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Ravi
09-24-2013, 10:56 AM
I see Republicans are freaking out left and right. The WSJ today slammed Cruz for his attempts to shut down the government. The infighting among Republican politicians is getting to be better than any comedy show I've ever seen.

I wish Newt Gingrich would get on the TV and explain the joys of shutting down the government.

:)

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 10:57 AM
I wish you could post something other than your partisan toxicity.

You might actually appear intelligent for a change.

For a change.

Ravi
09-24-2013, 10:58 AM
I wish you could post something other than your partisan toxicity.

You might actually appear intelligent for a change.

For a change.

As long as the Republicans are intent on destroying the country they reap what they sow.

Cigar
09-24-2013, 11:00 AM
I see Republicans are freaking out left and right. The WSJ today slammed Cruz for his attempts to shut down the government. The infighting among Republican politicians is getting to be better than any comedy show I've ever seen.

I wish Newt Gingrich would get on the TV and explain the joys of shutting down the government.

:)

Good Post and really good question ...

Just because some people don't want to see you ask a question, doesn't make them the authority of all questions posted on this forum.

I think a few Conservative Republicans couldn't care less about anyone other then their own donors and backers.

They are selfish and self serving SOBs

Agravan
09-24-2013, 11:02 AM
Shutting down the government will be the Democrat's choice. Republicans voted to fund EVERYTHING except obamacare.

Chris
09-24-2013, 11:05 AM
Gingrich, isn't he the guy who sold out Contract with America to the GOP establishment?

Interesting practically the same fight is going on now.

AmazonTania
09-24-2013, 11:22 AM
The President is still the only one with any real power to stop it. This pointless pontificating is meaningless.

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 11:27 AM
Mostly but it will put everyone of them on record about the ACA before the next election. That is about all it will do.

Ravi
09-24-2013, 11:28 AM
Shutting down the government will be the Democrat's choice. Republicans voted to fund EVERYTHING except obamacare.
Is that what Newt says? :)

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 11:29 AM
Is that what Newt says? :)

Another burst of intelligence from Marie!

:rofl:

AmazonTania
09-24-2013, 11:34 AM
Selective reading…

Cigar
09-24-2013, 11:35 AM
The President is still the only one with any real power to stop it. This pointless pontificating is meaningless.

It's been at least 3 years, over 41 Repeal Votes, a Supreme Court Ruling and The President of The United States saying each and ever week that he is NOT going Black on his Health Care LAW!

So .... exactly what can't the Republican Party understand? :huh:

Cigar
09-24-2013, 11:37 AM
Shutting down the government will be the Democrat's choice. Republicans voted to fund EVERYTHING except obamacare.

And Obama said NO!

Now ask the question another 41 times and see if he changes his mind. :rollseyes:

AmazonTania
09-24-2013, 11:38 AM
It's been at least 3 years, over 41 Repeal Votes, a Supreme Court Ruling and The President of The United States saying each and ever week that he is NOT going Black on his Health Care LAW!

So .... exactly what can't the Republican Party understand? :huh:

Apparently, you can't seem to understand that funds need to be appropriated for the program. The fact that its the law of the land is meaningless.

Are you sure you run a business? Basic governmental accounting seems to escape you.

jillian
09-24-2013, 11:38 AM
Shutting down the government will be the Democrat's choice. Republicans voted to fund EVERYTHING except obamacare.

and when you give ultimatums, its on you.

it's like a child stamping its feet and saying it only wants the toy in the window or it will throw a temper tantrum in the street.

Cigar
09-24-2013, 11:56 AM
Apparently, you can't seem to understand that funds need to be appropriated for the program. The fact that its the law of the land is meaningless.

Are you sure you run a business? Basic governmental accounting seems to escape you.

Oh ... an insult :laugh:

http://www.thesharkguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/curly.jpg

AmazonTania ... Please ... Stop it will you ... you're embarrassing yourself ... please do a little research first ... ok.

Here ... I'll give you a little hint to start with ...

Check out Mandatory Funds, what year those Mandatory Funds were issued, NOT annual discretionary appropriations.

AmazonTania
09-24-2013, 11:57 AM
and when you give ultimatums, its on you.

it's like a child stamping its feet and saying it only wants the toy in the window or it will throw a temper tantrum in the street.

The only ultimatum is being created by the president. He is the only on who has the choice in the matter

Cigar
09-24-2013, 11:58 AM
The only ultimatum is being created by the president. He is the only on who has the choice in the matter



Yep and that choice was made well over 3 years ago ... didn't you get the Memo?

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 12:04 PM
and when you give ultimatums, its on you.

it's like a child stamping its feet and saying it only wants the toy in the window or it will throw a temper tantrum in the street.

And you're a child that turns every topic into a "you" topic. Agravan made a statement about Democrats and Republicans. Not himself.

Cigar
09-24-2013, 12:11 PM
Mostly but it will put everyone of them on record about the ACA before the next election. That is about all it will do.

that's all you can do ... besides wait for October 1st 2013 :grin:

AmazonTania
09-24-2013, 12:28 PM
Oh ... an insult :laugh:

http://www.thesharkguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/curly.jpg

AmazonTania ... Please ... Stop it will you ... you're embarrassing yourself ... please do a little research first ... ok.

Here ... I'll give you a little hint to start with ...

Check out Mandatory Funds, what year those Mandatory Funds were issued, NOT annual discretionary appropriations.



What IS embarrassing is that a foreigner knows more about how your government functions than you do… And you live here!

Its not manditory spending unless funds are appropriated for the program. In the same way the fund were appropriated for TARP and the Economic Stability and Recovery Act, Obamacare actually has to be added to the bill in order for it to be considered mandatory spending. The fact that its a statute in the US code is not enough.

Try again.

GrassrootsConservative
09-24-2013, 12:37 PM
and when you give ultimatums, its on you.

it's like a child stamping its feet and saying it only wants the toy in the window or it will throw a temper tantrum in the street.

And the child is Liberals and the toy in the window is Obamacare.

Not the real Obamacare that will ruin the lives of many American citizens, but the Obamacare Obama has been pushing and the pipedream that such a vast amount of Liberals are chasing. That "utopian" idea of universal healthcare.

Agravan
09-24-2013, 01:53 PM
And Obama said NO!

Now ask the question another 41 times and see if he changes his mind. :rollseyes:
Good. Then he is the one shutting down the government, not the Republicans.

Chris
09-24-2013, 01:55 PM
Obama the uncompromising obstructionist.

Agravan
09-24-2013, 01:56 PM
October 1st 2013 ObamaCare (ACA) becomes American way of life forever :grin:

Is this like how slavery was an American way of life? What happened to those laws, Cigar?

Cigar
09-24-2013, 01:58 PM
October 1st 2013 ObamaCare (ACA) becomes American way of life forever :grin:

Is this like how slavery was an American way of life? What happened to those laws, Cigar?




Looks like there's a new Master in town :afro:

Cigar
09-24-2013, 01:59 PM
Obama the uncompromising obstructionist.


Learning from the best ...

Cigar
09-24-2013, 02:10 PM
What IS embarrassing is that a foreigner knows more about how your government functions than you do… And you live here!

Its not manditory spending unless funds are appropriated for the program. In the same way the fund were appropriated for TARP and the Economic Stability and Recovery Act, Obamacare actually has to be added to the bill in order for it to be considered mandatory spending. The fact that its a statute in the US code is not enough.

Try again.

More than 70% of ObamaCare is funded by mandatory spending and can't be defunded through congressional appropriations.

Most of the law would march on, even if Congress could defunded it., the rest comes from new insurance payers who are lining up .. big time.

You're completely misinformed, but there's no charge per swing ... so keep swinging.

Cigar
09-24-2013, 02:11 PM
Good. Then he is the one shutting down the government, not the Republicans.

Guess who gets blamed

Chris
09-24-2013, 02:12 PM
Looks like there's a new Master in town :afro:

And that master is the State.

Chris
09-24-2013, 02:13 PM
Guess who gets blamed

Those is power if it fails.

Cigar
09-24-2013, 02:18 PM
Those is power if it fails.



Are you betting on that .. ?

Chris
09-24-2013, 02:20 PM
Are you betting on that .. ?

Not a betting man, are you?

Cigar
09-24-2013, 02:23 PM
Not a betting man, are you?

Yep ... but only if I get Vegas Odds :laugh:

Chris
09-24-2013, 02:33 PM
Obama selfish, stubborn on health care (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/09/23/obamacare-gop-debt-ceiling-column/2850061/)


So the Republican-controlled House of Representatives -- with the help of a couple of Democrats -- has voted to defund ObamaCare. In response, President Obama, declaring that the Republicans are "trying to mess with me," has accused the House of trying to shut down the government.

But the government will only shut down if Obama vetoes the budget that comes to his desk. The House budget funds everything except for implementation of the Affordable Care Act better known as ObamaCare. In truth, by refusing even to negotiate with the House leadership and threatening to veto a budget that doesn't fit his own specifications, it is Obama, not the House of Representatives, who is putting the country at risk of a government shutdown.

It's also sadly typical that Obama sees this debate as being all about him. The Republicans aren't trying to overturn a deeply unpopular bill that was crammed through on a party-line vote despite widespread opposition by Republicans and Democrats. They're "trying to mess with" Obama. It's not about policies or governance, it's about personalities.....

He's been outmaneuvered.

Venus
09-24-2013, 02:44 PM
and when you give ultimatums, its on you.

it's like a child stamping its feet and saying it only wants the toy in the window or it will throw a temper tantrum in the street.

.........

jillian
09-24-2013, 02:46 PM
Obama is giving

that's so funny.

righties: give up your signature law or we shut down the government!!!!

the president: huh? why would i do that? it got voted for and upheld by the supreme Court

righties: but we don't want you to have it

the president: uh...yeah, and?

righties: get rid of it or we'll shut down the government!!!! waaaaaaah!!!

the president: you do that, mmmkay? :cuckoo:

who is tossing around the ultimatims again? a little cognative disonance there, girlfriend.

Alyosha
09-24-2013, 02:48 PM
that's so funny.

righties: give up your signature law or we shut down the government!!!!

the president: huh? why would i do that? it got voted for and upheld by the supreme Court

righties: but we don't want you to have it

the president: uh...yeah, and?

righties: get rid of it or we'll shut down the government!!!! waaaaaaah!!!

the president: you do that, mmmkay? :cuckoo:

who is tossing around the ultimatims again? a little cognative disonance there, girlfriend.

So you're for Citizen's United?

jillian
09-24-2013, 02:50 PM
So you're for Citizen's United?

did you read my post on that subject????

it sucks. but it's law.... until there's a new court anyway.

again... that's life.

Alyosha
09-24-2013, 02:52 PM
did you read my post on that subject????

it sucks. but it's law.... until there's a new court anyway.

again... that's life.

Until there's a new court says it all. The court is whimsical and partisan which is not the purpose of the court, thus becoming an illegal rogue entity.

I was and am against Citizen's United, unless of course they are willing to say that companies who break the law "go to jail", ie have their doors shut for the same period of time that people would go to jail.

jillian
09-24-2013, 02:53 PM
Until there's a new court says it all. The court is whimsical and partisan which is not the purpose of the court, thus becoming an illegal rogue entity.

I was and am against Citizen's United, unless of course they are willing to say that companies who break the law "go to jail", ie have their doors shut for the same period of time that people would go to jail.

no. the point is you don't see anyone threatening to shut down the government over citizens united even though it was the worst decision since dred scott.

get it?

Alyosha
09-24-2013, 02:56 PM
no. the point is you don't see anyone threatening to shut down the government over citizens united even though it was the worst decision since dred scott.

get it?


They should have. Get it?

Why must we sit back and just accept things like the Patriot Act and Citizen's United? That's just wrong and immoral. We're crafting the future now. We can't saddle the future with this debt or a system we intend to have fail so we can get another system in--that's immoral and decadent.

Mainecoons
09-24-2013, 02:57 PM
Cigar just can't grasp the distinction between repealing ObamaCare and refusing to fund it further. While both are well within the purview of the House, the latter is primarily assigned to them as the first party of the three branches of government responsible for appropriating funds.

So if Obama chooses to close down the government because this new activity isn't funded, it is his choice and his responsibility.

But that isn't the way it is being or is going to be presented to the public by the ObamaPress and that is the fatal flaw in the Republican strategy. And the only way to avoid that flaw is to go to the point of getting everyone on record prior to funding ObamaCare under duress. If what more and more people, both Democrat and Republican, and the union people are saying, this thing is really going to bomb and blow back on Obama and the Democrats in time for the November election.

The Republicans simply can't give Obama the option of shutting down the government because that will bomb and blow back on the Congress. Period.

jillian
09-24-2013, 03:00 PM
They should have. Get it?

Why must we sit back and just accept things like the Patriot Act and Citizen's United? That's just wrong and immoral. We're crafting the future now. We can't saddle the future with this debt or a system we intend to have fail so we can get another system in--that's immoral and decadent.

maybe... but we're generally grown ups and until now we've had a rule of law. a bunch of numbskulls ranting about shutting the government in a giant tantrum? when they're not getting what they want anyway?? look.

absurd behavior. but i bet it really uppped cruz's name recognition... which is really all he cares about anyway since he knows he's not getting what he wants.

i'm all for peaceful protest, but this is just dumb.

Venus
09-24-2013, 03:01 PM
that's so funny.

righties: give up your signature law or we shut down the government!!!!

the president: huh? why would i do that? it got voted for and upheld by the supreme Court

righties: but we don't want you to have it

the president: uh...yeah, and?

righties: get rid of it or we'll shut down the government!!!! waaaaaaah!!!

the president: you do that, mmmkay? :cuckoo:

who is tossing around the ultimatims again? a little cognative disonance there, girlfriend.

You got all of that from a three word incomplete accidental post?

zelmo1234
09-24-2013, 03:10 PM
It's been at least 3 years, over 41 Repeal Votes, a Supreme Court Ruling and The President of The United States saying each and ever week that he is NOT going Black on his Health Care LAW!

So .... exactly what can't the Republican Party understand? :huh:

Why we are hell bent on enacting a law that 70% of the people want repealed or changed for starters

next I think we need to know where the money is going to come from!

Third I would like to know why the people in Washington get a pass on the ACA and don't have to comply with the rules.

And last why are we enacting only parts of the law and delaying the parts that help the people get insurance?

Those are just a few things that are not real wrapped up

Alyosha
09-24-2013, 03:13 PM
maybe... but we're generally grown ups and until now we've had a rule of law.

We had a rule of law called the Constitution and it was violated by all three branches of government in order to grab more power towards the central state.

Grown ups fight for their children's future. To me this is not about health care for the poor. I want the poor to have access to doctors. It is about the state awarding insurance companies with money they didn't earn or deserve through a forced tax at the expense of middle class Americans, most of whom are struggling to make ends meet.




a bunch of numbskulls ranting about shutting the government in a giant tantrum? when they're not getting what they want anyway?? look.


Anyone who supports the party of Nancy "meltdown" Pelosi and Diane "senile" Feinsten and Joe "crazy drunk uncle" Biden can't call anyone else numbskulls without sounding like a partisan hypocrite.



absurd behavior. but i bet it really uppped cruz's name recognition... which is really all he cares about anyway since he knows he's not getting what he wants.


Some people have principles. I know its rare in Washington, but it happens.



i'm all for peaceful protest, but this is just dumb.

I'm for a Sam Adams style of protest and a John Adams style of protest--which is what Cruz is doing.

Agravan
09-24-2013, 03:19 PM
We had a rule of law called the Constitution and it was violated by all three branches of government in order to grab more power towards the central state.

Grown ups fight for their children's future. To me this is not about health care for the poor. I want the poor to have access to doctors. It is about the state awarding insurance companies with money they didn't earn or deserve through a forced tax at the expense of middle class Americans, most of whom are struggling to make ends meet.



Anyone who supports the party of Nancy "meltdown" Pelosi and Diane "senile" Feinsten and Joe "crazy drunk uncle" Biden can't call anyone else numbskulls without sounding like a partisan hypocrite.



Some people have principles. I know its rare in Washington, but it happens.



I'm for a Sam Adams style of protest and a John Adams style of protest--which is what Cruz is doing.

Of course, had this been a Democrat senator doing this, jillian would be praising his brave, principled stand. But a Republican? He's just stupid.

zelmo1234
09-24-2013, 03:27 PM
I have an idea and a compromise that might work and make all sides a little happier

here is what I believe is the latest 10 year cost of Obamacare 2.6 trillion only 1.7 trillion higher than expected

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-now-estimated-cost-26-trillion-first-decade_648413.html

We have a terrible debt problem and and this would almost assure insolvency before that 10 years was up, so nobody wants that.

So what if we do a 2 month contimuing resolution funding everything, even the parts of Obamacare that will be enacted, there is no reason to fund all that parts that have been put off until after the 2014 elections. they don't need funding for the next 2 months!

Then we do a sequester on the debt ceiling and this time we only allow 10% of the cuts to come from the military. as they were hit the hardest the last time.

Then if Democrats really thing that Obamacare it the best thing to come down the road, they can find 2.6 trillion in cuts that is 260 billion a year in cuts. On the left side of the sequester would be the waiver for Obamacare for federal government workers, union workers, and the funding for PBS, green energy subsidies and Planned Parent hood? on the right it would be 10% from the military , farm and oil subsidies and a 1.5% across the board income tax increase

If the agree to this and can come up with 10% of the cuts for 10 years or just 26 billion the approve a debt ceiling that would fund the government for 6 months so they can work out the details?

Could we get agreement on something like this!

Matty
09-24-2013, 04:37 PM
I see Republicans are freaking out left and right. The WSJ today slammed Cruz for his attempts to shut down the government. The infighting among Republican politicians is getting to be better than any comedy show I've ever seen.

I wish Newt Gingrich would get on the TV and explain the joys of shutting down the government.

:)



I would swear that I thought Ted Cruz was trying to de fund obama care.

Chris
09-24-2013, 05:21 PM
maybe... but we're generally grown ups and until now we've had a rule of law. a bunch of numbskulls ranting about shutting the government in a giant tantrum? when they're not getting what they want anyway?? look.

absurd behavior. but i bet it really uppped cruz's name recognition... which is really all he cares about anyway since he knows he's not getting what he wants.

i'm all for peaceful protest, but this is just dumb.



I tell you, if this above is the norm of political thought in America today, something that cannot rise above babyish petty personal politics, we're in trouble.

Ravi
09-24-2013, 05:59 PM
I would swear that I thought Ted Cruz was trying to de fund obama care.

I've no idea what he is trying to do. It appears he is trying to filibuster a bill to defund ACA.

RosieS
09-24-2013, 06:25 PM
I've no idea what he is trying to do. It appears he is trying to filibuster a bill to defund ACA.

He is trying to mobilize far right support for a run against Hillary in 2016. It is about Ted Cruz' s future, not Americans'.

Fine. Just try.

Regards from Rosie

Alyosha
09-24-2013, 06:28 PM
He's trying to stand up for the taxpayers and people who ELECTED HIM on his platform because when the bill for Obamacare comes due and its a colossal failure people will want to say: I tried to stop it.

Peter1469
09-24-2013, 07:23 PM
He's trying to stand up for the taxpayers and people who ELECTED HIM on his platform because when the bill for Obamacare comes due and its a colossal failure people will want to say: I tried to stop it.

That sums it up.