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Cigar
09-18-2013, 08:07 AM
Ever since the massacres in Aurora, Colorado, and Newtown, Connecticut, it's been repeated like some surreal requiem: The reason mass gun violence keeps happening is because the United States is full of places that ban guns.


Second Amendment activists have long floated this theme, and now lawmakers across (http://www.rollcall.com/news/stockman_seeks_repeal_of_gun_free_school_zones_law-220658-1.html?zkPrintable=true) the (http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/2012/12/23/news/19local_12-23-12.prt) nation (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStoryPrinter=80360) are using it too. During a recent floor debate in the Colorado Legislature, Republican state Rep. Carole Murray put it this way (http://www.cpr.org/article/TruthSquadding_The_Gun_Debate): "Most of the mass killings that we talk about have been effected in gun-free zones. So when you have a gun-free zone, it's like saying, 'Come and get me.'"


The argument claims to explain both the motive behind mass shootings and how they play out. The killers deliberately choose sites where firearms are forbidden, gun-rights advocates say, and because there are no weapons, no "good guy with a gun (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/nra-mass-shootings-myth)" will be on hand to stop the crime.


With its overtones of fear and heroism, the argument makes for slick sound bites. But here's the problem: Both its underlying assumptions are contradicted by data. Not only is there zero evidence to support them, our in-depth investigation of America's mass shootings (http://www.motherjones.com/special-reports/2012/12/guns-in-america-mass-shootings) indicates they are just plain wrong.


Among the 62 mass shootings over the last 30 years that we studied, not a single case (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data) includes evidence that the killer chose to target a place because it banned guns. To the contrary, in many of the cases there was clearly another motive for the choice of location. For example, 20 were workplace shootings, most of which involved perpetrators who felt wronged by employers and colleagues. Last September, when a troubled man working at a sign manufacturer in Minneapolis was told he would be let go, he pulled out a 9mm Glock and killed six people and injured another before putting a bullet in his own head. Similar tragedies unfolded at a beer distributor in Connecticut in 2010 and at a plastics factory in Kentucky in 2008.

Thirty-six of the killers committed suicide at or near the crime scene. These were not people whose priority was identifying the safest place to attack.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/gun-free-zones-mass-shootings

Please prepare yourself for the on-slot of denials ... :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Mainecoons
09-18-2013, 08:19 AM
You guys can start gun threads until they run out your ears (OK it beats more Zimmerman threads) but that won't change the facts of the matter here at all:

1. Your vaunted background checks didn't work. This guy bought his shotgun from a gun shop, passed the checks and was sold the weapon.
2. Your cherished big Federal government didn't protect its facility or workers. The security was so slipshod that this guy could walk in, easily strip weapons from one of your "guards" and use those weapons to kill a bunch of people.

You can pass some more gun laws and nothing will change here. Nothing.

jillian
09-18-2013, 08:19 AM
mass killings are largely committed with legal weapons.

and most gun violence occurs in places where guns are easily obtained... surprise, surprise, surprise...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/states-gun-violence_n_3091993.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/states-gun-violence_n_3091993.html)

Mainecoons
09-18-2013, 08:22 AM
You mean places like New York City and Chicago?

:grin:

Cigar
09-18-2013, 08:22 AM
http://contagiouscommentary.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/lalalala-listening.jpg


Indeed, America is anything but gun free. We now have more than 300 million firearms in private hands. In the last four years, nearly 100 state laws (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/map-gun-laws-2009-2012) have loosened restrictions on them. To varying degrees, every state except Illinois now allows guns to be carried in public.


All of which raises an obvious question: If more guns in more places is a solution to the bloodshed, then why did we just witness the worst year for mass shootings (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation) in recent history?

patrickt
09-18-2013, 08:25 AM
Ah, Cigar is resorting to the liberal defense. Be careful, next is falling to the ground, wetting his pants, and whining some more.

Liberals know that all problems can be solved by passing laws. That's why as the discrimination laws proliferate and the hate crimes laws proliferate the problem of racism recedes into history. That's why with cities like Chicago and Denver and New York as the gun laws increase the problems go away.

And, the Department of Justice runs guns to the drug cartels. Amazing, isn't it?

Cigar
09-18-2013, 08:30 AM
Notice their careful and artful diversion from The NRA Myth of Gun-Free Zones :laugh:

patrickt
09-18-2013, 08:33 AM
Schools are mostly gun-free zones. Federal facilities are mostly gun-free zones. That's why there have never been any mass shootings in those locations, right, Cigar.

Cigar
09-18-2013, 08:41 AM
Schools are mostly gun-free zones. Federal facilities are mostly gun-free zones. That's why there have never been any mass shootings in those locations, right, Cigar.

Brian Gene Nichols :laugh:

Mister D
09-18-2013, 08:44 AM
mass killings are largely committed with legal weapons.

and most gun violence occurs in places where guns are easily obtained... surprise, surprise, surprise...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/states-gun-violence_n_3091993.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/states-gun-violence_n_3091993.html)

The top three for firearm homicides are also the blackest states in the country. Surprise, surprise, surprise...:afro:

zelmo1234
09-18-2013, 08:44 AM
You mean places like New York City and Chicago?

:grin:

No she is right, The WVA shooting was don legally , The Gifford shooting, the Navy Yard, was a little of both, I think that the CO shooting was legal.

But there is one thread, these people has shown signs of mental illness, and it todays world they can't be reported because that takes away their civil rights.

We no longer support state hospitals for the mentally challenged that too is against there civil rights

There are problems that need to be addressed but you have to have partners that you can trust and this administration is not one of them.

zelmo1234
09-18-2013, 08:47 AM
Nice move Cigar, Starting a new thread so you don't have to answer for linking to things that support the pro gun community.

When I get home tonight I will post all of the links here too!

Cigar
09-18-2013, 08:54 AM
The top three for firearm homicides are also the blackest states in the country. Surprise, surprise, surprise...:afro:



Wow :thumbsup: Blacks now have entire States ... looks like the extinction is going to happen sooner than we thought.

Looking forward to a State near you. :wink:

jillian
09-18-2013, 08:58 AM
No she is right, The WVA shooting was don legally , The Gifford shooting, the Navy Yard, was a little of both, I think that the CO shooting was legal.

But there is one thread, these people has shown signs of mental illness, and it todays world they can't be reported because that takes away their civil rights.

We no longer support state hospitals for the mentally challenged that too is against there civil rights

There are problems that need to be addressed but you have to have partners that you can trust and this administration is not one of them.

so how do you weed out people who are criminal and/or mentally ill without background checks and recording requirements.

you mean this isn't a rightwing admin...after heller you really should stop the rhetoric. anything that was done that you felt overstepped (not that this administration has given any indication of intending to overstep...but why quibble?) could be challenged in the courts.

your reasons for not addressing a very real problem are disingenuous. and, frankly, it doesn't look like you're going to have an administration you like any better next time around.

you want more people to die this way? i don't think so. which means you and the NRA cheerleaders need to grow up.

Mister D
09-18-2013, 08:59 AM
Wow :thumbsup: Blacks now have entire States ... looks like the extinction is going to happen sooner than we thought.

Looking forward to a State near you. :wink:

Nope. Too bad though. Then we could just kick it out of the union. :laugh: Again, the top three states for gun related homicides are also the three blackest states in the country. No surprise there. :afro:

BB-35
09-18-2013, 01:53 PM
Ever since the massacres in Aurora, Colorado, and Newtown, Connecticut, it's been repeated like some surreal requiem: The reason mass gun violence keeps happening is because the United States is full of places that ban guns.


Second Amendment activists have long floated this theme, and now lawmakers across (http://www.rollcall.com/news/stockman_seeks_repeal_of_gun_free_school_zones_law-220658-1.html?zkPrintable=true) the (http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/2012/12/23/news/19local_12-23-12.prt) nation (http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStoryPrinter=80360) are using it too. During a recent floor debate in the Colorado Legislature, Republican state Rep. Carole Murray put it this way (http://www.cpr.org/article/TruthSquadding_The_Gun_Debate): "Most of the mass killings that we talk about have been effected in gun-free zones. So when you have a gun-free zone, it's like saying, 'Come and get me.'"


The argument claims to explain both the motive behind mass shootings and how they play out. The killers deliberately choose sites where firearms are forbidden, gun-rights advocates say, and because there are no weapons, no "good guy with a gun (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/nra-mass-shootings-myth)" will be on hand to stop the crime.


With its overtones of fear and heroism, the argument makes for slick sound bites. But here's the problem: Both its underlying assumptions are contradicted by data. Not only is there zero evidence to support them, our in-depth investigation of America's mass shootings (http://www.motherjones.com/special-reports/2012/12/guns-in-america-mass-shootings) indicates they are just plain wrong.


Among the 62 mass shootings over the last 30 years that we studied, not a single case (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data) includes evidence that the killer chose to target a place because it banned guns. To the contrary, in many of the cases there was clearly another motive for the choice of location. For example, 20 were workplace shootings, most of which involved perpetrators who felt wronged by employers and colleagues. Last September, when a troubled man working at a sign manufacturer in Minneapolis was told he would be let go, he pulled out a 9mm Glock and killed six people and injured another before putting a bullet in his own head. Similar tragedies unfolded at a beer distributor in Connecticut in 2010 and at a plastics factory in Kentucky in 2008.

Thirty-six of the killers committed suicide at or near the crime scene. These were not people whose priority was identifying the safest place to attack.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/gun-free-zones-mass-shootings

Please prepare yourself for the on-slot of denials ... :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Mother jones is full of shit,why aren't there more mass shootings on police stations? at gun shows? and the killers committed suicide when confronted with armed authorities.

ceegar got sucked in.

BB-35
09-18-2013, 01:55 PM
You mean places like New York City and Chicago?

:grin:
and Washington DC?

Mister D
09-18-2013, 01:56 PM
and Washington DC?

Or pretty much any major US city outside the Pacific Northwest

BB-35
09-18-2013, 01:59 PM
so how do you weed out people who are criminal and/or mentally ill without background checks and recording requirements.

you mean this isn't a rightwing admin...after heller you really should stop the rhetoric. anything that was done that you felt overstepped (not that this administration has given any indication of intending to overstep...but why quibble?) could be challenged in the courts.

your reasons for not addressing a very real problem are disingenuous. and, frankly, it doesn't look like you're going to have an administration you like any better next time around.

you want more people to die this way? i don't think so. which means you and the NRA cheerleaders need to grow up.

Here's a thought.....why not 'weed them out' BEFORE they try to get a weapon?

I mean if you see a person talking to their corn flakes,wouldn't that be a clue?

zelmo1234
09-18-2013, 02:35 PM
so how do you weed out people who are criminal and/or mentally ill without background checks and recording requirements.

you mean this isn't a rightwing admin...after heller you really should stop the rhetoric. anything that was done that you felt overstepped (not that this administration has given any indication of intending to overstep...but why quibble?) could be challenged in the courts.

your reasons for not addressing a very real problem are disingenuous. and, frankly, it doesn't look like you're going to have an administration you like any better next time around.

you want more people to die this way? i don't think so. which means you and the NRA cheerleaders need to grow up.

Actually I have stated many times that I as well as the NRA are for closing the Gun show loop hole in those states where it exists, and for a clean background check law!

We have not received this from the Democratic party!

As for policies that promote these killings? They happen in areas that have all of the laws that you are supporting, where they don't happen is in areas that citizens are allowed to protect themselves

So it is not I but You that are supporting the policies that make these possible.

You also need to change the civil rights laws so that counselors and law officers can report these potentially dangerous people so they actually show up on the background check system

AND THE BIG ONE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT IS WILLING TO PROSICUTE PEOPLE THAT VOILATE CURRENT GUN LAWS INSTEAD OF LEAVING THEM ON THE STREET!

AmazonTania
09-18-2013, 05:24 PM
Ever since the massacres in Aurora, Colorado, and Newtown, Connecticut, it's been repeated like some surreal requiem: The reason mass gun violence keeps happening is because the United States is full of places that ban guns.



All of those tragedies happened where the killer was armed and everyone else wasn't.

Sounds like a gun free zone to me.