PA Man Pays Property Taxes in $7143 One Dollar Bills

[AmazonTania]

Love the concept, but I don't know how I would take it if somebody paid me in a large amount of 1 dollar bank notes. Good thing I don't live in a country like Canada or Australia where 1 dollar bank note denominations were replaced with coins. Then that tax collector would have really gone bonkers.



http://youtu.be/kPRGblJTPRE

[Mister D]

WTF does he own? That's a lot for PA.

[AmazonTania]

That's just the school portion alone.

[Mister D]

Damn. Mine are a little less than that but I live in a state where property taxes are very high.

[AmazonTania]

The median property tax from a county in PA can range anywhere from $2,500 to $4,300. Median Property Taxes in the area where I am currently staying is slightly higher ($4,700), but for the value of homes around here that is relatively tiny. But New York has some of the highest paid property taxes in the country.

[Mister D]

The median property tax from a county in PA can range anywhere from $2,500 to $4,300. Median Property Taxes in the area where I am currently staying is slightly higher ($4,700), but for the value of homes around here that is relatively tiny. But New York has some of the highest paid property taxes in the country.

A lot of people move to eastern PA from New Jersey presumably to save on the property taxes. I could afford significantly more property in PA. I guess that will change though as more people move in.

[Chris]

Imagine it were pennies in wheelbarrows.


I see he took his kid in to teach them an object lesson in theft. What he says about our not owning our property but renting it from the state is true unless you have allodial title.

[zelmo1234]

Do you know why they asked if she refused to accept the money? It would have been illegal for her to do so?

[jillian]

isn't that cute... he inconvenienced the people working at the window... he should be so proud.

[Chloe]

isn't that cute... he inconvenienced the people working at the window... he should be so proud.

I actually agree with what you are basically saying. It's not her fault that he had to pay that amount and so I don't think there is any reason to take it out on someone that's just there to help and do their job. I feel bad enough digging through my bag for change sometimes to pay for things let alone dump a whole bunch of coins on a table or the smallest possible denominations of cash just to be a pain or to prove a point.

[zelmo1234]

isn't that cute... he inconvenienced the people working at the window... he should be so proud.

I think that he proved that government workers can't count? :)

[jillian]

I actually agree with what you are basically saying. It's not her fault that he had to pay that amount and so I don't think there is any reason to take it out on someone just there to help and do their job. I feel bad enough digging through my bag for change sometimes to pay for things let alone dump a whole bunch of coins on a table or the smallest possible denominations of cash just to be a pain or to prove a point.

exactly... i hadn't even thought about how he made everyone behind him wait.

boy he sure showed.... someone.

i get like that about digging through my bag for change, too. i always feel badly.

[zelmo1234]

Would she have made any less per hour if she had just counted the money? It would have taken her longer to do to the bank and back?

[Chris]

I actually agree with what you are basically saying. It's not her fault that he had to pay that amount and so I don't think there is any reason to take it out on someone that's just there to help and do their job. I feel bad enough digging through my bag for change sometimes to pay for things let alone dump a whole bunch of coins on a table or the smallest possible denominations of cash just to be a pain or to prove a point.



He was doing it for the news cameras to get his point out.

[Chris]

I think that he proved that government workers can't count? :)

They shouldn't count, if you get my drift.

[Mister D]

He was doing it for the news cameras to get his point out.

Kind of like the OWS rallies that inconvenienced quite a few people who work for a living.

[Mister D]

If we agree with the cause the guy did well. If we don't he's a asshole.

[Dr. Who]

If we agree with the cause the guy did well. If we don't he's a asshole.
The fair thing to do is to be able to direct your education taxes, so if you send your kids to public school, that's where they go. If you send your children to private school, that school tax counts as part of the tuition or all, as the case may be. If you home school, they should be refunded. That is not to say that I support home schooling across the board. Home schooled children should have to pass a state educational board test to ensure that they are learning what they should for their age group. If they learn more, that is a bonus.

[AmazonTania]

Kind of like the OWS rallies that inconvenienced quite a few people who work for a living.

OWS congested public areas vandalised private property. This guy asked a tax collector to do her job. Not an inconvenience and hardly the same thing.

[Mister D]

OWS congested public areas vandalised private property. This guy asked a tax collector to do her job. Not an inconvenience and hardly the same thing.

no argument here. That only serves to buttress my point. People tend to admire a protest when they perceive the cause favorably.

[Chris]

The fair thing to do is to be able to direct your education taxes, so if you send your kids to public school, that's where they go. If you send your children to private school, that school tax counts as part of the tuition or all, as the case may be. If you home school, they should be refunded. That is not to say that I support home schooling across the board. Home schooled children should have to pass a state educational board test to ensure that they are learning what they should for their age group. If they learn more, that is a bonus.



Good idea, except the testing, only leads to teaching to the test.

[Chris]

I agree with the guy, but I also like OWS, at least the idea of people involved, not the Pig Pen part, and they did come around to see government as the problem.

[Chloe]

OWS congested public areas vandalised private property. This guy asked a tax collector to do her job. Not an inconvenience and hardly the same thing.

OWS had/has a legitimate message in my opinion in spite of the small percentage that caused them to be judged in the way that they do. I know that this guy probably thought that he was making a great point and sending a message but all he really did was waste people's time in my opinion.

[zelmo1234]

OWS had/has a legitimate message in my opinion in spite of the small percentage that caused them to be judged in the way that they do. I know that this guy probably thought that he was making a great point and sending a message but all he really did was waste people's time in my opinion.

So a bunch of people trashing public property, and disrupting the system is Good? and a guy paying his taxes is bad? Only in the mind of a liberal?

[Chloe]

So a bunch of people trashing public property, and disrupting the system is Good? and a guy paying his taxes is bad? Only in the mind of a liberal?

No that's not what I said

[Dr. Who]

Good idea, except the testing, only leads to teaching to the test.

Well, given that the teacher is a parent and they are home schooling because they don't agree with the educational system, one would assume that they would try to teach more, rather than less. Non-testing would allow a parent of a religious persuasion to disregard core material in favor of Bible studies, or a parent who is inherently unqualified to even teach elementary school to improperly teach basic subject matter. Also I don't generally agree with home schooling for high school material unless the parent in question has taken the requisite courses in teaching said material and is a participant in continuing education classes. Kids getting out of high school must have been taught the material to pass college entry exams.

[AmazonTania]

OWS had/has a legitimate message in my opinion in spite of the small percentage that caused them to be judged in the way that they do.

Legitimate or not, that doesn't excuse their actions.


I know that this guy probably thought that he was making a great point and sending a message but all he really did was waste people's time in my opinion.

How exactly do you think taxes were collected before this time period? There were no 1040ezs,' no credit or debit cards, no bank wires, or anything of that sort. Mostly everyone paid cash, and large bills weren't in great circulation like they are today. The government has no qualms utilising its resources coming after those who try to evade taxes, but can't be bothered to make sure everything is paid in full when you decide to pay cash. The government apparently has a selective view of how it's time should be utilised. You can't have it both ways.

[Dr. Who]

Legitimate or not, that doesn't excuse their actions.



How exactly do you think taxes were collected before this time period? There were no 1040ezs,' no credit or debit cards, no bank wires, or anything of that sort. Mostly everyone paid cash, and large bills weren't in great circulation like they are today. The government has no qualms utilising its resources coming after those who try to evade taxes, but can't be bothered to make sure everything is paid in full when you decide to pay cash. You can't have it both ways.

I can see Chloe's point of view from a generally practical perspective, and this guy was being deliberately OTT to make a point, but there are still people in this world who don't trust credit cards or checks. Surely municipalities can afford bill and coin counters at their tax collecting offices, so long as these are still legal tender.

[Chris]

Well, given that the teacher is a parent and they are home schooling because they don't agree with the educational system, one would assume that they would try to teach more, rather than less. Non-testing would allow a parent of a religious persuasion to disregard core material in favor of Bible studies, or a parent who is inherently unqualified to even teach elementary school to improperly teach basic subject matter. Also I don't generally agree with home schooling for high school material unless the parent in question has taken the requisite courses in teaching said material and is a participant in continuing education classes. Kids getting out of high school must have been taught the material to pass college entry exams.

They may want to teach not what to think but how to think. That's difficult to test.

Sounds to me you're OK with parents teaching their children only if they comply to public school standards. Sort of defeats the whole purpose.

[Chris]

I can see Chloe's point of view from a generally practical perspective, and this guy was being deliberately OTT to make a point, but there are still people in this world who don't trust credit cards or checks. Surely municipalities can afford bill and coin counters at their tax collecting offices, so long as these are still legal tender.

She could have counted it manually. Or they could have just said, OK, good enough, close enough for horseshoes.

[Dr. Who]

They may want to teach not what to think but how to think. That's difficult to test.

Sounds to me you're OK with parents teaching their children only if they comply to public school standards. Sort of defeats the whole purpose.
I only care about core material. Reading, writing and arithmetic, basic geography and history. So long as they are adequately prepared for high school, or post secondary, as the case may be. Any less would be negligent. Parents are free to teach far beyond the scope of the standard. I just don't want to see children taught less and left unprepared.

[Chris]

I only care about core material. Reading, writing and arithmetic, basic geography and history. So long as they are adequately prepared for high school, or post secondary, as the case may be. Any less would be negligent. Parents are free to teach far beyond the scope of the standard. I just don't want to see children taught less and left unprepared.


Negligent in your opinion, which you would force on others.

[AmazonTania]

I can see Chloe's point of view from a generally practical perspective, and this guy was being deliberately OTT to make a point, but there are still people in this world who don't trust credit cards or checks. Surely municipalities can afford bill and coin counters at their tax collecting offices, so long as these are still legal tender.

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what he did to make a point. Unless his request was completely unreasonable, his request should be granted. The Municipality building is not going to reject the legal tender, so they should be able to count it regardless of it's denomination.

[Dr. Who]

Negligent in your opinion, which you would force on others.

I think it would be negligent for a parent who can neither spell nor do basic math act as a teacher to their children, or for someone who doesn't know which on continent one might find South America to teach geography. Children are not property. There are standards for education. You can't simply keep your kids at home and teach them your own personal view of the three Rs, which may be based on an inability to do any of the three. If you prefer, perhaps there should be a test administered to the parent to prove that they are qualified to teach math, reading, writing, geography and history. Then perhaps you wouldn't have to test the children.

[Ravi]

I actually agree with what you are basically saying. It's not her fault that he had to pay that amount and so I don't think there is any reason to take it out on someone that's just there to help and do their job. I feel bad enough digging through my bag for change sometimes to pay for things let alone dump a whole bunch of coins on a table or the smallest possible denominations of cash just to be a pain or to prove a point.
He also inconvenienced the people in line behind him out of spite.

[jillian]

OWS had/has a legitimate message in my opinion in spite of the small percentage that caused them to be judged in the way that they do. I know that this guy probably thought that he was making a great point and sending a message but all he really did was waste people's time in my opinion.

I agree with you. And our country has a long history of public protest.

This guy at the window was just obnoxious. Pity he taught his son to be obnoxious, too.

[GrassrootsConservative]

I agree with you. And our country has a long history of public protest.

This guy at the window was just obnoxious. Pity he taught his son to be obnoxious, too.

Who taught you?


He also inconvenienced the people in line behind him out of spite.

It's a government-run system. They're going to be in line for hours anyway.

[Ravi]

I agree with you. And our country has a long history of public protest.

This guy at the window was just obnoxious. Pity he taught his son to be obnoxious, too.
Not just obnoxious but also entitled. Hey son, lets fuck with these people because I made the mistake of buying a house without checking how much my property taxes were going to be. Now we can whine about it and get people to pity us with a viral youtube video. Don't forget to thank the poor gubmint employee for just charging us tax on the assessed value and not the fair market value. Have a donut.

[jillian]

Not just obnoxious but also entitled. Hey son, lets fuck with these people because I made the mistake of buying a house without checking how much my property taxes were going to be. Now we can whine about it and get people to pity us with a viral youtube video. Don't forget to thank the poor gubmint employee for just charging us tax on the assessed value and not the fair market value. Have a donut.


^^^^^

that

[zelmo1234]

I can see Chloe's point of view from a generally practical perspective, and this guy was being deliberately OTT to make a point, but there are still people in this world who don't trust credit cards or checks. Surely municipalities can afford bill and coin counters at their tax collecting offices, so long as these are still legal tender.

There were at least 2 [people in the office? they could have counted the money, taking other payments in between and made this man wait.

They don't need bill and coin counters, this happens once in a blue moon. They need people that are not to lazy to do their job?

[zelmo1234]

Not just obnoxious but also entitled. Hey son, lets fuck with these people because I made the mistake of buying a house without checking how much my property taxes were going to be. Now we can whine about it and get people to pity us with a viral youtube video. Don't forget to thank the poor gubmint employee for just charging us tax on the assessed value and not the fair market value. Have a donut.

So would it not have burst his bubble if they had just thanked him and started counting the money?

Which is what the tax payers pay them to do by the way?

[zelmo1234]

He also inconvenienced the people in line behind him out of spite.

I did not see any people behind him? except his family and the reporters? But if there were, the tax collectors could have stopped counting his money and taken care of them, made him wait for the entire day if necessary?

They were the ones that made an issue out of something that could have been handled with a thank you! and they would have not had a video to post, but they did not want to do their job? So they made it an issue.

I am sure that he was hoping that they would have refused payment, in which they would have refused US currency to settle a debt, which is a NO -NO,, I am sure that is why she was gone for so long the first time

[Peter1469]

The fair thing to do is to be able to direct your education taxes, so if you send your kids to public school, that's where they go. If you send your children to private school, that school tax counts as part of the tuition or all, as the case may be. If you home school, they should be refunded. That is not to say that I support home schooling across the board. Home schooled children should have to pass a state educational board test to ensure that they are learning what they should for their age group. If they learn more, that is a bonus.

That opens up a can of worms: should not families with many children pay more than those with one or zero children?

[jillian]

That opens up a can of worms: should not families with many children pay more than those with one or zero children?

i guess it would be ok... if those of us with children could refuse to pay for wars of choice.

[Peter1469]

i guess it would be ok... if those of us with children could refuse to pay for wars of choice.

I am referring to local taxes collected for a specific purpose. Not federal taxes that go to the general treasury.

[jillian]

I am referring to local taxes collected for a specific purpose. Not federal taxes that go to the general treasury.

i know that... but you live in a community, you can't burden just parents. schools wouldn't be paid for. just how it is. and they benefit from schools in their area, because the better the schools, the higher the value of their property.

sometimes you look at the good of the community.

[Chris]

i know that... but you live in a community, you can't burden just parents. schools wouldn't be paid for. just how it is. and they benefit from schools in their area, because the better the schools, the higher the value of their property.

sometimes you look at the good of the community.



sometimes you look at the good of the community

And who decides the good of the community, jillian?

[Chris]

He also inconvenienced the people in line behind him out of spite.



At least watch the video before you criticize, marie. There's a segment in there where some others come in to pay there taxes and he let's them go before him.

[Chris]

Not just obnoxious but also entitled. Hey son, lets fuck with these people because I made the mistake of buying a house without checking how much my property taxes were going to be. Now we can whine about it and get people to pity us with a viral youtube video. Don't forget to thank the poor gubmint employee for just charging us tax on the assessed value and not the fair market value. Have a donut.



That should get the make it up award for the day. Look up the psychologist's fallacy.

[nic34]

i know that... but you live in a community, you can't burden just parents. schools wouldn't be paid for. just how it is. and they benefit from schools in their area, because the better the schools, the higher the value of their property.

sometimes you look at the good of the community.

Oh god, we can't have any of that "community" stuff. People might just work together for the common good..... like for parks, paved streets, bridges that don't collapse.... schools where classes are not over full, functional police and fire departments... you know all that commie junk. :wink:

[Chris]

Oh god, we can't have any of that "community" stuff. People might just work together for the common good..... like for parks, paved streets, bridges that don't collapse.... schools where classes are not over full, functional police and fire departments... you know all that commie junk. :wink:


People might just work together for the common good

Tends to happen when government gets out of the way.

[Peter1469]

i know that... but you live in a community, you can't burden just parents. schools wouldn't be paid for. just how it is. and they benefit from schools in their area, because the better the schools, the higher the value of their property.

sometimes you look at the good of the community.

Agreed. That is the way it works. I was responding to another suggestion to let parents who home school or private school their kids send those tax dollars to support that, rather than the public school system. My point was then what next- make parents who have more kids pay less than people with 1 or 0 kids?

[jillian]

Agreed. That is the way it works. I was responding to another suggestion to let parents who home school or private school their kids send those tax dollars to support that, rather than the public school system. My point was then what next- make parents who have more kids pay less than people with 1 or 0 kids?

ah... gotcha. i didn't see that exchange. and why would we support homeschooling and/or private/parochial education. the point is that it's PUBLIC education. (yes, i know you know this).

i don't get the whole homeschooling thing anyway. to me the only reason to do that is if you are afraid your kids are going to learn things you don't approve of.

[nic34]

ah... gotcha. i didn't see that exchange. and why would we support homeschooling and/or private/parochial education. the point is that it's PUBLIC education. (yes, i know you know this).

i don't get the whole homeschooling thing anyway. to me the only reason to do that is if you are afraid your kids are going to learn things you don't approve of.

Not to mention they have no answer when you ask how they would better educate 50 million or so school age kids..... only anecdotes about individuals...

[AmazonTania]

Oh god, we can't have any of that "community" stuff. People might just work together for the common good..... like for parks, paved streets, bridges that don't collapse.... schools where classes are not over full, functional police and fire departments... you know all that commie junk. :wink:

The proceeds from property taxes do not pay for your roads and bridges. They're paid for with the tax you pay on gasoline.

[AmazonTania]

ah... gotcha. i didn't see that exchange. and why would we support homeschooling and/or private/parochial education. the point is that it's PUBLIC education. (yes, i know you know this).

i don't get the whole homeschooling thing anyway. to me the only reason to do that is if you are afraid your kids are going to learn things you don't approve of.

Possibly. But if I read that American students ranked 30th in math, 21st in Science and 15th in reading, I wouldn't want my child in the same classroom with the rest of you yanks either.

[Chris]

Not to mention they have no answer when you ask how they would better educate 50 million or so school age kids..... only anecdotes about individuals...



And your answer is what, nic, come one, let us know.

[zelmo1234]

i guess it would be ok... if those of us with children could refuse to pay for wars of choice.

Like the up coming Syria for example?

[Chris]

Possibly. But if I read that American students ranked 30th in math, 21st in Science and 15th in reading, I wouldn't want my child in the same classroom with the rest of you yanks either.



Some of that is, let us say, cultural. While blacks and Hispanics have been improving, setting them aside, whites are at the top is PISA scores Internationally. See Michael Lind on Libertarianism (http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/07/michael_lind_on.html), notes from the 21:12 mark.

Makes one wonder who the the great progressive education system is for.

[BB-35]

isn't that cute... he inconvenienced the people working at the window... he should be so proud.

Yeah.looked like they were really put out..<snicker>

[Dr. Who]

That opens up a can of worms: should not families with many children pay more than those with one or zero children?

I though about that, but since it is good citizenship to support education, there should be an option to direct your taxes even if you have no children - obviously home schooling would not be an option if you don't have children, but you could direct them to public schools, private or religious schools or charter schools.

[AmazonTania]

I though about that, but since it is good citizenship to support education, there should be an option to direct your taxes even if you have no children - obviously home schooling would not be an option if you don't have children, but you could direct them to public schools, private or religious schools or charter schools.

Why should anyone support sub-standard education? This would never be tolerated if education was paid individually.

[Dr. Who]

Why should anyone support sub-standard education? This would never be tolerated if education was paid individually.

I'm not suggesting supporting sub-standard education, however if education were only supported individually, the children of those who haven't the means to pay would be unable to obtain an education and I don't think that is in the best interests of society at large.

[AmazonTania]

I'm not suggesting supporting sub-standard education, however if education were only supported individually, the children of those who haven't the means to pay would be unable to obtain an education and I don't think that is in the best interests of society at large.

That's already happening now.

[Dr. Who]

That's already happening now.

Not entirely. People don't have the right to direct their educational taxes.

[AmazonTania]

Not entirely. People don't have the right to direct their educational taxes.

People don't have the right to choose which public school they can attend, either. The ones the means can afford to pay $300,000 for a new house and move out of town. The rest are stuck living in the same neighborhood attending the same useless educational system.

It's a distinction without a difference.

[zelmo1234]

I'm not suggesting supporting sub-standard education, however if education were only supported individually, the children of those who haven't the means to pay would be unable to obtain an education and I don't think that is in the best interests of society at large.

If the money followed the child instead of the school system you could, We spend more per child on public education than most private schools

[Dr. Who]

If the money followed the child instead of the school system you could, We spend more per child on public education than most private schools
I recognize the problems with the educational system. Hence I support the right to self directed taxes. Of course there are some who do not pay taxes, which is an issue which must also come into play. I also believe people should be able to send their children to whichever institution that they wish - assuming the institution can accommodate the number of children. There are logistics which must be considered. Sending your child to an educational institution 30 miles away requires transportation, the cost of which would have to be supported by the parent.

On the subject of education, I recently read an item out of Canada - they are now considering paying teachers according to performance. Those who achieve greater academic results with their students may get paid more than those who simply maintain the status quo.