the problem.

The article ends with, "“The basic question here,” he summarized, “is are we going to stand for religious liberty, or not?”

In the U.S., today, that question has been answered by the administration in the negative.

[Agravan]

They should go to Canada and then cross the border illegally, then the liberals would embrace them.

[Adelaide]

They should go to Canada and then cross the border illegally, then the liberals would embrace them.

Or just go to Canada?

[patrickt]

I think they should go to the Supreme Court. President Obama wants to emulate his hero, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who sent Jewish refugees back to Hitler and everyone needs to try and stop him.

[Chloe]

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the homeschool law in Germany is a leftover law created by Nazi Germany, which would make sense since the education system for nazi germany was created to influence real indoctrination and not what people like to pretend is indoctrination in schools here in the US. Germany should change that law in my opinion though. I don't think that home schooling is the best way to educate kids but it should be a legal option for parents if done correctly.

[patrickt]

My son was taught in a public the holocaust never happened and that communism was the only political system with compassion. I wonder what "real" indoctrination would look like? Perhaps the teacher who told her students that people could go to prison for disrespecting the president was doing "real" indoctrination? Or, perhaps the teacher who told the little boy that if George Bush won the election, which he did, blacks would be sold into slavery, which they weren't?

[jillian]

My son was taught in a public the holocaust never happened and that communism was the only political system with compassion. I wonder what "real" indoctrination would look like? Perhaps the teacher who told her students that people could go to prison for disrespecting the president was doing "real" indoctrination? Or, perhaps the teacher who told the little boy that if George Bush won the election, which he did, blacks would be sold into slavery, which they weren't?

i don't believe you.

[Ravi]

My son was taught in a public the holocaust never happened and that communism was the only political system with compassion. I wonder what "real" indoctrination would look like? Perhaps the teacher who told her students that people could go to prison for disrespecting the president was doing "real" indoctrination? Or, perhaps the teacher who told the little boy that if George Bush won the election, which he did, blacks would be sold into slavery, which they weren't?I think you are lying.

[patrickt]

Two liberals denying reality. Two liberals with their fingers in their ears going yadayadayada. For liberals, as we've seen with the Zimmerman lynch mob, are exempt for reality and are free to live in a fantasy world.

Indoctrination is as regimented in public schools today in the U.S. as it was in Germany in 1935. Germany has laws against home schooling and liberals in the U.S. want laws against home schooling.

[Chloe]

My son was taught in a public the holocaust never happened and that communism was the only political system with compassion. I wonder what "real" indoctrination would look like? Perhaps the teacher who told her students that people could go to prison for disrespecting the president was doing "real" indoctrination? Or, perhaps the teacher who told the little boy that if George Bush won the election, which he did, blacks would be sold into slavery, which they weren't?

And hopefully that teacher got in trouble for that. I go to public school and not once did I ever have a teacher advocate for a specific system or deny the holocaust. In fact all of my history and political science teachers were fair in showing both sides and letting us make up our own minds. In my opinion the difference between us and indoctrination back in nazi germany is that here it is much more at random and is not dictated to districts through one single power, however, in nazi germany the indoctrination was dictated to advance nazism and hitler personally. Here it is a difference between a random teacher or school pushing an agenda and an entire education system being pushed by a dictator. It's obviously unacceptable for a teacher or school to push an agenda at the expense of a balanced education, but this country is not in the same league as true indoctrinated countries under dictatorship.

[Common]

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the homeschool law in Germany is a leftover law created by Nazi Germany, which would make sense since the education system for nazi germany was created to influence real indoctrination and not what people like to pretend is indoctrination in schools here in the US. Germany should change that law in my opinion though. I don't think that home schooling is the best way to educate kids but it should be a legal option for parents if done correctly.

I read something recently Chloe about Hitler and nazi germany destroying many educational artifacts, books institutions etc. Because of those acts the world gained by the loss of Scientists, Engineers, etc leaving germany for other parts of the world.
It also said that Germany just passed Home schooling in 2009 before that it was against the law.

[Common]

Ahh very interesting Homeschooling is STILL illegal in germany this german family was giving asylum in the USA because of that ban on homeschooling.
Read the text I enlarged

Homeschooling is still illegal in Germany with rare exceptions. The requirement to attend school has been upheld, on challenge from parents, by the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Constitutional_Court_of_Germany). Parents violating the laws have primarily or most prominently been Christians seeking a more religious education than that offered by the schools.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_international_status_and_statistics# cite_note-Spiegler-1)[52] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_international_status_and_statistics# cite_note-hslda-52) Sanctions against these parents have included fines of thousands of euros, successful legal actions to remove children from the parents' custody, and prison sentences.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_international_status_and_statistics# cite_note-Spiegler-1)[52] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_international_status_and_statistics# cite_note-hslda-52) It has been estimated that 600 to 1,000 German children are homeschooled, despite its illegality.[53] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_international_status_and_statistics# cite_note-53)

In a legal case commenced in 2003 at the European Court of Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights), a homeschooling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling) parent couple argued on behalf of their children that Germany's compulsory school attendance endangered their children's religious upbringing, promoted teaching inconsistent with their Christian faith–-especially the German State's mandates relating to sex education in the schools—and contravened the declaration in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Unio n) that "the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure education and teaching is in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions".
In September 2006, the European Court of Human Rights upheld the German ban on homeschooling, stating "parents may not refuse... [compulsory schooling] on the basis of their convictions", and adding that the right to education "calls for regulation by the State". The European Court took the position that the plaintiffs were the children, not their parents, and declared "children are unable to foresee the consequences of their parents' decision for home education because of their young age.... Schools represent society, and it is in the children's interest to become part of that society. The parents' right to educate does not go as far as to deprive their children of that experience."
The European Court endorsed a "carefully reasoned" decision of the German court concerning "the general interest of society to avoid the emergence of parallel societies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_society) based on separate philosophical convictions and the importance of integrating minorities into society."[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_international_status_and_statistics# cite_note-54)
In January 2010, a United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) immigration judge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_judge) granted asylum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_the_United_States) to a German homeschooling family, apparently based on this ban on homeschooling.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_international_status_and_statistics

[patrickt]

Chloe, ever heard of Common Core?
http://www.theblaze.com/news/common-core/

[Private Pickle]

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the homeschool law in Germany is a leftover law created by Nazi Germany, which would make sense since the education system for nazi germany was created to influence real indoctrination and not what people like to pretend is indoctrination in schools here in the US. Germany should change that law in my opinion though. I don't think that home schooling is the best way to educate kids but it should be a legal option for parents if done correctly.

Do you agree that there is some level of indoctrination in the public education system?

[Private Pickle]

Chloe, ever heard of Common Core?
http://www.theblaze.com/news/common-core/

Don't make me guess what article you want me to read...pick one and stick to it....

[RosieS]

Do you think Glenn Beck is practicing a HUGE level of indoctrination at the blaze.com? I do. I see his conservozombies on political fora everywhere.

Regards from Rosie

[Private Pickle]

Do you think Glenn Beck is practicing a HUGE level of indoctrination at the blaze.com? I do. I see his conservozombies on political fora everywhere.

Regards from Rosie

I guess the better question is: is the "blaze.com" = a huge level of indoctrination?

[patrickt]

Don't make me guess what article you want me to read...pick one and stick to it....

Sorry, I didn't realize you were Chloe. Perhaps indoctrination was what you needed.

[Ransom]

Do you think Glenn Beck is practicing a HUGE level of indoctrination at the blaze.com? I do. I see his conservozombies on political fora everywhere.

Regards from Rosie

Herdmember.

[patrickt]

Do you think Glenn Beck is practicing a HUGE level of indoctrination at the blaze.com? I do. I see his conservozombies on political fora everywhere.

Regards from Rosie

Gee, Rosie, are children required to attend Glenn Beck's indoctrination five days a week, 8 months a year? Are children forced to sit quietly and punished if they disagree with Glenn Beck? If you see a correlation between a Glenn Beck or a Chris Matthews or a Rachel Maddow or an Ed Schultz or an Al Sharpton and unionized federally controlled public schools then you are an amazing fantasist.

[nic34]

My son was taught in a public the holocaust never happened and that communism was the only political system with compassion.

Ok, show us which school, so I can tell them they are liars.

[Chloe]

Do you agree that there is some level of indoctrination in the public education system?

Yes of course but keep in mind that it's education to some people and indoctrination to others. I'm sure that there are plenty of people that believe that I am indoctrinated and they are educated. There is a fine line that is often impossible to see.

[nic34]

Do you agree that there is some level of indoctrination in the public education system?

All nations preach some form of nationalistic propaganda in schools.

So what? Teach what you want at home if you like I could care less.

3314

[Peter1469]

Yes of course but keep in mind that it's education to some people and indoctrination to others. I'm sure that there are plenty of people that believe that I am indoctrinated and they are educated. There is a fine line that is often impossible to see.

Or one could be both indoctrinated and educated.

I just finished Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie- very different), so that is where I got that idea from.

[jillian]

Chloe, ever heard of Common Core?
http://www.theblaze.com/news/common-core/

funny that you want to discuss "indoctrination" while linking to a site famous for extremist propaganda.

i have to give you a thumbs up on the irony factor.

[Ransom]

But in fairness Jillian, you refuse to link to your sources of indoctrination. Now on record with a "counter to everything I know", reality is in fact counter to what you've been indoctrinated with.

[patrickt]

All nations preach some form of nationalistic propaganda in schools.

So what? Teach what you want at home if you like I could care less.

3314

But, but, leftists want to make home schooling illegal. Leftists don't want children raised without government indoctrination. In Germany, no public school and home schooling is illegal. If the left gets their way, it will be in the U.S., too.

Jillian, you are so tiresome. I simply googled "Common Core" and gave a citation. I realize it's something you can't do and don't understand so you have to whine and thrash around as if you actually had something to say. But, you do try, poor thing.

[nic34]

But, but, leftists want to make home schooling illegal. Leftists don't want children raised without government indoctrination.

"leftists" don't want tax dollars supporting private, religious, and homeschooling at the expense of the education of the rest of (most) Americans.

I have absolutely no problem with folks that want to teach anything they want to their kids.

Less competition for the rest of us.

[roadmaster]

My son was taught in a public the holocaust never happened and that communism was the only political system with compassion. I wonder what "real" indoctrination would look like? Perhaps the teacher who told her students that people could go to prison for disrespecting the president was doing "real" indoctrination? Or, perhaps the teacher who told the little boy that if George Bush won the election, which he did, blacks would be sold into slavery, which they weren't?

I believe you because some say they died of a typhoid mostly. You will always get teachers opinions but school should only be there to learn basic skills and not the opinions of teachers.

[Mainecoons]

Unfortunately, the testing results of these unionized hacks that call themselves teachers these days show that a very large group of them don't know basic skills themselves. So how the heck are they going to teach what they don't know?

Nope, a lot easier to teach false self esteem and leftist indoctrination than the 3 Rs.

[patrickt]

"leftists" don't want tax dollars supporting private, religious, and homeschooling at the expense of the education of the rest of (most) Americans.

I have absolutely no problem with folks that want to teach anything they want to their kids.

Less competition for the rest of us.

Leftists want all children in care of the state from pre-school on. Leftists object to any schools that are not totally under control of the liberals. Consider President Obama's attack on Catholic schools. Not only do they not get tax monies but the parents of their students still have to pay taxes to support the indoctrination of other children.

I also realize you're willingness to allow a person such as myself to teach my children what I want is only temporary. I didn't do full-time home-schooling, which leftists hate, but I did teach my children at home. I had to counteract the indoctrination from schools. Leftists will, if they can, stop "subversive" teaching in the home. Who knows, the schools might even started asking kids what their parents are teaching them? What? Too late?

[patrickt]

I believe you because some say they died of a typhoid mostly. You will always get teachers opinions but school should only be there to learn basic skills and not the opinions of teachers.

See? He could be a school teacher. I'm sure the "showers" were just to disinfect victims and the ovens were for the popular family cookouts.

I lean towards basic skills, too, but consider things like geography, history, and science worthwhile if taught without a political agenda.

[pstein]

I lean towards basic skills, too, but consider things like geography, history, and science worthwhile if taught without a political agenda.

This is my first post here, and I agree with you. However, the teaching of history and geography is typically taught with a biased agenda. I have a good historical background, though I don't know whether or not I'll major in it. About 2 years ago, I was told that the foreign policy during westward expansion was basically "ethnic cleansing." The guy teaching, of course, was so left wing that he might as well be a pinko.

Science is almost never taught without a political agenda either. Half of the stuff taught about "the environment" is just global warming alarmists taking their political agendas out to a school.

[Mainecoons]

We didn't have this kind of crap for teaching in my day. You are going to have to get a lot of your own education on your own, if you want to really be educated and not like some of the folks you're going to see on this board. Fortunately, the internet is a very powerful tool for look up and reading if you learn to sort out the rants and rhetoric from the dispassionate and empirical.

Welcome to the group.

[patrickt]

This is my first post here, and I agree with you. However, the teaching of history and geography is typically taught with a biased agenda. I have a good historical background, though I don't know whether or not I'll major in it. About 2 years ago, I was told that the foreign policy during westward expansion was basically "ethnic cleansing." The guy teaching, of course, was so left wing that he might as well be a pinko.

Science is almost never taught without a political agenda either. Half of the stuff taught about "the environment" is just global warming alarmists taking their political agendas out to a school.

Perhaps in your lifetime. When I was in school we learned to take a blank map with state outlines and write in the names of all the states and their capitals. We learned to do the same with countries in Europe. We learned major industries, populations, and so forth. Now, kids learn in geography that Europe was racist, Africa was raped, but they can't find their own country on a map without names already printed and big red arrows.

As for history, most young people seem to have trouble finding a 50-year period during which we had what was called the Civil War.They can't name the countries who were allies with the U.S. in WWII and which were allies of Germany and hardly anyone knows that the USSR and France were allies of both.

Because the liberals have used every subject for indoctrination doesn't mean it can't be taught in a politically neutral manner. When I talk about the civics classes I had in school I get a blank look from young people now.

Yes, there was some political indoctrination when I went to school but nothing like my kids got and then it was worse with their kids. I was taught that Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves in the U.S. and was an adult before I learned that was a lie.