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View Full Version : Jimmy Carter Todays Middle Class is Yesterday's Poor



Alyosha
10-08-2013, 12:32 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/jimmy-carter-income-gap_n_4062816.html?ir=Business
During an exclusive interview with The Associated Press, he said that years of tax breaks for the wealthy, a minimum wage untethered from the inflation rate and electoral districts drawn to maximize political polarization have reduced the quality of life for all but the richest Americans. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/jimmy-carter-income-gap_n_4062816.html?ir=Business)

Alyosha
10-08-2013, 12:33 PM
The economy is a delicate ecosystem and we've allowed the middle class to bear the responsibility for the poor and the result will be that more people will become poor.

GrassrootsConservative
10-08-2013, 12:38 PM
That garbage about "minimum wage being untethered from the inflation rate" is total crap. Minimum wage is fine, anyone who says otherwise is just bad with their money.

Alyosha
10-08-2013, 12:42 PM
The inflation rates have destroyed the dollar. He is not mistaken in the problems, just in how to fix them. Using government to fix problems cause by government is like using a gun to fix a gunshot wound.

Jimmy Carter is the real deal. He is a kind man and has the best of intentions. Since he left office he has done nothing but try and help people.

The Xl
10-08-2013, 12:43 PM
That garbage about "minimum wage being untethered from the inflation rate" is total crap. Minimum wage is fine, anyone who says otherwise is just bad with their money.

This is baseless conjecture.

GrassrootsConservative
10-08-2013, 12:46 PM
This is baseless conjecture.

It's not "baseless conjecture." It's based on me working at a dishwasher and making minimum wage and being perfectly fine, (until I have to pay $600 a year in 2016 for being a 25 year old with no need for "affordable" insurance) even have some money saved up for an emergency if I have one.

So you calling my words "baseless conjecture" is "baseless conjecture" because I'm saying this from my own experience, not partisan talking points like Jimmy Carter.

roadmaster
10-08-2013, 12:49 PM
Carter wasn't the best President but I did like him as a person. Call me crazy but I think he meant well.

The Xl
10-08-2013, 12:49 PM
It's not "baseless conjecture." It's based on me working at a dishwasher and making minimum wage and being perfectly fine, (until I have to pay $600 a year in 2016 for being a 25 year old with no need for "affordable" insurance) even have some money saved up for an emergency if I have one.

So you calling my words "baseless conjecture" is "baseless conjecture" because I'm saying this from my own experience, not partisan talking points like Jimmy Carter.

You're just one person. Speaking for everyone on minimum wage is baseless conjecture. I don't know where you live, what your expenses are, etc, but not everyone can live off minimum wage, their are many variables. To say otherwise is ignorant, your situation isn't a one size fits all deal. Even you're prepared to blame Obamacare for your future inability to live off said wage. Which isn't much different from people currently being unable to live off it due to higher cost of living, food, etc, and no wage increase.

These fuckers have no right to inflate the currency.

GrassrootsConservative
10-08-2013, 12:54 PM
You're just one person. Speaking for everyone on minimum wage is baseless conjecture. I don't know where you live, what your expenses are, etc, but not everyone can live off minimum wage, their are many variables. To say otherwise is ignorant, your situation isn't a one size fits all deal. Even you're prepared to blame Obamacare for your future inability to live off said wage. Which isn't much different from people currently being unable to live off it due to higher cost of living, food, etc, and no wage increase.

These fuckers have no right to inflate the currency.

We have people on this forum everyday telling us it's impossible to live on minimum wage. Even had one really awful poster tell me she didn't think it was possible to "buy food" with minimum wage money, as if they paid us in frayed shoelaces or something. Minimum wage is fine, it's the greed and unhealthy living of the people who can't afford it that is the problem.

The Xl
10-08-2013, 01:01 PM
We have people on this forum everyday telling us it's impossible to live on minimum wage. Even had one really awful poster tell me she didn't think it was possible to "buy food" with minimum wage money, as if they paid us in frayed shoelaces or something. Minimum wage is fine, it's the greed and unhealthy living of the people who can't afford it that is the problem.

Their are way too many variables for you to make a definitive statement like that. Maybe for a 22 year old with low rent, or a roommate, living with parents, whatever, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

Either way, even for those who can live on it, it's hard and unnecessary. It's also nearly impossible to save or invest in any capacity on minimum wage. Why should anyone suffer because assholes in Washington want to inflate and devalue the currency for the gain of bankers and their fraudulent, gimmick monetary system?

The powers that be sit back and laugh while you call minimum wage earners greedy, while they gain on this fraudulent system, at the expense of everyone else.

GrassrootsConservative
10-08-2013, 01:01 PM
Carter wasn't the best President but I did like him as a person. Call me crazy but I think he meant well.

All Liberal loons think they "mean well," which is the exact problem. I'm sure Obama "means well" with this unaffordable insurance, but that doesn't mean we should support it. Look at where it's actually leading. People who "mean well" instead of brainstorming things through with critical thought to some point in the future where it would take us are the biggest threat to America right now.

GrassrootsConservative
10-08-2013, 01:07 PM
Their are way too many variables for you to make a definitive statement like that. Maybe for a 22 year old with low rent, or a roommate, living with parents, whatever, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

Either way, even for those who can live on it, it's hard and unnecessary.


Baseless conjecture, and I do not have a roommate or live with my parents. I have a house on which I pay everything except for a mortgage, because it is in my family and all paid off, so I just pay utilities, prop. taxes (too much, I'll admit), trash, internet (packaged with cable) and food to live on.

It's not hard and unnecessary at all. I don't calculate my runs to the grocery store and I really don't feel the need to watch my money too hard. I don't know how much I have in the bank, but I know it's enough. Because I'm responsible and know how to manage a budget.

Green Arrow
10-08-2013, 01:13 PM
Baseless conjecture, and I do not have a roommate or live with my parents. I have a house on which I pay everything except for a mortgage, because it is in my family and all paid off, so I just pay utilities, prop. taxes (too much, I'll admit), trash, internet (packaged with cable) and food to live on.

It's not hard and unnecessary at all. I don't calculate my runs to the grocery store and I really don't feel the need to watch my money too hard. I don't know how much I have in the bank, but I know it's enough. Because I'm responsible and know how to manage a budget.

I suppose if you want to ignore the fact that taxes are higher or lower depending on your location, expenses are higher or lower depending on where you live and how many people are in your family, etc.

Again, as The Xl said, you're ignoring the variables.

Alyosha
10-08-2013, 01:14 PM
Baseless conjecture, and I do not have a roommate or live with my parents. I have a house on which I pay everything except for a mortgage, because it is in my family and all paid off, so I just pay utilities, prop. taxes (too much, I'll admit), trash, internet (packaged with cable) and food to live on.


Right, so you have free space/shelter. You don't think that gives you a considerable leg up?

The Xl
10-08-2013, 01:17 PM
Baseless conjecture, and I do not have a roommate or live with my parents. I have a house on which I pay everything except for a mortgage, because it is in my family and all paid off, so I just pay utilities, prop. taxes (too much, I'll admit), trash, internet (packaged with cable) and food to live on.

It's not hard and unnecessary at all. I don't calculate my runs to the grocery store and I really don't feel the need to watch my money too hard. I don't know how much I have in the bank, but I know it's enough. Because I'm responsible and know how to manage a budget.

I have no idea where you live, but most people cannot own their own house, a paid off house, taxes, internet, and cable on minimum wage. You're an exception, and good for you, but it's not the norm.

I don't see why poor people shouldn't be upset, regardless. They are having money stolen from them via inflation. They have every right to be upset.

GrassrootsConservative
10-08-2013, 01:19 PM
Right, so you have free space/shelter. You don't think that gives you a considerable leg up?

I worked for it, it's not really "free," but yes I suppose it might give me a leg up, but still you can get an apartment for less than what I pay monthly for this place.

The Xl
10-08-2013, 01:21 PM
I worked for it, it's not really "free," but yes I suppose it might give me a leg up, but still you can get an apartment for less than what I pay monthly for this place.

Your family paid for the house, no?

The Xl
10-08-2013, 01:30 PM
I don't get it. Poor people get their money stolen and their purchasing power literally wrecked by a gimmicky system, and instead of conservatives acknowledging a legitimate problem and having empathy for people who are the victims of government and banker theft, they're all like, lool fuck the greedy poor.

What? That doesn't even make sense. That's why no one really likes Republicans, and why many have the view they have in regards to conservatives.

Alyosha
10-08-2013, 01:36 PM
I don't get it. Poor people get their money stolen and their purchasing power literally wrecked by a gimmicky system, and instead of conservatives acknowledging a legitimate problem and having empathy for people who are the victims of government and banker theft, they're all like, lool fuck the greedy poor.

What? That doesn't even make sense. That's why no one really likes Republicans, and why many have the view they have in regards to conservatives.

100% this.

Inflation goes up, COI is stagnant, wages stagnant, but blame poor people. What?

AmazonTania
10-08-2013, 05:12 PM
I don't get it. Poor people get their money stolen and their purchasing power literally wrecked by a gimmicky system, and instead of conservatives acknowledging a legitimate problem and having empathy for people who are the victims of government and banker theft, they're all like, lool fuck the greedy poor.

What? That doesn't even make sense. That's why no one really likes Republicans, and why many have the view they have in regards to conservatives.

That may be true, but they are not wrong. Measuring inflation is as much of a science as an art. I can use many different inflation metric -- no less respected than the CPI -- to show that wages have actually be rising, not falling.

Codename Section
10-08-2013, 05:24 PM
That may be true, but they are not wrong. Measuring inflation is as much of a science as an art. I can use many different inflation metric -- no less respected than the CPI -- to show that wages have actually be rising, not falling.

Are wages rising proportionally to what the COI is?

Anyway, the point is that most poor and middle class people don't have Bernanke's job nor that type of influence over the economy but they are the ones feeling the brunt of those decisions and being penalized for the mistakes of those at the top.

AmazonTania
10-08-2013, 05:51 PM
Are wages rising proportionally to what the COI is?

Anyway, the point is that most poor and middle class people don't have Bernanke's job nor that type of influence over the economy but they are the ones feeling the brunt of those decisions and being penalized for the mistakes of those at the top.

Not even the BLS can determine it's inflation relative to the cost of living, which is why measuring inflation is tricky, and why a single index should be taken with a grain of salt (especially the CPI). If anything, you can measure average hourly wage with the PCE Deflator -- which actually measures the cost of living because the PCE Deflator measures the price paid for all consumer purchases -- and you will get a different result. The GDP Deflator is sort of the same, but it doesn't measure the cost-of-living the same because it measures the price paid for all expenditures, not consumer prices.


http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=nbH



Regular Blue: Average Hourly Earnings/CPI-U
Bold Red: Average Hourly Earnings/PCE Deflator
Bold Green: Average Hourly Earnings/GDP Deflator

As you can see, when you adjust the average hourly wage with the CPI, you'll see that real wages have fallen. However, when you adjust wages for the PCE and GDP deflator, you'll see that real wages have increased.

No doubt that there is plenty of inflation today and it's increasing the cost of living, but it's not entirely true that real wages have fallen. That all depends on the yard stick you use to measure, and what forms of compensation you are measuring. Also it's very difficult to determine the improvements of quality of goods and services simply by measuring wage to inflation. An automobile might have been much cheaper 50 or 60 years ago, and you would have felt ripped off if you didn't get 10,000 miles to the gallon. However, today automobiles can do much more than they could have 50 or 60 years ago, despite the increase in price. Also, when you are accounting wages for the cost of living, you have to include all forms of compensation, including wages and benefits.

It's a complex issue, and it's really not as simple as point out how the minimum wage buys less. Especially when 4% of the labour force earns the minimum wage anyway...

Codename Section
10-08-2013, 05:54 PM
I actually judge it by the cost of food. The rest you can sort of negotiate with. "Good" food is expensive these days.

AmazonTania
10-08-2013, 05:55 PM
I actually judge it by the cost of food. The rest you can sort of negotiate with. "Good" food is expensive these days.

The powers that be has gotten around that with a little trick called Substitutions.

Common
10-08-2013, 06:23 PM
I cant stand Jimmy Carter and I believe he was the worst president in my lifetime, but hes right on the mark with his statements and all the facts proves hes right.

Codename Section
10-08-2013, 06:25 PM
I cant stand Jimmy Carter and I believe he was the worst president in my lifetime, but hes right on the mark with his statements and all the facts proves hes right.

I wasn't alive then so I just know history.