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kilgram
09-28-2013, 04:38 PM
LOL. Kansas is an interesting place. It is funny see how some Christians are as extremist as Muslim and like ignorance.


Christian groups filed a pair of lawsuits in Federal District Court challenging the Kansas state Board of Education’s decision to implement a state-wide set of science standards. On June 11, the Kansas state Board of Education adopted a universal set of science standards to be taught in classrooms across the state from kindergarten to grade 12. Faith groups are up in arms that their beliefs are not being given more credence in science classes.
Link to the news (http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/9/27/-christian-groups-sue-to-stop-kansas-schools-from-adopting-science-standards)

“The Orthodoxy is not religiously neutral as it permits only materialistic/atheistic answers to ultimate religious questions,” said the group’s statement. The group maintained that questions like “Where do we come from?” can only be answered honestly by religious dogma.
Seriously if it was a joke, I would be laughing a lot.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 04:49 PM
While I think the anti-science standard lawsuit is silly, it is also silly to compare these strange Christians to Islamists (extremist Muslims). Or has there been a rash of people getting their heads sawed off with dull knifes in Kansas that I missed?

Mister D
09-28-2013, 05:06 PM
Atheists can be just as "interesting". For example, in 2010 Justice Roberts was sued by atheist (neurotic Jew) Michael Newdow et al in order to prevent him from saying "so help me God" during Obama's inauguration. :rollseyes:

kilgram
09-28-2013, 05:09 PM
While I think the anti-science standard lawsuit is silly, it is also silly to compare these strange Christians to Islamists (extremist Muslims). Or has there been a rash of people getting their heads sawed off with dull knifes in Kansas that I missed?
The only difference is that for now ones don't resort to violence. But for example, in Mexico there have been killings by Christians. The problem is that the Extremism is bad, and they are extremist.

However, from my point of view, Christians and Islamic(the two Abrahammic that I know best) are nor really different. The difference is the power in society they have. And Christians have less power than Islamic.

shaarona
09-28-2013, 06:31 PM
While I think the anti-science standard lawsuit is silly, it is also silly to compare these strange Christians to Islamists (extremist Muslims). Or has there been a rash of people getting their heads sawed off with dull knifes in Kansas that I missed?

In the science and technology center at KAUST university, they have remarkable interactive displays of how KSA was formed.. Its all about geology... and there is a small brass plaque at each with the creation story in the Koran.. They don't seem to have a problem.

jillian
09-28-2013, 06:47 PM
While I think the anti-science standard lawsuit is silly, it is also silly to compare these strange Christians to Islamists (extremist Muslims). Or has there been a rash of people getting their heads sawed off with dull knifes in Kansas that I missed?

the comparison is apt to extreme muslims... not all extreme muslims are terrorists. that is another leap.

fundamentalism is fundamentalism... no?

Mister D
09-28-2013, 06:49 PM
the comparison is apt to extreme muslims... not all extreme muslims are terrorists. that is another leap.

fundamentalism is fundamentalism... no?

That's like saying violence is violence. That time I punched a kid in the face when I was 14 is the same as when Dan Pearl got his head sawed off. That is, no, Jill.

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 06:54 PM
The only difference is that for now ones don't resort to violence. But for example, in Mexico there have been killings by Christians. The problem is that the Extremism is bad, and they are extremist.

However, from my point of view, Christians and Islamic(the two Abrahammic that I know best) are nor really different. The difference is the power in society they have. And Christians have less power than Islamic.

So in December I have to take a trip to the middle east, want to come along and tell them that you don't believe in a God?

Here is what I find funny, we have groups that try to get any and all religious Statues, Crosses, Christmas Tree nativity scenes, pictures of religious figures removed from anywhere that their kids might see them?

But Christians are extreme for wanted Common Core Science which teaches theory and undisputed fact removed from the educations system

What about those that are scared if a group of students gather at the flag pool in the morning and pray are they extremist too?

countryboy
09-28-2013, 07:01 PM
The only difference is that for now ones don't resort to violence. But for example, in Mexico there have been killings by Christians. The problem is that the Extremism is bad, and they are extremist.

However, from my point of view, Christians and Islamic(the two Abrahammic that I know best) are nor really different. The difference is the power in society they have. And Christians have less power than Islamic.
For Now? Hey kilogram, when did you stop beating up old ladies and stealing their purses? See how that works?

But hey, there's no war on Christianity, nothing to see here folks, move along.

kilgram
09-28-2013, 07:02 PM
So in December I have to take a trip to the middle east, want to come along and tell them that you don't believe in a God?

Here is what I find funny, we have groups that try to get any and all religious Statues, Crosses, Christmas Tree nativity scenes, pictures of religious figures removed from anywhere that their kids might see them?

But Christians are extreme for wanted Common Core Science which teaches theory and undisputed fact removed from the educations system

What about those that are scared if a group of students gather at the flag pool in the morning and pray are they extremist too?
Are you inviting me to a trip? Yeah, I come with you. Only if you invite me ;) Even if is a country that I don't like. I enjoy travelling.

Common Core Science? What the fuck is that?

Yes, they are, like the Muslim ones. Praying is extremist. And if you want to pray, do it at home.

kilgram
09-28-2013, 07:04 PM
For Now? Hey kilogram, when did you stop beating up old ladies and stealing their purses? See how that works?

But hey, there's no war on Christianity, nothing to see here folks, move along.
I am anti-theist. I've always admitted this. I don't like any religion.

But my position is my position, and you cannot generalize from my position.

countryboy
09-28-2013, 07:04 PM
Yes, they are, like the Muslim ones. Praying is extremist. And if you want to pray, do it at home.
Ummm, no, we'll pray wherever we please. And you will have absolutely no say in the matter.

countryboy
09-28-2013, 07:05 PM
I am anti-theist. I've always admitted this. I don't like any religion.

But my position is my position.
That doesn't give you license to make shit up.

kilgram
09-28-2013, 07:10 PM
That doesn't give you license to make shit up.
What did I make up?

I can critizise anything. I've always done it, and always I will do. From the history and I've seen I see as harmful the religion, and more the extremist religious like the Opus Dei, Legionarios de Cristo(extremist sects of Catholicism), evangelism,...

I have less problems with moderate believers. But the extremist ones, sorry their ideas are ridiculous.

kilgram
09-28-2013, 07:11 PM
Ummm, no, we'll pray wherever we please. And you will have absolutely no say in the matter.
The same right have the Muslim ;) And if they need to occuppy a square to pray, they can do that. Or they have less rights than Christians?

countryboy
09-28-2013, 07:13 PM
What did I make up?

I can critizise anything. I've always done it, and always I will do. From the history and I've seen I see as harmful the religion, and more the extremist religious like the Opus Dei, Legionarios de Cristo(extremist sects of Catholicism), evangelism,...

I quoted the made up shit. If your comprehension is that bad, I cannot help you.

countryboy
09-28-2013, 07:14 PM
The same right have the Muslim ;) And if they need to occuppy a square to pray, they can do that. Or they have less rights than Christians?
Christians do not disrupt anyone while praying. Another lame analogy brought to you by your friendly neighborhood anarchocommie.

Codename Section
09-28-2013, 07:14 PM
Atheists can be just as "interesting". For example, in 2010 Justice Roberts was sued by atheist (neurotic Jew) Michael Newdow et al in order to prevent him from saying "so help me God" during Obama's inauguration. :rollseyes:

The irony is that guy is a minister in the CHURCH of Atheism. I don't want religion in schools and no kid does, either. At the same time they don't need to be a Gestapo like religion free zone.

kilgram
09-28-2013, 07:16 PM
I quoted the made up shit. If your comprehension is that bad, I cannot help you.
Where did you quote the made up shit? Because I only saw a quote to my comment saying that my ideas are only mine.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 07:20 PM
the comparison is apt to extreme muslims... not all extreme muslims are terrorists. that is another leap.

fundamentalism is fundamentalism... no?

No. The Muslim extremists are into violence. Christian extremists not so much. Maybe one or two will go off and do something crazy. But there is no logical comparison between the two.

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 07:21 PM
Are you inviting me to a trip? Yeah, I come with you. Only if you invite me ;) Even if is a country that I don't like. I enjoy travelling.

Common Core Science? What the fuck is that?

Yes, they are, like the Muslim ones. Praying is extremist. And if you want to pray, do it at home.

I will be providing security for some vip's. in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, I will have to hire you, but as long as you can learn to shoot straight, you should be OK!

PS the only thing I will require is that you tell them you don't believe in God and they should keep their religion to themselves. And I will not protect you from the consequences. Might be a good Idea to have your things in order before you go!

Now you don't want to see kids praying because it is extreme? But you want to be able to force your beliefs on everyone that does not believe like you, and that is OK? I would suggest that you are much closer to Muslim extremist than most Christians, You see it does not hurt you or your children at all if kids that believe in God get together and pray, something they are allowed to do under the constitution by the way.

http://www.corestandards.org/ELA-Literacy/RST/9-10 it is a bunch of libritard BS

kilgram
09-28-2013, 07:23 PM
No. The Muslim extremists are into violence. Christian extremists not so much. Maybe one or two will go off and do something crazy. But there is no logical comparison between the two.
Well, in Spain we had some Christian extremists who put bombs(that for good luck didn't work but they tried). The problem of the extremism is that they are dangerous.

Christianism for good luck is tamed and Islam not. But even a tamed Christianism have extremist individuals that if they could they would use violence.

As I say, the difference is that one is tamed and the other no. But in essence they are the same. For example, one of the reasons that they are different is that we live in secular countries. That is a big difference.

But, what do you think would be done if the Christianity recovered power and USA became a Christian country?

jillian
09-28-2013, 07:26 PM
I am anti-theist. I've always admitted this. I don't like any religion.

But my position is my position, and you cannot generalize from my position.

being anti-theist doesn't give you the right to treat all things as equal....

some of these things are not like the others.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 07:27 PM
Well, in Spain we had some Christian extremists who put bombs(that for good luck didn't work but they tried). The problem of the extremism is that they are dangerous.

Christianism for good luck is tamed and Islam not. But even a tamed Christianism have extremist individuals that if they could they would use violence.

As I say, the difference is that one is tamed and the other no. But in essence they are the same. For example, one of the reasons that they are different is that we live in secular countries. That is a big difference.

But, what do you think would be done if the Christianity recovered power and USA became a Christian country?

I don't think that it could happen. I also don't think that if it did happen, that there would be mass violence against those who didn't embrace Christianity.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 07:28 PM
Well, in Spain we had some Christian extremists who put bombs(that for good luck didn't work but they tried). The problem of the extremism is that they are dangerous.

Christianism for good luck is tamed and Islam not. But even a tamed Christianism have extremist individuals that if they could they would use violence.

As I say, the difference is that one is tamed and the other no. But in essence they are the same. For example, one of the reasons that they are different is that we live in secular countries. That is a big difference.

But, what do you think would be done if the Christianity recovered power and USA became a Christian country?

Who planted bombs in Spain, and why?

kilgram
09-28-2013, 07:30 PM
I will be providing security for some vip's. in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, I will have to hire you, but as long as you can learn to shoot straight, you should be OK!

PS the only thing I will require is that you tell them you don't believe in God and they should keep their religion to themselves. And I will not protect you from the consequences. Might be a good Idea to have your things in order before you go!

Now you don't want to see kids praying because it is extreme? But you want to be able to force your beliefs on everyone that does not believe like you, and that is OK? I would suggest that you are much closer to Muslim extremist than most Christians, You see it does not hurt you or your children at all if kids that believe in God get together and pray, something they are allowed to do under the constitution by the way.

http://www.corestandards.org/ELA-Literacy/RST/9-10 it is a bunch of libritard BS
I don't want to force to anyone. I am pointing you a thing. That is extremist. And if you want to pray, go to pray to a private school or whatever, but not to a school with public funds. Or if you want to pray do it individually. However, if I want to make fun of that, you will have to accept that. Because, mainly I find it funny and ridiculous, for Muslim or Christians that do that.

I repeat: I said that it was extremist.

However, I've never been in USA, but many religious things of USA are extremelly ridiculous for me.

Well, then I think that it will not be possible to go there, because I cannot learn to shoot.

kilgram
09-28-2013, 07:31 PM
Who planted bombs in Spain, and why?
Catholic groups, one time to an atheist humorist and in abortist hospitals.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 07:33 PM
Catholic groups, one time to an atheist humorist and in abortist hospitals.

How often did this occur?

kilgram
09-28-2013, 07:36 PM
How often did this occur?
Not too much. It was not really common, for good luck.

Yes the Islamic terrorism has greater incidence. But there are many reasons behind this:

- Poverty
- Inculture
In conclusion, nothing to lose.

If we raise poverty and inculture I bet you, that the violence would increase, in general and the religious one.

roadmaster
09-28-2013, 07:39 PM
And if you want to pray, go to pray to a private school or whatever, but not to a school with public funds. Or if you want to pray do it individually. However, if I want to make fun of that, you will have to accept that. Because, mainly I find it funny and ridiculous, for Muslim or Christians that do that.
Christians, Muslims and the Jewish ect children can pray where they want to. We pay taxes too and they have every right to pray. Those public funds come from us too.

jillian
09-28-2013, 07:41 PM
Christians, Muslims and the Jewish ect children can pray where they want to. We pay taxes too and they have every right to pray. Those public funds come from us too.

but you can't have organized prayer in school.

you know that, too.... which is correct.

countryboy
09-28-2013, 07:53 PM
Where did you quote the made up shit? Because I only saw a quote to my comment saying that my ideas are only mine.
I'm not playing your games kilogram. Not anymore.

roadmaster
09-28-2013, 07:55 PM
but you can't have organized prayer in school.

you know that, too.... which is correct. Yes you can as students, you just can't force anyone to participate.

jillian
09-28-2013, 07:58 PM
Not too much. It was not really common, for good luck.

Yes the Islamic terrorism has greater incidence. But there are many reasons behind this:

- Poverty
- Inculture
In conclusion, nothing to lose.

If we raise poverty and inculture I bet you, that the violence would increase, in general and the religious one.

really? funny... the 9/11 hijackers were all quite comfortable financially and were educated.

oops

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 08:15 PM
I don't want to force to anyone. I am pointing you a thing. That is extremist. And if you want to pray, go to pray to a private school or whatever, but not to a school with public funds. Or if you want to pray do it individually. However, if I want to make fun of that, you will have to accept that. Because, mainly I find it funny and ridiculous, for Muslim or Christians that do that.

I repeat: I said that it was extremist.

However, I've never been in USA, but many religious things of USA are extremelly ridiculous for me.

Well, then I think that it will not be possible to go there, because I cannot learn to shoot.

That's to bad the pay is great, but it really is best for you, because they would have killed you!

And you prove that you in fact are the extremist and totally intolerant of religion. Except fro your own of course, because I find that those that are totally intolerant of religions, have created the religion of evolution, even though they have to imagine their missing links.

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 08:17 PM
but you can't have organized prayer in school.

you know that, too.... which is correct.

Prayer can't be organized by the school or school staff. I always get a kick out of the Valedictorians that are told they can't mention God or say a prayer and do it anyway!

jillian
09-28-2013, 08:18 PM
Prayer can't be organized by the school or school staff. I always get a kick out of the Valedictorians that are told they can't mention God or say a prayer and do it anyway!

perhaps people who can't do without praying for seven hours should go to a parochial school

that didn't make me laugh, btw... i thought the valdictorian was a jerk.

i think most people who use forums like that to make a "statement" are jerks, though.

roadmaster
09-28-2013, 08:24 PM
perhaps people who can't do without praying for seven hours should go to a parochial school

that didn't make me laugh, btw... i thought the valdictorian was a jerk.

i think most people who use forums like that to make a "statement" are jerks, though.

Would you think a person who said "I thank my dad and dad for helping me" a jerk too? They have a right to say what they want to say, if you approve or not.

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 08:24 PM
perhaps people who can't do without praying for seven hours should go to a parochial school

that didn't make me laugh, btw... i thought the valdictorian was a jerk.

i think most people who use forums like that to make a "statement" are jerks, though.

It happens all the time, not just the ones that get the press. But it is their day too, and it is their constitutional right, So people that try and tell them that they can't exercise their constitutional right really piss me off!

And truth be told most of the people think it is great and just because a few extremists can't stand to here the word God, it makes them cry, I say tuff shit! Cowboy up!

shaarona
09-28-2013, 08:24 PM
perhaps people who can't do without praying for seven hours should go to a parochial school

that didn't make me laugh, btw... i thought the valdictorian was a jerk.

i think most people who use forums like that to make a "statement" are jerks, though.

Do you suppose that Kansas will write their own science textbooks? This is mind blowing.

Why don't they just take their kids to Sunday School and Church instead?

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 08:25 PM
Would you think a person who said "I thank my dad and dad for helping me" a jerk too? They have a right to say what they want to say, if you approve or not.

Now roadmaster, they are liberals and liberals can't be offended, everyone must accept their views, that is called tolerance

jillian
09-28-2013, 08:26 PM
Would you think a person who said "I thank my dad and dad for helping me" a jerk too? They have a right to say what they want to say, if you approve or not.

if he started saying a prayer to his dad i'd think he was a little nuts.

didn't jesus say to pray in private and not make a show of your religion?

roadmaster
09-28-2013, 08:29 PM
if he started saying a prayer to his dad i'd think he was a little nuts. He still has a right, just like everyone.

jillian
09-28-2013, 08:29 PM
He still has a right, just like everyone.

your "rights" are not unfettered.

and see my edit.

jillian
09-28-2013, 08:30 PM
Now roadmaster, they are liberals and liberals can't be offended, everyone must accept their views, that is called tolerance

funny from someone who thinks his so-called morality should be legislated.

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 08:41 PM
if he started saying a prayer to his dad i'd think he was a little nuts.

didn't jesus say to pray in private and not make a show of your religion?

He also said this?

http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-matthew-10-32-33.htm

So they are in fact using their earned platform to give thanks and acknowledge Jesus before men.

And there is nothing wrong with it! If others are offended then they should work really hard and make sure that a Christian does not get that platform.

For example if a valedictorian gets up and praises his intelligence on his highly evolved brain, should he not be able to say that? Of course he should, and if it offends Christians, tuff crap, it is his free speech as well!

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 08:43 PM
funny from someone who thinks his so-called morality should be legislated.

Nice try but I don't want my morality to be legislated, that would be you, I am for states rights, you want national control!

But it is a great tactic of the liberal nations, when loosing an argument? LIE! Now that that has not worked either, you would call me a racist or homophobe or gun toting bible thumper!

roadmaster
09-28-2013, 08:45 PM
gun toting bible thumper Hey that's me.:grin:

jillian
09-28-2013, 08:48 PM
He also said this?

http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-matthew-10-32-33.htm

So they are in fact using their earned platform to give thanks and acknowledge Jesus before men.

And there is nothing wrong with it! If others are offended then they should work really hard and make sure that a Christian does not get that platform.

For example if a valedictorian gets up and praises his intelligence on his highly evolved brain, should he not be able to say that? Of course he should, and if it offends Christians, tuff crap, it is his free speech as well!

an anonymous write almost a century after jesus' death said it...

jesus said don't be ostentatious in your worship because it is false.

i shouldn't have to tell you this.

and people will stop giving "earned platforms" to people who abuse those platforms.

shaarona
09-28-2013, 08:48 PM
if he started saying a prayer to his dad i'd think he was a little nuts.

didn't jesus say to pray in private and not make a show of your religion?

Yes. He did say that.

I went to an Episcopal school for two years and we had chapel every morning.. I loved it.. However, I also prayed in silence in school during my school years .. and still do.

I used to be involved with a community theater group.... and we held hands and prayed before every performance.. in silence.. as the players included Christians and Hindus.

I have a bigger problem with the science issue.. I would not have ever wanted my children taught creationism as science.

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 08:55 PM
an anonymous write almost a century after jesus' death said it...

jesus said don't be ostentatious in your worship because it is false.

i shouldn't have to tell you this.

and people will stop giving "earned platforms" to people who abuse those platforms.

First I would like to see the link to your statement.

Second now you are advocating taking away the right to be Valedictorian from Christians because they might Exercise their constitutional right o mention God?

How very Socialistic of you to discriminate against people of religion. It is one of the things that socialist have done in the past very well.

It is not to know that you would discriminate against people of faith

shaarona
09-28-2013, 08:59 PM
First I would like to see the link to your statement.

Second now you are advocating taking away the right to be Valedictorian from Christians because they might Exercise their constitutional right o mention God?

How very Socialistic of you to discriminate against people of religion. It is one of the things that socialist have done in the past very well.

It is not to know that you would discriminate against people of faith

Are we competing for victimhood?

Your young adult will not be witnessing on the job.. Why go there?

roadmaster
09-28-2013, 09:01 PM
an anonymous write almost a century after jesus' death said it...

jesus said don't be ostentatious in your worship because it is false.

i shouldn't have to tell you this.

and people will stop giving "earned platforms" to people who abuse those platforms.

First Jesus is alive and well. Second I do pray silent but will exercise my right to thank Him for what he has done for me. I do acknowledge Him in front of men.

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 09:02 PM
Are we competing for victimhood?

Your young adult will not be witnessing on the job.. Why go there?

Why would you not be witnessing on the job, I do it everyday?

But you are correct in your first statement, I am trying to get them to see that it should be totally up to the person as long as they are not advocating something that would harm others.

I don't understand where or when we thought we had the right to not be offended!

GrassrootsConservative
09-28-2013, 09:09 PM
While I think the anti-science standard lawsuit is silly, it is also silly to compare these strange Christians to Islamists (extremist Muslims). Or has there been a rash of people getting their heads sawed off with dull knifes in Kansas that I missed?

I think you misunderstood the analogy.

Christians who deny science are the same as the Muslims who deny science.

Same with all Religious people who deny science.

peoshi
09-28-2013, 09:11 PM
Atheists can be just as "interesting". For example, in 2010 Justice Roberts was sued by atheist (neurotic Jew) Michael Newdow et al in order to prevent him from saying "so help me God" during Obama's inauguration. :rollseyes:He also wants "In God We Trust" removed from money.


In God We Trust
In November 2005, Newdow announced he wants to have "In God We Trust" removed from U.S. coins and banknotes. In a November 14, 2005 interview with Fox News's Neil Cavuto, Newdow compared "In God We Trust" appearing on United States currency with racial segregation (specifically separate drinking fountains), saying, "How can you not compare those? What is the difference there? Both of them [whites and blacks] got equal water. They both had access. It was government saying that it's okay to separate out these two people on the basis of race. Here we're saying it's okay to separate two people on the basis of their religious beliefs."

Last time I checked atheist were able to spend money in the same places Christians do.

And I did not know Christianity was a race. :huh:

shaarona
09-28-2013, 09:13 PM
Why would you not be witnessing on the job, I do it everyday?

But you are correct in your first statement, I am trying to get them to see that it should be totally up to the person as long as they are not advocating something that would harm others.

I don't understand where or when we thought we had the right to not be offended!

Matthew 6: 6 KJV

But you, when you pray, enter into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret shall reward you openly.

shaarona
09-28-2013, 09:15 PM
Why would you not be witnessing on the job, I do it everyday?

But you are correct in your first statement, I am trying to get them to see that it should be totally up to the person as long as they are not advocating something that would harm others.

I don't understand where or when we thought we had the right to not be offended!

Are you serious? Isn't your behavior enough?

roadmaster
09-28-2013, 09:18 PM
Matthew 6: 6 KJV

But you, when you pray, enter into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret shall reward you openly. We know this but He also said spread the word. Now I am not like this. I show by example and if a person can't tell I am a Christian then I am not doing a good job. Myself I don't pray out loud, my husband did at the table or son's but I am also old fashion even though I was a strong woman. Each person is different.

shaarona
09-28-2013, 09:19 PM
We know this but He also said spread the word. Now I am not like this. I show by example and if a person can't tell I am a Christian then I am not doing a good job. Myself I don't pray out loud, my husband did at the table or son's but I am also old fashion even though I was a strong woman. Each person is different.

When someone asks you why you are peaceful and happy .. tell them.

roadmaster
09-28-2013, 09:21 PM
When someone asks you why you are peaceful and happy .. tell them.

I will but they have to ask. I am not a big talker either but love people.

sky dancer
09-28-2013, 09:22 PM
My goodness. We sure better not adopt science standards in Kansas.

zelmo1234
09-28-2013, 09:23 PM
Matthew 6: 6 KJV

But you, when you pray, enter into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret shall reward you openly.

Yes I know this I was referring to her statement on know acknowledging your faith in public!

And I even struggle with bowing my head in a restaurant but still do it! Giving thanks publicly is also part of what people of faith are called to do. think about Jesus, he certainly did to hide his ministry.

And Jesus himself prayed to the father publicly on several occasions. So if you look at it in context he was talking about people that pray in public to set themselves apart.

And I believe it is a personnel choice

sky dancer
09-28-2013, 09:30 PM
I like people who are low key about their religion. Quiet about it.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 09:44 PM
I think you misunderstood the analogy.

Christians who deny science are the same as the Muslims who deny science.

Same with all Religious people who deny science.

Except the Christians don't commit mass murder.

sky dancer
09-28-2013, 09:47 PM
Except the Christians don't commit mass murder.

You mean individual Christians don't commit mass murder? Or Christians as a group never murder?

All human beings have the potential for committing murder. Under the right circumstances, it can happen.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 09:51 PM
You mean individual Christians don't commit mass murder? Or Christians as a group never murder?

Compare militant Islam to Christians. That should answer your question.

sky dancer
09-28-2013, 09:52 PM
Compare militant Islam to Christians. That should answer your question.

Are you saying there have never been militant Christians in history?

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 09:57 PM
Are you saying there have never been militant Christians in history?

Of course not.

sky dancer
09-28-2013, 09:58 PM
Of course not.
I rest my case.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 09:59 PM
I rest my case.

But we are talking about today.....

sky dancer
09-28-2013, 10:00 PM
But we are talking about today.....

The capacity for good and evil exists in every human being today regardless of what religion they identify with.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 10:07 PM
The capacity for good and evil exists in every human being today regardless of what religion they identify with.
And only one religious group is currently acting as mass murderers.

sky dancer
09-28-2013, 10:08 PM
And only one religious group is currently acting as mass murderers.

That is absolutely untrue. Plenty of religious groups today send their adherents to war to kill many other human beings.
Nearly every religious group thinks god is on their side when they go to war. War is mass murder.

Peter1469
09-28-2013, 10:22 PM
That is absolutely untrue. Plenty of religious groups today send their adherents to war to kill many other human beings.
Nearly every religious group thinks god is on their side when they go to war. War is mass murder.

That is simply incorrect. If you were to spend the money to purchase the encyclopedia of war you would understand that very few wars were based on religion.

Guerilla
09-28-2013, 11:29 PM
And only one religious group is currently acting as mass murderers.

But I don't think they are killing because of their religion. I think a number of other factors made them susceptible to the possibility of this extremism. You point out that their have been militant Christians in the past but most Christians no longer cite their religion as reason for violence today.

But what else has changed peter? Most christians also had an industrial revolution, enlightenments, leading in science and technology; become secular nations. They live in a completely different world. I believe it is an environment that makes people more violent. You look at the third world, and you see lots of violence. The only difference is that in really religious third world nations, the people decide to channel their anger through religion. This is why we are seeing the Buddists in Myanmar commit genocide against the minority of muslims. (http://www.thefrontierpost.com/article/174625/)Third world, religious place also.

You could say much of Medieval Europe lived in todays third world conditions. So we have Third world Christians who were much more violent and channeled their violence through religion, which happen to be a big part of their life.

Less religious third world nations of the present are just violent.. Take away the middle easts (or anywhere in the third worlds) religion, and they are still violent, just no religious reason to output it.

RECAP:

Third world Muslims. Third world Christians. Third world Buddhists. All violent. All channel violence through religion. Common denominator-third world. Therefore third world conditions make you more susceptible to violence as a solution.

Mr Happy
09-28-2013, 11:46 PM
And only one religious group is currently acting as mass murderers.

It would be more correct to say a particular branch of that group....

ChoppedLiver
09-29-2013, 12:30 AM
That is absolutely untrue. Plenty of religious groups today send their adherents to war to kill many other human beings.
Nearly every religious group thinks god is on their side when they go to war. War is mass murder.

This country going to war in the past allows you the privilege of knowing and posting in English.

:cool:

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 12:56 AM
He also wants "In God We Trust" removed from money.

So it should be. That saying on money is only since the 1950s no?

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 12:57 AM
This country going to war in the past allows you the privilege of knowing and posting in English.

:cool:

And?

peoshi
09-29-2013, 01:00 AM
You mean individual Christians don't commit mass murder? Or Christians as a group never murder?

All human beings have the potential for committing murder. Under the right circumstances, it can happen. Can you name any recent mass killings committed in the name of Christianity?
Can you name any christian groups on a terror watch list in the US?
Can you name any Muslim country where Christians are not persecuted for their beliefs?

Are there christian groups like al-quada, Taliban,al-shabab,etc. waging war against anyone who disagrees with them worldwide...even different sects of their own religion?

All human beings have the potential to commit any atrocity humans are capable of...so what is your point?

peoshi
09-29-2013, 01:07 AM
So it should be. That saying on money is only since the 1950s no?Why should it,happy?

Does the word "God" burn the skin of an atheist...or make him ill? Do you think the feelings of an atheist should take precedence over others?

Guerilla
09-29-2013, 01:20 AM
Why should it,happy?

Does the word "God" burn the skin of an atheist...or make him ill? Do you think the feelings of an atheist should take precedence over others?

It shows bias toward a certain belief system. Why would you want that. Why even have it their? Do Buddhists or muslims or anyone else get to make reference of their religion on the dollar? No. Why can't they? It's all stupid.

Just take the saying off.

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 01:30 AM
Why should it,happy?

Does the word "God" burn the skin of an atheist...or make him ill? Do you think the feelings of an atheist should take precedence over others?

So if there was a vote to put "In Allah we trust" you wouldn't have a problem? How about "in charlie mason we trust". Does that burn the skin of anybody? No...

peoshi
09-29-2013, 01:42 AM
It shows bias toward a certain belief system. Why would you want that. Why even have it their? Do Buddhists or muslims or anyone else get to make reference of their religion on the dollar? No. Why can't they? It's all stupid.

Just take the saying off.Why...does it bother you?

Ever heard of sharia law? Muslims rule their people based on religion,genius.

Why do you care what a nickel says on it if it's still worth 5 cents?

Do you read your money before you pay?

peoshi
09-29-2013, 01:45 AM
So if there was a vote to put "In Allah we trust" you wouldn't have a problem? How about "in charlie mason we trust". Does that burn the skin of anybody? No...Really, happy?

You can do better than that!

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 01:50 AM
Why...does it bother you?

Ever heard of sharia law? Muslims rule their people based on religion,genius.

Why do you care what a nickel says on it if it's still worth 5 cents?

Do you read your money before you pay?

Let me ask you this.... What if there was a predominately Muslim borough in one of your big cities. How would you feel if they put a plaque on the local town hall stating In Allah We Trust.... What would it mean to you.

That aside, In God We Trust is recent 1950s addition to your money. How about you just change it to the way it was and nobody is offended. Atheists aren't because it is no longer there, and God lovers aren't because money has nothing to do with religion anyway...well it shouldn't. And they survived the best part of 180 years without such a saying on US money.

Why is it important to you that it stays on? If it's not important to you, why do you care?

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 02:06 AM
It shows bias toward a certain belief system. Why would you want that. Why even have it their? Do Buddhists or muslims or anyone else get to make reference of their religion on the dollar? No. Why can't they? It's all stupid.

Just take the saying off.

It says God, it does not say Christian God? So why would they be offended?

And where does is say that anyone has the right not to be offended.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 02:08 AM
So if there was a vote to put "In Allah we trust" you wouldn't have a problem? How about "in charlie mason we trust". Does that burn the skin of anybody? No...

Allah? Is God? I don't think you will find any Muslims that are offended by the saying, And I happen to think that you do not have the right to not be offended.

peoshi
09-29-2013, 02:10 AM
Let me ask you this.... What if there was a predominately Muslim borough in one of your big cities. How would you feel if they put a plaque on the local town hall stating In Allah We Trust.... What would it mean to you.

That aside, In God We Trust is recent 1950s addition to your money. How about you just change it to the way it was and nobody is offended. Atheists aren't because it is no longer there, and God lovers aren't because money has nothing to do with religion anyway...well it shouldn't. And they survived the best part of 180 years without such a saying on US money.

Why is it important to you that it stays on? If it's not important to you, why do you care?Why do you think it is important to me that it stays on?Do you think the mint should spend tax dollars(which have no effect on you) to change currency stamps to satisfy Michael Newdow?

The better question would be why do you care,happy?

This occurred before you were born in a country you don't live in.

GrassrootsConservative
09-29-2013, 02:12 AM
It says God, it does not say Christian God? So why would they be offended?

And where does is say that anyone has the right not to be offended.

Some people know better than to believe in any God.

I must say my money would look a lot better with that saying taken off of it.

How about "In Ourselves We Trust," or is perseverance not a common theme for America anymore? Not without some 'God?'

Pathetic. If we can't make it day to day without printing "In God We Trust" on all our money, we as a people are doomed.

I trust myself first and my common man second. Never any 'God' and never the Government.

They're both one in the same, a fucking illusion.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 02:12 AM
Peter I don't think you are going to get through to our Liberal friends, They have the power to reason with people so they will not hate us!

and you will never convince them that people would kill them in the name of religion, and Until it happens they will never understand that those that believe in NO God are the biggest infidels, and must of course be killed first!

I think that the relative safety of the past 60 years has made them soft

GrassrootsConservative
09-29-2013, 02:25 AM
Peter I don't think you are going to get through to our Liberal friends, They have the power to reason with people so they will not hate us!

and you will never convince them that people would kill them in the name of religion, and Until it happens they will never understand that those that believe in NO God are the biggest infidels, and must of course be killed first!

I think that the relative safety of the past 60 years has made them soft

Ah. And the true mentality of the Christian people comes to the surface.

I'm sure anyone up at this hour is deeply shocked. Not. :rollseyes:

We who do not believe in any 'God' may have bad moments, but we would never worship a being that lets his own son die on a cross after hours of torment.

Not that your 'messiah' deserved anything less.

peoshi
09-29-2013, 02:26 AM
Some people know better than to believe in any God.

I must say my money would look a lot better with that saying taken off of it.

How about "In Ourselves We Trust," or is perseverance not a common theme for America anymore? Not without some 'God?'

Pathetic. If we can't make it day to day without printing "In God We Trust" on all our money, we as a people are doomed.

I trust myself first and my common man second. Never any 'God' and never the Government.

They're both one in the same, a fucking illusion.I trust myself first as well... that is why I don't concern myself with petty shit like what is on currency, or what others believe as long as it does not threaten me.

Can someone explain to me how having the word "God" on currency infringes on the rights of others?

I did not know you had the right to not be offended, regardless of your beliefs.

GrassrootsConservative
09-29-2013, 02:30 AM
I trust myself first as well... that is why I don't concern myself with petty shit like what is on currency, or what others believe as long as it does not threaten me.

Can someone explain to me how having the word "God" on currency infringes on the rights of others?

I did not know you had the right to not be offended, regardless of your beliefs.

Who said it infringes on the rights of others?

Who said anyone had a right to not be offended?

All I'm saying is it looks pretty dumb for a country that is supposed to be based on "freedom" to credit all their currency and give their trust to a mythological unicorn in the sky.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 02:35 AM
Ah. And the true mentality of the Christian people comes to the surface.

I'm sure anyone up at this hour is deeply shocked. Not. :rollseyes:

We who do not believe in any 'God' may have bad moments, but we would never worship a being that lets his own son die on a cross after hours of torment.

Not that your 'messiah' deserved anything less.

Well first when your wife gets called to deliver a Baby it tends to wake you up, and I tend not to fall right back to sleep, what is your excuse. Infidel? :)

I was in fact pointing out something that is true, but has apparently hit a nerve, sorry about that, but as a Christian I am told not to judge you, and that is the difference in the religion. Wanting to be able to practice my faith, is not in fact forcing you to practice it as well. IS IT?

And of course I am grateful for the sacrifice that happened on the cross, as it lets a sinner like me be forgiven, and I have much to be forgiven, So the only thing that I can see in the 2 post is your hate of Christians coming through, and for that I feel sorry for you!

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 02:37 AM
Who said it infringes on the rights of others?

Who said anyone had a right to not be offended?

All I'm saying is it looks pretty dumb for a country that is supposed to be based on "freedom" to credit all their currency and give their trust to a mythological unicorn in the sky.

Well when you are 17 trillion in Debt, apparently you have to trust in something.

But I would be willing to the statement. so it reads. In God we trust, All others must pay cash? If that helps you out.

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 02:40 AM
Why do you think it is important to me that it stays on?Do you think the mint should spend tax dollars(which have no effect on you) to change currency stamps to satisfy Michael Newdow?

The better question would be why do you care,happy?

This occurred before you were born in a country you don't live in.

I have been on messageboards for the best part of 12 years, most of them have Americans on them, and there is a always one, ALWAYS ONE, who goes on about me not being American. As if that has anything to do with a debate. This is a forum to exchange ideas and debate your point of view on a subject. Not discuss the nationality of someone. That aside, if Obama farts it effects what happens in the rest of the world. Another aside, is that if I were to use your 'rules' I assume there are no posts on this board by you that mention any other country outside your borders. You have made no posts that mention Egypt, Libya, Israel, Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan?

It also shows how weak your debating skills are if that is all you have.

Chloe
09-29-2013, 02:42 AM
I trust myself first as well... that is why I don't concern myself with petty shit like what is on currency, or what others believe as long as it does not threaten me.

Can someone explain to me how having the word "God" on currency infringes on the rights of others?

I did not know you had the right to not be offended, regardless of your beliefs.

It's just basically an unnecessary thing to have on the currency of a secular nation in my opinion regardless of the intent. I realize that the majority of the country believes in God and that most people really don't mind it on there or care that it is on there, but really at the end of the day it's not necessary for transactions or belief. It's not even necessary for people who believe in God to have it on money since it doesn't alter or change their belief. If it is so trivial and so meaningless to the daily lives of Americans then why go out of our way to offend or make other people uncomfortable by having it on money?

FYI I do find it kind of funny that a lot of Christians are the most hardened defenders of the quote on money since i'm pretty sure Jesus was against materialistic things like that, and if Jesus is God to them it's kind of ironic to me that they would want his name plastered on cash. Just saying.

peoshi
09-29-2013, 02:42 AM
Who said it infringes on the rights of others?

Who said anyone had a right to not be offended?

All I'm saying is it looks pretty dumb for a country that is supposed to be based on "freedom" to credit all their currency and give their trust to a mythological unicorn in the sky.Sounds like it offends you.

Why? Do think your atheism should carry more weight than religion?

Given our current government the last thing I would be worried about is looking dumb for what is stamped on a quarter.

GrassrootsConservative
09-29-2013, 02:43 AM
Well first when your wife gets called to deliver a Baby it tends to wake you up, and I tend not to fall right back to sleep, what is your excuse. Infidel? :)

I was in fact pointing out something that is true, but has apparently hit a nerve, sorry about that, but as a Christian I am told not to judge you, and that is the difference in the religion. Wanting to be able to practice my faith, is not in fact forcing you to practice it as well. IS IT?

And of course I am grateful for the sacrifice that happened on the cross, as it lets a sinner like me be forgiven, and I have much to be forgiven, So the only thing that I can see in the 2 post is your hate of Christians coming through, and for that I feel sorry for you!

My excuse for what? I'm up late because this is the time when I am up, it's the usual for me because I work the dinner shift at my restaurant and like time to relax after work.

I never sad you were forcing me to practice your beliefs/religion at all. I also never said you were judging me, but you were. Saying I am the infidel is the biggest judgement you could make upon me.

I am not hateful of Christians, I have already forgiven your comment about me being the infidel, but forgetting will take a little longer. It is I who is sorry for you. You need to either make stuff up about what I have said or shift into reverse on your own statements to make yourself look better.

If you're lacking sleep I can understand, but the fact that you can post such lengthy messages tells me you're probably thinking pretty coherently right now, zelmo.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 02:45 AM
Some people know better than to believe in any God.

I must say my money would look a lot better with that saying taken off of it.

How about "In Ourselves We Trust," or is perseverance not a common theme for America anymore? Not without some 'God?'

Pathetic. If we can't make it day to day without printing "In God We Trust" on all our money, we as a people are doomed.

I trust myself first and my common man second. Never any 'God' and never the Government.

They're both one in the same, a fucking illusion.

Man you need to let go of the hate? It has you all worked up?

You see I have to deal with a lot of things that offend be. While I believe that evolution has it place as a theory, I am offended that it is taught as fact, until they can at least come up with some of those missing link things.

I happen to be offended as you are that we kill thousands of babies everyday.

I am not a fan of gay marriage, and the fact that we as a society blame everything we do wrong on something other than ourselves.

The difference is, that I don't want to have it removed from my sight because I am offended? If you are willing, you might want to read a book called A Case for Christ, It may provide some insight into the Christian Mindset of people like me.

And I do agree that there are Christians that would have their belief forced on others. I am not one. I believe that you must come to the Cross of your own free will!

GrassrootsConservative
09-29-2013, 02:45 AM
It's just basically an unnecessary thing to have on the currency of a secular nation in my opinion regardless of the intent. I realize that the majority of the country believes in God and that most people really don't mind it on there or care that it is on there, but really at the end of the day it's not necessary for transactions or belief. It's not even necessary for people who believe in God to have it on money since it doesn't alter or change their belief. If it is so trivial and so meaningless to the daily lives of Americans then why go out of our way to offend or make other people uncomfortable by having it on money?

FYI I do find it kind of funny that a lot of Christians are the most hardened defenders of the quote on money since i'm pretty sure Jesus was against materialistic things like that, and if Jesus is God to them it's kind of ironic to me that they would want his name plastered on cash. Just saying.

Yes Christians are guilty of a great list of contradictions, the longest of which is the bible.

peoshi
09-29-2013, 02:47 AM
I have been on messageboards for the best part of 12 years, most of them have Americans on them, and there is a always one, ALWAYS ONE, who goes on about me not being American. As if that has anything to do with a debate. This is a forum to exchange ideas and debate your point of view on a subject. Not discuss the nationality of someone. That aside, if Obama farts it effects what happens in the rest of the world. Another aside, is that if I were to use your 'rules' I assume there are no posts on this board by you that mention any other country outside your borders. You have made no posts that mention Egypt, Libya, Israel, Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan?

It also shows how weak your debating skills are if that is all you have.So explain how words on US currency affects you in New Zealand,happy?

Chloe
09-29-2013, 02:51 AM
Yes Christians are guilty of a great list of contradictions, the longest of which is the bible.

I don't have a problem with Christians, most of my friends are Christians, but to me it's a contradictory statement from a government point of view as well as a Christian point of view, if I can go that far, in my opinion. My personal opinion is that it's unnecessary to have a reference like that on currency. It doesn't offend me in any way but I just see it as unnecessary based on how our government is supposed to be secular in nature.

Chloe
09-29-2013, 02:52 AM
So explain how words on US currency affects you in New Zealand,happy?

It doesn't, but he is allowed to have an opinion on it wouldn't you agree? It doesn't affect you or me either living in this country, but because of that fact it shouldn't matter if the words were taken off our currency for any number of reasons.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 02:52 AM
My excuse for what? I'm up late because this is the time when I am up, it's the usual for me because I work the dinner shift at my restaurant and like time to relax after work.

I never sad you were forcing me to practice your beliefs/religion at all. I also never said you were judging me, but you were. Saying I am the infidel is the biggest judgement you could make upon me.

I am not hateful of Christians, I have already forgiven your comment about me being the infidel, but forgetting will take a little longer. It is I who is sorry for you. You need to either make stuff up about what I have said or shift into reverse on your own statements to make yourself look better.

If you're lacking sleep I can understand, but the fact that you can post such lengthy messages tells me you're probably thinking pretty coherently right now, zelmo.

I was in fact not even talking to you, but to Peter about his posts, both of us have spent a little time in the middle east and have a knowledge base to pull from.

The fact remains that if the radical Muslims where to get their way, The first Infidels in there mindset to be removed and Yes I do mean Killed would be the none believers! Sorry if that is offensive to you, I was not calling you an infidel in person. As a Christian I am told to witness to non believers, Not kill them.

Now what I am a little confused by is why a non believer would be bothered by the word Infidel? I would think that it would be a badge of honor?

PS I know nothing about the Restaurant Business, so I would fail miserably if I tried it, But I have always thought it would be cool to own a Restaurant! And I can understand that winding down thing!

GrassrootsConservative
09-29-2013, 02:53 AM
Sounds like it offends you.

Why? Do think your atheism should carry more weight than religion?

Given our current government the last thing I would be worried about is looking dumb for what is stamped on a quarter.

This whole post is full of lies and assumptions.

It doesn't offend me, I'm just pointing out the blatant stupidity in that phrase being there. Why do you feel the need to make that up based on how it "sounds"?

I'm not an atheist. And no, I don't think my beliefs should carry more weight than religion. But this part is still a lie due to me not being an atheist.

And I wasn't talking about quarters. I'm talking about bills. Paper money that is actually worth something. Who the hell cares about quarters? Again, completely made up.

Either address my points or go find another thread to fill with your trash.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 02:53 AM
It doesn't, but he is allowed to have an opinion on it wouldn't you agree? It doesn't affect you or me either living in this country, but because of that fact it shouldn't matter if the words were taken off our currency for any number of reasons.

Should it matter if the words stay on?

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 02:54 AM
So explain how words on US currency affects you in New Zealand,happy?

It doesn't. We are discussing the idea of the words on the currency. And that debate is universal.

And if all you got out of my post was how it affects NZ, then that certainly explains many things...

And answer my question. have you made any posts with regard to any other countries...

Chloe
09-29-2013, 02:58 AM
Should it matter if the words stay on?

There is a better argument and justification for it to be removed than to stay on, all things considered. I personally am not all that offended by it since I don't even really notice it anyway, but from a governmental/treasury point of view, which is what creates our currency, it is inappropriate and unnecessary in my opinion to endorse God. Plus I bring up the point again that from a religious point of view having God tied to cash is kind of sketchy to me, but that's just my thought.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 02:58 AM
It's just basically an unnecessary thing to have on the currency of a secular nation in my opinion regardless of the intent. I realize that the majority of the country believes in God and that most people really don't mind it on there or care that it is on there, but really at the end of the day it's not necessary for transactions or belief. It's not even necessary for people who believe in God to have it on money since it doesn't alter or change their belief. If it is so trivial and so meaningless to the daily lives of Americans then why go out of our way to offend or make other people uncomfortable by having it on money?

FYI I do find it kind of funny that a lot of Christians are the most hardened defenders of the quote on money since i'm pretty sure Jesus was against materialistic things like that, and if Jesus is God to them it's kind of ironic to me that they would want his name plastered on cash. Just saying.

I would be willing to take it off if things like nativity scenes and the words Merry Christmas could return to the public arena. For example if a town wanted to have a Nativity scene on the dreaded public property, they would not be attacked by those that do not believe.

I still think it should say in God we Trust, all others must pay cash? but that is just me.

Chloe
09-29-2013, 03:02 AM
I would be willing to take it off if things like nativity scenes and the words Merry Christmas could return to the public arena. For example if a town wanted to have a Nativity scene on the dreaded public property, they would not be attacked by those that do not believe.

I still think it should say in God we Trust, all others must pay cash? but that is just me.

I like looking at Christmas lights. My friends and I make it a point to drive around looking at neighborhoods every year because it's pretty, but to that point what's so hard about celebrating the holiday at home, in the front of a church, and so on, but not in a shared non-religious public park? But this is kind of off topic I think, and i'm sure in a couple of months this topic will be discussed thoroughly :)

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 03:07 AM
There is a better argument and justification for it to be removed than to stay on, all things considered. I personally am not all that offended by it since I don't even really notice it anyway, but from a governmental/treasury point of view, which is what creates our currency, it is inappropriate and unnecessary in my opinion to endorse God. Plus I bring up the point again that from a religious point of view having God tied to cash is kind of sketchy to me, but that's just my thought.

I think that you last part is because you have a little bit of confusion on God and money. Solomon was the richest man that ever lived. King David, a man after Gods own Heart, was not on Welfare either.

What the Bible talks about is the love of money. being the root of all evil, Jesus when asked about taxes, asked whose picture was on the coin, Ceasers at the time and tells his followers to give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's and unto God what is Gods

In my lifetime I have watched a few people that are highly offended by anything religious force there will on the rest of the people. I do not feel that I have a right to force anyone to accept my views but would not demand that they be prevented from sharing theirs in a public arena either.

So if the majority of the people don't care? and they like it there? Don't we have bigger fish to fry, and also the Federal Reserve, is not part of the Government? or so we are told????

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 03:09 AM
I like looking at Christmas lights. My friends and I make it a point to drive around looking at neighborhoods every year because it's pretty, but to that point what's so hard about celebrating the holiday at home, in the front of a church, and so on, but not in a shared non-religious public park? But this is kind of off topic I think, and i'm sure in a couple of months this topic will be discussed thoroughly :)

I think that your are right! I am starting to get sleepy again Good Night Kid You never cease to amaze me :)

Chloe
09-29-2013, 03:11 AM
I think that you last part is because you have a little bit of confusion on God and money. Solomon was the richest man that ever lived. King David, a man after Gods own Heart, was not on Welfare either.

What the Bible talks about is the love of money. being the root of all evil, Jesus when asked about taxes, asked whose picture was on the coin, Ceasers at the time and tells his followers to give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's and unto God what is Gods

In my lifetime I have watched a few people that are highly offended by anything religious force there will on the rest of the people. I do not feel that I have a right to force anyone to accept my views but would not demand that they be prevented from sharing theirs in a public arena either.

So if the majority of the people don't care? and they like it there? Don't we have bigger fish to fry, and also the Federal Reserve, is not part of the Government? or so we are told????

I don't think people "like" it there but they just simply don't care or notice that it's there...which if you think about it can be dangerous too. Apathy can cause a lot of things to happen that goes contrary to what the country is supposed to be about.

FYI i'm not talking about forcing people to accept my views or other people's views, but having "in God we trust" on a currency that people MUST use in order to survive in this country is basically forcing people to at least carry that point of view in my opinion, which is wrong in a secular nation (not people, but nation).

Chloe
09-29-2013, 03:12 AM
I think that your are right! I am starting to get sleepy again Good Night Kid You never cease to amaze me :)

goodnight as well, i am about to go to bed too

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 03:14 AM
So if the majority of the people don't care? and they like it there? Don't we have bigger fish to fry, and also the Federal Reserve, is not part of the Government? or so we are told????

Who knows how many people care. And if it's no big deal as you say, then just take it off...and nobody is offended

peoshi
09-29-2013, 03:22 AM
This whole post is full of lies and assumptions.

It doesn't offend me, I'm just pointing out the blatant stupidity in that phrase being there. Why do you feel the need to make that up based on how it "sounds"?

I'm not an atheist. And no, I don't think my beliefs should carry more weight than religion. But this part is still a lie due to me not being an atheist.

And I wasn't talking about quarters. I'm talking about bills. Paper money that is actually worth something. Who the hell cares about quarters? Again, completely made up.

Either address my points or go find another thread to fill with your trash.Oh please, you're not an atheist?


Some people know better than to believe in any God.


Never any 'God' and never the Government.

They're both one in the same, a fucking illusion.




All I'm saying is it looks pretty dumb for a country that is supposed to be based on "freedom" to credit all their currency and give their trust to a mythological unicorn in the sky.But I'm lying? :rollseyes:

peoshi
09-29-2013, 03:27 AM
It doesn't. We are discussing the idea of the words on the currency. And that debate is universal.

And if all you got out of my post was how it affects NZ, then that certainly explains many things...

And answer my question. have you made any posts with regard to any other countries...Can you name any other countries who have whined about words on US currency?

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 03:34 AM
Can you name any other countries who have whined about words on US currency?

Already answered enough of your questions. I note you haven't answered any of mine...

GrassrootsConservative
09-29-2013, 03:37 AM
Oh please, you're not an atheist?






But I'm lying? :rollseyes:

"Atheist" is a religious term. I refuse religious labels.

I am a philosophical being. I am a nihilist.

peoshi
09-29-2013, 03:47 AM
Already answered enough of your questions. I note you haven't answered any of mine...You haven't answered anything,happy...can you name any citizen of the countries you mentioned posting here whining about words on foreign currency?

peoshi
09-29-2013, 03:54 AM
"Atheist" is a religious term. I refuse religious labels.

I am a philosophical being. I am a nihilist.Good for you...but atheism is a disbelief in God, regardless of what you prefer to call yourself.

atheist  
Use Atheist in a sentence
a·the·ist [ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 04:02 AM
You haven't answered anything,happy...can you name any citizen of the countries you mentioned posting here whining about words on foreign currency?

Nope, I've answered a couple of your questions, but you refuse to answer mine. Not surprised at all....

GrassrootsConservative
09-29-2013, 04:10 AM
Good for you...but atheism is a disbelief in God, regardless of what you prefer to call yourself.

atheist  
Use Atheist in a sentence
a·the·ist [ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Yeah, I shouldn't have expected you to understand something like that. My mistake.

kilgram
09-29-2013, 04:40 AM
That's to bad the pay is great, but it really is best for you, because they would have killed you!

And you prove that you in fact are the extremist and totally intolerant of religion. Except fro your own of course, because I find that those that are totally intolerant of religions, have created the religion of evolution, even though they have to imagine their missing links.
Evolution is not religion is science.

I don't want to know anything of murderers. And yes, your job is killing, it is murder. I don't want to know anything about that.

kilgram
09-29-2013, 04:41 AM
Now roadmaster, they are liberals and liberals can't be offended, everyone must accept their views, that is called tolerance
LOL. It is only my answer to.

By the way, the only ones that get offended are the religious folks.

kilgram
09-29-2013, 04:43 AM
Nice try but I don't want my morality to be legislated, that would be you, I am for states rights, you want national control!

But it is a great tactic of the liberal nations, when loosing an argument? LIE! Now that that has not worked either, you would call me a racist or homophobe or gun toting bible thumper!
Are you sure that you don't want morality legislated? ANd what the fuck is the difference of legislating from a state level or national. It is statism.

jillian
09-29-2013, 04:55 AM
Nice try but I don't want my morality to be legislated, that would be you, I am for states rights, you want national control!

But it is a great tactic of the liberal nations, when loosing an argument? LIE! Now that that has not worked either, you would call me a racist or homophobe or gun toting bible thumper!

but your states don't get to take away rights protected by the federal government. so stop wanting your STATES TO LEGISLATE MORALITY. saying you don't want the government to legislate some rightwing moralistic theocratic fantasy is still wanting the government to legislate morality. you don't live in a theocracy.

i'm not the one calling you names... that would be you.... per usual

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 07:01 AM
Evolution is not religion is science.

I don't want to know anything of murderers. And yes, your job is killing, it is murder. I don't want to know anything about that.

I agree that evolution is a science, but in the USA it is not taught like any other science, it is taught from the standpoint that it must be true and then they dodge everything that science can't explain and say well we know that it is true.

Rather than collecting evidence and trying to prove the theory

And you will be happy to know that My job is actually protecting people, not killing people I an a security provider, not a Contractor, there is a difference.

Now if someone wants to harm the people that I have to protect, I will stop that from happening. But I do not seek to harm anyone.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 07:08 AM
LOL. It is only my answer to.

By the way, the only ones that get offended are the religious folks.

Really?

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/08/28/atheist-group-threatens-to-sue-if-grossly-offensive-christian-cross-isnt-removed-from-911-memorial/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/08/03/atheists-continue-threats-over-unconstitutional-ri-firehouse-cross-wwii-memorial-but-city-isnt-backing-down/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/11/21/atheists-demand-marines-remove-cross-intended-to-commemorate-the-lives-of-fallen-u-s-soldiers/

http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/2013/01/08/atheist-group-threatens-to-sue-ohio-school-for-jesus-painting/

Shall I continue? They in this country believe that they have a right to not be offended?

Alyosha
09-29-2013, 07:12 AM
If you want religion in school go to a Catholic school or Baptist school or home school. What's the problem?

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 07:12 AM
but your states don't get to take away rights protected by the federal government. so stop wanting your STATES TO LEGISLATE MORALITY. saying you don't want the government to legislate some rightwing moralistic theocratic fantasy is still wanting the government to legislate morality. you don't live in a theocracy.

i'm not the one calling you names... that would be you.... per usual

See I am a tenth amendment kind of guy and don't think that the federal government has standing in a lot of issues.

We did get some pull back on the commerce clause, which is a good thing, And what you want is the federal government legislating YOUR morality and forcing it on the states. There is no doubt about that.

Where if it is left to the states some will have laws that you like and some will have laws that I like, and you can live where you wish to live?

I see more freedom in that!

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 07:15 AM
If you want religion in school go to a Catholic school or Baptist school or home school. What's the problem?

I would agree with you 100%

Here is my issue, if a student wants to say a prayer, or get together with others and pray, why should they be stopped in a public school?

If a teachers wants to say Merry Christmas, Happy Easter? to the class, why should that be an issue.

I really don't want the teaching religion, other than that there are religions. but I don't like people being ban from practicing freedom of religion and speech

Does that make any sense?

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 07:18 AM
Are you sure that you don't want morality legislated? ANd what the fuck is the difference of legislating from a state level or national. It is statism.

The constitution allows states to do things that the federal government is not allowed to do.

All countries legislate morality to an extent. In the USA you would have very diverse laws, and people could be free to find those that best suit their beliefs.

Alyosha
09-29-2013, 07:19 AM
I would agree with you 100%

Here is my issue, if a student wants to say a prayer, or get together with others and pray, why should they be stopped in a public school?

They should not. If that happens then you can call the Rutherford Institute or the ACLU. They've both defended children's rights to spontaneous prayer (free speech) in school. Just not school sanctioned or endorsed prayer.




If a teachers wants to say Merry Christmas, Happy Easter? to the class, why should that be an issue.


It shouldn't. See above.



I really don't want the teaching religion, other than that there are religions. but I don't like people being ban from practicing freedom of religion and speech


I think things have gone too far in the opposite direction but that's because the SCOTUS is nuts. The "Lemon test" was the best method: is it excessive?

It used to be that if it was excessive you couldn't do it, but if it was minimal it was fine. That allowed everyone to have a little fun and also show other people how to learn to be more tolerant.


Does that make any sense?

Yes, and I quite agree.

Alyosha
09-29-2013, 07:21 AM
but your states don't get to take away rights protected by the federal government.

The federal government protects the right to have an abortion unrestricted. Everything else it actually diminishes from free speech to the right to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures.

This is how I know that our government is inequitable and cares only for voting blocks (for the sole purpose of job retention) and not about the law or the people.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 07:29 AM
They should not. If that happens then you can call the Rutherford Institute or the ACLU. They've both defended children's rights to spontaneous prayer (free speech) in school. Just not school sanctioned or endorsed prayer.

I think things have gone too far in the opposite direction but that's because the SCOTUS is nuts. The "Lemon test" was the best method: is it excessive?

It used to be that if it was excessive you couldn't do it, but if it was minimal it was fine. That allowed everyone to have a little fun and also show other people how to learn to be more tolerant.

It shouldn't. See above.

Yes, and I quite agree.

I think that you and I would get along just fine.

On the first 2 it happens all the time. The letters go out, and it becomes a problem

We had a situation in MI where students were kicked out of classes for asking questions that poked holes in the Evolution theory? Not Religious questions but scientific ones that the answer have not been found yet.

Stuff like that just does not sit well?

Alyosha
09-29-2013, 07:32 AM
zelmo1234

You're from Michigan? :) When we moved to the US we moved to Detroit. I have a love/hate with the city. I was a teen through the Eminem experience. 3-1-3, baby!

I still miss Detroit...sometimes.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 07:44 AM
@zelmo1234 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=588)

You're from Michigan? :) When we moved to the US we moved to Detroit. I have a love/hate with the city. I was a teen through the Eminem experience. 3-1-3, baby!

I still miss Detroit...sometimes.

I live on the west side, much slower pace over here, but one of my companies is based in Auburn Hills so I am in Detroit often.

If You come back to visit, I know a fantastic place for a beer and some awesome Cheese Soup. Bring the family, I will buy!

countryboy
09-29-2013, 07:59 AM
Nice try but I don't want my morality to be legislated, that would be you, I am for states rights, you want national control!

But it is a great tactic of the liberal nations, when loosing an argument? LIE! Now that that has not worked either, you would call me a racist or homophobe or gun toting bible thumper!
And then pretend they don't know what you are talking about, as kilogram did to me in this very thread. :wink:

jillian
09-29-2013, 08:01 AM
If you want religion in school go to a Catholic school or Baptist school or home school. What's the problem?

or a yeshiva or a muslim school...

but yes, i agree

countryboy
09-29-2013, 08:02 AM
I think you misunderstood the analogy.

Christians who deny science are the same as the Muslims who deny science.

Same with all Religious people who deny science.
Wrong, kilogram refers to "Christian violence" all the time. When called on it, he plays dumb.

jillian
09-29-2013, 08:02 AM
See I am a tenth amendment kind of guy and don't think that the federal government has standing in a lot of issues.

We did get some pull back on the commerce clause, which is a good thing, And what you want is the federal government legislating YOUR morality and forcing it on the states. There is no doubt about that.

Where if it is left to the states some will have laws that you like and some will have laws that I like, and you can live where you wish to live?

I see more freedom in that!

that's nice... but your "10th" has zero to do with infringements upon the rights protected by the federal government.

and your "states" have already proven what they do unrestrained.

countryboy
09-29-2013, 08:03 AM
I like people who are low key about their religion. Quiet about it.
Me too, especially atheist libs.

countryboy
09-29-2013, 08:04 AM
I rest my case.
You have no case.

countryboy
09-29-2013, 08:07 AM
So if there was a vote to put "In Allah we trust" you wouldn't have a problem? How about "in charlie mason we trust". Does that burn the skin of anybody? No...
It does say "In Allah we trust", in English. :wink:

Alyosha
09-29-2013, 08:07 AM
that's nice... but your "10th" has zero to do with infringements upon the rights protected by the federal government.


Again, what rights does it protect? Our 4th? Nope. Our 1st? Not really anymore. How about our 2nd? Hell to the no.



and your "states" have already proven what they do unrestrained

Uhhhhh...uhhhhh....the Patriot Act and NDAA???? Are you fucking kidding that you think the federal government isn't proving what it can do "unrestrained"?????

My goodness!

Alyosha
09-29-2013, 08:08 AM
I live on the west side, much slower pace over here, but one of my companies is based in Auburn Hills so I am in Detroit often.

If You come back to visit, I know a fantastic place for a beer and some awesome Cheese Soup. Bring the family, I will buy!


My "family" now consists of a hella lot of marines, you sure about that? :)

countryboy
09-29-2013, 08:09 AM
Some people know better than to believe in any God.

I must say my money would look a lot better with that saying taken off of it.

How about "In Ourselves We Trust," or is perseverance not a common theme for America anymore? Not without some 'God?'

Pathetic. If we can't make it day to day without printing "In God We Trust" on all our money, we as a people are doomed.

I trust myself first and my common man second. Never any 'God' and never the Government.

They're both one in the same, a fucking illusion.

Yes, we know libs feel they "know better" than everyone else. Now tell us something we don't know.

If you want to send me all of your money with offensive sayings on it, I won't mind. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you an address to send it to.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 08:15 AM
My "family" now consists of a hella lot of marines, you sure about that? :)

Any time I can buy lunch for a bunch of hero's

There are very few things I would go into debt for, but that would be one of them.

And my daytime job pays ok

So hell yeah I would love to buy them lunch!

Alyosha
09-29-2013, 08:17 AM
Any time I can buy lunch for a bunch of hero's

There are very few things I would go into debt for, but that would be one of them.

And my daytime job pays ok

So hell yeah I would love to buy them lunch!
Codename Section Ethereal Mr. Evil you guys hear that? He's buying. :)

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 08:20 AM
@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) @Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870) @Mr. Evil (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=872) you guys hear that? He's buying. :)

Yes and thank you all it would be an honor!

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 08:32 AM
I live on the west side, much slower pace over here, but one of my companies is based in Auburn Hills so I am in Detroit often.

If You come back to visit, I know a fantastic place for a beer and some awesome Cheese Soup. Bring the family, I will buy!

Tell me, is it really dying there? I find it very sad that such a place would be going down the gurgler. I always remember the original Robocop being set there and how the director said he chose Detroit for the location due to how it really was. There must be some industry there, surely...

kilgram
09-29-2013, 08:39 AM
I agree that evolution is a science, but in the USA it is not taught like any other science, it is taught from the standpoint that it must be true and then they dodge everything that science can't explain and say well we know that it is true.

Rather than collecting evidence and trying to prove the theory

And you will be happy to know that My job is actually protecting people, not killing people I an a security provider, not a Contractor, there is a difference.

Now if someone wants to harm the people that I have to protect, I will stop that from happening. But I do not seek to harm anyone.
MMM, I understand your job, but I don't know what does a contractor.

However I don't like these kind of jobs. But I believe that sometimes are necessary, but I don't like. Although it goes against my principles, I think that I can be a little weak in these principles and more if I had to protect someone dared to me.

Mister D
09-29-2013, 09:09 AM
Tell me, is it really dying there? I find it very sad that such a place would be going down the gurgler. I always remember the original Robocop being set there and how the director said he chose Detroit for the location due to how it really was. There must be some industry there, surely...

There are a lot of abandoned buildings now. Looks a little creepy, actually.

http://zfein.com/photography/detroit/

Mr Happy
09-29-2013, 09:13 AM
There are a lot of abandoned buildings now. Looks a little creepy, actually.

http://zfein.com/photography/detroit/

Parts of London and other European cities had the same issue. Developers came in and knocked the places down and turned them trendy again. Let's hope the same thing happens there...

Mister D
09-29-2013, 09:18 AM
Parts of London and other European cities had the same issue. Developers came in and knocked the places down and turned them trendy again. Let's hope the same thing happens there...

Yeah, I think developers will reinvigorate the place at some point. Hopefully, someone will have a great idea or a vision of what could be and it sets off a trend.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 09:54 AM
Tell me, is it really dying there? I find it very sad that such a place would be going down the gurgler. I always remember the original Robocop being set there and how the director said he chose Detroit for the location due to how it really was. There must be some industry there, surely...

It is struggling, that is for sure, the city filed bankruptcy this year, and they are just swamped with retirement plans, and that is because the populations is a showdown of what it once was.

We all have high hopes but it will not be easy and there is no money! Maybe a view of things to come in other cities unfortunately!

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 09:56 AM
MMM, I understand your job, but I don't know what does a contractor.

However I don't like these kind of jobs. But I believe that sometimes are necessary, but I don't like. Although it goes against my principles, I think that I can be a little weak in these principles and more if I had to protect someone dared to me.

Well I can tell you that most people that stand in-between wish that one day there would be no need for them as well. What a great day that will be when security forces and soldiers are no longer needed.

I will be the happiest unemployed person in the world!

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 09:58 AM
Parts of London and other European cities had the same issue. Developers came in and knocked the places down and turned them trendy again. Let's hope the same thing happens there...

Part of the problem is that there are way to many homes for the number of people that live there, so they are just rotting and decaying

Mister D
09-29-2013, 10:09 AM
Part of the problem is that there are way to many homes for the number of people that live there, so they are just rotting and decaying

The city has lost over 60% of its population since the 1950s. 25% of that decline occurred between 2000 ad 2010.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/us/23detroit.html?_r=2&

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 10:41 AM
The city has lost over 60% of its population since the 1950s. 25% of that decline occurred between 2000 ad 2010.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/us/23detroit.html?_r=2&

That is what I was trying to say, and I did not do it very well did I

Thanks for the post

Ethereal
09-29-2013, 10:44 AM
@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) @Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870) @Mr. Evil (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=872) you guys hear that? He's buying. :)

We ain't no heroes.

Codename Section
09-29-2013, 10:50 AM
We ain't no heroes.

Shut up, dude, and speak for yourself.

http://images.wikia.com/reddeadredemption/images/7/7b/Big-damn-heroes-demotivational-poster-1215101136.jpg

sky dancer
09-29-2013, 10:53 AM
That is simply incorrect. If you were to spend the money to purchase the encyclopedia of war you would understand that very few wars were based on religion.

That's not what I said. When people of ANY faith go to war they think god is on THEIR side.

Codename Section
09-29-2013, 10:53 AM
That's not what I said. When people of ANY faith go to war they think god is on THEIR side.

God's on everyone's side, but no one seems to be on God's side.

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 11:01 AM
We ain't no heroes.

I wouldn't expect you to say anything else, but I will choose who I give that status too, and unfortunately I have decide that you are worth it!

zelmo1234
09-29-2013, 11:02 AM
God's on everyone's side, but no one seems to be on God's side.

Isn't that the truth!

Mister D
09-29-2013, 11:47 AM
That is absolutely untrue. Plenty of religious groups today send their adherents to war to kill many other human beings.
Nearly every religious group thinks god is on their side when they go to war. War is mass murder.

Really? Which ones?

sky dancer
09-29-2013, 11:54 AM
Really? Which ones?

Do you think the war going on between Israeli's and Palestinians isn't a religious war? Judaism versus Islam

Mister D
09-29-2013, 11:56 AM
Do you think the war going on between Israeli's and Palestinians isn't a religious war?

Again, which ones?

no. It's a racial/ethnic and political conflict. To Arabs, Israel is a European colony.

Codename Section
09-29-2013, 12:16 PM
Do you think the war going on between Israeli's and Palestinians isn't a religious war? Judaism versus Islam

It's a "space" thing. They both want it.

sky dancer
09-29-2013, 12:39 PM
It's a "space" thing. They both want it.

They both want it because they both consider it God given to THEM.

Mister D
09-29-2013, 12:41 PM
They both want it because they both consider it God given to THEM.

no. The Jews want it because Europe didn't war them. The Arabs want it because they were living there.

Cthulhu
09-29-2013, 10:42 PM
@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) @Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870) @Mr. Evil (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=872) you guys hear that? He's buying. :)

Nothing I ever did in the military was heroic, nor deserving of a free lunch.

But if you're buying anyways...

shaarona
09-30-2013, 05:14 AM
Do you think the war going on between Israeli's and Palestinians isn't a religious war? Judaism versus Islam

Not at all. Its about land and human rights.,

jillian
09-30-2013, 05:23 AM
Do you think the war going on between Israeli's and Palestinians isn't a religious war? Judaism versus Islam

it's not a religious war. it's a war over land. the pals lost ... keep attackng... resort to terrorism... israel retaliates... opens settlements... pals respond... shoot missiles at israel... after 1000 missiles, israel retaliates...

just because the pals are muslim and the israelis are jews doesn't make it a religious war. it isn't the religious jews who do the fighting for the most part (orthodox jews are exempt from the army if they want to be) and pals aren't fundies.

it's land... and it's the only time in history that people who lost a war of aggression demand a do-over and anyone takes them seriously.

jillian
09-30-2013, 05:26 AM
Not at all. Its about land and human rights.,

no. if it were about "human rights" arafat would have made a deal when he got 98% of what he wanted. instead he said if he made peace he'd "be drinking tea with rabin".

that isn't about human rights. that's about not wanting peace.

but yes, it's about land.... they should have a state.

it just can't be in israel. and maybe if they didn't teach their children that the people who kill themselves by blowing themselves up to kill others is a good thing, then there would be peace. but that doesn't suit the pal leadership which needs to keep it going so the pals don't realize how much money they've taken from us without doing a thing for their people.

shaarona
09-30-2013, 05:41 AM
no. if it were about "human rights" arafat would have made a deal when he got 98% of what he wanted. instead he said if he made peace he'd "be drinking tea with rabin".

that isn't about human rights. that's about not wanting peace.

but yes, it's about land.... they should have a state.

it just can't be in israel. and maybe if they didn't teach their children that the people who kill themselves by blowing themselves up to kill others is a good thing, then there would be peace. but that doesn't suit the pal leadership which needs to keep it going so the pals don't realize how much money they've taken from us without doing a thing for their people.

A Palestinian State that looks like holes in Swiss cheese is about disconnected bantustans.. Its not a viable solution.

Do you see the lavender dots?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/furniture/in_depth/world/2001/israel_and_palestinians/key_maps/jewish_map.gif

Alyosha
09-30-2013, 07:28 AM
I think their Arab neighbors who pursue "peace" out of the Israelis should take in the Palestinians, or I think Israel should carve off the area near Lebanon and allow them to have their own tiny state.

I do understand the Israeli's problem and I agree with jillian that after the 6 Day War it's ridiculous to ask for a do over, but...the lengths the Israeli's are now going to in order to prevent either an uprising or continual terrorism is turning them into the same type of monsters they fled from.

I understand the reality, but if the reality has turned you into someone you hate, maybe it is time for a do over or a complete rethinking of the problem.

No, the Palestinians don't want that area, they want what's in Jerusalem, but they should just be forced to live with it because they have autonomy.

Either that or deport them all to Saudi Arabia who opened it's big mouth during the 2000 Intifada to criticize Israel.

jillian
09-30-2013, 07:30 AM
I think their Arab neighbors who pursue "peace" out of the Israelis should take in the Palestinians, or I think Israel should carve off the area near Lebanon and allow them to have their own tiny state.

I do understand the Israeli's problem and I agree with @jillian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=719) that after the 6 Day War it's ridiculous to ask for a do over, but...the lengths the Israeli's are now going to in order to prevent either an uprising or continual terrorism is turning them into the same type of monsters they fled from.

I understand the reality, but if the reality has turned you into someone you hate, maybe it is time for a do over or a complete rethinking of the problem.

No, the Palestinians don't want that area, they want what's in Jerusalem, but they should just be forced to live with it because they have autonomy.

Either that or deport them all to Saudi Arabia who opened it's big mouth during the 2000 Intifada to criticize Israel.

given that the "palestinians" were bedouins who lived in transjordan, i think they should take them in, too.

Alyosha
09-30-2013, 07:31 AM
given that the "palestinians" were bedouins who lived in transjordan, i think they should take them in, too.

There ya go. Money-->Mouth-->Put

shaarona
09-30-2013, 07:47 AM
I think their Arab neighbors who pursue "peace" out of the Israelis should take in the Palestinians, or I think Israel should carve off the area near Lebanon and allow them to have their own tiny state.

I do understand the Israeli's problem and I agree with @jillian (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=719) that after the 6 Day War it's ridiculous to ask for a do over, but...the lengths the Israeli's are now going to in order to prevent either an uprising or continual terrorism is turning them into the same type of monsters they fled from.

I understand the reality, but if the reality has turned you into someone you hate, maybe it is time for a do over or a complete rethinking of the problem.

No, the Palestinians don't want that area, they want what's in Jerusalem, but they should just be forced to live with it because they have autonomy.

Either that or deport them all to Saudi Arabia who opened it's big mouth during the 2000 Intifada to criticize Israel.

Saudi Arabia is not like Palestine.. Palestine is their ancient home... They just want to go home.

In 1951 The Israelis tried to deport the rest of the Palestinians to KSA and asked the US to pay for it.

Alyosha
09-30-2013, 07:54 AM
Saudi Arabia is not like Palestine.. Palestine is their ancient home... They just want to go home.

In 1951 The Israelis tried to deport the rest of the Palestinians to KSA and asked the US to pay for it.


My ancient home is Russia. And? We left when I was a kid because communism sucked ass. I go back and it's fun now, still don't feel the need to resettle there.

If I were the Palestinians and my choice was apartheid or living somewhere else--especially if I had kids--I would go somewhere else.

shaarona
09-30-2013, 07:57 AM
given that the "palestinians" were bedouins who lived in transjordan, i think they should take them in, too.

The Palestinians were NOT Bedouin.. They lived in settled towns and villages and were farmers.. Farming and maintaining the ancient Roman terraces.

Alyosha
09-30-2013, 08:02 AM
The Palestinians were NOT Bedouin.. They lived in settled towns and villages and were farmers.. Farming and maintaining the ancient Roman terraces.

Who cares at this point? They ought to be responsible to their families and relocate. A desire that will never materialize should not trump the safety of your children, nor should it empower you to raise them in a culture of death.

I'm not giving the Israelis a free pass because if this country was as cruel to a segment of our population just to keep the peace I'd be one of the first to protest my government and ask for a different solution.

In this case that solution is to give them a section near a border or deport them.

shaarona
09-30-2013, 08:10 AM
Who cares at this point? They ought to be responsible to their families and relocate. A desire that will never materialize should not trump the safety of your children, nor should it empower you to raise them in a culture of death.

I'm not giving the Israelis a free pass because if this country was as cruel to a segment of our population just to keep the peace I'd be one of the first to protest my government and ask for a different solution.

In this case that solution is to give them a section near a border or deport them.

Yet the European Jews relocate their children to the only place in the world that is not safe for Jews.

Alyosha
09-30-2013, 08:14 AM
Yet the European Jews relocate their children to the only place in the world that is not safe for Jews.

Very true. They did this in the 1940's and had I been in charge of the world at the time I'd say a 2000 year old claim is not a claim.

But that's ancient history, too.

We're speaking of today and today's children that shouldn't have to grow up starving, thirsty, and embroiled in violence.

shaarona
09-30-2013, 08:15 AM
Very true. They did this in the 1940's and had I been in charge of the world at the time I'd say a 2000 year old claim is not a claim.

But that's ancient history, too.

We're speaking of today and today's children that shouldn't have to grow up starving, thirsty, and embroiled in violence.

I agree.. but its been that way for 60 years.

jillian
09-30-2013, 04:18 PM
Saudi Arabia is not like Palestine.. Palestine is their ancient home... They just want to go home.

In 1951 The Israelis tried to deport the rest of the Palestinians to KSA and asked the US to pay for it.
shaarona there is no palestine. the only palestine was what the romans called judea...and then the brits used the term during their imperial years. it was judea gong back thousands of years. the people were the israelites... and they were jews.

and if there was a "palestine" ... what was their form of government?

who were their notable leaders?

what were their primary exports?

who were their trading partners?




we'll wait.

shaarona
09-30-2013, 04:24 PM
there is no palestine

and if there was... what was their form of government.

who were their notable leaders?

what were their primary exports?

who were their trading partners?




we'll wait.

Palestine was a province of Syria .. and so noted by Herodotus in 500 BC. Palestine is also mentioned by Chaucer and Shakespeare.

There was no Israel either.... most of Europe was city states and principalities and baronies.

But, the Palestinians have been in Palestine since Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria circa 700 BC.. They were living in Jerusalem at the end of the Babylonian exile (read Ezra).

The history of the region is far more complicated than just the Jewish version of history.

jillian
09-30-2013, 05:00 PM
Palestine was a province of Syria .. and so noted by Herodotus in 500 BC. Palestine is also mentioned by Chaucer and Shakespeare.

There was no Israel either.... most of Europe was city states and principalities and baronies.

But, the Palestinians have been in Palestine since Abraham.. Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria circa 700 BC.. They were living in Jerusalem at the end of the Babylonian exile (read Ezra).

The history of the region is far more complicated than just the Jewish version of history.

and iran was persia and used to have a lot of jews.

stuff changes. if a terrorist group of mexicans were lobbing missiles into texas and california, and demanding a "right of return", we'd turn them into a sheet of glass and no one would blink. history is always complicated.

there was always a judea... and there were israelites.

and even if there weren't (which there were), there are now... that's what happens when wars are started by people who then lose those wars.

my family had to leave belarus because of progroms... i don't see anyone demanding i get my family land back.

and, ultimately, the pals don't want peace anyway. *shrug*

like i said... if they did..arafat would have taken the deal when he got 98% of what he wanted.

shaarona
09-30-2013, 05:03 PM
and iran was persia and used to have a lot of jews.

stuff changes. if a terrorist group of mexicans were lobbing missiles into texas and california, and demanding a "right of return", we'd turn them into a sheet of glass and no one would blink.

there was always a judea... and there were israelites.

and even if there weren't (which there were), there are now... that's what happens when wars are started by people who then lose those wars.

my family had to leave belarus because of progroms... i don't see anyone demanding i get my family land back.

http://www.keyway.ca/gif/decapols.gif

Greeks, Syrians, Egyptians, Canaanites and Arabs all lived in Palestine.

The Decapolis were inhabited primarily by Greek people who settled in the region after the time of Alexander the Great's conquest (see Ancient Empires - Greece (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/greekemp.htm)), and were established as a political entity after the Romans occupied the land from about 65 B.C. (see Ancient Empires - Rome (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/emprome.htm) and Roman Legions (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/legion.htm) and Roman Roads (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/romeroad.htm)).

The cities were Scythopolis, ("city of the Scythians" - ancient Bethshean, the only one of the Decapolis located to the west of the Jordan River (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/jordanva.htm)), Hippus, Gadara, Pella (to which the Christians fled just before the destruction of Jerusalem (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/jerfacts.htm)), Philadelphia (ancient Rabbath-ammon), Gerasa, Dion, Canatha, Raphana, and Damascus (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/damascus.htm). According to Ptolomy, their number was later increased to eighteen, although the others are not identified with certainty.
According to ancient historians, the Decapolis had their own courts, army and coinage. Ruins found today of their theaters, temples and other buildings indicate that they were an advanced culture for their time.

The Palestinians didn't start any wars, Jillian.

You do realize that Jerusalem was a stop on the trade route and bandit territory..

Peter1469
09-30-2013, 05:41 PM
Palestine was just the name for a region; not a people. In general it is better described as the Levant.

shaarona
09-30-2013, 05:46 PM
Palestine was just the name for a region; not a people. In general it is better described as the Levant.

The term Levant, which first appeared in English in 1497, originally meant the East (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East) in general or "Mediterranean lands east of Italy"

Herodotus called it Palestine in 500 BC.

Peter1469
09-30-2013, 05:55 PM
The term Levant, which first appeared in English in 1497, originally meant the East (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East) in general or "Mediterranean lands east of Italy"

Herodotus called it Palestine in 500 BC.

As a geographic location... The area was called the Levant earlier than that, during the 1st Crusade.

shaarona
09-30-2013, 05:57 PM
As a geographic location... The area was called the Levant earlier than that, during the 1st Crusade.

If you say so.. I know that Chaucer and Shakespeare referred to it as Palestine.

Peter1469
09-30-2013, 06:01 PM
If you say so.. I know that Chaucer and Shakespeare referred to it as Palestine.

Yes, I know. It is a geographical term, not linked to a specific people. (Niether is the Levant.)

shaarona
09-30-2013, 06:08 PM
Yes, I know. It is a geographical term, not linked to a specific people. (Niether is the Levant.)

I went into that earlier on the thread.