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Professor Peabody
09-18-2013, 03:07 PM
As Budget Fight Looms, Obama Sees Defiance in His Own Party

By PETER BAKER and JEREMY W. PETERS
Published: September 17, 2013

WASHINGTON — For four years, President Obama counted on fellow Democrats to rally to his side in a series of epic battles with Republicans over the direction of the country. But now, deep in his fifth year in office, Mr. Obama finds himself frustrated by members of his own party weary of his leadership and increasingly willing to defy him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/us/politics/as-budget-fight-looms-obama-sees-defiance-in-his-own-party.html?hp&_r=0

The Democrats are imploding. They now know any train wreck of Obama Care come Early 2014 will have as serious of ramifications as it did in 2010 when they passed it, losing 69 seats in Congress at the mid-term. Montana Sen. Max Baucus will not seek reelection in 2014. He said Obama Care would be a train wreck and he was one of the authors.

If Democrats continue to blindly follow Obama, your careers are headed over the cliff. Ya'all misread the public on health care, the majority still don't want Obama Care, they wanted you to start over. If it crashes and burns, the Democrats as a party will be mortally wounded. Are you ready to just go home and never return to political life? Myself, I hope so.

nic34
09-18-2013, 03:51 PM
Ya'all misread the public on health care, the majority still don't want Obama Care, they wanted you to start over. If it crashes and burns, the Democrats as a party will be mortally wounded. Are you ready to just go home and never return to political life? Myself, I hope so.

Republicans have a better way then?

ptif219
09-18-2013, 04:11 PM
The Democrats are imploding. They now know any train wreck of Obama Care come Early 2014 will have as serious of ramifications as it did in 2010 when they passed it, losing 69 seats in Congress at the mid-term. Montana Sen. Max Baucus will not seek reelection in 2014. He said Obama Care would be a train wreck and he was one of the authors.

If Democrats continue to blindly follow Obama, your careers are headed over the cliff. Ya'all misread the public on health care, the majority still don't want Obama Care, they wanted you to start over. If it crashes and burns, the Democrats as a party will be mortally wounded. Are you ready to just go home and never return to political life? Myself, I hope so.

Even democrats are picking apart Obamacare

http://washingtonexaminer.com/seniors-push-bill-to-repeal-obamacare-provision-that-raises-their-costs/article/2536019

ptif219
09-18-2013, 04:12 PM
Republicans have a better way then?

They may have

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/322955-conservatives-unveil-obamacare-replacement

nic34
09-18-2013, 04:25 PM
They may have

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/322955-conservatives-unveil-obamacare-replacement

That's it? Any tax cuts? Any deductions against income or payroll taxes?

So there's all the old tort reform, buying insurance across state lines, high-risk pools—all the things that don't actually do anything to address the real problem in our health care system..... increasing, systemic costs.

And I don't see any provision for lower-income people to purchase affordable insurance. Or anything like young people being able to stay on their parents' plan or an end to lifetime limits......

So it's tax cuts as usual. At least this time they're for the middle class....I hope.

ptif219
09-18-2013, 04:53 PM
That's it? Any tax cuts? Any deductions against income or payroll taxes?

So there's all the old tort reform, buying insurance across state lines, high-risk pools—all the things that don't actually do anything to address the real problem in our health care system..... increasing, systemic costs.

And I don't see any provision for lower-income people to purchase affordable insurance. Or anything like young people being able to stay on their parents' plan or an end to lifetime limits......

So it's tax cuts as usual. At least this time they're for the middle class....I hope.

It won't destroy the economy like Obamacare will

pjohns
09-18-2013, 04:58 PM
That's it? Any tax cuts?

If you seriously believe that this is an invidious caricature--that the GOP is the party of tax cuts--then I will gleefully accept that description...


So there's all the old tort reform, buying insurance across state lines, high-risk pools...

Perhaps you see these things as inconsequential; but I certainly do not...


And I don't see any provision for lower-income people to purchase affordable insurance. Or anything like young people being able to stay on their parents' plan or an end to lifetime limits......

(1) I do not regard healthcare insurance as some sort of fundamental right--and neither did the Founders--so any "provision for lower-income people" to acquire government-subsidized insurance is unimportant to me.

(2) The ability of twentysomethings--well, up to age 26, anyway--to stay on their parents' healthcare plan is important to some; so it would probably be wise, as a purely political matter, to include a similar provision in any repeal-and-replace effort.


So it's tax cuts as usual. At least this time they're for the middle class....I hope.

More unabashed class warfare: Tax cuts for "the middle class" (which President Obama and his acolytes define rather narrowly) might--might--be acceptable. But tax cuts for anyone else--including even the upper-middle class--must be opposed vigorously, so that The Benefactor State may be properly fed...

nic34
09-18-2013, 05:06 PM
(1) I do not regard healthcare insurance as some sort of fundamental right--and neither did the Founders--so any "provision for lower-income people" to acquire government-subsidized insurance is unimportant to me.



Life is not a right. So screw 'em.

lynn
09-18-2013, 05:17 PM
The only healthcare system that is going to work is we must eliminate the insurance companies altogether and have everyone pay into one entity that administers it. It needs to be completely transparent and free of any possible corruption with strict regulations that is fair to all citizens.

nic34
09-18-2013, 05:18 PM
You're on the right track lynn....

jillian
09-18-2013, 05:22 PM
The Democrats are imploding. They now know any train wreck of Obama Care come Early 2014 will have as serious of ramifications as it did in 2010 when they passed it, losing 69 seats in Congress at the mid-term. Montana Sen. Max Baucus will not seek reelection in 2014. He said Obama Care would be a train wreck and he was one of the authors.

If Democrats continue to blindly follow Obama, your careers are headed over the cliff. Ya'all misread the public on health care, the majority still don't want Obama Care, they wanted you to start over. If it crashes and burns, the Democrats as a party will be mortally wounded. Are you ready to just go home and never return to political life? Myself, I hope so.

no matter what, the wingers make the democrats look good...

that whole shutting down the government thing ought to do wonders for you guys.

AmazonTania
09-18-2013, 05:25 PM
no matter what, the wingers make the democrats look good...

that whole shutting down the government thing ought to do wonders for you guys.

Too bad Democrats can't seem to make the economy look good...

ptif219
09-18-2013, 05:32 PM
Life is not a right. So screw 'em.

You know Obama would never sign it when the democrats have set up obamacare to usher in government healthcare

ptif219
09-18-2013, 05:33 PM
The only healthcare system that is going to work is we must eliminate the insurance companies altogether and have everyone pay into one entity that administers it. It needs to be completely transparent and free of any possible corruption with strict regulations that is fair to all citizens.


What fairy tale do you live in? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC-hysterical.gifhttp://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_cheers.gif

ptif219
09-18-2013, 05:37 PM
no matter what, the wingers make the democrats look good...

that whole shutting down the government thing ought to do wonders for you guys.

If the GOP CR passes it will be the democrats and Obama shutting it down not the GOP. The GOP has a plan to fund all the government except Obamacare for one year so Obamacare would be delayed for another year

nic34
09-18-2013, 05:38 PM
If the GOP CR passes it will be the democrats and Obama shutting it down not the GOP. The GOP has a plan to fund all the government except Obamacare for one year so Obamacare would be delayed for another year

What good would that do?

ptif219
09-18-2013, 05:50 PM
What good would that do?

It gives obama time to secure the web site and to fine tune it so the exemptions are no longer needed. It also gives states more time to get setup and secure their databases.

The way it is now the sites could be hacked and your information stolen. In my opinion this application form and questions go against my right to privacy

pjohns
09-18-2013, 08:10 PM
Life is not a right. So screw 'em.

Is that supposed to be a serious comment? (If it is, your critical-thinking skills are...well, rather limited...)

pjohns
09-18-2013, 08:11 PM
The only healthcare system that is going to work is we must eliminate the insurance companies altogether and have everyone pay into one entity that administers it.

In other words, more dependency upon The Benefactor State...

pjohns
09-18-2013, 08:20 PM
What good would that do [to delay ObamaCare by one year]?

In theory, probably very little.

But one would hope that it would be only the first of several delays; and that the general public--which is already quite unenthusiastic about the plan--would turn even more steadfastly against it.

Perhaps the GOP can secure a majority in the US Senate in the upcoming midterms, in 2014; and also take back the White House in 2016. (Note: Within my lifetime--and I was born in 1948--only once has the same party held the presidency for three consecutive terms. That was between January 1981 and January 1993. So the pendulum is very likely to swing toward the Republicans in 2016, if history is any guide.)

This could pave the way for the outright repeal of this horrid law...

Singularity
09-18-2013, 08:45 PM
The GOP may well have great arguments about Obama's handling of the economy and of healthcare, but everything they have to say is going to be invalidated when they sabotage the government and the economy with this hare-brained Shutdown and Debt Ceiling maneuvering. I have mixed feelings about Obama's policies on both of these issues, but if I were a Republican faithful, I'd be fucking pissed about how my party is pushing headlong into a fight they're not equipped to win... that can only distract from the serious issues of the day, and risks allowing Dems to pin anything bad that does happen on Republicans.

AmazonTania
09-18-2013, 08:47 PM
Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin. But I really don't care which side screws up the country. I'll get paid either way.

zelmo1234
09-18-2013, 08:51 PM
The only healthcare system that is going to work is we must eliminate the insurance companies altogether and have everyone pay into one entity that administers it. It needs to be completely transparent and free of any possible corruption with strict regulations that is fair to all citizens.

That would be single payer, and it has a track record around the world, It increases cost and decreases quality and timely ness of care?

But it is more fair

zelmo1234
09-18-2013, 08:52 PM
no matter what, the wingers make the democrats look good...

that whole shutting down the government thing ought to do wonders for you guys.

It will actually be the Democrats that shut the government down, but who's counting.

I like another sequester idea. it worked well the first time

zelmo1234
09-18-2013, 08:55 PM
What good would that do?

It would give the administration time to actually get things straight, so they don't have to keep giving people and groups wavers?

It is not even close to being ready to go, and it is actually not constitutional to give these wavers out

ptif219
09-18-2013, 09:02 PM
The GOP may well have great arguments about Obama's handling of the economy and of healthcare, but everything they have to say is going to be invalidated when they sabotage the government and the economy with this hare-brained Shutdown and Debt Ceiling maneuvering. I have mixed feelings about Obama's policies on both of these issues, but if I were a Republican faithful, I'd be fucking pissed about how my party is pushing headlong into a fight they're not equipped to win... that can only distract from the serious issues of the day, and risks allowing Dems to pin anything bad that does happen on Republicans.

Problem is it is the do nothing democrats talking about it. Where is the democrats fix? The democrats think stopping the GOP plan will make the public blame the GOP there is a good chance this will backfire on the Democrats. By the way when the government shut down under Clinton the GOP gained house seats

ptif219
09-18-2013, 09:08 PM
It will actually be the Democrats that shut the government down, but who's counting.

I like another sequester idea. it worked well the first time

I like the Graves CR but I don't think Boehner will allow it

Peter1469
09-18-2013, 09:26 PM
That would be single payer, and it has a track record around the world, It increases cost and decreases quality and timely ness of care?

But it is more fair
Perhaps a hybrid- universal care supplemented with private insurance would be the most fair.

Professor Peabody
09-18-2013, 10:15 PM
The GOP may well have great arguments about Obama's handling of the economy and of healthcare, but everything they have to say is going to be invalidated when they sabotage the government and the economy with this hare-brained Shutdown and Debt Ceiling maneuvering. I have mixed feelings about Obama's policies on both of these issues, but if I were a Republican faithful, I'd be fucking pissed about how my party is pushing headlong into a fight they're not equipped to win... that can only distract from the serious issues of the day, and risks allowing Dems to pin anything bad that does happen on Republicans.

NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll conducted by the polling organizations of Peter Hart (D) and Bill McInturff (R). Sept. 5-8, 2013. N=1,000 adults nationwide. Margin of error 3.1.

"As you may know the federal debt ceiling acts as a check and limit on the country's overall liabilities, including the federal deficit and other debts. When the U.S. Treasury needs to issue debt above the ceiling in order to avoid going into bankruptcy and defaulting on its obligations, Congress needs to vote to raise the ceiling. Congress is again currently considering whether and how much to extend the debt ceiling. Do you think Congress should or should not raise the debt ceiling? If you don't know enough to have an opinion, please just say so."

9/5-8/13

Should.............Should not..........Don't know enough......Unsure
...22%..................44%....................... .....33%..............1%

Source (http://www.pollingreport.com/budget.htm)

The democrats should raise the debt ceiling at their own peril.

pjohns
09-19-2013, 10:37 AM
The GOP may well have great arguments about Obama's handling of the economy and of healthcare, but everything they have to say is going to be invalidated when they sabotage the government and the economy with this hare-brained Shutdown and Debt Ceiling maneuvering.

Let us be honest here.

The Republican strategy is to pass a continuing resolution that would fund the federal government in toto--that includes full funding for the military, for Social Security, for Medicare, and for everything else--except for ObamaCare.

If such a bill were to make it to the president's desk--and if he were then to veto it, in a fit of pique over the defunding of his signature legislation--it would then be President Obama who was shutting down the government.

Just to be clear...

Agravan
09-19-2013, 10:43 AM
Let us be honest here.

The Republican strategy is to pass a continuing resolution that would fund the federal government in toto--that includes full funding for the military, for Social Security, for Medicare, and for everything else--except for ObamaCare.

If such a bill were to make it to the president's desk--and if he were then to veto it, in a fit of pique over the defunding of his signature legislation--it would then be President Obama who was shutting down the government.

Just to be clear...

No, no, no pjohns. President Messiah will never be held responsible for his own idiocy.