Once Again: What The Right Doesn’t Want You To Know About Welfare: 9 Myths Exploded

[Cigar]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Children-on-welfare.jpg

Would anybody like to guess who makes up the single largest group on welfare?
Children. One in every four children in the U.S. receives welfare benefits.

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

Fact: The welfare reform law that was signed by President Clinton in 1996 largely turned control over welfare benefits to the states, but the federal government provides some of the funding for state welfare programs through a program called Temporary Assistance For Needy Families (TANF). TANF grants to states require that all welfare recipients must find work within two years of first receiving benefits. This includes single parents, who are required to work at least 30 hours per week. Two-parent families are required to work 35 to 50 hours per week. Failure to obtain work could result in loss of benefits. It is also worth noting that, thanks to the pay offerings of companies such as Walmart, many who work at low wage jobs qualify for public assistance, even though they work full-time.


Myth: “People who go on welfare stay on it forever.”
Fact: According to statisticbrain.com, the vast majority of TANF recipients, 80.4 percent, receive benefits for five years or less. (The site still refers to the program by the old name of Aid To Families With Dependent Children. AFDC is the program that seems to be most often identified with the term “welfare.” AFDC programs were replaced at the federal level by TANF in 1996, but it is still common to hear the program referred to as AFDC.)

Myth: “There’s a woman in Chicago. She has 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards. … She’s got Medicaid, getting food stamps and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income alone is over $150,000″ – Ronald Reagan
Fact: Ah, the “welfare queen.” Ronny loved to tell his stories, and his welfare queen story is one of the most popular. The only problem is, the woman he talked about didn’t exist. There is some evidence that elements of this story may have been based on facts, but the descriptions of abuse by an actual woman were wildly exaggerated by Reagan.

Myth: “Welfare recipients keep having more kids so they can get more benefits.”
Fact: According to a 2010 report released by the federal Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the average family receiving TANF benefits has 1.8 children, which is about the same as the national average. Half of the families receiving TANF benefits only have one child. In fact, the average size of families receiving welfare benefits has declined from 4.0 in 1969 to 2.4 in 2010. Also, some states, such as Delaware and Georgia, make it clear to those who sign up for TANF benefits that their benefits will not increase if they have additional children. Taken from the Delaware Department of Health and Human Services website:

Myth: “Where Is The U.S. Headed If More Than 100 Million People Get Welfare?” – Headline of August 2012 column by CNN’s Jack Cafferty (http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/09/where-is-the-u-s-headed-if-more-than-100-million-people-get-welfare-2/)

Fact: 100 million Americans on welfare? Cafferty apparently gets his information from a biased source, the Center For Immigration Studies, which is connected to identified racist John Tanton (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/13/tea-partiers-to-address-rally-organized-by-group-with-racist-ties/). According to the 2010 federal HHS report (http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/character/fy2010/fy2010-chap10-ys-final), 1,084,828 adults and 3,280,153 children received TANF benefits that year, a far cry from 100 million.

Myth: ”I see these guys all the time, hanging out and drinking, and doing drugs, collecting welfare instead of working.”

Fact: The able-bodied single male with no dependent children who collects welfare in the United States pretty much does not exist, since the primary goal of most welfare programs is to provide temporary support for children and families (http://www.wisegeek.com/who-is-eligible-for-welfare-in-the-united-states.htm). Single males can receive certain benefits, such as Supplemental Security Income (SSI) (http://www.ssa.gov/ssi) if they are disabled.


Myth: “Most welfare recipients are drug users.”

Fact: That’s apparently what Florida governor Rick Scott thought, too. The state of Florida began drug testing welfare recipients in 2011. About 2 percent tested positive for drug use (http://tbo.com/ap/politics/welfare-drug-testing-yields--positive-results-252458). According to the New York Times, federal statistics show that the rate of drug use among welfare recipients (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/us/support-grows-for-idea-of-drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients.html) is about the same as it is for the public at large.


Myth: “Most welfare recipients are minorities and illegal immigrants.”

Fact: TANF benefits were paid out to roughly the same percentage of white and black recipients in 2010 (http://archive.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/character/fy2010/fy2010_chap10_ys_final.html), according to the HHS report. In fact, the percentage of black families receiving welfare benefits has declined by almost 7 percent since 2000. Regarding illegal immigrants: those who are in the United States illegally are ineligible for benefits (http://www.tolerance.org/immigration-myths) other than emergency Medicaid.


Myth: ”People collect welfare instead of work, and they get rich. They all have iPhones, drive new cars, have widescreen tv’s, etc. I work and I can’t afford any of that!”

Fact: Since welfare payments vary by state and by the size of the family, it’s hard to provide all the pertinent numbers here, but here are some ranges (http://www.welfareinfo.org/payments/):



A family of four can expect up to $500 a month in food stamp benefits. A single person can expect an average of $200 a month.
The average monthly allowance under TANF/AFDC is $900 for a family of four. For a single person the average is about $300.


It would be interesting to see what kind of “new car” anyone could buy on that income, or even an iPhone, for that matter. (Remember, despite what Newt Gingrich may have claimed during the 2012 election campaign, you can’t use food stamps for anything except food, so when you’re figuring how much money someone might have for an iPhone or a car, take that money out of the equation.) It is also worth observing that the people who sneer about welfare recipients having those things don’t take into consideration that the person may have had that iPhone or car before having to go on welfare. Along these lines, perhaps the most laughable criticism is of welfare recipients who have tattoos. Tattoos are permanent, folks! How do you know that someone got a tattoo after starting to receive welfare?


One final fact about welfare. Would anybody like to guess who makes up the single largest group on welfare in the United States? It’s children (http://www.nieman.harvard.edu/reportsitem.aspx?id=102223) :angry:. One out of every four children in the United States receives welfare benefits.


Because the rules surrounding TANF require recipients to look for work, the problem is not with laziness, or a lack of education, but rather with the availability of jobs with good wages and benefits. Were more parents able to find well-paying jobs, fewer of their children would need welfare benefits. In fact, were more good jobs available, fewer Americans in general would need the assistance of welfare.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/20/what-the-right-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about-welfare-9-myths-exploded/

:stirthepot:Now here comes the most entertaining part ... The Deniers and Racist Haters ... sit back and Marvell at them :f_doh: it's truly classic.

[AmazonTania]

Strawman Fallacy

[Alyosha]

I would have not a bit of an issue with entitlement programs if none of the regulations governing them came from the federal government, if none of the monies came through federal taxation, and were wholly owned, operated, and managed by the states.

I lived in a project neighborhood myself and while all these myth-bustings sound nice, they're also not really busting myths. Poor people aren't stupid and everyone knew how to bend the rules.

If you make $50 over the cut off you get nothing so most people tried to lower their work hours for $800 extra in benefits.

There should be an incentive within the system to do better, there should be a feedback loop, personal communication, individual assistance, etc.

[jillian]

Strawman Fallacy

in other words, you have nothing to say.

[jillian]

I would have not a bit of an issue with entitlement programs if none of the regulations governing them came from the federal government, if none of the monies came through federal taxation, and were wholly owned, operated, and managed by the states.

I lived in a project neighborhood myself and while all these myth-bustings sound nice, they're also not really busting myths. Poor people aren't stupid and everyone knew how to bend the rules.

If you make $50 over the cut off you get nothing so most people tried to lower their work hours for $800 extra in benefits.

There should be an incentive within the system to do better, there should be a feedback loop, personal communication, individual assistance, etc.

in other words you hate the constitution of the united states.

[AmazonTania]

in other words, you have nothing to say.

Why should I have anything to say about a strawman fallacy? Strawman are great for people who can't correlate strong arguments. Right up your alley.

[Cigar]

in other words, you have nothing to say.

It's a zero-data-auto-reflex function... they can't help it. :laugh:

[AmazonTania]

in other words you hate the constitution of the united states.

Brillant strawman fallacy. You keep proving my point with each word you type.

Now what does the constitution have to do with entitlement programs?

[Cigar]

Brillant strawman fallacy. You keep proving my point with each word you type.

Now what does the constitution have to do with entitlement programs?

Any Data to back up your claim?

Or are you just gyrating for show?

[Mr Happy]

Strawman Fallacy

C'mon Chris Mark II - refute the points one by one and provide sources...

Take your time..

[AmazonTania]

C'mon Chris Mark II - refute the points one by one and provide sources...

Take your time..

You're not very bright, are you...

They're not points I support nor have I advocated, therefore, attaching this position to me is a strawman fallacy. And since these myths merely quotes about other people, without any particular reference, it's a straw man fallacy on a broader scale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[AmazonTania]

Any Data to back up your claim?

Or are you just gyrating for show?

What claims have I made? Think before you type.

[zelmo1234]

Here are some statistics that some will find interesting

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Liberals would have us believe that there are no people living off or abusing the system, yet over 50% of the people have been on the programs for over 2 years, and 20% for over 5 years

This is not a system helping people get by, it is a lifestyle

[Cigar]

Wow ... that was really easy ... talk about Glass Jaws :laugh:

[Mister D]

Myth: “Most welfare recipients are minorities and illegal immigrants.”


Fact: TANF benefits were paid out to roughly the same percentage of white and black recipients in 2010 (http://archive.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/character/fy2010/fy2010_chap10_ys_final.html), according to the HHS report. In fact, the percentage of black families receiving welfare benefits has declined by almost 7 percent since 2000. Regarding illegal immigrants: those who are in the United States illegally are ineligible for benefits (http://www.tolerance.org/immigration-myths) other than emergency Medicaid.

It's always amazing when someone cites data proving themselves wrong. As per the link provided, non-Hispanic whites comprised 31.8% of total recipients in 2010, blacks comprised 31.9%, and Hispanics 30%. That means that blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately represented and grossly so. The former by almost 250%.

[AmazonTania]

What claims have I made? Think before you type.

[Mr Happy]

You're not very bright, are you...

They're not points I support nor have I advocated, therefore, attaching this position to me is a strawman fallacy. And since these myths merely quotes about other people, without any particular reference, it's a straw man fallacy on a broader scale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

C'mon Chris, you can do better than that. Do I have to spell it out for you? You called Cigar's OP a strawman. Why is it a strawman? Either put up or shut up. BTW, if I was a nark you'd be banned from this thread. I'm not though...so it's your lucky day.

Edit: Your claim is that Cigar's OP is a strawman...Do you want me to point to the post? I shouldn't need to. After all you're the genius around these parts its seems...

[Cigar]

Here are some statistics that some will find interesting

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Liberals would have us believe that there are no people living off or abusing the system, yet over 50% of the people have been on the programs for over 2 years, and 20% for over 5 years

This is not a system helping people get by, it is a lifestyle

The data does not show who is and who isn't abusing the system ... where did you get your data that substantiates that claim?

... also, if 53.5 % are on the system no more than 1 to 2 years, how can your claim to "yet over 50% of the people have been on the programs for over 2 years" be true?

Is this a different arithmetic system?

[Mister D]

C'mon Chris, you can do better than that. Do I have to spell it out for you? You called Cigar's OP a strawman. Why is it a strawman? Either put up or shut up. BTW, if I was a nark you'd be banned from this thread. I'm not though...so it's your lucky day.

Edit: Your claim is that Cigar's OP is a strawman...Do you want me to point to the post? I shouldn't need to. After all you're the genius around these parts its seems...

Probably because the OP attributes views to "the right" without naming names or providing any evidence that such views are common or even if they exist at all. That is a straw man.

[Cigar]

What claims have I made? Think before you type.

Strawman Fallacy

http://dearestscooter.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/thick-glasses-1.jpg
Can you see it now :wink:

[Cigar]

Probably because the OP attributes views to "the right" without naming names or providing any evidence that such views are common or even if they exist at all. That is a straw man.

Search this Forum ... :laugh:

[zelmo1234]

C'mon Chris, you can do better than that. Do I have to spell it out for you? You called Cigar's OP a strawman. Why is it a strawman? Either put up or shut up. BTW, if I was a nark you'd be banned from this thread. I'm not though...so it's your lucky day.

Actually it is you that are calling names? "Chris" and should be ban from the thread. but you are a liberal and that is not likely to happen!

While she did not make a claim and of course this is not the first time Cigar has posted this, she is not addressing your request.

However dipshit, I did address your request with the actual statistics, and had you bothered to look, you would see that Cigars 9 myths, while very heart touching, and compassionate, have no basis in what is actually happening in the Welfare system.

You are now dismissed

[Mister D]

Search this Forum ... :laugh:

That's your job. It remains a straw man until it can be substantiated.

[Mr Happy]

Probably because the OP attributes views to "the right" without naming names or providing any evidence that such views are common or even if they exist at all. That is a straw man.

Do I really have to trawl through every post on this board and others showing the likes of Libhater etc saying exactly that? Do I?

[Mr Happy]

Probably because the OP attributes views to "the right" without naming names or providing any evidence that such views are common or even if they exist at all. That is a straw man.

Ronnie Raygun was a leftie??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen

[AmazonTania]

C'mon Chris, you can do better than that. Do I have to spell it out for you? You called Cigar's OP a strawman. Why is it a strawman? Either put up or shut up.

I've already explained why its a strawman fallacy. It's really not my problem your comprehension is less to be desired.

BTW, if I was a nark you'd be banned from this thread. I'm not though...so it's your lucky day.[/quote]

If you were nark, you've have some type of coherency.

[Mister D]

Do I really have to trawl through every post on this board and others showing the likes of Libhater etc saying exactly that? Do I?

Wow so because "Libhater" (some guy on an obscure message board) may share a view(s) described in the OP this allows one to make ridiculously broad claims. Gotcha. It remains a straw man. In fact, this is a classic straw man.

[Mr Happy]

I've already explained why its a strawman fallacy. It's really not my problem your comprehension is less to be desired.

BTW, if I was a nark you'd be banned from this thread. I'm not though...so it's your lucky day.TE]

If you were nark, you've have some type of coherency.

I'd put my IQ against yours any day of the week Chrissy...
At least I know how to use the quote function...

[AmazonTania]

Do I really have to trawl through every post on this board and others showing the likes of Libhater etc saying exactly that? Do I?

They're not JUST about what people on the forum say. Any attempt to attract a position to any particular person or group, without referencing them, and then refute that position is a strawman fallacy.

Which is not surprising why you cannot seem to understand the erroneous argument.

[ptif219]

in other words you hate the constitution of the united states.

Show welfare in the constitution. Obama has gutted the welfare reform act the GOP passed and Clinton signed. Obama wants to keep people dependent on government

[Cigar]

Game Set Match; Point Made ... my work here has been completed.

~ Please Proceed Governor

[AmazonTania]

I'd put my IQ against yours any day of the week Chrissy...
At least I know how to use the quote function...

That's great. At least you 'know something' at least.

[Mr Happy]

Wow so because "Libhater" (some guy on an obscure message board) may share a view(s) described in the OP this allows one to make ridiculously broad claims. Gotcha. It remains a straw man. In fact, this is a classic straw man.

Gee, do I have to revisit every anti-Black post where you've made a generalisation without providing any links and just now call them strawmen? Fantastic....

[patrickt]

C'mon Chris Mark II - refute the points one by one and provide sources...

Take your time..
The Dictator is giving orders? Why should she take a bunch of statements that are lies and refute them? That's a liberal game.

[Mr Happy]

That's great. At least you 'know something' at least.

I know that ain't your picture and I know that you are Chris lite....which trust me, isn't a good thing to be, because he's not exactly setting the world on fire with his opinions either...

[Mister D]

Ronnie Raygun was a leftie??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen

Could you elaborate? Perhaps pick one of the "myths" and state specifically what views Reagan had that fit? All this demonstrates is that Reagan believed there is fraud in the welfare system. Anhy sensible person understands that.

BTW, who made these other claims? They are in quotation marks.

[AmazonTania]

Wow so because "Libhater" (some guy on an obscure message board) may share a view(s) described in the OP this allows one to make ridiculously broad claims. Gotcha. It remains a straw man. In fact, this is a classic straw man.

That's actually a different type of intellectual fallacy, but it's not like I'd expect anyone else here to understand.

[Mr Happy]

The Dictator is giving orders? Why should she take a bunch of statements that are lies and refute them?

Ok, now it's your turn. Prove them to be lies. Cigar's posted the piece with links to credible sites. That is all he required to do. All you have to do is either refute the links with your own, or take your time proving that the links are wrong and why. This is Debate 101.

[Mister D]

Gee, do I have to revisit every anti-Black post where you've made a generalisation without providing any links and just now call them strawmen? Fantastic....

I've repeatedly asked that my supposedly racist posts be cited. No one ever ponies up. In any case, they are irrelevant. Stay on topic if you can...

[Mr Happy]

Could you elaborate? Perhaps pick one of the "myths" and state specifically what views Reagan had that fit? All this demonstrates is that Reagan believed there is fraud in the welfare system. Anhy sensible person understands that.

BTW, who made these other claims? They are in quotation marks.

Oh, right so when it's "Anhy (sic) sensible person understands that" in D land, that is fine. If anybody else makes that assertion, it's a strawman. From now on you will be referred to as Mister "Cherrypick" D...

[Mister D]

Ok, now it's your turn. Prove them to be lies. Cigar's posted the piece with links to credible sites. That is all he required to do. All you have to do is either refute the links with your own, or take your time proving that the links are wrong and why. This is Debate 101.

I've already shown how one is totally dishonest, however, it simply doesn't work that way, Happy. You don't post claims and then demand they be disproved.

[jillian]

That's great. At least you 'know something' at least.

it would be nice if you actually knew as much as you claim to.

[Mr Happy]

That's actually a different type of intellectual fallacy, but it's not like I'd expect anyone else here to understand.

You really need to be on the Densa, er Mensa, board. We are obviously far too low in the food chain for your superior intellect to interact with...

[Mr Happy]

I've repeatedly asked that my supposedly racist posts be cited. No one ever ponies up. In any case, they are irrelevant. Stay on topic if you can...

You and Chris Lite changed the subject matter by talking about strawman. In that context I am on topic. Try and keep up.

[AmazonTania]

I know that ain't your picture and I know that you are Chris lite....which trust me, isn't a good thing to be, because he's not exactly setting the world on fire with his opinions either...

If you were as good in your 'deductive reasons' as you were correlating a half decent opposition, you wouldn't be at odds with yourself right now. But go on and believe whatever you'd like.

And nothing against Chris, but he'd probably liked to know what I know.

[Mr Happy]

I've already shown how one is totally dishonest, however, it simply doesn't work that way, Happy. You don't post claims and then demand they be disproved.

What I find more that interesting is that Cigar's OP is huge and discusses quite a lot and makes interesting reading, and all you and CL concentrate on is the one little nugget that has the least relevancy. How about concentrating on the meat and potatoes of the post. You almost started to by mentioning the per capita numbers on welfare...C'mon D, I know you can do better [pats D on the head and gives him a biscuit for encouragement]

[Mister D]

Oh, right so when "Anhy (sic) sensible person understands that" in D land, that is fine. If anybody else makes that assertion, it's a strawman. From now on you will be referred to as Mister "Cherrypick" D...

Have you been reduced to attacking typos? :rollseyes:

Again, if you attribute a view to another person that that person does not actually hold it's a straw man. Is this an article about Libhater? reagan? Who are we discussing?

[Mr Happy]

If you were as good in your 'deductive reasons' as you were correlating a half decent opposition, you wouldn't be at odds with yourself right now. But go on and believe whatever you'd like.

And nothing against Chris, but he'd probably liked to know what I know.

Who wouldn't want to 'liked (sic) to know' what you know? Your intellect is absolutely dazzling me at the moment. It's 11.30pm here and I've had to find my sunnies to keep the glare down...

If you concentrated more on providing even half and argument instead of trying to convince us how intelligent you are, this might turn into a half-decent thread.

[AmazonTania]

it would be nice if you actually knew as much as you claim to.

My background is a M.S. Financial Economics and I hold a Series 3, 4, 6, and 7 license. I do know as much as I claim. Would be nicer if people around knew some sought of basics or fundamentals, but all I ever encounter are talking points and platforms. Maybe I'm asking for too much.

[Mr Happy]

Have you been reduced to attacking typos? :rollseyes:

I thought I was in a pissing contest, so just trying to get a few points under my belt...

[Mister D]

What I find more that interesting is that Cigar's OP is huge and discusses quite a lot and makes interesting reading, and all you and CL concentrate on is the one little nugget that has the least relevancy. How about concentrating on the meat and potatoes of the post. You almost started to by mentioning the per capita numbers on welfare...C'mon D, I know you can do better [pats D on the head and gives him a biscuit for encouragement]

Why does it have the least relevancy? I've already found one dishonest passage which should indicate the tone of the OP. Why should I probe further? Until he can substantiate his claim (i.e. that these views are in any way widespread) why should I bother?

[Mister D]

I thought I was in a pissing contest, so just trying to get a few points under my belt...

You're in a discussion or at least I'm trying to have one. If that's not your thing I'll move on. Just let me know.

[Mr Happy]

My background is a M.S. Financial Economics and I hold a Series 3, 4, 6, and 7 license. I do know as much as I claim. Would be nicer if people around knew some sought of basics or fundamentals, but all I ever encounter are talking points and platforms. Maybe I'm asking for too much.

Then again, some of us don't have any expertise in finance and don't claim to be. Of course you're asking too much. If a physicist came on here bleating about being an expert on quantum physics he or she wouldn't get much joy out of me either. So you have a financial background. Whoop dee fucking doo...

[Mister D]

You and Chris Lite changed the subject matter by talking about strawman. In that context I am on topic. Try and keep up.

Wow...

No, Happy. The article remains a straw man until the claism are substantiated. Who said all things? Who believes this stuff? Please be specific. Libhater? Reagan?

[ptif219]

Any Data to back up your claim?

Or are you just gyrating for show?

Matthew Desmond is a political hack that even Daily KOS has a problem with him.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/01/990532/-An-Ethical-Crisis-in-Liberal-Media

[Mr Happy]

Why does it have the least relevancy? I've already found one dishonest passage which should indicate the tone of the OP. Why should I probe further? Until he can substantiate his claim (i.e. that these views are in any way widespread) why should I bother?

Because you are finding an easy way out of trying to discuss the points that matter. It's like somebody listing 49 points of how to cure world hunger, with the 50th point being that they like vanilla ice cream so you start heading the thread in the direction of ice cream flavours.

Ok, take out the part about "righties think like this". Now, start commenting on the rest of the post. Remember these are links to what most reasonable people would consider credible sites. Now maybe you like turning the conversation to the least pertinent point because these sites are credible but you don't like what they say or disagree with the hard data but can't provide your own, but start rabbiting on about strawman as a deflective device?

It's disingenuous, a cop-out, wimpish and pathetic all rolled into one. And you wonder why some of us think you a troll...

[Mr Happy]

You're in a discussion or at least I'm trying to have one. If that's not your thing I'll move on. Just let me know.

You are not trying to have any discussion. See my last...

[AmazonTania]

Who wouldn't want to 'liked (sic) to know' what you know? Your intellect is absolutely dazzling me at the moment. It's 11.30pm here and I've had to find my sunnies to keep the glare down...

If you concentrated more on providing even half and argument instead of trying to convince us how intelligent you are, this might turn into a half-decent thread.

Again, there is no argument to make. The OP used a straw man fallacy. I do not agree with any one of those myths, and I know of no one who does either. This thread died on arrival and was probably a pitiful attempt to stir some emotions to flame-bait.

[Mr Happy]

Matthew Desmond is a political hack that even Daily KOS has a problem with him.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/01/990532/-An-Ethical-Crisis-in-Liberal-Media

So in the original piece that links to the Cafferty saying that 100 million people are on welfare (follow the link) is not a myth, and that the 2010 HHS report is wrong? Please provide links...

[AmazonTania]

Then again, some of us don't have any expertise in finance and don't claim to be. Of course you're asking too much. If a physicist came on here bleating about being an expert on quantum physics he or she wouldn't get much joy out of me either. So you have a financial background. Whoop dee fucking doo...

My credentials don't matter at all, and they're only brought up when my knowledge is challenged. I don't care who has a background in what. As long as someone can anyone can discuss matters in a coherent matter without being erroneous or creating fallacies.

Then again, Jillian seems to believe statistics from the Federal Reserve Economic Database are made up. That is just an example of what I have to deal with here.

[ptif219]

You are not trying to have any discussion. See my last...

The OP is not credible. I have showed this is a website that even the left says lies and is a bad website

[Mister D]

Because you are finding an easy way out of trying to discuss the points that matter. It's like somebody listing 49 points of how to cure world hunger, with the 50th point being that they like vanilla ice cream so you start heading the thread in the direction of ice cream flavours.

Ok, take out the part about "righties think like this". Now, start commenting on the rest of the post. Remember these are links to what most reasonable people would consider credible sites. Now maybe you like turning the conversation to the least pertinent point because these sites are credible but you don't like what they say or disagree with the hard data but can't provide your own, but start rabbiting on about strawman as a deflective device?

It's disingenuous, a cop-out, wimpish and pathetic all rolled into one. And you wonder why some of us think you a troll...

One of the "points" was shown to be dishonest. I dismiss dishonesty for what it is. You should too. You also keep claiming I focused on the least relevant point yet give no indication of how you determined the relevancy of each supposed myth. Are you going to keep attacking me or would you like to discuss the OP?

[Mister D]

Again, there is no argument to make. The OP used a straw man fallacy. I do not agree with any one of those myths, and I know of no one who does either. This thread died on arrival and was probably a pitiful attempt to stir some emotions to flame-bait.

Nor do I.

[ptif219]

So in the original piece that links to the Cafferty saying that 100 million people are on welfare (follow the link) is not a myth, and that the 2010 HHS report is wrong? Please provide links...

You ignore the fact they have been caught lying and even the left calls them a bad website with no integrity or credibility.

[Cigar]

Then again, some of us don't have any expertise in finance and don't claim to be. Of course you're asking too much. If a physicist came on here bleating about being an expert on quantum physics he or she wouldn't get much joy out of me either. So you have a financial background. Whoop dee fucking doo...


A Series 6 or 7 license in over kill and irrelevant in reading and understanding basic arithmetic, simple statistical analysis and ordinary data mining.

No one selling anything here ... the facts are either there or they are not ...

[Mister D]

You are not trying to have any discussion. See my last...

Sure I am. If you can't be bothered just let me know.

[Mr Happy]

Again, there is no argument to make. The OP used a straw man fallacy. I do not agree with any one of those myths, and I know of no one who does either. This thread died on arrival and was probably a pitiful attempt to stir some emotions to flame-bait.

You obviously didn't read the link because Jack Cafferty absolutely believes there are 100 million Americans on welfare. Unless somebody has hijacked his blog and hacked into the back end, he said it. So there's at least one person who believes. The only truth in the above post is that you might not know anybody who thinks like that (although if you know John Cafferty personally, then that would not be true)...

[ptif219]

A Series 6 or 7 license in over kill and irrelevant in reading and understanding basic arithmetic, simple statistical analysis and ordinary data mining.

No one selling anything here ... the facts are either there or they are not ...


You are selling a website that even daily KOS shows is a bad website

[Mister D]

Ah, so this is an article about John Cafferty? Who is he?

[Mr Happy]

One of the "points" was shown to be dishonest. I dismiss dishonesty for what it is. You should too. You also keep claiming I focused on the least relevant point yet give no indication of how you determined the relevancy of each supposed myth. Are you going to keep attacking me or would you like to discuss the OP?

But you don't want to discuss the OP. You want to discuss what you think is a strawman (it's not btw - I've been on at least six political messageboards in 12 years where some (not all) conservatives have either mentioned most of these 'myths' as fact in part or in whole), without discussing other parts of the post.

[Alyosha]

Both left and right leaning people have "myths" that they hold as truths. You cannot talk about poverty or involuntary taxation to cure it without creating an emotional response in people. I hope no one lies to themselves and believes that they are speaking purely from the brain on this one.

Not all welfare beneficiaries are stereotypes. I know many who are not, and for the sake of those good people who use it temporarily to get where they need to go I don't try to demonize the welfare recipient. After all, they don't make policy and they don't hire the people who administer it.

Our entitlement system is typical of all federal programs. It went out with good intentions and becomes mismanaged because the US is just too damn big.

Poverty, like drug addiction, is a chronic condition. As Jesus said, "The poor you will have with you always". There will always be poor people, but more importantly there will always be poor individuals. You simply cannot treat poverty with a one size fits all approach and expect to make a dent in it.

What should happen is that we get over the current feeling on Church-State, go back to the "Lemon" test of excessive religious influence and turn over money to charities, religious or non religious, and let them sort it out. That way the individual who has a drug addiction that makes him poor, will get help for that, and the person with 5 kids who is poor will get a different sort of help.

[Mr Happy]

You are selling a website that even daily KOS shows is a bad website

Which one? Eight sites are linked in the OP...

[ptif219]

Ah, so this is an article about John Cafferty? Who is he?

A rock singer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cafferty_%26_The_Beaver_Brown_Band

[Mr Happy]

Ah, so this is an article about John Cafferty? Who is he?

Read the whole OP, then we can discuss. If you don't want to, then just say so...

[ptif219]

But you don't want to discuss the OP. You want to discuss what you think is a strawman (it's not btw - I've been on at least six political messageboards in 12 years where some (not all) conservatives have either mentioned most of these 'myths' as fact in part or in whole), without discussing other parts of the post.

The OP that is not credible. Neither the link or cigar are credible

[Mister D]

Read the whole OP, then we can discuss. If you don't want to, then just say so...

The OP lists the supposed "myth" and then "facts". I chose a "myth" and demonstrated the dishonesty of the author of this piece. Why should I go further? Please, if you can redeem this trash go right ahead.

[Mister D]

The OP that is not credible. Neither the link or cigar are credible

That's been demonstrated.

[ptif219]

Which one? Eight sites are linked in the OP...

If they are like the last one they are useless

[Cigar]

The OP that is not credible. Neither the link or cigar are credible

:rollseyes: so pick one ... any one ... http://www.ehow.com/info_8134012_myths-welfare.html


Try shooting back with some FACTS ... instead of squirting denials ... :wanker:

[Mr Happy]

My credentials don't matter at all, and they're only brought up when my knowledge is challenged. I don't care who has a background in what. As long as someone can anyone can discuss matters in a coherent matter without being erroneous or creating fallacies.

Then again, Jillian seems to believe statistics from the Federal Reserve Economic Database are made up. That is just an example of what I have to deal with here.

At yet the OP in this thread has two links to federal websites - one refuting a blog stating exactly what Cigar said it did therefore not a strawman - and you don't want to discuss.

Those in glass houses and all that....

[Mr Happy]

The OP lists the supposed "myth" and then "facts". I chose a "myth" and demonstrated the dishonesty of the author of this piece. Why should I go further? Please, if you can redeem this trash go right ahead.

And I chose a myth and demonstrated that it wasn't dishonest (well unless you think the fed make up stats on the fly, in which case, what can I say)...

[Ravi]

Show welfare in the constitution. Obama has gutted the welfare reform act the GOP passed and Clinton signed. Obama wants to keep people dependent on government
The only "gutting" Obama did was to allow the states more leeway in decision making with their welfare recipient. Talk about posting partisan nonsense, your post was exhibit A.

[Mister D]

And I chose a myth and demonstrated that it wasn't dishonest (well unless you think the fed make up stats on the fly, in which case, what can I say)...

Actually, you haven't. You showed how some guy I never heard of believes in a myth I've also never heard of. But I'll be gracious and say you're right. So we have a dishonest attempt at refuting a myth and an honest one. What does that equal? Hint: a dishonest OP.

[Cigar]

Both left and right leaning people have "myths" that they hold as truths. You cannot talk about poverty or involuntary taxation to cure it without creating an emotional response in people. I hope no one lies to themselves and believes that they are speaking purely from the brain on this one.

Not all welfare beneficiaries are stereotypes. I know many who are not, and for the sake of those good people who use it temporarily to get where they need to go I don't try to demonize the welfare recipient. After all, they don't make policy and they don't hire the people who administer it.

Our entitlement system is typical of all federal programs. It went out with good intentions and becomes mismanaged because the US is just too damn big.

Poverty, like drug addiction, is a chronic condition. As Jesus said, "The poor you will have with you always". There will always be poor people, but more importantly there will always be poor individuals. You simply cannot treat poverty with a one size fits all approach and expect to make a dent in it.

What should happen is that we get over the current feeling on Church-State, go back to the "Lemon" test of excessive religious influence and turn over money to charities, religious or non religious, and let them sort it out. That way the individual who has a drug addiction that makes him poor, will get help for that, and the person with 5 kids who is poor will get a different sort of help.

I'm afraid you're on the wrong Forum ... :grin:

What you wrote makes common sense ... and there's NO Place for Common Sense here when you're talking Welfare Recipients ...

When you say the word Welfare ... it means only ONE thing to your average Republican ... period ... end of story.

[Mr Happy]

Actually, you haven't. You showed how some guy I never heard of believes in a myth I've also never heard of. But I'll be gracious and say you're right. So we have a dishonest attempt at refuting a myth and an honest one. What does that equal? Hint: a dishonest OP.

Hold on a sec. One minute you and your friend are stating it is a strawman because no conservatives have said such myths or believe in them. Then Cigar's piece has a link to conservative pundit Jack Cafferty saying exactly what one of the myths say, which using your own logic, no longer makes it a strawman. So which is it? Anyway, midnight here, and trust me, I need my beauty sleep... in spades...

[patrickt]

The only "gutting" Obama did was to allow the states more leeway in decision making with their welfare recipient. Talk about posting partisan nonsense, your post was exhibit A.

Sorry, Marie, but the OP was exhibit A. Everything else has simply been more partisan nonsense. Exhibit A-1 would be your claim that all Obama did was allow states more "leeway". Technically, that might be correct since what he was offering were illegal "waivers" from the law. Sounds like Obamacare, doesn't it?

The myths in the OP are mostly strawman arguments and the "clarifications" are partisan drivel and lies not worthy of rebuttal.

[Mister D]

Hold on a sec. One minute you and your friend are stating it is a strawman because no conservatives have said such myths or believe in them. Then Cigar's piece has a link to conservative pundit Jack Cafferty saying exactly what one of the myths say, which using your own logic, no longer makes it a strawman. So which is it? Anyway, midnight here, and trust me, I need my beauty sleep... in spades...

Take an hour if you need it, Happy. So this is an article about some guy named Jack Cafferty? Or was it Reagan? Libhater? Who are we talking about? I don't believe any of those "myths" except of course for the one I showed was true.

Secondly, why are you distorting my statements? See bold type. I asked who we were talking about. A conservative pundit? Reagan? Libhater? You attribute these "myths" to tens of millions of people based on...what exactly? Presumably, you also attribute them to the righties on this forum. Again, based on what exactly?

[Cigar]

Hold on a sec. One minute you and your friend are stating it is a strawman because no conservatives have said such myths or believe in them. Then Cigar's piece has a link to conservative pundit Jack Cafferty saying exactly what one of the myths say, which using your own logic, no longer makes it a strawman. So which is it? Anyway, midnight here, and trust me, I need my beauty sleep... in spades...

When they have nothing to attack the message ... then attack the messenger ...

... it's clearly outlined in the Re-Tug Hand-Job-Book :grin:

[Chris]

in other words, you have nothing to say.



In other words, the myths are BS to begin with.

[Chris]

Any Data to back up your claim?

Or are you just gyrating for show?



Cigar, do you have any data to back up the claim anyone on the right has ever argued the myths? I've never seen it.

[nic34]

Matthew Desmond is a political hack that even Daily KOS has a problem with him.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/01/990532/-An-Ethical-Crisis-in-Liberal-Media

cigar's OP was authored by Wes Williams (http://www.addictinginfo.org/author/mrsaxde/) .....

[Cigar]

Cigar, do you have any data to back up the claim anyone on the right has ever argued the myths? I've never seen it.

YouTube is full of examples ... , look at the last GOP candidate town halls, debates and whatever ... by all means, help yourself to the all you can eat buffets.

[Chris]

Ok, now it's your turn. Prove them to be lies. Cigar's posted the piece with links to credible sites. That is all he required to do. All you have to do is either refute the links with your own, or take your time proving that the links are wrong and why. This is Debate 101.



Shifting the burden of proof, typical. It's up to cigar to support the myths, he claimed them. --I doubt that will happen as that would require discussion of the topic.

[AmazonTania]

You obviously didn't read the link because Jack Cafferty absolutely believes there are 100 million Americans on welfare. Unless somebody has hijacked his blog and hacked into the back end, he said it. So there's at least one person who believes. The only truth in the above post is that you might not know anybody who thinks like that (although if you know John Cafferty personally, then that would not be true)...

Where is the blog?

[AmazonTania]

YouTube is full of examples ... , look at the last GOP candidate town halls, debates and whatever ... by all means, help yourself to the all you can eat buffets.

The burden of proof doesn't fall on anyone else but you, and the author making the accusation.

[Chris]

If you were as good in your 'deductive reasons' as you were correlating a half decent opposition, you wouldn't be at odds with yourself right now. But go on and believe whatever you'd like.

And nothing against Chris, but he'd probably liked to know what I know.



Agreed.

[Mainecoons]

A piece with a title like "nine myths exploded" probably isn't going to present a balanced viewpoint. When I see semantics like that in a title, it puts my "skeptic" brain cells in high gear.

Just sayin. . .

Nevertheless, the reality of welfare does not fit the mythology in a lot of cases. That doesn't change the fact that it is rife with abuse and over generous when you add it all up. The problem is that there are so many agencies and groups doing handouts, none of them know what the other is doing.

You still come back to the basic problem--decades of government war on the private sector via regulation and taxation and ridiculously one-sided trade policies, plus allowing largely open borders, has simply reduced the private sector to the point where it can't begin to employ everyone who wants to work. When you see a million people applying for 70,000 largely crap jobs at McDonalds, that should be obvious.



My email buddy who I quote from time to time here swears up and down that without the welfare system, the country would have blown up in rioting by now, simply because all those unemployed and unemployable (most of the underclass) people would have taken to the streets in anger and desperation.

I think he has a good point about that.

[AmazonTania]

At yet the OP in this thread has two links to federal websites - one refuting a blog stating exactly what Cigar said it did therefore not a strawman - and you don't want to discuss.

Those in glass houses and all that....

Only one post was in reference to a blog, not the vast majority of it.

Until those myths are referenced to something or someone, it's a straw man. Wise up and learn how this works.

[ptif219]

:rollseyes: so pick one ... any one ... http://www.ehow.com/info_8134012_myths-welfare.html


Try shooting back with some FACTS ... instead of squirting denials ... :wanker:

I did even Daily KOS says this site gives liberals a bad name

[Chris]

So in the original piece that links to the Cafferty saying that 100 million people are on welfare (follow the link) is not a myth, and that the 2010 HHS report is wrong? Please provide links...

Cafferty is liberal. I can understand him perpetuating these myths. It disguises the real welfare problem.

[Cigar]

The burden of proof doesn't fall on anyone else but you, and the author making the accusation.


Bull-Shit ... I have no problem with your choice to live in a world of denial ... it's no reflection on me nor is it any burden on me.

[ptif219]

The only "gutting" Obama did was to allow the states more leeway in decision making with their welfare recipient. Talk about posting partisan nonsense, your post was exhibit A.

False explanation. He stopped the work program

[Cigar]

I did even Daily KOS says this site gives liberals a bad name



Are you immune to arguing the Myths ... Point by Point ... Myth by Myth? :laugh:

[Cigar]

False explanation. He stopped the work program

Bull Shit ... Supply the FACT that President Obama signed a LAW stopping the work program.

[ptif219]

Hold on a sec. One minute you and your friend are stating it is a strawman because no conservatives have said such myths or believe in them. Then Cigar's piece has a link to conservative pundit Jack Cafferty saying exactly what one of the myths say, which using your own logic, no longer makes it a strawman. So which is it? Anyway, midnight here, and trust me, I need my beauty sleep... in spades...

CNN is now conservative?

[AmazonTania]

Bull-Shit ... I have no problem with your choice to live in a world of denial ... it's no reflection on me nor is it any burden on me.

If you make a claim, you must back it up. Anything else is fallacious reasoning.

Trust me, I'd love to accept what you say as factual, but your particular knowledge leaves much room for doubt.

[Chris]

Skipping over what is probably only more of the same.

To me the question is why liberal progressives here engage in faux rage over myths about social welfare that they seem hard pressed to show the right arguing. Happy asked about Cafferty, Cafferty's a liberal. So why would Cafferty, and liberals here, wan't to perpetuate this myth?

I think the answer lies in the type of welfare they sweep under the rug of social welfare, namely corporate welfare. The middle class is disappearing not because of redistribution of wealth to the poor but because of redistribution of wealth to the rich in the form of crony capitalistic corporate welfare. Hell, any social welfare is immediately spent on goods and services corporations sell anyhow.

Bush did it, Obama's doing more of it.

[ptif219]

cigar's OP was authored by Wes Williams (http://www.addictinginfo.org/author/mrsaxde/) .....

I have shown that blog is bad even the Daily KOS has an article saying AddictingInfo.Org is giving liberals a bad name

[AmazonTania]

Perhaps this Cafferty individual is trying to say that 100 million Americans receipt some sort of Government assistance. It would make much more sense. Clearly not that many receive Welfare. Less than 4% of Americans receive welfare.

[ptif219]

YouTube is full of examples ... , look at the last GOP candidate town halls, debates and whatever ... by all means, help yourself to the all you can eat buffets.

You claim you show it

[ptif219]

Where is the blog?

It is CNN I did not know they are conservative

[AmazonTania]

Bull Shit ... Supply the FACT that President Obama signed a LAW stopping the work program.

Now we're engaging in Special Pleading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

This thread has pretty much turned into a train-wreck...

[ptif219]

Are you immune to arguing the Myths ... Point by Point ... Myth by Myth? :laugh:

Why argue about a lie

[Cigar]

If you make a claim, you must back it up. Anything else is fallacious reasoning.

Trust me, I'd love to accept what you say as factual, but your particular knowledge leaves much room for doubt.



Look here Ms. Hot Pants ... the subject is about the 9 Myths ... care to debunk them or not? :wink:

[Cigar]

Why argue about a lie

Got it ... so you're not.

No problem ... didn't expect you to.

[Chris]

Now we're engaging in Special Pleading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

This thread has pretty much turned into a train-wreck...

http://i.snag.gy/Ne7i9.jpg

It was a troll to begin with.

[ptif219]

Bull Shit ... Supply the FACT that President Obama signed a LAW stopping the work program.

Try This

http://www.politicspa.com/rnc-obama-ending-welfare-to-work-watch-video/40149/

[AmazonTania]

Look here Ms. Hot Pants ... the subject is about the 9 Myths ... care to debunk them or not? :wink:

No. I do not entertain fallacies. You've claimed that there were people who believe these myths. Where is the proof of this?

[ptif219]

Got it ... so you're not.

No problem ... didn't expect you to.

I have shown even liberals consider it a bad site that it gives liberals a bad name.

[Mainecoons]

http://i.snag.gy/Ne7i9.jpg

It was a troll to begin with.

Exactly. As are all Cigar's threads.

[Cigar]

I have shown even liberals consider it a bad site that it gives liberals a bad name.

What is it with you constantly diverting about a site you'd never consider a source anyway ...

The Myths Grass-Hopper ... The Myths ... Focus ... Grass-Hopper ... Focus

[Cigar]

No. I do not entertain fallacies. You've claimed that there were people who believe these myths. Where is the proof of this?

Wow you guys are experts at diversionary statics :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Let me guess ... you want their Names, Ranks and Serial Numbers ... correct?

How about the Myths ... care to address it?

[Mister D]

Myth: “Most welfare recipients are minorities and illegal immigrants.”



It's always amazing when someone cites data proving themselves wrong. As per the link provided, non-Hispanic whites comprised 31.8% of total recipients in 2010, blacks comprised 31.9%, and Hispanics 30%. That means that blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately represented and grossly so. The former by almost 250%.

I've already refuted one. The blatant dishonesty of the author with regard to this "myth" should be an indication of his overall character.

[Mister D]

Granmted, no one is obligated to prove the claims of the author wrong. He must substantiate them. He doesn't.

[nic34]

Try This

http://www.politicspa.com/rnc-obama-ending-welfare-to-work-watch-video/40149/

One more time...... Try this:

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/

[Cigar]

One more time...... Try this:

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/

Wait for it ... here it comes ... attack Fact-Check coming right up ...

[ptif219]

What is it with you constantly diverting about a site you'd never consider a source anyway ...

The Myths Grass-Hopper ... The Myths ... Focus ... Grass-Hopper ... Focus

A myth is not a myth if it is made up BS by the left. I have never seen a conservative say any of this stuff. Show proof this said often by conservatives. Otherwise it is just made up liberal propaganda.

[AmazonTania]

Wow you guys are experts at diversionary statics :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Let me guess ... you want their Names, Ranks and Serial Numbers ... correct?

What diversionary tactics are we employing? Your title suggest that a particular group of people believe these myths.

Who are these people?


How about the Myths ... care to address it?

What is to address? They're myths put into context of a straw man...

[ptif219]

One more time...... Try this:

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/

Obama openr
ed the door for no work program. He stopped the law that made the program a requirement so yes he gutted the work program. You can use liberal sites that try to justify it but Obama did away with Clinton's welfare reform

[ptif219]

Wait for it ... here it comes ... attack Fact-Check coming right up ...

We all know fact check is run by liberal democrats

[Cigar]

What diversionary tactics are we employing? Your title suggest that a particular group of people believe these myths.

Who are these people?



What is to address? They're myths put into context of a straw man...

Look this isn't long division ... so stop trying to make it that.

If no one wants to discuss The Myths, that fine with me, because no one from the right ever does.

They just want to deny it, and what's new ...

I just wanted to point that out and get you guys to confirm it in writing.

Thanks for your participation.

[AmazonTania]

Look this isn't long division ... so stop trying to make it that.

I can gather far greater minds for the purpose of using logic.

You must know this...


If no one wants to discuss The Myths, that fine with me, because no one from the right ever does.

No one wants to discuss the myths because, well, they're myths. Trying to attach these myths on to your opposition is something only political hacks do.



They just want to deny it, and what's new ...

I just wanted to point that out and get you guys to confirm it in writing.

Wrong. You just want someone to argue with you and defend erroneous claims because it makes you feel better. If that's how you obtain your jollies, that's great, but some of us have better energies to waste our efforts on than trying to one-up some other tosser online.

Grow up...

[Chris]

Amazon, meet Cigar.

[nic34]

We all know fact check is run by liberal democrats

Sure we do.... guess you put this one to rest....:harrr:

[Cigar]

I can gather far greater minds for the purpose of using logic.

You must know this...



No one wants to discuss the myths because, well, they're myths. Trying to attach these myths on to your opposition is something only political hacks do.




Wrong. You just want someone to argue with you and defend erroneous claims because it makes you feel better. If that's how you obtain your jollies, that's great, but some of us have better energies to waste our efforts on than trying to one-up some other tosser online.

Grow up...


Thank you ... according to you they are Myths and thus don't rate discussion ... got it. :rollseyes:


... and no that's not how I obtain my jollies ... but we can always discuss that in anther thread if you like. :wink:

[Cigar]

Amazon, meet Cigar.

Amazon ... anytime you want to meet ... I'm available.

Amazon Net Worth, north of 107 Billion

[nic34]

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

“The animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals, they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends.” Rush Limbaugh

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/
(http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/)
strawman busted.....

[Mister D]

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

“The animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals, they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends.” Rush Limbaugh

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/
(http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/)
strawman busted.....

It's an analogy, nic. And, no, I don't listen or care about Rush Limbaugh.

Do you disagree with Limbaugh? If so, why? Bill Clinton agreed with him which is why he enacted Welfare Reform in the 1990s.

[Cigar]

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

“The animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals, they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends.” Rush Limbaugh

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/
(http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/)
strawman busted.....

... and guess what ... I have a Dog ... and I sure as hell wouldn't want to starve him ... for a few reasons ...

1 - it's inhumane :angry:
2 - he will find a way to eat ... by any means necessary :wink:

[Cigar]

It's an analogy, nic. And, no, I don't listen or care about Rush Limbaugh.

Do you disagree with Limbaugh? If so, why? Bill Clinton agreed with him which is why he enacted Welfare Reform in the 1990s.

Please supply Bill Clinton's quote ...

[Agravan]

Amazon ... anytime you want to meet ... I'm available.

Amazon Net Worth, north of 107 Billion

Ok, so now YOU are a big man, ehh?
This is your solution to everything, is it not, Cigar?
Threaten anyone that disagrees with you? Do you really expect anyone to fly to Chicago just to kick your ass?
you made a big show about defending jillian when you, for some stupid reason, thought I threatened her, but now you're threatening Amazon? Who's the f'ing coward now, bigshot? be careful, though, AmazonTania might just beat your punk ass and leave you cryin' like a little girl.

[Agravan]

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

“The animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals, they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends.” Rush Limbaugh

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/
(http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/)
strawman busted.....
So Rush is all Republicans?
Like Bill Mahr is all Democrats, right?

[nic34]

It's an analogy, nic. And, no, I don't listen or care about Rush Limbaugh.

Do you disagree with Limbaugh? If so, why? Bill Clinton agreed with him which is why he enacted Welfare Reform in the 1990s.

This just serves to show that YES, we hear the right say those BS myths all the time.... so why all the denial in this thread..... the OP hit a great big NERVE did it!?

[Mister D]

So Rush is all Republicans?
Like Bill Mahr is all Democrats, right?

Well, that does seem to be the logic of the OP. If someone said it then it applies to everyone who shares any sort of political idea or ideal with them.

[Ravi]

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

“The animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals, they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends.” Rush Limbaugh

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/
(http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/)
strawman busted.....

And:

These are people who pay no income tax...[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. Mitten Romney

[Agravan]

And:

These are people who pay no income tax...[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. Mitten Romney
Please show where he was mistaken.

[Chris]

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

“The animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals, they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends.” Rush Limbaugh

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/
(http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/)
strawman busted.....


It's an analogy, nic. And, no, I don't listen or care about Rush Limbaugh.

Do you disagree with Limbaugh? If so, why? Bill Clinton agreed with him which is why he enacted Welfare Reform in the 1990s.


Good one, nic, agree with D, would call the analogy hyperbole. Were he being literal I would disagree with him. Like D, I don't listen or care about Rush, he's an entertainer whom I don't find funny or entertaining.

[Mister D]

This just serves to show that YES, we hear the right say those BS myths all the time.... so why all the denial in this thread..... the OP hit a great big NERVE did it!?

Well, it is obvious that you listen to Limbaugh and watch Foxs News quite often. You aren't hearing these "myths" here, howevre, that's for sure. You walked right into that, nic. :smiley:

Not really, nic. The only people getting excited are the progressives. I've already demonstrated the level of honesty we're dealing with in the OP. Anyway, you didn't answer my question.

[Cigar]

Ok, so now YOU are a big man, ehh?
This is your solution to everything, is it not, Cigar?
Threaten anyone that disagrees with you? Do you really expect anyone to fly to Chicago just to kick your ass?
you made a big show about defending jillian when you, for some stupid reason, thought I threatened her, but now you're threatening Amazon? Who's the f'ing coward now, bigshot? be careful, though, @AmazonTania (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=852) might just beat your punk ass and leave you cryin' like a little girl.

WTF are you talking about ...

Look ... I don't make threats ... I make predictions come true.

... and yes ... I'd Love to do business with Amazon ... are you on Flintstones Vivariums for this Chemical Imbalance ?

[Cigar]

So Rush is all Republicans?
Like Bill Mahr is all Democrats, right?

Or All and Jessie ... yada yada yada ... looks like you're getting the point finally. :rollseyes:

[Chris]

This just serves to show that YES, we hear the right say those BS myths all the time.... so why all the denial in this thread..... the OP hit a great big NERVE did it!?



Could it be that none on the right here listen to Rush? I never heard what you found. Could it be that one person making that hyperbolic analogy is not representative of many on the right? That's not very logical.

[nic34]

You aren't hearing these "myths" here, howevre, that's for sure. You walked right into that, nic.

Who ever said the OP was about what anyone HERE says?

How's that egg in yer face there, champ? :laugh:

[Cigar]

And:

These are people who pay no income tax...[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. Mitten Romney

Or Rick Santorum's Mythical "Bla-People" :laugh:

[nic34]

Could it be that none on the right here listen to Rush? I never heard what you found. Could it be that one person making that hyperbolic analogy is not representative of many on the right? That's not very logical.

See^^^^^

[Agravan]

WTF are you talking about ...

Look ... I don't make threats ... I make predictions come true.

... and yes ... I'd Love to do business with Amazon ... are you on Flintstones Vivariums for this Chemical Imbalance ?

More tuff talk. Color me un-impressed.
Besides, you were not talking to her about business, you made a threat, as you usually do. Empty threat, but threat nonetheless.

[Mister D]

Who ever said the OP was about what anyone HERE says?

How's that egg in yer face there, champ? :laugh:

Nic please stop trying to insult me and talk trash. You're not good at it.

So who is it about? Some blogger? Rush Limbaugh? Who? It's not about "the right" that's for sure.

[Mainecoons]

Nicky boy, I really think you should stop listening to Rush Limbaugh. It is making you even nuttier.

You don't need to do that. It is like hauling coal to a coal mine. Capische, genius?

[Ravi]

Ok, so now YOU are a big man, ehh?
This is your solution to everything, is it not, Cigar?
Threaten anyone that disagrees with you? Do you really expect anyone to fly to Chicago just to kick your ass?
you made a big show about defending jillian when you, for some stupid reason, thought I threatened her, but now you're threatening Amazon? Who's the f'ing coward now, bigshot? be careful, though, @AmazonTania (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=852) might just beat your punk ass and leave you cryin' like a little girl.

:rolleyes: That wasn't a threat.

[AmazonTania]

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

“The animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals, they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends.” Rush Limbaugh

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/
(http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/)
strawman busted.....

How are those two statements similar?

Address what the person is saying, not what you would like for the person to say.

[Chris]

Or Rick Santorum's Mythical "Bla-People" :laugh:


See^^^^^


Santorum is a statist. So?

[Cigar]

Could it be that none on the right here listen to Rush? I never heard what you found. Could it be that one person making that hyperbolic analogy is not representative of many on the right? That's not very logical.

It's hilarious to seeing you guys distancing yourselves from Rush-bo one day ... and quoting him the next ... :laugh:

[Mainecoons]

Could you cite a post where one of us has quoted Rush?

Good luck.

:grin:

[Cigar]

How are those two statements similar?

Address what the person is saying, not what you would like for the person to say.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/fox_of_foodstamps_130813a-615x345.jpg

August 12th 2013 ................... Quote

Person Saying = Bill O'Reilly

“But this guy is a parasite. And my contention is that the Obama administration is encouraging parasites to come out and, you know, take as much as they can with no remorse. And this is how a country declines. This is how we become a weak nation.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/13/oreilly-food-stamps-are-encouraging-parasites-to-take-as-much-as-they-want/

NEXT !

[nic34]

Nicky boy, I really think you should stop listening to Rush Limbaugh. It is making you even nuttier.

You don't need to do that. It is like hauling coal to a coal mine. Capische, genius?

Oh, here's copy-kat right on time pouncing on his twin's fresh poo.....

[AmazonTania]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/fox_of_foodstamps_130813a-615x345.jpg

August 12th 2013 ................... Quote

Person Saying = Bill O'Reilly

“But this guy is a parasite. And my contention is that the Obama administration is encouraging parasites to come out and, you know, take as much as they can with no remorse. And this is how a country declines. This is how we become a weak nation.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/13/oreilly-food-stamps-are-encouraging-parasites-to-take-as-much-as-they-want/

NEXT !

Another post provide by a person who cannot read very well.

How is referring to a person as a parasite the same as saying they are lazy and just stay home to collect welfare? Logic isn't your greatest attribute, but you must know that these statements are not dynamically the same...

[Cigar]

Another post provide by a person who cannot read very well.

How is referring to a person as a parasite the same as saying they are lazy and just stay home to collect welfare? Logic isn't your greatest attribute, but you must know that these statements are not dynamically the same...

:roflmao::roflmao: I give that much ... you're consistent and persistent

[Mainecoons]

Oh, here's copy-kat right on time pouncing on his twin's fresh poo.....

See what I mean about Nic getting nuttier?

:grin:

[nic34]

Nic please stop trying to insult me and talk trash. You're not good at it.

So who is it about? Some blogger? Rush Limbaugh? Who? It's not about "the right" that's for sure.

You're right, I'll just let you go on and on and let you show us what a pompous ass you can be all by yourself......

I'd say the denial here is amazing.... but then it's what was expected.

[Mainecoons]

Could you cite a post where one of us has quoted Rush?

Good luck.

:grin:

Once again, for Cigar.

[Cigar]

You just gotta Love'em ... :smiley_ROFLMAO:

They're going down in flames and they're stopping to fill-up for Gas


http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/2013/130923-gop-congressman-says-children-elderly-disabled-should-work-if-they-want-to-eat.jpg

North Dakota congressman, Rep. Kevin Cramer took to Facebook to defend his vote to kick veterans, the elderly and children off of food assistance. His response was shocking. He replied by quoting the Bible,’If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.’

Here is a constituent’s post on Rep. Cramer’s Facebook wall followed by the Republican congressman’s reply:

-

Full post here: http://www.politicususa.com/2013/09/21/republican-congressman-tells-hungry-kids-work-eat.html


That's right folks ... he's actually quoted The Bible ... no really it's true. :smiley_ROFLMAO:

[Mainecoons]

Could you cite a post where one of us has quoted Rush?

Good luck.

:grin:

And one more time for Cigar. . . .

:rofl:

[Cigar]

SNAP (Food Stamps): Facts, Myths and Realities
http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/public-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/snap-myths-realities.aspx#

[Chris]

It's hilarious to seeing you guys distancing yourselves from Rush-bo one day ... and quoting him the next ... :laugh:


It's hilarious you making up that straw man.

[Cigar]

And one more time for Cigar. . . .

:rofl:

We all know how far you guys head is up Rush's ass ... :grin:

[Chris]

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

“The animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals, they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends.” Rush Limbaugh

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/
(http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/)
strawman busted.....



Nic quoted Rush. I thought nic was on the left, not the right. Could've sworn.

[AmazonTania]

:roflmao::roflmao: I give that much ... you're consistent and persistent

So because someone is a "parasite" this equates to this someone being lazy and staying home all day...

Interesting logic (no... no it isn't)

[Cigar]

So because someone is a "parasite" this equates to this someone being lazy and staying home all day...

Interesting logic (no... no it isn't)

Yea ... only a idiot racist ass-hole would think that, but we still have them.

[Mainecoons]

We all know how far you guys head is up Rush's ass ... :grin:

There's your answer, folks. The usual Cigar no answer.

:rofl:

[AmazonTania]

Yea ... only a idiot racist ass-hole would think that, but we still have them.

You're the one perpetuating this myth by claiming the myth is advocated by a particular group of people.

[Chris]

Yea ... only a idiot racist ass-hole would think that, but we still have them.



Let's say the myth about the myth is true, what makes it racist?




Welfare Demographics



Percent of recipients who are white
38.8 %


Percent of recipients who are black
39.8 %


Percent of recipients who are Hispanic
15.7 %


Percent of recipients who are Asian
2.4 %


Percent of recipients who are Other
3.3 %



@ http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

[Mister D]

Even the OP shows us that's true. blacks are vastly overrepresented.


Myth: “Most welfare recipients are minorities and illegal immigrants.”



It's always amazing when someone cites data proving themselves wrong. As per the link provided, non-Hispanic whites comprised 31.8% of total recipients in 2010, blacks comprised 31.9%, and Hispanics 30%. That means that blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately represented and grossly so. The former by almost 250%.

When the facts are "racist"...:rollseyes:

[Mr Happy]

Take an hour if you need it, Happy. So this is an article about some guy named Jack Cafferty? Or was it Reagan? Libhater? Who are we talking about? I don't believe any of those "myths" except of course for the one I showed was true.

Secondly, why are you distorting my statements? See bold type. I asked who we were talking about. A conservative pundit? Reagan? Libhater? You attribute these "myths" to tens of millions of people based on...what exactly? Presumably, you also attribute them to the righties on this forum. Again, based on what exactly?

Please, if you can't be bothered reading the article just say so. Your replies reek of somebody who hasn't. I'll be buggered if I'm doing your homework for you. You've made accusations and all I'm trying to do is simplify the whole thing for you. You need to meet me half way by at least reading the OP otherwise this is pointless. Your Forrest Gump act is getting tiresome...

[Mr Happy]

Shifting the burden of proof, typical. It's up to cigar to support the myths, he claimed them. --I doubt that will happen as that would require discussion of the topic.

You really need to catch up to what is being said before opening your trap...

[Mr Happy]

Where is the blog?

It's in the link if you bothered looking. So it appears you and D haven't even read the piece....typical.

[Mr Happy]

Only one post was in reference to a blog, not the vast majority of it.

Until those myths are referenced to something or someone, it's a straw man. Wise up and learn how this works.

Oh, so now there are caveats attached? Sorry sister I don't dance to anybody's tune. You started out by saying 'none', now there is 'one'....

You couldn't make this shit up...

[Mr Happy]

Cafferty is liberal. I can understand him perpetuating these myths. It disguises the real welfare problem.

Is he? The guy who said ""It's a red-letter day here in America. Air America, that communist radio network, starts broadcasting in a little while." is a liberal? Interesting take. Maybe you should do some in-depth study on the guy instead of assuming because he used to appear on CNN that he is a liberal...

Actually, reading his bio he comes across as more of a centrist...

[Mr Happy]

Perhaps this Cafferty individual is trying to say that 100 million Americans receipt some sort of Government assistance. It would make much more sense. Clearly not that many receive Welfare. Less than 4% of Americans receive welfare.

It would help if you actually read the link (http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/09/where-is-the-u-s-headed-if-more-than-100-million-people-get-welfare-2/)ALREADY provided. No, he said welfare...

[Libhater]

Is he? The guy who said ""It's a red-letter day here in America. Air America, that communist radio network, starts broadcasting in a little while." is a liberal? Interesting take. Maybe you should do some in-depth study on the guy instead of assuming because he used to appear on CNN that he is a liberal...

Actually, reading his bio he comes across as more of a centrist...

Cafferty a centrist? LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look, he's on CNN (Clinton News Network) for crying out loud.

[Mr Happy]

You claim you show it

Already has...

[Mr Happy]

It is CNN I did not know they are conservative

What, no cons appear on CNN? Really?

[Mainecoons]

Every now and then, a token.

:grin:

[Chris]

You really need to catch up to what is being said before opening your trap...

IOW, you have no evidence.

[Chris]

Is he? The guy who said ""It's a red-letter day here in America. Air America, that communist radio network, starts broadcasting in a little while." is a liberal? Interesting take. Maybe you should do some in-depth study on the guy instead of assuming because he used to appear on CNN that he is a liberal...

Actually, reading his bio he comes across as more of a centrist...



Uh, yes, liberal. I remember listening to him a long tome ago. His recognizing Air America as Air Communism doesn't make him a conservative. Coming from a progressive like you, centrist doesn't mean much, sorry.

[Mr Happy]

Cafferty a centrist? LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look, he's on CNN (Clinton News Network) for crying out loud.

And Colmes appeared on Fox? As did Susteren...And?

[Mr Happy]

IOW, you have no evidence.

No, the evidence was supplied in subsequent posts that you hadn't read...

[Mr Happy]

Uh, yes, liberal. I remember listening to him a long tome ago. His recognizing Air America as Air Communism doesn't make him a conservative. Coming from a progressive like you, centrist doesn't mean much, sorry.

Well he is equally scathing of both repubs and dems. He doesn't appear to think much of Pelosi at all.

Coming from a neocon like you, your opinion of me never has, and never will, mean anything...

[Chris]

And Colmes appeared on Fox? As did Susteren...And?

Colmes? Flaming liberal. But they needed a flamer to make closet liberal Hannity look conservative.

[Chris]

Well he is equally scathing of both repubs and dems. He doesn't appear to think much of Pelosi at all.

Coming from a neocon like you, your opinion of me never has, and never will, mean anything...

Libertarian, the opposite of neocon, no need to make things up.

Cafferty is liberal.

We can trade opinions on these guys all day long, but that just says who we are, what our perspectives are. It's all kind of meaningless. What you and cigar and other fellow travelers need do is establish that these myths are common conservative positions. One or two citations go to exception that prove the rule conservatives don't tend to say those things.

[Mainecoons]

Colmes? Flaming liberal. But they needed a flamer to make closet liberal Hannity look conservative.

Naw, Hannity is all neo-con all the time, statist to the core.

[Mr Happy]

Colmes? Flaming liberal. But they needed a flamer to make closet liberal Hannity look conservative.

Don't disagree. Just showing how pathetic ptif219 and libhater's argument is. Not hard to do. Like shelling peas...like most of this thread.

[Chris]

Naw, Hannity is all neo-con all the time, statist to the core.

Yes, big government at home and abroad.

Neocons are just liberals mugged by reality. That was Irvin Kristol, grandfather of the neocon movement who said that. He too was a liberal, ex-Trotskyite.

[Mr Happy]

Libertarian, the opposite of neocon, no need to make things up.

Cafferty is liberal.

We can trade opinions on these guys all day long, but that just says who we are, what our perspectives are. It's all kind of meaningless. What you and cigar and other fellow travelers need do is establish that these myths are common conservative positions. One or two citations go to exception that prove the rule conservatives don't tend to say those things.

Go read the OP. He never said they were common.

That aside, I have heard these things at one time or another many times - on tv, on messageboards - not many liberals are saying them. Is it the normal conservative mindset? Dunno, but I haven't interviewed every single conservative, and I get the impression that that is the type of burden of proof you guys are after. Ain't gonna happen

[Chris]

Don't disagree. Just showing how pathetic ptif219 and libhater's argument is. Not hard to do. Like shelling peas...like most of this thread.



Except you're really not doing anything you think you are. You're engaging in shouting matches in which everyone goes away thinking just like you. Oh, wow, that last post, what a zinger! Pow! Bam!! Boom!!!

Where's the discussion?

http://i.snag.gy/ECJpt.jpg

[Mister D]

Please, if you can't be bothered reading the article just say so. Your replies reek of somebody who hasn't. I'll be buggered if I'm doing your homework for you. You've made accusations and all I'm trying to do is simplify the whole thing for you. You need to meet me half way by at least reading the OP otherwise this is pointless. Your Forrest Gump act is getting tiresome...

There will be no talk of buggery, thank you. Anyway, I've already proved the OP wrong and dishonest. Your move as they say.

[Chris]

Go read the OP. He never said they were common.

That aside, I have heard these things at one time or another many times - on tv, on messageboards - not many liberals are saying them. Is it the normal conservative mindset? Dunno, but I haven't interviewed every single conservative, and I get the impression that that is the type of burden of proof you guys are after. Ain't gonna happen



I'm sure you've heard them 1000s of time from fellow liberals.



The OP address "the Right"--that's a universal claim.

The OP is also a well-poisoning troll, it's admitted: "Now here comes the most entertaining part ... The Deniers and Racist Haters ... sit back and Marvell at them"

[zelmo1234]

I'd put my IQ against yours any day of the week Chrissy...
At least I know how to use the quote function...

Well it is in my nature to point out that she has reduced you to calling her names.

And in an IQ test my money would be on her, Socialist usually are not that smart because they need the government to tell them what to do and how to act!

[zelmo1234]

Ok, now it's your turn. Prove them to be lies. Cigar's posted the piece with links to credible sites. That is all he required to do. All you have to do is either refute the links with your own, or take your time proving that the links are wrong and why. This is Debate 101.

Already did that in an earlier post, they don't need to do it again W.D.

[Mr Happy]

There will be no talk of buggery, thank you. Anyway, I've already proved the OP wrong and dishonest. Your move as they say.

And I proved you cherry picked. Your move...

[Mr Happy]

Except you're really not doing anything you think you are. You're engaging in shouting matches in which everyone goes away thinking just like you. Oh, wow, that last post, what a zinger! Pow! Bam!! Boom!!!

Where's the discussion?

http://i.snag.gy/ECJpt.jpg

You really need go to a University messageboard. You have this Utopian mindset of what a board should be. Go start one with your rules.

[Mr Happy]

Well it is in my nature to point out that she has reduced you to calling her names.

And in an IQ test my money would be on her, Socialist usually are not that smart because they need the government to tell them what to do and how to act!

1) I'm not a socialist.
2) At the risk of sounding like a five-year-old. She/he started it.

[Mainecoons]

Chris is a he.

:grin:

[zelmo1234]

I thought I was in a pissing contest, so just trying to get a few points under my belt...

Better not be as I am quite sure you would stand facing the wind?

[Mister D]

And I proved you cherry picked. Your move...

What difference does it make? The OP was wrong. Case closed. Your move.

[zelmo1234]

False explanation. He stopped the work program

Actually he allowed the states to stop the work programs, because it was too hard

[zelmo1234]

Look here Ms. Hot Pants ... the subject is about the 9 Myths ... care to debunk them or not? :wink:

Cigar, you dod not prove that any of the myths are wrong, I actually posted on that show 2 of them to be true.

I can say that the earth is the center of the universe, would anyone bother to argue such as stupid statement?

[nic34]

Yes, big government at home and abroad.

Neocons are just liberals mugged by reality.

And Libertarians are just republicans that want to get laid and smoke dope......

[ptif219]

Sure we do.... guess you put this one to rest....:harrr:

Look at the guy who began it came fron the ANNENBERG Public Policy Center

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2104053/posts

[zelmo1234]

Ok, so now YOU are a big man, ehh?
This is your solution to everything, is it not, Cigar?
Threaten anyone that disagrees with you? Do you really expect anyone to fly to Chicago just to kick your ass?
you made a big show about defending jillian when you, for some stupid reason, thought I threatened her, but now you're threatening Amazon? Who's the f'ing coward now, bigshot? be careful, though, @AmazonTania (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=852) might just beat your punk ass and leave you cryin' like a little girl.

Why does it not surprise me that cigar would want to fight a lady? You know he is so big and strong!!!

[Chris]

You really need go to a University messageboard. You have this Utopian mindset of what a board should be. Go start one with your rules.

You're the one trying to impose the rule that says Happy knows everything and wins every argument. Talk about Utopias!

[zelmo1234]

And:

These are people who pay no income tax...[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. Mitten Romney

Yor are correct, about 47% of the people as a matter if fact

[Chris]

1) I'm not a socialist.
2) At the risk of sounding like a five-year-old. She/he started it.



You said you were a socialist. Can't take that back now.

Yes, you do.

[Chris]

Chris is a he.

:grin:



Let me check... :-P

[Chris]

And Libertarians are just republicans that want to get laid and smoke dope......



I'll buy that. But while you got lower case r republican right you got lower case l libertarian wrong. As a libertarian I support the republic set forth in the Constitution. Where's the girls, pass on the dope, you may Bogart it all you want.

[Codename Section]

And Libertarians are just republicans that want to get laid and smoke dope......

And want gays to be able to get married, and want nonviolent people to live outside of prison, and want small farmers to be able to sell raw milk, cheese, and meat without meeting the standards written by agribusiness to shut them down, and want families to make their own medical decisions, and want people to have the right to protect themselves against thugs, and want people to have competing currencies, and want parents to have a choice in education, and want you to have all of your 1st-5th protections against a thug government, a bunch of other stuff that Democrats say they want but never vote for.

Drones anyone?

I'm a libertarian that just wants the right to be left alone. I fought so that other people can have rights I'm losing in my country.

[nic34]

Look ate the guy who began it came fron the ANNENBERG Public Policy Center


a FReeper alerting us to the Annenberg connection.... you certainly are un-baised.....:smiley_ROFLMAO:

[ptif219]

Myth: “People on welfare are lazy and sit at home collecting it while the rest of us work to support them.”

“The animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals, they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends.” Rush Limbaugh

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/
(http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/05/rush-limbaugh-compares-people-on-welfare-to-wild-animals-being-fed-audio/)
strawman busted.....

Welfare destroyed the family

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1672

[jillian]

I'm a libertarian that just wants the right to be left alone. I fought so that other people can have rights I'm losing in my country.

so you're pro choice, right?

[Mr Happy]

Chris is a he.

:grin:

He was talking about Chris's doppleganger....AT..

[Mr Happy]

You're the one trying to impose the rule that says Happy knows everything and wins every argument. Talk about Utopias!


Strawman.

[Mr Happy]

You said you were a socialist. Can't take that back now.

Yes, you do.

No I did not.

[Chris]

No I did not.

Strawman.

[ptif219]

a FReeper alerting us to the Annenberg connection.... you certainly are un-baised.....:smiley_ROFLMAO:


It is truth and states facts. Here is proof from their website

http://www.factcheck.org/our-staff/



Director Emeritus, FactCheck.org http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/12/Brooks-Jackson.pngBrooks Jackson is a journalist who has covered Washington and national politics since 1970, reporting in turn for the Associated Press, the Wall Street Journal and CNN. He joined the Annenberg Public Policy Center in 2003 and launched FactCheck.org in December of that year.
At CNN, he pioneered the “adwatch” and “factcheck” form of stories debunking false and misleading political statements, starting with the presidential election of 1992. His investigative reporting for the AP and the Journal won several national awards. He is the author of three books: “Honest Graft: Big Money and the American Political Process” (Knopf, 1988); “Broken Promise: Why the Federal Election Commission Failed” (Twentieth Century Fund, 1990); and “unSpun: Finding Facts in a World of Disinformation” with Kathleen Hall Jamieson (Random House, 2007).

[Mr Happy]

Strawman.

Why? Either I said it or I didn't. What I did say was that I liked parts of both capitalism and socialism. How come you only tend to bring up the socialism part, Chris?

[Codename Section]

so you're pro choice, right?

I am pro the government not being involved at all, either to protect or deny it. "Pro Choice" is a term governed by a political movement to employ government pressures to force the states and communities to have abortion clinics and to promote federal funding of abortion. The Pro Choice movement supports public funds through grants to planned parenthood and argues loudly that people shouldn't have to drive more than 30 minutes for an abortion.

I'm not that. I don't want to know about abortion. I don't want the federal government to regulate or legislate about it. I want to not have to care about it.

Abortion is an individual, family, and community issue that can be handled by society rather than government.

[Chris]

Why? Either I said it or I didn't. What I did say was that I liked parts of both capitalism and socialism. How come you only tend to bring up the socialism part, Chris?

This is what you said @ http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/15917-Is-there-any-room-for-socialism-in-society-in-any-form?highlight=socialism:


I've always thought that the best political system is one that embraces both capitalism and socialism. It appears that there are some who don't want any kind of socialism at all because they see socialism as a dirty word. It doesn't have to be. I think there is this preconceived idea that socialism = bad, or people wanting hand outs, when that is not often the case.

You said nothing to promote capitalism, everything was directed at promoting socialism.

To be honest here, what you said was as much a straw man as any because I don't think you really have a clue what socialism is. For about the only other thing you even contributed to that your own thread was that socialism "is what tax is all about." Taxation is not socialism.

Nothing but a strawman.

[Chris]

I am pro the government not being involved at all, either to protect or deny it. "Pro Choice" is a term governed by a political movement to employ government pressures to force the states and communities to have abortion clinics and to promote federal funding of abortion. The Pro Choice movement supports public funds through grants to planned parenthood and argues loudly that people shouldn't have to drive more than 30 minutes for an abortion.

I'm not that. I don't want to know about abortion. I don't want the federal government to regulate or legislate about it. I want to not have to care about it.

Abortion is an individual, family, and community issue that can be handled by society rather than government.



I've argued much the same. She will not understand it. You will be branded a pro-lifer. Watch...

[Codename Section]

I've argued much the same. She will not understand it. You will be branded a pro-lifer. Watch...

Progressives and neocons both have a "you're either for us or against us" model. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt though and hope she understands that I'm anti-legislation and pro freedom.

[jillian]

Why? Either I said it or I didn't. What I did say was that I liked parts of both capitalism and socialism. How come you only tend to bring up the socialism part, Chris?

i'll take disingenuousness for 1000, alex.

[Mr Happy]

This is what you said @ http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/15917-Is-there-any-room-for-socialism-in-society-in-any-form?highlight=socialism:



You said nothing to promote capitalism, everything was directed at promoting socialism.

To be honest here, what you said was as much a straw man as any because I don't think you really have a clue what socialism is. For about the only other thing you even contributed to that your own thread was that socialism "is what tax is all about." Taxation is not socialism.

Nothing but a strawman.

Oh boy, you really don't have a clue, do you? Why do I bother...

[jillian]

I am pro the government not being involved at all, either to protect or deny it. "Pro Choice" is a term governed by a political movement to employ government pressures to force the states and communities to have abortion clinics and to promote federal funding of abortion. The Pro Choice movement supports public funds through grants to planned parenthood and argues loudly that people shouldn't have to drive more than 30 minutes for an abortion.

I'm not that. I don't want to know about abortion. I don't want the federal government to regulate or legislate about it. I want to not have to care about it.

Abortion is an individual, family, and community issue that can be handled by society rather than government.

in other words you're ok with some piece of garbage forcing a woman to have a vaginal ultrasound to humiliate her if she chooses to exercise her right to reproductive choice.

another pretend libertarian.... you'll throw a fit if someone makes you spend ten cents but won't defend adult women from the government intrusion into their bodies.

now you know why no one takes the pretend libertarians seriously.

barry goldwater wants you to stop using the term libertarian

[jillian]

Nothing but a strawman.


in youf unsubstantiated pretend libertarian "OPINION".

thanks for sharing.

[jillian]

Oh boy, you really don't have a clue, do you? Why do I bother...

even if he knew exactly what you were saying, he'd pretend he didn't so he could do his usual dance.

[Mr Happy]

i'll take disingenuousness for 1000, alex.

I would give you that $1000 but I fear it's more like trolling...

[jillian]

I would give you that $1000 but a fear it's more like trolling...

six of one, half dozen of another

[Mr Happy]

even if he knew exactly what you were saying, he'd pretend he didn't so he could do his usual dance.

I know. He takes one small post, and because I expand on the socialist aspect and not the capitalist aspect I am now a socialist? Beyond pathetic...mind you, it is Chris we are dealing with here.

[jillian]

I know. He takes one small post, and because I expand on the socialist aspect and not the capitalist aspect I am now a socialist? Beyond pathetic...mind you, it is Chris we are dealing with here.

yes, but you've told him repeatedly that you believe in a mixture of concepts and no one extreme. so one has to assume he is either incapable of comprehension or is intentionally distorting what you post.

[Mainecoons]

Jillian and Happy, happy trolling about other members. Sure beats making cogent, supportable arguments, yep.

Carry on!

:rofl:

[Dr. Who]

Warning to everyone - stop the personal attacks. Thank you

[Mister D]

This thread is an embarrassment to the forum.

[Mr Happy]

Certain aspects are for sure...