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View Full Version : WH: We're Winning...Doesn't Matter How Long Shutdown Lasts



Codename Section
10-04-2013, 05:17 PM
See guys, don't be upset about the government shutdown or tantrums. You're winning.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579113781436540284.html?m od=mktw

Said a senior administration official: "We are winning...It doesn't really matter to us" how long the shutdown lasts "because what matters is the end result."

For the greater good...

jillian
10-04-2013, 05:34 PM
See guys, don't be upset about the government shutdown or tantrums. You're winning.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579113781436540284.html?m od=mktw

Said a senior administration official: "We are winning...It doesn't really matter to us" how long the shutdown lasts "because what matters is the end result."

For the greater good...



Codename Section Disagreements are fine, but he never said what your o/p says.

and if he gave in to them now, in six weeks they'd be holding their breath til they turn blue over something else.

Codename Section
10-04-2013, 05:36 PM
@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866) Disagreements are fine, but he never said what your o/p says.

and if he gave in to them now, in six weeks they'd be holding their breath til they turn blue over something else.


So you believe the Wall St. Journal is lying about a Senior White House Official saying that?

Cthulhu
10-04-2013, 05:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0TqY8tpJuI

Peter1469
10-04-2013, 07:07 PM
The shutdown is childish. It is the ending battle in the American experience. The baby boomers have created so much debt and entitlements, and many of the younger generations want cradle to grave government protection (notwithstanding the younger generation here that get it). My conclusion is that we will crash our economy before we wake up and fix the obvious. To much government spending.

jillian
10-04-2013, 07:24 PM
By Dylan Matthews (http://www.washingtonpost.com/dylan-matthews/2012/07/16/gJQAH7AyoW_page.html), Published: October 4 at 12:28 pmE-mail the writer (dylan.matthews@washpost.com?subject=Reader%20feed back%20for%20'You%20probably%20think%20the%20shutd own%E2%80%99s%20about%20spending.%20It%20isn%E2%80 %99t.')


1. So this is all about the deficit, right?It's true that House Republicans are holding up a spending bill, but they're not holding it up over demands for spending cuts or tax increases or some other package of deficit reduction. In fact, they're happy with the level of spending in the bill. It's a number they proposed, after all.http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/10/CR-compromise.png (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/10/CR-compromise.png)Center for American Progress

For that reason, it was widely assumed that passing a continuing resolution to fund the government at current levels would be a relatively uncontroversial proposition. But then Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah) came in. They declared that they wouldn't support a continuing resolution that doesn't "defund" Obamacare. That failed, so then they said they wouldn't vote on a CR that didn't delay Obamacare. Then it was a CR that didn't delay the individual mandate.Senate Democrats (not to mention the Obama administration) weren't willing to dismantle Obamacare as a cost of keeping the government open. Republicans weren't willing to keep the government open unless Democrats let them dismantle Obamacare. So the government closed. (Here's absolutely everything you need to know about government shutdowns (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/absolutely-everything-you-need-to-know-about-how-the-government-shutdown-will-work/).)2. Wait, I totally thought this was about the deficit. Why aren't Republicans worried about the deficit?There's not a whole lot left to worry about anymore. The deficit is set to fall rapidly through 2018:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/10/deficits.jpg (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/10/deficits.jpg)Data: U.S. Budget and CBO projections; Graph: made with Infogram by Ezra Klein

Which means that the debt is going to be largely stable (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/14/cbo-says-deficit-problem-is-solved-for-the-next-10-years/) in the medium-term:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/04/you-probably-think-the-shutdowns-about-spending-it-isnt/?wpisrc=nl_wnkpm

Peter1469
10-04-2013, 07:36 PM
By Dylan Matthews (http://www.washingtonpost.com/dylan-matthews/2012/07/16/gJQAH7AyoW_page.html), Published: October 4 at 12:28 pmE-mail the writer


1. So this is all about the deficit, right?It's true that House Republicans are holding up a spending bill, but they're not holding it up over demands for spending cuts or tax increases or some other package of deficit reduction. In fact, they're happy with the level of spending in the bill. It's a number they proposed, after all.http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/10/CR-compromise.png (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/10/CR-compromise.png)Center for American Progress

For that reason, it was widely assumed that passing a continuing resolution to fund the government at current levels would be a relatively uncontroversial proposition. But then Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah) came in. They declared that they wouldn't support a continuing resolution that doesn't "defund" Obamacare. That failed, so then they said they wouldn't vote on a CR that didn't delay Obamacare. Then it was a CR that didn't delay the individual mandate.Senate Democrats (not to mention the Obama administration) weren't willing to dismantle Obamacare as a cost of keeping the government open. Republicans weren't willing to keep the government open unless Democrats let them dismantle Obamacare. So the government closed. (Here's absolutely everything you need to know about government shutdowns (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/absolutely-everything-you-need-to-know-about-how-the-government-shutdown-will-work/).)2. Wait, I totally thought this was about the deficit. Why aren't Republicans worried about the deficit?There's not a whole lot left to worry about anymore. The deficit is set to fall rapidly through 2018:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/10/deficits.jpg (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/10/deficits.jpg)Data: U.S. Budget and CBO projections; Graph: made with Infogram by Ezra Klein

Which means that the debt is going to be largely stable (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/14/cbo-says-deficit-problem-is-solved-for-the-next-10-years/) in the medium-term:




http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/04/you-probably-think-the-shutdowns-about-spending-it-isnt/?wpisrc=nl_wnkpm

And if interest rates rise to their historical averages, we will be screwed.

Codename Section
10-04-2013, 07:42 PM
Democrats, like Charlie Sheen, are winning and that's what they want, win at all costs. They should be happy.

Cthulhu
10-04-2013, 08:26 PM
Are the libertarian types the only ones noticing that there is still a gigantic deficit?

For all the talk in the past 4-8 years about our deficit, the only we we have done is increased the debt limit - which increases the deficit.

zelmo1234
10-04-2013, 08:32 PM
The shutdown is childish. It is the ending battle in the American experience. The baby boomers have created so much debt and entitlements, and many of the younger generations want cradle to grave government protection (notwithstanding the younger generation here that get it). My conclusion is that we will crash our economy before we wake up and fix the obvious. To much government spending.

Unfortunately, the way beck to sanity is through insolvency!

Sad but true.

It will be interesting when the people on Welfare, SS, Disability, even those that really depend on those programs, wake to find one day that they are gone, and the politicians will all be pointing fingers at the other side.

But the day we run out of money is coming, and I believe sooner than most people think.

I am fairly sure that my ribs will hurt from laughing at our liberal friends that don't know what to do with out the government meeting their every need. but that is the only way back to reality

Common
10-04-2013, 08:56 PM
The shutdown is childish. It is the ending battle in the American experience. The baby boomers have created so much debt and entitlements, and many of the younger generations want cradle to grave government protection (notwithstanding the younger generation here that get it). My conclusion is that we will crash our economy before we wake up and fix the obvious. To much government spending.

Social Security and Medicare was started pre babyboomers, baby boomers paid that their entire working lives. There were other entitlements started pre babyboomer also. I acknowledge many were started by babyboomers of both poltical persuasions.
If you are going to rail on entitlements on people that paid for them their entire lives at least rail on about subsidies that some of the richest corporations gets from US and other gimmes to the rich and corporations. Why is it that everyone ignores the people that need NO HELP and always focus on those that do.

Cthulhu
10-04-2013, 09:06 PM
Social Security and Medicare was started pre babyboomers, baby boomers paid that their entire working lives. There were other entitlements started pre babyboomer also. I acknowledge many were started by babyboomers of both poltical persuasions.
If you are going to rail on entitlements on people that paid for them their entire lives at least rail on about subsidies that some of the richest corporations gets from US and other gimmes to the rich and corporations. Why is it that everyone ignores the people that need NO HELP and always focus on those that do.

Believe it or not many farmers are on the dole as well. Out here in idaho, the government is paying some people here to not plant their crops. Where is the logic in that? And others that do farm, can do so only because of the federal subsidies available.

It is one hell of a jacked system we live under.

Cthulhu
10-04-2013, 09:06 PM
Social Security and Medicare was started pre babyboomers, baby boomers paid that their entire working lives. There were other entitlements started pre babyboomer also. I acknowledge many were started by babyboomers of both poltical persuasions.
If you are going to rail on entitlements on people that paid for them their entire lives at least rail on about subsidies that some of the richest corporations gets from US and other gimmes to the rich and corporations. Why is it that everyone ignores the people that need NO HELP and always focus on those that do.

Believe it or not many farmers are on the dole as well. Out here in idaho, the government is paying some people here to not plant their crops. Where is the logic in that? And many others that do farm, can do so only because of the federal subsidies available.

It is one hell of a jacked system we live under.

roadmaster
10-04-2013, 10:13 PM
Who are they winning against? The people out of work.

Alyosha
10-05-2013, 08:46 AM
Social Security and Medicare was started pre babyboomers, baby boomers paid that their entire working lives. There were other entitlements started pre babyboomer also. I acknowledge many were started by babyboomers of both poltical persuasions.
If you are going to rail on entitlements on people that paid for them their entire lives at least rail on about subsidies that some of the richest corporations gets from US and other gimmes to the rich and corporations. Why is it that everyone ignores the people that need NO HELP and always focus on those that do.

I don't think corporations should get subsidies, either. I would never ever ever ever (infinity) have approved TARP. It's like giving the bank robbers a reward instead of prison after they shot up the bank.

Alyosha
10-05-2013, 08:48 AM
Believe it or not many farmers are on the dole as well. Out here in idaho, the government is paying some people here to not plant their crops. Where is the logic in that? And others that do farm, can do so only because of the federal subsidies available.

It is one hell of a jacked system we live under.

Mr. Evil

do you not agree though that farmers are strangled by regulations that prevent them from selling edible crops? That's the problem. They have all this equipment and land and the only thing they can grow is crap crop because the regulations are too strangling.

Mainecoons
10-05-2013, 08:59 AM
Does it concern you, Jillian, that despite rather large tax increases, the deficit is still over 700 billion and projected to start rising again in a couple years?

Do you have a clue that you cannot tax your way out of this spending problem?

jillian
10-05-2013, 08:59 AM
And if interest rates rise to their historical averages, we will be screwed.

if

jillian
10-05-2013, 09:00 AM
Does it concern you, Jillian, that despite rather large tax increases, the deficit is still over 700 billion and projected to start rising again in a couple years?

Do you have a clue that you cannot tax your way out of this spending problem?

we pay a lower median tax rate than at any time in the past 50 years. there haven't been "large tax increases". there have been some... but they haven't restored the rates before baby bush cut them and then ran two wars on china's dime

and i wouldn't worry about it if i were you. it's not like you're paying taxes from mexico

Mainecoons
10-05-2013, 09:01 AM
@Mr. Evil (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=872)

do you not agree though that farmers are strangled by regulations that prevent them from selling edible crops? That's the problem. They have all this equipment and land and the only thing they can grow is crap crop because the regulations are too strangling.

There is no reason to subsidize farmers. The myth of the family farm is just that, a myth. The Agricultural budget is by and large just subsidies to corporate farmers. All of that should be zeroed out and a bunch of those fat-assed bureaucrats in the D of Ag put out to pasture.

I could cut 40 percent out of that bloated Federal government and its bloated military in a week. So could you, if you think about it.

jillian
10-05-2013, 09:04 AM
There is no reason to subsidize farmers. The myth of the family farm is just that, a myth. The Agricultural budget is by and large just subsidies to corporate farmers. All of that should be zeroed out and a bunch of those fat-assed bureaucrats in the D of Ag put out to pasture.

I could cut 40 percent out of that bloated Federal government and its bloated military in a week. So could you, if you think about it.

^^^^

that

but the bloat isn't in foodstamps or WIC

Mainecoons
10-05-2013, 09:07 AM
Sorry but as long as people are allowed to take food stamps into convenience stores and buy junk, it is there too. It is ironic that the corporate pigs who run convenience stores are the biggest lobbies supporting these programs.

Alyosha
10-05-2013, 09:52 AM
There is no reason to subsidize farmers. The myth of the family farm is just that, a myth. The Agricultural budget is by and large just subsidies to corporate farmers. All of that should be zeroed out and a bunch of those fat-assed bureaucrats in the D of Ag put out to pasture.

I could cut 40 percent out of that bloated Federal government and its bloated military in a week. So could you, if you think about it.


Well, yes and no, the Food Safety Modernization Act made it pretty fucking difficult for family farms in places like Michigan and Virginia to continue to farm.

Many of these farmers, and I should know because my CPA brother helps them figure out legal ways to thwart taxes and the government, have to become "tree farms" and grow subsidy crops or else just lose all their equipment, experience, and the land their family owned for upwards of 50 years.

Peter1469
10-05-2013, 12:57 PM
if


Do you gamble much? :wink:

Peter1469
10-05-2013, 01:01 PM
we pay a lower median tax rate than at any time in the past 50 years. there haven't been "large tax increases". there have been some... but they haven't restored the rates before baby bush cut them and then ran two wars on china's dime

and i wouldn't worry about it if i were you. it's not like you're paying taxes from mexico

But the Bush tax cuts increased tax revenue....

Cthulhu
10-05-2013, 01:37 PM
@Mr. Evil (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=872)

do you not agree though that farmers are strangled by regulations that prevent them from selling edible crops? That's the problem. They have all this equipment and land and the only thing they can grow is crap crop because the regulations are too strangling.

This is the main problem. I agree entirely about the strangulation of farmers.

But really, paying people to not grow crops? What the hell is that about?

They do it so the price stays within a certain range. It's complete garbage.

Alyosha
10-05-2013, 05:19 PM
This is the main problem. I agree entirely about the strangulation of farmers.

But really, paying people to not grow crops? What the hell is that about?

They do it so the price stays within a certain range. It's complete garbage.

I agree, but we created a system which deprives them of their liberty and then what...we say "fuck you" and hang them out there?

I'm of the "Network" mentality that we take out the big thieves before the little ones.

Cthulhu
10-05-2013, 05:45 PM
I agree, but we created a system which deprives them of their liberty and then what...we say "fuck you" and hang them out there?

I'm of the "Network" mentality that we take out the big thieves before the little ones.

Eh...I understand the sentiment, but I don't think it is root with sound reasoning. Every monster started out small. If you put up with small crap, big crap will inevitably follow.

I am of the 'nip it in the bud' philosophy on this. Basically, take down anybody you can when you can.