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Ravi
09-24-2013, 08:47 AM
"Those states" in the quote below being the Republican led states that are throwing a hissyfit over the ACA. They win, their citizens lose.


Not only are fewer people going to be covered in those states, but others might end up paying more for their coverage. That was the finding of a study (http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR189.html) released recently by RAND, which looked at Florida, Louisiana, and Texas. The population purchasing health coverage on the marketplaces will likely be less healthy without expansion, according to the study.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/no-obamacare-here-s-what-your-state-gets

Paperback Writer
09-24-2013, 09:02 AM
They're all retiree states.

jillian
09-24-2013, 09:04 AM
They're all retiree states.

you mean the people who get social security and medicare?

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 09:05 AM
Don't bother with the rest of the story as to the budget cost of the ACA to the states.

We already know your solution to everything is to raise taxes.

Believe me, when the retired folks figure out how the ACA is screwing up Medicare, the crapola is going to hit the fan. All the more reason to let it go into affect and force Obama to implement all of it and get the courts to throw out those waivers he's given to his cronies.

The more pain to the more people as a result of ACA the more blowback on the progressives. This really is the opportunity of a lifetime to turn the tide against them.

Ravi
09-24-2013, 09:07 AM
They're all retiree states.
Wrong. Not that your comment has any meaning to the topic.

Paperback Writer
09-24-2013, 09:08 AM
you mean the people who get social security and medicare?

Correct, those states will have significantly more health issues, so it is not a (R) or (D) thing but a warm weather and snowbirds issue.

Paperback Writer
09-24-2013, 09:09 AM
Wrong. Not that your comment has any meaning to the topic.

It has a lot of meaning. You're stating that "Republican" states are screwing the limited or fixed income people and that's just not the case.

You can make an argument for single payer health without turning it into partisan hysteria.

nic34
09-24-2013, 09:10 AM
Gov boney-finger in Az opted in..... tee-pers are mad at her...... boo hoo!!!

zelmo1234
09-24-2013, 09:15 AM
Michigan created is own pool and separated itself.

The problem is that the money from the Feds for the ACA gets drastically reduced as time goes by, so the states that have opted in to the federal system, are bankrupt but they don't know it.

The feds off load the cost tot he states and that is how they get their long term savings from the program.

ptif219
09-24-2013, 09:17 AM
"Those states" in the quote below being the Republican led states that are throwing a hissyfit over the ACA. They win, their citizens lose.



http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/no-obamacare-here-s-what-your-state-gets

Just shows it is a bad bill and is not fair to everybody. Blame Obama and the democrats You liberals think all should have insurance yet millions will remained uninsured under Obamacare. This bill does not do what you think it does. Your article is liberal Love Obama lie. Many databases are not ready but that does not matter to Obama. This should be put on hold until it is ready

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/obamacare-one-blow-after-another-97231.html?hp=t1_3

Common
09-24-2013, 09:17 AM
It was in the paper here in fla yesterday that florida and texas have the most uninsured


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/opinion/uninsured-in-texas-and-florida.html?_r=0

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 09:20 AM
Gov boney-finger in Az opted in..... tee-pers are mad at her...... boo hoo!!!

To our newcomers, here's another one of our intellectual giants.

ptif219
09-24-2013, 09:20 AM
Gov boney-finger in Az opted in..... tee-pers are mad at her...... boo hoo!!!

Get ready to pay more. Exchages are not ready

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/24/one-man-obamacare-nightmare/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/one-week-away-obamacares-small-business-insurance-exchanges-not-all-ready-for-launch/2013/09/23/1d44cc46-2225-11e3-a358-1144dee636dd_story.html

Ravi
09-24-2013, 09:21 AM
It has a lot of meaning. You're stating that "Republican" states are screwing the limited or fixed income people and that's just not the case.

You can make an argument for single payer health without turning it into partisan hysteria.
You are misinformed. The only state on the list that is in the top five of states with large populations of retirees is Florida. It is most certainly a red state issue.

Ravi
09-24-2013, 09:22 AM
It was in the paper here in fla yesterday that florida and texas have the most uninsured


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/opinion/uninsured-in-texas-and-florida.html?_r=0
Yep. And thanks to the Republicans, people in Florida will continue to have the most uninsured and the most expensive premiums.

Chris
09-24-2013, 09:23 AM
The population purchasing health coverage on the marketplaces will likely be less healthy without expansion, according to the study.

How was that determined? The OP article doesn't explain. Insurance and health care are two different things.

Cigar
09-24-2013, 09:24 AM
To our newcomers, here's another one of our intellectual giants.

Fishing for support ... ? :laugh:

ptif219
09-24-2013, 09:24 AM
It was in the paper here in fla yesterday that florida and texas have the most uninsured


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/opinion/uninsured-in-texas-and-florida.html?_r=0

Under Obamacare that may not change

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/08/left-behind-stories-from-obamacares-31-million-uninsured/


The Affordable Care Act, the most sweeping health care program created in a half century, is expected to extend coverage to 25 million Americans over the next decade, according to the most recent government estimates (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44190_EffectsAffordableCareActHealthInsuranceCover age_2.pdf). But that will still leave a projected 31 million people without insurance by 2023. Those left out include undocumented workers and poor people living in the 21 states, such as Virginia (http://wapo.st/17jkndm), that have so far declined to expand Medicaid under the statute, commonly called Obamacare.
“The law will cut the number of the uninsured in half,” said Matthew Buettgens of the Urban Institute. “This is an important development, but it certainly isn’t the definition of universal.”
As a result, while hospitals and other providers gear up to handle an influx of Americans who will be newly insured as of Jan. 1, many of the nation’s 1,000 free clinics, which cater to the uninsured and are financed mostly by private donations, are redoubling efforts to help those bypassed by the law. The trend shows both the limits of the law and the way it is affecting nearly every corner of the health-care system, sometimes in little-noticed ways.

Paperback Writer
09-24-2013, 09:25 AM
You are misinformed. The only state on the list that is in the top five of states with large populations of retirees is Florida. It is most certainly a red state issue.

I'm sorry, should have said retirees and large undocumented immigrant populations.

Ravi
09-24-2013, 09:26 AM
To our newcomers, here's another one of our intellectual giants.

Why don't you just start a thread about who you do and do not approve of so everyone will know. Or just PM posters with your views.

I'd think you'd be embarrassed at your own display of childishness.

Ravi
09-24-2013, 09:27 AM
I'm sorry, should have said retirees and large undocumented immigrant populations.
Undocumented immigrants aren't eligible under the ACA.

ptif219
09-24-2013, 09:31 AM
Yep. And thanks to the Republicans, people in Florida will continue to have the most uninsured and the most expensive premiums.

No that will be the Obamacare states. Obamacare leaves millions uninsured because it is a lie. Down the road when federal funds stop it will bankrupt the states

ptif219
09-24-2013, 09:32 AM
Undocumented immigrants aren't eligible under the ACA.

They will be.

jillian
09-24-2013, 09:35 AM
They will be.

is that what glen beck told you?

Ravi
09-24-2013, 09:36 AM
They will be.

They SHOULD be but they won't be. Why should they get free emergency care? Oh, right, because the Republicans are xenophobes that will cut off their noses to spite their faces.

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 09:50 AM
Two more demonstrations of giant intellects:


is that what glen beck told you?


Oh, right, because the Republicans are xenophobes that will cut off their noses to spite their faces.

jillian
09-24-2013, 10:01 AM
Correct, those states will have significantly more health issues, so it is not a (R) or (D) thing but a warm weather and snowbirds issue.

medicare is paid for by the federal government. so is social security. yes?

zelmo1234
09-24-2013, 10:02 AM
medicare is paid for by the federal government. so is social security. yes?

And are both insolvent too!

They are shitty programs that give minimal care and just enough money so one can be considered poor!

If poverty is your goal these programs are for you

ptif219
09-24-2013, 10:32 AM
is that what glen beck told you?


I don't listen to Beck. Do You since you think that comes from him?

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/03/43188-you-lie-democrats-vote-to-give-free-healthcare-to-illegal-immigrants/


As Roll Call (http://www.rollcall.com/news/immigration_vote_splits_gang_of_8-223395-1.html?pg=1) reported:
The Senate early Saturday morning defeated the amendment to the budget resolution which would have put the Senate on record as opposing access to health care under Medicaid or the Affordable Care Act for undocumented immigrants who get a green card.
Just to clarify, there is ambiguity in the Obamacare law and the GOP’s measure would have resolved it. The Democrats voted in committee to block it. This is what the Obamacare law states (http://www.examiner.com/article/the-proof-that-obamacare-will-cover-illegal-immigrants):

Does Not Require Proof of Citizenship to Obtain Health Services: While Section 246 (page 143) of the bill expressly prohibits illegal aliens from receiving government-run healthcare, the bill does not include a specific requirement that a person prove his or her citizenship in order to obtain affordability credits, which means that illegal aliens could obtain coverage.
So the Democrats know that this is a flaw in the bill and they refuse to fix it.

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 10:36 AM
Punked again, Jillian. This is what happens when a not very bright person posts on a board that has a lot of bright people.

The contrast is painful. You may be oblivious to it but it is quite obvious to the rest of us. OK, excluding Marie, Nic and Cigar.

:grin:

jillian
09-24-2013, 10:37 AM
Punked again. This is what happens when a not very bright person posts on a board that has a lot of bright people.

The contrast is painful.

:grin:

yes. so you should stop posting and let the smart people talk.

cheers.

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 10:39 AM
Punked again, Jillian. This is what happens when a not very bright person posts on a board that has a lot of bright people.

The contrast is painful. You may be oblivious to it but it is quite obvious to the rest of us. OK, excluding Marie, Nic and Cigar.

:grin:

Try again, dear. Never confuse yourself with smart people.

jillian
09-24-2013, 10:41 AM
I don't listen to Beck. Do You since you think that comes from him?

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/03/43188-you-lie-democrats-vote-to-give-free-healthcare-to-illegal-immigrants/

so you're using the refusal of senators, including a goodly number of republicans, to refuse to include the rightwing version of immigrant reform into the ACA as somehow meaning illegals are gonig to be covered?

interesting conflating of issues.

Chris
09-24-2013, 10:41 AM
yes. so you should stop posting and let the smart people talk.

cheers.



Tu quoque.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOGWbzUM-y8

Ravi
09-24-2013, 10:42 AM
so you're using the refusal of senators, including a goodly number of republicans, to refuse to include the rightwing version of immigrant reform into the ACA as somehow meaning illegals are gonig to be covered?

interesting conflating of issues.

Ted Cruz told him so so it must be true. hahahaha

jillian
09-24-2013, 10:43 AM
Tu quoque.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOGWbzUM-y8

i don't get youtube at work. thanks

perhaps you should take your own advice, though.

tell me, chris, did you "take care of" us yet?

nic34
09-24-2013, 10:44 AM
Wrong again folks:

In fact, Obamacare explicitly denies insurance coverage to illegal immigrants in Section 1312 (f)(3):

Access limited to lawful residents. If an individual is not, or is not reasonably expected to be for the entire period for which enrollment is sought, a citizen or national of the United States or an alien lawfully present in the United States, the individual shall not be treated as a qualified individual and may not be covered under a qualified health plan in the individual market that is offered through an Exchange.

The truth is you were already paying for some illegal immigrants' care long before Obamacare. It's because of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), signed into law by Reagan in 1986.

More than 100,000 people a year, mostly illegal immigrants, receive "emergency Medicaid" in the 7 states with most immigrants, according to a Kaiser Institute study.

http://politix.topix.com/homepage/7422-no-obamacare-does-not-cover-millions-of-illegal-immigrants

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 10:45 AM
You're at work? Spending your day on this board?

OK

ptif219
09-24-2013, 10:50 AM
medicare is paid for by the federal government. so is social security. yes?

Obamacare will put millions on medicaid. The funds for fraud enforcement have been cut so you will see more fraud under obamacare. This means healthcare insurance prices will increase

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101041552


Deep staff cuts are hitting a federal agency responsible for investigating health-care fraud just as Obamacare is due to kick in, leaving less people to investigate an ever-growing crime that costs taxpayers billions of dollars.
And in a perverse twist, the funding cuts at the Health and Human Services Department's Inspector General's Office might save money in the short term for the U.S. taxpayer. But over the long run, more money that could have been recouped from the fraud cases now going unpursued, is being left on the table, the agency said.
For every $1 spent on health-care fraud probes, nearly $8 is recouped in fines, restitution or settlements, according to HHS.

"With fewer agents we investigate fewer cases, and with fewer cases we're likely to have fewer convictions, few civil settlements, which will likely translate into less recoveries," said Gary Cantrell, deputy inspector general for investigations at HHS, which investigates Medicare and Medicaid fraud.
"The problem is certainly growing . . . yet our resources are declining."
The Office of Inspector General is halfway to its goal of reducing staff by a total of 400 people from a previous level of about 1,800 employees. The cuts, which may continue into 2015, are being made because OIG is faced with $30 million in expiring funding streams, another $25 million in funds that have been authorized but not appropriated since 2009, and about $15 million in cuts as a result of the federal government's sequestration spending reductions.

junie
09-24-2013, 10:53 AM
Don't bother with the rest of the story as to the budget cost of the ACA to the states.

We already know your solution to everything is to raise taxes.

Believe me, when the retired folks figure out how the ACA is screwing up Medicare, the crapola is going to hit the fan. All the more reason to let it go into affect and force Obama to implement all of it and get the courts to throw out those waivers he's given to his cronies.

The more pain to the more people as a result of ACA the more blowback on the progressives. This really is the opportunity of a lifetime to turn the tide against them.



oh wow, what a brilliant plan? :laughing4:




"Obamacare's health insurance marketplaces, the law's public face, go live in one week. Many uninsured Americans will be able to log onto a website, enter some basic information and apply for private health coverage. When the law was written, some of them would have found out they qualified for Medicaid after the program was expanded nationwide.

But because the U.S. Supreme Court made the Medicaid expansion optional last year and more than 20 GOP-controlled states refused to expand the program, millions of poor and uninsured Americans will log onto the marketplaces in the coming months and find out they won't be able to get health insurance after all.

And those who can might be paying a little more."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/no-obamacare-here-s-what-your-state-gets

jillian
09-24-2013, 10:55 AM
there should absolutely be protections against fraud. i'm all with you on that.

so they should stop the sequester and stop cutting government to the bone so we can afford the oversight.

perhaps untended consequences?

ptif219
09-24-2013, 10:55 AM
so you're using the refusal of senators, including a goodly number of republicans, to refuse to include the rightwing version of immigrant reform into the ACA as somehow meaning illegals are gonig to be covered?

interesting conflating of issues.

Democrats are still trying to make it happen. They will not stop until we end up paying for illegals health care. More to the point they can still go to emergency rooms at our expense

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 10:56 AM
And your brilliant plan is to defund it?

OK, Junie, I didn't realize you were a closet Republican. Thanks for the correction.

I'll try and keep this simple. There are two options here:

ACA takes effect in one week.

OR

ACA is blocked by no funding.

I'm arguing for the former. I believe that the thing is administratively impossible. You must think it is not.

Just how do we find out who is correct if it doesn't go into effect?

I'm sorry that I didn't simplify this enough for you. Does this help?

Agravan
09-24-2013, 11:01 AM
there should absolutely be protections against fraud. i'm all with you on that.

so they should stop the sequester and stop cutting government to the bone so we can afford the oversight.

perhaps untended consequences?

A one percent cut in the INCREASE of funding is not "cutting government to the bone", just hyperbole on your part.

ptif219
09-24-2013, 11:08 AM
there should absolutely be protections against fraud. i'm all with you on that.

so they should stop the sequester and stop cutting government to the bone so we can afford the oversight.

perhaps untended consequences?

Obama gave us the sequester. So tell Obama

ptif219
09-24-2013, 11:10 AM
And your brilliant plan is to defund it?

OK, Junie, I didn't realize you were a closet Republican. Thanks for the correction.

I'll try and keep this simple. There are two options here:

ACA takes effect in one week.

OR

ACA is blocked by no funding.

I'm arguing for the former. I believe that the thing is administratively impossible. You must think it is not.

Just how do we find out who is correct if it doesn't go into effect?

I'm sorry that I didn't simplify this enough for you. Does this help?

I want the house CR to pass. A 2 month delay is needed to fix Obamacare data base. Obama is willing to put your information on a database that does not work and the security is not good

Chris
09-24-2013, 11:29 AM
there should absolutely be protections against fraud. i'm all with you on that.

so they should stop the sequester and stop cutting government to the bone so we can afford the oversight.

perhaps untended consequences?



The sequester is not cutting government to the bone, jillian, the sequester will cut by maybe 1.5% planned spending rate increases. Obama proposed it, you should be familiar with it.