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Chris
10-14-2013, 10:31 AM
http://i.snag.gy/yDJpF.jpg

^^^ The look of failure.


One more: “Amid the government shutdown, 60% of Americans say the Democratic and Republicans parties do such a poor job of representing the American people that a third major party is needed. That is the highest Gallup has measured in the 10-year history of this question. A new low of 26% believe the two major parties adequately represent Americans.”


@ Throw the &#$@%* bums out (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/13/curl-throw-the-bums-out/#ixzz2hi7z03Nj)

Captain Obvious
10-14-2013, 10:36 AM
I truly don't believe a 3rd (or more) party changes the political culture here in the long run. In the short run maybe, but the system is such that when a 3rd party becomes legitimate, it will be because it's a product of the system - bought and paid for.

Our political process creates these anomalies, we are simply replacing one crook with another.

Want to fix the political culture? Fix the system, not just add new raw materials.

And the system will never be fixed - not without violence.

Codename Section
10-14-2013, 10:37 AM
I truly don't believe a 3rd (or more) party changes the political culture here in the long run. In the short run maybe, but the system is such that when a 3rd party becomes legitimate, it will be because it's a product of the system - bought and paid for.

Our political process creates these anomalies, we are simply replacing one crook with another.

Want to fix the political culture? Fix the system, not just add new raw materials.

And the system will never be fixed - not without violence.

That's the tough truth right there. I've thought about that one a lot.

nic34
10-14-2013, 10:38 AM
Throw the &#$@%* bums out

And replace them with......?????

Captain Obvious
10-14-2013, 10:39 AM
And replace them with......?????

More bums.

The definition of insanity is...

nic34
10-14-2013, 10:41 AM
^^^ yup ^^^

Mainecoons
10-14-2013, 10:42 AM
You left one out:

4281

Otherwise, I couldn't agree more. And impose term limits to avoid a repeat.

We can have better leadership but we must toss the governing elite and the incumbency and money flow that keeps them there.

We haven't always had leadership like this. It isn't a given.

Cigar
10-14-2013, 10:59 AM
http://i.snag.gy/yDJpF.jpg

^^^ The look of failure.




@ Throw the &#$@%* bums out (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/13/curl-throw-the-bums-out/#ixzz2hi7z03Nj)


What ... you mean via the Democratic Election Process ... would you honor the results? :rollseyes:

Or cry like a baby until you get your way?

Cigar
10-14-2013, 11:00 AM
And replace them with......?????

Are they appointing people now and abandoning the Election Process?

Because well ... they can never get the majority Votes :laugh:

Chris
10-14-2013, 11:01 AM
I'd throw the bums out. I don't think I'd replace them.

Cthulhu
10-14-2013, 11:16 AM
And replace them with......?????

...why replace them?

nic34
10-14-2013, 11:24 AM
So what form of government do you anarchists prefer or not....?

Good luck.

Chris
10-14-2013, 11:58 AM
So what form of government do you anarchists prefer or not....?

Good luck.

The question is somewhat oxymoronish. Anarchy is no government. There are three or four threads on the topic in the last several days.

Good luck with your failing government.

Cigar
10-14-2013, 11:59 AM
So what form of government do you anarchists prefer or not....?

Good luck.

The one they win all the time .... because they can't handle losing

nic34
10-14-2013, 12:01 PM
The question is somewhat oxymoronish

It was tounge-in-cheek.... didn't you get that?

Chris
10-14-2013, 01:39 PM
It was tounge-in-cheek.... didn't you get that?

IOW, you bit your tongue.

Chris
10-14-2013, 05:18 PM
@ http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2013/10/13/the-purple-nation-president-obama-once-envisioned-has-grown-into-hues-deeper-red-and-blue/xxGBjFlwZXTRMp7kEx2F0I/story.html

http://i.snag.gy/uQvVi.jpg

^^^ The look of failure.

Mainecoons
10-14-2013, 05:56 PM
It was tounge-in-cheek.... didn't you get that?

No, that doesn't work any better for you than your attempts at sarcasm.

The problem, Nic, is that you have left pretty much all of us, with the exception of the few who are as partisan as you are, with the impression that you are unable to think outside of your partisan prison. You have certainly made similar partisan nonsense statements without claiming tongue in cheek or sarcasm.

Comprende?

Chris
10-14-2013, 09:29 PM
Local news just reported a poll that 60% of Americans now want the entire Senate and House replaced.

Another that 60% of Americans are ready for a third party.

GrassrootsConservative
10-14-2013, 09:40 PM
I truly don't believe a 3rd (or more) party changes the political culture here in the long run. In the short run maybe, but the system is such that when a 3rd party becomes legitimate, it will be because it's a product of the system - bought and paid for.

Our political process creates these anomalies, we are simply replacing one crook with another.

Want to fix the political culture? Fix the system, not just add new raw materials.

And the system will never be fixed - not without violence.

I was just about to say to Chris that I don't think a 3rd party is going to do much for fixing America. Even if they somehow happened to be successful.

roadmaster
10-14-2013, 09:50 PM
Local news just reported a poll that 60% of Americans now want the entire Senate and House replaced.

Another that 60% of Americans are ready for a third party. Well they should have woke up when Perot was running. At least he knew what he was doing while warning us are jobs were going overseas.

Captain Obvious
10-14-2013, 10:04 PM
Local news just reported a poll that 60% of Americans now want the entire Senate and House replaced.

Another that 60% of Americans are ready for a third party.

But isn't this the same shit all over again?

Americans want change - change for the sake of change, they have the power to bring real change but it will never happen. Vote incumbents out of office and replace them with more products of the same system. Isn't it always (or virtually generally) the candidate with the biggest campaign chest who wins? Isn't it generally always the candidate who slings the most mud who wins?

Isn't it usually voters choosing the lesser of two evils? Or voting against a candidate?

And once these candidates are elected, how are they held to a standard? Not reelecting them is the only one I can think of, but how often does that newly elected candidate simply become another cog in a broken system?

If your lawnmower is a piece of shit, putting different oil in it isn't going to solve the problem.

Axiomatic
10-14-2013, 11:35 PM
The one they win all the time .... because they can't handle losing

We don't have much experience with it.

You guys have nothing. We can go on for days listing reasons to believe that government is an unnecessary sham, that you're a sucker for falling for it, and you have nothing meaningful to say to any of it.

KC
10-15-2013, 01:19 AM
But isn't this the same shit all over again?

Americans want change - change for the sake of change, they have the power to bring real change but it will never happen. Vote incumbents out of office and replace them with more products of the same system. Isn't it always (or virtually generally) the candidate with the biggest campaign chest who wins? Isn't it generally always the candidate who slings the most mud who wins?

Isn't it usually voters choosing the lesser of two evils? Or voting against a candidate?

And once these candidates are elected, how are they held to a standard? Not reelecting them is the only one I can think of, but how often does that newly elected candidate simply become another cog in a broken system?

If your lawnmower is a piece of shit, putting different oil in it isn't going to solve the problem.

Right. There is no viable solution. We're damned no matter what we do.

zelmo1234
10-15-2013, 03:39 AM
Actually the solution may come through insolvency.

When the money runs out, there will be a fight for the country.

Liberals like Obama, Polosie and Reid, will move quickly for Communism with them in charge. they will try and rally the people against the wealthy, except for them of course.

There will be a brief period of massive violence, as those that have never worked for themselves try and take from others.

There will be real suffering in the country. But there will be a return to reality and the people will see there is no free lunch.

The people have figured out how to vote themselves a check. they will continue to do so until the money is gone.

And here is the sad part. I find myself being less and less concerned for there welfare when it does fall apart.

I guess I see it as you voted to ruin the country, if your price to pay is starvation, you get what you asked for!

jillian
10-15-2013, 05:33 AM
^^^ The look of failure.




@ Throw the &#$@%* bums out (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/13/curl-throw-the-bums-out/#ixzz2hi7z03Nj)

the problem is that a few loons think it's cute not to work so they can tantrum.

that isn't a bi-partisan fail. (and i don't have to like either pelosi or reid to say that the wacko right needs to go)

not that someone who hates gubmint cares ... so long as the gubmint isn't working. right, chris?

zelmo1234
10-15-2013, 07:09 AM
It is interesting that neither Republicans, Democrats or the President have a approval over 50%

Maybe we will get some new blood

Chris
10-15-2013, 07:11 AM
I was just about to say to Chris that I don't think a 3rd party is going to do much for fixing America. Even if they somehow happened to be successful.


It might very well not. But three would upset the duopoly.

Chris
10-15-2013, 07:14 AM
But isn't this the same shit all over again?

Americans want change - change for the sake of change, they have the power to bring real change but it will never happen. Vote incumbents out of office and replace them with more products of the same system. Isn't it always (or virtually generally) the candidate with the biggest campaign chest who wins? Isn't it generally always the candidate who slings the most mud who wins?

Isn't it usually voters choosing the lesser of two evils? Or voting against a candidate?

And once these candidates are elected, how are they held to a standard? Not reelecting them is the only one I can think of, but how often does that newly elected candidate simply become another cog in a broken system?

If your lawnmower is a piece of shit, putting different oil in it isn't going to solve the problem.


If it's more of the same (like Obama is more of Bush), and that might be the case to become popular enough, then no. But what it if were a third lawnmower you could turn to when the other two are broken.

Chris
10-15-2013, 07:16 AM
the problem is that a few loons think it's cute not to work so they can tantrum.

that isn't a bi-partisan fail. (and i don't have to like either pelosi or reid to say that the wacko right needs to go)

not that someone who hates gubmint cares ... so long as the gubmint isn't working. right, chris?


Oh, stop with your repeated memes, jillian. Come up with some new lines.


You do realize if 60% of the country see both sides at fault, then your partisan view is the outlier.

Chris
10-15-2013, 07:41 AM
If you're at all wondering why these bums get elected, read this and stop wondering: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/17641-How-disingenuous-do-you-have-to-be.

Cigar
10-15-2013, 07:44 AM
gerrymandering

jillian
10-15-2013, 07:56 AM
If you're at all wondering why these bums get elected, read this and stop wondering: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/17641-How-disingenuous-do-you-have-to-be.

i didn't vote for ted cruz or the imbecile mike lee and i'd never have cast a vote for sarah barracuda.

so i don't know what you're talking about.

see, the problem is, you're not credible... you have to actually want to be constructive for us not to laugh at you.

jillian
10-15-2013, 07:57 AM
gerrymandering

well, that's certainly what makes the loons not care that they're marginal

Chris
10-15-2013, 07:59 AM
i didn't vote for ted cruz or the imbecile mike lee and i'd never have cast a vote for sarah barracuda.

so i don't know what you're talking about.

see, the problem is, you're not credible... you have to actually want to be constructive for us not to laugh at you.


I'm talking about the utter stupidity expressed in your troll thread. That's what gets the OP bums elected.




see, the problem is, you're not credible... you have to actually want to be constructive for us not to laugh at you.

Thanks for coming out of the troll closet.

Chris
10-15-2013, 08:00 AM
well, that's certainly what makes the loons not care that they're marginal

Again, if 60% of Americans blame both parties, you're partisan hackery is marginal.

Chris
10-15-2013, 10:24 AM
Seems to me at least one major party is concerned about third parties:

Ohio Republicans Attempt to Eliminate Minor Parties; Libertarians and Greens Push Back (http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/14/ohio-republicans-attempt-to-eliminate-mi)


A bill in Ohio that effectively derails any ongoing minor party campaigns and may have long-term repercussions for such parties was approved by the state senate last week. Libertarians and Greens in the state, who called the Republican-backed bill “The John Kasich Protection Act,” believe it is unconstitutional and are fighting to stop it.

...Dr. Bob Fitrakis, a political science professor and former Green Party candidate, believes that the bill is unconstitutional and has already testified at several hearings about it. He said his party will sue the state if necessary. “They're punishing us for not meeting a nonexistent standard in 2012. ... They're throwing everyone off the ballot who didn't meet this standard that wasn't in existence. It's a clear violation of due process.” He added, “They'll be throwing two elected [Green Party] officials off their ballots based off their party designation.”

“[The Republicans] are clearly going after the Libertarians... who have some tea party support,” Fitrakis said. “We're collateral damage.” All but one Republican voted for S.B. 193, while no Democrat did.

Libertarian Party of Ohio Spokesman Aaron Keith Harris also believes the legislation is unconstitutional. He pointed to LPO v. Blackwell, which in 2006 struck down a similar ballot access law. He contended that it is unreasonable to hold a state party accountable for the votes earned by a national party candidate. Harris confirmed that the Libertarian Party is attending hearings to contest the legislation....

nic34
10-15-2013, 10:47 AM
If you're at all wondering why these bums get elected, read this and stop wondering: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/17641-How-disingenuous-do-you-have-to-be.

They get elected because they kowtow to low information voters in 3 corner hats with con-fed flags that are worried about their national monument and their medicare and SS....

Alyosha
10-15-2013, 11:43 AM
i didn't vote for ted cruz or the imbecile mike lee and i'd never have cast a vote for sarah barracuda.

so i don't know what you're talking about.

see, the problem is, you're not credible... you have to actually want to be constructive for us not to laugh at you.


Why should partisans have credibility?

You'd have to once admit Obama was wrong about something without a "but" following it for you to be credible on an issue, and you can't do that. If you admit he's been a disappointment you have to add something about Bush or Republicans.

I just see that as business as usual, and why nothing every changes.

When we don't demand better of our pols and make excuses for them, nothing changes or will change.

Alyosha
10-15-2013, 11:43 AM
I will continue to vote third party because it is the only way I can cast a "no" vote.

Chris
10-15-2013, 12:55 PM
They get elected because they kowtow to low information voters in 3 corner hats with con-fed flags that are worried about their national monument and their medicare and SS....

It probably took you 30 minutes to make that up, what a masterpiece!

Chris
10-15-2013, 12:57 PM
It probably took you 30 minutes to make that up, what a masterpiece!

I found this effective:

http://i.snag.gy/jRlPQ.jpg

Maybe the right candidate shows up, I'll vote again.