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Chris
10-17-2013, 09:03 PM
Some relief from petulant partisan politics....

A “New” American Center? Hardly (http://thefederalist.com/2013/10/15/new-american-center-hardly/)


...As if we needed any more proof about the uselessness of polls, Obama pollster Benenson Strategy Group and Romney pollster Neil Newhouse of Public Opinion Strategies dug deep and found out that a majority of us have congealed into centrists — just millions of rational and logical realists looking for solutions and otherwise minding our own business. ...

Or, as NBC News puts it:


Culturally, the center could be the butt of any joke in America, with lives that encompass Duck Dynasty and NPR, baby arugula and all-you-can eat Fridays. The center includes suburban mothers, rural working class men, rich city-dwelling business-people and relatively disaffected young people.

Welcome to America, people! And though this poll tells us absolutely nothing new about our own views, it tells us plenty about conventional thinking within Washington and the media.

It’s bothersome enough that we operate under the implicit notion that disagreement is unhealthy and destructive for the nation. But there are other problems with the “13 Things That Define the New American Center.” (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/new-american-center-1113) Let’s start with that fact that the “New” American Center has always been the American center. Yes, there has been some generational movement on social issues like gay marriage and marijuana legalization, but Washington’s policies have been a hodgepodge of half measures aimed at appeasing centrist values for a long time. If not, we’d have privatized Social Security and a single-payer health insurance system by now.

And though the “our nation isn’t as divided as we think” story is apparently a counter-intuitive novelty for those who consistently portray half the country as off-their-rocker musket-toting troglodytes, the reality is that most people only care about politics occasionally, and even then in the abstract. That’s great news. No doubt, you go through your entire day interacting with a diverse assortment of Americans — of many genders, races and ethnicities — without ever demanding to know what they think about capital gains tax rates or the debt ceiling.

Now, if we continue to make a national political issue out of everything imaginable — health care to education to how little we exercise — that may change. But we’re not there just yet.

In fact, if we’re to believe the results of Esquire/NBC News poll, we would not only have to concede that the nation isn’t as right-wing as the Tea Party, but that it is also far less liberal than the self-styled standard bearers of the rational center, the modern-day Democratic Party. ...

Dr. Who
10-17-2013, 09:13 PM
That's about right. People's political views are like a selection from an a la carte menu, but generally, in the aggregate, end up somewhere in the middle.
g

Chris
10-17-2013, 09:15 PM
That's about right. People's political views are like a selection from an a la carte menu, but generally, in the aggregate, end up somewhere in the middle.
g

Or there is no center. The author's next point was that: "I’ve encountered a so-called Tea Party activist who thinks a bailout of student loans is super idea and a progressive journalist who could only be described as a gun nut."

Chris
10-17-2013, 09:19 PM
Here's a somewhat liberal political scientist addressing this issue interviewed by Russ Roberts on EconTalk, Morris Fiorina on Polarization, Stability, and the State of the Electorate (http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/07/morris_fiorina.html):


Russ: So, one of the ways that you might interpret this instability is to conclude that the electorate is unstable. That people can't decide whether Republicans have better ideas, the Democrats, whether they want a President who is Republican, a President who is a Democrat. And that this national instability at the electoral level is reflecting the instability of the electorate itself. And you reject that argument. Why?

Guest: Well, no, I accept the argument in the sense that people are not convinced that either party has the answers. But my larger point is the electorate itself hasn't changed. That if you go back and you look at people's partisan inclinations, look at their ideological position-taking, look at their positions on the issues, you would have a hard time differentiating the 1970s from the present era. If I didn't label the tables you'd have a hard time saying which era that comes from. But what's happening is the choices are different. And in particular they are not constant. Neither party has the answers. Just look at these last several elections. The Bush Republicans were totally rejected in 2006 and 2008 Congressional Republicans. Then we have the great shellacking of 2010 when the Congressional Democrats were rejected. So it's not that people are changing their minds, their positions, their preferences. They are looking at the alternatives they are offered and the performance of the parties and they are simply reacting that no one has convinced them, no one has satisfied them yet.

Dr. Who
10-17-2013, 09:51 PM
Here's a somewhat liberal political scientist addressing this issue interviewed by Russ Roberts on EconTalk, Morris Fiorina on Polarization, Stability, and the State of the Electorate (http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/07/morris_fiorina.html):

My point is that few people are completely right or left and when you put it all together, you end up with something that is rather centrist. The concept of centrist changes over time and it moves right and left as well depending on how irritated people become with government. When you really get down to the nitty gritty, people in general are not so different. They don't want their pocket's picked for government incentives that are not working. Nobody in their right mind wants to shell out dollars for failed policies. Most arguments are over things that are not working and few arguments are over how to create something that works. Government unfortunately seems to be of the same model as Microsoft programs. Keep everything from day 1 and continue to heap things on top until you have something that sucks up all of your resources.

Chris
10-17-2013, 10:31 PM
My point is that few people are completely right or left and when you put it all together, you end up with something that is rather centrist. The concept of centrist changes over time and it moves right and left as well depending on how irritated people become with government. When you really get down to the nitty gritty, people in general are not so different. They don't want their pocket's picked for government incentives that are not working. Nobody in their right mind wants to shell out dollars for failed policies. Most arguments are over things that are not working and few arguments are over how to create something that works. Government unfortunately seems to be of the same model as Microsoft programs. Keep everything from day 1 and continue to heap things on top until you have something that sucks up all of your resources.


I guess, on your model, I would argue that the center keeps moving left, or on a two-dimensional scale, certainly away from libertarianism and toward statism.

Green Arrow
10-18-2013, 08:09 AM
A third of the country is Republican/Democrat and the other two thirds are independents.

Keep in mind, less than half of the country's eligible voters actually vote, so elections really aren't a great test of the nation's political make-up.

Chris
10-18-2013, 08:17 AM
A third of the country is Republican/Democrat and the other two thirds are independents.

Keep in mind, less than half of the country's eligible voters actually vote, so elections really aren't a great test of the nation's political make-up.



All 3 sources, "13 Things That Define the New American Center," "A “New” American Center? Hardly" and "Morris Fiorina on Polarization, Stability, and the State of the Electorate" agree on the first. Sort of deflates the partisan bubble a bit. Not that I didn't think they were just blowhards to begin with.


As to the second point, other than people are probably generally apathetic unless their lives are touched by crisis, the third source tries to explain: "So it's not that people are changing their minds, their positions, their preferences. They are looking at the alternatives they are offered and the performance of the parties and they are simply reacting that no one has convinced them, no one has satisfied them yet." Fiorina actually goes so far as the credit Obama's win to a large number of Republicans simply not liking liberal Romney enough to vote.

Green Arrow
10-18-2013, 08:30 AM
All 3 sources, "13 Things That Define the New American Center," "A “New” American Center? Hardly" and "Morris Fiorina on Polarization, Stability, and the State of the Electorate" agree on the first. Sort of deflates the partisan bubble a bit. Not that I didn't think they were just blowhards to begin with.


As to the second point, other than people are probably generally apathetic unless their lives are touched by crisis, the third source tries to explain: "So it's not that people are changing their minds, their positions, their preferences. They are looking at the alternatives they are offered and the performance of the parties and they are simply reacting that no one has convinced them, no one has satisfied them yet." Fiorina actually goes so far as the credit Obama's win to a large number of Republicans simply not liking liberal Romney enough to vote.

Could be true, certainly.

Chris
10-18-2013, 08:35 AM
Could be true, certainly.

Could being the keyword. And I should have said on the last bit credits in part..

jillian
10-18-2013, 08:42 AM
Could be true, certainly.

could also be pure speculation.

that said, the country has always been center left when asked about specific issues... which is why extremists like we've seen shut down the government these past two weeks ultimately fail.

Chris
10-18-2013, 08:53 AM
could also be pure speculation.

that said, the country has always been center left when asked about specific issues... which is why extremists like we've seen shut down the government these past two weeks ultimately fail.



And I suppose you have some evidence to support that?