Tea Party and Medicaid

[bladimz]

http://goo.gl/BGW1Y2 (http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/18244-tea-partier-with-ten-children-on-medicaid-denounces-government-involvement-in-health-insurance)


Tea Partier With Ten Children on Medicaid Denounces Government Involvement in Health Insurance

A short time back, NBC News posted an article profiling some of the diehard anti-Obamacare Americans. It was a portrait in hypocrisy, or perhaps something more than that -- irreconciable imbecility.

Take Greg Collett:

“I don’t think that the government should be involved in health care or health insurance,” says Greg Collett, a 41-year-old software developer in Caldwell, Idaho, who would rather pay the fine for now -- $95 the first year -- than signup....

Collett counts himself among the 29 percent of people who said in an NBCNews/Kaiser poll they are angry about the health reform law. “The issue for me is that it is not the proper role of government,” he said.

Collett, who is married and has 10 children, says the kids are covered by Medicaid, the joint state-federal health insurance plan for people with low income and children who are not covered.Give the guy a break. He's only 41. Give him some time, and i'm sure he'll figure it out.

I'm sure he, like so many others, doesn't understand or want to understand how these government-funded programs work. But he should at least know that they are indeed government programs. Imagine him buying private insurance for his family.

[Cigar]

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

[Codename Section]

Medicaid and Obamacare are two entirely different animals. I'd expand Medicaid before saying "yes" to Obamacare. If you guys truly don't see the difference between both of those then I have to question how involved you are in politics or what's going on in the country.

Do I need to 'splain the difference between them to you?

[bladimz]

I guess i wouldn't mind an explain an explanation... As long as you can tell me why a guy who is using a program created and funded by the government would tell us that the government shouldn't be involved in health care.

[patrickt]

He did explain. Medicaid is not Obamacare. I realize liberals like to pretend that if someone supports helping deserving poor people then they want a totally socialist government and total government control.

It has to be that way for the Obama and his minions but not for normal people.

[jillian]

http://goo.gl/BGW1Y2 (http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/18244-tea-partier-with-ten-children-on-medicaid-denounces-government-involvement-in-health-insurance)

Give the guy a break. He's only 41. Give him some time, and i'm sure he'll figure it out.

I'm sure he, like so many others, doesn't understand or want to understand how these government-funded programs work. But he should at least know that they are indeed government programs. Imagine him buying private insurance for his family.

They love them some gubmint benefits. Lmao

[AmazonTania]

I guess i wouldn't mind an explain an explanation... As long as you can tell me why a guy who is using a program created and funded by the government would tell us that the government shouldn't be involved in health care.

Because it makes health care more expensive...

I'd use Medicare too if the Government would let me. Why not take advantage of a sweet gig.

[Chris]

I guess i wouldn't mind an explain an explanation... As long as you can tell me why a guy who is using a program created and funded by the government would tell us that the government shouldn't be involved in health care.

Why does being against something imply you can't use it when needed? I don't like my home and auto insurance, too expensive, but I use it. I don't like having a landline, but need one for home security. I don't like pea but I'll eat them. You're trying too hard to find hypocrisy.

[bladimz]

He did explain. Medicaid is not Obamacare. I realize liberals like to pretend that if someone supports helping deserving poor people then they want a totally socialist government and total government control.

It has to be that way for the Obama and his minions but not for normal people.
Nuts. I missed that explanation. But you didn't disappoint. See, i thought that medicaid was the ACA. So what would be right and fair would be to see our government rescind the ACA and totally eliminate medicaid. That would get our meddling gov't out of health care once and for all. Dammit.

Go back and read the OP article. The basic premise either eluded you or you just prefer to deny its validity.

[bladimz]

Because it makes health care more expensive...

I'd use Medicare too if the Government would let me. Why not take advantage of a sweet gig.But the idea is apparently get government's nose out of health care. Based on that, the element that espouses that would stand against medicaid and demand its elimination. After all, there is no medicaid without the "nose".

[Chris]

But the idea is apparently get government's nose out of health care. Based on that, the element that espouses that would stand against medicaid and demand its elimination. After all, there is no medicaid without the "nose".

Are you saying you won't use government till it's got its nose completely in it?

[bladimz]

Why does being against something imply you can't use it when needed? I don't like my home and auto insurance, too expensive, but I use it. I don't like having a landline, but need one for home security. I don't like pea but I'll eat them. You're trying too hard to find hypocrisy.Using something that you declare morally and/or ideologically objectionable, because it's available to you... i would call that hypocrisy.

I don't understand why you wouldn't.

[AmazonTania]

But the idea is apparently get government's nose out of health care. Based on that, the element that espouses that would stand against medicaid and demand its elimination. After all, there is no medicaid without the "nose".

The idea is that no good comes when the government is heavily involved in health care.

That doesn't mean that we can't take advantage of it. I don't think the Government should be involved in Health Care either, but if the Government is going to be stupid enough to offer me free stuff, I'll take it. It only hurts everyone else, and the nation in the long run.

[patrickt]

But the idea is apparently get government's nose out of health care. Based on that, the element that espouses that would stand against medicaid and demand its elimination. After all, there is no medicaid without the "nose".

Liberals do like the all or nothing argument.

[bladimz]

Are you saying you won't use government till it's got its nose completely in it?I don't demand government involvement.

[bladimz]

Liberals do like the all or nothing argument.Yeah. Boy, you know a lot about libs.

[nic34]

Using something that you declare morally and/or ideologically objectionable, because it's available to you... i would call that hypocrisy.

I don't understand why you wouldn't.


They're not afraid of the private insurance like they say, they're afraid it will work and make Obama look good....

[bladimz]

The idea is that no good comes when the government is heavily involved in health care.

That doesn't mean that we can't take advantage of it. I don't think the Government should be involved in Health Care either, but if the Government is going to be stupid enough to offer me free stuff, I'll take it. It only hurts everyone else, and the nation in the long run.See my post #12. Using what you hold to be immoral or objectionable is... hypocritical. Right or wrong?

[bladimz]

They're not afraid of the private insurance like they say, they're afraid it will work and make Obama look good....Pretty much.

[Chris]

Using something that you declare morally and/or ideologically objectionable, because it's available to you... i would call that hypocrisy.

I don't understand why you wouldn't.


But you use a government you don't deem perfect and would like to see change. By your logic then you're a hypocrite.

We all see what is and talk about what it ought to be.

[AmazonTania]

See my post #12. Using what you hold to be immoral or objectionable is... hypocritical. Right or wrong?

Only if you're telling others that they shouldn't use it.

[Codename Section]

I guess i wouldn't mind an explain an explanation... As long as you can tell me why a guy who is using a program created and funded by the government would tell us that the government shouldn't be involved in health care.

Medicaid is a method for lower income people to see a doctor. No one is forced to buy Medicaid, no one's premiums went up because other people had Medicaid. It was simply a safety net for poor people and children who had poor parents.

Obamacare is insurance credits for lower income people and a guarantee that insurance companies cannot refuse on pre-existing conditions alone. It is also a mandate and a tax. We either buy insurance now or receive a fine. With Obamacare everyone's premiums are affected so that insurance companies can still profit after having high risk patients buy in.

[Peter1469]

They're not afraid of the private insurance like they say, they're afraid it will work and make Obama look good....

Obamacare was not intended to work. It was intended to fail and pave the way for a single payer system. The lobbyists for the insurance industry were told the deal and that they could either help craft the bill under the above assumption, or they would be left out of the legislative process. So the insurance industry will milk as much profit as they can before the insurance system goes under (although there may be a separate private insurance industry along side the coming single payer system- I hope so).

[bladimz]

But you use a government you don't deem perfect and would like to see change. By your logic then you're a hypocrite.

We all see what is and talk about what it ought to be.That is your logic, not mine:

I don't deem life on earth perfect, yet i live. Here. On Earth. What are my (rational) options.

[bladimz]

Only if you're telling others that they shouldn't use it.By "it", are you referring to a program that has the gov't nose in it?

[Chris]

That is your logic, not mine:

I don't deem life on earth perfect, yet i live. Here. On Earth. What are my (rational) options.

Somehow I think you actually got my point there in that last bit. You're options are to speak up for changing life, government, etc at the risk of someone seeing you as a hypocrite.

[zelmo1234]

Nuts. I missed that explanation. But you didn't disappoint. See, i thought that medicaid was the ACA. So what would be right and fair would be to see our government rescind the ACA and totally eliminate medicaid. That would get our meddling gov't out of health care once and for all. Dammit.

Go back and read the OP article. The basic premise either eluded you or you just prefer to deny its validity.

I think that it is because Obamacare will lead to the insolvency of the Government much faster, and then the people will have neither. That would be my guess

[bladimz]

Medicaid is a method for lower income people to see a doctor. No one is forced to buy Medicaid, no one's premiums went up because other people had Medicaid. It was simply a safety net for poor people and children who had poor parents.

Obamacare is insurance credits for lower income people and a guarantee that insurance companies cannot refuse on pre-existing conditions alone. It is also a mandate and a tax. We either buy insurance now or receive a fine. With Obamacare everyone's premiums are affected so that insurance companies can still profit after having high risk patients buy in.Very nice.

We, all of us, fund Medicaid through our taxes. If we don't pay our taxes, we are... fined. There is, however, no reason to argue the asimilarities between the two government programs. If the government should not be involved in healthcare as this dude says, it should be all out. If it should be all out, that would eliminate medicaid, which would force him to buy private.

I don't understand why the concept of hypocrisy is so difficult to see. I'm saying the guy is evil, i'm just saying that i agree that there is hypocrisy afoot.

[AmazonTania]

By "it", are you referring to a program that has the gov't nose in it?

It can be whatever. As long as the behavior involves doing something while telling others not to participate.

[bladimz]

I think that it is because Obamacare will lead to the insolvency of the Government much faster, and then the people will have neither. That would be my guessThat's a fair response. It's your opinion, and maybe you're right. I happen to disagree. I believe that ObamaCare, in the short run, will be a difficult process, but will us well in the long run.

[bladimz]

It can be whatever. As long as the behavior involves doing something while telling others not to participate.
Me announcing Gov't involvement in healthcare=evil.
Me using Gov't-involved healthcare program=ok.

Why does this not make sense to me.

[shaarona]

http://goo.gl/BGW1Y2 (http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/18244-tea-partier-with-ten-children-on-medicaid-denounces-government-involvement-in-health-insurance)

Give the guy a break. He's only 41. Give him some time, and i'm sure he'll figure it out.

I'm sure he, like so many others, doesn't understand or want to understand how these government-funded programs work. But he should at least know that they are indeed government programs. Imagine him buying private insurance for his family.


He's 41 with ten children? Well... he must be a genius.

[bladimz]

Obamacare was not intended to work. It was intended to fail and pave the way for a single payer system. The lobbyists for the insurance industry were told the deal and that they could either help craft the bill under the above assumption, or they would be left out of the legislative process. So the insurance industry will milk as much profit as they can before the insurance system goes under (although there may be a separate private insurance industry along side the coming single payer system- I hope so).Now, see. What Peter says makes sense. I say this because i happen to agree with him, almost 100%.

But that's not what the OP is saying. We're talking about basic hypocrisy, whether this guy Collett recognizes it or not.

[bladimz]

He's 41 with ten children? Well... he must be a genius.
Einstein had 41 kids by the time he was ten. Now there was a true genius. None of them required insurance, because, well... the medical industry wasn't a scam at that point in time.

[AmazonTania]

Me announcing Gov't involvement in healthcare=evil.
Me using Gov't-involved healthcare program=ok.

Why does this not make sense to me.

It doesn't make sense to you because you think its hypocrisy. Doing an immoral act in itself is not hypocrisy. There are plenty of things humans do which we know are wrong.

[Mainecoons]

Einstein had 41 kids by the time he was ten. Now there was a true genius. None of them required insurance, because, well... the medical industry wasn't a scam at that point in time.

I'm alive because of that "scam" and so is my wife and I'll wager so are you.

None of us probably would have survived the U.K. National Health government medicine.

[Codename Section]

Me announcing Gov't involvement in healthcare=evil.
Me using Gov't-involved healthcare program=ok.

Why does this not make sense to me.
bladimz

who said it was "evil"?

My problem is corporatism and crony capitalism where the only people not reaping benefits from this are the middle class. The poor get what they could have gotten had they expanded Medicaid, the insurance companies get guaranteed clients thus making more profits, Sotormayer gets on the SCOTUS, Obama gets undoubtedly some sweet speaking engagements when this is over, and my sister gets an extra $300 a month through her insurance at work.

[Ravi]

http://goo.gl/BGW1Y2 (http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/18244-tea-partier-with-ten-children-on-medicaid-denounces-government-involvement-in-health-insurance)

Give the guy a break. He's only 41. Give him some time, and i'm sure he'll figure it out.

I'm sure he, like so many others, doesn't understand or want to understand how these government-funded programs work. But he should at least know that they are indeed government programs. Imagine him buying private insurance for his family.
Sometimes you just have to laugh. We have teapee symps here that are on food stamps.

[Chris]

http://goo.gl/BGW1Y2 (http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/18244-tea-partier-with-ten-children-on-medicaid-denounces-government-involvement-in-health-insurance)

Give the guy a break. He's only 41. Give him some time, and i'm sure he'll figure it out.

I'm sure he, like so many others, doesn't understand or want to understand how these government-funded programs work. But he should at least know that they are indeed government programs. Imagine him buying private insurance for his family.


Two points.

To reiterate what several have been arguing, there is no hypocrisy in participating in what you oppose, as even Greg Collett points out @ http://www.gregcollettforidaho.com/nbc-news-article:


Many people have come to my website after reading the national NBC News article entitled "Health care holdouts: Uninsured but resisting" written by Maggie Fox. Since the publication of that article, there have been many derivative articles that have sprung up on various websites. In the comments following these articles and on various forums, and in personal messages directed to me via email and phone, I have been labeled a hypocrite and subjected to an overwhelming level of hatred and vitriol.

I am responding to the article, not to explain myself to those who find it acceptable to disparage me, but rather for those who would like to learn the truth and reasoning behind my decisions.

...

The vast majority of the comments directed towards me try to paint me as a hypocrite for being a limited government advocate and having my kids on Medicaid. My political beliefs are certainly not popular, and in this case, there are many people in the liberty movement who want to take me to task. Again, we are dealing with a situation where people have been socialized into believing a lie.

Let me set the record straight. Yes, I participate in government programs of which I adamantly oppose. Many of them, actually. Am I a hypocrite for participating in programs that I oppose? If it was that simple, and if participation demonstrated support, then of course. But, my reason for participation in government programs often is not directly related to that issue in and of itself, and it certainly does not demonstrate support. For instance, I participate in government programs in order to stay out of the courts, or jail, so that I can take care of my family; other things I do to avoid fines or for other financial reasons; and some are simply because it is the only practical choice. With each situation, I have to evaluate the consequences of participating or not participating.

...

It seems that many people (including those in the liberty movement) like to attack those who use welfare programs rather than those who support the welfare programs. This is something that has been ingrained into our social structure. It is as though people want to have the program to say how well they take care of the poor, but woe to anyone who dares use the program! If you support the program in any way, is it not hypocritical to then belittle those who qualify for and use the program? Far too often there is a cry of scamming the system, when in reality the vast majority of those using the programs meet the requirements. In my case, 7 of my 8 adopted children receive Medicaid because they came from the foster care system. My other 3 children qualify based on the financial rules.

...


Second point, there's nothing to indicate he is a Tea Partier. Nothing. Follow the link above, no where does he claim to be a Tea Partier.


Blad, you were baited with BS and you swallowed it hook line and sinker.

[Mainecoons]

In order to assimilate the latest largely unfunded mandate from the Federal government, states would have to raise taxes to pay for the exploding cost of Medicare.

Some of them are saying no thanks. That is what a Republic is all about.

Get over it.