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KC
08-19-2013, 07:08 PM
Recently, NJ Gov. Chris Christie signed a law banning "gay conversion therapy", or sending homosexual teens to licensed therapists in order to make them straight. You can read more about that here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/chris-christie-gay-conversion-therapy_n_3778948.html

How do you feel about gay conversion therapy? Is it parents looking out for the spiritual well being of their children or is it child abuse? Should it be banned, as it is now in NJ? Is this something where the state should have a say, even if it is unethical?

Chris
08-19-2013, 07:09 PM
It doesn't work. Wishful thinking.

Chloe
08-19-2013, 07:11 PM
Recently, NJ Gov. Chris Christie signed a law banning "gay conversion therapy", or sending homosexual teens to licensed therapists in order to make them straight. You can be more about that here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/chris-christie-gay-conversion-therapy_n_3778948.html

How do you feel about gay conversion therapy? Is it parents looking out for the spiritual well being of their children or is it child abuse? Should it be banned, as it is now in NJ? Is this something where the state should have a say, even if it is unethical?

I personally think gay conversion classes are wrong. I think kids that realize they are gay need support and love from their famoly and not sent to a place that says that they are broken in some way and need to be fixed so that they are normal or don't burn in hell. But that's just me.

Common
08-19-2013, 07:15 PM
My wife was watching a crime show about a gorgeous and very wealthy 40 yr old lesbian, who pursued a 20 year old straight woman relentlessly, the young woman steadfastly refused relations and told her she was straight. So the lesbian said lets be friends. She lavished the young woman with gifts and trips to the bahamas and such, when all else failed she introduced her to ecstasy and plied her with alcohol to break down her inhibitions and had sex with her. She kept the young woman plied with gifts, trips an apt ecstasy cocaine and drugs. This went on for a few months and finally the young woman told her no more I am NOT GAY I cant do this and refused any more gifts and moved out of the apt. The lesbian brutally murdered her. Mind you this was not a dykey looking woman she was gorgeous and dressed quite sexxy and expensive.
I truly believe some women are coerced into same sex relationships.

KC
08-19-2013, 07:15 PM
It doesn't work. Wishful thinking.

I agree, but I don't know if it really constitutes abuse. I mean, I think that parents should look out for their children's best interest, and those parents probably think they are doing so. In any case while I don't think it is likely to work, and don't approve of the practice, I have reservations about banning it. It should be up to parents, who are going to have to deal with becoming estranged from their children who aren't going to feel as they do about this.

Max Rockatansky
08-19-2013, 07:19 PM
It doesn't work. Wishful thinking.

Agreed. It's brainwashing trying to convert someone into being something they are not. It works as well as trying to convert a straight into becoming gay.

Shoot the Goose
08-19-2013, 07:40 PM
My wife was watching a crime show about a gorgeous and very wealthy 40 yr old lesbian, who pursued a 20 year old straight woman relentlessly, the young woman steadfastly refused relations and told her she was straight. So the lesbian said lets be friends. She lavished the young woman with gifts and trips to the bahamas and such, when all else failed she introduced her to ecstasy and plied her with alcohol to break down her inhibitions and had sex with her. She kept the young woman plied with gifts, trips an apt ecstasy cocaine and drugs. This went on for a few months and finally the young woman told her no more I am NOT GAY I cant do this and refused any more gifts and moved out of the apt. The lesbian brutally murdered her. Mind you this was not a dykey looking woman she was gorgeous and dressed quite sexxy and expensive.
I truly believe some women are coerced into same sex relationships.

Is there a sexual preference out there that doesn't have a few horror stories worthy of a crime show like that ? The answer is a huge "NO".

Sexual conversion therapy is a massively misguided protocol. Good for Christie being a Conservative who is non-beholden enough to call it what it is .............. grossly misguided and destructive parenting. I would submit that such therapy fucked-up more things than it ever made better.

Dr. Who
08-19-2013, 07:42 PM
My wife was watching a crime show about a gorgeous and very wealthy 40 yr old lesbian, who pursued a 20 year old straight woman relentlessly, the young woman steadfastly refused relations and told her she was straight. So the lesbian said lets be friends. She lavished the young woman with gifts and trips to the bahamas and such, when all else failed she introduced her to ecstasy and plied her with alcohol to break down her inhibitions and had sex with her. She kept the young woman plied with gifts, trips an apt ecstasy cocaine and drugs. This went on for a few months and finally the young woman told her no more I am NOT GAY I cant do this and refused any more gifts and moved out of the apt. The lesbian brutally murdered her. Mind you this was not a dykey looking woman she was gorgeous and dressed quite sexxy and expensive.
I truly believe some women are coerced into same sex relationships.

Hmmm. TV. Most of the lesbians I know would not fit the description that you describe. The lesbians that I have met/know are either fairly ordinary ladies or they tend to go out of their way not to look feminine. I do know women who became lesbians because of sexual abuse at the hands of males, but who eventually met a guy they could trust and married. Female sexuality is somewhat more fluid than male sexuality. Perhaps it is because all mammals start life as females and later differentiate into male and female.

Dr. Who
08-19-2013, 07:45 PM
I personally think gay conversion classes are wrong. I think kids that realize they are gay need support and love from their famoly and not sent to a place that says that they are broken in some way and need to be fixed so that they are normal or don't burn in hell. But that's just me.

I don't think you can reprogram sexual identity and trying to do so causes extreme psychological issues which often results in suicide.

Chris
08-19-2013, 07:45 PM
I agree, but I don't know if it really constitutes abuse. I mean, I think that parents should look out for their children's best interest, and those parents probably think they are doing so. In any case while I don't think it is likely to work, and don't approve of the practice, I have reservations about banning it. It should be up to parents, who are going to have to deal with becoming estranged from their children who aren't going to feel as they do about this.

Yes, not sure it's abuse. Just that science says it's nonsense.

What you're describing sounds almost like what would happen back in 60s, 70s, I think it was called snapping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapping:_America's_Epidemic_of_Sudden_Personality _Change.

Common
08-19-2013, 09:45 PM
Is there a sexual preference out there that doesn't have a few horror stories worthy of a crime show like that ? The answer is a huge "NO".

Sexual conversion therapy is a massively misguided protocol. Good for Christie being a Conservative who is non-beholden enough to call it what it is .............. grossly misguided and destructive parenting. I would submit that such therapy fucked-up more things than it ever made better.

I dont believe sex conversion therapy works and I think its ridiculous

Common
08-19-2013, 09:46 PM
Hmmm. TV. Most of the lesbians I know would not fit the description that you describe. The lesbians that I have met/know are either fairly ordinary ladies or they tend to go out of their way not to look feminine. I do know women who became lesbians because of sexual abuse at the hands of males, but who eventually met a guy they could trust and married. Female sexuality is somewhat more fluid than male sexuality. Perhaps it is because all mammals start life as females and later differentiate into male and female.

I think theres more than you know, you cant know you arent an object in their sights

Dr. Who
08-19-2013, 09:53 PM
I think theres more than you know, you cant know you arent an object in their sightsThere are always outliers, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

LogCabinRepublican
09-13-2013, 04:00 AM
I support Governor Christie because he represents the futire of conservatism and its about time the party crawls out of the stone age.
Recently, NJ Gov. Chris Christie signed a law banning "gay conversion therapy", or sending homosexual teens to licensed therapists in order to make them straight. You can read more about that here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/chris-christie-gay-conversion-therapy_n_3778948.html

How do you feel about gay conversion therapy? Is it parents looking out for the spiritual well being of their children or is it child abuse? Should it be banned, as it is now in NJ? Is this something where the state should have a say, even if it is unethical?

LogCabinRepublican
09-13-2013, 04:03 AM
Well I can assure you that Im a very masculine man who prefers other masculine men basically Im a man for maen and I prefer real manly men.
Hmmm. TV. Most of the lesbians I know would not fit the description that you describe. The lesbians that I have met/know are either fairly ordinary ladies or they tend to go out of their way not to look feminine. I do know women who became lesbians because of sexual abuse at the hands of males, but who eventually met a guy they could trust and married. Female sexuality is somewhat more fluid than male sexuality. Perhaps it is because all mammals start life as females and later differentiate into male and female.

jillian
09-13-2013, 05:17 AM
Recently, NJ Gov. Chris Christie signed a law banning "gay conversion therapy", or sending homosexual teens to licensed therapists in order to make them straight. You can read more about that here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/chris-christie-gay-conversion-therapy_n_3778948.html

How do you feel about gay conversion therapy? Is it parents looking out for the spiritual well being of their children or is it child abuse? Should it be banned, as it is now in NJ? Is this something where the state should have a say, even if it is unethical?

it's pointless and mean-spirited...

and doesn't work.

zelmo1234
09-13-2013, 06:03 AM
I agree, but I don't know if it really constitutes abuse. I mean, I think that parents should look out for their children's best interest, and those parents probably think they are doing so. In any case while I don't think it is likely to work, and don't approve of the practice, I have reservations about banning it. It should be up to parents, who are going to have to deal with becoming estranged from their children who aren't going to feel as they do about this.

I think that this describes pretty much how I feel, but I have an Issue with the Gay conversion Name?

So I would put it this way, If a State were to mandate Cay Conversion Therapy? I would be totally against that!! But if parents thought it would be a good idea for a child to receive counseling, to make sure that there is not something other than their own conclusion going on? ( child being molested and told he or she was gay by a relative or other adult) for example? I am not opposed to that.

But why does it have to have a name attached to it? That seems kind of Stupid?

jillian
09-13-2013, 07:18 AM
I agree, but I don't know if it really constitutes abuse. I mean, I think that parents should look out for their children's best interest, and those parents probably think they are doing so. In any case while I don't think it is likely to work, and don't approve of the practice, I have reservations about banning it. It should be up to parents, who are going to have to deal with becoming estranged from their children who aren't going to feel as they do about this.

it is abusive because you are a) telling someone that what they are should be changed and can be changed, when it can't. b) you are telling that person, often a young person (since older gays would laugh in your face if you tried to tell them that they should "change") that there is something wrong with them. they are being told this by their parents (or they wouldn't be forced into pray away the gay BS), by their churches and by their communities. imo, that's emotionally abusive....especially knowing that the "therapy" doesn't work and only undermines the individual.

and mostly... THIS is why:


Researchers have found that suicide among lesbian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Lesbian), gay (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Gay), bisexual (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Bisexual), transgender (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Transgender) (LGBT (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/LGBT)) youth is comparatively higher than among the general population. LGBT teens and young adults have one of the highest rates of suicide attempts (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Failed_suicide_attempt).[1] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-Natpublic-1) Depression (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Depression_(mood)) and drug use among LGBT people have both been shown to increase significantly after new laws that discriminate against gay people are passed.[2] (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#cite_note-2) Bullying (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Bullying) of LGBT youth has been shown to be a contributing factor in many suicides, even if not all of the attacks have been specifically addressing sexuality or gender.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

when you pretend that they can "change", you give license to bullies and creeps to denigrate and abuse them for being what they are.

Chris
09-13-2013, 09:15 AM
it is abusive because you are a) telling someone that what they are should be changed and can be changed, when it can't. b) you are telling that person, often a young person (since older gays would laugh in your face if you tried to tell them that they should "change") that there is something wrong with them. they are being told this by their parents (or they wouldn't be forced into pray away the gay BS), by their churches and by their communities. imo, that's emotionally abusive....especially knowing that the "therapy" doesn't work and only undermines the individual.

and mostly... THIS is why:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

when you pretend that they can "change", you give license to bullies and creeps to denigrate and abuse them for being what they are.



a) and b) are not abusive. When you post that someone is wrong are you being abusive?

c), what you copy from elsewhere, is somewhat true.

ptif219
09-13-2013, 09:24 AM
I personally think gay conversion classes are wrong. I think kids that realize they are gay need support and love from their famoly and not sent to a place that says that they are broken in some way and need to be fixed so that they are normal or don't burn in hell. But that's just me.

Then I guess you feel the same about drug treatment.

jillian
09-13-2013, 09:25 AM
Then I guess you feel the same about drug treatment.

addiction is an illness. homosexuality isn't. but thanks for proving why you shouldn't be allowed to torture these people with "conversion therapy".

ptif219
09-13-2013, 09:26 AM
I support Governor Christie because he represents the futire of conservatism and its about time the party crawls out of the stone age.

Christie is a liberal and should just change parties since he acts like a democrat

Chris
09-13-2013, 09:26 AM
addiction is an illness. homosexuality isn't. but thanks for proving why you shouldn't be allowed to torture these people with "conversion therapy".



Actually by the a) and b) reasons for abuse that you gave earlier, he is correct in his assessment.

ptif219
09-13-2013, 09:27 AM
it is abusive because you are a) telling someone that what they are should be changed and can be changed, when it can't. b) you are telling that person, often a young person (since older gays would laugh in your face if you tried to tell them that they should "change") that there is something wrong with them. they are being told this by their parents (or they wouldn't be forced into pray away the gay BS), by their churches and by their communities. imo, that's emotionally abusive....especially knowing that the "therapy" doesn't work and only undermines the individual.

and mostly... THIS is why:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

when you pretend that they can "change", you give license to bullies and creeps to denigrate and abuse them for being what they are.

Then I guess alcohol treatment is bad to

ptif219
09-13-2013, 09:27 AM
addiction is an illness. homosexuality isn't. but thanks for proving why you shouldn't be allowed to torture these people with "conversion therapy".

BS it is the same thing.

nic34
09-13-2013, 09:29 AM
BS it is the same thing.

Cite?

Chloe
09-13-2013, 09:39 AM
Then I guess you feel the same about drug treatment.

Drug abuse and being gay aren't really that comparable in my opinion but my beliefs about drugs and drug abuse is that if someone is addicted to drugs then they still need love and support from their family and friends in order to improve along with therapy if need be. If faith helps them get off of drugs then I'm ok with that too but it can't be forced. You can't become addicted to something that you don't try, and so with drugs I think education and family support are huge when it comes to not getting onto drugs in the first place.

jillian
09-13-2013, 09:40 AM
BS it is the same thing.

not outside the bubble, it isn't.

Chris
09-13-2013, 10:07 AM
Drug abuse and being gay aren't really that comparable in my opinion but my beliefs about drugs and drug abuse is that if someone is addicted to drugs then they still need love and support from their family and friends in order to improve along with therapy if need be. If faith helps them get off of drugs then I'm ok with that too but it can't be forced. You can't become addicted to something that you don't try, and so with drugs I think education and family support are huge when it comes to not getting onto drugs in the first place.



But they could be. Addiction could be something inherited and wired into you. See for example, Some Teens May Be Pre-Wired for Addiction: Study (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/04/30/some-teens-may-be-pre-wired-for-addiction-study/).

Similarly, you do have the choice to act on it or not.

ptif219
09-13-2013, 10:08 AM
Cite?

So you think Homosexuality is different than sexual addiction? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_thinking.gif

http://www.ericgarnersetfree.com/addictivebehavior.html


http://overcomerstestify.com/2012/05/20/ex-lesbian-talks-about-how-god-saved-her-from-homosexuality-and-an-addiction-to-alcohol-and-drugs/

ptif219
09-13-2013, 10:10 AM
Drug abuse and being gay aren't really that comparable in my opinion but my beliefs about drugs and drug abuse is that if someone is addicted to drugs then they still need love and support from their family and friends in order to improve along with therapy if need be. If faith helps them get off of drugs then I'm ok with that too but it can't be forced. You can't become addicted to something that you don't try, and so with drugs I think education and family support are huge when it comes to not getting onto drugs in the first place.

They are both choices. You choose to be gay same as a person choose to have an affair

Chloe
09-13-2013, 10:12 AM
But they could be. Addiction could be something inherited and wired into you. See for example, Some Teens May Be Pre-Wired for Addiction: Study (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/04/30/some-teens-may-be-pre-wired-for-addiction-study/).

Similarly, you do have the choice to act on it or not.

No I don't doubt that some people could be more prone to addiction than others but the fact still remains that if you don't try drugs then you won't become addicted to them in my opinion.

Chloe
09-13-2013, 10:13 AM
They are both choices. You choose to be gay same as a person choose to have an affair

Whether being gay is a choice or not is up for debate, but doing crack or something like that is completely by choice.

nic34
09-13-2013, 10:13 AM
Those are religion based examples that have no basis in scientific fact.

ptif219
09-13-2013, 10:18 AM
not outside the bubble, it isn't.

They are both choices.

ptif219
09-13-2013, 10:19 AM
Those are religion based examples that have no basis in scientific fact.

Then you did not read the first one. The second is a testimonial of a woman that gave up her addictions including be a lesbian

Chris
09-13-2013, 10:29 AM
No I don't doubt that some people could be more prone to addiction than others but the fact still remains that if you don't try drugs then you won't become addicted to them in my opinion.

But you would still have what's called an addictive personality.

nic34
09-13-2013, 10:48 AM
They are both choices. You choose to be gay same as a person choose to have an affair

Did you choose to be heterosexual?

ptif219
09-13-2013, 10:58 AM
Did you choose to be heterosexual?

Yes I choose to have a wife. I also choose to sleep only with her for over 19 years. I also chose to stop using drugs and quit smoking

Chris
09-13-2013, 11:01 AM
Did you choose to be heterosexual?



You're confusing sexual orientation and sexual activity.

Max Rockatansky
11-27-2013, 07:03 AM
Yes I choose to have a wife. I also choose to sleep only with her for over 19 years. I also chose to stop using drugs and quit smoking

The question was "Did you choose to be a heterosexual?" not what are your choices in sexual activity. You could be a homosexual who chooses to live straight.

It's why some men, after being married 30 years suddenly divorce their wives and "turn gay". They didn't turn. They just admitted they were homosexuals and chose to act out their true sexual preferences.

Common
11-27-2013, 07:21 AM
My positon is always unpopular, oh well. I believe men do not suddenly decide to be gay, they have it in them.

Women on the other hand I believe can choose to be with another female.

I dont think conversion therapy works or makes sense. I dont think gay marriage makes a bit of sense either.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 08:27 AM
Women on the other hand I believe can choose to be with another female.


Yes they can. It's pretty awesome.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 10:28 AM
My positon is always unpopular, oh well. I believe men do not suddenly decide to be gay, they have it in them.

Women on the other hand I believe can choose to be with another female.

I dont think conversion therapy works or makes sense. I dont think gay marriage makes a bit of sense either.

Gay marriage makes as much sense as any other marriage. Two people who fall in love and make a commitment to be family to each other. It's as perfectly natural as being left handed.

The left hand used to be considered the "hand of the devil" and the right hand the "hand of God." Left handed people were forced to write with their right hands because of that prejudice.

Conversion therapy, which is based on junk science, is just another prejudicial practice.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 11:51 AM
Gay marriage makes as much sense as any other marriage. Two people who fall in love and make a commitment to be family to each other.

How can you talk about "junk science" and then believe that two people being married become "family"? It's rubbish. Family is forever, it is a mother and child, it is not two people in love. What is love? A feeling or a fancy that lasts about as long as the hormones it took to create it.

My father walked out on all of us. It was that easy to stop being married. Mum and I remain.

She can't stop being my family and unfortunately neither can he. They did stop being anything to each other and that's what makes this idea utterly ridiculous that a ceremony and paper means anything. It means absolutely bollocks.

jillian
11-27-2013, 11:53 AM
Recently, NJ Gov. Chris Christie signed a law banning "gay conversion therapy", or sending homosexual teens to licensed therapists in order to make them straight. You can read more about that here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/chris-christie-gay-conversion-therapy_n_3778948.html

How do you feel about gay conversion therapy? Is it parents looking out for the spiritual well being of their children or is it child abuse? Should it be banned, as it is now in NJ? Is this something where the state should have a say, even if it is unethical?

what should anyone "feel" about it other than that it's abusive and stupid?

it has ZERO to do with the well being and you know it's unethical because it's abusive and stupid.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 11:57 AM
My parents sent me to therapy to recover from my father running off with his personal assistant. I didn't want to go and was forced. I didn't want to forgive him. Still don't. No one should be forced into any therapy. Go if you want. If you don't want it feels like being "raped". Someone's trying to get into your head, make you feel something you didn't choose to feel, and change you ultimately.

No child should be forced on drugs for activity disorders, either.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 12:09 PM
How can you talk about "junk science" and then believe that two people being married become "family"? It's rubbish. Family is forever, it is a mother and child, it is not two people in love. What is love? A feeling or a fancy that lasts about as long as the hormones it took to create it.

My father walked out on all of us. It was that easy to stop being married. Mum and I remain.

She can't stop being my family and unfortunately neither can he. They did stop being anything to each other and that's what makes this idea utterly ridiculous that a ceremony and paper means anything. It means absolutely bollocks.

Obviously I see it differently. My wife and I had to wait 28 years to be able to marry each other. It makes a difference.

jillian
11-27-2013, 12:12 PM
The question was "Did you choose to be a heterosexual?" not what are your choices in sexual activity. You could be a homosexual who chooses to live straight.

It's why some men, after being married 30 years suddenly divorce their wives and "turn gay". They didn't turn. They just admitted they were homosexuals and chose to act out their true sexual preferences.

^^^^^^^^^^

that

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 12:23 PM
Obviously I see it differently. My wife and I had to wait 28 years to be able to marry each other. It makes a difference.

You've just made my point. You were together for 28 years. The paper meant fuck all. It doesn't hold you together or tell you who you are. Your own character, or lack thereof, does. You were a couple without it. The notion that a piece of paper makes you something is stupid. No paper holds two people together that don't want to be. It means nothing. Less than nothing, actually. It's just a security blanket that makes you feel that you'll get some ridiculous happily ever after story.

Marriage was a contract between families, nothing more than that. It wasn't about "love". That's the biggest bit of rubbish ever sold to the public.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 12:28 PM
You've just made my point. You were together for 28 years. The paper meant fuck all. It doesn't hold you together or tell you who you are. Your own character, or lack thereof, does. You were a couple without it. The notion that a piece of paper makes you something is stupid. No paper holds two people together that don't want to be. It means nothing. Less than nothing, actually. It's just a security blanket that makes you feel that you'll get some ridiculous happily ever after story.

Marriage was a contract between families, nothing more than that. It wasn't about "love". That's the biggest bit of rubbish ever sold to the public.

Actually, getting married meant a great deal to both of us. It deepened our connection. Since the SCOTUS decision it also means that when one of us dies before the other we are entitled to marital benefits just like any other couple.

I didn't think I'd see this in my lifetime. It's quite wonderful.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 12:38 PM
Actually, getting married meant a great deal to both of us. It deepened our connection. Since the SCOTUS decision is also means that when one of us dies before the other we are entitled to marital benefits just like any other couple.

I didn't think I'd see this in my lifetime. It's quite wonderful.

You got nothing a halfway decent written contract couldn't have gotten you. I'm sure you believe (feel) this meant something extraordinary because some stupid romantic novel or comedy told you that a piece of paper makes you family and happy. Logically, nothing changed. You were more committed without it because all you had to hold you to each other was free will.

If I ever even consider getting married for any reason other than having kids someone shoot me for I've gone daft.

Mister D
11-27-2013, 12:38 PM
You've just made my point. You were together for 28 years. The paper meant fuck all. It doesn't hold you together or tell you who you are. Your own character, or lack thereof, does. You were a couple without it. The notion that a piece of paper makes you something is stupid. No paper holds two people together that don't want to be. It means nothing. Less than nothing, actually. It's just a security blanket that makes you feel that you'll get some ridiculous happily ever after story.

Marriage was a contract between families, nothing more than that. It wasn't about "love". That's the biggest bit of rubbish ever sold to the public.

Well said. Marriage as personal fulfillment is a recent trend.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 12:41 PM
You got nothing a halfway decent written contract couldn't have gotten you. I'm sure you believe (feel) this meant something extraordinary because some stupid romantic novel or comedy told you that a piece of paper makes you family and happy. Logically, nothing changed. You were more committed without it because all you had to hold you to each other was free will.

If I ever even consider getting married for any reason other than having kids someone shoot me for I've gone daft.
A halfway decent legal contract would not allowed us to collect each others social security. Legalizing gay marriage means a lot to gay people. You aren't gay so you don't understand.

kilgram
11-27-2013, 12:45 PM
Recently, NJ Gov. Chris Christie signed a law banning "gay conversion therapy", or sending homosexual teens to licensed therapists in order to make them straight. You can read more about that here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/chris-christie-gay-conversion-therapy_n_3778948.html

How do you feel about gay conversion therapy? Is it parents looking out for the spiritual well being of their children or is it child abuse? Should it be banned, as it is now in NJ? Is this something where the state should have a say, even if it is unethical?
It is child abuse, and a child won't change how he is. And it is known that it affects negatively and many people because of these therapies have end in suicide.

No, it is not the solution. The solution is accept your child as he is and love him. Gove love to him and support, and not treat him as the child was sick, because the child is not.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 12:52 PM
A halfway decent legal contract would not allowed us to collect each others social security. Legalizing gay marriage means a lot to gay people. You aren't gay so you don't understand.

No, I'm not American so I don't understand "social security". I do understand legal contracts and I understand how easy it is to walk out of a marriage. I understand that marriage means fuck all, I'll tell you that.

Mum put 18 years into it and when Dad decided he'd grown into a different person not the paper or this nebulous contract of "family" kept him from walking out and starting a new one.

Marriage is shite.

sky dancer
11-27-2013, 01:03 PM
No, I'm not American so I don't understand "social security". I do understand legal contracts and I understand how easy it is to walk out of a marriage. I understand that marriage means fuck all, I'll tell you that.

Mum put 18 years into it and when Dad decided he'd grown into a different person not the paper or this nebulous contract of "family" kept him from walking out and starting a new one.

Marriage is shite.

I'm sorry you have such a negative view of marriage. My dad and mom didn't stay together either. I consider my relationship to my to be one of my crowning life achievements. We have really created something beautiful and we share the benefits with others.

Right now we are foster parenting three children, aged 5, 10 and 14. Many of my straight friends tell me our relationship is one they envy.

Paperback Writer
11-27-2013, 01:09 PM
I'm sorry you have such a negative view of marriage. My dad and mom didn't stay together either. I consider my relationship to my to be one of my crowning life achievements. We have really created something beautiful and we share the benefits with others.

28 years is a crowning achievement. Bravo. Marriage didn't do that, you did by wanting to stay.




Right now we are foster parenting three children, aged 5, 10 and 14. Many of my straight friends tell me our relationship is one they envy.

That's different then. I suppose for their sake you have to sign up.

Blackrook
11-27-2013, 03:44 PM
My wife was watching a crime show about a gorgeous and very wealthy 40 yr old lesbian, who pursued a 20 year old straight woman relentlessly, the young woman steadfastly refused relations and told her she was straight. So the lesbian said lets be friends. She lavished the young woman with gifts and trips to the bahamas and such, when all else failed she introduced her to ecstasy and plied her with alcohol to break down her inhibitions and had sex with her. She kept the young woman plied with gifts, trips an apt ecstasy cocaine and drugs. This went on for a few months and finally the young woman told her no more I am NOT GAY I cant do this and refused any more gifts and moved out of the apt. The lesbian brutally murdered her. Mind you this was not a dykey looking woman she was gorgeous and dressed quite sexxy and expensive.
I truly believe some women are coerced into same sex relationships.
Ha ha, I think it's ironic that liberal Hollywood portrays homosexuals as wicked seducers of youth, and bisexuals as sociopaths who will have sex with people of any sex, and then kill them.

Toro
11-27-2013, 04:46 PM
Recently, NJ Gov. Chris Christie signed a law banning "gay conversion therapy", or sending homosexual teens to licensed therapists in order to make them straight. You can read more about that here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/chris-christie-gay-conversion-therapy_n_3778948.html

How do you feel about gay conversion therapy? Is it parents looking out for the spiritual well being of their children or is it child abuse? Should it be banned, as it is now in NJ? Is this something where the state should have a say, even if it is unethical?

It's about as valid as "black conversion therapy."

Not sure if it should be banned though.

ptif219
11-27-2013, 05:07 PM
The question was "Did you choose to be a heterosexual?" not what are your choices in sexual activity. You could be a homosexual who chooses to live straight.

It's why some men, after being married 30 years suddenly divorce their wives and "turn gay". They didn't turn. They just admitted they were homosexuals and chose to act out their true sexual preferences.

If i am heterosexual what did I choose. DUH http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_see_stars.gifhttp://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_shakehead.gifhttp://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_thinking.gifhttp://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_spank.gif

Captain Obvious
11-27-2013, 05:34 PM
Packed with bigotry

Max Rockatansky
11-27-2013, 06:56 PM
If i am heterosexual what did I choose. DUH http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_see_stars.gifhttp://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_shakehead.gifhttp://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_thinking.gifhttp://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_spank.gif

To be heterosexual or homosexual. Isn't sexual preference a choice according to you?
In fact, this looks a little gay. Do you like beating bare male asses to a nice shade of pink?
http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_spank.gif

jillian
11-27-2013, 07:40 PM
It's about as valid as "black conversion therapy."

Not sure if it should be banned though.

it doesn't work.

it undermines the self-worth of the people who are forced to undergo the "therapy"

the rate of suicide among gay kids is largely because of the lack of acceptance and harassment they get in certain communities…. this type of therapy increases that type of marginalization and hopelessness.

it's a cruel hoax and when perpetrated on an underage person, is abuse.

Codename Section
11-27-2013, 09:40 PM
it doesn't work.

it undermines the self-worth of the people who are forced to undergo the "therapy"

the rate of suicide among gay kids is largely because of the lack of acceptance and harassment they get in certain communities…. this type of therapy increases that type of marginalization and hopelessness.

it's a cruel hoax and when perpetrated on an underage person, is abuse.


When therapy of any kind fails you think its your fault. Hi Jilly ((waves))

Mister D
11-27-2013, 09:48 PM
Packed with bigotry

Packed hehe

ptif219
11-27-2013, 11:27 PM
To be heterosexual or homosexual. Isn't sexual preference a choice according to you?
In fact, this looks a little gay. Do you like beating bare male asses to a nice shade of pink?

Only when they say stupid things. Just like my teachers did when I was young. My Dad used a leather belt.

ptif219
11-27-2013, 11:28 PM
it doesn't work.

it undermines the self-worth of the people who are forced to undergo the "therapy"

the rate of suicide among gay kids is largely because of the lack of acceptance and harassment they get in certain communities…. this type of therapy increases that type of marginalization and hopelessness.

it's a cruel hoax and when perpetrated on an underage person, is abuse.

Maybe if the pressure the GLSEN puts on them

Max Rockatansky
11-29-2013, 08:33 PM
Only when they say stupid things. Just like my teachers did when I was young. My Dad used a leather belt.

Is that when you knew? When your dad was beating your bare bottom with his belt?

Dr. Who
11-29-2013, 11:26 PM
All mammals start out undifferentiated in utero. That is a scientific fact. They gradually develop sexual characteristics as androgens begin to act upon the fetus ultimately resulting inXY(boy) or XX(girl).Long story short females appear to develop before males. What happens in between the undifferentiated and the differentiated may not yet be fully understood as we have not succeeded in 100% genome mapping. That means that there may be genetic markers for homosexuality, which we have not yet discovered. It could be something as simple as an incomplete transition from undifferentiated to male, as there is a stage where all zygotes may test as female.

ptif219
11-30-2013, 01:10 AM
All mammals start out undifferentiated in utero. That is a scientific fact. They gradually develop sexual characteristics as androgens begin to act upon the fetus ultimately resulting inXX(boy) or XY(girl).Long story short females appear to develop before males. What happens in between the undifferentiated and the differentiated may not yet be fully understood as we have not succeeded in 100% genome mapping. That means that there may be genetic markers for homosexuality, which we have not yet discovered. It could be something as simple as an incomplete transition from undifferentiated to male, as there is a stage where all zygotes may test as female.

They have been trying to prove it for decades

kilgram
11-30-2013, 07:47 AM
All mammals start out undifferentiated in utero. That is a scientific fact. They gradually develop sexual characteristics as androgens begin to act upon the fetus ultimately resulting inXX(boy) or XY(girl).Long story short females appear to develop before males. What happens in between the undifferentiated and the differentiated may not yet be fully understood as we have not succeeded in 100% genome mapping. That means that there may be genetic markers for homosexuality, which we have not yet discovered. It could be something as simple as an incomplete transition from undifferentiated to male, as there is a stage where all zygotes may test as female.
XX - Female
XY - Male

It is the normal.

And you are right, in the beginning we are XX. And we can find XX males, I think and XY females.

Codename Section
11-30-2013, 08:03 AM
All mammals start out undifferentiated in utero. That is a scientific fact. They gradually develop sexual characteristics as androgens begin to act upon the fetus ultimately resulting inXX(boy) or XY(girl).Long story short females appear to develop before males. What happens in between the undifferentiated and the differentiated may not yet be fully understood as we have not succeeded in 100% genome mapping. That means that there may be genetic markers for homosexuality, which we have not yet discovered. It could be something as simple as an incomplete transition from undifferentiated to male, as there is a stage where all zygotes may test as female.

Someone posted on another forum that there are more gays in larger families and that there may be an evolutionary reason, such as giving people more un-paired caregivers.

Dr. Who
11-30-2013, 11:36 AM
Someone posted on another forum that there are more gays in larger families and that there may be an evolutionary reason, such as giving people more un-paired caregivers.A prior neighbor of mine who happens to be gay told me that his sister is also gay, while his brother is straight, but that his very Catholic father confessed to having homosexual tendencies that he never acted on.

The Sage of Main Street
11-30-2013, 04:13 PM
Packed hehe

Packed with a big what? Is "otry" his pet name for it?

Cthulhu
12-05-2013, 11:31 AM
I personally think gay conversion classes are wrong. I think kids that realize they are gay need support and love from their famoly and not sent to a place that says that they are broken in some way and need to be fixed so that they are normal or don't burn in hell. But that's just me.

Telling someone they are going to burn in hell rarely helps and almost always hurts.

However this is a parental domain I think. Not the state.

But we also need to be honest with ourselves. Homosexuality is a defect. There, I said it. Much like being born without legs is a defect. Both reduce your chances of creating offspring for a multitude of reasons and complicate your life in ways a normal person would not have to deal with.

Are we really going to try convincing a person born with no legs that they aren't broken? It is obviously for all to see that they are, otherwise they would not need devices to help them with day to day living.

Gay conversion therapy although I think is a large waste of time and money, is an individual choice. And the market will decide whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze.

McCool
12-06-2013, 08:23 PM
I personally think gay conversion classes are wrong. I think kids that realize they are gay need support and love from their famoly and not sent to a place that says that they are broken in some way and need to be fixed so that they are normal or don't burn in hell. But that's just me. Gay conversion classes are asinine. People need to step back and look within before they start trying to fix others.

Max Rockatansky
12-08-2013, 05:50 PM
XX - Female
XY - Male

It is the normal.

And you are right, in the beginning we are XX. And we can find XX males, I think and XY females.

That's not correct. We're all born with initial female characteristics such as nipples, but when the secondary sex characteristics kick in at about six weeks, the differences start to show as dictated by the fetus's XX or XY chromosomes. The chromosomes don't change, but the sexual characteristics do after that 6-8 week period.

spunkloaf
12-10-2013, 07:31 AM
Wow. It's amazing to me that people have such a hard time finding a little bit of empathy for others.

Let me try and make it simpler for you, then, assuming there's still a shred of imagination to spare.

You're straight, but for some unexplainable reason (JUST for the sake of argument) the rest of the world is gay, and you live in a particular community that discourages straight lifestyles. Your parents send you off somewhere that you are not allowed to be attracted to the opposite sex, and you are oppressed and molded into something that you simply are not programmed or meant for: Homosexuality. Since you are not old enough to tell them to fuck off, your parents force you to go through this. They do it because they love you. Does this make any sense?


I think if it's too much for me to ask that the deplorable practice be outlawed altogether, at least stipulate that it is a CHILD'S decision. There should be a trained psychiatrist who must approve of the child's personal accord, and may issue a permit for the practice after a mental analysis to determine whether it could harm the mental well-being of the child.

You could save all that effort and just outlaw the practice, though. It is a disgrace to humanity and the laws of nature.

Max Rockatansky
12-10-2013, 07:51 AM
Wow. It's amazing to me that people have such a hard time finding a little bit of empathy for others.

Let me try and make it simpler for you, then, assuming there's still a shred of imagination to spare.

You're straight, but for some unexplainable reason (JUST for the sake of argument) the rest of the world is gay, and you live in a particular community that discourages straight lifestyles. Your parents send you off somewhere that you are not allowed to be attracted to the opposite sex, and you are oppressed and molded into something that you simply are not programmed or meant for: Homosexuality. Since you are not old enough to tell them to fuck off, your parents force you to go through this. They do it because they love you. Does this make any sense?....

Yes, it does. Misguided and wrong, but it makes sense for parents to want their child to be "normal". A term subject to change.

nic34
12-10-2013, 08:25 AM
Homophobia seems a denial of their own same-sex attraction and anyone that insists "gay" can be cured must believe everyone is like themselves and supresses same sex attraction.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/homophobia-may-reveal-denial-of-own-same-sex-attraction-study-suggests/

Kabuki Joe
12-10-2013, 08:59 AM
Recently, NJ Gov. Chris Christie signed a law banning "gay conversion therapy", or sending homosexual teens to licensed therapists in order to make them straight. You can read more about that here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/chris-christie-gay-conversion-therapy_n_3778948.html

How do you feel about gay conversion therapy? Is it parents looking out for the spiritual well being of their children or is it child abuse? Should it be banned, as it is now in NJ? Is this something where the state should have a say, even if it is unethical?

...it's no more successful then prison rehabilitating criminals...you are what you are...

ptif219
12-10-2013, 09:15 PM
Homophobia seems a denial of their own same-sex attraction and anyone that insists "gay" can be cured must believe everyone is like themselves and supresses same sex attraction.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/homophobia-may-reveal-denial-of-own-same-sex-attraction-study-suggests/

I would reject it depending on the definition of homophobia. People that think homosexual acts are immoral as I do are not homophobic and wish them no harm.. It seems you so called homophobia which I think is a much over used term is getting less and less.


http://www.economist.com/node/21548961

Max Rockatansky
12-11-2013, 06:06 AM
I would reject it depending on the definition of homophobia. People that think homosexual acts are immoral as I do are not homophobic and wish them no harm.. It seems you so called homophobia which I think is a much over used term is getting less and less.


http://www.economist.com/node/21548961

It's one thing to simply have an opinion and I agree with you that doesn't necessarily constitute homophobia.

People who hate gays and actively seek to deprive gays of rights as Americans, that not the same as just having an opinion on morality.

People who think certain movies or television shows are immoral don't watch those movies or shows. That's fine, but when they actively seek to deprive others from seeing those movies or shows, that a different matter. It's being an oppressive authoritarian who seeks to impose their sense of morality onto others. That's not just an opinion, that's an action.

jillian
12-11-2013, 06:17 AM
It's one thing to simply have an opinion and I agree with you that doesn't necessarily constitute homophobia.

People who hate gays and actively seek to deprive gays of rights as Americans, that not the same as just having an opinion on morality.

People who think certain movies or television shows are immoral don't watch those movies or shows. That's fine, but when they actively seek to deprive others from seeing those movies or shows, that a different matter. It's being an oppressive authoritarian who seeks to impose their sense of morality onto others. That's not just an opinion, that's an action.

so how do you explain people who call themselves libertarian but don't oppose legislation that is theocratic (e.g., ken cuccinelli's anti-"sodomy" law and the anti-choice laws proffered by the right)

Max Rockatansky
12-11-2013, 06:19 AM
so how do you explain people who call themselves libertarian but don't oppose legislation that is theocratic (e.g., ken cuccinelli's anti-"sodomy" law and the anti-choice laws proffered by the right)

I'd say they aren't as Libertarian as they purport.

Captain Obvious
12-11-2013, 07:32 AM
so how do you explain people who call themselves libertarian but don't oppose legislation that is theocratic (e.g., ken cuccinelli's anti-"sodomy" law and the anti-choice laws proffered by the right)

Anti-baby-butchering is simple - you just have to have a conscious to support that concept.

jillian
12-11-2013, 07:37 AM
Anti-baby-butchering is simple - you just have to have a conscious to support that concept.

using the term "baby butchering" is a moral judgment to which you are entitled. you just aren't entitled to impose that moral judgment (which comes from your own religious beliefs, not mine) on others.

most people can barely take care of their own lives. they certainly shouldn't have the right to run others.

which brings me back to pretend libertarianism…. the imposition of theocratic laws is inconsistent with the concept of liberty.

Captain Obvious
12-11-2013, 07:40 AM
using the term "baby butchering" is a moral judgment to which you are entitled. you just aren't entitled to impose that moral judgment (which comes from your own religious beliefs, not mine) on others.

most people can barely take care of their own lives. they certainly shouldn't have the right to run others.

which brings me back to pretend libertarianism…. the imposition of theocratic laws is inconsistent with the concept of liberty.

Of course not, but I can judge your character based on your ethical positions.

Max Rockatansky
12-11-2013, 08:00 AM
Of course not, but I can judge your character based on your ethical positions.

We all can, but clearly those all are subjective judgments since there is no such thing as a natural or absolute "ethical position".

jillian
12-11-2013, 08:01 AM
We all can, but clearly those all are subjective judgments since there is no such thing as a natural or absolute "ethical position".

there are positions that are objectively more ethical than others.

jillian
12-11-2013, 08:02 AM
I'd say they aren't as Libertarian as they purport.

me, too.

Gerrard Winstanley
12-11-2013, 08:04 AM
there are positions that are objectively more ethical than others.
Morality is an entirely abstract, almost spiritual factor. What one considers good and bad for a society is prone to vary wildly. Just take a look at this forum for a good example of this division.

Mister D
12-11-2013, 08:04 AM
using the term "baby butchering" is a moral judgment to which you are entitled. you just aren't entitled to impose that moral judgment (which comes from your own religious beliefs, not mine) on others.

most people can barely take care of their own lives. they certainly shouldn't have the right to run others.

which brings me back to pretend libertarianism…. the imposition of theocratic laws is inconsistent with the concept of liberty.

You really do struggle with this. You have a set of talking points (theocracy, imposing religious beliefs etc.) and when they don't apply (for example, Captain isn't a religious man) you use them anyway. Why?

Mister D
12-11-2013, 08:09 AM
there are positions that are objectively more ethical than others.

Really? How is that determined? I find this fascinating because you often speak of morality being imposed on you (by Christians of course while you support a theocracy in the Middle east). So we have objective criteria? What? It can't be Natural Law. That's just nonsense to you. What is it?

Captain Obvious
12-11-2013, 08:12 AM
We all can, but clearly those all are subjective judgments since there is no such thing as a natural or absolute "ethical position".

So if I consider rape ethical (or not unethical), therefore it is?

sky dancer
12-11-2013, 08:20 AM
So if I consider rape ethical (or not unethical), therefore it is?

You can certainly debate whether killing is ethical. For instance, if it is known that a certain individual will set off a terrorist bomb killing thousands, then killing that individual may be considered a moral act.

jillian
12-11-2013, 08:21 AM
Morality is an entirely abstract, almost spiritual factor. What one considers good and bad for a society is prone to vary wildly. Just take a look at this forum for a good example of this division.

which is why government shouldn't be in the morality business. if we're talking about real victims and laws concerning intrusions onto other people, that's one thing.

the question is where on the continuum of governmental interest does something like "sodomy" or reproductive choice lie. the balance in that regard (til the latest winger assault) has been pretty good.

and when i say some positions are more moral than others, i mean this:

moral: not depriving individuals of their rights because you have a personal dislike for them or what they are

Captain Obvious
12-11-2013, 08:25 AM
You can certainly debate whether killing is ethical. For instance, if it is known that a certain individual will set off a terrorist bomb killing thousands, then killing that individual may be considered a moral act.

So if I rape a whore, that's ok?

Or if I rape my wife?

(or both? hurrrr!!)

Max Rockatansky
12-11-2013, 08:44 AM
So if I consider rape ethical (or not unethical), therefore it is?

For you. Of course, if you rape a woman, her relatives may think it's ethical to let you eat your own genitalia as punishment then decide whether or not to let you limp home or simply tie you up and throw you in the river.

Laws are based on mutual agreement of a society. Religious law is among the oldest around and is often used as a basis for laws. Among mankind, we can logically come up with some laws like "thou shalt not murder" or "thou shalt not rape", but some laws are more arbitrary such as "thou shalt not vote under the age of 18" or "thou shalt not have sex with a person under the age of 16" (17 or 18 in some states).

texmaster
12-11-2013, 09:05 AM
Doesn't matter to me but if you are going to have gay camp for kids which is obviously brain washing you can't ban the alternative.

ptif219
12-11-2013, 10:49 AM
It's one thing to simply have an opinion and I agree with you that doesn't necessarily constitute homophobia.

People who hate gays and actively seek to deprive gays of rights as Americans, that not the same as just having an opinion on morality.

People who think certain movies or television shows are immoral don't watch those movies or shows. That's fine, but when they actively seek to deprive others from seeing those movies or shows, that a different matter. It's being an oppressive authoritarian who seeks to impose their sense of morality onto others. That's not just an opinion, that's an action.

So you think laws have nothing to do with a countries morals? I disagree.

Max Rockatansky
12-11-2013, 11:03 AM
So you think laws have nothing to do with a countries morals? I disagree.

Not all all. Why would you assume that from my statement? The problem is morals change. Some things once considered moral are now considered immoral.

Is slavery moral or immoral? Wife beating? Having different punishments depending upon whether you kill a white man or a black man? Selling snake oil to children? All were legal and considered "moral" at one time. Why the change?

Cthulhu
12-11-2013, 11:54 AM
I'd say they aren't as Libertarian as they purport.

Could be that they just don't care and don't have any skin in the game as well.

Codename Section
12-11-2013, 11:57 AM
so how do you explain people who call themselves libertarian but don't oppose legislation that is theocratic (e.g., ken cuccinelli's anti-"sodomy" law and the anti-choice laws proffered by the right)

Who are these assholes? :D

sky dancer
12-11-2013, 03:43 PM
So if I rape a whore, that's ok?

Or if I rape my wife?

(or both? hurrrr!!)

I used the example of killing, because as a Buddhist, that is the worst moral act one can commit. What is your trip with rape? I never mentioned it.

sky dancer
12-11-2013, 03:45 PM
Doesn't matter to me but if you are going to have gay camp for kids which is obviously brain washing you can't ban the alternative.
That doesn't make sense to me. If you have a camp for diabetic kids are they brainwashed? What if you have a camp for left handed kids? If a right handed kid happens to attend will he be brainwashed into using his left hand?

sky dancer
12-11-2013, 03:57 PM
Not all all. Why would you assume that from my statement? The problem is morals change. Some things once considered moral are now considered immoral.

Is slavery moral or immoral? Wife beating? Having different punishments depending upon whether you kill a white man or a black man? Selling snake oil to children? All were legal and considered "moral" at one time. Why the change?

What is immoral to a Christian may be moral to a Buddhist. For example, homosexuality is a Christian "sin". Whereas the third precept in Buddhism on sexual responsibility doesn't single out homosexuality as misconduct inherently, it identifies sexual misconduct in this way:

"Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long- term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct."

Codename Section
12-11-2013, 04:12 PM
What is immoral to a Christian may be moral to a Buddhist. For example, homosexuality is a Christian "sin". Whereas the third precept in Buddhism on sexual responsibility doesn't single out homosexuality as misconduct inherently, it identifies sexual misconduct in this way:

"Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long- term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct."



sky dancer

it is the exact same in Christianity. Just most Christians forget that. Why? Premarital sex is fun.

nic34
12-11-2013, 04:17 PM
Yes, Christians have erected such a high moral code that they could never live up to it.

Always baffled me how they set themselves up to lose.....

Codename Section
12-11-2013, 04:18 PM
Yes, Christians have erected such a high moral code that they could never live up to it.

Always baffled me how they set themselves up to lose.....

Hormones win every time.

Codename Section
12-11-2013, 04:23 PM
sky dancer


you and Mr. Freeze both like this guy...this is for you two (he's still recovering from car accident). Oh and Chloe (from sustainable man)

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1461883_10151908099367909_977218347_n.jpg

sky dancer
12-11-2013, 04:54 PM
@sky dancer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=841)

it is the exact same in Christianity. Just most Christians forget that. Why? Premarital sex is fun.
Pre-marital sex wouldn't be immoral in Buddhism, unless you had sex with someone who is married, who you have no commitment to or with a child.

Max Rockatansky
12-11-2013, 11:49 PM
Yes, Christians have erected such a high moral code that they could never live up to it.

Always baffled me how they set themselves up to lose.....

I blame Paul the Apostle. He had a hard on for sex.....umm, that didn't sound right, but you know what I mean. He made sex dirty....or at least his quotes from Corinthians are use to make sex dirty.

Max Rockatansky
12-11-2013, 11:51 PM
What is immoral to a Christian may be moral to a Buddhist.

I completely agree. Morality is arbitrary unless one uses a foundation for it such as God. Since belief in God is a matter of faith, absolute morals cannot be proven.

sky dancer
12-13-2013, 07:11 PM
I completely agree. Morality is arbitrary unless one uses a foundation for it such as God. Since belief in God is a matter of faith, absolute morals cannot be proven.

I am not so sure about that. Plenty of atheists lead ethical lives without believing in God.

Max Rockatansky
12-13-2013, 07:22 PM
I am not so sure about that. Plenty of atheists lead ethical lives without believing in God.

Their morals are dependent upon the social standards of the time. You're missing the point. No one can prove or disprove the existence of God and, therefore, the existence of absolute or natural rights. Ergo, theist or atheist, we're all operating on faith be it a deity or the social norm.

sky dancer
12-13-2013, 07:27 PM
Their morals are dependent upon the social standards of the time. You're missing the point. No one can prove or disprove the existence of God and, therefore, the existence of absolute or natural rights. Ergo, theist or atheist, we're all operating on faith be it a deity or the social norm.

Some morals aren't dependent on the social standards of the time.

Max Rockatansky
12-13-2013, 07:30 PM
Some morals aren't dependent on the social standards of the time.

Such as?

Are you saying that we could dump a bunch of kindergartners on an island that has plenty of natural food and they'll grow up to be a completely moral society much like the San Diego Social Club?

sky dancer
12-13-2013, 07:32 PM
Such as?

Are you saying that we could dump a bunch of kindergartners on an island that has plenty of natural food and they'll grow up to be a completely moral society much like the San Diego Social Club?

No, I'm saying that some systems of morality are so old that they are nearly universal.

Max Rockatansky
12-13-2013, 07:34 PM
No, I'm saying that some systems of morality are so old that they are nearly universal.

I'm still waiting for you to cough up some examples. If it is as clear as you say, it should be easy.

sky dancer
12-13-2013, 07:36 PM
I'm still waiting for you to cough up some examples. If it is as clear as you say, it should be easy.
Buddhism, for example. The no killing precept.

Max Rockatansky
12-13-2013, 07:37 PM
Buddhism, for example. The no killing precept.

That's a belief system. While many societies have rules about murder, very few abstain from all killing.

Still, there's nothing "natural" or "universal" about such a rule. Logical, yes. If it was natural, animals would follow it too.

sky dancer
12-13-2013, 07:40 PM
That's a belief system. While many societies have rules about murder, very few abstain from all killing.

Still, there's nothing "natural" or "universal" about such a rule. Logical, yes. If it was natural, animals would follow it too.
I suppose it's a "belief" system. Kind of a study in interdependence, IMO.

Max Rockatansky
12-13-2013, 07:46 PM
I suppose it's a "belief" system. Kind of a study in interdependence, IMO.

Like cattle and horses, humans are social animals and tend to follow some social rules...although not as strictly as non-sentient critters.

Human societies have some general trends, but also a wide variety of systems. Even among the ancient Greeks, the differences between the Athenians and the Spartans was stark. The same goes for Native American tribes, some peaceful, some warlike and other societies in both history and the present.

http://www.ushistory.org/civ/5a.asp

Mr. Freeze
12-14-2013, 11:14 AM
@sky dancer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=841)


you and @Mr. Freeze (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=892) both like this guy...this is for you two (he's still recovering from car accident). Oh and @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565) (from sustainable man)

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1461883_10151908099367909_977218347_n.jpg


Great man. Great soul. He is what got me into Buddhism.

ptif219
12-14-2013, 07:47 PM
Gay therapy ban will be challenged in court. They are suing Christy

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nj-couple-sues-christie-gay-therapy-ban-article-1.1507000

Dangermouse
12-14-2013, 08:18 PM
They are arsehole losers then, and wil be shown to be so.

ptif219
12-15-2013, 12:13 AM
They are arsehole losers then, and wil be shown to be so.



Then I guess we should get rid of alcohol therapy and Drud therapy and sex addiction therapy and overeating addiction therapy. If one does not work then none must work.

Dr. Who
12-15-2013, 12:18 AM
Then I guess we should get rid of alcohol therapy and Drud therapy and sex addiction therapy and overeating addiction therapy. If one does not work then none must work.

Do you suppose any amount of therapy could turn you gay? You can't force people to be attracted to the opposite sex.

ptif219
12-15-2013, 12:45 AM
Do you suppose any amount of therapy could turn you gay? You can't force people to be attracted to the opposite sex.

You can't force people to do drugs either. Yet schools are promoting gays through the GLSEN

KC
12-15-2013, 12:47 AM
You can't force people to do drugs either. Yet schools are promoting gays through the GLSEN

http://0.tqn.com/h/humor/1/H/m/M/-/-/Wat.jpg

Dr. Who
12-15-2013, 01:07 AM
You can't force people to do drugs either. Yet schools are promoting gays through the GLSEN

There is quite a difference between educating kids that people come in different varieties and different doesn't mean bad, and actively trying to change their sexuality. They are not promoting gays, they are trying to stop gay bashing and bullying.

ptif219
12-15-2013, 01:52 AM
There is quite a difference between educating kids that people come in different varieties and different doesn't mean bad, and actively trying to change their sexuality. They are not promoting gays, they are trying to stop gay bashing and bullying.


Sure they that is what fistgate was about right?

http://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/A064_HIVStats.htm

http://www.varight.com/news/gay-and-lesbian-group-kicked-out-of-elementary-schools-hey-glsen-leave-our-kids-alone/

Max Rockatansky
12-15-2013, 05:36 AM
Then I guess we should get rid of alcohol therapy and Drud therapy and sex addiction therapy and overeating addiction therapy. If one does not work then none must work.

What about teaching right-handed therapy to left-handers? Height therapy to short people? Brown-eye therapy to blue-eyed people?

spunkloaf
05-09-2014, 06:53 PM
You can't force people to do drugs either. Yet schools are promoting gays through the GLSEN

You can't promote homosexuality. It's not something that can be influenced. otherwise I would be able to convince you to be gay. It's not a matter of will. Either you like guys or you like girls, or both. It doesn't matter if you are a male or female.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

kilgram
05-09-2014, 07:42 PM
Hmmm. TV. Most of the lesbians I know would not fit the description that you describe. The lesbians that I have met/know are either fairly ordinary ladies or they tend to go out of their way not to look feminine. I do know women who became lesbians because of sexual abuse at the hands of males, but who eventually met a guy they could trust and married. Female sexuality is somewhat more fluid than male sexuality. Perhaps it is because all mammals start life as females and later differentiate into male and female.

I think that it was an example that you cannot change sex tastes.

Newpublius
05-09-2014, 09:53 PM
I don't think you can reprogram sexual identity and trying to do so causes extreme psychological issues which often results in suicide.

I specifically recall lab rats being subjected to hormones and the rats will exhibit male/female behavior according to the hormones and not the genes.

if homosexuality were entirely genetic, identical twins would always be the same sexual identity, they're not, not even close. This implies that non-genetic, environmental factors are at play.

as for programming/reprogramming.....they aren't close to really having a predictable impact there, so not sure how legitimately therapeutic anything could be.

Dr. Who
05-09-2014, 10:05 PM
I specifically recall lab rats being subjected to hormones and the rats will exhibit male/female behavior according to the hormones and not the genes.

if homosexuality were entirely genetic, identical twins would always be the same sexual identity, they're not, not even close. This implies that non-genetic, environmental factors are at play.

as for programming/reprogramming.....they aren't close to really having a predictable impact there, so not sure how legitimately therapeutic anything could be.
The only thing about identical twins that is certain is that they start with identical genetic characteristics, but in in utero development is not identical, one may get more nutrients than the other, etcetera, so there is no way to tell whether the differences in in utero development can result in significant genetic differences. What is known is that identical twins generally have different personalities.

Newpublius
05-09-2014, 10:17 PM
Environmental facts could absolutely start in utero, of course the genes aren't altered....the probability that both individuals are homosexual is much higher of course than just the general population, and this implies that the stamping is done fairly early when the environmental differences are more likely to be the same....let's assume argue do that it's 100% in utero and find a lack of 'x' in month 4 is always associated.....is it POSSIBLE that homosexuality can be prevented?

the more complex and multivariate the causation the more difficult the task becomes.....perhaps improbable.....

The Sage of Main Street
05-10-2014, 04:16 PM
You can't promote homosexuality. It's not something that can be influenced. otherwise I would be able to convince you to be gay. It's not a matter of will. Either you like guys or you like girls, or both. It doesn't matter if you are a male or female.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk You're chanting a dangerous but well-financed web of lies. If this conversion therapy doesn't work, it may be because the therapists themselves don't understand heterophobia. It is very suspicious that no one will tell us what the therapy is; the Gayists just repeat that it's impossible to change their clients.

ptif219
05-10-2014, 09:58 PM
You can't promote homosexuality. It's not something that can be influenced. otherwise I would be able to convince you to be gay. It's not a matter of will. Either you like guys or you like girls, or both. It doesn't matter if you are a male or female.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

That is your opinion

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4219121/k.48F3/Gay_Agenda_in_Schools.htm

kilgram
05-10-2014, 10:50 PM
That is your opinion

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4219121/k.48F3/Gay_Agenda_in_Schools.htm
bullshit. Homophobic bullshit.

nic34
05-10-2014, 11:58 PM
All I know is that some of you so called straight guys spend WAY too much time thinking about homosexuality.

spunkloaf
05-11-2014, 03:05 AM
That is your opinion

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4219121/k.48F3/Gay_Agenda_in_Schools.htm

It is an opinion insofar as I cannot prove the dynamics of human consciousness. However all it takes is a moment of empathy for anybody to see the world outside the confines of their own senses. Stubbornness and ignorance will annihilate any possibility for one to think selflessly, so I can't debate something if you are predestined to have a strong biased feeling about it and are unwilling to consider any points other what you think you know to be correct. Don't you realize how much information you are dodging by being like that? Information which could even help you make a logical case for your stance on the subject.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Alyosha
05-11-2014, 07:05 AM
Who cares why someone is gay? No one here is being forced to be gay with them.

If someone wants to stay gay, awesome. If, like transexuals, they want to try to change something deeply seeded about them then let them.

It is not my business.

Max Rockatansky
05-11-2014, 07:20 AM
All I know is that some of you so called straight guys spend WAY too much time thinking about homosexuality.

Agreed. I think it goes to self-esteem. Strong, self-assured people don't give a shit about what others do that does not affect themselves while weak people try to give themselves assurance by putting down racial or religious minorities or any other group.

The Sage of Main Street
05-11-2014, 09:09 AM
It is an opinion insofar as I cannot prove the dynamics of human consciousness. However all it takes is a moment of empathy for anybody to see the world outside the confines of their own senses. Stubbornness and ignorance will annihilate any possibility for one to think selflessly, so I can't debate something if you are predestined to have a strong biased feeling about it and are unwilling to consider any points other what you think you know to be correct. Don't you realize how much information you are dodging by being like that? Information which could even help you make a logical case for your stance on the subject.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk More dishonesty from someone trying to push an agenda. You imply that if we don't come to your conclusions, we are ignorant or dismiss your claims too quickly.

Seriy
05-14-2014, 09:48 PM
Found this rare pic in internet
7412

spunkloaf
05-15-2014, 01:47 PM
More dishonesty from someone trying to push an agenda. You imply that if we don't come to your conclusions, we are ignorant or dismiss your claims too quickly.

It would really help if you actually read what I wrote. You're just being lazy, and nobody should take you seriously if that's the case.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

spunkloaf
05-16-2014, 08:11 PM
Found this rare pic in internet
7412

No need to justify your motives, but what kind of attention do you seek when sharing this kind of thing?

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Max Rockatansky
05-16-2014, 09:10 PM
No need to justify your motives, but what kind of attention do you seek when sharing this kind of thing?

He's seeking recognition of his manhood because he has proved he hates fags. Just a guess, but I'll put $20 on it.

spunkloaf
05-16-2014, 09:12 PM
He's seeking recognition of his manhood because he has proved he hates fags. Just a guess, but I'll put $20 on it.

My first inclination is that he wants to get a rise out of people, but in case there was something more profound and purposeful to it, I wanted to extend to him the benefit of the doubt.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Max Rockatansky
05-16-2014, 09:27 PM
My first inclination is that he wants to get a rise out of people, but in case there was something more profound and purposeful to it, I wanted to extend to him the benefit of the doubt.


A good point, but my point is that any person who "wants to get a rise out of people" is manipulative. Is his manipulation for good will or bad? Hard to tell from a single post. My humble suggestion when facing this puzzle is to click on the person's username. A little menu will pop up. Click "View Forum Posts" then scan down the list of their posts. Skim through 20-30 and you will have a pretty good idea of that person's demeanor, character and attitude on certain topics.

In Seriy's case, he's clearly homophobic.

spunkloaf
05-16-2014, 10:08 PM
A good point, but my point is that any person who "wants to get a rise out of people" is manipulative. Is his manipulation for good will or bad? Hard to tell from a single post. My humble suggestion when facing this puzzle is to click on the person's username. A little menu will pop up. Click "View Forum Posts" then scan down the list of their posts. Skim through 20-30 and you will have a pretty good idea of that person's demeanor, character and attitude on certain topics.

In Seriy's case, he's clearly homophobic.

It's his right to be I guess. That doesn't bug me. What bugs me is that he always reverts to a pretense that there is some gay agenda brewing. He acts like he is threatened by something, and even if I can't convince him otherwise, I'd like to know why he thinks that way. He's not the only one who acts this way, otherwise I wouldn't give it any more thought. If people are going to be accused, they should at least understand what the problem is that they apparently present. Gays in this instance. Otherwise to just lash out in hatred is unfair.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Max Rockatansky
05-17-2014, 08:10 AM
It's his right to be I guess. That doesn't bug me. What bugs me is that he always reverts to a pretense that there is some gay agenda brewing. He acts like he is threatened by something, and even if I can't convince him otherwise, I'd like to know why he thinks that way. He's not the only one who acts this way, otherwise I wouldn't give it any more thought. If people are going to be accused, they should at least understand what the problem is that they apparently present. Gays in this instance. Otherwise to just lash out in hatred is unfair.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Sure, it's his right to live his life as a homophobic asshole clinging to his archaic Russian values and pining for Mother Russia while seeking to tear down the USA and make it a backwater shithole like his mother country. It's my right to disagree with him and anyone else thinking the same way.

Alyosha
05-17-2014, 08:18 AM
There is more anti-gay violence in the US than any other large nation or western nation. People are reactionary in general. Gay rights went from 0 to 60 in a few short years and unfortunately a lot of that came through the courts. Had they continued the approach of state by state referendum, with door knocks and meet and greets I think a lot of the anxiety and fear would be decreased.

There is a price to using courts over legislatures and that reactionary backlash is it. Suddenly, people feel forced and they don't like that feeling.

I look at Maine. First, they said no because all these People From Away came in to try and push it on their state. So they regrouped and actually put out word that they ONLY wanted people who were gay from Maine and had 6 generation family there to go and do the door knocks and petitions. Then they were able to pass it.

If I were gay I wouldn't probably care (at first) how I got what I wanted if I got what I wanted, but there is a price to pay for it when you use force (courts) over persuasion (legislation).

I went door to door myself for the referendum in my state because I believe that's how to do it.

Max Rockatansky
05-17-2014, 08:22 AM
There is more anti-gay violence in the US than any other large nation or western nation.

Really? When did we start executing and/or imprisoning gays?

Alyosha
05-17-2014, 08:36 AM
Really? When did we start executing and/or imprisoning gays?

I said western nations because there is no competing with Islamic nutjobs for violence. I kinda hold us to a higher standard than people who treat their wives and girl children like cattle, don't you?

Max Rockatansky
05-17-2014, 06:51 PM
I said western nations because there is no competing with Islamic nutjobs for violence. I kinda hold us to a higher standard than people who treat their wives and girl children like cattle, don't you?

You said " other large nation" too. Although that's a relative term, Iran's population of 76M+, Iraq's 35M+ and Syria's 22M (getting smaller by the day!) would qualify.

spunkloaf
05-18-2014, 03:39 AM
Really? When did we start executing and/or imprisoning gays?

I sort of agree with Alyosha. Especially with countries like Russia getting recent attention for their anti-gay attitude, I understand your point. Frankly though, America is not exactly leaps and bounds ahead of that culture. Sure we have a populace with the majority being more open-minded, but look at how much the pros gay community is reciprocated with discontent. The issue I take with Americans who continue to oppose the gay "agenda" is that proponents of gay rights have worked diligently and fairly to make their case heard. But it's all for the fate to promote good reasons to people who cling tightly to their bibles and refuse to consider anybody else's reasons. The same people become angry when others think upon them as arrogant bigots, which at least shows that they care somewhat about the status quo. I only wish I could understand a person's motives for opposing something like gay rights when it has the most negligible effect on their own lives.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Max Rockatansky
05-18-2014, 07:56 AM
I sort of agree with Alyosha. Especially with countries like Russia getting recent attention for their anti-gay attitude, I understand your point. Frankly though, America is not exactly leaps and bounds ahead of that culture. ....

The fucking Russians are racing backwards as fast as they can. Eventually it will end, but it's going to be a rough ride for them over the next decade or so.

Alyosha's statement was "There is more anti-gay violence in the US than any other large nation or western nation." That's not true, but I'd be willing to listen to some factual data if any exist.

What's more likely is that, as in any free nation compared to backward oppressive states like Russia, Iran and Syria, is that acts of aggression against gays, women or other minorities receive more play in the media. In backward oppressive states, the media is controlled by the state and only publicizes official policy. Just because something isn't reported doesn't mean it doesn't happen and just because it is reported doesn't mean the problem is of epidemic proportions.

Mister D
05-18-2014, 08:26 AM
"Anti-gay attitudes"!? Send in the Marines!

Libhater
05-18-2014, 09:28 AM
"Anti-gay attitudes"!? Send in the Marines!

LOL, or send in the political correct police to make sure the gays get their day in court.

Max Rockatansky
05-18-2014, 09:46 AM
"Anti-gay attitudes"!? Send in the Marines!

No doubt some on the anti-military Left would do exactly that if given the chance!

Spectre
05-18-2014, 09:50 AM
Sorry my sympathy for gays is rapidly evaporating as they attempt to destroy one life and career after another if anyone has even whispered a word against gay marriage.

I'm starting to see open,aggressive homosexuality as one of the most corrosive, sterile, oppressive and destructive social movements of a time--our time--that has seen its share of such movements.

Alyosha
05-18-2014, 09:53 AM
The fucking Russians are racing backwards as fast as they can. Eventually it will end, but it's going to be a rough ride for them over the next decade or so.

Alyosha's statement was "There is more anti-gay violence in the US than any other large nation or western nation." That's not true, but I'd be willing to listen to some factual data if any exist.

What's more likely is that, as in any free nation compared to backward oppressive states like Russia, Iran and Syria, is that acts of aggression against gays, women or other minorities receive more play in the media. In backward oppressive states, the media is controlled by the state and only publicizes official policy. Just because something isn't reported doesn't mean it doesn't happen and just because it is reported doesn't mean the problem is of epidemic proportions.





I'm only basing it on "violence" such as assaults. We lead the world in those. Surprisingly, Russia allowed gays to serve openly in the military before the US, and have had employment laws that prevent discrimination before the US. In fact 6 years ahead of the US.

You're referring to the "anti-propaganda law", but it doesn't call out homosexuality, per say. Straight people have also been arrested under that law over what a town considered to be promoting living together over marriage.

It is a culture that is not where the US is in terms of sexual freedom, mostly because of their population issues.

We can disagree. I know you hate "fucking Russians" and that's okay. Best to part on the subject when we're so miles apart on it anyway. We'll just be screaming over the distance.

spunkloaf
05-18-2014, 11:35 AM
Sorry my sympathy for gays is rapidly evaporating as they attempt to destroy one life and career after another if anyone has even whispered a word against gay marriage.

I'm starting to see open,aggressive homosexuality as one of the most corrosive, sterile, oppressive and destructive social movements of a time--our time--that has seen its share of such movements.

It doesn't do a whole lot of good to observe a misunderstanding turn into anger, and then proceed to misunderstand that anger.

In other words, I'm certain you and others have experienced some unpleasant and inappropriate behavior from people whose opinions are stronger and different from yours on the gay marriage thing. If it's worth anything, I'm sorry that happened and I assure you that kind of thing is not what is meant by our actions (our=we who support gay rights). I'm trying personally to promote more discussion between people so at the very least folks can disagree, but also understand the good reasoning for it instead of assuming their opponent is simply arrogant. Sometimes, as I have found on this forum, there isn't even much to be discussed if somebody's opinion is mostly a matter of feeling rather than facts. It's easy to call that arrogance, but I don't know if that's fair.

Alyosha
05-18-2014, 11:38 AM
It doesn't do a whole lot of good to observe a misunderstanding turn into anger, and then proceed to misunderstand that anger.

In other words, I'm certain you and others have experienced some unpleasant and inappropriate behavior from people whose opinions are stronger and different from yours on the gay marriage thing. If it's worth anything, I'm sorry that happened and I assure you that kind of thing is not what is meant by our actions (our=we who support gay rights). I'm trying personally to promote more discussion between people so at the very least folks can disagree, but also understand the good reasoning for it instead of assuming their opponent is simply arrogant. Sometimes, as I have found on this forum, there isn't even much to be discussed if somebody's opinion is mostly a matter of feeling rather than facts. It's easy to call that arrogance, but I don't know if that's fair.
spunkloaf

that was kindly said.

spunkloaf
05-18-2014, 11:44 AM
"Anti-gay attitudes"!? Send in the Marines!

I deserve that. My words were not coming along as usual in my head that day. I could have spent an hour rewriting and thinking of better things....demeanor? Position? Yeah.

Besides. I'm spunkloaf, so...back off bitch.

spunkloaf
05-18-2014, 12:09 PM
LOL, or send in the political correct police to make sure the gays get their day in court.

What Mr. D posted was way funnier and would have sufficed without you piggy-backing on it with a predictably asinine "politically correct" joke.

With police to boot. The politically correct police. Just like the fashion police or the thought police, right? Too cute.

You should apologize to D for depreciating the real-estate of the baron wasteland where his unearthly sense of humor thrives.

I should mention, also. There really is no "politically correct." Something is either correct, or it isn't. It doesn't reflect so brilliantly upon yourself to be making fun of people because they strive for correctness. I would suppose you also laugh at hockey players for hitting the puck into the net. A game of pool must be a riot.

Max Rockatansky
05-18-2014, 01:45 PM
I'm only basing it on "violence" such as assaults. We lead the world in those.

Since there are no facts to back up that assertion, as stated previously, I would only go so far as to agree we lead the world in reports of gay assaults due to a free press and a media business which understands controversy is a money-maker.

Comparing the press in the US to that of Russia, Syria and Iran is apples and oranges.

Alyosha
05-18-2014, 01:56 PM
Since there are no facts to back up that assertion, as stated previously, I would only go so far as to agree we lead the world in reports of gay assaults due to a free press and a media business which understands controversy is a money-maker.

Comparing the press in the US to that of Russia, Syria and Iran is apples and oranges.

That's only according to our FBI. I posted the statistics on another thread. I'll try to dig them up later. The FBI does fudge political crimes, IMO, so you could be right.

Max Rockatansky
05-18-2014, 01:59 PM
That's only according to our FBI. I posted the statistics on another thread. I'll try to dig them up later. The FBI does fudge political crimes, IMO, so you could be right.

I'll look forward to the data. Why do you think the FBI fudges "political crimes"?

The Sage of Main Street
05-18-2014, 04:15 PM
I sort of agree with Alyosha. Especially with countries like Russia getting recent attention for their anti-gay attitude, I understand your point. Frankly though, America is not exactly leaps and bounds ahead of that culture. Sure we have a populace with the majority being more open-minded, but look at how much the pros gay community is reciprocated with discontent. The issue I take with Americans who continue to oppose the gay "agenda" is that proponents of gay rights have worked diligently and fairly to make their case heard. But it's all for the fate to promote good reasons to people who cling tightly to their bibles and refuse to consider anybody else's reasons. The same people become angry when others think upon them as arrogant bigots, which at least shows that they care somewhat about the status quo. I only wish I could understand a person's motives for opposing something like gay rights when it has the most negligible effect on their own lives.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk It's a concern for society and its future. People aren't just selfish. We have an instinct for group survival way into the future and Gayism activates that instinct. So we blindly lash out at it, just as you blindly convince yourself that it is harmless.

The Sage of Main Street
05-18-2014, 04:16 PM
Sorry my sympathy for gays is rapidly evaporating as they attempt to destroy one life and career after another if anyone has even whispered a word against gay marriage.

I'm starting to see open,aggressive homosexuality as one of the most corrosive, sterile, oppressive and destructive social movements of a time--our time--that has seen its share of such movements. With this nasty attitude, they expose themselves for the sick personalities that follow from their unnatural private life.

spunkloaf
05-18-2014, 05:42 PM
It's a concern for society and its future. People aren't just selfish. We have an instinct for group survival way into the future and Gayism activates that instinct. So we blindly lash out at it, just as you blindly convince yourself that it is harmless.


With this nasty attitude, they expose themselves for the sick personalities that follow from their unnatural private life.

Well this conversation can go one of two ways. I can point out your arrogance and become the self - fulfilling prophecy of "Liberals just label everybody else as arrogant bigots without any just cause which means they are the evil hateful ones"

-or-

You can explain how you came to this opinion of yours which is a strong opinion to say the least. Keep in mind you're talking to a gay guy, just to prove how cool I'm being in light if your post.


Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Alyosha
05-18-2014, 05:54 PM
Well this conversation can go one of two ways. I can point out your arrogance and become the self - fulfilling prophecy of "Liberals just label everybody else as arrogant bigots without any just cause which means they are the evil hateful ones"

-or-

You can explain how you came to this opinion of yours which is a strong opinion to say the least. Keep in mind you're talking to a gay guy, just to prove how cool I'm being in light if your post.


Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

spunkloaf tell him you're Jewish and you make only $100k a year. That will get him off your back.

The Xl
05-18-2014, 05:55 PM
I'd figure Sage would want anyone making 100K a year dead.

Alyosha
05-18-2014, 05:59 PM
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/19session/A.HRC.19.41_English.pdf

^^Global GLBT violence report

Alyosha
05-18-2014, 05:59 PM
I'd figure Sage would want anyone making 100K a year dead.

Under $375 remember? 1%

The Xl
05-18-2014, 06:00 PM
Under $375 remember? 1%

Ah. Forgot.

Arbitrary numbers for the win

Peter1469
05-18-2014, 06:02 PM
I'd figure Sage would want anyone making 100K a year dead.

Sucks to be me. But I am not worried. Have have skills. Be careful Sage!

spunkloaf
05-18-2014, 06:10 PM
spunkloaf tell him you're Jewish and you make only $100k a year. That will get him off your back.

I actually hope to some day get a meaningful conversation out of one of these fools. This sage guy so far is a perfect example of the difference between having a valid and educated opinion, and having nothing but low blows and choice words in an attempt to win a contest of logic using insults. As if the talent for name - calling is the way to make things happen for the betterment of society. But oops, it would be too politically correct of me to call anybody on that faul. They're much safer and content with the defamatory dialogue here in 'Mercuh.

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Alyosha
05-18-2014, 06:13 PM
I actually hope to some day get a meaningful conversation out of one of these fools. This sage guy so far is a perfect example of the difference between having a valid and educated opinion, and having nothing but low blows and choice words in an attempt to win a contest of logic using insults. As if the talent for name - calling is the way to make things happen for the betterment of society. But oops, it would be too politically correct of me to call anybody on that faul. They're much safer and content with the defamatory dialogue here in 'Mercuh.

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Yes, but spunkloaf you get that Skeletor is far cooler than He-Man so beyond all that other junk, what do they have on you?

Fuck 'em!

spunkloaf
05-18-2014, 06:26 PM
Yes, but @spunkloaf (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=11) you get that Skeletor is far cooler than He-Man so beyond all that other junk, what do they have on you?

Fuck 'em!

Because no matter how much I want to ignore the controversy and live a happier life not worrying about it, I'm still always going to run into people who will perpetuate that disagreeable mindset. The least I can do if not convince people how much better it is that they concede and see things my way is to instead understand what makes them tick. But thank you for that reference, I hadn't even made that brain-over-braun connection with Skeletor.

There's obviously something provoking people to become so angry that they lash out the way they do, and I honestly have yet to discover what it is. So far I've heard "Because I'm a straight man who likes vagina and I'm sick of gay guys ALWAYS hitting on me." That is usually something an ugly-as-hell dude will say, so it's easy to immediately determine that's a lie.

Alyosha
05-18-2014, 06:36 PM
Because no matter how much I want to ignore the controversy and live a happier life not worrying about it, I'm still always going to run into people who will perpetuate that disagreeable mindset. The least I can do if not convince people how much better it is that they concede and see things my way is to instead understand what makes them tick. But thank you for that reference, I hadn't even made that brain-over-braun connection with Skeletor.

Well, I think that you're going about it the right way by engaging people, and you don't get uber angry and honestly that helps. Read the Tao of Equs. Treat people like horses and you can have any conversation.




There's obviously something provoking people to become so angry that they lash out the way they do, and I honestly have yet to discover what it is. So far I've heard "Because I'm a straight man who likes vagina and I'm sick of gay guys ALWAYS hitting on me." That is usually something an ugly-as-hell dude will say, so it's easy to immediately determine that's a lie.

I've had that conversation with a cute guy that does get hit on by gay men, as well as, women. I've seen it happen. My response was, at first, what's the difference? Because to me if you don't like someone what difference does it make what sex they are, right?

He feels that it breaks a trust issue between dudes, that dudes are supposed to be able to relax with each other and talk shit.

Maybe that helps? Like if they know you're gay ahead of time but then like you say, "I may not like vagina but I sure as hell like (insert stupid sporting event here)". That way the trust is not broken.

Also, many of my gay friends don't like vagina or women sexually but they like Salma Hayeks chichis. That's a bond thing, since I don't think straight guys fascination with breasts is as sexual as it is some kind of mother thing.

I dunno, just throwing stuff out there.

becks
05-18-2014, 06:43 PM
Spunkloaf?!!?!?!?!? LMFAO.......10 Points to Gryffindor for that SN.

spunkloaf
05-18-2014, 06:46 PM
Well, I think that you're going about it the right way by engaging people, and you don't get uber angry and honestly that helps. Read the Tao of Equs. Treat people like horses and you can have any conversation.

That's awesome! It's so simple. Treat people like horses.


:deadhorse:

:deadhorse2:




I've had that conversation with a cute guy that does get hit on by gay men, as well as, women. I've seen it happen. My response was, at first, what's the difference? Because to me if you don't like someone what difference does it make what sex they are, right?

He feels that it breaks a trust issue between dudes, that dudes are supposed to be able to relax with each other and talk shit.

Maybe that helps? Like if they know you're gay ahead of time but then like you say, "I may not like vagina but I sure as hell like (insert stupid sporting event here)". That way the trust is not broken.

Also, many of my gay friends don't like vagina or women sexually but they like Salma Hayeks chichis. That's a bond thing, since I don't think straight guys fascination with breasts is as sexual as it is some kind of mother thing.

I dunno, just throwing stuff out there.

Don't get me wrong. I hit on straight dudes. There is definitely a weird fetish that exists for that. But ya know, in my experience, most straight guys are cool and comfortable enough to give the no-go signal in that situation, and that's all anybody needs to see in order to stop their advances. Rarely do I see any man or woman, gay or straight, pursue somebody after being told no.

Alyosha
05-18-2014, 06:48 PM
Don't get me wrong. I hit on straight dudes. There is definitely a weird fetish that exists for that. But ya know, in my experience, most straight guys are cool and comfortable enough to give the no-go signal in that situation, and that's all anybody needs to see in order to stop their advances. Rarely do I see any man or woman, gay or straight, pursue somebody after being told no.

We're talking about men, right? Men on planet earth? hahaha. You need a bat to get a drunk guy to stop talking to you. Guys do not respect the N-O.

spunkloaf
05-18-2014, 07:18 PM
We're talking about men, right? Men on planet earth? hahaha. You need a bat to get a drunk guy to stop talking to you. Guys do not respect the N-O.

That's what I mean by rarely...but I'd also like to be able to teach some women a thing or two about how to effectively say no. I can think of a couple women I know who complained that their male friends don't stop bothering them, and I know it's because they're laughing and smiling while they are repelling their men away. If the mouth says no but the body language says yes, plenty of men would miss the clue and continue the behavior.

Alyosha
05-18-2014, 07:20 PM
That's what I mean by rarely...but I'd also like to be able to teach some women a thing or two about how to effectively say no. I can think of a couple women I know who complained that their male friends don't stop bothering them, and I know it's because they're laughing and smiling while they are repelling their men away. If the mouth says no but the body language says yes, plenty of men would miss the clue and continue the behavior.


My exact words were: I wouldn't fuck you even with someone else's body.

That's pretty much a good, firm, no, right? :)

Seriy
05-18-2014, 08:15 PM
LOL and LOL
7506

The Sage of Main Street
05-19-2014, 08:29 AM
"Anti-gay attitudes"!? Send in the Marines! Following orders from the Gayist Agenda, the Marines must stop wearing dress blues and instead wear blue dresses.

The Sage of Main Street
05-19-2014, 08:46 AM
You can explain how you came to this opinion of yours which is a strong opinion to say the least. Keep in mind you're talking


I got a job where there were a lot of gay customers and concluded that they had a psychological disorder of immaturity, pettiness, pushiness, and addictive obsession. Gayists are probably better off going back into the closet. Although today's straight Americans won't assert themselves against unfit and undesirable cliques, sooner or later they'll man up and things will suddenly become worse for you than ever before.

Paperback Writer
05-19-2014, 08:49 AM
I got a job where there were a lot of gay customers and concluded that they had a psychological disorder of immaturity, pettiness, pushiness, and addictive obsession. Gayists are probably better off going back into the closet. Although today's straight Americans won't assert themselves against unfit and undesirable cliques, sooner or later they'll man up and things will suddenly become worse for you than ever before.

When the revolution happens do wake us, yeh? :roflmao:

The Sage of Main Street
05-19-2014, 08:53 AM
I'd figure Sage would want anyone making 100K a year dead.


Sucks to be me. But I am not worried. Have skills. Be careful Sage! Your bag of petty, irrelevant, and illogical rebuttals must have been pre-owned for the green eggs and ham lunch that Paul Ryan's Mommy made him.

The Sage of Main Street
05-19-2014, 08:56 AM
I'd figure Sage would want anyone making 100K a year dead.


Sucks to be me. But I am not worried. Have skills. Be careful Sage! Your bag of petty, weak, irrelevant, and illogical rebuttals must have been pre-owned for the green eggs and ham lunch that Paul Ryan's Mommy made him.

Paperback Writer
05-19-2014, 09:00 AM
Your bag of petty, weak, irrelevant, and illogical rebuttals must have been pre-owned for the green eggs and ham lunch that Paul Ryan's Mommy made him.

Why don't you really fix them both by sounding the horns for your great revolution? Or will the sound of your bugles wake your aging parents in the upstairs? :laugh:

The Sage of Main Street
05-19-2014, 09:04 AM
Because no matter how much I want to ignore the controversy and live a happier life not worrying about it, I'm still always going to run into people who will perpetuate that disagreeable mindset. I can convince people how much better it is that they concede and see things my way

There's obviously something provoking people . Even in debate, Gayists are afraid of tangling with opposites.

The Sage of Main Street
05-19-2014, 09:14 AM
I'd also like to be able to teach some women a thing or two about how to effectively say no. I can think of a couple of women I know who complained that their male friends don't stop bothering them, and I know it's because they're laughing and smiling while they are repelling their men away. If the mouth says no but the body language says yes, plenty of men would miss the clue and continue the behavior. You giving advice to women? Your delusions of being normal have hit a new high in your narcotic fantasy about yourself.

Paperback Writer
05-19-2014, 09:15 AM
Even in debate, Gayists are afraid of tangling with opposites.

Oi The Sage of Main Street

Your inability to dialogue is why your revolutionary aspirations will only ever be shite. You couldn't engage a can opener much less debate or lead a revolt. Do keep on with your useless pronouncements whilst the rest of us talk like sensible men and women who don't eat bath salts for tea.

spunkloaf
05-19-2014, 01:47 PM
My exact words were: I wouldn't fuck you even with someone else's body.

That's pretty much a good, firm, no, right? :)

Actually that would seem good, but even that could be misinterpreted by some with thicker skulls. No means no. Stop means stop. Neither one of those words are in the sentance you said, and the use of phrases like "fuck you" and "someone else's body" are ironically more likely to further sexually excite the man than put him off. Not that it's ever a woman's fault if she can't get a man to stop bugging her, but just some helpful insight.

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spunkloaf
05-19-2014, 02:05 PM
I got a job where there were a lot of gay customers and concluded that they had a psychological disorder of immaturity, pettiness, pushiness, and addictive obsession. Gayists are probably better off going back into the closet. Although today's straight Americans won't assert themselves against unfit and undesirable cliques, sooner or later they'll man up and things will suddenly become worse for you than ever before.

So you were in an isolated situation where you were merely annoyed by a number of people who happened to be gay men. I'd probably be annoyed by the behavior you described too. What about gay men like myself who are more behaved like straight men? Most people I interact with can't tell, and even my friends who know me forget that I'm gay. But I wonder, do I still present a problem even though I'm less annoying?

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spunkloaf
05-19-2014, 02:12 PM
Even in debate, Gayists are afraid of tangling with opposites.

Not at all. You don't scare me. I'm curious, even. Your anger and hatred is annoying at best, but you could probably guess that I've delt with the same attitude in many others for a long, long time. I bet I could explain your psychology and your demeanor regarding homosexuality better than you yourself can understand it. But I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow you the opportunity to show me who knows more of what they talk about in our discussion here.

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Mister D
05-19-2014, 02:21 PM
Not at all. You don't scare me. I'm curious, even. Your anger and hatred is annoying at best, but you could probably guess that I've delt with the same attitude in many others for a long, long time. I bet I could explain your psychology and your demeanor regarding homosexuality better than you yourself can understand it. But I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow you the opportunity to show me who knows more of what they talk about in our discussion here.

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To be fair, he seems to hate everything not just gays.

spunkloaf
05-19-2014, 02:40 PM
To be fair, he seems to hate everything not just gays.

Then he's obviously a troubled soul. I kinda gathered that. Most people who are adamantly opposed to one thing are more likely to find other things to be just as deplorable.

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The Sage of Main Street
05-20-2014, 03:15 PM
Oi @The Sage of Main Street (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=828) Your inability to dialogue is why your revolutionary aspirations will only ever be shite. You couldn't engage a can opener much less debate or lead a revolt. Do keep on with your pronouncements whilst the rest of us talk like men and women who eat bath salts for tea. I'm sure I'm going to take advice from degenerate jealous misfits with a Death Wish who desire to drag the rest of us down into their Brit Twit pit.

The Sage of Main Street
05-20-2014, 03:23 PM
So you were in an isolated situation where you were merely annoyed by a number of people who happened to be gay men. I'd probably be annoyed by the behavior you described too. What about gay men like myself who are more behaved like straight men? Most people I interact with can't tell, and even my friends who know me forget that I'm gay. But I wonder, do I still present a problem even though I'm less annoying?

You are even more annoying. Like what you did just now, dishonestly pretending that I met an atypical group of Gayists and base my opinions on only that one experience. I'd keep in your bubble of fairyphiles if I were you. Better be pretty shy around normal people.

Alyosha
05-20-2014, 03:27 PM
You are even more annoying. Like what you did just now, dishonestly pretending that I met an atypical group of Gayists and base my opinions on only that one experience. I'd keep in your bubble of fairyphiles if I were you. Better be pretty shy around normal people.

How would you feel if someone said something like this to you, something that mean and personal, rejected something about you that you cannot change?

How would you feel?

The Sage of Main Street
05-20-2014, 03:29 PM
Not at all. You don't scare me. I'm curious, even. Your anger and hatred is annoying at best, but you could probably guess that I've dealt with the same attitude in many others for a long, long time. I bet I could explain your psychology and your demeanor regarding homosexuality better than you yourself can understand it. But I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow you the opportunity to show me who knows more of what they talk about in our discussion here.

For once, I wouldn't say you are dishonest as much as deluding yourself. People today are intimidated from confronting Gayists, so you are not exposed to their hidden or suppressed feelings of disgust. Besides, I have a deeper analysis of the perversion than we are allowed to know from the self-appointed experts.

The Sage of Main Street
05-20-2014, 03:36 PM
Then he's obviously a troubled soul. I kinda gathered that. Most people who are adamantly opposed to one thing are more likely to find other things to be just as deplorable.

Another thing, as long as we're talking about this imaginary Troubled Sage character. You always talk as if powerful and respected people have given you the go ahead and exclusive right to be right. I believe society is upside-down and wouldn't feel honored and enabled by any self-appointed authority anointed by the celebrity-hound media.

Paperback Writer
05-20-2014, 03:51 PM
Another thing, as long as we're talking about this imaginary Troubled Sage character. You always talk as if powerful and respected people have given you the go ahead and exclusive right to be right. I believe society is upside-down and wouldn't feel honored and enabled by any self-appointed authority anointed by the celebrity-hound media.

I wouldn't call you "troubled" as much as I would describe you as being completely fucking daft. Troubled seems too weak a descriptor.

Germanicus
05-21-2014, 04:14 AM
I kinda wish I was gay. I dont see how you can convert a person really. lLke I would dress up as a girl and be emasculated and stuff. But even if I wanted to I couldnt drink a guys seaman. Thats just disgusting. And homosexual stuff disgusts me. I couldnt put a cock inside me. Not a real one anyway. (: So Im just not gay. Im pretty sure Im almost gay or something. And I dont think there is anything anyone could do to make me actually gay. So I dont see how it could work in reverse.

spunkloaf
05-21-2014, 04:54 PM
Another thing, as long as we're talking about this imaginary Troubled Sage character. You always talk as if powerful and respected people have given you the go ahead and exclusive right to be right. I believe society is upside-down and wouldn't feel honored and enabled by any self-appointed authority anointed by the celebrity-hound media.

No, I just talk with common courtesy.

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Paperback Writer
05-21-2014, 05:09 PM
No, I just talk with common courtesy.

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You realise you're speaking to a crazy person, yeh?