Rachel Maddow pulls the curtain back on Republican obstruction...

[Cigar]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BV3o10sCcAEPVLa.jpg

Does anyone care to address what she said or just whine about the messenger? :laugh:

[AmazonTania]

Seems that the Congress spent alot of time reforming all of their mistakes.

Which is interesting because if those ideas were so great the first time, why are they constantly trying to reform it.

[Alyosha]

Speaking of curtains

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/attachments/politics/5527d1335366685-michelle-obama-president-has-brought-us-out-dark-into-light-obama-wizard-oz.jpg

[Mainecoons]

Madcow.

:rofl:

[Cigar]

Seems that the Congress spent alot of time reforming all of their mistakes.

Which is interesting because if those ideas were so great the first time, why are they constantly trying to reform it.

Ever try running a business? :rollseyes:

[Mainecoons]

Cigar.

:rofl:

[Cigar]

So we sit here until they figure out they fuckin' lost

Extra Bonus Quote of the Day

"This mess was created by the Republicans for one purpose, and they lost. People in my district are calling in for Obamacare -- affordable health care -- in large numbers. These guys have lost, and they can't figure out how to admit it... So we sit here until they figure out they fuckin' lost."

-- Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA), quoted by Slate, on when the government shutdown will end.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/10/05/extra_bonus_quote_of_the_day.html

[Alyosha]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9gwm58nmv1r1ya3yo1_500.jpg

[AmazonTania]

Ever try running a business? :rollseyes:

No. I fail to see what this has to do with what I said.

[AmazonTania]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9gwm58nmv1r1ya3yo1_500.jpg

Ah, yes. Someone managed to put it in much better terms than I possibly could.

Thanks Lawrence Reed!

[Cigar]

No. I fail to see what this has to do with what I said.


YOU made the comment about ideas that were so great the first time, and why are they're constantly trying to reform it.

I'm just wondering how many business decisions you have made in your career that were perfect the first time, every time and required no re-planning or mitigation steps?

[Mainecoons]

No. I fail to see what this has to do with what I said.

It's really easy when you don't have to compete but just get handed government contracts because you're "black."

Why, you can spend your work days posting on a message board where practically everyone thinks you are an idiot!

:grin:

[AmazonTania]

YOU made the comment about ideas that were so great the first time, and why are they're constantly trying to reform it.

I'm just wondering how many business decisions you have made in your career that were perfect the first time, every time and required no re-planning or mitigation steps?

Aside from the fact that this is a terrible analogy, if you are constantly trying to revamp your business strategy and it isn't working, that is a sign that you shouldn't be running a business or are simply in the wrong business, obviously.

The difference between the public and private sector is that the private sector knows when to stop. There is an external mechanism which forces them to. No such mechanism exist in the public sector. Bureaucrats will keep doubling down until it either turns out right or they admit their mistakes.

[Cigar]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9gwm58nmv1r1ya3yo1_500.jpg



Anyone here still using DR-Dos or IBMs OS2 ... or better yet Windows 3.0 w/NT? :laugh:

Who's still using Netscape ... because obviously reforming is a bad thing around here ...

Enough said :rollseyes:

[AmazonTania]

Who said reforming was a bad thing?

[jillian]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BV3o10sCcAEPVLa.jpg

Does anyone care to address what she said or just whine about the messenger? :laugh:

the problem is they hate gubmint... so they think that *is* an accomplishment.

[AmazonTania]

Pointing out 'gubmint' many flaws isn't hating Government. It's understanding that an entity is the cause of all the problems it's trying to prevent.

[Mainecoons]

See observation about how liberals are constantly trying to "reform" their failed ideas.

Not that I expect you to learn from your failed ideas, Jillian.

[Cigar]

Aside from the fact that this is a terrible analogy, if you are constantly trying to revamp your business strategy and it isn't working, that is a sign that you shouldn't be running a business or are simply in the wrong business, obviously.

The difference between the public and private sector is that the private sector knows when to stop. There is an external mechanism which forces them to. No such mechanism exist in the public sector. Bureaucrats will keep doubling down until it either turns out right or they admit their mistakes.


OMG ... revamping a business strategy and revamping an implementation strategy are two different things. Any business that going adjust to change is doomed to failure and extinction; you know, like the Republican Party?

If I were you ... I'd just stop now before you get swallowed over something you know nothing about.

[Alyosha]

Anyone here still using DR-Dos or IBMs OS2 ... or better yet Windows 3.0 w/NT? :laugh:

Who's still using Netscape ... because obviously reforming is a bad thing around here ...

Enough said :rollseyes:

You don't know a thing about business either. Product development based on technological advancement is different than writing stupid laws then realizing the repercussions of such laws and having to write more laws to fix those, then watching caselaw develop and having to write more laws to undo the caselaw, then watching how the laws were abused and worked around and having to write more laws to fix that.


And by the way, I am part owner in a business and I work in the law. Two different types of entities, two different motivations.

[Cigar]

See observation about how liberals are constantly trying to "reform" their failed ideas.

Not that I expect you to learn from your failed ideas, Jillian.

Take a good look at what Political arty is Failing ... :laugh:

[AmazonTania]

OMG ... revamping a business strategy and revamping an implementation strategy are two different things.

I know. That's why I told you it was a terrible analogy. Glad to see you can keep up.


Any business that going adjust to change is doomed to failure and extinction; you know, like the Republican Party?

Can I have a map to this statement? I have no idea what you are trying to say here.


If I were you ... I'd just stop now before you get swallowed over something you know nothing about.

You really think you're interesting because you supposedly run a business? It really takes very little knowledge and experience to run a business. It doesn't exactly make you unique or special. Perhaps you should take the time to think before writing before you end up learning how much to don't know.

[Alyosha]

the problem is they hate gubmint... so they think that *is* an accomplishment.

I don't "hate" government. Government is a concept like religion is a concept. I hate politicians and unfortunately they are in charge of "government" which is why it always goes bad.

Always.

The nature of government is to grow in size and power. You start with limited government for and by the people and then you end up with surveillance cameras on every corner, in every subway, smart phones that can track your every location, the IRS reading emails to see if you made more money than you report, the NSA clocking everyone's phone records, "Sneak and Peek" being used by LEOs for drug cases when it was supposed to be for foreign terrorism and emergencies, etc.

[Cigar]

You don't know a thing about business either. Product development based on technological advancement is different than writing stupid laws then realizing the repercussions of such laws and having to write more laws to fix those, then watching caselaw develop and having to write more laws to undo the caselaw, then watching how the laws were abused and worked around and having to write more laws to fix that.


And by the way, I am part owner in a business and I work in the law. Two different types of entities, two different motivations.


Just stop it right there ... you're exposing your lack of knowledge in Politics and history long list of amendments to the Constitution and US Laws.

[Cigar]

Seems that the Congress spent alot of time reforming all of their mistakes.

Which is interesting because if those ideas were so great the first time, why are they constantly trying to reform it.

This is exactly what YOU typed ... not me.

[AmazonTania]

And?

[Alyosha]

Just stop it right there ... you're exposing your lack of knowledge in Politics and history long list of amendments to the Constitution and US Laws.

You're just ridiculous. That is exactly what "politics" is. Legislation is this thing called "law". It's written by politicians, most of whom are lawyers and don't think about the government in the respect of how those laws turn into programs. Therefore, everything is written in lawyer-speak and open for interpretation by other lawyers.

Wake up to the process or, better yet, keep sleeping.

[Green Arrow]

Take a good look at what Political arty is Failing ... :laugh:

Republicans...but the Democrats are only succeeding because right now, people are only given two choices. In a few years, people will get tired of the Democrats, and the pendulum will swing back to Republicans. A few years after that, people will get tired of Republicans, and the pendulum will swing back to Democrats.

People are supporting Democrats now over Republicans because, yes, the Republicans suck, but they have no other viable options than the Democrats. Those of us who are not enslaved to partisan brainwashing understand this simple concept.

[jillian]

Republicans...but the Democrats are only succeeding because right now, people are only given two choices. In a few years, people will get tired of the Democrats, and the pendulum will swing back to Republicans. A few years after that, people will get tired of Republicans, and the pendulum will swing back to Democrats.

People are supporting Democrats now over Republicans because, yes, the Republicans suck, but they have no other viable options than the Democrats. Those of us who are not enslaved to partisan brainwashing understand this simple concept.

good luck with that third party thing. there's a reason they're third party... most people a) don't want to lose; and b) don't agree with them.

there should, in a perfect world, be a lot of parties... but that isn't what happens here.

[AmazonTania]

You must understand that success is defined by who wins and loses to people like Cigar. Not by what is actually working or proven successful.

[Cigar]

You're just ridiculous. That is exactly what "politics" is. Legislation is this thing called "law". It's written by politicians, most of whom are lawyers and don't think about the government in the respect of how those laws turn into programs. Therefore, everything is written in lawyer-speak and open for interpretation by other lawyers.

Wake up to the process or, better yet, keep sleeping.

Don't try to run from the subject ... PLANS of all types are just that PLANS!

A Plan is a direction or an idea or a concept ... and is never a complete and finished product.

That's usually taught somewhere between the first and second weeks of Business or Political Science 101

[Alyosha]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BV3o10sCcAEPVLa.jpg

Does anyone care to address what she said or just whine about the messenger? :laugh:



And by the way, creating new legislation is not necessarily a good thing. Ever heard of the Patriot Act? NDAA? I'd pay them to stay home instead of write legislation like that.

[Green Arrow]

good luck with that third party thing. there's a reason they're third party... most people a) don't want to lose; and b) don't agree with them.

there should, in a perfect world, be a lot of parties... but that isn't what happens here.

I honestly don't care. I won't vote for people I think will be destructive toward my beliefs. If that means "throwing my vote away" on some candidate that won't win, I don't care. I'm not going to vote for a guy who increases drone strikes by 200% from his predecessor and launches into more military actions than his predecessor, bails out more big businesses than his predecessor, expands the wealth inequality gap beyond his predecessor, and erodes my freedom and the freedom of my fellows beyond his predecessor, all in protest of his predecessor.

You can justify it all you want, but I'm sorry, that's retarded. I won't be party to it. Call me all the names in the book, but I refuse.

[Alyosha]

Don't try to run from the subject ... PLANS of all types are just that PLANS!

A Plan is a direction or an idea or a concept ... and is never a complete and finished product.

That's usually taught somewhere between the first and second weeks of Business or Political Science 101


You're being purposefully obtuse now or else you're just ignorant of legislation and how laws are written.

Not sure which.


http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-whoever-hath-an-absolute-authority-to-interpret-any-written-or-spoken-laws-it-is-he-who-is-truly-benjamin-hoadly-306799.jpg

[Cigar]

You must understand that success is defined by who wins and loses to people like Cigar. Not by what is actually working or proven successful.

Here's an idea ... let's explore the success-fulness of Republicans eliminating Social Security, Medicaid or Medicare

But don't worry ... losing is character building, so enjoy your characters.

[Alyosha]

good luck with that third party thing. there's a reason they're third party... most people a) don't want to lose; and b) don't agree with them.

there should, in a perfect world, be a lot of parties... but that isn't what happens here.


Nah, it's mind control through repetition and fear-based programming: "Lesser of Two Evils" is embedded in the psyche because it is short, quick, and easily repeated.

It's the science of marketing.

[Cigar]

And by the way, creating new legislation is not necessarily a good thing. Ever heard of the Patriot Act? NDAA? I'd pay them to stay home instead of write legislation like that.

No one ever said that ... so what do the Republicans Party have to replace ObamaCare with ... ?

In other words ... What is this PLAN? :grin:

[AmazonTania]

Here's an idea ... let's explore the success-fulness of Republicans eliminating Social Security, Medicaid or Medicare.

Why not discuss the 'successs-fulness' of these programs in general, or lack thereof?

I know why, because doing that would actually put a spotlight on how awful they've been.


But don't worry ... losing is character building, so enjoy your characters.

I really don't care about who wins or losses. I just watch the stupidity at work and profit from your mistakes.

[Alyosha]

Here's an idea ... let's explore the success-fulness of Republicans eliminating Social Security, Medicaid or Medicare



Bullshit tactic one: lie (no one talks about eliminating those things and it was Bush who grew the size of medicare)



But don't worry ... losing is character building, so enjoy your characters.

Bullshit tactic two: think of something pithy to say that is confusing and does not apply to conversation leaving normal people trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about.

[Cigar]

[/I]
Why not discuss the 'successs-fulness' of these programs in general, or lack thereof?

I know why, because doing that would actually put a spotlight on how awful they've been.


I really don't care about who wins or losses. I just watch the stupidity at work and profit from your mistakes.



Ok you just sit back watch and complain ... it's normal.

Democrats are trying to Govern, either the Republicans get in the game or get out of the way ... but this country is moving forward with or without The GOP

The Elections have proven that.

[AmazonTania]

Don't try to run from the subject ... PLANS of all types are just that PLANS!

A Plan is a direction or an idea or a concept ... and is never a complete and finished product.

That's usually taught somewhere between the first and second weeks of Business or Political Science 101

No, no it isn't.

[Alyosha]

No one ever said that ... so what do the Republicans Party have to replace ObamaCare with ... ?

In other words ... What is this PLAN? :grin:

First, I am not a Republican so my "plan" would be much different. I believe their plan is to lower costs of healthcare through price publishing and to reduce the cost of insurance by allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines so that there is competition which always lowers prices.

[AmazonTania]

Ok you just sit back watch and complain ... it's normal.

Democrats are trying to Govern, either the Republicans get in the game or get out of the way ... but this country is moving forward with or without The GOP

The Elections have proven that.

I think the fact that the country hasn't gone anywhere is the fact that they are 'trying.'

Not enough 'doing.' [Enter your obstructionism while holding a super majority in the house and senate for two years excuse here]

[Cigar]

No, no it isn't.

Sound like it wasn't ... not everyone goes to the same Schools :wink: your mileage my vary

[AmazonTania]

Sound like it wasn't ... not everyone goes to the same Schools :wink: your mileage my vary

If they taught that to you in school, then they've obviously wasted your time and you should seek a refund.

Or not if it was a community college... Either way, it would explain why your business/economic aptitude is so terrible.

[Cigar]

First, I am not a Republican so my "plan" would be much different. I believe their plan is to lower costs of healthcare through price publishing and to reduce the cost of insurance by allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines so that there is competition which always lowers prices.

So ... outside of a different PLAN that was actually brought to The US Government ... We NOW have ObamaCare that was made Law ... and upheld by the Supreme Court.

Obama WON the Supper Bowl of Politics ... TWICE ... so you're not getting the Ring or The Trophy back ... now matter how many tantrums you throw.

It's LAW ... deal wit it or not ... I don't care

[patrickt]

First, I am not a Republican so my "plan" would be much different. I believe their plan is to lower costs of healthcare through price publishing and to reduce the cost of insurance by allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines so that there is competition which always lowers prices.

And to prevent the government from inflating the cost of healthcare.

[zelmo1234]

Don't try to run from the subject ... PLANS of all types are just that PLANS!

A Plan is a direction or an idea or a concept ... and is never a complete and finished product.

That's usually taught somewhere between the first and second weeks of Business or Political Science 101

The problem is Cigar, politicians make plans without taking into account the facts that surround the issue or the ramifications of the plans that they turn into law.

this happens because these a politicians and not experts in every field.

The ACA for example takes or tries to take control of about 20% of the US economy (healthcare and related services are about 20% of the US economy)

Do you think that it is possible to implement a law in 3 years because remember that the ACA did not pass right away. And have that law even have a chance

I am transiting the multi unit housing operation's into the luxury side of my development business, and that will take more that 3 years?

And we are talking about a several million dollar operation, not multi trillions?

IF you are honest I think that you can see that there are lots of troubles ahead, just as the current republicans are really not willing to address the real problems

The truth is the country is not he wrong path, and neither party is even trying to address the problems,

Not talking to each other is not helping

[Alyosha]

So ... outside of a different PLAN that was actually brought to The US Government ... We NOW have ObamaCare that was made Law ... and upheld by the Supreme Court.

Obama WON the Supper Bowl of Politics ... TWICE ... so you're not getting the Ring or The Trophy back ... now matter how many tantrums you throw.

It's LAW ... deal wit it or not ... I don't care


Slavery was a law. DADT was a law. Jim Crow LAWS were laws.

Maybe people should have just dealt with those.



Dear God, save us from progressives, please Lord. If you do I will always call my mother on Sundays and will work the soup kitchen 4 nights a week.

[AmazonTania]

This level of ignorance would have actually been funny if the entire country wasn't inhabited with these people...

[Alyosha]

This level of ignorance would have actually been funny if the entire country wasn't inhabited with these people...

Only about 1/2 (1/4 progressive idiots + 1/4 conservative idiots). Pew Institute found that 50+ of the American people are fiscal conservatives and social liberals, aka "libertarians".

[zelmo1234]

So ... outside of a different PLAN that was actually brought to The US Government ... We NOW have ObamaCare that was made Law ... and upheld by the Supreme Court.

Obama WON the Supper Bowl of Politics ... TWICE ... so you're not getting the Ring or The Trophy back ... now matter how many tantrums you throw.

It's LAW ... deal wit it or not ... I don't care

So now that it is the law, don't you think that the government should enforce the law?

But you and I as business owners don't have to provide insurance like the law states do we.

Unions, big business and Government don't have to pay a premium for their gold plated plans

The government gets to keep their 75% subsidy that is paid on their insurance, even though they make more money than they should to get according to the law?

Why is it that this law is good for some but others get a pass, don't you have a problem with that?

[Green Arrow]

You know, on two separate forums before coming to this place, I heard references to Cigar, always negative. I didn't really know what to make of it until I came here and actually encountered the guy.

I swear, he must be a Propaganda Bot 2000 or something. No human seriously talks this way.

[AmazonTania]

You know, on two separate forums before coming to this place, I heard references to Cigar, always negative. I didn't really know what to make of it until I came here and actually encountered the guy.

I swear, he must be a Propaganda Bot 2000 or something. No human seriously talks this way.

LMAO! @Paperback Writer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=862) said the same thing a while back (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/17092-People-Have-Never-Heard-Of-Obamacare-Exist-(My-Thoughts)?p=380058&viewfull=1#post380058) in my thread about how there were people in this nation who have actually never heard of Obamacare.

Good to see that there are some objective new individuals who see exactly what is going on around here.

[Green Arrow]

LMAO! @Paperback Writer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=862) said the same thing a while back (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/17092-People-Have-Never-Heard-Of-Obamacare-Exist-(My-Thoughts)?p=380058&viewfull=1#post380058) in my thread about how there were people in this nation who have actually never heard of Obamacare.

Good to see that there are some objective new individuals who see exactly what is going on around here.

As my fellows like Alyosha can tell you, I'm rabidly anti-partisan. I don't care that my views make me a leftist and you might be a leftist, if you say something stupid and partisan, I'm going to tell you so. Cigar is 100% partisan propaganda to the point of it being sickening.

[nic34]

First, I am not a Republican so my "plan" would be much different. I believe their plan is to lower costs of healthcare through price publishing and to reduce the cost of insurance by allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines so that there is competition which always lowers prices.

Please, enough with the denial around here.... I wish I had a nickel everytime I see the conservatives around here say they weren't a "republican". Maybe you're not a member of the club, but we all know better....

I'm a registered independent myself, but I'm not in denial that I've voted for a democrat or 2 in my time. :laugh:

[nic34]

As my fellows like @Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863) can tell you, I'm rabidly anti-partisan. I don't care that my views make me a leftist and you might be a leftist, if you say something stupid and partisan, I'm going to tell you so. Cigar is 100% partisan propaganda to the point of it being sickening.

Just like adhearance to atheism is a "religion", you're anti-partisan, and that's being partisan too....:wink:

[Green Arrow]

Just like adhearance to atheism is a "religion", you're anti-partisan, and that's being partisan too....:wink:

Adherence to atheism isn't a religion, though. It's a philosophy. All religions are philosophies, but not all philosophies are religions. Atheism fits under the latter.

Besides, I am anti-partisan. I stopped being partisan after working for McCain's campaign in 2008. My eyes were opened, as it were.

[nic34]

I stopped being partisan after working for McCain's campaign in 2008.

Amazing what losing can do..... but I bet your "philosophy" hasn't changed. :grin:

[BB-35]

Ever try running a business? :rollseyes:

Ever eat a pine tree?

[Green Arrow]

Amazing what losing can do.....

Yes, it's a nice way to reevaluate your life choices. I did, and realized I was an idiot at 17. I fixed that.


but I bet your "philosophy" hasn't changed. :grin:

Oh, I don't know, maybe a little. How many Republicans advocate slashing defense spending, ending all of our wars and not starting new ones, "beating [our] swords into plowshares," and advocating for socialism?

I'll wait.