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View Full Version : Senate Dems to call GOPís bluff on debt limit



Cigar
10-09-2013, 07:30 AM
Senate Democrats are planning to start the process this week for a Senate vote on a clean debt limit increase, sources tell me Ė a move that could call the bluff of Republicans in both chambers and force them to take a stand on whether they will allow default and economic destruction if Dems donít accept their unilateral demands.

The move has the backing of the White House, according to a source familiar with discussions.

The idea is that Senate Dems will move their own clean debt limit bill, rather than wait for the House GOP to hold its own vote on either a clean CR funding the government (which Senate Dems have already passed with broad bipartisan support) or on a debt limit hike. Dems would be challenging Senate GOP moderates to vote for or against averting default and economic havoc outside of any set of conditions House Republicans insist must be attached to any measure raising the debt limit.

Senator John Cornyn is claiming no clean debt limit hike can pass the Senate, but Dems believe there may be at least half a dozen GOP Senators who would be willing to support one. A vote would put that to the test.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/10/07/senate-dems-to-call-gops-bluff-on-debt-limit/

http://dribbble.s3.amazonaws.com/users/21604/screenshots/184205/game-time-t-shirt-idea.jpg

Peter1469
10-09-2013, 09:50 AM
Not increasing the debt ceiling has nothing to do with default.

nic34
10-09-2013, 09:53 AM
Not paying our debts, even just some of them is default.

Now, which ones do we pay.....?????

keymanjim
10-09-2013, 09:56 AM
Not paying our debts, even just some of them is default.

Now, which ones do we pay.....?????
There is more than enough money coming into the government everyday to service our debt. The only reason why we would go into default is if your obama decides to do it. And, from what I've seem of this petty, little man, he would do just that.

Cigar
10-09-2013, 10:00 AM
Not increasing the debt ceiling has nothing to do with default.

... and neither does The Affordable Care Act :wink:

So tell me again ... why is the GOP doing this?

Mainecoons
10-09-2013, 10:01 AM
For those of you who don't think there's a problem with government in D.C. or for those of you who are so stupid they blame it on one side. . .


Rally for Illegal Aliens on 'Closed' National Mall... (http://washingtonexaminer.com/signs-say-national-mall-closed-but-immigration-reform-rally-is-a-go/article/2536957)

Lawmakers ride in on golf carts... (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/08/Pro-amnesty-forces-rally-on-National-Mall)

Arrests... (http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/police-arrest-congressmen-protesters-at-immigration-rally-outside-capitol-20131008)

PELOSI THANKS OBAMA FOR SPECIAL TREATMENT... (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/8/nps-accused-gestapo-tactics-enforce-shutdown/)

Unpaid Capitol Police forced to pick up protesters' trash... (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/08/Democratic-congressmen-amnesty-activists-get-arrested-in-immigration-protest)

HORROR IN THE HOUSE: Members forced to reuse gym towels at private gym... (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/327299-shutdown-leaves-lawmakers-reusing-their-towels-at-house-gym#ixzz2hATafQO1)Feds post 4,000 job-opening ads during shutdown... (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/8/thousands-of-federal-job-openings-posted-in-spite-/)

U.S. Adds 2 Times More Debt than Economic Output in Last 2 Years... (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/us-adds-two-times-more-debt-economic-output-last-2-years_762311.html)

Tensions Ratchet Up in Debt Battle... (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303442004579123261026449496.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories)

Cantor to Obama: Quit Mocking Congress... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eric-cantor-divided-government-requires-bipartisan-negotiation/2013/10/08/98f6b7e6-3062-11e3-bbed-a8a60c601153_print.html)

Reid wants $1 Trillion MORE... (http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/327363-reid-wants-1t-debt-hike-to-end-of-2014)

CANCER TREATMENTS DEFUNDED, BIG BIRD RECEIVES $445 MILLION... (http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/10/08/government-gives-445-million-to-corporation-for-public-broadcasting-on-first/)


PARK RANGERS TURN 'GESTAPO'... (http://www.newburyportnews.com/local/x1442580373/Gestapo-tactics-meet-senior-citizens-at-Yellowstone)

Visitors play 'catch me if you can'... (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2013/1008/Defying-government-shutdown-national-park-visitors-play-catch-me-if-you-can)

21 People Given Citations For Entering Grand Canyon; Mandatory Order To Appear In Federal Court... (http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2013/10/08/grand-canyon-cites-people-for-entering-closed-park/)

Read em and weep.

zelmo1234
10-09-2013, 10:06 AM
Not paying our debts, even just some of them is default.

Now, which ones do we pay.....?????

No this is not true, It is a lie. and you have bought into it!

there are departments that will be shut down. And there are lots of them that could be made much much smaller, and having them shut down for a while will let the people see that they are a waste.

the interest on the debt is about 18 billion a month, we bring in 232 billion a month, that is enough to pay, SS Disability, the Military the FBI, CIA, Medicare and Medicaid.

There are a lot of bullshit things that will be shut down.

This President like most of the President is a liar. and you have to take that into account

zelmo1234
10-09-2013, 10:08 AM
... and neither does The Affordable Care Act :wink:

So tell me again ... why is the GOP doing this?

Actually you are correct today?

However the ACA over time is the tool that leads to insolvency!

nic34
10-09-2013, 10:09 AM
Four Reasons Debt Ceiling Breach Means Default

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/10/07/debt_ceiling_breach_default.html

Libhater
10-09-2013, 10:12 AM
No this is not true, It is a lie. and you have bought into it!

there are departments that will be shut down. And there are lots of them that could be made much much smaller, and having them shut down for a while will let the people see that they are a waste.

the interest on the debt is about 18 billion a month, we bring in 232 billion a month, that is enough to pay, SS Disability, the Military the FBI, CIA, Medicare and Medicaid.

There are a lot of bullshit things that will be shut down.

This President like most of the President is a liar. and you have to take that into account

Looks like these socialists need a refresher course on all of the wasteful government programs. Would it do any good to these govt whores for me to repost the TOP 10 most useless government agencies?

Peter1469
10-09-2013, 10:15 AM
A default will only occur if the government deliberately does it. It has nothing to do with the debt ceiling.

zelmo1234
10-09-2013, 10:17 AM
Here is the thing? You can pay each and everyone of the bills? with the money we take in?

What you can't do is pay all of the current employee's and keep all of the departments open.

We have tons of federal employees making 6 figures and many, many more making well over the national average in income. When they are laid off they will make about 400 dollars a week and the states are in for part of that money.

So what will have to happen is they will have to close departments down and lay people off, So the EPA is gone.

The DOE is gone, all military items on order are put on hold, no new planes, ships, ect

then all other departments will have to cut back and Obama will not be able to afford the police that are keeping the national parks closed right now, so they will be open once again.

When the recession hit in 2009 I had to let people go and downsize to adapt to the current level of business. So did I default?

Of course not. I changed my expenses.

That way all of the bills are paid and life goes on.

Mainecoons
10-09-2013, 10:18 AM
Try a more credible source, Moody's, and a more credible discussion, Nic.

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/07/moodys-dismisses-default-talk-says-us-will-pay-bills-even-if-debt-ceiling-not-lifted/

Default is ONLY if obligations on already issued securities are not paid. Default is not shutting down crap like the Department of Education or all those agricultural subsidies paid to mostly corporate farmers. It is not stopping the waste and fraud of all those "alternative energy investments."

Default is not ending the foreign military misadventurism of the Pentagon and cutting the military budget in half.

Default is not paying on the bonds.

Is it better to have the confrontation now, or wait until the Federal government doubles its debt in just a few short years?

Cigar
10-09-2013, 10:32 AM
A default will only occur if the government deliberately does it. It has nothing to do with the debt ceiling.

Exactly ... :dankk2:

Now did you notice how the personal attacks ramp up and the links to facts ramp down.

I keep asking for facts and all I get are personal attacks :laugh:

nic34
10-09-2013, 10:43 AM
Try a more credible source, Moody's, and a more credible discussion, Nic.

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/07/moodys-dismisses-default-talk-says-us-will-pay-bills-even-if-debt-ceiling-not-lifted/

Default is ONLY if obligations on already issued securities are not paid. Default is not shutting down crap like the Department of Education or all those agricultural subsidies paid to mostly corporate farmers. It is not stopping the waste and fraud of all those "alternative energy investments."

Default is not ending the foreign military misadventurism of the Pentagon and cutting the military budget in half.

Default is not paying on the bonds.

Is it better to have the confrontation now, or wait until the Federal government doubles its debt in just a few short years?

Treasury Dept. not credible enough for you? HA HA HA!

Besides, your compadre there debunks "moodys" everytime I use it as a source....

You're really reaching there, buddy! :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Mainecoons
10-09-2013, 10:46 AM
When do you ever use anything as credible as Moody's?

Making stuff up again?

I don't post for Chris and he doesn't post for me. Just more of your ad hom, genius.

You're not my buddy. I don't hang around with stupid people.

I notice that you stayed away from explaining why you don't understand what a default really is.

Per usual.

nic34
10-09-2013, 10:57 AM
He doesn't like moodys cite on multipliers... yeah, ask him.

http://www.economy.com/dismal/article_free.asp?cid=121314&src=msnbc

As for this ignorance:


“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him had better take a closer look at the American Indian.”. Henry Ford


Says the guy who's entire industry relied on massive government investment in roads, infrastructure, and the development of cities in a way that encouraged car use (much of it on lands which were "acquired" from Native Americans).

Try again hypocrite.

Alyosha
10-09-2013, 11:18 AM
According to the Constitution which pretty much no longer exists since Bush and Obama pissed on it then set fire to it, the House is in charge of the purse strings. Why? Because the House of Representatives was created in such a way to best represent the American population, not the states, ergo putting the will of the American people in charge of the money.

I understand that petty partisans of both sides of the aisle like to forget this fact when it is not convenient, but, yes children, we have a representative democracy/republic so that the will of the people will be done.

nic34
10-09-2013, 01:39 PM
According to the Constitution which pretty much no longer exists since Bush and Obama pissed on it then set fire to it

They've said that since before you were born..... a golden oldie of hyperbole....:laugh:

jillian
10-09-2013, 01:41 PM
According to the Constitution which pretty much no longer exists since Bush and Obama pissed on it then set fire to it, the House is in charge of the purse strings. Why? Because the House of Representatives was created in such a way to best represent the American population, not the states, ergo putting the will of the American people in charge of the money.

I understand that petty partisans of both sides of the aisle like to forget this fact when it is not convenient, but, yes children, we have a representative democracy/republic so that the will of the people will be done.

you know Alyosha, the things they did, whether i liked them or not, whether i agreed with them or not, all passed judicial scrutiny. that makes them constitutional.

you can like that or not, but until a better (liberal) court says otherwise, that's what its going to be.

Mainecoons
10-09-2013, 01:49 PM
You are confusing with what she is saying about the Constitution with your own agenda again. She did not comment on the Constitutionality of ObamaCare, she commented on the Constitutionality of the House's refusal to fund it.

Until and unless the Supreme Court decides all or part of the law is not Constitutional, it is so by definition. No disagreement there but that was not the point she made.

Under our system of laws, first a law is passed and then the money is appropriated to implement it. That appropriation must originate in the House under the Constitution.

The House are being stupid IMO but they are acting within their authority as granted by the Constitution.

jillian
10-09-2013, 01:52 PM
You are confusing with what she is saying about the Constitution with your own agenda again. She did not comment on the Constitutionality of ObamaCare, she commented on the Constitutionality of the House's refusal to fund it.

Until and unless the Supreme Court decides all or part of the law is not Constitutional, it is so by definition. No disagreement there but that was not the point she made.

Under our system of laws, first a law is passed and then the money is appropriated to implement it. That appropriation must originate in the House under the Constitution.

The House are being stupid IMO but they are acting within their authority as granted by the Constitution.

when has the house ever threatened to destroy the full faith and credit of the US government because a 30th of our government decided it didn't like something that was legislated, signed into law and upheld by the Court?

Mainecoons
10-09-2013, 01:54 PM
That's not the point that I was trying to educate you on. And your post is just another false partisan rant. It has already been established that the government is quite capable of avoiding default for quite a while.

nic34
10-09-2013, 03:55 PM
when has the house ever threatened to destroy the full faith and credit of the US government because a 30th of our government decided it didn't like something that was legislated, signed into law and upheld by the Court?

Maybe the dems can shut it all down to get the gun control legislation they want.....

....or the next neo-con war.... yeah, see how far that would go.:wink:

AmazonTania
10-09-2013, 04:02 PM
Not paying our debts, even just some of them is default.

Now, which ones do we pay.....?????

Perhaps you can explain, in the most coherent manner possible, how it is possible for the Treasury, which has to pay at least $400 million in interest a day, to default on it's obligations when it receives over $100 billion in deposits a day.

Mainecoons
10-09-2013, 05:03 PM
Poor Nic is still confused about what default is despite our best efforts all day to make it as simple as possible for him.

Someone needs to send him a Little Golden Reader level explanation. :grin:

AmazonTania
10-09-2013, 05:10 PM
I can write an entire thread on this and people still will fail to understand.

Which is why I won't, but defaulting is not as simple as not raising the debt ceiling. How people cannot see this is beyond me.

Mainecoons
10-09-2013, 05:24 PM
Most of us here on various sides of the political spectrum understand it very well. Don't judge the whole board by the standards of a few truly simpleminded partisan hacks who have some obsessive compulsion to come here daily and make complete fools of themselves.

You know whom I'm referring to. No amount of explanation will enable them to understand. There just isn't sufficient brain power even if you put all five of them together.

Alyosha
10-09-2013, 05:29 PM
when has the house ever threatened to destroy the full faith and credit of the US government because a 30th of our government decided it didn't like something that was legislated, signed into law and upheld by the Court?

That's quite specific and emotional. You're acting like the Senate and President have nothing to do with it.

Didn't the real mother in the Solomon tale offer to give up the baby to save it's life? Guess it shows how much both parties and all three branches hate us.

Mainecoons
10-09-2013, 05:30 PM
Jillian is so partisan she is pathological about it. You can't reason with that mentality.

Alyosha
10-09-2013, 05:32 PM
I can write an entire thread on this and people still will fail to understand.

Which is why I won't, but defaulting is not as simple as not raising the debt ceiling. How people cannot see this is beyond me.


You have to understand that progressives don't watch news, they watch news opinion programs. The American public is so dumbed down that if you cannot explain something in less than 3 minutes they don't bother.

Soundbytes are all that matter.

Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow are telling people that is what it's all about, ergo it must be true. Democrats never lie to people. Only Republicans lie. There aren't even leftwing extremists. Only rightwing extremists.

It's quite frightening to know that these people were able to lock down the urban centers with this foolishness. It's like living among pod people.

Some of them actually tear up with Obama speaks. Spooky.