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Paperback Writer
09-21-2013, 05:01 PM
Ted Cruz's Threat To Shut Down The Government Is Brave And Principled And That's Why Republicans Are Upset With Him
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ted-cruzs-threat-shut-down-193721151.html


Texas Senator Ted Cruz and a band of fellow travelers are promising to block the continuing resolution (in other words shut down the government) unless somehow the Congress passes (and Obama signs) a bill that would defund Obamacare.Now if you think there's any chance that Obama will sign a bill to defund his signature program, on the eve of it going into effect, you're probably living on another planet. But on the other hand, Republicans in the age of Obama are not known for being compromisy. It's smash-nose politics all the way down.Except, oddly, the Republican party is pissed off at Ted Cruz.See, Cruz has been making life kind of miserable (http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-cruz-is-making-life-miserable-for-house-republicans-2013-9) for a lot of House Republicans all summer by holding rallies, and pressuring them to vote to defund Obamacare. Essentially he's being an interloper from the Senate, getting in the House's business. Eventually, this week they did successfully hold a vote that would keep the government funded at current levels of spending, with the exception of Obamacare.


I'm curious what Americans who vote Republican think of this op ed piece. I see a giant division within Republicans between those who are compromisers (is that a word?) and those who stand on principle, or do you see it differently?

Peter1469
09-21-2013, 05:29 PM
No you are correct.

There are people in America who think that the current system is unsustainable. So compromise doesn't help. It just kicks the can down the road.

AmazonTania
09-21-2013, 05:53 PM
Congress hasn't passed a budget since 2009. What's the worse shutting down the place could do?

Peter1469
09-21-2013, 06:07 PM
Congress hasn't passed a budget since 2009. What's the worse shutting down the place could do?

I don't think that Congress will shut down. If they do, America will realize they have not missed anything. That is the last thing congress wants.

Alyosha
09-21-2013, 06:52 PM
I don't think that Congress will shut down. If they do, America will realize they have not missed anything. That is the last thing congress wants.

This, plus +20 for the falcon.

zelmo1234
09-21-2013, 06:56 PM
It is not only the republicans, the democrats are for things they were against when Bush was in office.

For some reason dong what is right, has become taboo in Washington

ptif219
09-21-2013, 06:57 PM
I don't understand the Democrats stopping a 2 month extension to work out the difference. Obamacare is not ready they got glitches and security problems. Obama should accept this gift and use it to work with congress and use it to get Obamacare data base working properly.

Let the democrats be stupid and shutdown the government

roadmaster
09-21-2013, 11:34 PM
Will we notice?

snali
09-22-2013, 10:59 AM
i find it doubtful that a shutdown of the government could happen. there would be brinkmanship then at the 11th hour both sides have a deal to kick it down the road.

Chris
09-22-2013, 11:04 AM
Not a Rep but Reps are divided between establishment compromisers and more or less Tea Party noncompromisers.

I think we saw similar during the short life of Contract with America, before its leaders sold out to establishment GOPers.


Goldberg had what I think some interesting comments on what's happening right now @ Cruz's Defund Obamacare Con Has Been Exposed, Won't Work (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/09/20/goldberg_cruzs_defund_obamacare_con_has_been_expos ed_wont_work.html):


There is definitely a lot of kabuki theater in this, I'll have to find another Japanese word. In some ways, there has been -- it's sort of like a long con, where you try to convince people to part with their money, and the trick is that the con artist is supposed to leave before they realize it's a con. And what's happened here is this whole defund Obamacare thing has been exposed with the sort of the con artist still left out there. I like Ted Cruz, I like Mike Lee, but these guys have been selling a plan that simply won't work and they have been denouncing anyone that says it won't work as prematurely surrendering, when in fact, all they were doing is predicting where the facts would take them.

jillian
09-22-2013, 11:12 AM
Ted Cruz's Threat To Shut Down The Government Is Brave And Principled — And That's Why Republicans Are Upset With Him


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ted-cruzs-threat-shut-down-193721151.html



I'm curious what Americans who vote Republican think of this op ed piece. I see a giant division within Republicans between those who are compromisers (is that a word?) and those who stand on principle, or do you see it differently?

well, you can call it standing on principles... or you can say they've been throwing a giant temper tantrum for the past five years.

jillian
09-22-2013, 11:13 AM
I don't think that Congress will shut down. If they do, America will realize they have not missed anything. That is the last thing congress wants.

you really believe that?

i suspect if you fly and the air traffic controllers aren't being paid, you might feel differently...

or if you need to mail something...

or if you collect social security...

or ... or... or...

Chris
09-22-2013, 11:14 AM
well, you can call it standing on principles... or you can say they've been throwing a giant temper tantrum for the past five years.



Indeed, it all depends on how you want to spin it but either way is spin.

Chris
09-22-2013, 11:16 AM
you really believe that?

i suspect if you fly and the air traffic controllers aren't being paid, you might feel differently...

or if you need to mail something...

or if you collect social security...

or ... or... or...



Standard liberal fear-mongering.

@ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdown: "In U.S. politics, a government shutdown is a situation in which the government stops providing all but "essential" services."

Alyosha
09-22-2013, 11:46 AM
well, you can call it standing on principles... or you can say they've been throwing a giant temper tantrum for the past five years.

No more than the Dems before them. Both sides throw public fits and then hang out on the Hill bars on Friday nights drinking together. I went to law school in DC and it was amusing to watch people on CSPAN and then see them laughing it up.

K Street rules the nation. Obamacare should be called InsuranceCare because it is fellating Kaiser, Blue Cross, United, and the other biggies.

Our Congress writes the laws their corporate sponsors tell them to write. They should wear patches like Nascar drivers.

Alyosha
09-22-2013, 11:48 AM
you really believe that?

i suspect if you fly and the air traffic controllers aren't being paid, you might feel differently...

or if you need to mail something...

or if you collect social security...

or ... or... or...

Or the Dems could defund Obamacare. They have choices, too. They're behind on it anyway and if it goes to the field it will be a huge mess. This is the best thing that ever happened to them.

Obama promised to get the VA system up and running within a year. Five years later it still isn't running, but Obamacare is going to roll out seamlessly?

Highly doubtful.

jillian
09-22-2013, 11:53 AM
Or the Dems could defund Obamacare. They have choices, too. They're behind on it anyway and if it goes to the field it will be a huge mess. This is the best thing that ever happened to them.

Obama promised to get the VA system up and running within a year. Five years later it still isn't running, but Obamacare is going to roll out seamlessly?

Highly doubtful.

why would they do that? that would be the stupidest thing they could ever do... pathetically so, actually.

though no doubt the temper-tantrum throwing extremists would love to have that to use during the next elections.

i'd prefer we get to run against the nuts who shut down the government.

Chris
09-22-2013, 11:54 AM
No more than the Dems before them. Both sides throw public fits and then hang out on the Hill bars on Friday nights drinking together. I went to law school in DC and it was amusing to watch people on CSPAN and then see them laughing it up.

K Street rules the nation. Obamacare should be called InsuranceCare because it is fellating Kaiser, Blue Cross, United, and the other biggies.

Our Congress writes the laws their corporate sponsors tell them to write. They should wear patches like Nascar drivers.



The only thing that's changed when Obama took office is the crony capitalism move from K Street to the White House.

zelmo1234
09-22-2013, 12:05 PM
you really believe that?

i suspect if you fly and the air traffic controllers aren't being paid, you might feel differently...

or if you need to mail something...

or if you collect social security...

or ... or... or...

Well I have very good news for you?

You see the good news, is that we don't need a expansion of the debt ceiling to pay the bills, that money already comes in and we of course can pay our bills with that money, the US post office is self funding, and there is plenty of money for SS and the military.

Truth is that if the government were to shut down for a while, the people would figure out that they really need very little of what theses idiots do

jillian
09-22-2013, 12:08 PM
Well I have very good news for you?

You see the good news, is that we don't need a expansion of the debt ceiling to pay the bills, that money already comes in and we of course can pay our bills with that money, the US post office is self funding, and there is plenty of money for SS and the military.

Truth is that if the government were to shut down for a while, the people would figure out that they really need very little of what theses idiots do


okie dokie cookie... i think the rightwing extremists should keep doing exactly what they're doing.

zelmo1234
09-22-2013, 12:09 PM
okie dokie cookie... I think the rightwing extremists should keep doing exactly what they're doing.

me too! :)

Chris
09-22-2013, 12:13 PM
Me three.

Agravan
09-22-2013, 12:16 PM
The word "extremist" is becoming as meaningless as the word "racist".
Everyone that jilly-girl disagrees with is an "extremist", or a "racist".
jilly-girl can't just disagree with someone, she has to vilify them in order to justify her disagreement. Civil discourse in not in her vocabulary.

Chris
09-22-2013, 12:18 PM
The word "extremist" is becoming as meaningless as the word "racist".
Everyone that jilly-girl disagrees with is an "extremist", or a "racist".
jilly-girl can't just disagree with someone, she has to vilify them in order to justify her disagreement. Civil discourse in not in her vocabulary.



Disagreement, what disagreement? :-P

ptif219
09-22-2013, 01:23 PM
i find it doubtful that a shutdown of the government could happen. there would be brinkmanship then at the 11th hour both sides have a deal to kick it down the road.

If Reid rejects this that means democrats and Obama want to shut down the government. All this it is a 2 month delay to keep working on a solution. There is no reason to reject a 2 month delay. Rejecting this shows the democrats are partisan obstructionist that don't care about the American people

ptif219
09-22-2013, 01:26 PM
Not a Rep but Reps are divided between establishment compromisers and more or less Tea Party noncompromisers.

I think we saw similar during the short life of Contract with America, before its leaders sold out to establishment GOPers.


Goldberg had what I think some interesting comments on what's happening right now @ Cruz's Defund Obamacare Con Has Been Exposed, Won't Work (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/09/20/goldberg_cruzs_defund_obamacare_con_has_been_expos ed_wont_work.html):

No one else has a solution. So the washington establishment GOP needs to support Cruz and the house CR

Alyosha
09-22-2013, 02:22 PM
why would they do that? that would be the stupidest thing they could ever do... pathetically so, actually.

Because it's a technological clusterfuck of medical codes and if they can't get the VA straight as PW points out and that's small and self-contained this will never happen without a trillion dollars pumped into it.

Because while the extreme poor are taken care of the middle class--especially lower middle-- who are scraping by each month will have less money for better food, to put aside for their kids colleges, etc.

It does nothing for them or for mid sized businesses that employ AMERICAN workers that buy things here in AMERICA.




though no doubt the temper-tantrum throwing extremists would love to have that to use during the next elections.


The best thing for the Republicans would be to have them hurry up Obamacare before 2014. They'd win in a landslide, that's why the Dems are all for extensions.



i'd prefer we get to run against the nuts who shut down the government.

I'd prefer every single Democrat who voted for it have to use it for their kids and I prefer they also go hang out with the families making $42k a year and see how much they love Obamacare.

lynn
09-22-2013, 04:52 PM
Obama is pulling all strings to make sure this exchange works. Employers are now allowed to put their employees on the exchange as long as they pay their subsidy. This is a guarantee that the exchange gets that healthy young population. Who wins here - the health insurance companies that will now fully insure those individuals. Over this past decade most of the insured work for employers that decided to get in the profit game by self-insuring which means the employer takes the risk for their employees. All premiums go into the employer's bank account and they would only pay the health insurance company to administer the plan.

Employees would never know that their employer was actually paying for all health claims since the employer paid the insurance company the contract rate and the insurance paid the provider. At last count 60 million people were under a self-insured employer. The health insurance companies altogether only have 11 million people in their pool that are fully insured.

Employers that are self-insured have not once complained about high healthcare cost and in fact are profiting off of their healthy employees that seldom require care. Meanwhile of course, they are collecting out of every one of their paychecks a portion of their premiums. Those employees are actually taking a paycut whether they realize it or not if they never needed healthcare.

jillian
09-22-2013, 05:00 PM
me too! :)

Good luck winning another national election. Lol

Agravan
09-22-2013, 05:01 PM
Good luck winning another national election. Lol

That's what you guys say after every election. How has that worked out for you?

jillian
09-22-2013, 05:05 PM
That's what you guys say after every election. How has that worked out for you?

You lost the last two national elections it workd out pretty well....

which is is why the right has been stamping its collective feet for the last five years.

Codename Section
09-22-2013, 05:14 PM
You lost the last two national elections it workd out pretty well....

which is is why the right has been stamping its collective feet for the last five years.

The first time Obama ran he was running after 8 years of Republicans and a ticket of war. He promised hope and change and gave us George Bush II. If he'd run in 2012 against someone who wasn't his rich white twin he might not have won again. 60+ million people who could vote chose not to. That doesn't say a lot for either candidate.

ptif219
09-22-2013, 05:59 PM
Obama is pulling all strings to make sure this exchange works. Employers are now allowed to put their employees on the exchange as long as they pay their subsidy. This is a guarantee that the exchange gets that healthy young population. Who wins here - the health insurance companies that will now fully insure those individuals. Over this past decade most of the insured work for employers that decided to get in the profit game by self-insuring which means the employer takes the risk for their employees. All premiums go into the employer's bank account and they would only pay the health insurance company to administer the plan.

Employees would never know that their employer was actually paying for all health claims since the employer paid the insurance company the contract rate and the insurance paid the provider. At last count 60 million people were under a self-insured employer. The health insurance companies altogether only have 11 million people in their pool that are fully insured.

Employers that are self-insured have not once complained about high healthcare cost and in fact are profiting off of their healthy employees that seldom require care. Meanwhile of course, they are collecting out of every one of their paychecks a portion of their premiums. Those employees are actually taking a paycut whether they realize it or not if they never needed healthcare.

The data base is not ready

ptif219
09-22-2013, 06:01 PM
You lost the last two national elections it workd out pretty well....

which is is why the right has been stamping its collective feet for the last five years.

When the GOP gets back to nominating Conservatives they will win

Agravan
09-22-2013, 06:09 PM
You lost the last two national elections it workd out pretty well....

which is is why the right has been stamping its collective feet for the last five years.

OK, here we go again with the "you lost two elections so you'll never win another, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH"
Of course, he came in after YOU guys lost two elections, did anyone pronounce your party dead then? 5 years of foot stamping? This after the eight years of "selected not elected"? After a multitude of recounts in democratic controlled areas that Gore STILL lost?
what about the 3 elections before Clinton? Did your party die then? Did that spell doom and extinction for your party? No. You guys came back then, and conservatives will come back also. Maybe not this next election, but they WILL come back. People get tired of the party in power after a few years. You should know that, but keep your blinders on. keep hoping and praying that your party will rule (not lead, because you don't believe in leadership, you believe in despotism), forever. Those of us in the real world realize that politics, like climate change, is cyclic.

Chris
09-22-2013, 06:13 PM
OK, here we go again with the "you lost two elections so you'll never win another, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH"
Of course, he came in after YOU guys lost two elections, did anyone pronounce your party dead then? 5 years of foot stamping? This after the eight years of "selected not elected"? After a multitude of recounts in democratic controlled areas that Gore STILL lost?
what about the 3 elections before Clinton? Did your party die then? Did that spell doom and extinction for your party? No. You guys came back then, and conservatives will come back also. Maybe not this next election, but they WILL come back. People get tired of the party in power after a few years. You should know that, but keep your blinders on. keep hoping and praying that your party will rule (not lead, because you don't believe in leadership, you believe in despotism), forever. Those of us in the real world realize that politics, like climate change, is cyclic.


That Cigar Gambit of winning gets old, doesn't it. Why is the House in the hands of Republicans? WHy is the presidential winner by a narrow margin so unpopular?

zelmo1234
09-22-2013, 06:54 PM
Good luck winning another national election. Lol

You know I have this thing called memory. and I remember that GWB was going to get smoked by Gore, and Kerry was gong to win by double digits, and yet that did not happen?

Liberals were so sure they even said to Kerry may I be the first to call you Mr. President.

I also remember that even with moderates Dole, McCain, and Romney we actually received a higher percentage of the vote than that Liberal hero Clinton, who won both of his elections due to a short little man. Ross Paroit?

But the biggest thing I remember is that they almost laughed at Reagan, Carter was going to crucify him, he was and old school conservative and that was dead and gone. I remember the media actually laughing at his smaller government and tax cutting ideas. The were openly angry with his rhetoric on Iran and The USSR, and yet he wan both elections by huge margins?

So thank you for your concern, and if you are right, then I would rather have a liberal democrat in the White House than a liberal Republican. It is my opinion that the only way back to sanity in this country is through insolvency.

Will people suffer YES, but it is the only way that we are going to get back to personal responsibility