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View Full Version : 51st STATE? The South California Plan.....



MMC
07-14-2011, 09:28 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/51st-state-small-step-forward-long-shot-south-233234624.html


A Republican member of the Riverside County Board of Supervisors wants his county and 12 others to secede from California and form the 51st state. His colleagues gave him an unenthusiastic go ahead Tuesday to explore the idea.

An effort to turn 13 southern California counties into the nation's 51st state took a small step forward Tuesday but remains an extremely long shot, say experts.
Since the days of the gold rush, more than 220 campaigns to split California into halves or thirds have been tossed around. Mr. Stone's vision involves persuading 13 counties to secede from the state, which he says raids local coffers to plug budget gaps.

Stone's idea has some merit, some analysts say. It addresses the problematic balance of power between Sacramento and California localities, as well as the political reality that the 13 counties in Stone's secession drive are far more conservative than the rest of the state. But the vision remains legally and politically unrealistic, many add, and is perhaps not the best solution to the problems it seeks address.

Stone's South California would not include Los Angeles. In addition to Riverside County, the counties targeted for secession would be Fresno, Imperial, Inyo, Kern, Kings, Madera, Mariposa, Mono, Orange, San Bernardino, San Diego, and Tulare, which include about 13 million people total.

Republicans account for the majority of registered voters in all but two of the 13 counties – San Bernardino and Imperial. For that reason, the idea has merit, says Robert Stern, president of the Center for Governmental Studies.

“Is California too big to govern? Should we change the way we govern ourselves? Should we have more legislators, who are hopefully, more responsive to their constituents' needs? Should we have at-large elections? Proportional representation? Should we get rid of term limits so people get to know their legislators better?” Jessica Levinson, director of political reform for the Center for Governmental Studies.

I don't think California is to big to govern. We definatley do not need more legislators in California. This Director is she daft? Where does she come up with the idea that getting rid of term limits would help? Should California be split to make another state? In doing so would not California then drop on the list as the 8th Largest Economy in the world? Thoughts?

Conley
07-14-2011, 09:31 AM
Yeah, I think this is a stupid idea. California is a big place, no doubt, and there are differences between say San Diego (conservative military) and San Francisco (nuff said ;D) but I think we can find middle ground without having to split the state in two. Heck you could do this sort of thing in a lot of states...I mean Northern Virgnia is very different from western (not West) Virginia...there's no reason to start carving our states up. Maybe CA is trying to get a couple more senate seats >:D

Mister D
07-14-2011, 10:42 AM
Honestly, I think the US is becoming to diverse to govern effectively from the center.

Proportional representation is intriguing. I used to think that our system kept the loons out but our system is also becoming increasingly resistant to change. or so it appears to me anyway...

spunkloaf
07-14-2011, 11:26 AM
Honestly, I think the US is becoming to diverse to govern effectively from the center.

Proportional representation is intriguing. I used to think that our system kept the loons out but our system is also becoming increasingly resistant to change. or so it appears to me anyway...


I think you're right. Things are growing and changing so rapidly that we need now-decisions. However we still need the refining and fairness of lengthy debate to make GOOD decisions. Here we are 4 years after the beginning of the recession and we still don't have a real, long-term plan in place for it. Plenty of people have plenty of good ideas for what we can do, but it's all being stalled by our processes. Centralized government should work for more broad and static purposes, and local governments should work for localized dynamic purposes.

MMC
07-14-2011, 11:33 AM
They had the same type of idea for Texas where they thought they could pull like an extra Six states out of it. No term limits for politicans is just plain stupidity. Here your in charge for life. methinks California just need some real live Gangsta's up in dat bitch. >:D Not wanna-bes and definately not Pelosi and the Progressives. Plus how many times are they gonna keep digging Jerry Brown up out of the ground.

I say we put CL on the Job and go talk to a whole bunch of Mexicans. They believe in life, they are Catholic. They believe in family and morality. Get rid of that dipshit Issa and get some real Repubs out there. We need to have the Fiscally Conservative out there with more right center social types out there. Screw giving the Dems any advantages. Need to start thinking ahead for 2016. Make a strong push to get some Right leaning Latinos, to run for office against the Dems. Congressman and Senators.

Whats that Sanchez broad out there that refused to give up her pay and avoided the question on it saying she would be alright. How many face lifts and all that plastic surgery does BOXER, PELOSI and Fienstein, duped the people out of and paying for. What 70 year old women running around in 4-inch Spiked heels. All the pain, all the trajedy, all the horror all the agony. >:D Has the country really lost it's damn mind. Okay If the bitch can live for 150 yrs then I might......might be willing to have some type of sympatico-understanding of such. But now.....since when did all these Old ass broads get the idea they gonna run around in jeans with fake asses and shit. thinking they keeping it fresh. Spare me their psychosis.

David Lee Roth - California Girls (Music Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmbhfI8f_Ek#)

Gentlemen I have discovered the root to the problems of Government! It smacks us in the face of reality everyday.

Not like Neo-Cons or Southern Cons.....and playing the Moral Police. Plus we need Repubs out there with money. Time to bring back Hollywood and the pariahs of society back down to reality.
Still how does one get around Major Metropolis' that has to have Different types of Medical and social and state programs?

MMC
07-14-2011, 01:16 PM
All kidding aside.....I had an article up about a month ago on a related topic. As to more localized government over that of the state. So in essence proportional government. Local farmers and buisness providing for communties and not spending for all that long distance trafficking. Providing for their infrastruture. Or Sharing with surrounding communties. Still when it comes to major urban cities such is obtianable but highly unlikely.....due to the unique set of circumstances for living life in such a way. Either way I think it would still put into question if something is State law or that of a County and or City/Town/Village.

Mister D
07-14-2011, 01:23 PM
I meant proportional representation at a national level along the lines of a European system. For example, if Ron Paul founded a party and it received 15-20% of the popular vote that party would be represented in Congress.

MMC
07-14-2011, 01:38 PM
Ah, I. C.....said the blind man. Yeah I was looking to bring government into an even smaller setting.

Mister D
07-14-2011, 01:47 PM
Ah, I. C.....said the blind man. Yeah I was looking to bring government into an even smaller setting.


That's an interesting idea as well. More power and leverage on the local level.

MMC
07-14-2011, 05:32 PM
Ah, I. C.....said the blind man. Yeah I was looking to bring government into an even smaller setting.


That's an interesting idea as well. More power and leverage on the local level.


Yeah remember when they had those guys that were redicting Doomsday scenarios. Whether thru infrastructure, resources, Nuclear or Advanced A.I.. One of those guys had even brought it up.

Talked about how Major urban cities are paying to drag stuff halfway across the continent for stuff they could get locally. Let alone supplying power. That government becomes more effective for local communities and or counties. Like the AP stated State Governments due to budget shortfalls are looking to pass the buck back to the counties more and more.

Mister D
07-14-2011, 06:14 PM
It's going to be interesting to see how this secession pans out. Not so much in terms of its concrete success (the OP states that it's considered a long shot) but in terms of how your average person reacts be they a resident of CA or not. The idea of secession becomes more and more palatable the more incompetent and hostile this government becomes.

Captain Obvious
07-14-2011, 06:28 PM
No doubt that would need congressional approval, right?

Good luck with that.

Mister D
07-14-2011, 06:29 PM
No doubt that would need congressional approval, right?

Good luck with that.


I'm not sure what that entails. When was the last time it happened? West VA became a state because the rest of Virginia was loyal to the Confederacy. I'm not sure when the last time a state split apart was.

Mister D
07-14-2011, 07:22 PM
A 2008 Zogby International poll revealed that 22% of Americans believed that "any state or region has the right to peaceably secede and become an independent republic."[2][3]

I thought that was interesting.

It looks like these state secession proposals are actually quite common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_secession_proposals#New_Jersey

MMC
07-14-2011, 07:59 PM
I would say so.....Yexas has mentioned it a few times. Plus I think Conn. did as well. 22% that will only increase as D said. Althought it is not really viable. Usually when such happens both would be hit economically.....hard!

Mister D
07-14-2011, 08:05 PM
I would say so.....Yexas has mentioned it a few times. Plus I think Conn. did as well. 22% that will only increase as D said. Althought it is not really viable. Usually when such happens both would be hit economically.....hard!


Apparently, there is a faction in south Jersey that wants a South New Jersey.

IMO, it will become viable when and if enough people want it. It's a matter of will. A lot of things seem far fetched until they happen. Who would have thought that a Third World military could have outlasted the US in Vietnam to use an example pertinent to your life? The idea would have seemed preposterous on paper.

MMC
07-14-2011, 08:16 PM
Well truthfully that can be blamed on the Democrats.....they chose to ignore history once again. For the answer was in front of their face the whole time. They did stop the Chinese from taking their lands.

Problem here is the US government won't go for it.....and will do whatever is necessary to prevent such from happening.

Mister D
07-14-2011, 08:20 PM
Well truthfully that can be blamed on the Democrats.....they chose to ignore history once again. For the answer was in front of their face the whole time. They did stop the Chinese from taking their lands.

Problem here is the US government won't go for it.....and will do whatever is necessary to prevent such from happening.


Well that's just it. The US government may not go for it but this isn't Lincoln's America. Do they have the will to stop the secession of a people that genuinely demand it? I'm not so sure.

freecell
07-15-2011, 12:17 PM
I just hope they don't try and put N and S Carolina together. Two states are completely different.
I live in North but I prefer people from South Carolina.

Mister D
07-15-2011, 12:25 PM
I just hope they don't try and put N and S Carolina together. Two states are completely different.
I live in North but I prefer people from South Carolina.


North Carolina encompasses parts of Appalachia, no? I have a Noprth Carolina CD banjo collection. Good stuff.

Conley
07-15-2011, 01:07 PM
A 2008 Zogby International poll revealed that 22% of Americans believed that "any state or region has the right to peaceably secede and become an independent republic."[2][3]

I thought that was interesting.

It looks like these state secession proposals are actually quite common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_secession_proposals#New_Jersey


that is quite a bit higher percentage than i would have thought...i bet the number is only higher now with the dissatisfaction with the fed govt and the continuing momentum of the tea party.

MMC
07-15-2011, 04:38 PM
Well truthfully that can be blamed on the Democrats.....they chose to ignore history once again. For the answer was in front of their face the whole time. They did stop the Chinese from taking their lands.

Problem here is the US government won't go for it.....and will do whatever is necessary to prevent such from happening.


Well that's just it. The US government may not go for it but this isn't Lincoln's America. Do they have the will to stop the secession of a people that genuinely demand it? I'm not so sure.


Ubetcha..... this Government is a living entity and it will strive for it's self preservation. All it takes are those who believe in it and for them to back the play. Already we have seen others have no problem firing on those without weapons. Even in this country.

Mister D
07-15-2011, 06:22 PM
Well truthfully that can be blamed on the Democrats.....they chose to ignore history once again. For the answer was in front of their face the whole time. They did stop the Chinese from taking their lands.

Problem here is the US government won't go for it.....and will do whatever is necessary to prevent such from happening.


Well that's just it. The US government may not go for it but this isn't Lincoln's America. Do they have the will to stop the secession of a people that genuinely demand it? I'm not so sure.


Ubetcha..... this Government is a living entity and it will strive for it's self preservation. All it takes are those who believe in it and for them to back the play. Already we have seen others have no problem firing on those without weapons. Even in this country.


I don't agree. I think this government is likely to collapse like a house of cards. They can't even win in Iraq and Afghanistan.

MMC
07-15-2011, 06:43 PM
While the pols might give that appearance.....homeland Secutiry has shown what their priorities are. Which will include Military Control for one.

Mister D
07-15-2011, 07:03 PM
While the pols might give that appearance.....homeland Secutiry has shown what their priorities are. Which will include Military Control for one.


We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

MMC
07-15-2011, 07:50 PM
I am not saying the people could not moblize.....I just don't think they will be ready for what they will discover about that entity. ;)

GRUMPY
07-16-2011, 06:52 AM
let us just kick cali to the curb and if they desire they can reapply for state status in total or just parts....we would charge them to keep our military bases where ever as we need them, because these facilities both protect them and stimulate the economy....of course we would have yet another porous border over run by illegals as cali turned into greece overnight....

MMC
07-16-2011, 07:30 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Flag_of_Texas.svg/22px-Flag_of_Texas.svg.pngTexas-While it would not technically constitute secession, it is worth noting that, under the joint resolution of Congress by which the Republic of Texas was admitted to the Union, it had the right to divide itself into as many as five different states. It is not clear whether this provides any power beyond that already provided by the Constitution. What is clear is that the Texas Legislature would have to approve any proposal to divide the state using this prerogative. There was a significant number of Texans who supported dividing the state in its early decades. They were generally called divisionists. However, no state has ever been allowed to secede from the Union.[54][55][56]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Flag_of_Vermont.svg/22px-Flag_of_Vermont.svg.pngVermont- as late as 2005.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Flag_of_Florida.svg/22px-Flag_of_Florida.svg.pngFlorida- from 2008-2011.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Flag_of_Oklahoma.svg/22px-Flag_of_Oklahoma.svg.pngOklahoma is far more the more important state to be discussing when it comes to secession. Oklahoma is one of 3 states of the contiguous 48 currently have a large involvement of secessionism from the USA in state government along with nearby Texas (the Republic of Texas) and Vermont (the Second Vermont Republic.)

Recently, the state of Oklahoma passed a statement in 2010 or 2011 declaring itself sovereign or having the right not to abide by federal law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_secession_proposals

Oklahoma, I would say is the one to be discussing moreso than California.....

Conley
07-16-2011, 08:37 AM
let us just kick cali to the curb and if they desire they can reapply for state status in total or just parts....we would charge them to keep our military bases where ever as we need them, because these facilities both protect them and stimulate the economy....of course we would have yet another porous border over run by illegals as cali turned into greece overnight....


except that san diego is one of the biggest military cities in the entire country, the economy of california makes up a huge percentage of the us economy, and for every $1 we pay in federal taxes we only see 78 cents come back, as opposed to your precious red states which are good at encouraging obese breeders like found in the peopleofwalmart.com website ;D

NJ is the worst, only getting 61 cents of their dollar...interesting how all the blue states fund the federal government, aint it? the divide is quite obvious in this chart...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html

Conley
07-16-2011, 08:39 AM
this reminds me of the thread, can't remember who started, Wowster I think, who thought that Texas would defeat the rest of the U.S. in a military battle for secession.

http://www.gwoltal.myfastmail.com/files/Clint%20Eastwood

Mister D
07-16-2011, 08:50 AM
That was Conan the Barbarian. ;D

Conley
07-16-2011, 08:51 AM
:D

Thanks D.

We are the official historians of the rant 8)

Mister D
07-16-2011, 08:56 AM
:D

Thanks D.

We are the official historians of the rant 8)


I remember that well.

Seriously, if a popular movement for secession with the will to take their independence by force of arms I'm not sure this government could do much about it.

Conley
07-16-2011, 09:00 AM
:D

Thanks D.

We are the official historians of the rant 8)


I remember that well.

Seriously, if a popular movement for secession with the will to take their independence by force of arms I'm not sure this government could do much about it.


I think this government has shown they are good at bombing the crap out of places (and yeah, not much else). I think Texas would be flattened, but not before causing major damage to the rest of the US. I think it would be bloody and painful.

MMC
07-16-2011, 09:11 AM
Yeah 2 Tank bases and an Airforce Base, as well as Artillery and an Infantry base. Yeah Texas aint going nowheres real fast like..... >:D lol If Home land security gets their way. Lets not forget in any apocalyptic scenario they would have the riens of the Government and whoever the President is.....any Executive Order will be put into effect.

According to that link tho many states have such proposals on the Table. So why the major focus upon California? Now anyways.

Conley
07-16-2011, 09:16 AM
they want our womens and our sticky icky? :boobs: :weedsmoking:

I don't really think this proposal is going to go anywhere, like you mentioned a lot of states talk about this but no one really does anything. It's the American way, all talk by the pols and no action.

Mister D
07-16-2011, 09:18 AM
There should be a major focus on CA because it's filled with Mexicans. Demography is destiny. I'm not sure why the US elite can't fathom this but their universal, coffee colored nation is a figment of their imagination. In this case, I'd imagine they are focusing on CA because this may appear to be a partisan move. Notice how they call them GOP leaning counties?

Remember, the US military isn't going to be a highly motivated force when it comes to waging a guerrilla war in the states.

Mister D
07-16-2011, 09:20 AM
:D

Thanks D.

We are the official historians of the rant 8)


I remember that well.

Seriously, if a popular movement for secession with the will to take their independence by force of arms I'm not sure this government could do much about it.


I think this government has shown they are good at bombing the crap out of places (and yeah, not much else). I think Texas would be flattened, but not before causing major damage to the rest of the US. I think it would be bloody and painful.


I'd imagine that any breakaway region of the US will ally itself with one or more of Washington's many enemies around the world.

Conley
07-16-2011, 09:23 AM
am I crazy or did the :weedsmoking: use to move? I swear I thought it did...hrrrm

anyhow, back to the thread

i agree our military would not engage in a guerrilla attack, but lobbing bombs and missiles would be no problem. let's hope is doesn't come to that. the mexican issue and this idea that california will secede is incongruent to me. mexicans are coming here precisely to become part of america and all the benefits it provides. if they wanted CA to secede then they would end up with just another mexico.

Mister D
07-16-2011, 09:34 AM
am I crazy or did the :weedsmoking: use to move? I swear I thought it did...hrrrm

anyhow, back to the thread

i agree our military would not engage in a guerrilla attack, but lobbing bombs and missiles would be no problem. let's hope is doesn't come to that. the mexican issue and this idea that california will secede is incongruent to me. mexicans are coming here precisely to become part of america and all the benefits it provides. if they wanted CA to secede then they would end up with just another mexico.


I don't think that there is a conspiracy to bring this about or that this is the idea Mexicans have in their minds when they cross the border but as a region like CA becomes populated predominantly by persons of Mexican descent and as a Spanish dialect increasingly becomes the language of everyday experience what real ties will CA and other regions like it have with the rest of the US? Moreover, what happens when the money runs out or when the jobs dry up and CA is left with a poorly educated population? Will more parts of CA start looking a heck of lot like Mexico?

Conley
07-16-2011, 09:39 AM
am I crazy or did the :weedsmoking: use to move? I swear I thought it did...hrrrm

anyhow, back to the thread

i agree our military would not engage in a guerrilla attack, but lobbing bombs and missiles would be no problem. let's hope is doesn't come to that. the mexican issue and this idea that california will secede is incongruent to me. mexicans are coming here precisely to become part of america and all the benefits it provides. if they wanted CA to secede then they would end up with just another mexico.


I don't think that there is a conspiracy to bring this about or that this is the idea Mexicans have in their minds when they cross the border but as a region like CA becomes populated predominantly by persons of Mexican descent and as a Spanish dialect increasingly becomes the language of everyday experience what real ties will CA and other regions like it have with the rest of the US? Moreover, what happens when the money runs out or when the jobs dry up and CA is left with a poorly educated population? Will more parts of CA start looking a heck of lot like Mexico?


agreed entirely...that is already happening.

it is strange to live around it because at least here in san diego, just like the rest of the country, you have these areas of immigrants, spanish speaking and poor, and then these insanely affluent white areas where people are just living in a bubble, seemingly completely unaware of their surroundings. they are going to be in for a rude awakening.

MMC
07-16-2011, 09:54 AM
Yeah I noticed when it said GOP Counties. Hence my thinking is that the Repubs don' think they can effectively represent their people in a Democratically State held government that remains deadlocked.

Though elsewheres some thought it might be over a water issue as well. I figured CL would know more about that out there in the land of SunShine.....http://www.politicalhotwire.com/images/smilies/MOCKING/moon.gif >:D lol

Conley
07-16-2011, 10:09 AM
Yeah I noticed when it said GOP Counties. Hence my thinking is that the Repubs don' think they can effectively represent their people in a Democratically State held government that remains deadlocked.

Though elsewheres some thought it might be over a water issue as well. I figured CL would know more about that out there in the land of SunShine.....http://www.politicalhotwire.com/images/smilies/MOCKING/moon.gif >:D lol


that aint the sun, that's the moon ;D

MMC
07-16-2011, 11:46 AM
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=984145072767&id=7bc22a38327764d40a4f576568ca00fb&url=http%3a%2f%2fmedia.nowpublic.net%2fimages%2fa5 %2f1%2fa51f7b9da1070408f1ac280e15a28b00.jpg

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=981432087300&id=cf39913e9a04d021508f296aeb87bfa0&url=http%3a%2f%2ffiles.g4tv.com%2fImageDb3%2f20520 1_S%2fLucky-The-Leprechaun.jpg

Sun, Moon, throw in some Green Clovers and Blue Stars.....and it's all Lucky Charms out there in Californification. >:D

Mister D
07-16-2011, 12:01 PM
Been a long time since I've had Lucky Charms.

MMC
07-16-2011, 12:30 PM
The Cereal or the Baywatch Babes..... >:D ;D

Mister D
07-16-2011, 03:24 PM
am I crazy or did the :weedsmoking: use to move? I swear I thought it did...hrrrm

anyhow, back to the thread

i agree our military would not engage in a guerrilla attack, but lobbing bombs and missiles would be no problem. let's hope is doesn't come to that. the mexican issue and this idea that california will secede is incongruent to me. mexicans are coming here precisely to become part of america and all the benefits it provides. if they wanted CA to secede then they would end up with just another mexico.


I don't think that there is a conspiracy to bring this about or that this is the idea Mexicans have in their minds when they cross the border but as a region like CA becomes populated predominantly by persons of Mexican descent and as a Spanish dialect increasingly becomes the language of everyday experience what real ties will CA and other regions like it have with the rest of the US? Moreover, what happens when the money runs out or when the jobs dry up and CA is left with a poorly educated population? Will more parts of CA start looking a heck of lot like Mexico?


agreed entirely...that is already happening.

it is strange to live around it because at least here in san diego, just like the rest of the country, you have these areas of immigrants, spanish speaking and poor, and then these insanely affluent white areas where people are just living in a bubble, seemingly completely unaware of their surroundings. they are going to be in for a rude awakening.


That's a good way of putting it. Even though people live in in close proximity to each other there is still a great deal of cultural and emotional isolation.

I read that CA is losing people to Oregon and Nevada. Is that true?

Mister D
07-16-2011, 03:24 PM
The Cereal or the Baywatch Babes..... >:D ;D


The cereal ya dirty old man. ;) It's whole grain, BTW. Keeps the colon in proper working order. :)

MMC
07-17-2011, 12:57 PM
Thats twice I have heard they always bring this up with the water issue in Cali.....is that true CL?

Conley
07-17-2011, 01:10 PM
Definitely people in Oregon and Washington hate all the Californias that have moved to their states -- Oregon and Washington people are moving to Montana to get away!

Overall the population of California is still shooting up D, but I think that is because of the growth rate of the Hispanic population already here. There are only a few million illegals by most estimates (a lot but not much in terms of CA's general population).

The water is a huge problem for Southern California, a lot of it comes from snow pack from the Sierra Nevada range and we fight for it with Nevada. The drought recently ended but prices are still sky high. As you can imagine, all of that is very political.

Mister D
07-17-2011, 01:29 PM
Interesting.

I've heard the water issues discussed on the news in recent years. Even Hannity did special on it although I'd imagine it was just to take a swipe at environmentalists.

Conley
07-17-2011, 01:46 PM
D, when you said CA is 'losing people' to OR and NV, what did you mean exactly? Did you mean the overall population of CA was going down or that more people were moving from CA to OR than OR to CA, for example. Definitely there are lots of Californians moving to those two states.

Conley
07-17-2011, 01:56 PM
good to see :weedsmoking: is back to his usual dancing, I swear for a while he wasn't!

Mister D
07-17-2011, 02:08 PM
D, when you said CA is 'losing people' to OR and NV, what did you mean exactly? Did you mean the overall population of CA was going down or that more people were moving from CA to OR than OR to CA, for example. Definitely there are lots of Californians moving to those two states.


I thought I read that CA was losing people but now that I think about it it was on VDare whose raison d'ętre is the immigration issue. They were probably referring to the movement of natives (black and white) out of the state. So, no, it was probably not an overall population decline but a decline among certain demographics. That would fit with what you're saying.

Conley
07-17-2011, 02:34 PM
Gotcha, just speaking off the top of my head but I'd be certain that percentage wise the white population in CA continues to decline, and in terms of actual numbers I think it's probably either flat or somewhat declining...