Why the Left Really is against Voter ID Laws

[Agravan]

By Eugene Slaven (http://www.americanthinker.com/eugene_slaven/)

The crusade against voter ID laws is the new front in the Left's perennial campaign to convince Americans that Jim Crow is lurking just around the corner.

Left-wing activists and Democrat politicians argue that these laws disproportionately disqualify minorities. They further contend that voter ID laws are pushed by Republicans for the explicit purpose of suppressing the minority vote. Ergo, they insist, the intent of voter ID laws is racist.

It is of little concern to the Left and their allies in the "news" media that a supermajority of white and non-white Americans supports these laws (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-08-11/politics/35492005_1_voter-id-laws-voter-suppression-voter-fraud), that jurisdictions with these laws in place saw an increase in black and Hispanic voter turnout (http://spectator.org/archives/2013/08/20/for-democrats-turnout-trumps-h/print) in 2012, or that the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that voter ID laws are constitutional (http://archive.redstate.com/stories/the_courts/breaking_supreme_court_rejects_challenge_to_indian a_voter_id_law).

The Left is just as unmoved by the argument that there are virtually no barriers to acquiring a state issued ID, that an ID is required to drive a car, get a job, and rent an apartment, or that the assumption that black people are not as capable of getting an ID as white people is itself inherently racist.

No. When it comes to the issue of voter IDs, facts, logic, empirical evidence, and common sense cannot get in the way of leveling the libelous charge that racist Republicans are committed to stopping minorities from voting.

We can chalk the Left's position on voter IDs to opportunism: they know that voter IDs can, at least in theory, mitigate election fraud and potentially lower Democrat turnout. But this explanation overlooks the larger point: the Left's opposition to voter IDs is rooted in its ambivalence to representative democracy.

For the far left, elections are a means to an end. So long as elections lead to liberal Democrats implementing a leftist agenda, they are desirable. But if Americans elect conservatives who implement an agenda antithetical to the Left's world view, then elections are impediments to utopia. In other words, the Left does not place intrinsic value on elections. Above all, the Left values an intrusive federal government equipped with the power to manage (or micromanage) all sectors of society for the supposed betterment of humanity.

This is in stark contrast to conservatives and libertarians, who do place intrinsic value on elections. Not because elections always yield desirable results (we know they don't) but because representative democracy is necessary to a free and just society. It's not sufficient; there must be the rule of law inscribed in a Constitution that limits the power of elected officials and protects individual rights form majoritarian abuse. And as we saw in Nazi Germany and more recently in Egypt during the short reign of the Muslim Brotherhood, it is possible for despots to come to power democratically.

Yet democracy is the only means for holding the State accountable. As such, for conservatives, and specifically for constitutionalists, representative democracy is inherently good, regardless of electoral outcomes. As Winston Churchill quipped, democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried.

And because conservatives value representative democracy as a good in itself, we value the integrity of the electoral process. If elections are fraught with fraud and corruption, then representative democracy is a farce. (Saddam Hussein was technically democratically re-elected every seven years with 100% of the vote.)

Voter ID laws help preserve the integrity of elections and limit electoral fraud by simply ensuring that the person voting is who he says he is and that he is legally registered to vote. It's not a perfect system -- there is no such thing -- but it's a perfectly rational one.

For the Left, voter ID laws are tantamount to the poll tax and other discriminatory measures that have been obsolete for decades. For all the reasons listed above, this is a nonsensical position.

But because the Left does not inherently value representative democracy and sees it only as a means to Big Government, neither do leftists care about the integrity of the system. If voter ID laws make it more difficult for homeless people, dead people, felons, and other illegitimate voters to vote Democrat, then voter ID laws are barriers to leftist utopia.

The Bolsheviks (or Social Democrats as they liked to be called) held one election after seizing power in Russia. When to their shock they did not win the majority of the seats in Russia's parliament, they swiftly nullified the results, murdered in cold blood thousands of Russians protesting the injustice, and never held elections again.

I am not equating the American Left to the Russian Communist Party. My point is that the far left is a friend of democracy only when democracy serves to advance the left's agenda. If elections can be rigged to advance that agenda, then the means justify the end.

For most conservatives, the Left's visceral opposition to voter ID laws is a ploy to increase illegitimate Democratic turnout. For most Americans who are not political, the opposition is bizarre and nonsensical. The underlying logic of the far left is against common sense measures that preserve the integrity of elections because they pursue utopia, not a system of checks and balances.


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2013/08/why_the_left_really_is_against_voter_id_laws.html

[Libhater]

The left also advocate for the motor voter law that would allow lazy government dependents (always leftists) to vote from the convenience of their one-room shanty in the ghetto. The left has set up Sanctuary cities and pushed through a version of the Dream Act so as to ensure illegals will some day get to vote the straight Dem ticket (if they're not doing it already). And to think these leftists still insist on playing the race card by claiming voter I.D. laws are preventing their hapless contingency from voting in the first place. These people are a joke.

[jillian]

What nonsense..... your own politicial leaders have said outright it was to suppress democratic votes.

same old same old southern strategy from the radical right.

and, for the ten thousandth time, please show us where all your fantasmagorical 'voter fraud' is, except on the right, of course.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/PA-GOP-chair-says-voter-ID-helped-cut-Obama-margin.html

[Trinnity]

Let's get real here. Voter ID laws interfere with the dems ability to steal elections. Everyone knows it.

To hear grown adults stand up there in front of the Lincoln memorial the other day and praise Trayvon Martin - a career criminal in the making - and claim voter ID laws are an overturning of the voters rights act is a LIE a huge disrespect to Dr. King's work. It's low-down dirty and diminishes what respect I have for black people in general. You can't go around telling lies and whining to get what you want, like a little kid, and expect other people NOT to have contempt for it. Such manipulations are transparent.

[jillian]

Let's get real here. Voter ID laws interfere with the dems ability to steal elections. Everyone knows it.

To hear grown adults stand up there in front of the Lincoln memorial the other day and praise Trayvon Martin - a career criminal in the making - and claim voter ID laws are an overturning of the voters rights act is a LIE a huge disrespect to Dr. King's work. It's low-down dirty and diminishes what respect I have for black people in general. You can't go around telling lies and whining to get what you want, like a little kid, and expect other people NOT to have contempt for it. Such manipulations are transparent.

you can keep saying things like that honey, but the only ones using voter ID to "steal" elections are rightwingers.

Or are your own leaders lying about that?

keep on keeping on, hon.

and feel free to keep disparaging the memory of a young man who didn't do anything wrong.

then you can keep crying and sobbing that you lose elections because people "like free stuff".

[patrickt]

you can keep saying things like that honey, but the only ones using voter ID to "steal" elections are rightwingers.

Or are your own leaders lying about that?

keep on keeping on, hon.

and feel free to keep disparaging the memory of a young man who didn't do anything wrong.

then you can keep crying and sobbing that you lose elections because people "like free stuff".

You can keep saying things like that, Sweetie Pie, but you have no talent for lying. Consistent practice but no talent. You go from quoting a nobody and pretending he's a leader and then you shift to the plural leaders. Can we be far from a silly Jillian claim that all Republicans say whatever fantasy she has.

Oh, yes, Trayvon Martin, the liberal saint. A burglar who enjoyed making at least one man bleed and wanted to make him bleed more. A young man who, for Jillian, did nothing wrong. And how does she know that? She's psychic.

The Democrat giggles about "vote early; vote often" and laughing about "Resurrection Day" when the dead rise up and vote tells us what Voter ID laws are all about election fraud. And, "vote early, vote often" and "Resurrection Day" gigglers aren't some nobody in Pennsylvania. It's the Democrat Party.

The Motor Voter Law which the Democrats passed to facilitate election fraud also allowed foreign nationals to register to vote. I live in Mexico and have had two Mexico laughing as they showed me their U.S. voter registration card. Here they need a photo ID to vote. The doesn't make it impossible for the Mexican Democrat Party, the PRI, to quit cheating but it makes it harder.

[jillian]

prove your "election fraud" on the left or stop whining.

you sure as hell weren't worried about it when Diebold promised baby bush he'd "make sure" that baby bush won Ohio... using Diebold voting machines.

Reality: the radical right suddenly loves voter ID laws because you know you lose if anyone votes aside from old white people.

hence pathetic efforts like Florida keeping schools from registering students to vote.

[Trinnity]

you can keep saying things like that honey, but the only ones using voter ID to "steal" elections are rightwingers.

Or are your own leaders lying about that?

keep on keeping on, hon.

and feel free to keep disparaging the memory of a young man who didn't do anything wrong.

then you can keep crying and sobbing that you lose elections because people "like free stuff".He did plenty wrong and he got what he deserved. Good riddance. And you can save your BULL SHIT for someone else; I ain't buying it.

I'm not a republican, I'm a libertarian. I respect Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, and Trey Gowdy. The rest of the Republicans can go to hell for all I care.

I'm not your hon.

[Mainecoons]

prove your "election fraud" on the left or stop whining.

you sure as hell weren't worried about it when Diebold promised baby bush he'd "make sure" that baby bush won Ohio... using Diebold voting machines.

Reality: the radical right suddenly loves voter ID laws because you know you lose if anyone votes aside from old white people.

hence pathetic efforts like Florida keeping schools from registering students to vote.

Frankel.

[jillian]

He did plenty wrong and he got what he deserved. Good riddance. And you can save your BULL SHIT for someone else; I ain't buying it.

I'm not a republican, I'm a libertarian. I respect Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, and Trey Gowdy. The rest of the Republicans can go to hell for all I care.

I'm not your hon.

suuuuuuuure... you're not a republican.

you just vote for them. '

lmao

i don't really care what you "buy" snooks. the right is fauxraging about this for one reason... sore losers.

[patrickt]

prove your "election fraud" on the left or stop whining.

you sure as hell weren't worried about it when Diebold promised baby bush he'd "make sure" that baby bush won Ohio... using Diebold voting machines.

Reality: the radical right suddenly loves voter ID laws because you know you lose if anyone votes aside from old white people.

hence pathetic efforts like Florida keeping schools from registering students to vote.

Why should I quit whining when you refuse to quit lying?
Liberals are so gosh-darned cute:
"MIAMI -- A judge upheld a former Miami city commissioner's vote-fraud conviction Thursday even though the man's attorney was having an affair with his wife.U.S. District Judge James Lawrence King refused to grant Humberto Hernandez a new trial.
Hernandez was convicted in August 1998 of a misdemeanor for covering up corruption in the rigged 1997 mayoral election. He began serving his 364-day jail term in December and could be released this summer."
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2002-05-10/news/0205100223_1_conviction-miami-city-commissioner-retry

Jillian, if you read something besides the Daily Kos or it's print version, the New York Times or watched something besides MSNBC you would be aware of election fraud. But, you're happy with your fingers in your ears and going, "Yadayadayadayada." It's the only way liberals can get by.

The left is opposed to laws to reduce election fraud for the simple reason that the are in the party of election fraud and desperately need to maintain election fraud. The left favors laws to facilitate election fraud for the same reason. That would be laws like motor voter law which allows foreign nationals to register to vote, same day registration, anonymous voting, and laws that permit Democrat thugs to go to nursing homes and coerce the elderly into signing already completed absentee ballots. My personal favorite from history was Sen. Gore's demand that Democrats be allowed to declare, by psychic examination, that a ballot marked for Bush was really for Gore.

Democrats, and liberals, have no sense of shame because they have no sense of responsibility.

[Libhater]

Democrats, and liberals, have no sense of shame because they have no sense of responsibility.

I won't take the time to list the dozens of examples of how liberals shun responsibility for everything in their lives by claiming victimhood, by being envious, by playing class warfare, by seeking wealth redistribution etc., but I will point out that Conservatives do just the opposite; they accept responsibility for everything they do in their lives.

[Chris]

For the far left, elections are a means to an end. So long as elections lead to liberal Democrats implementing a leftist agenda, they are desirable. But if Americans elect conservatives who implement an agenda antithetical to the Left's world view, then elections are impediments to utopia. In other words, the Left does not place intrinsic value on elections. Above all, the Left values an intrusive federal government equipped with the power to manage (or micromanage) all sectors of society for the supposed betterment of humanity.

This is in stark contrast to conservatives and libertarians, who do place intrinsic value on elections. Not because elections always yield desirable results (we know they don't) but because representative democracy is necessary to a free and just society. It's not sufficient; there must be the rule of law inscribed in a Constitution that limits the power of elected officials and protects individual rights form majoritarian abuse. And as we saw in Nazi Germany and more recently in Egypt during the short reign of the Muslim Brotherhood, it is possible for despots to come to power democratically.


Exactly.

I think in general it's true liberal progressives value ends by any means, conservatives and libertarian see value in the means and trust that will lead to the right ends.

[Chris]

What nonsense..... your own politicial leaders have said outright it was to suppress democratic votes.

same old same old southern strategy from the radical right.

and, for the ten thousandth time, please show us where all your fantasmagorical 'voter fraud' is, except on the right, of course.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/PA-GOP-chair-says-voter-ID-helped-cut-Obama-margin.html


you can keep saying things like that honey, but the only ones using voter ID to "steal" elections are rightwingers.

Or are your own leaders lying about that?

keep on keeping on, hon.

and feel free to keep disparaging the memory of a young man who didn't do anything wrong.

then you can keep crying and sobbing that you lose elections because people "like free stuff".


prove your "election fraud" on the left or stop whining.

you sure as hell weren't worried about it when Diebold promised baby bush he'd "make sure" that baby bush won Ohio... using Diebold voting machines.

Reality: the radical right suddenly loves voter ID laws because you know you lose if anyone votes aside from old white people.

hence pathetic efforts like Florida keeping schools from registering students to vote.


suuuuuuuure... you're not a republican.

you just vote for them. '

lmao

i don't really care what you "buy" snooks. the right is fauxraging about this for one reason... sore losers.



Isolate out jillian's rants and cants and see it for what it is.

She makes claims she won't and likely can't back up but hypocritically demands others prove things.

She insults insisting she knows you better than you do.

The only one fauxraging here is jillian. Her posts are hysterical (pun intended).

[Agravan]

There have been plenty of examples of voter fraud perpetrated by the left. jillian, and most of the left, are just turning a blind eye to it because it serves their purpose. besides, it's only fraud if the right does it.
I mean, it's totally believable that in a city of ten thousand registered voters, Obama can get 15000 votes and Romney 0 votes. Who could argue that there was any fraud involved there? It's nothing to the Dems and libs to have over 100% turnout. Or to have lifelong Republican voters suddenly voting Democrat for years after they have passed away. No fraud there, death has just changed their perspective, right, jillian? After all, we can't disenfranchise the dead or Pablo, Juan, Mohammed or various other "undocumented citizens" from voting, can we?
And yes, jillian, there are documented cases that have already been posted here.

[Mainecoons]

I have personally witnessed it as a poll worker. I have also explained how it can be done in such a way as to basically be undetectable. To repeat:

Fraudsters check obsolete voter rolls, find the dead and moved, send in shills who go from precinct to precinct voting in different names in each one.

Fraudsters register students at schools and they vote both there and absentee at home.

Fraudsters file fraudulent absentee ballot applications and then vote them.

This is how Democrats win close elections like Frankel. Been there, seen it personally. Exactly why I am a strong advocate of the Mexican voter ID system. No need for voter rolls, no absentee ballot fraud, impossible to vote twice because you can only go to the voting place nearest your address.

Simple is better.

[Agravan]

I have personally witnessed it as a poll worker. I have also explained how it can be done in such a way as to basically be undetectable. To repeat:

Fraudsters check obsolete voter rolls, find the dead and moved, send in shills who go from precinct to precinct voting in different names in each one.

Fraudsters register students at schools and they vote both there and absentee at home.

Fraudsters file fraudulent absentee ballot applications and then vote them.

This is how Democrats win close elections like Frankel. Been there, seen it personally. Exactly why I am a strong advocate of the Mexican voter ID system. No need for voter rolls, no absentee ballot fraud, impossible to vote twice because you can only go to the voting place nearest your address.

Simple is better.

This is where jillian or Marie respond with "I don't believe you".

[Mainecoons]

Denial is their problem, not mine. And they have a serious case of it.

:grin:

[TheDictator]

and feel free to keep disparaging the memory of a young man who didn't do anything wrong.

.

NOT True he attacked a man and it cost him his life.

[Mainecoons]

Some memory. Drug user, juvenile delinquent, race hater. Nice kid.

Dumb kid. Dead kid.

Clearly a suitable icon for liberals.

[ptif219]

What nonsense..... your own politicial leaders have said outright it was to suppress democratic votes.

same old same old southern strategy from the radical right.

and, for the ten thousandth time, please show us where all your fantasmagorical 'voter fraud' is, except on the right, of course.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/PA-GOP-chair-says-voter-ID-helped-cut-Obama-margin.html


You mean to stop democrat voter fraud

[Singularity]

You mean to stop democrat voter fraudKeep at it, sir. At this point, from all the evidence I've ever seen, for every
Democratic "fraudster" you prevent from voting, you piss off two more
absolutely legitimate voters you cannot do a thing about... people who might
have stayed home or voted third party or what have you.

This whole scheme is a total loser. The "problem" is grossly exaggerated,
it is being pushed with a dishonest motive in at least a few sectors -- that's
documented, unlike the "problem" -- the "solution" you back is most likely
ineffective at combating the "problem" described, it likely does more harm
than good -- also documented, in the 2012 election -- and in any reasonable
political sense, is completely counter-productive.

I really did allow myself to get outraged about this not long ago. These days,
all I can do is laugh. Chalk it up to an initial sense of alarm when I saw my
rival standing on a crack, a sense that grew into humor when I came to realize
that as the chasm has widened, he's preferred to do the splits versus simply
shift to solid ground. I wonder if he'll ever quit.

[ptif219]

Keep at it, sir. At this point, from all the evidence I've ever seen, for every
Democratic "fraudster" you prevent from voting, you piss off two more
absolutely legitimate voters you cannot do a thing about... people who might
have stayed home or voted third party or what have you.

This whole scheme is a total loser. The "problem" is grossly exaggerated,
it is being pushed with a dishonest motive in at least a few sectors -- that's
documented, unlike the "problem" -- the "solution" you back is most likely
ineffective at combating the "problem" described, it likely does more harm
than good -- also documented, in the 2012 election -- and in any reasonable
political sense, is completely counter-productive.

I really did allow myself to get outraged about this not long ago. These days,
all I can do is laugh. Chalk it up to an initial sense of alarm when I saw my
rival standing on a crack, a sense that grew into humor when I came to realize
that as the chasm has widened, he's preferred to do the splits versus simply
shift to solid ground. I wonder if he'll ever quit.

Even the UN can not understand why there is no ID

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/united-nations-election-observers-astonished-the-us-does-not-demand-voter-id-are-the-united-na/question-3303435/?link=ibaf&q=&esrc=s

[Singularity]

Even the UN can not understand why there is no IDI actually agree, why can't we just pass a national system of fairly implemented
and regulated voter registration and credentials? It's not like it would constitute
federal overreach. If it would in any way be conceivably unconstitutional to use
federal identification to secure voting, especially for federal offices, then it would
by direct extension be unconstitutional to use federal documents for travel.

[GrassrootsConservative]

and, for the ten thousandth time, please show us where all your fantasmagorical 'voter fraud' is, except on the right, of course.

Here you go, @jillian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=719):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QNZ2z2Cr4o

CNN reporter: "I think that's against the law but that's ok."

Totally cool with criminal activities. He thinks it's "ok" as do all other CRIMINAL LIBERAL DEGENERATE SCUM.

[GrumpyDog]

I am a Liberal Democrat at the moment, and my opposition to new voting laws, is related to my own experience of being required to show SIX forms of ID to renew my expired DL in Florida in 2012. I was particularly insulted, because I was a combat veteran in the US army and they would NOT accept my DD214 form proving my honorable discharge as a valid form of ID.

My opposition is also related to elderly, physicallly impaired, and other persons who may not have a car,thus have no DL, who could just as well be Republicans as they are Democrats or other party. I think its an uncessary added burden for them, and I do not see enough of a fraud problem to warrant changing a system that has been working well enough for the last several decades of elections.

[Mainecoons]

Yes, it has worked very well for liberal Democrats who want to steal close elections. Since you are one, we can understand your satisfaction with this set up.

:grin:

[Chris]

I actually agree, why can't we just pass a national system of fairly implemented
and regulated voter registration and credentials? It's not like it would constitute
federal overreach. If it would in any way be conceivably unconstitutional to use
federal identification to secure voting, especially for federal offices, then it would
by direct extension be unconstitutional to use federal documents for travel.

Interesting how you flip flop against before you're for. No one's asking for anything that isn't fair. Most of your arguments simply declare ideas unfair without ever showing it.

[ptif219]

I actually agree, why can't we just pass a national system of fairly implemented
and regulated voter registration and credentials? It's not like it would constitute
federal overreach. If it would in any way be conceivably unconstitutional to use
federal identification to secure voting, especially for federal offices, then it would
by direct extension be unconstitutional to use federal documents for travel.


You need ID to function in this country. To show ID is not going to hurt anyone and will help prevent voter fraud

[ptif219]

I am a Liberal Democrat at the moment, and my opposition to new voting laws, is related to my own experience of being required to show SIX forms of ID to renew my expired DL in Florida in 2012. I was particularly insulted, because I was a combat veteran in the US army and they would NOT accept my DD214 form proving my honorable discharge as a valid form of ID.

My opposition is also related to elderly, physicallly impaired, and other persons who may not have a car,thus have no DL, who could just as well be Republicans as they are Democrats or other party. I think its an uncessary added burden for them, and I do not see enough of a fraud problem to warrant changing a system that has been working well enough for the last several decades of elections.


That is a one time thing and has to do with homeland security. If people can do iot to drive to have ID to vote should be easy

[Chris]

You need ID to function in this country. To show ID is not going to hurt anyone and will help prevent voter fraud



No kidding, I just don't understand the resistance to voter ID. In TX I can't vote without one and must show proof of identity and residence to get one and show picture ID each time I vote.

[Peter1469]

I have to show my ID here in VA, and they ask what your address is while they have it.

[Mainecoons]

Equally important, it solves the problem of the constantly inaccurate voter rolls. You don't need them if your voter is showing photo ID with an address and is voting in the precinct where that address belongs.

And the elections really do need to be moved to a normally non-working day. Now I understand that most Democrats don't work anyway, so they'll probably view this as favoring Republicans.

:grin:

[GrassrootsConservative]

Still waiting for jillian to admit she now knows of Democrat voter fraud.

[Singularity]

You need ID to function in this country. To show ID is not going to hurt anyone and will help prevent voter fraud
It's not that simple, but either way, the way it is being done right now is a political bomb... so I don't really care anymore.

When Pat McCrory is either recalled (not immediately sure if that's possible) or readily defeated in the next election he's involved with because he kept trying to fuck with the polls in North Carolina -- shallow voter ID restrictions being one of the many ways in which he is doing so -- this will win out.

[Mainecoons]

Don't bet on that defeat. Democrats are going to have to run against the ObamaCare debacle. Now I see that the unions are turning on each other over it.

[Singularity]

Update on my previous post: North Carolina is one of 12 states that has no system in place to recall any state officials.

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-governor-of-nc-allow-recall-elections

[Mainecoons]

Has anyone taken this to court yet?

Frankly, I think this kind of excess damages the legitimate effort and need to improve ballot security.

[Adelaide]

I have no problem with voter ID laws so long as it's easily accessible and of low or no cost to obtain some form of government ID. We have laws here about ID for as long as I can remember/been alive. Our laws are actually really interesting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws#Canada) and I'd suggest checking them out.

So this "liberal" doesn't have a problem with, with certain conditions.