Move to Canada or Europe for the American Dream

[jgreer]

Isnt this what youve been saying Pen??

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45883052/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

Even a shout out to National Review which Dee loves so much


They all agree the American Dream is Dead!

[jgreer]

This should get you guys posting LOL

[Mister D]

Why?

[Conley]

I think part of it is the cost of a college degree. It has gotten so much more expensive than it used to be, and you still need a college degree (IMO) to get a job that has the potential of upward mobility. Sure you can skip college, learn a trade and one that pays well, but your salary at 30 won't be that different from your salary at 55.

[Mister D]

European states are deeply in debt as well. All that free education has to be paid for. Moreover, Europeans nations don't import poor, unskilled, and uneducated people to anything near thre degree that the US does.

[Conley]

Well we agree they have their own immigration problems. I'm not sure how much of their debt is due to education, but I would bet that 'investment' in their society pays off a lot better than social services for immigrants who are there only for the free rides. Illegals are a problem here for sure but I'd rather have ours than theirs.

[Mister D]

Well we agree they have their own immigration problems. I'm not sure how much of their debt is due to education, but I would bet that 'investment' in their society pays off a lot better than social services for immigrants who are there only for the free rides. Illegals are a problem here for sure but I'd rather have ours than theirs.

i think most of their debt is due to social services including education.

In terms of sheer volume we have a more severe migration problem and it doesn;t matter if they are willing to work. It's skewing the stats we're talking about and, worst of all, their upward mobility is in question. There are discouraging signs with poor academic performance being one.

[jgreer]

Why?


Why what?

[Mister D]

Why do you think this would excite us? Better still, why does it excite you>?

[jgreer]

It is news and it is interesting. If you don't like it don't comment simple?

I try to start a discussion and you don't like it then fine

[Mister D]

It is news and it is interesting. If you don't like it don't comment simple?

I try to start a discussion and you don't like it then fine


We're discussing it. You seem kind of amused by the failure of the American Dream. Why is that?

[jgreer]

Why do you think I am saying it is funny?

Exactly the opposite I wish people had more of a chance here

[Mister D]

Why do you think I am saying it is funny?

Exactly the opposite I wish people had more of a chance here


You're first couple of comments made you seem excited. Almost tickled pink by the whole idea.

[jgreer]

I already told you thats not true

[Mister D]

You asked why I thought so. I told you. Anyway, you can't really compare relatively small and homogeneous European states with the US. Apples and oranges.

[MMC]

Should people be allowed to have Dual Citizenship in todays world? :undecided: This is one of things I don't care for that many Canadians do. :angry:

[Pendragon]

There is no doubt that upward mobility is much easier in Europe.

The "American Dream" is simply a fallacy designed to convince the gullible and poverty stricken that their fleecing is all part of a Darwinian process.

[Pendragon]

Should people be allowed to have Dual Citizenship in todays world? :undecided: This is one of things I don't care for that many Canadians do. :angry:

It does not concern me in the slightest.

[MMC]

It does not concern me in the slightest.

Why is that Pen? Don't you think that they should identify themselves with the country they are part of. Prime example with the Canadians.....anywhere in the world they travel to that is problem country for the West. If shit hits the fan they will say they are a Canadian Citizen. Yet anywhere's else in the World they have no problem touting that they are an American Citizen. So where is their Allegiance to?

[MMC]

There is no doubt that upward mobility is much easier in Europe.

The "American Dream" is simply a fallacy designed to convince the gullible and poverty stricken that their fleecing is all part of a Darwinian process.


Yeah, we did notice how like with the UK they pass that Upward mobility around. What when the Queen says she knights someone and or some Self Called Noble marries what they call a Commoner. Looks like all those Riots in the UK were showing how it is so great to move up into another social environment within the UK Society.

[Captain Obvious]

Yes, you're right. Nothing left here, barren wasteland for opportunity.

You better get packing.

[Pendragon]

Why is that Pen? Don't you think that they should identify themselves with the country they are part of. Prime example with the Canadians.....anywhere in the world they travel to that is problem country for the West. If shit hits the fan they will say they are a Canadian Citizen. Yet anywhere's else in the World they have no problem touting that they are an American Citizen. So where is their Allegiance to?

Perhaps you should take a step back and consider the larger issue: why Americans are so universally disliked?

[Pendragon]

Yes, you're right. Nothing left here, barren wasteland for opportunity.

You better get packing.

Here is one example, if it pleases the court. The arrogance is overwhelming. Arrogance based on foolishness.

[Captain Obvious]

Here is one example, if it pleases the court. The arrogance is overwhelming. Arrogance based on foolishness.

From where I stand, I see plenty of opportunity. I'm not standing by a fucking tent in central park either.

That's because there's plenty of opportunity. You just have to open your fucking eyes and extend your arms out to grasp it. That's too much work, complaining and surveying the grass on the other side of the fence is easier.

http://gocanada.about.com/od/faqscrossingtheborde1/p/border_tips.htm

Don't let opportunity hit you in the ass on the way out.

[Pendragon]

Perhaps you could discuss the article (assuming you even bothered to read it) rather than insisting upon my departure.

You may not like the facts but all your insistence does not change them one whit. Do you have a rebuttal?

[Captain Obvious]

Perhaps you could discuss the article (assuming you even bothered to read it) rather than insisting upon my departure.

You may not like the facts but all your insistence does not change them one whit. Do you have a rebuttal?

Here's what do.

You posted the article, why don't you outline why YOU think it has merit and I'll rebut if I feel so inspired.

I perused the article - twice. Didn't take me long to determine that it was fairly long winded and pointedly rabble rousing. You know people gobble that shit up, that's why they print it.

I note that the thread, all 3 pages of it doesn't delve into the points of that article except for a brief discussion of the cost of education, and D rightly debunked the "free education" myth by pointing out that the reason many "free education" countries are in the economic shitpile they're in is because of gubmint funded freebies.

One thing that wasn't pointed out (or I missed it) is that countries like Canada that provide free shit like education also tax the shit out of you. Buy gas, or cigarettes or a case of beer in Canada. Think NY state, it's similar there.

[MMC]

Perhaps you should take a step back and consider the larger issue: why Americans are so universally disliked?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1b8w7oIuC8

Perhaps those who believe such.....should be discussing with themselves and asking themselves the question of......When Reality Use to Be a friend of Mine!

Then remember such when they decide that coming to live here in the US has been their only goal in life!

As well as if their country should ever go to War with the US. Because then there is no mistaken the fact. If one says they are American Citizen while we war against their Home Country and while they are a citizen of their home county. Then they are in fact a traitor to their own people!!!!!

[Mister D]

NYC is a killer. It's like having two state tax deductions. We've had a lot of NYC clients over the years and I'm still stunned when I actually examine their checks.

The European welfare state is simply unsustainable. Now you can argue that not having enough kids or whatever compounded the problem but it's moot. The reality is that those generous entitlements are no longer sustainable. Mind you, I have no quarrel with how Europeans spend their wealth. I'm just stating the facts.

[MMC]

NYC is a killer. It's like having two state tax deductions. We've had a lot of NYC clients over the years and I'm still stunned when I actually examine their checks.

The European welfare state is simply unsustainable. Now you can argue that not having enough kids or whatever compounded the problem but it's moot. The reality is that those generous entitlements are no longer sustainable. Mind you, I have no quarrel with how Europeans spend their wealth. I'm just stating the facts.

Any problem with them spending other people's wealth? :wink:

[roadmaster]

Don't think I will move to Canada. They are just starting their recession. With 7.8% unemployment not including the ones that have lost their benefits. Even the Tar Sands if approved, China has mining rights and most likely will bring their own workers in. They are losing full-time jobs every month and replacing half them with low paying temp jobs. Also they have a bad immigration problem and it's getting worse and draining their economy.

I think most of them now understand why Americans complain about illegals.

[Conley]

I'm not disagreeing with you but California would love to have 7.8% unemployment. We're way above that now. :sad:

[roadmaster]

I'm not disagreeing with you but California would love to have 7.8% unemployment. We're way above that now. :sad:
No doubt. It's bad everywhere. Around me there used to be 8 manufacturing companies and all are closed down and went overseas. We should not give tax breaks to companies until they come here and employ people. Giving tax incentives before just a waste of taxpayers money only to see them expand overseas.

[Conley]

Yep, that reminds me of Obama appointing GE's CEO as a Jobs Adviser when he's bilked the government out of millions and moved a huge percentage of jobs overseas.

[roadmaster]

Obama and a lot of them in office don't have a clue. Even in the private sector we know better than to pay a construction team in full before they even start. Why, they may never come back or not finish because they already have their money. Giving bail-outs and watching them hold onto the money, expanding overseas, they should be held accountable and we should have never gave them all the money at once until we see what they were going to do with the money first.

[wingrider]

Costa Rica.. nuff said

[Conley]

Costa Rica.. nuff said

Yep it is very appealing. My only concern about places like that is the health care.

[wingrider]

Yep it is very appealing. My only concern about places like that is the health care.


not to worry on that score they have pretty good health care there.

http://www.costaricarealtyone.com/HealthcareinCR.htm

[Conley]

"Costa Rican Life expectancy is 76 years for men and 79.8 years for women, both longer than in the United States. The infant mortality rate in Costa Rica is less than that in the United States. The United Nations consistently ranks Costa Rica’s public health system in the top 20 worldwide and the best in Latin America."

Wow.

[Captain Obvious]

Oddly, there are no traffic jams to Costa Rica.

Like Canada, probably a nice place to visit though.

Canada is America's attic. Great place to check out and rummage through the great stuff that you forgot about, but you don't want to live there.

[Mister D]

"Costa Rican Life expectancy is 76 years for men and 79.8 years for women, both longer than in the United States. The infant mortality rate in Costa Rica is less than that in the United States. The United Nations consistently ranks Costa Rica’s public health system in the top 20 worldwide and the best in Latin America."

Wow.

It's 80% white. I always thought it was a typical Latin American crap hole but it's more like Argentina and Chile than Nicaragua or Bolivia.

[Mister D]

My friend's FiL was always talking about moving to Belize because of George Bush. What a freak that guy is. :laugh:

[Conley]

Funny, I thought of Belize as an exception to the Latin American Craphole stereotype you mentioned and I was envisioning. It sounds pretty nice.

[wingrider]

It's 80% white. I always thought it was a typical Latin American crap hole but it's more like Argentina and Chile than Nicaragua or Bolivia.

it is even better than that folks.

first it is a republic and here is a lot of information including their Constitution..
http://www.therealcostarica.com/government_costa_rica/constitution_costa_rica.html